Building Inclusive Housing & Boards: Doug Tennant on True Disability Leadership

[0:00]  When you see somebody who's a little bit different, who has a developmental disability acquired brain injury, rather than standing back, interact with them the way that you would interact with with with anybody else, say hi. Uh so that's the starting point. Uh and that's sort of a personal thing that people should do. Then I think the next the next stage to that would be also then uh be curious about why when you don't see people with developmental disabilities or acquire a brain injuries in certain places be curious about that but also try to figure out how you can support people with disabilities to be part of of whatever it is. It could be your place of work. It could be your community center. It could be a nightclub late at night. like why are there not people with developmental disabilities uh out late uh you know

[0:47]  having a beer and and and make the assumption that anything that you have in your life with supports uh people with developmental disabilities have the same right to those things Welcome back to another episode of the Hard and Hustle podcast. Doug, you spent nearly four decades changing the game in the nonprofit leadership. But I got to ask, was there ever a moment early on when you thought, man, I have no idea what I'm doing? Because stepping into this world had to be pretty crazy. Oh, and and you're saying early on I I have

[1:35]  on a weekly basis uh thinking I have no idea what I'm doing, but that's because uh you know uh you have to test yourself for growth and if you're always doing the same old thing uh you're you're not going to move and and change. Uh yeah, absolutely. So when I first became the CEO of Unity, um there was a shift that I made from um the education world. Um I was uh in administration having also been a teacher for 17 years. uh and it and it was quite a shift to come into an organization where uh I probably wasn't the subject expert and uh fortunately having a a team of uh directors of senior staff and I really spent the first six months in my direct report

[2:21]  meetings with them uh learning about uh what what it is that they did what they were passionate about uh and only then starting to you know get enough uh I guess experience and knowledge to to be able to uh help them make decisions. I I want to kind of go back a little bit. Let's rewind. What first pulled you into this space? Like what was that moment or experience that made you say, "Okay, this is the work that I need to be doing more of." Right. At the at the very beginning, it was it was meeting my stepdaughter Christa uh who has Down syndrome and she was 3 years old at the time and that was uh 33 years ago. And um here she was just this fantastic little human being who you

[3:09]  know was curious, creative, funny, uh and and when it came time for her to go to her first uh public school, uh an elementary school in Cougar Canyon, uh it was fascinating to to me. She was going into kindergarten and uh they they had a a parent teacher uh association meeting of and 400 people showed up and there were people in that group including like doctors who stood up and said that uh this this fantastic little girl wasn't welcome in in the school and and really coming up with bigoted uninformed reasons as to why. Uh and and that shifted things in my head. um the realization that uh discrimination uh was out there in society and

[3:59]  ignorance and you know for people like Christa and others with developmental disabilities um it really changed my focus uh and and my career path. I actually went back to school and became a teacher and then ended up where I am now uh because of the realization that the the world was unfair to people that didn't deserve to be uh treated poorly.

[4:22]  And uh yeah, it became my uh mission, personal mission to support people with developmental disabilities to be leaders in their own lives and to be able to tell their story and to be able to uh stand up to uh bullies and bigots in the world. I think I I know I told you this last time we spoke, Doug. Like, how cool is it that you get into a relationship and it wasn't your wife that changed your life, it was her daughter that changed your life. Like, you don't know what you're getting into sometimes and how your life would change for the better. And it did because it allowed you to see things differently. It allowed you to become an advocate for something completely different that you didn't even think of. It allowed you to go back to school and educate yourself more. You talk about always learning.

[5:06]  here you are still gaining knowledge every single day on how can you better people not just like your stepdaughter but those around the world that face this every single day I'm I'm just I'm in awe man of just the work that you've been able to do and and everything that you've kind of done and we've seen the space really evolve over the years truly what's kind of been the biggest shift in and how society even views inclusion and disability support yeah and lately there has been much more of a shift and I and I do believe that that's tied to people with uh developmental disabilities being able to uh tell their own story. Uh you know, when my stepdaughter was born, the doctor told her mother that she should give her give her up and and that Christa should be put in an institution.

[5:52]  And that's just 33 years ago. uh and and I would say that in the community today there's still many people who sort of believe that an institutional model for people with developmental disabilities uh is the best solution. Uh and we know that that's not true. And and the the shifts that have come are from a model that sees people with developmental disabilities as existing to just receive help to the shift that Unity uh and myself are trying to engender, which is that people with developmental disabilities are leaders in their own lives, but also leaders in the community. And it's a reciprocal relationship just like anybody else uh with yourself in the community that uh sometimes you need things uh but then

[6:39]  sometimes you're going to give things and people with developmental disabilities a great tragedy has been that for many years they've never had the opportunity or the support to uh give back and to lead in the community. Let's get into it. Unity a $20 million budget 300 employees which is not a very small operation when it comes to you know what you guys do. what makes you different from other organizations that maybe you've come across in the space, right? And and Unity is actually three different notfor-profits who work together um and and have the same leadership and board. Uh and I think what makes us different is uh 20 years ago Paul Wheeler the my predecessor as CEO uh went down to New Orleans and in New Orleans he uh he ran into some

[7:27]  people who uh were very focused on person- centered uh thinking and not person- centered thinking uh just as an idea but actually a set of practices that would uh allow us to support people with developmental disabilities in a way that listens to their voice. And so for uh the last 20 20 22 years uh our organization has been uh listening uh and learning uh from the people we support and that really I think set the foundation uh for where we are now where uh people with developmental disabilities within the organization and on our board um are leading are taking quality assurance roles where they ensure that we're achieving our mission and and also are being supported to be

[8:14]  on boards in the community and to be leaders in the community uh and to give back to the community as well. If you had to actually explain the mission to a 10-year-old, how would you describe the mission to the organization to unities? Yeah, our mission is that uh people with uh developmental disabilities and acquired brain injuries will live lives of their choosing in the community. And what that means is that uh whatever anybody else in community has opportunities for, we will support people with developmental disabilities to have the same opportunities uh uh to uh be included uh but also to to host the table. So I think we talked about this previously that there is a that was actually my next question. How did you

[9:01]  know Doug? I was going to ask you that whole hosting the table thing. So you led right into my next question. Yes. Keep on keep on. Right. So, um there's there's an old trope uh in the disability world which is that uh people with disabilities uh should be invited to the table uh and uh you know to belong uh their their voice should be heard at the table. And all of that uh those tropes have people with disabilities as passive recipients of the charity of others. And we really want to upend that. And our belief at Unity is people with developmental disabilities have the right to host the table. And that's that's a complete shift. And and an example of that would be um uh we built Chorus Apartments in

[9:52]  2016. Uh first apartment of its type where uh it's an apartment like any other apartment, but of the 71 homes, rental homes, uh 20 of them spread throughout the building are for for tenants with developmental disabilities. So, um, if a person with a developmental disability never has their own home, well, then how can they host somebody else? But now that, uh, it's been set up in a way where they have their own home, uh, they're inviting people to dinner.

[10:18]  They're inviting their mom, their dad, uh, they're hosting Christmas dinners. And, and, uh, and that's because we've set up an opportunity uh, for them to have their own home. And once they have their own home, well, guess what? They want to invite people over. They want to share share their bounty with others. uh and and we need to start thinking about that way. If a person has nothing, then how can they uh give back to the community? That's actually really good.

[10:42]  And to just give them that home to make them feel just like everyone else feels, right? That they have their own space and that they can invite others because of course, who who doesn't want to invite friends and family to what's theirs? So, I love that you guys have thought that and and I think that nonprofits are often seen as just a a feel-good but not always respected as a serious business. And in reality, the nonprofit spaces are just like the for-profits. One has stakeholders, one has stockholders. If you're into uh raising money, then that means you're probably good at sales. All right. It's really very similar. You adopted the CEO title to change that, though. What difference has that actually made for you? Right. And and and you're right within the not for-profit world, there's uh there's the idea that we need to be again kind of passive and and nice and

[11:31]  go hand in hand to people to ask for their help. And what what I was finding was uh as we as Unity tried to form relationships in the business world, people didn't really understand what an executive director uh was or did. In some organizations, it's not even the the top person in the organization. And so my board and myself decided that uh we would change my title to CEO. Uh and and that was so that uh people in the business world would understand uh you know the structure of unity and it also gave me more of a voice to speak with uh when I was speaking to business people about the need to be inclusive uh and also in a reciprocal nature uh volunteering my ta time uh to to be part of the business world. uh I joined uh

[12:18]  the board I was elected to the board of the Suriri board of trade the fifth biggest uh board of trade in Canada uh and ended up being the the chair of that board for two years and and though and again so a reciprocal relationship where I'm giving of my time to make the business community stronger uh because if I'm assuming that uh uh business owners should be hiring people with developmental disabilities which they definitely should um it comes a lot uh a lot more real if I'm actually putting some skin in the game in in that uh reciprocal relationship as well. If the Heart and Hustle podcast has ever sparked any idea or made you think differently, do us a favor. Make sure to guys share this, post it on LinkedIn, or even text that nonprofit friend that you just have. Whatever works, this is what

[13:08]  keeps the conversation going and allows us to just grow this community together. Seriously, we appreciate you. That's why you're the man. That's why that's why you've been doing this for as long as you have, man, because you think differently and you've also thought outside the box, which is really funny because I have this I had this conversation with my board recently.

[13:25]  You've been able to blend the old school methods, which is like mailing letters with also that modern digital strategy and and my nonprofit all the time like, "Hey, we got to mail letters." And I'm like, "But but who's who's looking at these letters?" But you said there is still some. what's kind of surprised you most about what actually works with that old school and that new modern digital world, right? And and and for communications, that's so that's so that's so uh important uh in that uh you know social media it kind of sets the stage. it tells your brand. Uh but as you know on Facebook when you have a Facebook event and you know maybe 5% of the people who say they're interested or will show up actually do show up. Uh so you also need to have that personal

[14:12]  touch. Uh and that personal touch for some people if we're looking at our donors is really uh what works for them. Uh we have donors who want to have mailed letters. Uh but for the majority of them, they're they're more than happy to have communication uh via email where you can set up links and and and take them to videos and other things that are demonstrating uh what we are doing to uh achieve our mission and make the community better. Uh so uh really the the the the communications piece uh you can't there there's many organizations not for-profit organizations that you're right are still stuck in the old way with uh mailouts and and not thinking about the full facet of how you communicate and how you can get in touch with the with the community and it's a two-way street as well because we also

[15:00]  want to learn uh from the community what it is that they think we should be doing. We'll go a little bit about these nonprofits as well because you also talked about pushing for younger, more diverse voices and I've actually seen that and even the nonprofit that I'm in that when I got a seat at the table, I was added to the table because they needed just more um young blood is what they mentioned it, right? But I'm I'm not seeing that. I'm actually in a place now where everyone on the board is like 20 years older than me, 30 years older than me, and I'm trying to bring in this youth. But why do you think there's a big barrier that's really stopping that from happening? Right. Uh and I think there's that barrier is is uh there's multiple reasons for it. And one would just be sort of that traditional idea on boards that uh it is older people who are involved with boards. I think we um

[15:49]  are more knowledgeable now about diversity of boards, diversity of ethnicity, cultural background and things like that and disability. Uh but but very rarely do people uh think of that uh sort of that agism and it's agism against young people and and young people they're the ones that give me hope. Uh so uh uh whenever I talk to young people and and when I was uh teacher in school, I would always talk to them about the need for them to get involved with boards uh both as a way for themselves to progress in their careers, but also for a way for them to give back and and create uh different viewpoints. One of the best things that ever happened to me is a a student of mine who volunteered with uh with Unity when I was when I was teaching. Um she

[16:37]  ended up being uh my boss. She ended up being a board member who served for over 10 years and was a fantastic board member and was, you know, quite youthful compared to the rest of the board. Wow. That's actually pretty cool. And and and how do you get business leaders, especially like politicians, to actually listen to you to not just give that standard we support inclusion line, but really understand what the mission is and and what are you trying to do to change not just the community, but to change the world in the line of work that you're doing. Yeah. And and it comes back to that reciprocity and the uh the need for decision makers and politicians to understand that the voice of people with disabilities uh is important and actually is good for their political careers as well. And we've

[17:24]  managed to establish that and and it really started when we began supporting people uh to become part of uh uh municipal committees uh to uh do work on such things as like the housing needs report that our city of Suriri needed to do. uh a young lady that uh we support who has Down syndrome, she actually uh put that uh survey into plain language and ensured that over a hundred people with developmental disabilities were able to have their voice included uh in the housing planning for for our city.

[17:59]  uh and and then also getting uh people with developmental disabilities economically involved in terms of being employed but also uh attending uh chamber and board of trade events uh where we have it now in our city when uh self- advocates of semiamu a partner group of ours that uh are people with developmental disabilities uh they attend all the events and and and usually their table is the one that is the the has the most action because people want to come and talk to and not talk to them about uh you know tra I guess traditional stereotypical disability kind of ideas um but but you know like how's that housing development going uh uh you know you know what have you been doing on the accessibility

[18:46]  committee working with the city like it it's it's just the the narrative has completely changed and so we have our the premier of our province who knows probably five of the people uh we support on a firstname basis. Our our mayor uh you know in invites out people from uh our organization with disabilities to have lunch with her.

[19:06]  Like it's it's it's uh uh it's getting people into the halls of power. Uh but it's it's happening because decision makers uh uh well partly they're mostly good people, but secondly uh they actually uh now see people as people. And so when a an apartment is being approved, they're they're thinking about, oh, this is Lauren, who I know very well, who's going to live in the apartment? And yeah, I I would support that because it's something that I'm a familiar with. Uh, and she's a good person. Such a cool space to be in, man.

[19:39]  I almost feel like you're you're living the dream right now, right? like just the rooms you get to be in, the people that you can you you make smile, the families that you're able to touch, the connections you're making. I love the ability where you're you're seeing these um individual disabilities then have their own home. That is so cool that you guys thought that far into it as well and and that you're just working with other leaders that they can also see the mission and the growth that is happening. Then we also have what's happening in the world in every field which is AI and as I talk to a lot of nonprofit leaders they kind of it's something that um some people are still curious about per se and what what is your thoughts when it comes to AI and how it can actually enhance what you're

[20:26]  already doing not so much replacing anybody because that's what I think that the fear is that it's replacing bodies but it's not it's becoming a a resource it's a tool that we can use to enhance what we're already doing. what is your thoughts on AI in the nonprofit space? And you know what's really cool? Since I talked to you, I actually have been to Toronto uh as with a cohort of of leaders from across Canada and and Deote uh actually put us in a greenhouse uh uh creative space and and talked about AI.

[20:55]  So, I'm actually more knowledgeable about AI when I was last time. And and and there definitely are are are benefits and and I think there's benefits for both the operations and practices of an organization such as ours, uh but then also benefits for people with disabilities in terms of improving their quality of life. So to start off with and I think you talked a bit about this last time um in in terms of our organization we've been talking with our board about um you know perhaps uh creating a a board agent an AI board agent uh who would uh uh take take minutes uh but also uh be the judge of uh like the values of the organization and and might say things like well you've made this decision are you sure

[21:43]  it's aligning with the values that you say you have uh and and and sort of checking in that way. So, uh that's something that uh I'm talking about with my board. They're a bit hesitant right now, but uh I I do see that there's a uh uh at the governance level, there's going to be some great uses for AI as an assistant uh and as someone that uh kind of tracks decisions and ensures that they are aligned with uh values uh and and the strategic planning of the organization. And then within the organization um uh in terms of strategic planning there's great uh uses of AI and and even one of the things that we're thinking about now is uh we have direct report relationships with uh you know the people who report to me and and whatnot and how can we make everything flow together into you know into our

[22:33]  strategic planning uh and and all of the work that we do. So I think there's going to be some really strong AI applications in terms of ensuring that everything from our direct report meetings to our larger strategic plan are aligned and also we're not doing extraneous additional work that we don't need to. So also more streamlined. Uh and then finally in terms in terms of supporting people with disabilities AI I think is going to have some fabulous implications for people who don't communicate by speaking. um uh you know perhaps uh helping figure out what their body motions etc mean and and being able to express that in a way that uh people in the community can understand. Uh and also for our direct support workers who who have quite a bit of administration that they have to do. uh uh helping them

[23:22]  uh do that in a way where the person with the disability is also involved uh and and uh the reports that we have to create uh are created but with less work uh less administrative work and more face-toface work with our staff. I you mentioned note takingaking and I actually implemented this in my last meeting. we all have that that you know uh secretary that is taking down notes and and making everything look good. So I told her I said hey why won't you just do it because sometimes we do meetings virtually. So I'm like why won't we just have a notetaker you know cuz just like we had a notetaker when me and you first met how beneficial that actually was you know for us. You see what we were able to kind of create Doug. So what does that look like when you're having an hour conversation, hour and a half conversation with your board and you

[24:10]  want the secretary to be involved? Because she's just as knowledgeable and she's just as innovative everybody else, but if she's so focused taking down notes, she's also missing pieces. She's also not feeling like she's a part of it. So one of the things I mentioned is like, hey, and no one loves to take notes. I I don't like to take notes at least. And I was like, hey, do you like doing that? And she's like, well, I mean, we have to, right? And I'm like, well, we really don't. like there's spaces that we can actually kind of help you out with AI. Another one I think I mentioned to you was the grant writing on how that could actually be very beneficial, you know, for us. I'll tell you another one. I've recently had a situation. I love AI. I use chat GPT very often, by the way. I I had another issue where I took over this nonprofit and they lost the 501c3. So, I was like, "Oh my god, I the first thing I got to do is make sure we get the 501c3 back."

[24:57]  So, we we're working on get reinstated. I I reached out to a gentleman. and he says it's going to be $5,000 and just because I needed to get it done. Cool. Let's do it. All right. Now, at the end of it all, he's charging me $8,000, right? I'm like, $8,000? You didn't even tell me where we're going to see the increase or XYZ. So, I say all that to say that I started to implement the conversation that we were having per email. I was inputting that in chat GBT, the conversations. Anytime they gave me a screenshot, I'll put that into ChatGpt invoices. So, I was catching all the red flags. Wait, how did this invoice change from this title to this title? Wait, why are they charging you here when it And it gave me all this like I mean insight.

[25:40]  It was creating emails for me to the point that it was kind of back and forth. It gave me this very um like almost aggressive but not too aggressive on, hey, this is what we're paying. Send me the invoice and let's continue moving. And I got it down to 5,000. All because Chad TPT played my CPA. I mean, granted, I was also talking to an actual CPA and say, "Hey, man, is this right?

[26:02]  Is this wrong because I don't know the the line of work, but how about those nonprofits that cannot afford a a high CPA or a lawyer, right? Just sometimes we want to just do things at that level and it's helped me out as as I've been my lawyer before." So, I love the AI space on what it's really doing. And I think that for nonprofits, yes, there is a space of especially for myself, I want people to use AI for grant writing. I want them to use AI for note-taking, but now we have to teach them how to do these things, right? So, yeah, are you going to have to spend a little time and maybe a little money to create a workshop and get everybody on board?

[26:38]  Yes. But does it save time? Does it save you money? Does it save all these things long term? Absolutely. Just imagine having a chatbot on your website that all the volunteers, so all the donors that had questions can go into this one place and they don't have to call Doug, they don't have to call the receptionist, they don't have everything is there for them. And then the more that they're actually asking um it's it's learning, right? These things that language learning model. So I love it.

[27:04]  Yeah. and and and and a chatbot for people in the community interested in you, but also a chatbot that is uh uh uh protected from the outside world that uh for internal organization where you put all your policies, you put all your and and just feed the information so that new employees when they if they have a question, they can ask it and it will say like, "Oh, yeah, that's this policy here and this is how you're supposed to do it." and even just best practices and and values and and so um yeah it is exciting and and I for one have always been very hesitant and worried about you know a world where humanity doesn't exist and it's all just uh robots talking back and forth to each other but what I find is that um it actually helps because it does this organizational

[27:51]  thing so that you can uh then see things more clearly uh and and then are able to express yourself uh uh better. So yeah, no, I'm I'm quite excited about it and I think there's lots of opportunity, but there of course is is risk as well. Uh but you know what, like I think you started off by saying like are there things that you don't know? And I'm like yeah and I love it. Like I don't know everything I need to know use know about AI at all, but boy is it ever interesting to learn it. Right. And to have a an organization where you know people are excited about learning. I I just love that. And and so my my my plan is to get people who are really excited from across all the departments who are excited and interesting about AI and and create a little working group where we can just sort of get together and and

[28:39]  and learn and teach each other uh and and then teach our our our colleagues uh after we've decided what the best practices should be. So yeah, exciting times for sure. I see. Man, you sound like a different person ever since you went to this this workshop in Canada. Now you're like I'm AI driven. I tell you man, chat GBT is one of those things that I had a good friend tell me this two years ago and it seemed cool but like anything it's like oh okay cool you know and I didn't spend any time for with it and then this last year probably almost a full year I'd been just really understanding chat TPT and like yourself learning about all these different AI tools but just that little chatbt and it we're at the beginning stages of what that actually does for us but seeing how it it it helped me and I'm not going to lie sometimes it had these creative

[29:26]  ideas. I never could even think of myself. And when you see that, you're like, "Oh, wow. Why didn't I think of that?" But it also helps me see things differently, speak differently. So, while people think it's the easy way out, I think I'm being more educated, that I'm having more conversations, and I speak to it just like I'm speaking to you. Hey, I have this issue, and I love to talk to it, and for it to talk back to me, it's like having this conversation with this, as you mentioned. Have you have you have you have you asked it to name itself? So, I uh my chat GPTO, I have it. It's It's uh It named itself Justice. So, that's that's my uh Okay, I'm gonna ask it today. I'm going to see what Yeah, I'm going to see what David comes up with.

[30:03]  Doug, for folks that are actually listening right now and they they want to make a real impact, what's one thing they can actually do today that could not just help maybe your organization, but help those that are in the same space, those that are dealing with disabilities and feel like they're just um almost on the outskirt of real life, right? Um and and our funer had a campaign uh a few years ago which was uh just say hi and and um and and I agree with that as a starting point. So a starting point should be that um when you see somebody who's a little bit different who has a developmental disability acquired brain injury. Uh rather than standing back, interact with them the way that you would interact with with with anybody else. Say hi. Uh

[30:52]  so that's the starting point. uh and that's sort of a personal thing that people should do. Then I think the next the next stage to that would be also then uh be curious about why uh when you don't see people with developmental disabilities or acquire a brain injuries in certain places be curious about that but also try to figure out how you can support people with disabilities to be part of of whatever it is. It could be your place of work. It could be your community center. It could be a nightclub late at night, like why are there not people with developmental disabilities uh out late uh you know having a beer and and and make the assumption that anything that you have in your life with supports uh people with developmental

[31:40]  disabilities have the same right to those things. Yeah, I like that. my my I have um a little niece um that has a disability and my daughter that's four years old got to see her cousin now that is 7 years old for the first time and of course very different right to herself she was um putting like things in her mouth that normally a seven-year-old wouldn't so my daughter obviously just kind of looking like why is she doing that why is she like that and I was so happy when my 16-year-old niece comes and says because we're all so very different our minds think very differently and she's still human just like us and we still love her. This is my 16-year-old do uh niece saying this to my four-year-old daughter. And here I am, dad, trying to create something in my head on how I'm going to, you know,

[32:27]  have this conversation. And I looked at my niece and I'm like, "Yeah, that's exactly what, you know, like I love that she was able to have that conversation because now when she sees someone, you know, out in the world cuz she's going to be an adult that she has a better understanding and that my daughter also gets to see that cuz she's going to have a better understanding because we see it all the time. And and I don't want us to ever look at them differently. And I, you know, this is what you're doing it for. We don't ever want them to feel excluded. We want them to feel included.

[32:56]  And how do we do that, right? And it's that we're educating even from our our young ones that they don't just stare and like why that person looks like that or, you know, why are they in the wheelchair or why are they this? We should be able to look and say, hey, they're human just like us. God created them a little bit differently because we're all smart in our own way.

[33:14]  Absolutely. and and and uh you know and I love the fact that young people now go to schools that are inclusive and there are people with disabilities who are there uh because that sets up the stage where it's not different and it's like you know that's just that person that's how they act and and this is how you can support them. uh I didn't there were no people with developmental disabilities in the schools that I went to and and I feel like that's that's an actually a tragedy that I was not able to uh have relationships and and know people with developmental disabilities uh until I met my uh stepdaughter. And and if you look in any family, including my own, uh when when you know we start talking about things, there there are great ants or aunts or people with disabilities who have been hidden away. And we need to

[34:02]  shift that. And and I think a way to shift that is to support uh uh reciprocal relationships so that people with developmental disabilities don't exist just to receive help, but actually lead their own lives and lead the community as well. This is so cool. We're going to start wrapping this up here, Doug, but if you can sit down with your younger self, let's say the younger self that is getting fresh into this nonprofit world, what's that one big piece of advice that you you would give young Doug? Oh man.

[34:30]  Uh yeah, cuz cuz there's some things that we've done where like I don't know if I would do it again, right? So, I'm not even sure if I'm a good one to give advice because to tell you the truth uh the the trauma that's been experienced in trying to build the latest apartment that we had where uh like so I might I might not give advice because my advice might be man it it might not be worth it to your health like so so uh I would say man just just freaking you keep going like you keep going when when when it when when you think you need to stop and check on this thing to get it perfect.

[35:09]  No, you keep going and you keep going with the values uh at the forefront and that is that people with disabilities should be fully included and also be leaders when they have the opportunity and you keep that in mind. And you know what? People that don't believe that, don't partner with them. That's that's something I would say is like only partner with people who actually have the same beliefs uh and and understanding uh and willingness to change to understand if they don't. Uh so yeah I yeah I'd be hesitant to go back and give advice because I might say like man that it's it's so difficult but uh and and and if I if I had known that person I might not have done it. So, so it's Yeah. So, I I'd say I just keep going. Just keep going. And really good for anybody, right? Just just keep going. Um because life is not easy. Life

[35:58]  becomes very challenging. Um and when you're you're faced with something, and you were faced with something, Doug, you kept going. How do I navigate around this? This is different, which was your stepdaughter. This is this is different, you know? Um how do I I love her just like I would love anybody else. And I think you you kept going and and look what you're doing. It's you're not leaving a legacy just for yourself, but it's it's in honor of her because you were able to experience her and now you're like, "Cool. How do I make sure that everyone gets the same experience because I want everyone to feel this?"

[36:31]  So, I mean, kudos to you, man. You're living you're leaving a huge legacy. And I'm gonna keep you in the hot seat because we're gonna go straight into that blind question. Okay. Sure. This is a curveball. Let's say Unity is making a movie about his journey. Who's playing you? And what's one scene that has to make the final cut? Oh man.

[36:53]  Uh yeah. Uh why you think I will tell you who I Okay. Who who I automatically thought. Tom Hanks plays you. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. He's he's a good guy. I was thinking Liam Niss uh because he can bring the team. He's a good guy. But you know what? Don't get in his way. I love it. Yeah. I love it. Yeah.

[37:17]  Cuz sometimes you have to be nice, but I I truly believe that um and and I'm fortunate to, you know, come from a very privileged sort of background, my ethnicity, all the rest of that where I can talk to people in a certain way that um that is unexpected sometimes. And and so I I do feel that there are times when you need to actually call a person out uh a decision maker out because they're doing the wrong thing uh and they're being a bigot. Like you you you if you stay quiet, and this is particularly important, I think right now with what's going on in the world is you can't stay quiet. You have to speak the truth. and and and when you do so, you also realize that the majority of the community are good people and are behind that as well.

[38:06]  I agree. So now I'll take you out the hot seat, man, and and ask a question for the next leader um whether they're the healthc care space, the nonprofit space that will come on to this podcast. What is your question to them? Yeah. So my question is if if you had a very strong belief about leadership before you uh became the leader you are um that's changed what is a leadership belief you've you had that's changed since you've become the leader that you are? Love it. That's actually a really good question. Um I always love these questions man because I start to think about myself like every time I hear these questions I have to start to answer them myself. So just imagine these are a lot of questions that I'm I'm answering, but it's so helpful because it makes you see things differently. I always feel that when you get to ask that question, sometimes we forget why we even do it. We got to go

[38:54]  back to ask those questions. Um so this is really good, Doug. This has truly been incredible. Where can people connect with you and support with Unity's work? Uh yeah, thanks so much. So, uh our website is probably the best way to connect with us. And so that's ww.unity Unity uni ti the number4 ll.com and maybe you can put that in the comments or something like that as well.

[39:20]  uh and so that would be the best way and and we're also uh pretty active on on Facebook and Instagram and all of those have connections and way to connect with us and I would invite anybody uh out there uh who is has an organization similar to Unity trying to build housing uh trying to do anything I'm always happy to have discussions because uh unity exists to achieve our ends which is that the qual people with disabilities will have a good quality of life and make their own decision.

[39:50]  decisions and so we can't do that ourselves. So like we share everything that we learn generously with anybody who's interested. I love it. Doug, you've been amazing. If you guys are still watching, make sure that you guys do share with a friend. Make sure that you guys do like, but also make sure you guys are visiting Unity and figuring how you can continue to increase what's already happening. There's already so much happening with Unity and Doug and the housing, but how can you continue to be a part of this world? We thank you so much, Doug, for just lending us your time. I know you're such a busy person, but thank you so much for lending your time. Guys, this has been the Heart and Hustle podcast. We'll catch you guys on the next one. Lers. Thank you.