Why 70% Graduation Rates Are Failing Higher Ed | Dean Kahler

[0:00]  If I had someone come mow my lawn and they said, "Hey, mission accomplished because they mowed 70% of it," I wouldn't be happy. And so, why should we set that as, you know, something that we're happy with or that, you know, is good enough? Um, higher ed has to be better than that. And I think that's something that institutions are really, really working hard at. We're building applications using AI and we're putting those into our business operations, and we're trying to become more efficient and save time and save funding here at our university by incorporating AI into everything that we do.

I hire really amazing people and surround myself with them, and you know good leaders do this all the time. Then empower them to be able to be all that they truly can be, whether it's with AI or whatever. Have them realize their full potential and serve them, okay? Because they're going to then rise to the highest level that they potentially can get. And a leader wants to lead them, you know, to be the greatest that they can be.

Welcome back to another episode here on the Heart and Hustle podcast. Our next guest, Dean, you said the goal isn't just to enroll students. It's to help them complete whatever success actually looks like for them. In a world where people are questioning whether college is even worth it anymore, how do you redefine what success in higher education actually means? Dean.

[1:36]  Yeah. Um, you know, I think everybody has their own learning objective, you know, whatever that is. Some people want to take a physical fitness class, they want to learn how to dance or maybe they want to learn how to fly cast or whatever. And so, um, you know, it depends on their objective. If they want to, um, you know, learn a particular thing, that's great. It may be one course. It may be continuing on for four years to get a bachelor's degree, a master's degree, a PhD, go to medical school, or law school. It just depends on each individual person's journey and their experiential journey that they're looking for in their education that they want to get.

[2:14]  I love it, D. I've been talking to so many leaders in the space and universities, and I always love to ask, what was the first job you had at the university? Not so much this, but just working in the college. What was that first role?

[2:25]  Yeah. Yeah. I was, you know, I started off working as a graduate assistantship and I had a couple of graduate assistantships. I was a teaching assistant for a little while. My favorite opportunity was with what turned out to be my mentor, and he actually kind of mentored me and invited me to come to the admissions office. I was their methods research person. I did statistics and I did a little coding for them, and Roland was a great mentor for me. He was the one that introduced me to what my career ultimately ended up being in the enrollment management area. So yeah, it was my first job. It was a long time ago.

[3:11]  and man, yeah, I'm not going to ask you how long, but I will ask you and hopefully my memory served me well. I know you talked about you moved around a lot. You were the first in your family to pursue college and then you dropped out. What was actually going on during that period of your life? Because you go back and now you're working at the school making sure that other people, you know, pick back up where they left off.

[3:32]  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. Um, so I was the first traditional age, kind of, you know, straight out of high school, go to college. You know, my father went to college while he was in the military, and he was going part-time and it was great for the military. They provided that opportunity for him. And so we're so grateful for that. Um, but I went to college straight out of high school. I went away a couple of states from where my parents were living. And um, yeah, I was really kind of lost and I wasn't directed into something that I thought, you know, really was a fit for me. And, you know, back then I don't think we had quite the academic advising support that we have at institutions now.

[4:20]  If it was there, I wasn't aware of it, and I got distracted with a lot of other things, and so I ended up leaving college for a little while and moved back to the Chicagoland area, worked at a country club, and you know, I thought that that fast buck, that immediate gratification of getting a paycheck, you know, I got lured away with that. And so I ended up learning that that journey was not quite the direction that I wanted to go and so had to readjust.

That's it, man. Pivot in life. It's okay. Exactly. Pivot.

[4:50]  Yeah. Um, and you know, I think I told you I'm that gentleman that has two classes remaining to get that associate's degree. And, you know, one day I say it all the time, one day I'm going to go back and get it. I've actually went and tried already twice and I got the credits down from, you know, like four classes or two classes. And then I was working for the airline industry and they were paying my way. So, I was actually going to get a bachelor's because they're going to pay a bachelor's.

[5:17]  Mhm.

[5:18]  I tell you what, as soon as I started doing it, I'm like, why the heck am I doing this again? Like, it became... And then I felt like I was locked into this job, but I really didn't like the job, but I was trying to finish school. And I was like, you know what? I can always go back. So, I am definitely... I understand the pivoting, right? And is it okay to take a break, but go back and finish what it is. And what's so cool is that you guys have actually seen an increase over the last 10 years in enrollment, which doesn't happen by accident, Dean. I mean, you're the man behind it. What do you attribute the momentum to?

[5:47]  You know, we at the University of Idaho have an amazing team. We truly have an amazing team that has been working hard to continue to grow, and our objective has been to grow our enrollment to, you know, eventually get to a stable spot and then maintain that enrollment. We have so many colleges and universities in the nation that are merging with other schools or they're completely shutting the doors. I mean, we're seeing the headlines. You know, on average, a school a week is closing down. And so, we're really fortunate at the University of Idaho that we have an amazing leadership team here. Great president. Great team on the enrollment management side. All of our team is just pulling hard in working on that.

But I think that we're focusing on, you know, really what the student is looking for. And um, I think that's terribly important today in our industry. We've got to make sure that we stay relevant, that we're attractive to students. Your story is a really great story that hits the mark. Why is the student wanting to invest in their education? That can be a long-range investment and it can be pricey. We know that. And um, why bother with that if the experience isn't going to be relevant to them if they're not being prepared for a skill set or competencies that they need in order to go into the industry?

Um, and so our institution I think has really doubled down on that and worked hard at trying to figure out how do we make this a relevant experience for students so that when they go out into the world, not that we're not in the world, but you know when they go out and they move away from the campus or their education, what skill sets are they going to be able to apply and what is that industry going to want from them? And are we preparing that student for that employer to be happy with that student and the skill set that they bring? We've been working at that. Our experiential learning priorities that we have in our strategic plan are important and we know that that's something that we've got to do to help our students actually succeed in the world.

And so, you know, students like you, we want to make sure that you've got that skill set that you value and that gives you something that you can go out there and use in a practical way.

[8:05]  Well, you could tell just the passion, Dean, and your role isn't just getting the students in the door. It's making sure they actually succeed, as you mentioned, once they're there. What does the mission actually accomplish look like for you and your team when you say, "Hey, we did it." Is it just getting people in the door? Is it them coming back saying, "Hey man, I finished that degree." What is the mission?

[8:24]  Yeah. Yeah. Um, so I mean obviously we got to get them here. Uh, you know, and it's a cycle. If we have great successful students that are finishing their learning objective, whatever that is at the university, and then they're going out and they're talking about us and they're saying, "Hey, this was a great experience. It prepared me well. Look at my earnings that I'm getting. You know, my early mid-career salary is reflective of the education experience I have." Then they're going to, by word of mouth, be talking us up and they're going to share with others and people are going to notice and they're going to say, "Hey, I want to go to that school. I want to go participate or I need an education also because that's going to help me in some way just like my friend or my buddy or my friend's children."

And that is important success for us. If we don't have that success, then our recruitment engine, you know, fails. And so getting them here, having them be successful while they're on campus, um that first to second year retention rate, making sure that they have a great transition and then ultimately graduating, uh we got to make sure that we do that. I think it's interesting in higher ed that we are counting six-year graduation rates for a bachelor's degree and we're measuring them and you know we're saying, "Hey, you know, 60, 70, 80% is kind of what the national... what some school may say that they're at 60%."

And so, um, and I guess I look at that and I think, you know what, that's not good enough. We need students to be graduating at a higher level if they're investing that amount of money. Um, you know, if I had someone come mow my lawn and they said, "Hey, mission accomplished because I mowed 70% of it," I wouldn't be happy. And so, why should we set that as, you know, something that we're happy with or that, you know, is good enough? Um, higher ed has to be better than that. And I think that's something that institutions are really working hard at.

And I think you guys are also working up against people just kind of the debate that's growing saying about the ROI and college degree, right? Why has that conversation you think gotten so loud and is a criticism kind of you think fair?

[10:31]  Yeah, you know, I think that people are looking at, you know, maybe some of the things that I just shared with you. You know, if our graduation rate isn't, you know, 90 to 100%. If we are having people leave our college with, you know, with some debt in their hands and they don't have that diploma, they don't have that learning objective accomplished, whatever that's going to be, then um, that's... they're not happy. Okay. And we know that those stories get out there.

Um, and we also know that there's folks that get degrees and, you know, there are those cases where people get tremendously in debt and then they're having a hard time, you know, getting a job that is going to be able to manage that debt load. And so those kinds of stories are, you know, really sensational out there and I feel for those particular individuals.

Um, but I think that, you know, the conversation about whether or not, um, you know, this is a good ROI, I think is also incredibly strong for people to realize that, yeah, there's going to be those stories of people that graduate with debt or don't graduate and they didn't finish the degree, but the majority, a huge number of them are actually saying that yes, this was worth it and um, I'm glad that I invested in that degree.

And you know, I think there's more of those individuals who are saying that there's a benefit than those who are not. And you look at the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the earning power for someone with a college diploma is much higher than somebody without one. So yeah,

[12:00]  I always think it's a... everything you just mentioned is also sometimes a lack of just feeling that we know, like resources, right? Just a lack of information. Um, and I love to bring this up because I was one of those. It's like the FAFSA issue, you know, like how that could really be the thing that holds somebody back because they feel like this is just too much for me.

Um, are you seeing that as well? Like how are people kind of managing that? Like if people have those questions, are they able to reach out? Who are they able to reach out to?

[12:32]  Yeah. So, um, at almost every single university you have a financial aid team and they really, really are interested in helping, you know, the families and our students navigate, you know, the financial aid kind of picture. And admittedly it has been very, very complex. You know, we just went through a couple of years ago a FAFSA simplification kind of process, but I would say that, um, you know, there's a lot of individuals that still are kind of curious and trying to figure out how can we use financial aid to offset the price tag, you know, to go to a college or university.

And I think that colleges need to do a really good job of, you know, highlighting that, hey, here's our sticker price. Um, but you might qualify for this scholarship or you might qualify for this grant. And um, I think a lot of students don't realize that, yeah, there's a sticker price there, but the reality is that their net price can be whittled down quite significantly.

And, um, you know, I was just talking to an individual, yeah, a family yesterday, and sure enough, um, they were unaware. They thought that the sticker price was what they're going to have to pay. And that's sticker shock. You know, that I can completely feel for them. But when we're able to sit down with them and say, "Hey, you know what? You're going to get this scholarship and you're going to get this one and you're going to get this discount and you know, you filed the FAFSA and you may be able to get some additional grant money from the federal government or whatever, then that debt load really looks a lot different for them.

And you know, the family walked away, you know, thinking, "Oh gosh, I really can do this and this is doable." In the state of Idaho, our state government offers, you know, an opportunity grant or a launch grant. And that's launch grants $4,000 for tuition per year for the first two years of college. A student can go to a community college. The price tag for tuition alone at a community college in the state of Idaho is below that $5,000 mark.

And so our students in the state of Idaho can get an associate degree on the backs of the Idaho government. And so people don't realize that, yeah, college can be expensive, but there are programs there that can help them out. We've got to do a better job of helping them navigate that process.

Um, and I think that when people talk about, yeah, the cost of education has gone up and gone up and outpaced inflation, I think we also need to focus on the net price. Okay. What are the students? What are they actually paying? That's a sticker price. Um, and maybe some people are paying that, but I think a lot of them are not paying that. They're getting a discounted rate.

[15:03]  I got it. And do you think there's like... you just mentioned um people just not knowing, right? There's so many programs. There's so much help out there. Um, how do we get that message out? Like,

[15:15]  you know, I mean, I think that's the biggest issue is maybe that's the bottleneck. And you think that's what it is? I think that I think there's something there. I say to my peers all the time, we have got to do a better job. Um, you know, we've got a lot of individuals out there, they're advocating that college is too expensive and you know, the ROI is not worth it, etc. Don't go into debt.

Um, but I think that the institutions, universities, and colleges need to advocate for themselves, too. And they need to be able to do that. And so, um, you know, every year I'm out on the road, you know, giving that message to students. And so, you know, I talk to about, you know, between five and 7,000 students every year and give that message. I put the numbers up on the board and I point out to them that, hey, don't believe everything that you hear.

Let's do some critical thinking and let's evaluate this, you know, in a very smart way because you could be walking away from some really great opportunities that as a citizen of the state of Idaho, you have that ability to do that. And those programs, they're out there everywhere. I was in Kentucky and Keys program, same kind of program. Students can, you know, fund their education.

Um, you know, in Tennessee, you have free education for students in the community colleges. Uh, you know, there's states that are doing that and we need to make sure that those students and their families are aware that those programs are available and um, don't take, you know, just you know, on face value what you hear or what you're seeing on TV or you're reading on, you know, in the press because there's probably more to the story.

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Okay, you're doing some amazing things here, man. But even more amazing that I also enjoy, Dean, and I love that we're tapping into a lot of these things was, and I actually didn't know this was a thing. I went to the high school. Um, I think I told you I was the president of the high school foundation. And here I am trying to use my chatbot, my AI. That is my best friend. And I said I'm realizing they're actually banning it in schools, man. But you told me that.

[17:29]  No, man. I'm in.

[17:29]  Hey, why is ignoring AI the big mistake right now?

[17:32]  Yeah. Gosh, AI, it is a hot thing. I mean, we're out there every day I'm seeing something about AI on the news or whatever. And you know it's a fascinating kind of world and it's important for us to acknowledge and to embrace and I think we need to all understand what the capabilities and capacities are of it.

Um, there's so much we could talk about in AI. But I think in education that um there's so many people that are not quite sure. They haven't understood it, you know, fully. And I don't know that any of us are going to ever understand it fully because it never sleeps and it's constantly learning. I've got to repower, you know, for about seven hours every night.

[18:22]  AI just keeps spinning forward and so I think that people need to understand it. And um, they're banning it from the schools. Um, you know, and they're saying, "Hey, we can't use AI." You know, they're people are saying you can't use it to write papers. And I think that we got to figure out where the guard rails are on it. And we have to be able to better understand where is it going to be a really great tool for us and where are there some risks and you know and we need to be able to understand that and we are... we haven't even been able to write policies to keep up with um, you know, the advancements in AI.

Oh my gosh, a month ago we didn't have Claude, you know, Opus 4.6 fix and you look at the coding capability and what's going on with AI now and we were working on putting some governance and some policies in place but AI is going so much faster than we can write those kind of policies and those kind of approaches that we've just got to do a better job of understanding what it can do in the capacities. It's a powerful tool. We all know that and um we want to make sure that um when in the education field that students know how to use those tools appropriately.

We don't want them to be shying away from them. And so at the University of Idaho, we've actually um our president, he incorporated AI into all of the pillars of our strategic plan. And that's I think really exciting and really smart. Our students are going to come to this university and they're going to get a great education, but we're also going to teach them how to embrace this technology and um you know use it in their particular fields and I think that that's going to push these students forward so fast that um I am really excited about it and I have... I've also tried to lean in on this and try to learn about it and so we're building applications using AI and we're putting those into our business operations and we're trying to become more efficient by incorporating AI into everything that we do.

So, it's an amazing tool and um I'm pretty excited about seeing where we go next with that.

[20:25]  Oh, no, man. I've been invested for some years now.

[20:28]  Um so, I say I'm probably ahead of the game a little bit, but I remember when someone told me about it, it was almost four or five years ago and I'm like, "Yeah, I'm not using it." But when I started to use it, I realized I use it every single day. And it's not that is doing the job for me, but allows me to really do the job so much faster.

And it's always funny like I work with the board, you know, older crowd and I'm like we could literally ask it anything because that's what I've done is I've created it, you know, you could ask it anything and it just knows and it has this conversation and we can put it on tone on brand.

Um, but I love that you said, "Yeah, let's teach the kids how to do it." Because let's be honest, every single job out there is going to be using AI. And to me, I don't think that we're going to be losing our jobs to AI. I think we're going to be losing our jobs to people that understand AI, how to prompt AI, how to develop AI.

So, yeah, if our colleges can get into that space, then guess what? Now, now we're talking, right? We're really meeting people where they're at.

[21:28]  Yeah. I had a staff member who we were doing some AI kind of exploration in the office a week ago and um he said, "Oh my gosh, my job is gone. I am now outdated." And I said, "Oh man, you're shortchanging yourself. What you need to do is you need to figure out with your skill set, which is amazing skill set. You need to figure out how you take AI into your current work and adjust and you know and figure out how to prompt it."

And he actually said, "Yeah, I guess I need to become a prompt engineer." And I was like, exactly! You need to figure out how to take your job and prompt AI to be able to do your job better and that's how you need to start thinking.

And so I agree, there are going to be some jobs that yeah sure maybe those are going to maybe be gone or maybe they're going to have to be adjusted, but I don't see in education any replacement of people. I see changes in roles, including mine. I mean, my role has changed just in the last couple of months about how I work because of AI.

And that's where we need to stay educated. And we need to teach our students how to do that now so that they're ready to go out into the workforce and be able to, you know, work alongside of the technology that we have out there.

[22:50]  I love it. I love it. I love the type of leader you are and I want you to kind of make a case really quick because you describe yourself as a servant leader. Some people hear that and probably think a little soft, Dean, but you are... your argument is actually one of the most powerful leadership models there actually is. I want you to kind of make that case for those that are listening.

[23:08]  Yeah. You know, I think that, you know, leadership is... you need to be firm. Okay. You've got to have a strong spine. You have to be able to make some hard calls occasionally, okay? And that is so important. But, you know, more importantly, you have to have compassion and you have to understand who you're working with. If you are leading people, then um they're looking for a whole lot of different things.

And um I believe that as a leader that I hire really amazing people and surround myself with them. And you know, good leaders do this all the time. Um, and then empower them to be able to be all that they truly can be, whether it's with AI or whatever. Have them realize their full potential and serve them, okay? Because they're going to then rise to the highest level that they potentially can get.

And a leader wants to lead them, you know, to be the greatest that they can be. In return, that'll pay off for the institution. And um I want that team to understand that that's my role is I serve them and I want to break down the obstacles and hurdles. I want to try my very best to do what I can do so that they can do their jobs exceptionally well.

Um, without them I'm nobody. I really would not be able to grow this enrollment at this institution without this brilliant team that we have here. And so, um, how do I serve them to help them do their jobs exceptionally well? Do leaders have visions?

Yeah, of course. Okay. Yeah, we've got to kind of keep all the team together. The leader on a football team calls a play and then everybody else then goes and they execute and they do their brilliant things that they do. Okay. You know, leadership in higher education is the same way. You know, you've got someone that's calling the shots and making, you know, leadership or strategic direction decisions.

Um, but the team behind that person is really truly the execution people. And um, I learned that a long time ago. I'm still not perfect at it by any means. Gosh, oh my gosh. I have a lot to learn in my years left in my career, but I'm trying as much as I possibly can.

[25:27]  My board tells me I've taken over this board and it's almost 30 years old, but they had no structure, no data, no... like it literally gave me a headache. Um, why am I doing this? Especially that it was a volunteer work. You know, a lot of the times when life starts lifeing, you're looking at that volunteer work like, why am I doing this again?

[25:45]  Um, but I stuck with it and I am building the structure and passing it on for someone to then maintain it in a sense.

[25:55]  Yeah.

[25:56]  And I have my team that just says, "Ephra will take care of it because you're not a good delegator." And I start laughing. That's it's not that I'm not a good delegator, but if I ask you to go and build something around AI, you don't know how to do it. But if I can build it and show you, now you can maintain it.

[26:11]  Right? So, um that's just where I'm as a leader. Maybe I'm doing things wrong, but I always laugh when someone says, "You don't know how to delegate." I'm like, I've been doing leadership and I'm not, like you mentioned, I'm not the best, but I pride myself in being a good leader.

Like, I've developed people because I see them for who they are, you know, and really pour into them. Um, and I'm pretty sure that's what you do as well, Dean. But I want to know, what does a good day actually look like for Dean as a leader and as a person?

[26:36]  Yeah. Well, you know, gosh, a good day, um, I adore working with the team and helping them figure out, you know, solutions. You know, like you said, um, I'll roll my sleeves up and I'll help them figure out, you know, something. And I love seeing that aha moment, uh, in our team, you know, and I love for them to go, "Ah, I’ve got that. I'm going to go do that and let me come back to you."

You know, in a day or two or maybe I'm working with a family. Yeah, I was working with this family yesterday, um, you know, from Washington State and um they didn't think that they were really, really anxious about how they were going to be able to afford school and um, you know, when they left our campus, the family was giggly and they're like, "We'll see you in August. Okay, we're going to be here in August."

And um, thank you. You know, we didn't realize that this was so doable. And um gosh, you know, if I have that happen, you know, in the same day, I just scored a touchdown. And I'm just flying high on... Yeah, that was a great day.

Um, you know, if it's on the weekend, gosh, it would be great if I could catch a little cutthroat trout, you know, and then enjoy the outdoor wilderness. And uh so, you know, it depends. I think there's lots of great ways to have a great day. Um, but I really at work I truly enjoy working with our team and working with students and um you know the love that I have in my career is being able to serve our students and um be able to have a student say, "I can't go to college or I'm not college material," and then watch them walk across the stage in four years and you know I'll get up and shake their hand or I'll slide around the back side of the podium and say, "Way to go! You did it."

Remember four years ago when you said you couldn't do this? You know, those are great days for me.

[28:29]  Yeah, man. That's how we continue to fill our cups. Right? The other people win.

Um, I'll leave you with this last question, man. I got to put you in the hot seat for this one. So, if you could actually redesign one system in higher ed completely from the ground up, what would you change first and why?

[29:16]  You know, gosh, I think that the opportunity for us to redesign higher ed would be coming together with industry partners and, you know, kind of exploring this degree, trying to figure out if genuinely being in the classroom for four years and then going out and doing an internship and then getting, you know, hands-on experience, maybe some, you know, smattering of hands-on experience while you're in college and then getting some more while you're internship.

And then going, why do we need to do that? Is there another way that maybe we can work with our industry partners and we're going to figure out that maybe there's an opportunity for them to train people in what they're looking for? Because you know a four-year graduate, a four-year degree maybe isn't what they're looking for in their industry needs.

Is there a way that we can partner together? And um, is there a way that maybe a student could start working earlier? We could help our workforce because that dwindling labor force is a thing for our country. And could we be more relevant by connecting with the industry partners?

And could we make our educational system, you know, our higher education system, uh, more woven with our society and with our industry, um, rather than being, you know, kind of an ivory tower kind of, "Oh, we'll train you and then you go out and do great things." Maybe there's another way to do that. And, and so would love to explore that a little bit more. And maybe, you know, some universities are going to be picking up on very soon.

[30:26]  I love that idea. I've thought about it in the high school level. Um, I thought to myself like, uh realtors, right? That's not something that you have to go and get a degree, but why are more realtors not at the schools giving out these scholarships to then teach them about real estate, right?

Like um, I got into a world of AV realizing that you didn't need a degree to go into AV, right? I just learned on the job. I was getting paid $30 an hour, Dean. You know, I was like, if someone's really willing to just commit to work, but how do you know these jobs exist?

And it is having to get more of these reps to say, "Hey, like go to the colleges, go to the high school and say, 'Hey, you don't need a six, eight year degree to come work with us. You know, we could... it may be six months.'"

[31:12]  And I think that's what it is that sometimes we just don't know.

Um, and I always... I don't know if we can compare the two, but I'm pretty sure you purchased a house at some point in your life, Dean. I when someone told me that the house was the most challenging and difficult thing that I will ever do in my life. Well, I found it as a very easy task.

And I think that college and signing up could be that as well. But in our minds, we've been told and we've been programmed to think it's so difficult to do this. But Dean, you're saying that it's actually easy, right? There's resources. You just have to also take the first step. Am I correct here?

[32:00]  You know, I think that people are very... it's very mysterious and um they're missing out on the opportunities because there's this fear of maybe the unknown. Um, I think that um the financial resources are available. We can help individuals make college a reality. Partnering with internships and with industry, I think is key in helping us become even better at what we do.

Um, I don't think it's necessarily easy. This is hard stuff. Okay. And you know, we got students that are sitting in calculus class right now. Man, that's not easy. Okay. I my hats off to them for that.

Um, but I think anybody that wants to be able to do it, I had a student that was interacting with me from Vietnam last night and they're concerned. I don't know if I can actually do this and be in your engineering program. And I said, "Sure you can. If you put your heart into it and because you're asking that question, you're a conscientious student, you're going to be successful. You just maintain that attitude. It's going to be hard work. Yeah, you're going to have to roll up your sleeves, but isn't anything that's worthwhile a little bit of hard work?

You know, if it were easy to run a marathon, not everybody would be doing it. And but when people accomplish they do a marathon because at the end they can look back and they go, "I did that. That was hard, but I did it." And I think education is the same way. You put what you want into it. At the end, you look back and you go, "Gosh, that was hard. Okay, that was a journey, but oh my gosh, I'm so proud of the accomplishments that I have, you know, behind me now."

[33:21]  Dean, man, great conversation. We got to definitely start wrapping up, but if people want more information, not just about schooling, but also Dean, if they want to connect with Dean, are you on LinkedIn? What are the socials that people can also connect with the school? Tell us.

[33:32]  Yeah. Yeah. Um, so, I work at the University of Idaho and, um, so if anybody wants to reach out to me, D is in Dean Kaylor, uh, at uidaho.edu. Um, I'm on LinkedIn. Yep. Uh, just search me up and, um, I am always happy to, you know, connect with individuals and, you know, always constantly doing that.

Um, if somebody's interested in just having a conversation with me, uh, my door is always open to them, uh, virtually or physically. And uh I would love to visit with individuals about, you know, what's on their mind and talk about higher education and see if there's something that I can do to serve them and help them out.

[34:10]  And what's the easiest way for a student, uh maybe a parent, someone that says, "Hey, I want to get back into school. What is a website or social I can look at?"

[34:18]  Yeah. Yeah. So, um, come to our website. It's uidaho.edu. Um, we do have a new program where students who have some college credit under their belt, but they want to finish off that degree, we have a program called the Vandal Finish program.

And, um, so, you know, if they go to our website, uh, search up Vandal Finish, they'll be able to find information on that. Um, we have students that actually reach out to us and they discover when we look at their transcripts, they go, "Wow, we could actually give you a degree right now. You have enough credits under your belt. Let's put this all together and craft a degree for you and let's get that degree in your hand."

And so, um, we've got stories of students that have done that. And so, let's look at your transcript and see how far you are. There are 40 plus million people out there that have some college work under their belt, okay? And they don't have a degree under their belt. And gosh, let's get them a degree. They worked hard for that. So, let's see what we can do.

So, um, uidaho.edu and, uh, we'll chat and we'll see what we can do for you.

Well, Dean, I so appreciate this and I know this won't be the last conversation that we have. I thank you. If you guys are enjoying these conversations, please make sure that you guys do like, subscribe, and comment. Dean, I'll catch you on the next one.

[35:29]  I look forward to it, friend. Take care.