You Can't Pour From an Empty Cup: Culture, Mentorship & Authentic Leadership | Chris Thomas

[0:00]  The here and now is the time to be the very best you can be. And when we allow ourselves to not be accountable for the here and now, that's how we end up in a place where we're like, "How the hell did I end up here?" Right? You're not paying attention to the journey. You know, back in the day, you would have made phone calls, you would have sent out paper products, right? There's some really defined ways to communicate, like putting up posters. And as we've added these layers of communications, it does change the way we message, right?

Putting a post on Facebook is in no way communicating with people, right? Dropping something in Instagram, you know, putting something out. So we try to be purposeful with what is it that we're trying to say, you know, what's the message? What's our audience? When do we want to get it to them? What else is going on around it? Right? Where do we put it?

[1:16]  Welcome back to another episode here on the Heart and Hustle podcast. I got to write this time, Chris. We’ve struggled a couple of times, man. Chris, you started out wanting to be a therapist, you know, PhD in psychology was the plan, and then life put something else in front of you, man. What actually happened and how did you end up here?

[1:32]  Education.

[1:33]  Man, that's a good question everybody asks themselves. But how did I end up here? Uh, by the grace of God is what I'll tell you. Um, by the grace of God and being willing to be open. And, uh, man, when I was young, I had so many rules, right? So many rules and things were supposed to be this and if this then that, and that's what I was taught. And then as I grew up, life just didn't work that way.

And so all of a sudden it wasn't as simple as me just knowing that this means this. And, um, you know, I had some opportunities present themselves, and then things kind of fell together, and then it kind of snowballed. Now I'm 52 years old. I've done this for 26 years.

[2:13]  26. Man, do you ever think about what would happen if I would have just stayed in my lane, or are you happy that you made the jump?

[2:16]  No, that's a great question. I think it's one that's actually really important for a couple of reasons. I think it's, um, at my age now, I don't play the coulda, woulda, shoulda game, right? I have a really great relationship with my older brother. He's nine years older than me. And so he's kind of getting near retirement. And so he and I have two different points of reflection, but you know, we're both getting to be older men.

And you know, we talk about it, and it's like, "Mike, you know, we did the best we could with the information we had at the time to make the best decision, and that's what it was supposed to be." And so, um, you know, it's foolish to try to live in that past and to talk about, "Well, I could have done this or could have done that." It's like, well, it didn't happen, you know. And so, uh, being grateful.

[3:10]  Chris, I'm gonna go back to what you just said just because my mom said this to me one time. You know, I lived this. I had to overcome adversity, right? Tough life. And um, I remember having a conversation maybe around my 30s with my mom, and she said exactly that. She says, "I apologize. I did the best I could with what I knew at the time."

[3:30]  Right? Yeah. You know, seven kids like, "Hey, you know, I also didn't graduate." You know, like we all have our own story, our own lives.

[3:38]  And it's so important that you said that. It's like, man, listen, I with what I knew at that moment, I made the best decisions for me, and here I am.

[3:46]  Right?

[3:46]  And that's not to say we shouldn't learn. That's not to say we shouldn't reflect. Um, so I'll uh, I have a very strict rule. Um, and I told you I don't like rules, and I'm going to tell you about my first rule.

The first rule of the Five Club, the rule that I have, I don't allow my students to wear other institutions' paraphernalia at my institution. I don't allow it. And I'll tell you why. Because you're living a lie, right? We go to WT. We go to West Texas A&M University, the finest institution in the state of Texas. So, don't come here and wear a Texas A&M shirt or a Texas Tech shirt, an OU shirt, because you don't go to school there. You go to school here.

And right now, in the here and now, is the time to be the very best you can be. And not playing this game about, "Well, when I get to a real school," or when I go, it's like, "No, brother, you may not make it." Today is the day. Today's the day you got to go to class. And so, it is a mindset.

And when we allow ourselves to not be accountable for the here and now, that's how we end up in a place where we're like, "How the hell did I end up here?" Right? You're not paying attention to the journey.

[5:01]  Wisdom, man. You pouring out wisdom right now. You're showing your age right now, Chris. The wisdom coming.

[5:08]  Um, so what was your first role going into higher ed?

[5:10]  Uh, that's really my when I was in high school, I was the class president. All right. And I was in athletics, and so I did extracurricular stuff in high school. So it was natural when I got to my little private liberal arts college in Missouri. At the time, in the early 90s, it was 85% Greek. I mean, the entire campus was Greek. 750 students.

[5:39]  Wow.

[5:40]  750 students. Um, everybody is Greek. Uh, and Midwest Greek is a different kind of Greek. U, East Coast Greek, West Coast Greek, Southern Greeks, right there. But Midwest Greeks are a different kind of Greek that there's a classic classism to Midwest Greeks. So, traditional fraternity house upperclassmen mentors write junior leadership roles into senior leadership roles, right? A progression being demonstrated.

So at my college, we didn't call it leadership. It just was leadership. So I was the president of my pledge class, and I took that really seriously. And then I was the social chair, and I took that seriously. And then I was the philanthropy chair, and we won the philanthropy award, which hadn't been won by a fraternity in more than a decade because the guys all said that we couldn't outcompete the women, and I didn't accept it.

And I lived with 50 badass dudes, and you know, my pledge class had attorneys, physicians, dentists, entrepreneurs, and so we had a really great group. I was blessed to be around a lot of outstanding guys and that leadership.

So when I got to Texas State and I started, my first paid position was as a graduate assistant for student organizations. And so we had 214 student organizations. And so my job was to help them be registered with paperwork, with compliance. I had to do a couple of leadership conferences for the campus and serve on a board to allocate funds.

[7:16]  Some really good fundamental student affairs roles in that first position. Um, and it was what I did at Westminster that got me the job at Texas State.

[7:37]  What is your role now?

[7:38]  Vice president for student affairs.

[7:40]  Wow.

[7:41]  Yep.

[7:41]  And when someone says students, how many times do you get the question, "What is exactly student affairs, Chris?"

[7:43]  Well, they always give me the joke about students and affairs, and so I just had that one in a meeting the other day. Um, but no, it's a very reasonable question, right? Like, what is it? When I explain it to people, it makes sense.

So anything outside of the classroom, right? Housing, dining, discipline, campus health, uh, rec complex, activities, Greek life, um, all the student union, all those services is student affairs.

[8:22]  How do you stay in communication with all these different things? Because right now you're talking about the living piece of the school. How do you communicate that? Is there a gap there? Do you think that there could be something better?

[8:43]  No, no doubt. Uh, before we jumped on, we had just done a survey, and I was reading the students' responses, and one of them said they want deep dish Chicago pizza and Cuban sandwiches in the calf. So I was cutting and pasting that to send to our chef to say this is, you know, fresh out of the mouth of babes.

Um, but yeah, even inside that, they're like, "Hey, you know, how can you communicate with us? How I wish I'd known, right?" And so, um, you know, that's part of it is doing good assessment.

Um, all the ways, right? You do survey data to get people to tell you what they're going to tell you, but you got to talk to people. You got to put boots on the ground. You got to, you know, press the flesh. You got to sit down and talk to people. Keep wide circles.

Um, we have some architects here on campus today that are working with some projects. And so I took them around, and they were teasing me. They said, "You're like the mayor." They're like, "Everywhere you go, you wait." And I said, "Well," and then one of them says, "You know, that's his job, right?" Like that's literally what he's supposed to be doing, you know, is knowing people. Uh, so there's that part of it, too.

[9:51]  Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. I think there's always that, you know, as I speak to people in higher ed, you don't realize how much really goes on at a university.

[9:58]  But to some of what people say, it's like, "I didn't even know that existed." You know, I didn't know like how do I get communicated in that? And we can say emails, newsletters, but how do we meet people where they're at?

[10:07]  Well, and I would I was going to say because you're absolutely right, but you can be on a small campus and people will tell you they don't know what's going on, and you can be at the University of Texas at Austin with 80,000 people, and they'll tell you they don't know what's going on.

So, the fantasy, it's like, "No, man. If I could just get to like 1500, I could really communicate." I just, it's not true.

You know, as you and I have talked about, you know, back in the day, you would have made phone calls, you would have sent out paper products, right? There's some really defined ways to communicate, like putting up posters. And as we've added these layers of communications, it does change the way we message, right?

And so putting a post on Facebook is in no way communicating with people, right? Dropping something in Instagram, you know, putting something out. So we try to be purposeful with what is it that we're trying to say, you know, what's the message? What's our audience? When do we want to get it to them? What else is going on around it? Right? Where do we put it?

And so, um, you know, we have kind of a standard program, but then we'll tailor that depending on what the event is, what time of year it is.

[11:29]  Uh, and so you can get better at it.

[11:29]  Strategy. Yeah. I mean, and especially if you accumulate data, right? Data says it all. You just told me just now, "Hey, I'm seeing what kids are wanting."

Like, while that's a funny thing is like, "Hey, you know, Chicago dish pizza," but if you're seeing a lot of people are saying this, hell, we need to get Chicago dish pizza. Clearly, it's a game changer, right?

[11:47]  Yeah. Well, and don't ask for feedback that you're not willing to accept either.

[11:52]  True.

[11:52]  You know, true. Yeah.

[11:54]  Chris, I think it's also fascinating that you were SGA president, and that you got to this part in your life, man, because I don't know a lot of people that were SGA presidents.

Hell, I still fight for the one in that was my class because we haven't had a reunion. She kind of like doesn't care anymore. And it's like you spend your life still caring, man, and realize, "Hey, I actually love this."

Is that where the love started? Like high school?

[12:21]  Say it again.

[12:22]  Is that where the love started for you? Was it in high school? Like you gained the love of just helping students because that's really what you guys were doing at the high school level.

[12:30]  Yeah. Um, no, that's kind of you to say. You know, I was like every other jerk. Self-absorbed, immature, mean-spirited. You know, I'm ashamed of what I did and what I said and who I hurt.

And you know, I look back, and in my mind, I was just being me, and I was like, "How you being a jerk?" But I mean, ain't that part of being 17 or 27?

[13:02]  No, no, you're so right.

[13:04]  Uh, I always liked school. Um, I always liked school. I like to learn. Um, I was raised in a reading home. We always had books. We always had National Geographic on the coffee table. You know, my mom read, and my dad read.

And so, uh, my father went to the University of Louisville, but it took him maybe 17 years in total, maybe 14, something like that to finish. He started at Eastern Kentucky, and then he quit, and then he worked, and then he went to Louisville and then he worked and he had a family, and then he finally got a job in Southeast Texas, and that's when he went back to Lamar in Beaumont and finished his undergraduate degree.

And so, you know, he was a non-traditional student in every sense of the word. Uh, my mom didn't have the opportunity to go to college. She went to, it would be in essence a community college. She was like a secretarial trade school of sorts in Louisville in the '60s.

And so, you know, she had that opportunity, but then as it was, they had my older brother and then my sister and then me. I come along later, and so education was always important, but it wasn't as if everyone around us were college graduates or we talked about college that kind of thing.

[14:28]  What's the most important part? Because I think it's just very important to even think of is what's the most important part in becoming because you keep saying this is like just being you, right? Just loving who you are.

How important is that?

[14:54]  I think it's huge. I think when people don't understand that, as you mentioned, you become fake, right? You're trying to just kind of become a part of all these communities, but what is your community?

How important was that for you?

[15:03]  Man, you know, it's crucial. It's crucial. Um, I think part of studying psychology for me was this fascination with philosophy. Uh, this fascination with knowing the questions I had about theology.

Um, you know, all these different kinds of things. I liked science fiction. Um, I liked the classics. And so for me, psychology and this essence of understanding to me was really powerful.

And so I was attracted to it. And the counseling part to me just seemed like something I could do. Um, and so, uh, and then I, you know, I said, "Dad, I think I want to be a therapist. I want to be a psychologist."

And he was like, "Okay." You know, just so it was great in that sense that he wasn't like, "You have to do this or have to do that or you can or can't."

And what he did to me, he said, "I think you could be a college professor." Um, and so, you know, just kind of in passing.

[16:07]  So, I'll show you the first thing.

And so, uh, 'cause this goes back to what we were just talking about.

[16:12]  All right. So, let's see. Okay.

So, we have our first dot here inside the circle.

[16:18]  All right.

And then our second dot outside the circle. Okay. So this process is called internal and external locus of control. Right?

So a locus is a point.

[16:34]  Okay.

Internal locus of control means I failed the test because I didn't study for the test. External locus of control means I failed the test because the teacher sucks and they didn't teach very well and they gave a test that was too hard for everybody.

So when we're talking to college students, we talk to them about this principle because if it's internal, then I can change it.

[17:04]  Yeah.

If it's internal, I can change it. If I'm acted upon by the world, I'm just reacting to everything. I have no control, no center of balance. But I'm acting just as you have done, just as the choices that you have made, the way that you decided to take control of your life which was out of control and out of your control.

[17:25]  And you took it back.

[17:27]  I want you to know, Chris, that I was the one that was failing because I wasn't studying, by the way.

[17:31]  Right.

But I was definitely blaming on the teacher.

[17:36]  I got it both ways.

[17:39]  I got it. I got it both ways.

[17:42]  No, this is cool. I also love just the mindset that you have that you bring into as from a psychologist point because you also mentioned that what you do a lot of higher ed leaders right now do a lot of higher ed leaders right now are anxious, but what you do is really develop two audiences, right?

And you think it from that perspective is I'm looking at it from the students and professionals who serve them while people are just thinking about everything else and anxious about the world. Your focus is so much bigger.

How do you get to that? How do you pour both into them at the same time?

[18:07]  Thank you, that's very kind of you to say. In order to think big, we have to bring it down, right? We have to bring it down to the points.

Uh, life is overwhelming. Being a human being is overwhelming, right? Being a dad, having a job, dealing with tragedy, all of these things independently are overwhelming.

And yet somehow we put all that stuff into a big old coat and put it on every day, right? So how do we manage?

And for me, it's what fills my cup, right?

Uh, what fills my cup? And if my cup is full, then I can fill other people's cups.

And the joy that I have, and I've taken, you know, hundreds of psychological interest inventories and intelligence tests and personality tests and all those kinds of things.

And I do end up back in the same place. At my heart of hearts, I'm a teacher.

So for me, it is that social interaction. It is being with other people and sharing.

[19:15]  Um, you know, that's what brings me joy. So being aware, right, first off, you know, if we're aware that we can impact change, so being aware and then being able to plan to do those things.

So I'm adding energy to myself instead of always taking it away.

[19:30]  If the Heart and Hustle podcast has ever sparked any idea or made you think differently, do us a favor. Make sure you guys share this, post it on LinkedIn, or even text that nonprofit friend that you just have. Whatever works. This is what keeps the conversation going and allows us to just grow this community together. Seriously, we appreciate you.

[19:51]  I love it. I need to take one of those tests you're talking about.

[19:53]  Yeah. I haven't taken one in a long time, man. It's probably when I was 20 years old was the last time I took one. I would love to know where I'm at today.

[20:02]  Do you remember?

[20:04]  Hell no. I don't. Listen, I'm 36 now, Chris. Okay. I'm getting older, bro. I can't remember when I was 20.

[20:11]  An introvert, extrovert, right? Intuitive versus thinking, judging, feeling.

[20:15]  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, man. It's been a long time, man. But it is very, it is very mindset. And it's easier said than done though, Chris, because there are people that right now, and as you're very positive, your minds and it's because it's in the mind, right?

It's the way that you speak to yourself, the way you carry yourself. But there are people that can we talk to those people that right now are feeling like their jobs are on the line because of what's happening, right?

Um, the supply and demand. I mean, I think it was always coming, and we should have just planned and pivoted for this, and maybe that's what's going on. People are just freaking out in that sense.

[20:46]  But how does someone calm themselves down in a time where we're just seeing government funding, we're seeing schools closing down, people jobs on the line? What does that look like?

[20:56]  You know, yes. Uh, right now the world's a scary place. Um, but like you and I talked about in September of 2001, the world was a scary place.

[21:12]  Yeah.

And if you were 17 in 1969, the world was a real scary place, right?

[21:19]  Yeah.

So I never want to get into the part where it's like, "Okay, all right, now it's bad."

I mean, we lived through the Civil War. You know, we made it through World War II.

Uh, you know, human beings are amazing creatures, and yeah, all these terrible things are happening. I'm not naive, right?

At the same time, um, there's a person who's going through physical therapy who's getting to walk again. You know, they're breaking through.

I was meeting with the architects. They were talking about designing classrooms for students who are blind, designing classrooms for students who are deaf, designing classrooms for students who are autistic, right?

I mean, there's cutting-edge technology. We're about to send another rocket to the moon. So, I mean, there's a lot of beautiful things.

And so, uh, you know, to anybody that's lost their job or losing their job or has cancer or lost something, I'm not at all taken away from that, right?

Um, but it also doesn't take away from the love I have for my wife or for my child or my faith. So, I think that balance is important, too.

[22:41]  I agree. I mean, I remember I was in middle school, believe it or not, Chris. I was at home because I was suspended, and I was hearing it on the radio.

[22:52]  Like, what is that?

But that's why I remember 9/11, man. But yes, we even think about the pandemic, right?

To me, I think about all these places, and it only on the other side has caused us to be better, right? Like we got better.

It's an opportunity to be better, right?

[23:15]  Yeah. I, you know, and it is back to the mindset. It is definitely how we see things and being around the right people.

And you know, it's just so many different things. We don't have to get into that mental health, but I think it's just really crucial when we talk about where people want to be.

It starts in the mind, like in believing in it, you know.

Um, for sure.

No matter where I go, there I am.

[23:36]  No matter where I go, there I am.

[23:39]  Yeah. This is a good conversation.

[23:42]  You look amazing.

[23:43]  Oh, that's sweet. Uh, but it's true, right?

I lived in Costa Rica in a beach house. My job was to clean the pool. I was 24 years old with nice dark hair and tan skin, and I was miserable because the girl that I had dated for the last two years was back in Southeast Texas.

And I realized that I was in paradise, eating a fresh mango I bought for a nickel and crying because I missed Melissa.

And I realized that I didn't care about blue water. I didn't care about cockatoos or parrots or pools or any of that stuff.

Nothing meant anything to me. I really, my heart hurt for my wife. And I called her up from a pay phone and I said, "I'm coming home, and I'm going to marry you."

[24:30]  Is Melissa your wife now?

[24:31]  You're damn right she is.

[24:33]  Wow. You were really in love.

[24:35]  Yeah. Forget paradise. He said, "Wait, paradise is back at home in Texas."

[24:38]  Paradise is with her.

[24:40]  And I said, "It doesn't matter where I'm at, right? If I'm with her, I'm happy."

[24:51]  So, you know, I saw that first.

[24:52]  Are you in the dog right now?

[24:54]  Is that where you say some kind of stuff, Chris?

[24:59]  Yo, Chris, you're too funny. I just love how authentic you are, man.

I think it you can tell you love what you do.

Um, and it doesn't go, you know, obviously for me unnoticed, but also I'm happy that students are getting to see and receive that.

Not a lot of times, man. Believe it or not, I was once told school is not for me.

You might as well go get a job, right?

And because life was happening.

Wasn't because I was a bad kid, not because I was stupid, even though the grades said differently.

You know, my actions may set up differently, but it's life was happening.

You know what I mean?

And for you, Chris, to just always show up as yourself, it allows people to be themselves and allow people to just understand that, man, I'm not in this alone.

So, for you just being authentically you, bro, I could imagine that students come back to you.

That's why you're like the mayor. Everyone talks about who Chris is, but you just got this energy, man, where you don't care who it is, you're just saying hello to everybody, respecting everybody.

Because like you mentioned, you're at peace. Your wife's at home. So, when you go home, I'm a happy man.

[25:58]  I'm a happy man. I'm blessed, you know?

[26:01]  You got kids as well?

[26:03]  Just one child.

[26:11]  We have one child. My wife has type one juvenile onset diabetes.

And so we got pregnant in 2007. And so they had just really come out with the insulin pump.

And so Melissa got on the insulin pump because it keeps your blood sugar stable, where with the injections you give too much and it goes down.

You got to take it goes back and forth. But with the pump, so she got on the pump, and we had a really great pregnancy.

She was healthier in her pregnancy than a lot of women just in general.

So God was really kind to us, but pregnancy and diabetes is dangerous for real.

You can damage the kidneys, you know, you can damage internal organs.

And so we went probably three years and said, "Okay, we're going to have a window and we're going to see if we can have a child if that's what it's supposed to be."

But I was terrified. I didn't want to sacrifice my wife to have another child.

You know, that was my fear.

And so we have a window of six months, eight months, whatever it was, and we didn't get pregnant.

And I said, "Okay, that's it."

[27:32]  Oh, no, man. I respect that.

Yeah, because it's, I mean, what I realized, especially after seeing my wife give birth, is the respect I have more for women after that.

Holy crap, I almost passed out.

I did. I had to take a knee.

The camera turns off. It fades to black. I'm out.

Oh my god.

[27:52]  Lord. Listen, Chris. They done threw that placenta in that, you know, pig.

And I'm like, "What in the world?"

The surgeon asked me if I wanted to cut the umbilical cord, and all I could do was cry.

I couldn't even form words. I had never felt anything like that.

And so luckily my mother-in-law is the man of the family, and she pushed me out of the way and she took the clippers and she cut that umbilical cord of her first grandbaby, you know, and she's like, "Get up off the floor."

[28:23]  I was uh when I seen the epidural, you know, I always hear the story, but when I actually seen it, and listen, I'm not like physically seeing it go into the back, but I just seen them pull it out.

And I'm over here hot flash. Like I'm just like trying to find where I can lay down because man, I'm not that type of person.

Listen, I'm a little scared when it comes to just the needles and all that. You know what I mean?

[28:44]  To death.

[28:47]  Scared to death.

[28:48]  You know, not my type of thing, man.

[28:50]  Gber can make a man out of you, man.

As we were talking a little bit about students earlier, man, I really want to just kind of dig at if students don't stop needing help at 5:00 PM, right?

We talked about a first-gen student has a housing crisis at 10 p.m., especially a first-gen student.

Some who may need mental health resources on a Sunday.

What happens right now when a student reaches out and nobody's there, or have you guys adapted something?

[29:16]  Yeah, I mean, okay, there's always somebody.

So that's first. Our police dispatch here at WT is 365, 24/7.

So number one, you can always call University Dispatch, and then Dispatch has the resources locally, you know, with us then all the way up.

So if we have a student that's in crisis and we end up calling 911, our officers are amazing.

Our officers are trained. Our officers write these heartfelt reports that I'll get at the end of shift reports where they'll talk about it, and they're holding these kids, right?

These weeping men and women, right? And these officers are hugging them, right? And talking to them, and they're so kind and so professional, and they go through the things.

And so if it's that extreme, we've always got that.

If they live in the residence halls, we have on-call CAS.

So you and I would know that, uh, Charlie, you know, down the way is the phone number that we call at night.

So I've got somebody I can call that's not the cops, right? It's like I don't need to call the cops. I just need a friend for a minute, right?

So they've got that layer.

We have a relationship with a company called Telus.

So Telus is a 24/7, 365 mental health service.

And so you can literally get with a counselor. There are people that it's 24/7 stat.

So, you can get with a counselor.

It's not a therapist, right? Because you're not doing any more than the emergency room doctor is like your physician kind of thing, right?

They're dealing with the crisis at the point that a counselor could at least say, "Hey, Chris, let me ask you these questions. Do you have a plan? Have you thought about hurting yourself? What are you doing?"

That kind of thing.

And do those preliminary assessments.

So, um, you know, we have those safeguards in place.

During regular business hours, we have students that have relationships with faculty. Faculty reach out on their behalf.

You know, maybe a roommate says, "Man, I'm worried about my colleague, my friend," that kind of thing.

So we really try to keep a you know, an each one teach one kind of mentality.

[31:39]  Love that.

But where are you guys right now with, um, you know, being student affairs?

Obviously just kind of boots on the ground, ears out there, but there's also technology that's coming around here, such as AI.

Where do you guys merge, or is there a merge here that you can still do the same amount of work but technology also plays a big role?

[31:56]  Yeah, you know, AI is one of those things I'm not, uh, I use it. You know, I use ChatGPT.

We do some image generation, you know, we're doing a couple different things with it.

I'm apparently not myself an early adopter of things.

I'm not a super techy kind of guy. So, I'm kind of willing to wait on the sidelines and then see what comes out.

You know, as with all new technologies, right? Something comes out and then it's going to be all things to all things, and then it goes to the trough of delusionment and despair, and then it kind of levels out to what it's going to be.

So, we can't ignore it. It's real. It's out there.

And so, uh, I do expect it to become, I remember being taught how to use email.

My professor in my angel class said, "Okay, you all have an email address. You're going to go to the library and create an email chain."

So, I didn't want to, right?

Uh, I was really good at writing letters, and I would decorate the envelope and I'd mail them, and I'd get them, and I was like, "I don't want to do email."

But he was like, "This is how you're going to do it."

So, in the same way, I was literally taught how to do email or use the internet, I'll be taught how to use AI, too.

So, I'm not afraid of it.

[33:14]  Yeah.

I just start laughing because you've been a clown this whole podcast.

And when you started saying drawing or you know, drawing envelopes, coloring, all I could picture is Chris writing notes, circling yes or no with a whole bunch of question marks.

Oh, yeah. The good old days, Chris.

Even when you were talking about the emote, too.

Going to my party. Yes or no?

You got to meet me.

All right. We had to work for it. This is back in the day.

When you call a girl, her dad may answer the phone.

So, you kids, you don't know.

Times are not the same.

[33:49]  I appreciate you. And as we wrap this up, man, you've stayed in this field for decades now when other paths were available to you.

We talked about just even your past before higher ed.

What keeps filling your cup, man? What does it feel like when this work actually works?

Um, I got an invitation from the governor's leadership program I was in.

They were looking for mentors and mentees.

And so I signed up to be a mentor.

And so, I'm old enough now to be a mentor.

And, uh, you know, if I can do it, then I want to know.

[34:32]  Got it. So filling your cup is really just pouring back to others.

That's what fills your cup.

People give to me every day.

You know, people smile back at me every day.

And, uh, I'm fortunate.

I'm blessed. I really am.

You know, God's been really kind to me.

[34:53]  Man, it's because your energy is contagious.

Your energy is contagious, Chris.

Like, literally, man, I've been having a good time.

We've been probably about 40 minutes already, and I'm sitting here like, you're smiling.

Your energy is like, yeah, man.

You're definitely that good person I would like to work alongside.

I can imagine you hear that all the time.

People just enjoy working with you. Is that right?

[35:11]  Not all of them.

[35:13]  Oh, man.

We all fall short.

[35:15]  They all enjoy it.

We all fall short, right?

Oh, man. You know, sometimes we're too good.

People just don't like it.

That's what it is.

[35:22]  Yeah, that's what I would tell myself back here in my locus of control.

Um, no.

[35:29]  Well, Chris, we got to start wrapping up, man.

Where can people find more information about Chris? Are you on LinkedIn?

But also about the school. What is the website, socials, all that good stuff?

[35:37]  Yeah. Uh, West Texas A&M University here in beautiful Canyon, Texas.

Uh, wtamu.edu is our home site.

Um, we have a live buffalo mascot, and so there's some really awesome video of our buffalo mascot and the herdsman, which is a group of students who are charged with caring for the live buffalo.

We're one of the few schools that have a live mascot, but we actually have a freaking buffalo that we bring out on campus, and so it's really awesome.

The campus is really beautiful, and so yeah, definitely hit the website and looking for WT.

I'm not on Instagram or any of those things for actually a legitimate reason.

What was happening, you know, 15 years ago when I was doing student discipline and I was on Facebook, people would send me a picture and say, "Hey, here's my ex-girlfriend, and she's 20 and she's drinking a beer, and you have to kick her out of school."

Or, "Hey, this kid is a nursing major, and they said something I don't agree with, and so you have to kick them out of school."

And I was like, I can't be this way.

And so I just quit.

[37:00]  That is crazy.

So, LinkedIn's cool because I can kind of see what's going on.

I see job postings, and that kind of thing.

So, you know, they...

Not that you're looking for a job or anything.

No, no, no.

I mean, you should always be looking because, you know, for me, it's important what's out there.

What are people hiring?

I saw at Texas A&M they're hiring an associate vice president for AI.

So, what is that job?

What's that job, duties?

You know, so I want to see what's going on in the industry.

And so that I always keep an eye to see what people are calling stuff because we like to do that.

We like to change names.

[37:42]  Yes, 100%.

Yeah.

Give it a fancy name, but it's still the damn same thing.

You know, and so yeah, that kind of cracks me up.

And then now, man, I got into LinkedIn, shoot, maybe seven or eight years ago.

How many LinkedIn people do you think I have?

How many connections?

What's your guess?

[38:02]  You started 78 years ago.

No, no.

Uh, 2007 or 8.

Oh, 2007 or 8.

Um, they told me 500 plus was a lot.

Yeah.

Um, you have...

I think this is a very trick question.

So I'm going to say you probably have about 800.

[38:23]  19,000.

You the man.

You famous.

You're an influencer on LinkedIn, Chris.

What are you out here talking about, bro?

Are you actually posting?

[38:34]  No.

Oh, come on.

You got 19,000 people following you, and you're not posting anything?

I repost jobs.

[38:42]  All right.

Repost this podcast, too, when we get it.

Okay.

When I get it, I certainly will.

I'll let them know.

Uh, well, Chris, man, it's definitely been a pleasure having a conversation with you.

It seems fun.

It seems like you clearly do not work because it doesn't feel like work to you, right?

You're just having the time of your life over here, man.

I don't think that you're really going to work.

[39:04]  But we appreciate you, guy.

We appreciate you, Chris, for your time, man.

Just being you.

Truly, truly, you.

You are your energy is very, very contagious.

I truly mean that.

And for those that are watching, make sure you guys do like, subscribe, and comment, and become the 19,000 like one follower of Chris Thomas.

All right?

Make sure that you guys go to LinkedIn.

Chris, it's been a pleasure, my brother.

We'll see you guys on the next.

[39:23]  I'm proud of you.

I'm proud of you.

Thank you for what you're doing.