First-Gen Leader, First-Gen Mission: Building Organizations That Meet People Where They Are

[0:00]  Um, will I be able to get the services I need when I am, you know, not always at the college at the time that offices are open? Even if there's not the line, how do I get my question answered? And sometimes that can be a challenge for students, especially for adult students who may need that question answered late at night.

So, I've been really intentional about trying to engage my staff in how to make things better for our students rather than having all the ideas myself. At the end of what seemed like a very long degree program for him, according to him, right? Like he's like, "This has taken forever." It didn't, but it seemed like it did because he was doing it, you know, as a part-time student. And I watched him walk across the stage, and his kids were there. They had a little poster, and they were cheering, "My daddy."

[0:47]  And it just, I saw the pride in his heart. And he later said, "Actually, I did need this. It was also for me."

Welcome back to another episode here on the Hard Hustle podcast with Ms. Megan. Megan, I want to start off. You grew up as a single mother household where money was tight. But college was non-negotiable. What did your mom see that made her hold that line, and how did that really shape who you became?

Yeah, it's a great question. You know, as you mentioned, my mother was a single mother. She didn't go to college herself, and she regretted that, right? And so, as I was growing up, it was always something that was talked about from the time I was very young all the way through high school. It was just something that was known to me to be a thing, right? Like this will happen.

And she really believed in the value of education and saw the benefits of it. And it can be hard when you're younger to really understand what that looks like. But it has absolutely shaped who I've become because I did go on to get a bachelor's degree. I got a master's degree after that. I got a doctor of education after that.

So, somewhere along the way, I realized, you know what? She was right. Um, hard to say about your parents sometimes, right? But she was right, and education is really meaningful. It changes your life. It can change the lives of the next generation. Changes the way society runs and operates.

And so, it really has shaped who I've become and how I've gotten to where I am in my career as well.

Talking about right there, where you come to your career. Where are you today? What's your title?

I'm the vice president of enrollment management, marketing, and student retention at the University of Southern Maine. And I'm very proud to hold that title, and I'm very proud of this institution. It's a public institution in Southern Maine. Um, we have two campuses in the beautiful vacation land of Maine.

Um, you know, but I wasn't always here. I started as an admissions counselor a very long time ago, working with adult students who are coming back to change their lives with education, and I watched those folks transform themselves.

And similar, I see the same thing here, right? I go to commencement every year to make sure I watch those students walk across the stage and feel that sense of pride, and it really is what keeps me going all year. I love it.

And what did your mom think about it all? Like, to just see you at this level in education and pouring back into others just like how she was pouring into you.

Yeah, it's a great question. My mother actually passed away before I completed my doctorate, but she knew that I had a master's degree and a bachelor's degree, and she was so proud. You know, she took my grandmother to my undergraduate commencement, and it was one of those larger schools, right? Where you graduate in a stadium, and so there was a lot of walking and a lot of people, and she was just so proud to see me be able to do that when she knew how important it was.

[3:51]  I love that. And I love that you continue that legacy of just pouring into others because some people just experience the same thing.

I was actually at a high school recently. I think I told you that I was the president of the foundation of the high school. So, we're just doing like a community event, and a parent comes to me and she's like, "Hey, like my daughter's graduating, but we're struggling, you know? Like I just appreciate what you guys have done for her, and right now I'm living at a hotel."

I just taking some kid, but it's like you just don't know people are really going through, right? But here's this girl, she's graduating, you don't know what her story is, but she's living at a hotel. And everyone is going through something.

And I can imagine, Megan, you meet them where they're at. So, I appreciate what you do there.

Um, when you talked a little earlier, you've also described that the first job after college as the moment you felt real independence for the first time. What shifted you in that moment?

Yeah, you know, it's very different to make your own money, even though it feels like so much, right? Because you have never made your own money before. And so, all of a sudden, it feels like a lot of money, and it's not. Um, it's your first job out of college, and you think you know all the things, and you don't.

And you're making all the money, and you're not. Um, but it's in that moment that you can afford your own apartment, afford your own car payment. And those things give you a sense of independence that you don't otherwise have when you need to rely on other people for those things.

Um, and I think it was in that moment that I realized why my mother was right, right? Like education doesn't just change your thinking, although it does. Um, it also changes your life circumstances and your ability to make your own decisions and to be sure that you're in good relationships and do what you need to do for yourself without having to worry about other people.

Do you feel like, I mean, this is probably some time, but what were your challenges going into college? Like I think when we look at our youth now, there's always an excuse of why, right? Or maybe there's a stigma. There's this narrative that people... What are some of the challenges that you've come across but realized that they were just a roadblock that you were able to overcome?

Yeah, that's a good question. As a first-generation college student, I think I went into college knowing that I wanted to be an archaeologist. And then getting there and realizing that's not a thing that is going to be realistic, right? And realizing that pretty early on and then not having any idea what I did want to do or how to get there.

So, I switched majors a couple of times, and each time I was like, "No, this is definitely the thing." And then ultimately I was like, "I don't know if this is the thing."

And so, I think part of being a first-generation college student is that you don't always have that guidance or that...

Yeah, I guess guidance for like, "Listen, this is going to turn into this career or this is a liberal arts education and this is the benefits of a liberal arts education and what that's going to give to you."

And to be able to sort of make that decision and find your path. So, eventually I found my way to political science, which as you know, I don't work in that in the political field, but as you know, a liberal arts student, I had those experiences of critical thinking and learning how to think and how to research and how to understand data.

And you know, from that, that really actually led me onto this path. So, I'm grateful for my criminal justice faculty and my political science faculty and all those liberal arts folks that gave me this background.

I feel like all you guys that are in kind of in this space of admissions and enrollment, you guys got here almost by accident. Like, it was just you were doing something, you fell in love with whatever the mission was at the school, and you was like, "How do I get involved?"

And you know, you mentioned that you had the ability to do private and public. What are the differences?

Oh, big differences. Um, and both are meaningful and both change lives. So, I'll start I guess there with the similarities. The differences, though, is that public education is meant to be accessible, and it's meant to meet people where they are.

And that's such an important part of education and understanding that the working adult may not be able to do as a traditional student, right? And attend class five days a week and live in a residence hall, right? Like folks need to work, they need to be able to have an online presence, they need to be able to come to class in the evening, they need to be able to do other activities during the week besides just their education.

And so, not again that all privates can't make that happen, but we see this more often in a public setting. Um, we see it to be more affordable, to have a greater return on investment, and to be very student-focused. And those things have been meaningful to me in my career, too.

I've attended both public and private, and I've worked in both public and private. Um, but the mission of the public really speaks to me, and it's where I feel like I fit to be able to make the greatest difference for students.

I love that. And what you're doing is amazing because you also talked to me and told me that you guys are actually growing in enrollment right now, which is kind of against the national trend. What’s driving that, and is it intentional? Is it something that you guys are doing unique?

Uh, well, it's very intentional, I'll say that. Um, it's also, you know, a lot of hard work. I have a really amazing staff here who bring in more new and transfer students every year than they did the past year. And you're right, that is not always common.

Um, and I think that's a lot of dedication to really taking care of people, right? And of understanding who does the work and listening to those folks when they say, "You know, we could be doing this better in the following ways."

Um, so, I've been really intentional about trying to engage my staff in how to make things better for our students rather than having all the ideas myself, right?

Um, but other than that, we're a very data-driven institution. We're a very collaborative institution. So, we take suggestions, ideas, complaints even, and compliments from across the institution. We really internalize that to make sure that we're doing the right things for our students and for our prospective students.

So, it's really been a group effort here, um, led by our president who is very collaborative, very intentional, very focused, very intelligent, um, and an excellent leader. So, she has really helped us all to have those same qualities and to pass them on to our staff. And it really has made a difference.

I love that. And when you talk about the student, who is the UMaine student that most people probably don't picture when they think of a flagship university like yourselves? And why should they?

Yeah, well, our students are everyone. So, that's a little bit part of the challenge and part of the beauty, right? So, we have a lot of traditional first-year students who come to us right out of high school. They live in the residence halls. They stay here for four to six years, and they have a very traditional experience.

Um, but we do also have a lot of those working adult students who come to us to take one class a semester, who take some online classes. Actually, even our traditional students mix the in-person and online now as well.

Um, we also have an interesting group of students who look traditional. They present as traditional, but they're actually non-traditional. So, they may come right out of high school. They may live here or not, but also they have a full-time job. They're taking care of families at home.

And so, they sound like they feel like a traditional student, but you know that in the background they're doing all of those other things. And so, how do you meet those folks where they are and provide them the services that they need to be successful?

So, we also have graduate students. We have transfer students. Um, we have early college students, which are students that are still in high school taking classes with us.

So, there's really no USM student, right? We're they're all ours.

[11:40]  Yeah, living everything. It's a melting pot, it seems like.

Absolutely.

Um, which is cool. And in that melting pot, I can imagine that you have a lot of those that, um, or maybe not yet, but those that want to do trades, content creation, or just entrepreneurs who you just mentioned doing other things, which are kind of really legitimate paths, and students kind of know it.

How does UMaine make that case for a degree without dismissing those alternatives?

Yeah, I think we do that really intentionally, right? So, there are a lot of paths that students can take, and we're here if that student's path works for what USM offers.

And so, we do have a lot of wonderful articulation agreements with our community colleges, helping students who complete or who are yet to complete an associate's degree transfer those credits over to USM. We also have credits for prior learning here, um, where students can receive academic credit for work that they've done, for certifications they've received outside of a traditional academic environment.

Um, so, you know, understanding and recognizing those things I think have been important for our students and for our prospective student base.

Um, but we also have a career and internship hub where we often put students into paid and non-paid internships to help them better understand what careers they may like. And sometimes that works really well, right? They find something that they love. And sometimes they come back and they say, "I didn't love it."

And you know what? That also is a really important learning experience in your college career. So, I think helping to make students feel welcome here and find their path here has been a really important part of what we do.

Do you feel that ever like some of these students, or even those that leave, go become parents, get a job, come back, that they want to come back, but they feel there's something blocking them?

Do you feel like you come across that a lot? And what is it? Is it a communication? Is it a resource thing? Like, where are those individuals that want to come back but feel a little too hard at the moment?

Yeah, a lot of them do, right? And this is actually where I started my career is with the working adult. And I've continued working with that population of students throughout.

And it's a variety of things, right? Sometimes it's value or return on investment. Sometimes it's literally the money to pay tuition. Um, and sometimes it's wondering if they're going to fit in, right?

Um, when you're a traditional college student and you sit in a class with an older student, that was less common when I was in college, I would say. And now, you know, I'll use your word melting pot, because that is really how it is here at USM.

We have adult students next to our traditionally aged students regularly in our classrooms. And so, but people don't always know, right? Like, am I going to fit in? Is it going to feel okay for me? Um, can I work it into my schedule? Can I pay for it?

Um, will I be able to get the services I need when I am, you know, not always at the college at the time that offices are open? So, we have a lot of those barriers that we help students work through as well.

You mentioned now a little you're kind of... you talked about virtual, and then you mentioned how a lot more kids are doing virtual. Is that because just the age you're in that people want to do more virtual at home stuff?

Like, are we seeing a decline of people showing up on campus?

That's actually a very good question. It's a great question. Um, and it varies, right? So, we have all the people and all the kinds of students. We do still have traditional students who live in our residence halls, and they don't take online courses.

But, about 60% of our undergraduate students will take at least one online course in a semester. And the reason is because everyone is busy, right? Even our students who are traditional still may have a part-time job, they may work on campus, they may be off at the internship from our career and employment hub.

And so they need that flexibility. Some of these students also, you know, depending on their age, were students in high school or earlier during the pandemic, and so they became used to this method of learning, right?

And so during the pandemic when we all switched online really quickly, there was a lot of concern about is this going to work? And I don't know if we can say if it did or if it didn't, but it did make students more comfortable in that environment.

And so we do see students asking for online classes more than we have in the past.

I'll tell you what, probably most of my classes were online when I did go to college, and this was early like 2008, 2009.

And it was that. It was that I was working 50 hours a week, so it just made it easier, but I also did... I don't know.

They're both great, really, to be quite frank. I feel like maybe certain classes you shouldn't take online just because they become a little bit more challenging.

Mhm. Um, and I, you know, I have my own opinions on teachers and all that, but it is cool. It is just cool to see that we are moving in that direction.

I think when we... the pandemic has allowed everyone to do so much virtual and seeing how easy and accessible it really is. I mean, we have phones now. We have... everyone has a computer for the most part. Internet's kind of all over the place.

That's actually pretty cool.

When it comes to, um, I think one of the biggest issues that I was struggling with as I was getting into classes was always going into the financial aid office or going into, you know, I don't even know what they were called, but where you had to wait in line for information.

Has that gotten better? Because I think sometimes those things are also roadblocks, right? People already have... they're anxious. They want to get answers, but now they have to wait an hour and a half in line.

Like, how are we kind of bringing that to a small pod and saying, "Hey, communications is 24/7?"

Yeah, it needs to be 24/7, and it isn't always 24/7, right? So, um, our offices have real humans that do the thing, and we try not to make them work 24/7 if we can help it.

Um, and as a result, right, we do have offices that are open during certain hours. That's a real challenge for some of our students.

Um, I will say that the advent of, you know, email and really robust websites like we have and an internal portal for our students like we have has really helped disseminate information in a different way.

So, we here at USM do not see hour-long waits to register because that's what I remember, right? Like waiting in line with your bubble sheet to register.

Now I'm aging myself. Um, and we don't have that anymore because we register them online. But the point is still the same, right? Even if there's not the line, it's that how do I get my question answered?

And sometimes that can be a challenge for students, especially for adult students who may need that question answered late at night.

If the Hard & Hustle podcast has ever sparked any idea or made you dig differently, do us a favor. Make sure to share this, post it on LinkedIn, or even text that nonprofit friend that you just have.

Whatever works, this is what keeps the conversation going and allows us to just grow this community together. Seriously, we appreciate you.

Yeah, no, for sure, because as you mentioned, meeting someone where they're at. If I'm working a long job, I would love to get an answer at 11:00, but then I have to wait till the next day, right?

Um, and who knows? I'm sleeping, trying to get all...

So, yes, I love that we're just working on how do we meet people at where they're at, especially with a melting pot, as you mentioned, at UMaine.

Um, you mentioned how you just oversee both the front door and the full journey.

Yeah. When those two priorities pull against each other, how do you even decide where to focus?

Yeah, it's a good question. Um, our president is really firm on her vision of student success and being student-focused every day. And so that really is the guiding factor for us.

Um, as an access institution, we admit students that are qualified to come here. So we're not wait-listing students even though we know they could be successful here.

We're admitting them if they're qualified. But um, it's then our responsibility to make sure that they have the resources and the skills that they need to be successful here.

And so that is that whole, you know, enrollment journey and the retention aspect of my work. Um, and that really is a big picture.

Um, it's not done by me. It's not done by any individual. It's working with our faculty, working with our deans and our provost, our learning commons, our tutors, our career hub, um, making sure that we're getting our arms around students in every possible way so that we can give them what they need to be successful here.

And that does vary, right? We do also have an adult student success center that’s wonderfully engaging for our adult students. Depends on the need of the student.

Um, but there's always someone looking out for students as individuals, not as a number, and getting our arms around them in what they need. And so that's really the important part of my work.

Um, I've got a great admissions team. They can do admissions all day long. It's how do we then make sure that they're taken care of once they're here.

And so connecting all those dots has been a really amazing success story, I think, here.

Do you... was there a moment that, I mean, probably tons of them as long as you've been doing this, but um, is there a moment where you've seen a student walk across the stage, someone you know who almost didn't make it?

Like, how did that feel, you know? I can imagine these are where your cup is really being filled when you see those moments, but do you recall that one story?

I do. Yes, I absolutely do. Um, it was a little bit earlier in my career when I worked more directly with students than I often get to now, unfortunately.

Uh, but I remember distinctly a working father who was a single father, and he said, "I don't really need this. Like I just... I don't care. Like I got a good job. I'm good. I need to do this for my children. I need them to see that this is important."

I was like, "Okay, we'll get you there." And um, it was a struggle, right? Because it's still time away from children. It's still child care. It's still the expense and the cost of everything that goes into a college education.

Um, but at the end of what seemed like a very long degree program for him, according to him, right? Like he's like, "This is taking forever." It didn't, but it seemed like it did because he was doing it as a part-time student.

Um, and I watched him walk across the stage, and his kids were there. He had a little poster, and they were cheering, "My daddy."

Um, and it just, I saw the pride in his heart. And he later said like, "Actually, I did need this. It was also for me."

Yeah. And um, you know, that...

You know, I always say what we do is not for us, right? Like we're adults now, and it's how do we continue to pour into the next generation? You've been doing it obviously for so many years.

And when you see that, you know, me being a father, I got like two classes. I am that guy that should go and finish my two classes.

You have to.

But um, yes, I need to do some online classes, too. Um, but I do it for that reason, too. Because I've been very successful out of it.

I mean, I was already running my first restaurant at 19 years old. So, but it was like, I want to show my kids that there's options, you know?

Because if they don't see it, they don't believe it. Um, and that's just how a lot of us are, you know? If you didn't see your family do it, you just don't think it's achievable.

Until you meet that person that says, "No, you really can."

So, I... Megan, just kudos to you for just this is what your passion and purpose looks like, right?

Absolutely.

Making sure that other people can see the other side that you've also seen.

Um, what does the future of public education look like if we get it right? What does that world feel like?

I feel like we're in a space now where pretty sure you hear it, but I'm in Central Florida where we just closed down, I think, 11 schools, um, high schools.

Like, is it affecting you guys? Is it something that you guys even thinking of?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, in higher education we've been talking about a demographic cliff for a very long time, right? A fewer high school students are coming our way. There were simply fewer babies born. It is what it is.

Uh, and how do you prepare for that? But here in Maine we're also seeing students graduating from high school and choosing not to come to college at all in some cases.

And that number seems to be growing every year. And so, helping folks to see the value and the return on investment of higher education is a really important part of what we do.

And that's why I also oversee the marketing and strategic communications teams here because telling that great story of all the amazing things that we do in the lives that we change is really necessary and important for the future of higher education.

I think if we do it right, to answer your question, I think that we're the ones that are producing the next generation of thinkers, of workers, um, of teachers.

Um, we have a wonderful teaching program here. We have wonderful health care programs here, right? And we need all these folks in Southern Maine and across New England and across the nation.

And so we are the ones that are preparing those folks. And it's a really important responsibility for society.

And so I think if we do it right, we're the workforce generators. We're the thinkers.

You are the second person that I spoke to from the higher education that told me this this week. And you don't see in that direction.

Like when you really think about coming to college, preparing you to really go out in the work field, right?

Like you can mess up here, you can ask the questions, you can really learn. Um, and you could figure out, hey, if something happened to you, maybe this is not my thing.

Well, let me go over here or speak to someone that could really guide me on maybe what's my thing.

I mean, I don't know that sometimes that story is being told, but when I hear it, I'm like, oh, it makes sense.

Or maybe I'm just not that young kid that wasn't, you know, now I'm paying attention more.

Um, you know, than back then because as you mentioned, we just think we know it all.

Um, but I love how you kind of put that into play for a lot of our leaders, a lot of those people in education.

It's like, hey, we are building up the next generation that are going to be taking care of us because you're only getting older.

You want to make sure that, yes, you know, put it that way.

Yeah, yeah.

We got to make sure that they're good.

If you can actually reframe the national conversation about public higher education right now, what's the one thing you would want people to understand that they're probably getting wrong?

Yeah, I think sometimes we see these reports about, you know, the tuition's gone up this much and people are building this cool facility and that cool facility and do we need these things?

Um, and it's not that those things aren't also being built or those tuitions aren't also being charged, but those of us that do this work are in it to help people, right?

And to help students. And not to teach people what to think, but how to think, how to learn, how to grow, how to be ready for jobs that we don't know about yet, right?

They don't exist, and 20 years from now they'll exist, and the foundations that they learned in higher education will help them be successful in those jobs.

Um, will help our society move forward with those jobs in the first place.

And I think sometimes we get hung up in the price tag or the dormitories or the food or the whatever we were... the national conversation can shift to without really stopping to think about the importance of this to our national society.

And to teaching students how to critically think, how to engage with each other, how to have meaningful conversation, how to disagree respectfully, how to research so that you can disagree in a way that makes sense, right?

And these are really important skills that sometimes get lost in those conversations.

I also think there's just a lot going on in the college or university.

You know what I mean? Like...

You are right. I could probably learn every single thing, and there's probably so many things on a campus, and it's like we just... we just... I don't know... communicate better.

I don't know what it looks like, but you are right. It's like a campus that gives you anything and everything.

And that tuition gets you everything.

Yeah. Right?

Yep. But are we really utilizing the tools that are in front of us, or are we just going to class and expecting that to be it?

That's right.

But I mean, look what's happened to you, Megan. You were... I'm pretty sure the reason you got there is because you were knocking on doors, you were trying to figure out what was going on, you were talking.

Closed mouths don't get fed, you know, type thing.

So a lot of people, if you're asking where do I get help, where do I get all these resources, it's asking, right?

And where can they go to get this information, Megan? Is it a website, social, email? Where can people find out more information, especially I think there's a lot of money being left on the table when we talk about scholarships and grants.

Where can people find that information as well? Is that something they can go to your website?

Yes, our website is quite robust, and our marketing team does a great job on it. So there's a lot of those resources there.

Um, but we also have really, really friendly staff, and so I think part of the digital age, right, is that people go to a website or they look for something and they see it or they don't see it, and then they go away.

But I would always encourage students to have a conversation with a human as well because individual circumstances can lead to really personalized recommendations for where you might find an outside scholarship you didn't know existed or you might have access to a paid internship you didn't know you had through the career hub.

You know, so there's those types of things. Same for, um, you know, student accounts, right? You have a bill and you're like, "I'm just not sure how I'm going to pay this."

Give us a call. We'll help you. Um, those are some of the things that our staff is really, really good at here is working with our students.

And so there's a ton of information on the website, yes. Um, and our staff are really great at helping with personalized recommendations, too.

I love that. As we start wrapping it up, what does the...

Actually, better question. What would you tell a first-generation student sitting on the fence right now wondering if college is ready for them?

I think that's a better question because you've kind of experienced that.

Yeah, I would say education is something no one can ever take away from you. Right? It's not... the degree is one thing, um, but the knowledge is something that once you have it, it's yours, right?

And there's something freeing about that. There's something that an independence that comes with those thoughts and with that ability to reason through a problem and to figure it out and to be able to move forward in a career or a life.

And um, once you have that, it doesn't get taken away from you. And so that's such a meaningful element of my own journey that, especially as a first-generation college student, that I would hope to be able to impart that on others, right?

That like this is something you're going to do for you. You're going to invest in you, and then it's yours forever.

Yeah. Okay. All right, that's a good one.

And I'll leave you with this hot seat question. What is one assumption about people you serve that you had completely unlearned? And what change in your work when you actually let it go?

Yeah, that's a great question. Uh, you know, I think earlier in my career, I believed that everyone needed education. And that was my assumption.

And over time I've realized everyone doesn't. Uh, as much as I want them to have it, they don't all need it, right?

And that father that I already spoke about was one of my first indications that, you know, people can be successful, of course, without higher education. They can be more successful, though, with it.

And so, some of the folks that don't need education still want it. And those are two very different groups of people that we need to serve, right?

People who feel that they're here because they need to be here, um, and they feel desperate to stay here, and we need to get our arms around them to help them be successful.

And then there's people that want to be here because they just think that this is for them. And we need to meet those people in a different place.

And so, understanding that we really do have different motivations from our students, uh, I think has been really meaningful in helping me to both recruit and retain.

Wow. Listen, you're too good, Megan. You answered every single question like too easy. You've been doing this for too long.

What is next for Megan? How long does Megan have doing this? Is she looking for a different title one day? Does she want to become the president?

I would like to hold people accountable, so...

Yeah. You know, what is the next goal for Megan?

I sometimes talk about how long it is until I retire, and it's just so long that I've given up counting. Um, and you know, I really love my work.

I love coming into the office every day, and I just really love what I do. So, I'm in this for the long haul.

Um, like I said, I really believe in public higher education. I really love working at USM. I really love working for President Edmonson.

Uh, so, I'm here for the long haul. Uh, I guess I would say, next steps, never say never, but, um, being a president is a lifestyle, right?

It's a lifestyle, and, um, I don't know if I'm quite ready for the lifestyle, but, um, but never say never.

You're all right. You just told me about your young one. Do you have the time?

Okay. Okay. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah, I do have a young one, and, you know, I see presidents at fundraising events along into the evening, and at performances, and interacting with our students, and that's so meaningful and it's so necessary.

And I also need to interact with my own child at some point in time, right? So, I would say not yet, but never say never.

What are those messages for you up... sorry, and the last question, what are the messages you're telling your child about school nowadays, and is she listening?

He does listen, yeah. And he... sort of interesting anecdote, he knows that I have a staff and he also knows that my president is a woman.

And so at some point in time he came to believe that all bosses are women, and so he'll say things, right? Like, "Oh, it's her boss," and that's... and that's so... it's a woman, right?

Like the woman is the boss. And so it's a really cute juxtaposition from what I was used to growing up where it was often assumed that a supervisor or a boss or a leader was a man.

And so it's been really sweet to see that change. But other than that, he knows what college is for him.

He thinks he might also play professional hockey, but aside from that, his plan B is to go to college, so I think I'm rubbing off.

Well, Megan, we definitely thank you so much for your time here today, and if you guys want to know more and try to find more information about the school, it is main.edu, is that correct?

I was trying to pull it up here.

Yes, we're the University of Southern Maine, yes.

Got it. And social, you guys on socials?

We are on socials, yes. We have wonderful Instagram and Facebook accounts, so just we're at University of Southern Maine. Give us a search.

I love it. Well, guys, to see and hear more conversations like this, make sure that you guys do like, subscribe, and comment.

Megan, it has been a pleasure. Thank you so much for your time. We'll catch you guys in the next one. Latest.