From Prison Sentence to CEO: Angie Manson's Radical Path to Leading Elevate Addiction

[Music] Welcome back to the Heart and Hustle podcast here with Angie. How you doing today, Miss Angie? I am good. Thank you. Thanks for having me on. Angie, this is like so professional. I I can go back and I'm pretty sure a lot of you guys that are watching right I can go back and you just don't see this often. You have another host on the back in my day, I was what they considered to be a latch key kid. You get yourself to and from school. You make yourself food while your parent worked. And so a lot of freedom which got me into a lot of trouble. So I started drinking and using at 11 years old and that progressed. Yeah. That progressed. Uh I was in my first rehab at 16. I was arrested seven times as a juvenile. Um I was getting myself into a lot of trouble. And when I turned 18, that didn't stop. Except now I was an adult. And by the time I was I've never been one that could function that way. I don't have a backup plan for me. I work best when I'm just like, "This is it. This is all it'll ever be." And this is why I've been in this position for 31 years. Again, it wasn't gifted to me. It wasn't a silver platter. It wasn't like, "Oh, you know, let me pass this down to you, my child." Like, I had to earn it. And the way I did that was putting in the work every single day, showing up every single day. I'm feeling isolated and alone, what the rest of the world might be going through, must be going through. I know they're going through. I've heard about the daydreaming, the people showing up drunk on Zooms, like all of this stuff. And so I thought, okay, what if I start a podcast where I could just sort of be a voice in the night? I can't go in there, but maybe I can help just one person not feel alone throughout this. And that's what I did. So we started the Elevate Experience in 2020 just to sort of be a voice in the night and let people know they're not alone and we're We're all the same. We're not being told what to do. We're getting there on our own because we like you. We like your look. We like how this place vibes. and we'll go with it. You're just speaking facts here. A lot of people may be in this space and just are like, man, I I want to be myself. Like you guys are really speaking um value into me. I give you another story. tof face it's customer to thing. I don't see us getting replaced by AI anytime soon. So I am trying to figure out you know how we could use it to help us not to get rid of like my employees but how to make things more efficient so we could be there even more for the clients than we already are. Love it. And you say like be more with the clients like just at the communication level or just in person you know they're having a hard day. Let me help you. not like, oh, let me I got to write my notes for two hours. I'll get to you when I can, which is a lot of what's happened with rehab between, you know, appeasing insurance But you know, idleness with recovery is not good. So, we keep them very busy, but we also keep it very much towards life. Like, at home, most people don't have maids that are going to make their beds and make them fivestar meals and do all that. Like, they have to clean their house. They have to do these things. And for a lot of people, they don't know how to do any of that stuff anymore. They've forgotten or they haven't done it. So, it's almost like retaching them how to be people in life while being productive and showing them that, you know, on socials? Where can people get more info on what you guys are doing, Angie? To connect with me personally, it's uh Angie Going Rogue on Instagram or Angie Manson on Facebook. If you need help or you want information on our program, it's elevatehab.org. We also have that on LinkedIn and Instagram and Facebook and all the different places. other side, your own podcast. You're an entrepreneur. I don't I didn't get it last time. Were you a mother as well? I am. I do have two adult children now. Yes. Oh my god. How are you juggling all this? Like where where does this time come from, Angie? Well, now that I don't have smaller children at home, I definitely have more time uh to do more of this kind of stuff. I love it. And let's get started. Angie, this this wasn't all just given to you. It wasn't just uh you know, put on the silver platter, per se. There were some challenges and I and I love this more than anything because so many people will give up uh and and because something happened in their life, but you Angie, didn't matter how many times it happened, you continue to fight. You continue to fight. You never gave up. And now you're in a place where you're helping others never give up, which is a special thing as well. Angie, can we kind of go tell people who are you? What is your business before we kind of get into the the meat and potatoes of the actual conversation? Sure. My name is Angie Manson. I'm the CEO of Elevate Addiction Services. We're a residential treatment program for drugs and alcohol. We also have a virtual um outpatient that we're we we started uh during the pandemic and we continue which is great because we can help people who aren't able to commit to coming into a residential program. I have two podcasts, The Elevate Experience, as well as Angie Going Rogue. And um yeah, I have a CrossFit gym in my uh rehab facility. I'm a huge believer in fitness and I and that being a part of people's recovery. So, I actually have a CrossFit gym on my campus in the Santa Cruz location as well. I love that. I I want to talk about that working out. I'm a big believer that that changed the mindset. Yeah. Right. And and especially when I was a lot of times when I go through it mentally, I realize I'm not working out, you know, and I was like, I got to get back to the gym. And three few weeks later, I'm like, man, this feels so good. There's something there. Like, why did you go CrossFit? Why was that the thing for you? Yeah, it was interesting. So, what happened is I was uh out of the country helping another rehab and uh several of the people that work for me had a group on and they started doing CrossFit while I was gone. When I came back, everybody was doing this new thing. Personally, I'd never been that good in in fitness. I have a heart condition. I have all these reasons why I didn't like fitness. I get bored with it very easy and oh, you know, I didn't want people to see me a certain way in the gym. Anyway, millions of considerations, but I ended up joining the CrossFit because they were all doing it and I'm a big community person. But what I found in that environment is you nobody cares what each other looks like. There's not one mirror in the gym. Nobody cares how fit you are, how fast you are, how strong you are. In fact, it's the people that are usually the last and struggling the hardest that get the most support and validation and cheering. And so, for me, that was very cool. I found a niche where I was like, "Oo, I kind of like lifting heavy weights. I've never done this before." Like, when I go to a globo gym, I see all these machines. I don't know what I'm doing. I try to read the directions, but I don't know if I'm doing it right. I don't I don't know any of this stuff. But in there you have constant uh supervision. Here's the right technique. Add some weight. Add some weight. And so when we created Elevate, I've been CrossFiting for about three years, just finding the joy in that, the mindfulness, the community, the working hard, the endorphins, the fitness. So when we created Elevate, I was like, "This is going to translate so well into helping other people get off drugs and alcohol because, well, it's kind of cultish to begin with." So, but you're taking away the drugs and the alcohol, but you're putting in fitness. So now people are doing things to give them that same sort of feel-good feeling that they used to get from a substance, but now they're learning how to generate it within, how to get wins in the gym, how to get uh their bodies processing, sleeping better, feeling better, doing all the things. And like you said, mentally, how to really um put aside all of whatever issues they're dealing with and just be present in the moment and working on their physical fitness. And then you know how it is when you when you start feeling good, you start looking good. You start looking good, you start feeling better. And so it has this amazing effect where you're not just looking good, you're feeling good because you're taking all the right actions. Yeah. I I'm in that place. I January of this year, I knew that I had to start going to the gym. So I'm 10 months in, almost 11 months in of the year, and I'm at that place where I look at myself in the mirror, I'm like, "Oh, this looks good right here." So yeah, the confidence level is is here. Um, and it all started really because I I wanted to see change in my life. Um, and a lot of times people want change in their lives and they look for what the next thing is and sometimes get into the to the wrong places, right? Um, sometimes they just not strong enough. And I was actually just having this with my conversation with my mother because my biological mother is still an addict. um she's homeless and it's it was it was a cycle of things, you know, from her getting her kids taken away to her being around um drugs, right? That so when pain was happening, she just found that thing. We talk about going to the gym. Um but not everyone has that that kind of support system, right? You guys are a support system that allows you guys to say, "Hey, let's do something different. Let's let's do something that you want. You want to do something every single day. Let's lift weights. Let's change the mind. Let's change the body. But this doesn't come overnight for you. You you had your own struggles. What does that look like for you? Why did you get into this space? Let the audience know why you got to this space. So, I um was raised by a single mom. She had me very young. I had no dad. I was living in low-income housing. And so, 20, I was facing 10 years in prison due to uh you know, some of the things that I had been doing. And I was very fortunate enough to get in front of a judge who said, "Look, you're facing 10 years in prison or you can find a rehab, go to rehab for a year, three years probation, $13,000 restitution, and that's your way out." And being 20 years old, I was I was still not convinced I even had a problem. I was like, "Oh, okay. So, I'm just going to say I have a problem so I don't have to go to prison. Okay, I can get on board with that." Um, I was very fortunate enough to find a rehab that took me in to be there for a year, which is very difficult to find. I learned every position within the organization. I became the right-hand man to the executive director. when he left, I took over for him and I've been in that position myself. So self-taught, but never letting myself believe I can't do it due to the fact that I don't have a degree, this specific education, this specific income demographic. Like none of that mattered to me. If I'm helping one person, then I'm doing my job. So what can I do to help one person now? Two people. How about more people? Angie, I smile when you said no education, self-taught. I love that because me myself, I'm probably like three classes away from an associates degree. But same, I've been able to build brands. I've been able to build businesses. I've been able to go work for million-dollar companies and help them build their business with no here for you and we can help you. And you know, 5 years later, I'm still doing it because I found how much I really love doing that. And again, if I can be of service to somebody free of cost, if I can offer some advice, some support, just an ear, what more should I be doing to help mankind than that? I love that. I love that. Okay. Okay. I see. Yeah. Yeah. It it is community. Community is everything. So many times people just need someone somewhere to go to. I kind of told you the wrestling space like that's what I realized about that space is just the other day someone says, "I'm so looking forward to hopping on because I go live every Monday, every Friday." So in the discord they say I'm This is how like dead on you are on being authentically you. Um I am the president of this foundation for high school and I remember going to pass out award for scholarships and the principal looks at me. He's in a nice maybe three-piece suit, but at least in a suit. And um you know, I'm kind of dressed the way that I felt was comfortable, but not only comfortable, but I think about my audience was the students. Students sometimes are scared to go speak to that guy in in this nice suit, right? So, I also wanted to cater to my audience. So, when he says, "Hey, I have a polo. Like, if you want a polo," and I looked at him like, "Wow, you don't like my outfit? You don't like what I'm wearing?" He said, "Oh, no. I'm just saying if you want to go more professional." I'm like, "No, I'm really comfortable." And you know, I think I look really approachable, actually. And he's just kind of like, he didn't know companies, the states, the the joint commission, you name it. Like, everybody wants their own notes. Like, you could have 20 full-time people just writing notes and stuff, which can take away from let me help this person that's in need right in front of me that actually needs my help. So, I can see AI helping doing a lot of this note submissions and takings that could free up people to better be there for people in person when it's needed. What do you feel is has been a pain point for you as you continue to scale and build? Do you feel like there's something that you're like once I can kind of get over this, we we see growth. Is there anything that is kind of you feel holding you back in a sense? It's our constant battle with the insurance companies trying to show need, exercise, you have to make that time every day. We teach them, you know, by making them do it how to put that in their life. But we're trying to make it most simulate real life so when they leave they can keep all these successful habits in. Was it different from what you experienced when you were going through this? Um, yes and no. I mine was very regimented, too. It was a very long days. It was very much all of that. However, like I said, I was the only client, so it was also kind of the wild wild west. like I would take off for the day and go on a hike and call to be picked up. So, it it's pretty different than how I used to do it. I I I was fortunate enough to um be in a very Love it. All right. So, I leave you this blind question. You built this narrative of transformation, leadership, and growth, but what's one decision you regret or one mistake you really talk about that you believe shaped your leadership more than your success? Whoa, that's a hard question. Well, Angie, because I knew that you'll be able to get it. You know what I mean? Like everything that you you've done in life. This is a good question for Angie. She got this. I'm not alone. Sometimes, you know, there's that adage, it's lonely at the top. It can be. It certainly can be. But for me, I realized as much as my group depends on me, I depend on them. And me being open and honest and vulnerable to them has been the biggest thing that's And because I was unable to pay for it, uh, having grown up low-inccome, I didn't have any resources. I started working within a month of being a client. So now I'm a client and I'm working. But it was during this process that I found my passion and purpose for helping others. I realized that not only helping others, you know, confront and deal with their issues, it helped me do further therapy basically on myself. And from that point on, I mean, here I am 31 years later. I like to say uh you know, I liked rehab so much I never left. Now, obviously there's a lot in between here and there, but that is what put me on the path to helping others overcome their addiction was my own struggles that I had very early on. And I was very fortunate to be put in a place where I could be positive over that and then use it for the good of the world. I love you mentioned the two P words, passion and purpose. And a lot of times through our struggles, we find passion and purpose. Um statistically I would like to say people like yourself and myself we have these stories that uh probably wouldn't allow us when we statistically look at it to be in these seats but we are just that testimony of no you could be in this seat. Someone's watching right now and maybe they have that story that you can also be in the seat when you start to chase passion purpose you chase the right things get into the right communities listen to the right people. Um there's so many different avenues that you have to do right but you got to want it more than anything. You wanted that. You truly did. And if you can kind of look back at your early addiction degrees. And and that is people we we lived in a time where they was like, "Go to school." And that's what success looks like. Yeah. But no, success looks like trial and error for people like us. When we don't have anything and we couldn't go to school, what did that look like for us? Were we just dead beats? Now we figured it out. Life was happening. Some challenges happened. But we took every single moment that we were down. And those were actually lessons in our lives that we can now tell others like, "Oh yeah, I remember and I recall." And you can have that uh more authentic, real conversation. You're in a space where you're telling someone to do better for themselves cuz you did better for you, right? It's not just someone saying do better because they went to school and they had the black and white. So listen, no disrespect to anybody got an education. I just love that you said that, Angie. Like I don't, you know, because I'm in that same space. Um you talked about doing every single um role within the the organization even before becoming the CEO. What is that that important lesson you learned going through every single moment of that? It's leading from the front, right? Like don't expect anybody to do something you yourself haven't done, aren't willing to do, wouldn't do. I mean, back in the day, I would do an overnight detox shift and then roll right into doing the accounting again. just, you know, I did basic math in school, but I selftaught. so looking forward to hopping on u I had a bad day and it's like wow like that's what you do Angie even sometime when you don't even know that you are somebody's day they look forward to that next conversation right that's what gets them over the hump so uh and you do that so authentically you right we talked about it the first day I met you I was like it was a vibe I knew it was a vibe before I even got on a call it was your profile picture like wait she had purple hair like this this is something different why Does that matter? Being authentically you as a leader, you know, for me being something I'm not, I can't do it. Like I I, you know, couldn't put on the the three-piece suit or the whatever blazer. Like I was like, "Oh, that's just like torture to me. It doesn't feel like me. It's not me." And I realized, and again, there's this stigma in society. This is what a CEO looks like. This is what a CEO female should look like. This is what it should look like. And for me, it never felt right. But yet I knew I was that person. So I said, rather than pretending to be somebody I'm not, how about I just be who I am and lean into that? And I've been met with nothing but um appreciation and maybe allows people to to be more themselves too by being authentically who they are. And let like let's break through all of those limitations and restrictions and this is what it should look like and this is what it should be. That's when I started Angie going rogue because I'm like what to say. But it's that it's like I felt very comfortable in what I was wearing. Like I didn't have to go put on this three-piece suit to to match your energy. Like me and who I am, people are going to just love that. And people love you. And because you created that and culture within your your organization, people love that as well. And you've been able to scale um you know to to what is what is a staff member? I think you told me last time, what was the staff count? It's like a hundred. It's 100. Yeah. Between the multiple facilities and all the ancillary stuff. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like come on. What I'm pretty sure you when you started this probably never imagined that you'd be here. Oh heck no. I mean I was one client living in the executive director's house with like six staff. Like in a million years I never would have thought I would go from there to here. Um but again it's just perseverance. It's persistence. It's like not listening to the halls of cans. the statistics of why you won't like it's just like okay well I'm just going to keep doing my thing and helping people and hopefully it all works out treating people right you know seeing them letting them be them their true selves as well I love that I love that I just since day one I thought you were amazing and and now you've just been doing decades of work of helping others you've learned so trying to get You don't like this insurance company, huh? No, dude. They they it is it is so hard. It is so hard. You know, they they want to basically, you know, uh say, "Here's a pill. Here's an outpatient." They don't want to approve, you know, residential treatment even though someone's, you know, overdosed on heroin last week. They want to say, "That's okay. They're all right. Just send them to a meeting and put them on, you know, suboxin." So, it's like for us to get insurance and because now uh people don't want to privately pay for rehab, they can't. You know, we're in the times that we're in. We have to battle the insurance companies to give them quality care and keep them around long enough to actually make a difference. So, that's my biggest pain point is just getting insurance to pay for to help people get the help that they need so that they're no longer a burden on their system. Love it. What does it a day-to-day look like for a client that wants uh your services? Uh they get up early, they make their beds, they clean up their room, they uh attend their morning uh roll call, they rogue time where I kind of did my own thingish. But but again, it's like learning to live in a group, learning to be accountable to others, being learning to be accountable to yourself and do the things that will make you feel good when you're out of rehab. No, it's just very interesting to, you know, the space to talk to someone that's overcome, you know, and got to see the other side. And um do you think there's a stigma on going to to get help? Like you've probably seen you've seen both sides and I'm pretty sure you still probably see people that need it and they still have this stigma. I just want to talk to any stigmas you feel out there that people putting on this. I definitely feel like it's lessened so much over the years, especially compared to the way it used to be and and people are protected. you know, we have HIPPA for a reason is to protect people who are entering rehab or, you know, any medical things. Um, but I actually feel like we're hitting an era where when you've overcome some massive adversity, like an addiction, like something like that, there's strength in that. There's empowerment in that. You're not just a normal person, like you've overcome some massive stuff. So, I almost feel like maybe it's shifting in a direction that I don't want to say it validates you having been an alcoholic or an addict, but it shows that you suffered from a problem, but you overcame it and now look at you kicking ass in life. So, I helped me in the last few years. Instead of feeling like I'm in this alone, realizing, no, we're all in this together. and leaning on them for help, which is really hard for me to do because I feel like I should know all the answers. I should be the person helping. And so for me to not ask for help when I've needed help and then realizing that's all I had to do was ask. That was a good one. See, I told you, Angie, you go do it. That was a good one. No, that is a lot of people think they're alone in this place. Yeah, a lot of people think Oh, man. That was really good. That and that goes to any really audience right now that you're not alone. Whatever you're dealing with right now, you are not alone. I love that. Angie, what a way to just finish off the show here. Guys, if you guys are still watching, make sure you guys do like, subscribe, and share. Pick up Angie in her podcast as well. She got two different podcasts. Make sure you follow both. It's been a pleasure, Angie. We'll catch you guys on the next one. Awesome. Thank you. years, what was that one lesson that you carry into um your leadership even today? Um I would say gosh, just one. Um there's so many. Give me Give me a couple. Give me a couple. Uh for me, I'm all in. Right. So like a lot of people, they have plan B's, plan C's. I'll do this until it doesn't work. Let me get on this computer. How do I I know how to balance a checkbook. Okay, cool. So, let me figure out the systems and processes for that. But I always led from the front. So, I would never ask anybody to do something that I didn't do, didn't know how to do, wouldn't do. Of course, now we've grown into a much bigger thing where I I would never know how to bill insurance. I don't want to know how to bill insurance. That just like sounds like nails on a chalkboard to me. But back then we were much smaller and so it was easy to get in there and jump in and learn how to do it and and then I was able to help others learn so I could give them those things while I continue to look onward and upward and outward. Why the podcast? I mean I think I know why the podcast but I think there's a lot of people that maybe should start their own podcast but I would love for you to as a woman in this space. Why did you start the podcast? So in 2020, the world uh happened upon a pandemic. Uh unprecedented times and I'm a very community and people person. As I said, I lead from the front. So I go up to the center with all the clients and my staff every single day. Now all of a sudden there was restrictions on that. You know, we had to limit the amount of people coming in and out. We had to make decisions non-stop. Navigating healthc care in California in 2020 was like next level. And there was nobody to consult for correct answers. Nobody had the answers. So, we were literally figuring it out. And because I was not going into the center to make that for the people that were handling the clients, I was feeling isolated. I was feeling alone. And I was like, "Wow, if I'm feeling this way and I'm connected to a group of a hundred people plus the clients, if that's kind of who I am. I go rogue like you say I should be like this. I'm gonna be like this but show you how being like this actually works outside of this box that society said I should be in. Uh that's the way my rehab is. That's the way you know my clients, my staff, myself, we we give ourselves the autonomy to be ourselves uh in a professional manner of course but to lean in on being ourselves. And our clients respond to that. They're like you're not in a lab coat having gotten your degree. Again, I'm not I'm also not uh you know making fun of education, but for people in addiction, they listen to other people who've overcome addiction. And if that person looks more like them than this hierarchy of a professional in a lab coat telling them what their problem is, and you know, they've never even touched a drug, we get a much better response because they're like, "Oh, you're just like me. You do understand. You have done this. Therefore, I will listen and follow you." Yeah. A and it leads to really what the culture you've built because I think last time we spoke you told me that that staff or clients can't tell who's staff and who's clients. Yeah. It's on culture and that's what allows one your staff to be around for so long. But people to continue to just kind of flood in and say well this is it. I mean from the leaders she's authentically herself. The people here authentically themselves. I can't even tell who's who. That speaks value. Was that purpose co that culture? Was that purpose? Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, we used to be okay, like we're all going to have the matching polos and we're going to, you know, our badges and we're going to look very professional. And then as time has gone on and we realize that clients don't respond to that. Like they're they're anti- athority to begin with. Now, if you're like coming in like that, it just doesn't match. In fact, they like talking to the person that's wearing jeans and a sweater. I mean, you know, we're not looking slobinly, but at the same time, we're also not dressing. I mean, we have residential programs in the Tahoe forest and Santa Cruz Mountains. Like, if we were coming in in suits, it just doesn't even fit. Like, not even just the culture, but the environment. And so, people feel more relaxed. This is a family. This isn't like uh clinical. This is like we're here working together, being together. much experience but the investor in you still wanted to start at square one why what was what was the psychology behind that of starting from square one. Yeah. I mean, I don't think I had a choice. I, you know, I was kind of sentenced for three years. So, I was kind of like, well, that's not true. I was only sentenced for a year. The judge gave me the freedom to leave after the first year. But because I had found the passion and purpose in helping others, I was like, why would I want to go do anything else? You know, I didn't graduate college. I didn't know what I wanted to be when I grew up. But all of a sudden, my addiction lands me in a place where now I have a purpose for helping others who were like me. what else would I be doing? Um, and so that's just kind of how how I operate. Like, um, what what else could I possibly do that would fill my heart as much as this does or make as big of an impact or a difference than it does? What did you learn most about taking the seat at the head of the table? That I like I don't like being told what to do and so I'm much more comfortable being the person telling others what to do. Um, but also that it's a collaborative effort. Like I am not all about dictatorships. I'm not about, you know, my way or the highway. Like I'm open to honest communication. Um, I will definitely listen to others opinions and take that into consideration and act on the greatest good for the greatest number. Like what what is the best decision for this group? Um, I yeah, I don't like people telling me what to do, especially if it's coming from a place of they don't really know. They're trying to tell me something and it doesn't relate to my business or my people or my situation. Like it's hard for me to get on board with ideas that in my heart I don't feel is the greatest good. So yes, I like my position where I don't have to succumb to that. Yeah, it's your vision. Sometimes, you know, it's it's hard to really put something together when someone is not into your vision. You know, they don't accept your vision. So you being at the head of the table, it's your vision either way. like whether you like it or not, you can either do it or not do it. Which one do you want to do? Exactly. But I don't have an attitude about it either, right? Like I don't have like you can't tell me. I've been doing this 31 years when let me tell you about back in my day. Like I don't have any of that. We like to stay innovative. We like to stay uh you know ahead of the curve. So I'm open to hearing and and you know taking constructive criti criticism. Whatever it is, if it's going to help us and the organization and our vision of helping others, then I'm all for it. each have a chore, they eat their breakfast, they show up for their first block, sometimes it's education, sometimes it's team, sometimes it's experiential. They do that for two hours, then they have lunch. Uh then they have another block where it's the other thing that they weren't doing and then they have a break. Sometimes they go play volleyball. They hang out with their friends. They go meditate by the fountain. Then they have the fourth block or third block of the day. That leads them right up to five o'clock. Then they do dinner. And then they do exercise. That's where we put in the CrossFit or the yoga. Um so it's a very full day. It's a very regimented day. think a lot of the stigma has been removed, but of course, it's still out there because, you know, when people think of an addict, they think of, you know, a fentanyl user, you know, leaning in the streets or whatever it is. and and really and I think what we've seen through a lot of times it's the more subtle ones like the alcoholics like the people where you don't realize there's something else really going on. Um but I I think that we're we're losing a lot of the stigma especially with mental health like being at its like all-time worst. I think it's just another one of those things. What what do you say to the 21-year-old you that um you know you were just figuring out life? You know what do you say to that individual now? Perseverance, persistence, loyalty. Just stay true to you. Like for me, I won't do anything that I know doesn't make me feel good inside. And so, um that's sort of been my northstar. So, as long as I stay true to me and and I act on the greatest good for others, everything works out. Um, somehow someway, I mean, 31 years later through all this, I'm still here doing this. And it's because I just stayed persistent. I kept taking one step in front of the other. Even if I didn't have all the answers and I, you know, felt imposttor syndrome because how could I know I don't have those degrees, I just keep moving forward. Just how can I help another person? How can I take another step? How do I just keep going? really quick. We're not going to spend too much time here because we don't want to, you know, ruffle feathers, but do you ever feel that you know way more than the person that actually went and get the degree sometimes? Yes, sometimes. And like I said, and because mine is such a unique business, right? So like when I listen to those people because you know, uh, accounting, lawyers, whatever, like I'm like in awe of them because they have all this knowledge that I don't have. But not anybody knows the business like you do from the inside. From learning all the hard ways, the bad ways, the like how are we going to overcome this one, the trials, the tribulations, the loss, the this, that. It's like, yeah, I do have respect for for for a lot of people, but not everybody knows how to operate this specific type of business. If the Heart and Hustle podcast has ever sparked any idea or made you think differently, do us a favor. Make sure to guys share this, post it on LinkedIn, or even text that nonprofit friend that you just have. Whatever works, this is what keeps the conversation going and allows us to just grow this community together. Seriously, we appreciate you. I want to switch to the innovation. I I think you said you might have been already kind of tapping into the AI space. So at least incorporating some sort of technology. Um where do you sit when it comes to technology, innovation, AI? Is that something that you guys even, you know, let's talk about AI? Is that something that you guys incorporate? I I to be honest, I'm fighting it. You know, I feel like it's the man verse machine. Like for me, I'm so driven from my heart that when things are overly AIed, I could see people communicating via AI. For me, I feel like we're losing our human touch, our human emotion. So, I go back to what you just mentioned about uh what you would say to your 21-year-old. So you've kind of almost kind of gave me some values I guess you would give by in the 31 years of you doing this work. Do you recall that person that lived those values that um you were able to see their life, you know, transform? Have I seen anybody do that? Well, I'm pretty sure you've seen many people thousands that still resonates with you that you could think right now. I mean I I'm very fortunate. Every Friday night we have a graduation and we we give out um certificates for people completing phases of the program and the whole program as a whole. That is my what drives me. I I see somebody every Friday night get up on stage. I remember them just two months prior. They're crying. They're thinking. They're empowered. They're excited to take on life. Um and and I just I see it in every single person. I am so fortunate to see the results on a daily basis. I mean, I can't say one stands out more than the other. I have staff who've I am struggling with it. However, I know there's a place for it. I mean, the amount of notes and the things that we on a clinical side that we have to do, there's definitely SEO, you name it, there's definitely benefit to us. We however are in such a um a people like driven business where it's you know face worked for me for over 20 years. I've watched them coming from being a junkie to families and just all the stuff. Um, I I am very fortunate that I get to see it on a weekly basis. That's cool. I didn't know. So, is that normal? Like people graduating every Friday, I'm guessing because when they come in at the time that they're coming in, is that normal though for any other organization to see that? Um, I don't know that other other rehabs have graduations like that for us because we're progress based. We have a curriculum. They they you know a lot of people will hold up the first month from detox and go wow okay this is weird the you know last time I got a certificate what for completing detox but then as they're going through the program sometimes those certificates and we'll even hear families say that this means more than that graduation certificate or that other thing because I know how hard they worked to get here. I know the soulsearching. I know all the steps that they had to take to to earn it. And you can see people feel good because they're earning it. They're not being given it. They're earning it. We have one more question we like to call a blind question here on the heart hustle, Angie, because we got to wrap it up. You got things to do. Before we get there, though, where can people follow you? Where can you connect? Are you guys

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