From Failing College to Becoming VP: How Jeremy Taylor Is Opening Doors for First-Gen Students

[0:00]  You can't have a blanket message for everybody, right? You've got to be able to go in and make students feel if we're a small school and we're selling that we are going to give you a personalized experience. That has to start from the very first recruitment, right? You have to be personable. You have to get to know the students, and you have to meet them where they are. Again, think use data to find where you can get stuff. So yeah, whereas we're a test-optional school, I said, why do we need to do that? Instead, why don't we go back and look at the data of where are we getting students? Where are students applying from but not actually coming? Where are the pockets of growth that we can go to? And so I was able to kind of approach it from a different angle. And again, I think probably some of the most dangerous words in the English language are, "That's the way we've always done it."

[0:47]  Welcome back to another episode here on the Heart and Hustle Podcast with the homie Jeremy Taylor. I appreciate you, man. Like, this is going to be good. I remember just having the first call with you, and you were a blast, man. I really want to talk about how you also went to Texas A&M. We got to start here, by the way. You went to A&M with dreams of being a football coach, got caught up in the social scene, and then failed out, man. Including failing Black history as the only Black student in the class. What did your professors say, man? How did you feel at that moment after all this?

[1:37]  Well, you know, again, to give some context to it, like I still use this today when I talk to students. I say, you know, if you have a bad GPA, you better have some good memories. I have really good memories in college. But yeah, I mean, it was a turning point. I had a great time, great social opportunity, but yeah, like it's ironic. I was the only Black student in this Black African-American history class to 1877. And I just remember walking in at the end of the semester, you know, being a young brother, walked in and was like, "Hey, Dr. Stark, you know, can you help me out?" And I just remember the look on his face. He turned to me and he said, "Man, you just set the movement back." And I was like, "Wow." And so yeah, I mean, I took that bad grade along with several others, and yeah, I mean, I was again, I had great opportunity, but that just really stuck with me and kind of has become like a guiding star. So yeah, no doubt.

[2:37]  I was going to say, man, you know I love how as young individuals, we are not that person, right? We go through those moments in life that we learn from. I can imagine you learned from it because then you went on and you had to work a couple of years, but you're on your way back, man. Bachelor's degree, master's, and a PhD all in history.

[2:56]  Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean again, and it's interesting because when I chose history, like again, I was a first-generation college kid. Didn't know what I was doing. I remember showing up for orientation. They asked me what I want to major in, and I said I want to be a football coach, right? And so I majored in history just because that was what all my coaches were. So yeah, if you would have told me, you know, 30, 40 years ago that I was going to be a vice president of college, I said there's no way, right? But again, it's not about going to school; it's about getting the opportunity and taking advantage of the opportunity you have. And often, young people don't realize when you're in the middle of that that you have that opportunity. You don't realize this is your chance. And so, I was just very fortunate that I got a couple of second chances and was able to go back and again change my family tree, you know, like again, first-generation college kid. If you would have told me I was going to get a PhD, I'd have said there's no way. So yeah.

[3:58]  Do you think the athlete in you just made you competitive to say, "Wait, I failed, but I'm about to be successful here?" Cuz I mean, who fails and then goes back and says, "I'm going to the top of the line." And then you don't even like to be called doctor, you know?

[4:18]  Yeah. I mean, I think again being an athlete growing up definitely involved. And again, don't get me wrong, I wasn't no great athlete. I knew I wasn't going to play college ball, right? I knew that wasn't going to happen, but I liked it, right? And so I think what it was is again having to see that real-world experience, and when you, you know, hindsight's 20/20, but it's really quick when you get out and you actually have to work for a little bit and you realize, man, this is my life. This is what it's going to be like. And you know, I did a couple of different jobs, and yeah, I think realizing that once that opportunity was finally gone and I wasn't going to be able to sweet talk my way out of it or let somebody get by, it just changes your perspective. And then that idea of, you know, you working your way up and just getting things done, that definitely motivated me. So I think yeah, my athletic background a little bit did, but again, it wasn't coming from a perspective of being a Jordan or something like that. No.

[5:25]  Okay. Okay. So you do all that and then you're back at the university. Must love it, man. Must have been the scene for you. Um, and then you get into a role that you had no idea about. Take us down that lane, man. Like how do you get into university admissions? Did you even know this existed?

[5:44]  Yeah. So again, my goal in life was to be a high school football coach. Once I had the opportunity to do that, again, I'm married. I love my wife. She's the love of my life. She stuck through me. We've been college sweethearts. She stuck through me and was trying to motivate me to go to class. So, she still laughs about me failing certain classes, right? Well, as a high school football coach in Texas, that's a tough schedule. And so I knew that wasn't going to necessarily be compatible with the type of husband I wanted to be. And so, yeah, I just had some happenstance and opportunity. So I decided I was just going to go back, get a master's degree, and just maybe teach junior college because that was just something I was going to do. Then I wouldn't have to worry about football. Um, and just one day I happened to be walking through a graduate school college fair. We got out of class early, walked through a graduate school college fair, and I started talking to a recruiter from the University of Arkansas, and she was telling me about a PhD program and how they could help pay for it and blah blah blah. And I was like, "What?" So yeah, that I just ended up going on and getting a pretty good opportunity to go get a PhD. And then after that, after I got my PhD at the University of Arkansas, I ended up just becoming a history professor here at Defiance College. You know the job market is tough for historians oftentimes, and so I was blessed and had the opportunity to have a couple of different offers, and Defiance College, a small college in northwest Ohio, just gave me the opportunity to come in and kind of do some things. So yeah, I was a professor for several years, just being a professor, then I went on to become a department chair.

[7:20]  And again, full circle, when we had a late hire of a football coach one year back, I think it was 2018, he asked me if I'd come out and coach D-line for him just as kind of like a fill-in because he got hired at the end of July and football camp started in August. So I went and begged my wife, said, "Hey, can I try it again?" And she was like, "Yeah, go ahead, you're good." And so I did that for a couple of years, and as part of that, I helped to recruit. Right? So I'm a faculty member, but I'm also coaching football and calling kids and watching film. And fast forward a couple of years, we had an opening in our enrollment department as vice president of enrollment, and the president said, "Hey, you know how to call kids up. You kind of know how to do this. You know how to recruit. Why don't you step in?" And so yeah, I again very fortunate that my very first job in the admissions world is as the vice president of enrollment at Defiance College.

[8:52]  And so, yeah, we've had pretty good success so far and been able to do some really cool things here at Defiance.

[8:59]  And that's still the role you're in.

[9:02]  Oh, yeah. Absolutely. So, that's the role I'm in now. I took over in 2023 as the vice president for enrollment management, and so this is like my third full cycle kind of going through. Again, been very successful so far. I've got a really good team that works with me, and I like in addition to just growing the enrollment at Defiance College. Again, we've grown—we grew 78% the first year, we grew another 20% the next year, and we're on track to grow another 15 to 20% this year.

[9:37]  Wow.

[9:38]  But the most important thing to me is that being in the classroom and teaching was great, but this allows me the opportunity to go out and meet with students to give students the same kind of opportunities and some of the same second chances that I was able to receive. And so, um, I, you know, when we have visit days, I always tell people my job as the vice president of enrollment management means I have the best job in America because I get to work with students, right? I get to be on the front line helping students make those changes and find the opportunity.

[10:11]  Jeremy, I ask you, no shade on the person before you, but why do you think you see growth? Is it the way that you communicate? Is it just, you know, different leadership? A lot of people in the same space are not seeing growth.

[10:27]  Yeah. What set you apart?

[10:31]  I think being an outsider from the admissions world allowed me to begin to question some of the things that generally people just do. For example, in this role, oftentimes schools will go out and spend thousands and thousands of dollars to buy names of high school students, particularly students based on what they got on their ACT score, their SAT score, and they focus their recruitment efforts on just those traditional things. Whereas, we're a test-optional school. So, I said, why do we need to do that? Instead, why don't we go back and look at the data of where are we getting students? Where are students applying from but not actually coming? Where are the pockets of growth that we can go to? And so I was able to kind of approach it from a different angle. And again, I think probably some of the most dangerous words in the English language are, "That's the way we've always done it," right? And so being able to break away from that, come into it with fresh eyes and again just use some common sense about the things that we need to do is I think that's helped a lot.

[11:40]  Yeah, and so the other I guess the other thing too is because I'm not from the admissions world, I was able to go out like I purposely as a vice president, I still go out and travel to college fairs. I need to be out on the front line. I need to be able to go out and see what students are asking about. Some of the things that we can do, and I've also been very fortunate to develop a couple of partnerships with some other groups and companies that kind of help us to do some things that give more value-add to our students. So, yeah, I just think just common sense a lot of it and again using data, right? Because without data, it's just an opinion.

[12:29]  I was going to say that, man. I love that you say data because data is everything, right? That data wheel allows you to really know who to talk to, how to talk to them, when to talk to them. Like, and I don't know that people are utilizing their data good enough or creating good enough data. So, I love that your mind went to data, but also to the front line. Like, you don't know if you're not out there doing it.

[12:49]  Right. And you being out there, that's the way to learn, man.

[12:51]  Well, and it's really tough too. Like I mean I can sit in my office and if I send an admissions counselor out, that is probably one of the toughest jobs in America. It's often times young professionals just out of school that don't get paid a lot. Then you tell them to go out on the road for six to eight weeks at a time. Go out and recruit all these students. Well, it's really easy for me to sit in my office and look at a spreadsheet and say, "Hey, you didn't bring back any applications or where are these students at? What are you doing with this time I'm spending and this money I'm spending on you?" I've been to fairs and had crickets where nobody wants to talk to me. So, being able to go out and talk to my counselors and say, "Hey, I see how it is. These are some things that work for me."

[13:40]  You know, and I think too, like this is one of the interesting things. And again, this is kind of a side tangent, but being out on the front lines helped me make a major shift in policy on this campus. Usually before I started, the rule was when you went out to a college fair as an admissions counselor, you had to be in business attire, like either business professional or you had to be wearing a button-up or polo shirt and khaki pants and dress shoes. I went out and I saw that the people that talk to the students are rocking dunks, right? And like that can start a conversation up. So I changed the policy. I actually I'm not a sneaker head, but I got like five pairs of custom Dunks in Defiance College colors, and I want to rock a hoodie when I go out to fairs so that if nothing else they can say, "Man, you're an old guy trying to be cool. I like your shoes. Are those customs?" Yeah, they're customs. I didn't know what a dunk was, right? But going out has helped to do those kind of things. And so, yeah, my team and I are oftentimes known as people out with the best shoes on at college fairs.

[14:47]  You know, I love the way that you think and that you said that though because I think I may have told you, but I've taken over as the president of my old high school, right? These are young kids anywhere between probably 13 and 17 or something like that. And I went for the scholarship awards last year and I went casual, right? I went in an Edgewater long sleeve but red shoes on. Just very casual. And I remember the principal coming to me and saying, "Hey man, you want me to give you like a dress shirt or something?" And I'm like, "You know me, like but you don't like my outfit or something?" He said, "Oh, I didn't know if you just wanted." And I'm like, "No, man. I think I feel more approachable like this." I feel more approachable like this. I feel more approachable like this. Like the kids will be more willing to listen to really because we look like them. We fit with them. And I think so many times as leaders we forget that we got to meet them where they're at. And when we come across in a suit and tie sometimes probably too professional or too like, "Oh man, this person probably doesn't want to talk." But in reality, we're ready to talk. Like come talk to us.

[15:50]  So yeah, man, that you said that is thinking outside the box, bro. And that's why you've been successful is because you thought outside the box. You got to get creative in these spaces, man.

[15:57]  Absolutely. I mean, and you've got to find a way to set yourself apart, right? Like I don't a lot in higher ed, some of the scary words, everyone talks about the enrollment cliff, right? And how there's less students out there and we're not going to be able to go find the enrollment cliff is a real thing, right? Yes, birth rates are declining, but there's some pockets of growth, right? There's some areas. One of the things that we did is we went back and looked where were high schools getting built four years ago because that means that that community is growing and having students come in, right? And so like some of the areas that we begin to target, and that's how we set our recruitment, right? Is where can we go where we know that there's an abundance? There are some schools that don't recruit in certain districts because they've never pulled students from those districts or their ACT scores might have been lower or whatever. We go into those districts where other schools don't go, right? We try to go in and try to because again, every student needs the opportunity. I'm not saying that every student needs to go to college, but every student needs to get the opportunity. And so what we try to do is we try to put our brand not just at the elite schools but at the other schools as well so that those students that are in those areas, everybody's going to have that opportunity.

[17:31]  If the Heart and Hustle podcast has ever sparked any idea or made you think differently, do us a favor. Make sure to share this, post it on LinkedIn, or even text that nonprofit friend that you just have. Whatever works. This is what keeps the conversation going and allows us to just grow this community together. Seriously, we appreciate you.

[17:45]  I think you need to stop giving so much game on this conversation because you dropping these gems right now. Like it truly, you know, and I love how you said it's common sense because it is common sense, but not everybody has it. And the way that you're making it seem, I'm pretty sure people are listening and thinking to themselves like, "Man, why didn't I think of that?" Because it is. You don't go to certain places because that's just the way it has been. But when you realize it, yeah, there's growth happening. Why? What do you mean we don't go there? Do you not see all the growth that's happening there? Be in that seat, man. You just see it's low-hanging fruit, per I like to call it.

[18:24]  Well, and I think I was going to add in I think coming from a historian, like my specialty is civil war, but I also study politics as well. So oftentimes I look at recruitment strategy just like a political campaign, right? Where can you draw students from precinct by precinct, street by street? Because again, you can't have a blanket message for everybody, right? You've got to be able to use data to find where you can get stuff. So yeah. Do you feel we talk about meeting students where they're at? Do you feel that communication has also adapted to that? Because when we talk about meeting kids where they're at, like email blasts are not working, right? Like how are we really getting to the next generation because things look different? Our cell phones, right, is how we could really reach people. So, did you think in that sense as well in that strategy?

[19:37]  Yeah. So, I mean, we did like basically there's the three different ways you can communicate with people. You can write with them, you can send them writing, and that could be text, that could be email, that could be paper stuff. You can do phone calls, right? And we all know this generation doesn't necessarily like to be on the phone. They don't like to talk, right?

[19:58]  Yeah. We can also do like blast emails, right? So yeah, we've completely adapted to that. My first year in this job, we focused heavily on texting kids, but in the state of Ohio, they've changed the rules now so the students can't have their cell phones in school, right? So, you can't text them in school, so we've had to kind of revert back to email as well, but we also communicate with parents through phone calls. We have a really great partnership with a company called Ardo. And basically what it is, is it's a loan repayment assistance program that we provide to students. It's an insurance policy we buy on students because we know that one of the big messages out right now is the fear of student loan debt. Right? People are scared of that. And so we take out an insurance policy on every one of our students when they come in that says if you graduate from Defiance College and you make less than $45,000 a year, then we will help you repay your loans until one of two things happens. Either your loans get paid off or you make more than $45,000 a year. So it's an insurance policy we take out. One of the things that we do is we help our partner that manages the insurance policy. They reach out and they do a lot of the phone calls, and they're talking to parents because that's who's really interested in that. So, we have a multimodal approach to communication. You can't just put all your eggs in one basket because students are this is a very different generation of students and grew up much different than I did.

[21:35]  So, I love this man. I love this conversation. You out here really dropping these gems today, and I appreciate it on this Monday morning. Jeremy, I think what's also fascinating, man, is representation from a male figure. Um, you mentioned earlier your coaches were history teachers, right? They weren't just coaches, but they were history teachers. Allowed you to see a male be a history teacher, right? Like do you feel that was important and do you think it is still important in the space of education to have more male educators?

[22:23]  Yeah, I mean I think having representation, whether it be seeing people that look like you, seeing people that have the same gender identity, whatever. Having those different opportunities and seeing different people in different roles definitely helps and it gives people again our students oftentimes don't even have any idea what they want to do. But that could be the key is seeing another male teacher, seeing, you know, again, I recognize that there's not a lot of African-American men that are in my position that are at cabinet-level positions at small liberal arts schools. So, I recognize that that's where that's at. And so, I think getting students the opportunity and saying that nothing is impossible in today's world. Absolutely. So the more different types of people that they can see in different roles I think is absolutely important. One of the things I always do is I oftentimes have students that say they come up to me at a table and they ask about, "Hey, can I be like do I do you have nursing?" Well, we don't have a nursing program, but I tell students you could be a doctor, do premed. And oftentimes when I tell students that, there's been several times where I told students that and they're like, "What? I can't be a doctor." Yes, you can. Right? So yes, again, a long answer to your short question is I think seeing different roles and seeing people in different roles definitely can help influence and shape and provide opportunity for students.

[23:36]  I love that man. I love how passionate and how excited you sound right now, man. Like you know you love what you do. This is exciting to you. You know what I mean? Like I can see the game in you. Like this is all like to you it goes back to the sports, right? But it's so cool because I think when we grow up with something like that, it teaches us something like I don't know that people really understand you don't got to be good at sports, but what sports really teach you in life. There's a lot of life skills in that and everything that we do. I mean from going to school, right? You're not going to become a professor. You're not going to probably go to university, but there's still life skills that we learn there. And the students that you're trying to reach for and come from these families where nobody's been to college, right? Like this is first-gen. Parents can't guide them because they've just never navigated themselves. How do you reach a family that doesn't know what they don't know?

[24:28]  Absolutely. So, you know, I personally come from the approach of I need every student that wants to get a college degree to get a college degree. I love everybody come to Defiance College, but what we try to do is we are very upfront. We're very transparent. And I tell all my staff to be the same way, right? That when we're out at fairs, particularly if we have a first-generation college, if we're at a high school that has a lot of first-generation students, one, we've got to educate the student and we have to be very responsible on what we say because those students oftentimes are going to hear what they want to hear, right? And we also know that that's just the first line because we have to intentionally market and talk to the parents as well. If a student is a first-generation student, we also need to educate and work with the parents so that they all know exactly what they're coming into, right? And so, we definitely have different communication approaches where we were first talking to the students, get them interested, but then we know we're recruiting the entire family, right? And again, we know that getting a college degree is probably the greatest catalyst for social change, for social mobility, right? Because getting a college degree in a family can change a family tree, right? And so if we can do what like there I've had multiple times where I've had to tell students Defiance College may not be the place that can work with you. Let's help you get into this school. Maybe you go to this school for a couple of years and then come back. Right? Because again, I think that even though we are all competing for students, we have an ethical responsibility to work in the best interest of the student. That's kind of one of the mantras I live by is when people ask me about budget or they ask me can we get this, can we do this, my goal is one, does it fit with the college mission, but two, is it in the best interest of the student? If it's not in the best interest of the student, we ain't doing it. And so that's just kind of the way I think about things, and so that's how I think we have to approach it particularly when we're trying to talk to first-generation students and make sure that their parents understand exactly where they're going.

[26:49]  You said something a little tough there, man, that we got to kind of go back to. College can change a family tree. You've said that. Has it changed yours?

[26:58]  Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, like, you know, as a student of history, I always find it fascinating that I'm only three generations removed from slavery, right? My mom's great-great-granddad was born as a slave, right? He was a sharecropper in Alabama. The idea of a student going off to college, that I mean, that wasn't even an idea. My mother graduated as the salutatorian of her high school in Alabama, and she had the opportunity to go to a college and get a college degree, but she was going to have to pay $50 for her deposit and her tuition or whatever. And that was a lot of money back in the 1960s at the height of the civil rights movement in Alabama. And my mother chose, even though my granddad was going to go out, borrow the money from the bank to go do it, my mother was too worried that she was going to go fail and my granddad would have lost that money. So, she chose not to go to college, right?

[28:16]  Wow.

[28:17]  I was blessed that even though I didn't take advantage of the opportunity right away, I was blessed that I had the opportunity to go to college. And I think that experience that my mother had, my dad was in the military, he enlisted in Vietnam and went to I wake up and I say I had the genetic lottery, right? Because I had the opportunity to go.

[28:41]  And so, you know, with hindsight, I sit there and think about it that yes, my path was, but I think it helped. Both of my kids have gone to college right now. I mean, I think we have six college degrees between me and my family. All of my cousins have gone to college, right? So, like we are very fortunate and blessed that yes, our family now it's an expectation, right? And I'm not saying like I mean some of my cousins like my same-age cousins also went off to college as well too, but a college degree has changed our family tree, you know? And I remember looking at my uncle who eventually he's the first person I knew that went to college and he went to college back in the late 70s, one of the first African-American students to go to the University of Alabama, and he told me about some of his struggles. And so yes, a college degree can 100% change a family tree. So yeah, I'm sorry I kind of went off on a tangent there, but...

[29:42]  No, no, no. I love it. That's the passion right there, man. But I, you know, a lot of time we do the work and we forget that man, it truly has changed my life. And when we realize that is that we can also speak that to somebody else. Like you are a walking example of what it can do if you do it today. Right. And I actually asked you, were you a boomerang? Because you mentioned how you didn't automatically take the opportunity. So you left, right? You left school after you failed and came back.

[30:08]  Yeah. Yeah. So, well, I left. There was a couple of years where I was out of school because I mean, again, my first four years it was kind of like this cycle of in the fall I would party, then I get put on scholastic probation, do decent in spring, just enough to get back up, then yeah. So, it was this whole cycle and then finally it just hit and they were like, "No more chances. You're done." And I was like, "What? I can't come back." And then it took me a year or two of working out in the juvenile prison for a little while, and that was eye-opening because again, that made me realize, man, this is there but for the grace of God, that could have been me, right? And so, yeah. But I was able to get back in, and I remember one of the things too like that again second opportunities, there was an opportunity back in the 90s I had a little bit of an outstanding bill and a registrar looked past that because with an outstanding bill you weren't supposed to get a transcript when you're trying to transfer and get back into school. I had a registrar that just said, "You know what? Here's your chance. Go take advantage of it," gave me a transcript, and I was able to go get the class I needed so I could get back into school. Yeah.

[31:35]  Again, where I'm at now, which I am happy. I am more proud of the opportunity that I have now, but I know I didn't get here by myself, right? Like often times they say it takes a village. Whether it's walking on the backs of my great-great-grandfather who was born in 1862 and working his way up to a sharecropper to my granddad to my mom to all those people that also gave them opportunities right to set us up into a position that yes, I was able to get to where I am. So like, yeah. No, again, I wake up, I'm grateful every day. And again, I want to be able to give students that opportunity. And so oftentimes when I see a file come across my desk or a student, it isn't just the GPA I'm looking at. It's not just that, but I'm looking at that person and like what is this opportunity? How could this opportunity have it? And are they going to take advantage of it?

[32:39]  That um it all makes sense now, man. Listening to this part of the story and really kind of getting here is why you win. Cuz when you've been through it and you lived it, it's so much easier to talk about it, you know, and you looked at life as an opportunity and you failed and got back up and someone else gave an opportunity. And that's what life looks like, man, is that you're not always going to win, right? But every time you fall, you got to listen. You got to see what that lesson is and make sure you don't make the same mistake twice.

[33:08]  Absolutely.

[33:09]  And sometimes you do, right? Sometimes we do, but it takes time because we knuckleheads, right? I can imagine I was that same kid, man. I wasn't getting it at first until you say, "Hey, that's it." You're like, "Wait a minute." So, no more chances. So, I appreciate the conversation, man. I love that what you've done and how really for you a PhD has nothing to do with intelligence, right? It's really about perseverance. Um, and I ask you, what do you say to the student that's listening right now and who thinks that they blew their shot? Because there's many people, Jeremy, that probably think they blew their shot and don't realize there's another door about to open.

[33:45]  Yeah. I mean, I tell everybody if there is a way, I mean, if there's if you got time, you got opportunity, right? If there's if you got time, there's opportunity. This is kind of a weird way of saying it, but my son when he was really small, we used to play Mario Kart, right? And I used to tell him, "Hey, I'm beating you, but as long as I cross the finish line, you can always come back, right?" And that's kind of my mindset is that as long as you're breathing, there's opportunity. And oftentimes it's just a matter of just reaching out and finding the right person, right? And again, my information is public. If there's somebody out there that thinks there's no second chance, call up Jeremy Taylor and I'll help you. I will help you find a way, right? Like because if I can help somebody get a degree that's not only going to change their family tree but it's going to change the world and it's going to help people. The more educated people are, the more conversations we can have. We can look at people from different perspectives. So pick up the phone and call somebody. If you feel as though you've blown your chance, keep trying because there's something out there for you.

[34:41]  I haven't done this a whole podcast, but Dr. Jeremy, as we wrap up here, bro.

[35:08]  No, man. For real. As we wrap up, man, I love that you said that you're an open book. Uh, people can reach out to you. So, that means you're probably on LinkedIn. You're easy accessible. Where's the website for more information on the college itself?

[35:19]  Yeah. So our website is just defiance.edu. Often times people think that that's not a real college because I don't know if you remember there's an old show Scandal that had a storyline in there about Defiance, Ohio, and so people think that it's just something that was made up. But no, we're correct. Defiance.edu. Um, and it's easy to remember because we tell people at Defiance we want you to define your future, right? That's our tagline is define your future. Um, but yeah, they can just go to our website. Um, my email, I don't know if you have show notes or whatever, feel free to throw it in there. JTaylor@defiance.edu. Um, people can reach out. I'm on LinkedIn as well, too, under Jeremy Taylor. Um, and so again, if somebody reaches out to me, I'm not going to hard sell them on Defiance College, but I'll try to hard sell them on taking advantage of an opportunity.

[36:07]  So, yeah, man. It's been a pleasure, brother, to have this conversation with you. For those that are still watching, thank you so much for still watching. Make sure that you guys do like, subscribe, and comment. It's these conversations that truly make a difference. There's people out there that just need to hear that one person to change their minds and change their life. Jeremy, you've done that here today, man. Thank you for dropping those seeds, dropping those gems. My name is Era. This is Dr. Jeremy Taylor. We'll catch you guys on the next one.