How Gencare's Leon Grundstein Uses AI to Transform Senior Living Without Losing the Human Touch

0:00 Here
0:01 [Music]
0:16 on the hard and hustle, we love to have conversations with leaders that are just making impacts in our communities. Today we have Mr. Leon. Leon, what's up, man?
0:23 How you doing? Can you tell people where you're from? What's the organization? What do you stand for?
0:28 Yeah, I could do all that. Uh, I'm from uh originally grew up Detroit and Pittsburgh, but been living in Seattle
0:36 for, you know, 40 years now. And I'm with Denare Lifestyle. We're a senior living company that specializes
0:43 in wellness. Uh we call our program Whole Life Living and we focus on food, exercise,
0:50 mental fitness, and purpose. Um,
0:54 we're uh very proud of our uh organization and the unique things we've done or doing such as the only senior
1:02 living company in the nation that certified fully certified gluten-free.
1:07 Um, we're primarily here in the Northwest and we're excited to be on your show.
1:13 No, I'm appreciated that you guys couldn't join us in. Sorry that I'm not in my beautiful studio that you seen last time as as I was traveling, but I didn't want to give up on you. I wasn't
1:21 going to just reschedule you. Right off the uh plane, got here and we're having this conversation. And you know, ever since I left talking to you, I I tell
1:30 everybody that's in this space, there's no one doing it like Leon to know the different systems you put in place, the gluten-free, the the workout, all these
1:38 things that you understood could really uh extend someone's life. Where did that all come from, Leon?
1:45 Well, it just um I've always been into awareness on fitness. I was a uh I was a
1:52 sprinter at the University of Michigan and went did pretty well on that. But I noticed um my performance was affected
2:00 by the amount of sleep I had, my diet um and just my mental state and that kind
2:08 of carried over. I competed after college too and so I was always aware of these things and when I
2:16 evolved in my business career to senior living this awareness of physical and mental
2:24 fitness u just passed through and said you know just because you're getting older doesn't mean you shouldn't pay
2:31 attention to these things and you can age and be healthy you just don't have to you know slowly uh drift into the sunset, so to speak.
2:42 You can still improve your health,
2:44 mental health, and physical health. And I I also um compared this to going to
2:52 summer camp as a kid when I I had a great experience. So, anyhow, I'd get up with my cabin mates. we'd, you know, fix
3:02 our cabin up, socialize, go eat breakfast or and smoo over that. And then we'd go out
3:09 and we had play, free play, and we had fun. And it was, you know, you're outdoors with your buddies. And I
3:16 figured this is analogist to when you're retired, still want to go out, have fun, communicate with your buddies, you know,
3:23 you have food, you dine, and you socialize. Why not still have fun when you're retired? And yeah,
3:31 and um just because you're older doesn't mean you still don't like those those things.
3:37 Bringing it back full circle. And one cool thing you mentioned is that when people are working much harder as well that um it allows them to realize they
3:46 have a voice, right? That's one of the things that you mentioned to me is like people work out, they feel so good, they now realize they have a voice. They're fighting for what's right. I think one
3:54 thing you mentioned is something in the front of one of your your um locations.
3:58 Was it a a sidewalk or something that people were fighting for? Some of your your your um patients or something like that?
4:05 My residents? Yeah. They were u they were uh very excited about the trainers and
4:14 wanted to get in registered to have the one-on-one training as well as group training. And then um they're just
4:22 enthusiastic about uh participating in group events. um both for the socialization
4:30 and avoiding isolation and loneliness and so all the activities we do are predicated upon being engaged.
4:41 Humans are social animals. We live longer and better when we're socializing.
4:47 It's proven that you live about two and a half years longer when you're in a social environment and you're not isolated and your health um you know
4:57 doesn't deteriorate as as quickly when you're in a group of a community. How many locations do you have now?
5:05 Um we have six, but we're about ready to add a seventh and do some expansion here in the Northwest. We were very mindful in our growth, particularly during CO.
5:16 We didn't there were a lot of challenges that we didn't want to um struggle with. But now that that's pretty much gone.
5:24 We're um taking our product and going to spread the gospel here in the Northwest.
5:30 I love it, man. I I I just love the model. Like I told you, I was actually praising you. You'll probably hear on some of the conversations prior to you praising some of the things that you're
5:38 actually doing, Leon. But my whole thing is are are you entrepreneur? Is that that's what the background is? like what gets you into so many locations, you know, developing all these different
5:47 thoughts, like you have to be a creative behind all this, an entrepreneur or something.
5:52 Yeah. I I I look at myself as an entrepreneur. Um, you know, out of college, I got a a job and learned some
5:58 stuff. But then I went into buying some houses and apartments, fixing them up,
6:03 selling them. And then I moved to Seattle, got another job, and then uh went to work for a development company,
6:11 kind of learned the lay of the land. And then I started u another company developing retail, some apartments, and
6:21 then fell into senior housing. and then um was approached by the uh a large
6:29 family company, wealthy local Seattle family to start um Merryill Gardens,
6:36 which I was a founder and a partner in that. We did 27 buildings. I had to leave cuz I got custody of my kid and I
6:44 was a single parent so I just stayed local and that's why I founded uh Genare once again in an entrepreneurial bent.
6:51 So I guess I'm not thirst.
6:54 You are, man. You're on fire. And you talk about being a single father. You did mention that. What has that taught to you in life, you know, of never giving up, of resilience? I can imagine
7:03 there are some times that not always have been so easy for you.
7:06 Yeah, I I agree. And I think you've experienced similar things, so you can relate to what I'm saying. You just have
7:14 to work out a a work life balance. And sometimes you put off work to take care of your family or your kid and other
7:23 times um you have to adjust some schedules for the kid so you can earn a living and support them. Um but um turns
7:32 out I have a great relationship with my my daughter and uh I feel I made the right move. I maybe could have made more
7:40 money, but my best product is my uh kid and her family. And even now, like being I'm in a hotel,
7:49 you know, in this room, I didn't even check in yet. And I was already feeling,
7:52 you know, I have a one-year-old and a four-year-old, I almost feeling guilt,
7:55 Leon, you know, leaving the family behind, understanding I'm only here for a couple of days, understanding daddy's got to go to work. Um, my wife's a stay at home mom, and I I I just felt bad a
8:04 little bit, man. Leon, do you have any advice for me, man? Like, should I be feeling like this? Well, just call them while you're away and tell them you love them and they they like that.
8:14 Yeah. Yeah. No, I told my daughter I call her every night. She says, "Dad, so I'm not going to see you for a couple days." I'm like, "I'm I'm calling you every night. You're going to still see me. I'm I'm going to say good night cuz
8:22 that's what I do every night at home. I I'm usually the one to tuck her in and give her that play with her a little bit before, you know, she really goes to bed." But, uh, no, man. I I love that
8:29 you were able to do all this while still being a single father. So many people would actually quit, right? they they they but you decided no, I'm just going
8:37 to pivot. Um, where do you get all this grit, resilience from? Is this something that was just kind of embedded in you as a young kid? You had to learn this trial
8:45 and error like where does it all come from?
8:49 Well, I that's a good question. It's just um I figured I got to do what I I got to
8:57 do. Life's good. Um, you just like you said, pivot and uh and adapt. And u I'm
9:06 a happy guy and I I don't, you know, the glass is always half full, not half empty. And I love that.
9:13 Just stay positive.
9:15 What are three leadership skills that you continue to pour into others that maybe were pouring into you and you just want to continue to to to give back?
9:23 Well, first of all, the most important thing in life and business is people. I can't y
9:30 I can't do anything be successful or achieve my goals unless I have the right people around me. And I had to learn
9:39 that. Um it isn't all me. It's the people you have around them and the quality of the people and the
9:48 commitment to what you know you're doing and they believe in it and always uh
9:54 nurturing and reinforcing them and they have reinforced me too. So uh that's
10:01 people are the most important product um trying to stay current in ideas and and
10:08 what generational iterations are going through. so you can adapt and and meet
10:15 those needs. And then um third, just trying to be forthright and honest with what I do,
10:24 whether it's good or bad, is just be upfront.
10:29 Is there any leadership skill you had to learn the hard way?
10:32 Yeah. how to how to relate to people and when when to push buttons and when not to and
10:40 um just the best way to relate to people and understanding each individual's
10:48 personality and what makes them what makes them tick.
10:52 I can relate to all of them. I think as leaders those are one of the biggest things is really finding people. I I always like to call it dating. Not everyone you're going to hire or bring to your team is going to be the forever.
11:03 Um they may be there for a season or for a reason, but understanding when it's time to let them go. And I think a lot of leaders sometimes forget how to let people go. And understanding for
11:11 rightfully so, sometimes if we want to grow, we got to let those people go.
11:14 Whether it's our friends, sometimes employees, sometimes partners. I've been an entrepreneur just like yourself and and had to walk away from partners,
11:20 right? Had to close establishments. Um sometimes family, you know, it's just this the sacrifice that we got to really make. But I love that you've never
11:29 allowed it to stop you, man. Look what you've really been doing and you're still growing. What a blessing it is.
11:34 And is there anything on the horizon when we think about AI where we can actually implement AI into what you're already doing? Have you guys tapped into that? Are you guys looking into that space?
11:42 Yeah, we're we're looking into AI now,
11:44 particularly on the websites and when people are searching for places to live.
11:50 We're starting to use AI uh to communicate with them when they go on the website or the the search. um
11:57 ultimately they would come in the building and see a real person but uh to answer questions uh we're using AI and
12:06 we're also starting to use AI for analytics because it can gather data real fast and u and give you feedback
12:15 quickly in a very coherent fashion. Um that's how we're using AI. And then
12:23 programmatically we're focusing a lot now on uh some cancer survivors on um for example women.
12:35 One in eight women will get breast cancer and half the women who get breast cancer are 65 and older which is our age cohort. So they'll have some procedure.
12:46 So what we're doing is looking at um how to post um surgery how to uh help
12:56 women recover because a lot of times with surgery they get scar tissue which is uh affects their posture affects
13:03 their uh uh shoulder mobility and you know it can be painful and constrictive.
13:10 So what we're doing is working with our trainers to develop stretching and strengthening exercises to help people
13:18 recover. And actually 1% of the male population has uh gets breast cancer too. So we have a few um men who suffer
13:27 from the same issues. So, we're always trying to be uh creative and adaptive.
13:33 Um think of new ways to help people stay healthy and relieve pain and keep their mobility.
13:40 If the Heart and Hustle podcast has ever sparked any idea or made you think differently, do us a favor. Make sure to guys share this, post it on LinkedIn, or
13:49 even text that nonprofit friend that you just have. Whatever works. This is what keeps the conversation going and allows us to just grow this community together.
13:59 Seriously, we appreciate you.
14:04 I'm very fascinated to know that you guys are using AI as much as you are. A lot of leaders are afraid of it. I think it's like the the internet boom. I think
14:12 it's like the c social media boom. When did you realize that AI was actually as impactful as it is? because it seems like you're putting it in so many different places that are really needed,
14:20 you know, where people can still do what they love, but we can delegate some of the automations and the things that we don't like so we can do more of the things that we went to school for that
14:28 we we feel that brings us peace and fills our cup. Where do you get into this AI space? Who's teaching you this?
14:35 Or did you just realize there was a wave here and I got to ride it?
14:37 Well, I think it was a wave. I got to ride it. I went to several conferences and they're all talking about AI and they said, "Well, if you aren't starting
14:46 AI or involved in AI now, you're behind." Yeah.
14:50 So, um I had to start running to catch up. So, we we uh we um
14:58 started implementing it over the last six months and uh we'll continue to use it as uh uh things evolve. Um, we're
15:08 actually looking at some u additional marketing tools that use an AI
15:15 bot or a human replication uh on a video that talks to the indivi
15:23 individual that's inquiring and uh it's pretty amazing amazing stuff. Leon, man, I'm I'm excited to hear that.
15:31 You don't know how many people I speak to and there was like, you know, AI um older people can't use AI or, you know,
15:38 AI is it's they're scared of it for, you know, all these different things I hear,
15:43 man. But to know where you're at and if you had to rate it one out of 10, what what is your grade? You've experienced a little bit of it at least.
15:51 Well, I think it's being accepted um more and more. Um, we haven't been u uh,
16:01 as far as we know, we haven't been kicked off from anybody looking at our site because we're using AI.
16:08 I think it's becoming more accepted and and the senior population is realizing they have to adapt to it.
16:16 And a lot of times also the the family member which is a younger person their 40s and 50s
16:23 are the initiators and they're very u very open to using it and adapting to it.
16:31 What do you think it's it's going to happen with a shortage of um especially in that home care um living where
16:39 there's a shortage right we we're going through a silver tsunami. Are you guys preparing for that? Is this something that you guys are been afraid of or did you are you figuring it out as we go?
16:48 Are you pivoting? This is why we have AI. Is that why the new buildings are coming up? Like what is your thoughts on this whole silver tsunami that's happening with the shortage of everything?
16:56 Well, I think the um artificial intelligence is getting going to be more used in monitoring
17:05 people and whether they have fall risk or there's something happened in their apartment that needs attention from a live person.
17:13 um the AI would be able to talk to a person. See, it notices if you haven't been active for, you know, a period of
17:22 time and say, "Miss Jones, are you okay?" And either they'll respond and say, "I need help." And we'll send a
17:29 live person up there. Or if they don't respond, then the AI will alert um a live staff person to go check on them.
17:39 And it's it's become uh a vehicle to be more responsive to needs if someone
17:46 falls or has an incident uh in the room without being invasive. Um meaning uh
17:52 compromise of privacy. Um and that's something that helps u the shortage of staffing because before
18:01 staff person had to physically check on a room all the time and that was kind of a hit and miss process whereas the
18:08 sensors on an AI and the communication the talking that an AI can do and
18:15 respond to um just give a broader uh coverage of of any potential negative incidents or even positive that happened to a resident.
18:26 And with your experience on on AI, what do you tell other leaders that are afraid um of using it or scared that for
18:34 privacy or because you're losing losing the human centric feel? What is your your words to those individuals that are still skeptical?
18:42 Well, I say um you know, you better go on get on board because it's not going away. It's becoming catch up, right?
18:51 Yeah. better run, catch up or get out of the way, right? So,
18:56 no, man. I I truly love it. Do Do you have a story that really resonates with you that reminds you of why you do what you do? Like creating these centers,
19:03 creating them, understanding the health and wellness piece because a lot of people don't even think that far. Um, is there a story that comes to you like,
19:11 man, I'm happy that this is the model that we went with? Yeah, I mean, there's several stories.
19:16 So, we have one um I'll be brief so as not to bore people, but we had this woman move in one of our buildings and
19:24 she was overweight. She was diabetic and she's just uh had some surgery for cancer and she moved into our building,
19:33 embraced our diet, embraced our exercise program, and she lost a bunch of weight
19:41 because she was using our dietary options. She became non-diabetic.
19:48 She was part of our walking club, so she built up her strength and endurance. Um,
19:54 she could only walk maybe a quarter mile at first, but now she's walking three to five miles a day and wow,
20:02 she's on our website and she even quotes saying, "If I hadn't moved in here, I'd be with the Angels right now." And then
20:09 then we had another incident where we we specialize in some Parkinson's um people. And one woman moved in, her
20:18 goal was to walk again. She was wheelchair bound. We put her on a fitness program with our trainers. Um,
20:24 she started walking in a pool, riding a stationary bike. She graduated to a walker and then to a cane and then she
20:33 was able to walk about 100 ft on her own, which just thrilled her. Can't cure the disease, but we can certainly u stop
20:42 its uh progression and keep keep people moving and and uh have hope.
20:49 Leon, how cool to hear those stories,
20:51 man, and know that you you've created something that people are experiencing change in their lives, right? Planting seeds all around the place while you
20:59 can't physically see every single person. You know that you have great people, you have uh great facilities. Um I ask you, man, you
21:08 talked about working out. What are you benching nowadays? Well,
21:14 you're going to embarrass me now, but you know, I'm you know, I've never been a big heavyweight guy. I'm not that big a guy,
21:23 but you know, I lift weights. I could probably bench 90 pounds. And uh Hey, man, just some people don't do
21:31 nothing, Leon. Some people don't do nothing. Yeah.
21:34 So, yeah, man. I turn eight, I still see you, you know, benching uh and just active. I think for me, Yeah. I think that's it. I am starting.
21:42 I've kind of always been an on and off in my life. I'm not no big guy either, but um realizing that I'm 35 years old.
21:49 I got kids. I got to chase these kids around. So, I started working out, man.
21:53 But kind of to what you mentioned, I did see the change. And I've always seen the change when you start working out. How really helps the mental health. And that's one of the things I really love
22:01 about working out. It truly changes the mental health. So, people that that want to change, start there. Start just doing something uncomfortable. And it is just
22:10 waking up in the morning, taking that that walk. Sometimes maybe one one lap around the neighborhood becomes two laps, becomes three laps. And you're seeing with your own individuals, you know, th those own um patients that are,
22:21 you know, changing their lives because of what you're doing. What where where the locations located? We didn't talk about locations. Where are you all located? Um, we're we're located
22:30 specifically in the Seattle metropolitan area, far south as Tacoma and some
22:38 locations between Seattle and some cities between Seattle and Tacoma. And then we go all the way up to north to Everett. So, we're on the Interstate 5
22:47 corridor. I can drive to any of my buildings within an hour and keep uh keep an eye on things. And
22:55 actually staff and residents like to see see me in the building and because they know I'm care. I'm not just, you know,
23:03 that I care and I'm not just some guy sitting in an office with a coat and tie. So Yeah. Yeah. So you're still hands on?
23:10 Yeah, I'm still hands on. Like to see and touch the buildings, make sure the energy is good, people are happy. We're
23:19 staying true to the mission and commitments that we've made. And uh always got to remind people. We have a
23:27 saying in the company called repeat the beat because we got to keep reminding each other what we're here for. And also
23:36 staff change from time to time whether they're growing and moving somewhere else or whether they have to move on. So you always have new people coming in as
23:44 well and you got to train them and teach them the philosophy. And are you getting the kids involved?
23:51 kids one day taking over the company or they just still figuring out life out there trying to find what they love to do first? Well,
23:58 kids are not going to take over the company. So, I'm I'm going to I have a succession plan in place and I have some
24:06 very committed people that will will carry on the uh what we started. Legacy.
24:11 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Man, the legacy will continue. And is your your plan to expand nationwide or just more on the West Coast? Well, I I personally think it's a regional business.
24:22 My expansion plans are in Washington state, Oregon, and Idaho, and keep it regional. Um, there's preferences every
24:31 region. It's also a control.
24:36 I want to maintain the quality of our product. And if you get too big in my
24:42 mind, you lose the energy and control that you want to have in your buildings
24:49 and this whole life living. And um my goal was never to be the biggest guy,
24:56 you know, have a certain volume of course because economy is scale, but I don't want to lose lose uh direction on
25:04 what we're providing and rightfully so. I am a big believer.
25:08 I used to work for a franchise. They had 140 stores. I was with them when they had 80 stores and um felt mom and pop at 80. But I felt like the more they
25:16 continued to grow, they lost that mom and pop. It became very corporate, you know. Yeah. Now the the the owner, you
25:24 know, that you seen all the time, he was too far in reach now. You know, you had to go speak to somebody else, even get to him. And it does. It definitely changes
25:31 the whole thing, the whole business model because someone else is running the show and they're implementing their their values. So, I love that you said,
25:38 "No, I want to own this and just make sure we continue to live those values."
25:42 Very important when companies live their values, it is very very important because when you when you you don't just want to talk about them, you actually want to make sure that you're actually
25:50 living by them. And it looks like you guys not just talk about it, but you live by them. I ask you, Leon, last question here. If you can kind of go back in time, speak to that young Leon
25:59 that's just kind of getting started into the business world. What is your advice to that young Leon?
26:05 Well, uh, once again, go back and find the right people. Uh, learn it earlier.
26:12 It took me a while. And, you know, I had some experiences that were learning experiences. And I wish I would have
26:21 understood that earlier rather than just focus on being technically correct and technically accurate because even though
26:30 that's important, you can't be successful unless you have the right people. And life would have been a
26:37 little easier if I had known that or learned it earlier. I'm a big firm believer though, Leon,
26:44 I'm pretty sure you are as well, that we have to learn these things though, man,
26:46 to be where we're at today, right? Like those L's, they're not losses. is there are lessons in our lives and in that moment we don't get it you know but I'm
26:54 so thankful for you know seeing that partnership didn't work out I'm so thankful for having to close down
27:01 my first you know cafe downtown Orlando and the moment I wasn't okay at the moment I'm like there's no way that I'm going to do this but realizing how far
27:09 I've come you know all these years later but no it it is a good one it is surroundings of people even now 35 years old maybe I would say a year and a half
27:17 ago I had to learn that too that um those friends that are that I was talking to on every single day sometimes intentionally they're kind of dimming
27:25 your light and and you know making it seem like there's no way you can do that or oh how's your small business doing right and it's like come on man speak
27:32 some some life into what I'm doing here so respectfully so you definitely got to cut those those people off um I love that man where can people find more of you Leon more of the the the
27:41 organization where you guys located are you on on LinkedIn if people want to tap into you yeah we are LinkedIn we're on um you on Facebook, we're on uh our own website,
27:52 we we post on X as well, and we use all the social media. And I just want to make one other comment based on
28:01 learning. Um it's interesting. I remember my mistakes more than my successes. Yes,
28:11 they seem to stick in my mind and that's what I really really learned from and what resonates for me. Um yeah,
28:21 I don't know about I give you one. Yeah, I give you one actually that just happened recently.
28:25 So, in the same hotel that I'm in, I was here two weeks ago and um I've always had this dream. I'm a wrestling nerd. I might have told you that last time we spoke. I'm a wrestling nerd. Love
28:33 wrestling. And two years ago when I decided to just really come out the wrestling closet and start a wrestling community, I was going streaming,
28:40 building a brand around it, I said one day I want to interview wrestlers. So on a Sunday night I get a call to be in Boston, which is where I'm located now,
28:47 to be in Boston um within two days. So I buy all this equipment, right? Cuz I have a at home studio, but when it comes to mobile, I didn't have everything. So
28:55 I'm buying all this. I get into Boston on a Tuesday night. No hotel booked.
28:59 Leon, get to uh you know, my hotel. I take all the stuff out the box that I bought brand new that I'm having to test the night before. I set up for the interview the day after, really excited.
29:10 And what happens was that um at the highest of my highs, I hit that low because I have a standard and my audio
29:17 wasn't recorded the way that I wanted to. So even though we had the audio, it wasn't to standard of what I expect of
29:24 myself. So the next day, I'm broken. I feel this this like knot in my chest, man. I feel like a failure. I felt like,
29:32 oh my god, how this one chance, but mind you, before I even left the building,
29:36 the God loved that I came with cameras and mics and even though I I couldn't set up cuz I just rushed here today, but with cameras and mics and all these different things. And he already gave me
29:43 an opportunity to come and do today before I ever left. Why? Because the way that we showed up. But that failure, right, it was it was a rookie mistake, but it was a failure I would never make.
29:52 But I learned from it. And sometimes we have to make those those mistakes. We learn from them,
29:57 right? That's how we become better versions of ourselves. Not only that,
30:00 but we get to pass on as well to others like, "Hey, don't do this cuz I remember when I did this." Yeah. We're now as leaders, we're educators as well, right?
30:07 We got to continue to educate the next generation. So, all these things that happened to us when we failed, we remember them because we are who we are
30:16 because of those mistakes, because of those losses. No, that was really good,
30:19 man. I I let you actually brought that up. um because we all experience it and some so many times and that's one of the things I had to I had to pray you know
30:26 that moment but realizing look how far I've gotten I'm going to let this one moment hold me back you know uh and had to remember
30:35 that it was it was a lesson you know we're not going to make that rookie mistake again so I love that you mentioned that Leon I can only imagine you had a lot of those as well huh yeah I got a lot of scars I got a lot of
30:44 scars hey that's why that's why we entrepreneurship is not for the weak I always say entrepreneurship is not for the week. You got to have tough skin.
30:52 Well, Leon, we thank you so much, man,
30:54 for this conversation. Sorry I couldn't be in the studio, but hopefully we get to do this again in the studio with a better camera. I can't stand this. This is This is why I got to get good
31:02 cameras. I should have used my phone like you. Even your phone has a better camera than this laptop. Look at that.
31:08 Leon, I appreciate you. My name is I appreciate you having me on your podcast and I really enjoyed meeting and chatting with you.
31:17 Brother, my name is Era. This is Leon.
31:19 We appreciate you guys. We'll see you on the next one.