High Touch, High Tech: Reaching More People Without Losing the Human Connection | LeAnn Hughes

[0:16]  Welcome back to an episode here on the Heart and Hustle podcast alongside Leanne Hughes. What's up? How you doing?

[0:22]  Great. How are you?

[0:24]  I'm doing good. We were having such a great conversation before we even hit record. And I want to start off with this dandelion for those that may feel that they cannot control the controllable or yeah, control the uncontrollable. Actually, you have a dandelion on your wrist. What was the meaning that you said behind it?

[0:41]  I do, and I think, you know, in the work that we do, you can control things, but at the end of the day, there are a lot, as you say, a lot of things that can't be controlled. And so I wear it on my wrist as a reminder that we are where we are supposed to be and we're going to land where we're supposed to be because dandelions, you know, they are what they are and they blow in the wind and land where they belong. And so it's just a reminder to me. I don't think of them as weeds. I think they're quite beautiful. So just a reminder that, you know, we can do all the things that we know to do, but at the end of the day, we're going to be where we're supposed to.

[1:17]  I love that. I go back to why you even got that tattoo and how long it's been or the why.

[1:24]  But I would tell you that, yeah, I was walking with my son the other day, um, yesterday or the day before. He's two years old and you're all right. Sometimes we think weeds are just yucky and ugly. But sometimes they really produce some of the most beautiful things, right? So my son picked up this yellow flower and brings it to grandma, and I'm like, that actually is a pretty yellow flower. And then sometimes you see the pink ones come out, and you're like, those are actually some really beautiful flowers. So even through those hard weeds, something beautiful still grows out of it, such as a dandelion. So that is actually right when you think about that. And so many times we're so quick to make that impression of it's not good, right? It doesn't produce well.

[1:58]  Look at some of the things it does produce. So, uh, going back though, why and how long did you get that tattoo?

[2:04]  How long ago?

[2:05]  Um, I got it, I think it was right after COVID, and I don't know. I was just looking, I wanted a tattoo on my wrist, and I was just thinking about life and thinking about, you know, the work that we do. COVID was a time that we were also feeling a lack of control. The whole country was feeling a lack of control over things, and it just sort of clicked in my head that that's what I wanted. So yeah.

[2:32]  Is he your first and only?

[2:34]  No.

[2:35]  Oh, you got okay?

[2:37]  Yeah, I have several. I've got the other one that's really special to me, my father, who I think we'll probably talk about here in a few minutes. He passed away when I was 15, and he was a ham radio operator.

[2:51]  And which people now, I mean, you're probably so young you don't even know what a ham radio operator is.

[2:54]  Yeah.

[2:59]  But it's like, think early internet. It was a way ham radio operators functioned in crises. So it started with using Morse code, and then you moved up and eventually had a microphone and were able to talk to people. So he spoke with people all over the world from the basement of our house who were also ham radio operators. So, his call sign was KA4BNA. And so, I have that on my other wrist here just to remind me of him when I look down. So, yeah.

[3:35]  That is so cool. I mean, I only got one tattoo, but I love that you didn't just get a tattoo. They have meanings. I was so close to just getting that random tattoo that everybody got, you know, the Jesus hands with the...

[3:48]  Yeah, I almost got that. Then I almost got around the time of '08, everyone was doing stars, um, the shaded stars, and I almost got the shaded stars, but every time I went to the tattoo parlor, something was happening. So I just didn't do it for years, and then when I did, it was very meaningful, and I'm so grateful. You know, when we think of art, it just has to have meaning, especially if we're going to put it on our bodies. So I'm glad that you've got these tattoos that mean something to you that you still hold close to you as well.

[4:15]  And um, that's a good story. You did mention your father passing away at 15. That's high school days.

[4:22]  And you know, I know I was going through my own trauma, but I couldn't imagine losing that parent that you're waking up to every single day that was, you know, probably your idol, right? Like I always think to as a parent and seeing my kids just think we're the best thing in the world.

[4:38]  They do. Yeah.

[4:39]  How did you navigate that? And like what did that really, you know, teach you in that moment?

[4:44]  Yeah. So, I was an only child, and I was a daddy's girl for sure. Um, in fact, I think it would hurt my mom sometimes that I wanted to be outside when he was, you know, mowing the lawn and doing the things. So, yeah, it was tough to navigate, and I did not enjoy high school. High school was tough for me as well. Um, I was thinking about that, ironically just thinking about that over the weekend, seeing students come in to the university here and how much I hated every day of high school and just could not wait for it to be over. Um, you know, I was lost and spent a lot of time sleeping. I had a very close connection to my grandmother, and so sometimes when, you know, my girlfriends were going out and stuff, I would pretend like I was sick and I would just go hang out at my grandmother's house and I buried myself in books. I'm a lifelong reader. Um, and so just, you know, really, um, but I also had some good support around me so that when I did go to the University of Tennessee, I think what I found there was I could do this because they gave me the secret to it, which is they wouldn't have admitted you if they didn't know you could do it. All you have to do is be present and do the work. And that simple formula for me is what carried me through my university days and really transformed my life because I've worked in higher education almost my entire career as a result of, you know, my formative time at the University of Tennessee. So, good people telling me and giving me that support and confidence. You know, going to college is a challenging thing, and I say that to the students here. Um, in fact, we just had admitted student day, and I have this graphic that I show them that's a circle, and I say, "Just picture yourself standing in the middle of this. These are all the resources the university has to make sure you're successful, and it's everything from our counseling services to, um, you know, our healthcare facility here on campus to advisors. You know, it's all here, and you can do this because I think particularly post-COVID, this generation of students is also doubtful of themselves and worried about, you know, their success going to college. So again, I think it's all about just knowing what you have around you and tapping into those opportunities.

[7:20]  Yeah, for sure. And then just talking about, I love the visual. I'm a visual type person. So you just kind of painting out that picture of someone in the middle and all the resources that are within the school. I don't know that that's actually communicated good enough, right? I'm someone that went to college. I can imagine colleges and universities throughout our country have these resources. But I always say that it's like, how are we communicating these resources? Some of it sometimes is in our own backyard. Like literally being at a school and there's resources there and you don't even know that they exist. Do you think that what is the gap? Like, is it the way that we communicate? Is it, um, you know, does it start should be starting a little younger in the high school days, right? Cuz it seems like you also learned a lot in college. Maybe of course school taught us things, but college was that light bulb moment that like, wait a minute, there's more to this. What are your thoughts on that?

[8:07]  I think there's so many resources that people do not grab because they just don't know.

[8:14]  Yeah. I think it's a combination of not grabbing because of not knowing, but also not having the confidence to advocate for yourself.

[8:23]  And so I think that's another thing that, you know, in the formative time during university, you know, that we really need to teach students. Um, and it's always so interesting to me as the from the enrollment standpoint because I see, um, you know, Saturday I was taking enrollment deposits, and it was so interesting to watch how some of the parents just came up and went ahead and filled out the paperwork, but most of them were like, "You're the adult. This is your paperwork. You fill it out. You know, it's time for you to do this." And, you know, I think that's the way to go is to really let them know that it's going to be on them. Um, you know, there's a phrase in higher education, and I don't know who coined it, but it's the idea of the helicopter parent, right?

[9:08]  And so, um, you know, really working we have resources for the parents during our orientation that help them navigate and we have communications to the parents as they're going through the process about, you know, thinking through how you want your child to advocate for themselves. There also may be a moment where they want to come home because they think they can't do this, and your job is to say no. Um, you know, stick it out a little bit longer, unless there's something really, you know, serious happening, of course, but, um, your job is to say no. So, I think there's some of that, but, you know, it's hard. I also have this analogy that I talk about. I have a 21-year-old son, and I had a picture of a Springer Spaniel, and I held a picture of my 21-year-old son. He was actually more like 18 at the time, and I said, you know, what's the difference between these two things? And it's not a lot. Their attention spans are very close to the same. So, I think part of it is just repeating the messages so that they get through. Yeah. Um, you know, and so I think that's a lot of what we do in higher ed is you can't just say it once. You have to say it multiple times through multiple channels, and, you know, hopefully it sinks in. But then you also have to be, um, I think we like to call it intrusive advising.

[10:39]  Um, you know, so that you're coming to them without them coming to you and saying, "Okay, let's talk about this. Have you gone to the career center? Um, you need to do that because if you want to major in this and you want an internship, now is the time to start talking about what you want your path to be. So, um, I think schools who do that really well have better retention rates and also happier graduates at the end of the day.

[11:05]  You've dropped some gems here. I also noticed that you love to give visuals. Where do you learn that from? Because this, we're only 10 minutes in. I've got two visuals, and I'm like, okay, I can see it. Funny thing is, my wife always likes to tell me I have a squirrel brain. So if she would have probably put a picture of a squirrel in me like, what's the difference? And then I would understood.

[11:29]  Go ahead. Why visuals? Why is that your...

[11:30]  Yeah. I don't know. That's a great question because I certainly am not an artist, but I did grow up. It's funny, my best friend in the whole world growing up and still very, very close. He is an artist, and so we would lay on our stomachs on the sidewalk, and I would write stories, and he would illustrate the stories, and that was like fun for us when we were, you know, elementary school age. So maybe it came from just, you know, from him. I'm not sure, but I do, I am a visual thinker, a visual learner.

[12:01]  Um, you, I just in 10 minutes you gave me two visuals, and they were really good visuals that were easy as someone to catch on. There's something there for sure.

[12:02]  Of course, you didn't know this probably role existed. A lot of you guys are in this role for some apparent reason. It was like, uh, you know, speaking a different language, per se, but what did you actually graduate with like your degree and then how did you get into this role?

[12:27]  Sure. So, um, my mother took me to a psychologist and I did a test that was, um, it's the Campbell Strong Inventory. I'm not sure if it even exists today, but it basically takes your skill level, your skills, like what you're inherently almost like a Myers-Briggs type thing, but then it helps match you with potential careers and jobs and majors. And so, it told me that I should go into communications and marketing. And so, I went into English. I didn't listen to it. Um, I loved my English classes. As I mentioned, I'm a lifelong reader. So, um, I majored in English and I had a minor in psychology. And, um, when I finished college, I went to a master's program. My thinking at the time was that I was going to be an English professor because I loved I'd fallen in love with higher education.

[13:24]  Okay. So, um, when I was going through my master's program and kind of on the fence about whether or not to go forward with the PhD and, um, ended up working at a computer company doing training. Um, and I was a girl that when I wrote my thesis for my master's degree, I wrote each chapter as a different word document because I was terrified to merge them into one. This is how little I knew about computers. Uh, but ended up teaching end-user training for Microsoft Word products and as well as, you know, a couple other things. And so it really gave me a secondary confidence in, you know, working hard to know what you're doing and then to present that to people in a way that they understand how to navigate. And so they sort of figured out that I had an eye for marketing, and so they put me over marketing.

[14:23]  Um, and so I went from there to, um, the Kingsport Chamber of Commerce, and I was the marketing director for the Convention and Visitors Bureau. And so I did that for three or four years. And then the marketing director at a university there in the area came open, and I applied for that. And, um, I was at that job for over 12 years and left as the VP for enrollment management. So, um, lots of opportunities happened there. But I think it's that, you know, that liberal arts core, you know, whatever you major in, if you're able to write and think critically, take things to the next step without having to be told, you know, what something needs to look like and think that way, you succeed in your career because it gets recognized and people move up the ladder. So, I always say, you know, um, there's a lot going on in higher education right now about majors and, you know, the outcomes that come from majors. But, you know, having worked at all liberal arts at, you know, universities my whole career, I can tell you that we have graduates who are CEOs who majored in English or psychology or philosophy or something like that.

[15:44]  I was going to say you just really kind of probably painted a picture for somebody that felt that they had this English major and couldn't really do much with it. You really opened that door. Um, really interesting that you ran away from communications and marketing, but you are in communications and marketing like you know sometimes life be life and we got to figure out sometimes we're a little stubborn. We go through life but if we really tune in, you know, and tap into ourselves we can get there faster. Right. But sometimes we just want to figure it out. You figured it out, you know. And I can imagine those lessons also made you who you are today without those are we the same people. But that is so cool that you've someone even seen that in you, right? Someone seen you to give you that marketing opportunity when you just thought like I just want to do this and then you end up back at school. Something that also gave you passion.

[16:31]  But one thing that you keep mentioning is confidence. I think it's huge. I think that not, I mean, I fell for me. I think that not, I mean, I fell for me. I think that not, I mean, I fell for me. I guess people would say that I had it but I don't know that I had it until I was 30 years old. And I think until I was 30 years old, that's when I realized I had the confidence and it really took me to become a facilitator, um, which I never thought I'd be a facilitator for the airline industry because facilitating kids, I'm not teaching no kids like that's crazy, but here I'm teaching adults that act worse than kids, you know, so then it gave me a lot of confidence to speak in front of peers, right? Because these were people that worked for the same company but just probably different departments. Um, to travel the world and then teach in another country like the confidence to go do that.

[17:22]  And realizing every time you do it, you're so good and everyone, you know, looks at you and tells you how good you are. Um, that kind of helped, right? How important has confidence been for you on this journey to even where you're at today?

[17:24]  Yeah, you know, I think it's always that mix of believing in yourself but also having humility at the same time and knowing that, you know, I work in an industry that people have lots of ideas about what admission should be, what marketing a university should be. And I choose to look at it in a way that is um, it's not a zero-sum game. If someone has an idea of something that we should try and do, you know, I want to have the humility to say, "Let's try that. That sounds like a really good idea." Um, but at the same time, I think, you know, I probably didn't have confidence when I was in high school and when I was growing up. Um, but something about doing well in college when I went to such a large university and, you know, made really good grades and looking around and thinking there's all these people here and you know I'm doing well here and then that behind it, you know, doing the teaching that I did, um, you know, I remember one time I was standing in front of a group of PhD chemists and we were talking about something that you probably have never heard of because this was back in the day, the file allocation table which is called the FAT table. Um, that is what early Windows and early DOS programs were based on. And I remember thinking, is he calling me fat? Like what is he saying? So you know it's finding those moments when you admit I don't know. Um, but I think that you know it is an important thing to believe in yourself and you know I was fortunate that I had people around me who also believed in me but not everyone has that and so working to be mentors to others and really seeing other people and shining that light on them and helping them know that they are, you know, that we see you and the things that you're doing I think is a really important thing for us as adults to do for others once we've, you know, landed in a successful place in our life.

[19:51]  Hey, if you're getting value from this conversation, do us a favor and hit that subscribe button. We drop episodes like this regularly and we don't want you to miss a single one. Now, let's get back to it. I agree. People ask me that all the time. I mean, I'm one of 18 kids. I told you a story of sexual abuse and adoption. Probably shouldn't be here, but people ask me that like how, why me? Like what do you think made you the successful one? And it's that I think it was people that poured into me when I was lost and I was struggling that allowed me to feel seen and told me to always remember to know my worth, right? You see the message in the back. And I would tell you it was a gut check from the same chief development officer. Still good friends with him. And last year I spoke to him and he hit me with the E-Frank. You know, sometimes we teach best what we need the most. And you've been teaching people to know their worth for so long, but when do you know yours? And I was like, damn. You know, it's like practice what you preach, right? Like, and from that moment on, I really had to practice what I preach. And it was so hard. It was very hard. But it was having that confidence that you can do it. It was knowing your worth. It was believing in yourself just like everybody else believed in you because at some point that matters the most is that you believe in you.

[21:23]  Um, so yeah, kudos to the people that have been in your life and continue to be in your life. Who are some of the mentors right now that pour into your cup?

[21:31]  Yeah, that's so great. You know, and I was just thinking as you were saying that I think it's also very easy when you're in a position of leadership. Um, you know, everyone has an opinion and you're going to get criticized. You know, there are going to be people who don't like you. Um, there are going to be push back. There's going to be, you know, changes in presidents at a university and how that's going to affect your working relationship and what you're doing in your work. And so I think it is a really great balance of, you know, it takes someone who and it took me a long time and I think, you know, part of that is as a woman, as a southerner, um, you know, I'm from Appalachia originally and so sort of that idea of being nice to everybody and wanting everyone to like you and then something sort of clicks and you're like, you know, it's okay that everybody doesn't like me. They don't have to. I just have to be me and I have to be the right me with the right values. But um, you know, my mother has been a lifelong supporter in my life and um I would say my husband is a very, very close supporter of mine as far as my career goes. He took a sort of a backseat with his career um in order for us to continue doing what is a passion. He works in education as well um so that always makes it good. Um and then I just have some other people that are just dear friends that lift me up and you know, coming here to Valparaiso, you know, it was leaving a lot of those people behind and moving further away from them and finding friends here but also recognizing when you get to be my age that it's so important to keep your friends close and trust and value them. And so, um, I'm actually leaving tomorrow. One of my friends back in Illinois, it's his birthday. So, I'm going to drive back and we're going to go to dinner, you know, because that's important to me. I didn't want to move all the way across the country because I want to keep that connection.

[23:40]  Did you say it was a he?

[23:43]  Yeah.

[23:43]  So, my best friend is a female and people don't realize that a male and a female can be best friends, right?

[23:50]  Yeah.

[23:50]  Like, talk to that. Like did you grow up with the same thing I grew up with was like how are you guys friends? You guys must like each other and it's like no this is just literally someone that when I was struggling she was also kind of ideally struggling and we were just struggling together like we were just, you know, so it was it and we're like brothers and sisters if you ask me like yeah we say friends but we're damn near family right? So did you experience some of that too?

[24:26]  Yeah. And so my best friend growing up, I mean, he lives in South Carolina now, but um the one that I was writing the stories with, um you know, still very, very close friend. We text all the time and um our moms are best friends and you know, so it's a family connection as well. His mother feels like my mother. Um you know, so I think and that's how we were. You know, people would say that sometimes, but it was like really that's like that's my brother. Like I don't even my mind doesn't even go there because I think of him like a sibling. Um yeah. And so yeah, I've just continued to, you know, have both male and female friends because I don't believe that.

[25:06]  That's so cool. You often don't see people that have that opposite sex as a best friend. I have two of them, both females, and I met them in high school to be quite frank. Um, and we did not like each other, and we probably were at each other's necks, but here we are 20 years later, we're still great friends and, you know, part of each other's families now. So, that's always cool to really see the growth on, you know, you mentioned they were with you when you were young. So, seeing that Leanne that was going through life and how she built herself to where she is today, I can imagine they're just happy friends to see you, you know, grow.

[25:40]  Um, you mentioned your husband. I want to go back to it because shout outs to him, right? It takes two to tango. And for him to just kind of be that rock for you and say, "Hey, go live your dreams." That is huge for him as well. So, I wanted to go back and make sure from man to man that I show him some love. Uh, you know, I'm pretty sure he appreciates that.

[25:58]  Um, but what are some of the underrated degrees that people think are not good or there's no jobs there? You kind of mentioned English as one. That's where I got my brain going. I've heard people think that engineering is no longer the thing because of AI, but then who's going to control the AI, right? Someone else has to control it. Do you think there's any degrees that people think there's any degrees that people don't look towards anymore because they may have this wrong impression?

[26:23]  I do. I mean, I think things are going to come back around. I was actually having a conversation Saturday with one of our computer science faculty who nationally we're seeing that just decrease significantly. Um, and I think a large part of it is AI, but when you look at the hiring practices and you look at the jobs in computer science, they're actually increasing. So what is happening in the corporate level is I think corporations are using that away as a way to, you know, sort of downsize and use AI for some of the things that were more rope practices. But there still needs to be, as you said, you know, someone at the higher level um that is able to write these programs and able to make the things work the way that they need to work. Um, you know, and I think at the end of the day, it doesn't, you know, there are some majors obviously if you major in something like nursing, it's more difficult for you to go do and be something else. Um, but most majors, you know, I just think if I look back at the path of my life and I look at some of the people who have mentored me and one that I failed to mention is the first president that I worked for, Dr. Greg Jordan. Um, and you know how my career I can look back at each job and I can see how it built me to here and I know that here is going to build me to whatever comes next if I don't retire here because I love it so much. But, you know, I think it's um there's a plan. You know, you just have to be open to what the world is going to bring to you and be smart about how you're positioning yourself. But I think a lot of those, you know, one of the smartest people that I work with, um, he developed a company that integrates AI and data to help universities understand better about what college majors are growing and shrinking. And, you know, one of the things we've not done well in higher ed is we have added on majors, but we haven't necessarily reduced majors in a sense. And so he helps with that work.

[28:36]  He's a music major, you know, he has his degree in music. Um and but this is what he's doing with his life because it's, you know, also mathematical and it's, you know, also mathematical and it's, you know, also mathematical and all of those things. So, you know, I think um there are some really, you know, especially with a liberal arts undergirding, that's what I'm passionate about is that part of it. You know, the people don't always understand especially at the 18-year-old level that, you know, liberal arts basically means the truth and freedom and I like to think of it as the truth that sets you free. So understanding, you know, how to think and how to understand the world that you're in to me is such a leg up. And even here at Valparaiso, we have engineering majors. Um, but it's based on a liberal arts core curriculum that builds into engineering rather than just starting, you know, like some schools and going in engineering all the way through. So to me, I'm also really passionate about that part of it. Um, but I, you know, I do think that, um, you asked about majors, but I also think just college in general is having a difficult time right now. Um, you know, it's being called into question, as are all of our institutions. You know, the value of the degree and, you know, we've kind of gone back and forth from everyone should go to college for free to college isn't worth it in the history of, you know, my time in the industry. And, you know, there's such great data that does show that college degrees, you are going to earn more over the course of your lifetime with a college degree, but that doesn't necessarily mean everyone needs to go to college. You know, my son is one of those people that he probably won't and that's okay. He's going to turn out just fine um because he's following his passion. And so I think that's, you know, that's the other part of it is um just really helping people find the next step for them and what makes sense. And you know, colleges to me was formative and I know that attending the university changed my life and you know changed the course of the direction that I was going in um you know and gave me a purpose, you know, a reason to get up in the morning um other than you know my family. So, um I think it's really about helping people find their path more than it is about saying college, you shouldn't go to college or whatever, you know.

[31:19]  Yeah. I think um someone painted this picture for me the other day on school. It is definitely an investment and it's better than buying a $28,000 car that loses value because when you invest in school, you'll probably see 3x or 4x return, right? Like...

[31:35]  Um, and you don't see it that way, you know, and I don't know if it's because it wasn't given to me that when I was younger, I thought I was grown and I'm going to figure it out like whatever my mindset's at. But I think it's back to painting pictures, Le, right? I think that's why you're smiling like, "Yeah, yeah, paint that picture," right? Because it's painting that picture for people.

[31:55]  You mentioned something about when you were teaching at that company, right?

[32:02]  And you said, I just made it kind of make sense when I taught it. I just wanted it to make sense. And that's the way I taught is make it make sense. So when you're talking to a student that's 18 years old, you got to dummify it. Not that they're dummies, but it's that you got to bring it to that 11th grade level because that's sometimes where people are at. We got to meet them where they're at.

[32:20]  And I think when I even say that, it brings me back to, you know, technology and AI. That's what really is doing. But I do believe that at some point we're going to see that prompt engineer role where someone has to prompt it in order to get the output. You mentioned about your friend. The reason he's so good is because he understands the prompts to get the data out.

[32:40]  Right.

[32:40]  Right. So, um, one thing you also mentioned before was, um, was it one tech...

[32:58]  High touch, high-tech.

[32:58]  Yeah. What does that actually mean in practice? Because I thought it was so good and it really relates to what we're talking about. People think it's just a buzzword.

[33:08]  Yeah. So, one of the things that I think is really important, um, you know, we work at Valparaiso to know our prospective students. You know, our admissions counselors are reaching out and we're not just asking them, "What do you want to major in?" We're asking them probing questions about their life. You know, we're asking them things like, "Why do you want to major in engineering? What about engineering is interesting to you?" Um, so we have these conversations that we're having. And then we also know based on data what they're doing. You know, we can see what pages they're landing on in our website. We can see a lot of things based on what they tell us, the forms that they fill out. Um, so all of that data is in there. Um, and we work in an industry or a world right now where everything is curated. You know, these students have grown up with Spotify playlists that are curated to their interest. You know, our Netflix landing page, my husband's and mine could not be more different. His is all action movies and World War II, and you know, mine is like shrinking and things like that. And so, you know, everything is curated. So thinking through how we can not artificially because it really comes from a heartfelt place and, um, you know, in a feeling of wanting to make sure that the students who choose to come to Valparaiso University know that we are going to get to know them, that they aren't just going to be in a class and the teacher is going to say, "Hey you there in the back with a hoodie," you know, they're going to know their name and they're going to be partially responsible for their success. So, how can we take the technology and the things that we know about them to curate and to drive the information that they may be thinking about in the college process um in a way that comes through in the mediums that they are interested in while also keeping that personal touch. And so that's what I spend a lot of my time thinking about is how can we, you know, I think good marketing is putting yourself where the other person is and think about what they are thinking about at that particular moment in their journey and then try to give them the information they need to make the decision. Um, so that's a big part of, you know, just using technology, um, but also using, um, you know, with AI coming out, a lot of people have questioned, well, are you even going to need admissions counselors anymore? Because AI can just write an email that says, "Hey, I know you're interested in playing soccer and majoring in English. You should come to admitted student day." But, you know, in there's conversations about that. My opinion is that's never going to happen, at least where I'm responsible, because it is those connections. You know, we're working to make a connection with the admissions counselor, but also helping facilitate a connection between the student and other students even before they enroll here because we know that sense of belonging is going to have a huge impact on whether or not they are successful at the university. So, um, it's just that trying to think of ways to do that every day is a part of what I get up and where my head is. So, yeah.

[36:33]  You know, you mentioned something and I used to think like this actually, Leanne, you mentioned that you're not an artist, but you mentioned about all the creative ways that you've thought of something. While you're not an artist that draws, you are an artist in different ways. And I had to realize that is no, I'm not an artist. But we think an artist is someone that paints and draws. But an artist is someone that can put something together that you know people probably didn't think it made sense, right? And a lot of times that is you because you play this marketing communication and you have to you've always been that. That's why you're so good at it. Now that I think about it from you writing these stories that you're probably making up, right? These stories you're making up when you were drawing on concrete.

[37:13]  Yeah.

[37:13]  So it's like you are an artist and sometimes we don't even realize that we have those talents because we've always been told that this is what it looks like, right? Um, and it kind of goes back to what we're talking about. We think that this is what the ideal college student looks like. And it's not, right? There's boomerangs. There's those that are first-gen. There's those that, you know, were scared but made it like an artist paints that picture. And you've painted so many pictures today that I really truly appreciate it. But I also want you to kind of go back to that little Leanne, right, that was so scared and paint that picture for her and allow her to know. Just speak to her. What are you saying to her?

[39:26]  Oh gosh. Well, you know, I think as a Southerner, we tell stories, right? So, it probably would be more of telling a story than it would be painting that picture. But I think I would tell her it's going to be okay. You know, I think that is what I would want to convey is just, you know, when you're making a decision or you're doing something that's, you know, questionable, you know, what would he say to you in that moment? Um, you know, and what would he want you to do? So...

[40:00]  Yeah, I love it. I love it. And I know your dad is hella proud of you, quite frankly. And so I'm glad that you know moments like that. I could imagine you hear stories on both sides, right? Just that's what life is. Life gives you lemons. What do you do with them? And clearly you made lemonade and now you're pouring into the next generation because realizing it was never really about us, right? It's about how do we take life and pour into our... I love that you said my son may not go to college. He's going to be completely fine. I'll tell you what, Leanne, I have maybe two classes left to finish an associate's degree, but my mindset has always been like I did not need college, right? And again, it's not for everybody, but I still actually want to finish just because I want to show my kids, hey, dad did this and dad did this. You know, don't tell me you're going to be less than. You got to go do one or the other, right? You're going to either start a business or get a job or go to school. One of those three, I would say. But um, I don't even know where I was going with this, but I'm just super excited that you just never gave up on yourself because it's so easy to give up on yourself. Um, but when you just have this passion and this grit, um, you know, and I don't know if it's the southerniness, right? We talk about the southern us. We said that most of the times because that is true. I love to tell stories and we've clearly for the last 40 minutes been telling a story. So I really appreciate it. But what can people really tap into what you guys are doing at the university level, but even are you on LinkedIn? So maybe someone wanted to just kind of reach out as an individual.

[41:30]  Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn under my name at Valparaiso University. So you can search me that way. And um, and then my email is really simple. It's leanne.hughes@valpo.edu. So if you want to reach out that way, you're welcome to do that as well. So, um, and I'm just going to want to come on the show every week because you've pumped me up so much. But it's not I mean I'm not all that. Leon, you are awesome.

[41:56]  I just love what I'm doing. I just love what I'm doing and I love this place.

[42:00]  That's it. I love it. I love that you're chasing passion and purpose. I think we said it before on our first call. The work that we do at this level of whether it's nonprofit, higher ed, healthcare is truly just passionate work, right? We love what we do. We feel like it's purposeful work as well. We're changing lives, impacting lives, lives that we may not even see that life being impacted, but we're a part of that, right? Because we've had a small conversation. So, kudos to you for what you do, Leanne. Kudos to what you guys are doing at the university level as well. Um, thank you for your time. You could be doing anything else and you spent Monday morning here with me. So, I appreciate that as well.

[42:36]  I love every minute of it.

[42:38]  Yeah, love every minute. It was great. Appreciate it.

[42:41]  Thank you for having me.

[42:42]  Of course, Leanne, thank you for coming on. Guys, if you guys are still watching, make sure that you guys do like, subscribe, and comment. These are the conversations that we have. I mean, we're talking about a time where people may see all the, you know, I guess things that are happening in our world, but there's so many good things that are happening to them and so many people that are willing to just be that piece of your journey if you're just trying to level up. All right. So, as Leanne said, even if it's not her university, her college, go, there's so much resource out there, just go take a look and see how your life also could be impacted by making an investment, not in a car, but in, you know, education. Leanne, we thank you. My name is E. Frank. We'll catch you guys in the next one.