He Manages 22,000 Applications with a Small Team — Here's the System | Todd Rinehart

[0:00]  Okay, so how do you go from recruiting athletes [music] to recruiting the general student body? It's really the same practices, right? It's about relationships. [music] So the teams are replacing and adding, you know, 10 or 12 new athletes each season, not just three or four, but whether it's three or 10, clearly you have to scale up quite a bit in admissions. But [music] when you're working at the same university, you're still selling the same things, right? What I worry about with students and some of these jobs are exciting and they pay well and bonuses and things coming directly out of high schools as an 18-year-old. But what I worry about is what if when you wake up and you're 30 or 40 or 50 [music] and you don't like doing that job anymore and you are kind of stuck because that's what you were trained to do. Where a degree just opens up many possibilities and that's how people are able to navigate and have the 11 different jobs in three or four unrelated fields because the degree didn't just train you on one thing. You're not a one-trick pony.

[1:02]  [music]

[1:18]  Welcome back to another episode here on the Heart and Hustle Podcast alongside Mr. Todd. Todd, man, let's get right into it. You start as an athlete, then an assistant coach, and then somehow you kind of lead up in enrollment management. And I tell you, a lot of people don't know about probably enrollment management. Um, how did recruiting student athletes actually translate to what you're doing today?

[1:31]  Sure. And by the way, I just want to put in a plug. Our hockey team just won the national championship on Saturday night. We beat Michigan last Thursday in the semi-finals and Wisconsin in the finals. So behind me, you're seeing we've won the championship three of the last five years.

[1:57]  Wow.

[1:58]  But if we were to do this podcast in a few weeks, I will have a third banner directly behind me to go with the other two. So okay, so how do you go from recruiting athletes to recruiting the general student body? It's really the same practices, right? It's about relationships. And certainly when you move from athletic recruiting, when you're maybe trying to add three or four new athletes each fall, although that was back when I was coaching. Now with rosters turning over with the transfer portal and you know, the name, image, and likeness and revenue sharing, so the teams are replacing and adding, you know, 10 or 12 new athletes each season. You have to scale up quite a bit in admissions. But when you're working at the same university, you're still selling the same things, right? The great academics, our great faculty, the personal attention we provide at a private university, all the amazing outcomes, the fact that you get to live in Denver and in Colorado. So all I had to do was scale up my game. Right? Instead of trying to recruit a handful, where I will say on the athletic side they could be not just personalized but really customized because you really did get to know them.

[3:30]  Um, when we're recruiting, you know, literally we have 22,000 applications this year. So you can't always get to know these students on a personal and customizable way, but you can certainly take a lot of the same personal things we did for athletic recruits and apply them, you know, on larger scales. Pretty much having the framework, tweaking it to make sense in this case.

[3:47]  Um, I ask you, man, you mentioned hockey, but were you playing hockey? Like, what was the sport? You were an athlete, but what was the sport you were playing?

[4:02]  No, back in the day, so I came up, I was a basketball player through high school and then actually in college, I maybe could have played at a smaller level, but I decided to go to a Division I school and I volunteered right away. I became a student manager and eventually a student assistant, then a graduate assistant, and then kind of one thing just kept leading to another and I ended up coaching at three schools at Bowling Green in Ohio, which is my alma mater both undergrad and grad. And then I was at the University of Louisiana Lafayette, the Ragin' Cajuns. And then I was the assistant basketball coach here at the University of Denver when I first started. And then after about four years, I ended up switching to undergrad admission.

[4:35]  Well, and how many years have you been in Denver now?

[4:37]  This is my 29th year at the University of Denver.

[4:43]  Lord, almost three decades, Todd.

[4:44]  Three decades. Did you ever like I can imagine high school to college you probably thought you were going to be doing something different. I can imagine. What was that thing that Todd thought he was going to be doing?

[5:00]  You know, it's interesting. Yeah, definitely I think when you're in high school and college you didn't even know that a job in admissions or, you know, we call it enrollment management now, that that was a job that even existed. I think you just assumed, you know, you applied and somehow it just magically worked out that someone would actually like read your application or recruited you, but it's changed, you know, a great deal, obviously. Now it is enrollment management and marketing and recruiting and where I think back, you know, I'll age myself, but you know, when I was in high school and college you literally applied to two or three schools and it was, you know, just kind of more of a process.

[5:30]  Yeah. And just you would kind of checking some boxes and it just would magically work out. And today it's, you know, it is a lot more complex and nuanced.

[5:44]  Do you feel just talking about that, do you feel that our students are prepared for that? I always feel like sometimes why some may not get to the next level is because they feel it's difficult, right? They feel like they don't have the resources, but I think one that while it may feel difficult, there's resources out there to kind of navigate that as well. But there's also resources that kind of help you, you know, whether it's paying for college, getting through college, whatever that looks like. Do you feel while we've changed the model that we've also kind of increased access on how to get from A to Z?

[6:08]  Yeah, access has improved dramatically, I would say in the last decade or two. Um, probably what's changed, think, you know, again, I'll age myself. Back in the day, you know, there wasn't internet and you really just relied on your high school counselor. But think about many high schools don't have a counselor dedicated to college counseling. Right? You know, like back in the '80s and '90s they were maybe they were more to help you schedule your classes or any with your personal problems, but they really weren't there to help you with college counseling. That's changed, you know, dramatically. Most schools do have counselors who have training now and information about helping students pick a colleges, but you know, unfortunately we still have a lot of high schools that don't have that luxury. They don't have the resources have dedicated college people. But what has changed? Hey, we've got the internet. We have social media that students can follow colleges on social media. They can learn so many things on the web, not just the websites of the university, but there's many different platforms where students can learn about schools and all their opportunities.

[6:56]  Yeah. Now I agree. I think sometimes it's always one of those like, oh I didn't know, but it's like how do we get them there for sure. So yeah, I actually I'm the president of my old high school and I didn't even know they existed, but it's a college and resource teacher. And she's that's all she does, man. She just gets kids from the beginning of school. She's seeing them in three times a year, making sure they got everything they need, especially as they're graduating. Um, making sure they're filling out their applications, making sure they're filling out those scholarships. Um, but even then, you know, we still got kids that kind of wait last minute and all these different things.

[7:41]  Um, what have you realized that works? When you're talking to these students to kind of get them motivated to fill out these applications faster?

[7:55]  Cuz I was talking to her and I was like, hey, I see some schools that I speak to and they always say that, um, you know, they go speak to kids and they'll help them with fast fun and all these different things. Do we have that happening at the school? She said, "You find you can bring all this to the school, but kids are still going to procrastinate and wait last minute." What do you tell those kids, man?

[8:28]  Hey, I still try to get my own children, right? Who are now in college, just to text me back, right? So sometimes it is, I mean, it's a lot of work and a lot of nudges and you have to keep catching these students where they are at at their given time that it might take 15 emails, right? And finally that 15th one they might respond or, you know, push you in a digital ad or social media post that eventually through different platforms, you know, multiple channels and persistence by the colleges eventually or the counselors at their schools, eventually you do get them through the hoops, right? These students are very busy. You know, they're all doing really well in school for the most part. They work hard. They're busy just for their classroom demands, but then they're in clubs and athletics and theater and organizations and um they're also not just looking at one or two local schools. Certainly the number of students are, but students are also looking at 10, 15, 20 schools and they're all over the country and you're getting bombarded with emails from all of those schools plus the ones you didn't apply to. So there's a lot of noise that you do have to kind of navigate through. So that's why I think those little additional nudges on the personal level from a counselor running into someone in the hallway saying, "Hey, Johnny, deadline's tomorrow. Did you submit it yet?" Right? And a lot of times they haven't. But if you didn't have that little bump in the hallway, maybe they would have missed a deadline.

[9:14]  Yeah. Now for sure. I always say that one moment, right? That one time, that one person can change it all and it's being right there as you mentioned where they're at, meeting them where they're at. For you to be there, man, almost three decades now, I can imagine you just get kind of refilled every time you walk through the university. Is that what keeps you there, man? Is the energy of the school? You obviously you guys become champions again. That could be the excitement around the school going on right now.

[10:00]  Yeah, we are the campus of champions, right? And you should have seen the campus and the surrounding area Saturday. Literally thousands of people just all wearing the DU swag and colors. Uh, it was super fun, but that's one of the reasons. There's nothing better than living and working on a college campus. That you're always around whether it's the students, the faculty, or staff. You're just surrounded by smart, ambitious, motivated people who I think also have just a positive lens on kind of the future of the world. And that's invigorating to be around.

[10:45]  I love that. And we've got a team that visits, I think you mentioned about a thousand plus schools and colleges fairs every year. What does that look like? Like what exactly looks like when you guys set a foot on campus? Do you feel like that there's a lot of changes there? Do you feel like that's what's needed to get the information and resources out?

[11:00]  Yeah, I think there's a number of things. You have between high school visits and college fairs, our team will visit at least a thousand schools or programs. And a lot of times that's just in the fall that we end up doing more of this time of year, too. Working with the 10th and 11th graders now to get them to apply, you know, either next year or another year from now. But you do it for a couple of reasons. You know, in the beginning, yes, it's sharing information, right? You're bringing all your propaganda and your marketing materials on how great your university is. And certainly those are all true. Um, but the other thing is it's really about the relationships. That the students change because they graduate. So you're wanting them to remember what are the great strengths about the University of Denver and the things we want them to know about our curriculum, about our faculty, and about the way we mentor students and the outcomes, how our students graduate and then become great citizens and alumni. The counselors are the ones that really help us organically. Cuz students come and go, but the counselors are the constant at those schools.

[12:17]  How does it feel, man? I can imagine you've been a part of somebody's journey, maybe starting at 17 years old, see them kind of go through, graduate, probably come back and share these conversations. What does that make you feel? How does that make you feel?

[12:35]  It's a really proud moment. I mean, I think it just reminds you how noble college access work is and college admission that absolutely when you've been here three decades, I'm now starting to recruit students of students if that makes sense. Yeah, who we first recruited are now 40 years old and they have their own families and careers. And what, that's just so gratifying to see that, to see how they've evolved and you know, they're maybe on their second or third job now and they've been promoted and they're doing well. And now they have a student they maybe remember the friendship they had with me and they remember the great memories and results they had at the University of Denver and they bring their students back to look at campus. And that's super fun.

[13:03]  Yeah, and I can imagine a lot of those probably first gens and then be able to kind of give that opportunity to their kids and you being a part of that journey. That's what you do for, man. I can imagine that this is passion and purpose, this is it. It's not about you per se, right? It's about the next generation. It's how do we get them so involved? Um, and I think that there's could be a challenge going on right now. I think there's so many challenges, but I think from the challenges of what people may not think that school is important, right? Or valuable. I think the best one that I heard so far was like if you ever think about buying a car that cost $20,000, it devalues, right? Once you drive it off the lot. But getting that piece of paper, that education, that black and white, no one can ever take that away from you. And you just mentioned three or four jobs to somebody. And that could be that's they're getting more and more every single time. So the ROI on it is actually very high compared to you investing into a car. And when someone paints that picture, I don't know that people paint that picture that way.

[15:21]  Yeah, absolutely. I think you've got to and it's like a retirement planning. You have to have the long-term view. That you know, what I worry sometimes you see in the media that students are told, "You don't need to go to college. Look at the job you can get right out of high school and the great money you can make." And by the way, in some cases that is absolutely true. That maybe out of high school your job is really similar. Although I think all the research will show even the first job out of college does pay more than the high school diploma job. But where it really gains value, if you only want to look at careers and salaries, is over the course of your career. What I worry about with students and some of these jobs are exciting and that you pay well, they have bonuses and things coming directly out of high schools as an 18-year-old. But what I worry about is what if when you wake up and you're 30 or 40 or 50 and you don't like doing that job anymore? And you are kind of stuck because that's what you were trained to do. Where a degree just opens up many, many possibilities. And that's how people are able to navigate and have the 11 different jobs in three or four unrelated fields because the degree didn't just train you on one thing. You're not a one-trick pony.

[15:25]  [snorts]

[15:25]  Yeah.

[15:26]  Because you know, we don't just educate you only in your major, right? That oftentimes you have a second major, two or three minors. But it's also the mentoring you get in the personal growth you have over those four years that I think are just as valuable as checking the box on the curriculum. And those are the long-term gains. And I worry about, "Hey, great. You made really good money out of high school for five years, but now you're kind of stuck. And you're not as easily able to navigate into kind of doing new and different things."

[16:12]  You know what, you say that, that actually makes a lot sense. I would say I left high school. I was one of those fortunate ones that I left high school to become a GM at 19 years old and I was making great money. But yeah, once I walked away after the seventh year, I didn't have a degree to fall back on, all right? So it's almost like, "Oh, okay, you did this. Where do we go from here?" Which I never mind. Like I sometimes purposely did that. But uh yeah, for sure. If I had that degree would've been an easier transition. I think we see it that way as well. There's so many different aspects of that.

[16:35]  And I think there's also when we think about our students thinking that some majors may not matter. The biggest one that I've heard so far was in engineering, right? Are you guys also seeing some decline in certain programs just because they think AI is the next wave, so we don't need to go there? But it's probably a little opposite as well, right? Can you kind of talk about that?

[16:58]  Well, hopefully one of the main things you learn while you're on our campus is how to become a lifetime learner. That you will always have to stay relevant, right? Innovative. Like you've even mentioned me being here 29 years. The new and different skills and competencies I've had to gain to be successful in my job, right? I'm not just using what I learned in college. That, yeah, especially in the STEM fields, that information probably doubles every two or three years. I would say you still need them first of all learn to learn. But secondly, some of the foundational things will always be the same or at least give you that great baseline to learn the new things, to keep complementing and adding on your skill set.

[17:45]  Computer science is a program right now nationally, not just at the University of Denver. I think a lot of us at universities have seen a decline in the number of students applying and considering computer science. And I think that's a mistake. Cuz yes, AI and all the technology we have, they maybe are replacing certain aspects of your job, but not all of the jobs. And I would still say I would think the ability to really have checks and balances with AI, you still need a human that knows how to code. Cuz how do you even check accuracy on AI or check accuracy on any number of things if you yourself haven't trained your brain to do it? Um, and yes, if you can it's not replacing jobs. Technology is hopefully going to replace aspects of your job so then the human can do more higher level things. And you know, free up time to be more strategic, more visionary. Um, but I would still want that baseline training. I wouldn't just write off computer science and not do it. If that's something you're still interested in, go for it. Um, and I think your career might actually be more exciting because you won't be doing some of those you know, menial things.

[18:30]  Okay, so that is good. I do agree with everything you just said. But then I'm also having a problem, right? Because then I go, I told you I'm part of the high school. Every time I go I cannot use a chat GPT or Claude because it's banned in the high schools. So it's like if we want our kids to go and say that it's okay and that there's all these opportunities, like we have to be teaching our kids that, right? And while college is doing that, at the high school level they're kind of creating that fear, right? You can't use this instead of you allowing them to use it correctly. I think at some point we see job descriptions that are looking for a prompt engineer. Because you still have to understand how to have this AI work.

[19:16]  It isn't just work. Someone has to make it work. Absolutely. So I think you're right. But do you think that we're also not to you know, be knocking on any high schools, but do you think that that's the level we really should start kind of saying, "Hey, these are the god rules. This is how we should be using it." So that they're a little bit more open to even that degree?

[19:42]  You know, I think it's across the board. You can look at high schools and colleges and universities. And there are some that yes, are really keeping it down under wraps. And there's others that are embracing it, embedding it, and integrating it in every way they can. The University of Denver is certainly one of those schools. We see the importance of it. We want to integrate it not just in our STEM programs, but integrated across our curriculum. We don't care if you're an arts and humanities, social sciences major, or a computer science major. These are skills you must have. And you need to use them to be proficient, you need to use them and benefit from them. Students are using the tools, whether you like it or not. Um, so you might as well open it up and embrace it in your classrooms. And certainly you want to put parameters around it, right? Maybe each class or each professor might have different guidelines or practices where they all agree, "Hey, we'll use it for these things, but these things over here, maybe let's all agree we're not going to use it." But to shut it off completely, I think it's a mistake. And I think the schools, you know, I can certainly point to a number of school districts at the secondary level where they are embracing it. So colleges better be ready. Colleges better not shut it off cuz these high school students are already coming with an expectation that it's part of their life and part of their academic experience.

[20:49]  If the Heart and Hustle podcast has ever sparked any idea or made you think differently, do us a favor. Make sure to share this, post it on LinkedIn, or even text that nonprofit friend that you just have. Whatever works, this is what keeps the conversation going and allows us to just grow this community together. Seriously, we appreciate you.

[21:00]  What ways are you using it, Todd? I know you mentioned that you're a fan of the AI space. Are you using AI in any certain ways that people probably didn't realize they can use AI?

[21:12]  You know, we're kind of on the edge of doing it. Um, AI sounds wonderful, but it doesn't always work exactly how it is marketed right out of the box. I think eventually a lot of college admission offices will be able to use it to calculate GPAs on transcripts. So let me remind all your listeners that I think most college admission offices will still always have humans reading applications and making the admission decisions. But AI could help them be more efficient. The file would already be prepared and ready before they read it. So a human doesn't have to calculate the GPA. Right? A human doesn't have to do the credit evaluations cuz so many students are also taking college classes that Hey, these four classes will come in for these credits at DU. AI will eventually be able to do that. We're taking this year to train a couple different AI platforms to do credit evaluations, to do GPA calculations. We also have another platform to help us personalize and scale even more. You know, I mentioned we had 22,000 applications. I don't have enough humans and there aren't enough hours in the day to always personally communicate with them. But AI can learn things about the students and learn things about DU and maybe it's a text message or an email or a phone call, incoming or outgoing, that yes, it's a bot, but it's a bot that's been trained by DU humans. So it knows DU as well or better than probably our staff. My staff can't memorize our entire website. Right? My staff can't memorize the entire course catalog. Right? AI in some ways is a better counselor and advisor than a human with some of those quick facts that, you know, you just need to know. So I think there's a lot of advantage. I would say there's a lot of advantage.

[23:08]  Um, you know, we're still testing. AI doesn't always pull the right stuff from the website. And guess what? Your website isn't always up to date, either. You might have a brochure from 1995 and that the information on there is not what you want to be sharing with students.

[23:25]  It's funny that you say that, man, because there's been so many times I'm a big AI user and where I'm using a cloud or a ChatGPT or something and it would say, "Hey, by the way, this is wrong." And you're like, "Holy crap, like three eyes have done cross past this and no one's caught this." The things that AI does pick up, sometimes Yes, today I was fighting with it. I'm like, "Hey, I'm looking for this online, but I cannot find this." And the response to me was like, "Okay, I was making it up." You're driving me crazy making things up. I'm going in circles. But so there is this understanding that it is not going to be perfect. It still needs so much, you know, input. It's data, right? That's why I say when we talk about that engineering and the computer science data, you can still be a part of it because it's still being built and will be continued to be built.

[24:40]  And when we think about where technology's at, man, we started off and the I don't have it now. Somewhere in my office, but a floppy disk. I think it's so funny that I even still have this floppy disk. But I just think about the evolution of it all, right? When we then go into something like internet and people were scared and it was like, "What is this?" And then we go to social media, which was another scary part of our lives. "What is this?" Right? But it's all kind of been integrated. I think AI is that same thing will be integrated. It is now and it will continue to be integrated.

[25:25]  So what are we doing to kind of stay up and relevant and doesn't leave us behind?

[25:30]  I think using AI and allow it into to loop in with humans, allowing those humans to do sometimes what they went to school for and what they really love, that passion. And just let AI do the things that are repetitive, right? Those frequently asked questions that are being asked all the time. Just imagine the time consumed, the energy for someone to sit here and answer the same questions over and over. It makes it boring, right? The only reason Todd has been able to do this 29 years cuz it's been exciting. It's been new. Been challenging. And that's what kind of keeps you going, man.

[26:00]  But outside of school, cuz it seems like you love what you do. What is keeping Todd grounded, man? What is Todd doing outside the higher ed world?

[26:11]  Well, first of all, there's also another reason why I've said 29 years. Living in Denver and living in Colorado are pretty special. And you know, if you embrace the outdoors, I love to bike, golf, ski. I just go out for hikes and walks. Like there's a lot in Colorado that And especially in our very stressful jobs, boy, you even an hour away walking out in our great sunshine. And it's not just marketing. We truly do have over 300 days of sunshine. I'm sure there's some data geek or AI would tell you, "No, it's actually like 285 or whatever."

[26:35]  It certainly feels like when you live here, the sun is out literally every day and it's blue skies. It is a pretty refreshing place to stay energized and to stay healthy. Like um this weekend, I probably rode, I don't know, 80 miles on my bike, right? Between Saturday and Sunday because you get great weather and you can you can And in our jobs, there really isn't this Monday through Friday. Like I still work nights and weekends, but you just have to blend your life where you're kind of doing career and personal things any day or any night. Um, but as long as you're still squeezing in those personal things, I think game on.

[27:44]  I love it. And have you thought about when you're going to hang up the chair, man? Or what do we call it? Hanging up the I've got a while. I don't know if I'll finish I don't know that I'll finish my career just because of what I said. This job does require nights and weekends and you're always having to be on your A game. And you know, but I would like to do this work for a while yet and then maybe like we talked about multiple careers and jobs, you know, maybe I'll see that for my next chapter in another decade.

[28:30]  What would that even be? What would that even be? Like have you even thought about, "Hey, if I can do something else, what would I do?"

[28:35]  You know, I probably would still stay in higher ed doing something, either you know, there's so many things you can do. You can do my job as an interim, you know, when schools have an opening, you go and help them for six months or like all the different vendors who are great partners for people like us and our staff in an admission office that I would enjoy that cuz you can really focus on helping people with strategy and solutions and be part of their victories. So I think those are definitely options I'd consider.

[29:10]  And who knows, you say all this and you might still be in this seat, you know, another decade.

[29:15]  You never know. Let it happen.

[29:17]  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, for sure. You just got to let kind of ride the wave. I mean, look what's gotten you, you know, 30 years later. I just love that you 30 years later. I just love that you 30 years later. I just love that you still speak so highly of it. Like it just doesn't seem like work, clearly, right? You really love it, clearly, right? You really love it, clearly, right? You really love this. You wake up to this.

[30:00]  Um, what do you tell that person that is maybe a first gen and they're just feeling like this is not for them or they just don't know how to get started?

[30:10]  I think there's a lot of people that want to do this. They never seen it. And I think it's so hard for people to reach something they have never actually seen or don't have the help to get to. What do you say to them?

[30:30]  Yeah, I would say one, um you know, college just truly is not for everyone, right? There are other really good tracks that are great for your career, too. And you know, we talked about some of that earlier, but some of those professional trades are really you know, can really lead to productive careers, too, right? But I would say for the people that just don't see themselves in that you know, they maybe been disenfranchised in high school cuz they feel like it's just this busy work and it's boring and how does this apply to my life or when will I ever use this again? I would say keep your eyes open and your perspectives open that college is just a lot different. It's not about, hey, here's five lectures and take a quiz or a test or that there's so many other things going on and you live on a college campus. You might only be in class, let's say, you know, 12 to 18 hours a week. Well, that's not even one day. Remember there's 24 hours in a day and obviously we spread that across five days, but think of the hours outside of class where you are maybe doing an internship or you have a job or you and your friends if you're here at the DU, maybe you're going camping or maybe you're going snowboarding together. Um, you're going down to a Nuggets game downtown Denver or you were celebrating our hockey championship Saturday night that there's so many things that happen along that four-year journey that and that's been the fun part of my career, too. Seeing a first-year student come in and then four years later at graduation, seeing how much they've matured and just the sophistication academically but also personally. That growth is so fun to watch.

[32:50]  So, I think the people that are only thinking about, hey, the curriculum or the school part are kind of missing the boat of the holistic education that we provide and not to um, don't underestimate these sticker prices on that. That the ROI on that is it's priceless, right? Like the ad, you know, you can't put a price tag on that.

[33:10]  I love it. Well, listen, Todd, I thank you so much for your time, man. I can't believe that we've been talking for as long as we have, but I appreciate the conversation and for those that are still watching, higher ed is definitely an investment worth looking into. So many people just look at the price tag as you kind of mentioned it and it scares people cuz you're thinking about the now and you're not thinking about what happens when you actually make that investment and how you'll see that, you know, 3x and 4x just as long as you just stay persistent, uh, find those resources.

[34:00]  Todd, really good resource. Where can people find more information? What is the website that people can find some more information? Are you on LinkedIn? Maybe someone wants to write you a personal message. If you can just kind of give us all of that before we start to wrap up.

[34:20]  You can definitely personally find me on LinkedIn. You can find me just go to the DU directory and look up Todd Bryant my email and I'm always happy. What I'd encourage your listeners to do and for you, come visit our campus and on our website you can sign up for a visit. If you're coming and you listen to this show, um, shoot me an email before maybe I'll take you to lunch or at least, uh, for a couple minutes say hello and it'd be fun to connect that you learned about DU through this show and then, uh, we'll go celebrate it and I'll host you for lunch.

[35:00]  I and hopefully we'll get another championship next year, right? Now it'll be four out of six years, right?

[35:05]  Yeah, four out of six years.

[35:06]  Love it. My name's Efrain. This has been Todd and make sure you guys do follow, subscribe and comment to enjoy more conversations like this. Thank you again, Todd, for your time. We'll catch you on the next one.

[35:20]  Hey, we enjoyed it.

[35:21]  Thank you.