From Million Dollar Homes to Recovery: Chris Bove's Shocking Career Change

[0:16]  Welcome back to another episode here on the Heart and Hustle podcast. Our next leader goes from building million-dollar homes to holding hands with people detoxing and jail cells. That'll definitely rewire the definition of success real quick. Mr. Chris, I appreciate you, man. You went from army to real estate to then Honduras, that's not a straight line. Truly, just a call-in. And I love these type of conversations. What did that first mission trip though do to you, man, that nothing else has ever had because you talked about a three-w weekek um what was it? You said you said it was a three-w weekek interview and by the end of it, it was an easy yes. So, kind of walk us through that journey, man.

[0:51]  Yeah, you know, it's actually it was about a week. Um, but I had gone on several other mission trips. So, it was probably my third or fourth time spending a week's long uh mission in Honduras. And, you know, it was it was absolutely life-changing. Uh, life-changing in many ways. I could say that from a personal level, really connecting with my faith, really connecting and recognizing there's just so much more need out in in the this great big world that we're living in. sometimes we get caught up in our own little bubbles and our own little day and so you know it certainly certainly changed my perspective from that that avenue. Uh but from a professional perspective and as you mentioned I was in this real estate development uh home building commercial construction business for a while and you know had the opportunity to go on a mission with a medical company and you know initially going in I was like what what am I going to do you know um don't really have this expertise but they wanted someone that had been to Honduras before a liaison and so I joined and met pretty much everybody that I was going on this week-long mission uh at the airport and it was a CEO of a company. there were some other executives going and then there was a lot of uh nurses and doctors and the intent was to go to remote areas in Honduras and try to provide some form of services those they they people in those remote villages haven't seen a doctor in a very long time if at all and you know went down um it it was not only life-changing to recognize the resources that we have here in the in the United States from healthcare, but it was also life-changing in that at the end of the week, the CEO said, "I want you to come work with me. I wasn't in the medical field, you know, I was I was building houses, as you mentioned, and in real estate development, developing properties, high-end properties. Um, and I jumped at the chance. The gentleman that that I speak of, he was just this dynamic, charismatic person. And I, you know, just felt this call like this is something I got to do." And that's that was that was my path into into healthcare. And as you mentioned, it was it was a weekl long interview. I felt like I kind of make that joke, but you know, I think it really changed the course of my life professionally and personally.

[3:17]  You mentioned mission trips. What gets you into doing so many mission trips? You just grew up kind of doing mission trips. Like not a lot of people say, "I've been on a couple of mission trips, maybe one, but what's getting you on these mission trips?" Clearly, you were kind of in that given space. uh you know was going to church. I was born Catholic, going to Catholic church regularly and at the time maybe not so regularly and uh probably felt a bit disconnected from my faith and I remember walking into church and thinking you know I think it might have been driving to church or earlier that day I said you know I should go on a mission trip just felt felt this and then literally at the end of mass they made an announcement about an upcoming mission trip and it was the first being hosted by our church and so right there and then it's like Okay, I guess guess I'm in, you know, and and signed up for it. And we we had these meetings and we're going, you know, months leading up to it, you know, meeting a week and everybody that was going um knew each other and and it was a lot of parents and teenagers and and I was, I think, in my 30s at the time and I didn't have any kids able to go because they weren't old enough and I didn't know anybody. And I I remember just going to those meetings, sitting in the back. And then on the way to the airport, I every part of my body wanted to turn around and not go. And um I went up going I got on the plane, lay over in Miami. I worked on the phone the whole time, didn't connect with anybody. And they were all talking and connecting and got down to Honduras where at the time there was no cell phone service. And really um it opened my eyes to a lot of opportunities and connecting with people. And ironically, we were down there to do some construction work and I looked around and realized a lot of these these uh people of my fellow team members didn't have any construction knowledge, you know, and so, you know, it gave me an opportunity to sit in a bit of a call it a resident expert for, you know, as much as I could be uh in in Honduras and just became a source for everybody and and just really connected. Chris, I feel like it's um it it's what I always say a lot of times doing things that makes you uncomfortable

[5:39]  almost leads to purpose.

[5:40]  Yeah.

[5:41]  Right. And you mentioned feeling like I wanted to not do it. Um, and I mean I tell you, just this past month, there's this one client that I just wanted to walk away from. And it's been so heavy on my heart and I've been telling my wife like, I think I should leave this client. It allows me to do more work, you know, in other ways and XYZ. But, you know, there's still that I don't want to leave my my family hanging though because I walked away from income. But a lot of times on the other side of that and why it was so heavy, you kind of talked about faith is you have you have to have faith, right? When those moments come to you, it's like you almost kind of got to go through it. There's so many times in my life, Chris, and I'm like I almost knew there was something greater on the other side, but I just wasn't ready for it cuz I was okay doing what I'm doing.

[6:31]  And for you, I can only imagine, Chris, you were okay doing what you were wanting to do, not realizing that you weren't chasing money no more. you were truly just chasing service and that really hits different. How do you explain that to someone?

[6:46]  You know, I I don't I don't know how I explain it. You know, just as you were speaking, I think about something that we talk a lot about here at Clean Slate, which I know we'll have a chance to speak to, but it's this mantra of getting comfortable with being uncomfortable because that's the society we live in.

[7:01]  And um and so, you know, I think that's one of the lessons I've learned over life is you've got to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. You have to make some hard decisions and you have to have faith and you have to you if you if you're chasing money more than likely in life you're g you're going to make some some bad choices. And the reality is not to say that you make the right choices and money is going to follow because that's not always the case. But but you you I have an opportunity to tell my kids a lot if you if you do something for money

[7:31]  and and you leave happiness behind that's not that's not fulfilling. Um, and so I think that's a piece of it is being comfortable with being being comfortable being uncomfortable

[7:41]  and then also you try to focus on what's right and what what provides you some form of of a feeling of being rewarded other than cash.

[7:52]  Yeah. Now I can imagine the way that you fill your cup. I was just talking to somebody else is like as we kind of went through life we always for some apparent reason felt that success meant being rich lot of money living in a big home. Um as you mentioned people don't have all the money but they have purpose they and they they have peace they didn't need the money and they feel rich. They feel rich within um you know sometimes spiritual because they've aligned themselves with God a little bit more. So they feel rich in that sense. So, I I'm just loving that it happened to you at an early age. You know, you said the 30s, right? Like that's almost, you know, in my 20s, I thought I was really grown and then when I became 30, I actually had my first child. I realized, who was I kidding? Like, I was far from it. Even now at age 35, feeling like there's so much to learn and and life has taught you so much, Chris, and now you're at Clean Slate. Can we talk about what Clean Slate does for those that may not even know that it exists?

[8:50]  Absolutely. Yeah, we we take care of people that that are um diagnosed with substance use disorder, predominantly some form of opiates. Um we also take care of those that are fighting alcohol use disorder. Um and it's on an outpatient basis. We've got 20,000 people that are depending upon us as an organization that we care for on a regular basis. And um you know we provide everything from from medical services to behavioral health counseling. We also treat our patient population for heepsi. Um we we you know test and treat in some locations HIV. Um we provide prep which is uh prophylactic to avoid contracting HIV. Our patients are at risk. Uh we treat for ST STDs. So, you know, we we really are trying to take care of a population that's in great need. U very rewarding. You know, some of my my best days are going to the centers and visiting with patients and talk about having been served by Clean Slate for many years and the team members at Clean Slate, the providers, the doctors, the nurse practitioners, the front desk team, you know, and they just talk about how this becomes, you know, a path and a journey to to healing, a path and a journey to reconnecting with family. I I the amount of stories I hear about people that talk about the fact that they were disconnected from their grandchildren, didn't even know their grandchildren's names and now because of the services that we provide and there's others in the communities that provide similar services, uh they're able to reconnect. That's huge because that's what it's about. It's not about cash. It's about those that you love. It's about family. It's about taking care of those that um that you can. And and you me you mentioned cash. I will say uh to when you were in your 20s I was a saying like give me more money I'll be happier more money equals happiness

[10:50]  and and just to go back to the story of Honduras I can tell you one of the first things you identify is and again this is going back a bunch of years they didn't have cell phones u there wasn't the internet no computers or there was the internet but they didn't have it in Honduras um their homes were made of what they had you know sticks and bricks and tarps and they were some of the happiest people I encountered. There was no noise in their lives. They didn't have the noise of a cell phone or a text or a ding for a Facebook post or anything like that. There was no noise. And that was absolutely one of my biggest learning lessons is, you know, there's something to this uh reducing the noise in our everyday life and finding some form of peace because there's happiness beyond just the cash. So, I just wanted to to revisit that a little bit because it's absolutely a takeaway that I I was able to bring home from Honduras and have to remind myself that a lot because you do you get caught up in the race.

[11:47]  If the Heart and Hustle podcast has ever sparked any idea or made you think differently, do us a favor. Make sure to guys share this, post it on LinkedIn, or even text that nonprofit friend that you just have. Whatever works. This is what keeps the conversation going and allows us to just grow this community together. Seriously, we appreciate you.

[12:08]  No, we do. I I think that I I love when leaders tell me the story of going to another country was what sparked the interest to do more because it wasn't until, you know, I feel as Americans sometimes we're very ungrateful, right? And going to other countries and see how they live and how they just are just so happy. When I was in South Africa, I would just I didn't know people live like this. But for sometimes two times a day for four hours at a time, they'll lose electricity. Yeah.

[12:38]  That means in the middle of dinner, that means in the middle of your phone charging your, you know, and and they still go through life like nothing. And still some of the most happiest people.

[12:47]  Um I bring this story up all the time because water, something that we just drink every single day. We can go buy a bottle of water for less than a dollar. Um they I'm bringing a b new bottle of water every day, you know, and they're asking me like, "Why do you have a brand new bottle of water every day?" Me thinking like, "What do you mean? It's so normal." And I said, "Don't you have a bottle of water?" And his response was, "I do, but I have to fill it up tap water every day." And then we put it in the fridge to make it feel like it's cold water that we drink. And it's like, "Holy crap." You know, I'm thinking some of these people may not go to eat that, you know, if electricity is gone for four hours. his mom and dad can't cook. Like, so just thinking about life, you know, I'm teaching at sometimes in the dark

[13:30]  because I was teaching the evening classes. Sometimes in the dark, having to go to the bathroom with a flashlight on and still come back and these people are just happy as day.

[13:37]  Respectful. the way that they just made me feel like I was one of them, you know, and I think I would I love that me and you got the experience, but I I would love for others to experience that because I think that we have a lot of people chasing the right things and not just chasing the paycheck. Um, you know, every time I think about Chasing Paycheck, I think about Robin Williams, a guy that just made people laugh and smile and had it all, but he wasn't happy. You know, end up taking his life because it wasn't about the money. Um, so yeah, and and what the line of work that you're doing is really helping others kind of know their worth and see the other side of the tunnel. I've experienced my mom to this day is still um on drugs, you know, that's how I lost my mom. you know, I was adopted at two years old and and and always just I hear stories as well, those people that overcome it and I always have faith that, you know, one day the right person, the right resources, the right organization can touch her and and heal her. And you talk about some of the work that you guys are doing, man, and that's what really making changes. I can imagine that fills your cup every night. Every time that you hear the story, as you mentioned earlier, it's like this is what I do it. Is that correct?

[14:48]  Yeah, absolutely. you know, try trying to um navigate the environment today has been challenging. You know, I I'm not going to lie, there's those moments where you go back and say, "Goodness gracious, we're I feel like we're fighting all these headwinds." you know, whether it be the structure of Medicaid and Medicare, whether it be the the the political aspect and the politicalization of how we take care of people, whether it be funding sources. You know, I can speak on behalf of of the executive team, myself, we're we're we're we're looking at those headwinds and all we want to do is take care of people, you know, and and then you you have the challenges in the communities that our team members face and and uh whether it be financial and inflation, whether it be their own personal challenges that they're facing at the home. Um you know, you want to try to help them as much as possible. So, at the end of the day, our goal is to to try to put as much of that behind us and look at everything that we're doing for people. And you're exactly right. When you do that, you're able to fill your cup. You can do it all day long. And I'll fight everybody if I need you.

[15:58]  There you go. you know, because the the 20,000 people and the people in the communities that are the families you everybody everybody listening to this podcast probably knows somebody as you mentioned that that has some form of of addiction, you know, and let's let's all get together and let's work together on this. It's too important. And and sometimes you see the politic politicalization of it, it's just like gosh darn it, can we just put that all aside and let's work together? That's what's important. and and realizing that we can all be at that space at any time,

[16:34]  right? Addiction doesn't just uh hap it can happen overnight. Life could happen and all of a sudden you've taken the wrong thing and got into the wrong thing and all of a sudden now that was a lifetime of you trying to fight to get back. Um so I I I hear you on that, man. But also I'm a big believer. I just want to kind of talk to your leadership a little bit. What role do you play now with um Clear Slate? Yeah, I'm I'm the CEO of Clean Slate. Um, and uh, yeah, I've been here for three years.

[17:03]  So, I asked that is because you also come from real estate. I'm a big believer that life happens and we learn from every single stage of our lives. What do you take from that real estate world? I mean, the fancy, you know, buildings that are going up that you're a part of and now you go into from fancy to now broken, but you want them to be this fancy thing, right? what are you taking from the real estate world that has allowed you to be in this role today from the leadership perspective? Yeah, you know, I think the progression to the role I'm in today and and really thinking about the real estate aspect, um, you know, I think there's certain pieces of the puzzle from my experience that certainly I learned in the real estate world that I've been able to transfer over and some of that's on the financial front, the knowledge of working with banks and and maybe not so much the leadership that that's the structure and the knowledge and things that we're while um real estate to healthcare is not always transferable uh there's a lot of those pieces that I was able to bring over. But I think from the leadership front is really working with people. And when we think about the real estate world and specifically in construction and we were building high-end homes, you know, one moment you might be working with with someone that does have, you know, a great deal on net worth and they're they're very important in the community from, you know, a role or responsibility elected official or, you know, they're an attorney or anything along those lines. and communicating with them and then you're turning the corner and you're you're you're trying you know you're you're you're working with uh the the contractors or the team members and you know in some instances they may not even speak like English and so you're trying to like how do I navigate this and how do we talk and how do we make sure we communicate so I think just understanding people and understanding how to best try to communicate um and and try to incent you and get, you know, I think just have alignment and um and I think some of those pieces just understanding people is really the the biggest takeaway from the real estate world into healthcare.

[19:08]  Okay. All right. And then in the space of of this organization, I can only imagine that you've experienced some changes. One of the biggest changes that probably happening right now is everyone trying to figure out how can they implement AI within their organization. Yeah. Um, some thinking that it's replacing um, care is replacing the human factor of things. I'm a big believer that no, man, it's removing the crap that gets in the way to be quite frank, right? It's automating the things that we hate. Um, so many people went to school for something but then end up doing all this admin repetitive task and they're like, "This is not what I went to school for." Do you see anything? Are you guys implementing anything that really um finally allows you and allows the staff to breathe or thinking about anything that could possibly do that?

[19:54]  Absolutely. Yeah. Um I I I'm in agreement with you. I think there's a great opportunity here to utilize some form of technology and improve what we do and reconnect people, which is crazy as that sounds. Um, I can tell you that from from the initial phone call there there's sometimes our patients they struggle with making that initial phone call and saying I need an appointment because I have a problem, you know, or or I I I I want help. That's a very hard phone call for people to make.

[20:28]  And so we've got a highly trained call center that, you know, we we really want to mo make sure we focus on that compassion. We're able to use AI tools to help us navigate some of those conversations. It's real- time learning. It provides us, you know, some whether it be scripting or recommend recommended ways we can navigate to help that patient get into care. And and I think from a training perspective, that's been fantastic. That human connectivity is so important, especially that initial phone call. And then when you we take it over to the the actual encounter with a doctor or a nurse practitioner or physician's assistant. I think we've all been in the provider where they just stare and they're clicking. Yeah. Yeah. Tell me how you're feeling. What's what's going on today? Right. And and could you imagine if you and I are having to have a conversation while we're doing this? You know, it's there's no connection. And we're really really big believers in in this patient population. The patients diagnosed with substance use disorder. That human connection is so important because so many times they've lost it. They've lost connectivity with their families and friends. And so, you know, while there's there's avenues for tele medicine where there's opportunities for to get online and get a script or or anything along those lines, we believe that that human connection is really really important. So, now we think about healthcare today. Back to this hunting and pecking and talking. AI tools are allowing our providers to have conversations with our patients, engagement with our patients, and then there's that transcribing side which will then take care of the documentation and you know the the payer world and working with the managed care organizations and the Medicaid world, there's a lot of documentation needed. You know, there's a lot of boxes you need to check and code you need to put in and we're constantly being reviewed and and asked for clarification. The AI tools will help in two ways. One, reestablish that human connection, that face-to-face conversation, and then two, accomplish what the payers want by capturing the information from the conversation, checking the appropriate boxes, still reviewed by the provider, but it makes the entire encounter much more efficient. And that connection is so important, especially when we're talking about substance use disorder. So, yeah, I think we we're are embracing AI. We're we're looking at a variety of ways it can work and help support our teams and make things more efficient.

[22:54]  I love that. And and you you are right. I think that it allows us to just have a better interaction human to human. But I always look back at the experience, right? So many people, if you have a bad experience, you just don't go back and you don't say anything about it. You just don't go back. But people pay for experience. So if you're telling me as you mentioned I can go to the doctor and now I'm having full eye contact and you're listening to me. The experience just went up that much all because we've implemented AI and there's still a fear though, right? So how are you leading a team to think AI and go through AI when there's there's people thinking like it's going to replace my job, but you're doing it you're helping people to use AI without losing the mission. How are you doing stuff like that? Yeah, I I think some of that is um you know when making things, you mentioned it, right? It's about experience and the unfortunate reality of substance use disorder. And for those that are listening that that have a family member or a loved one or a friend that's encountered it, recognize that one of the challenges for for people that start treatment is staying in treatment. There's a high percentage of people that discontinue treatment after the first or second or third visit. We've got to keep patients engaged, especially when it comes to substance use disorder. Well, how can we do that? There's there's little things that we can document and put in the medical record and and it can create that connectivity where I may remember I'll use the medical record and AI to help me, you know, ask a question about maybe your life experience or your wife or your child create that connectivity. Oh my gosh. Now, now it is using AI to help navigate that conversation. But now you've been able to express eye to eye face to face without staring at a piece of equipment. Hey, I just want to follow up on our last conversation. You mentioned you had a big event with with your child and how'd that go? Experience just went up. Now we have a patient that might be more engaged and more likely to stay in care. That's what we want.

[24:58]  That's so important especially in the space

[25:00]  because they feel seen. they feel like you care, right? It's those simple little things, man. I just feel truly make a difference. Um, and a good leader like yourself seeing it ahead of the time. It's, you know, about how you experience people. And when you talk about real estate, that is so huge is how you make that person feel when they're about to make the biggest investment of their lives.

[25:19]  Yeah.

[25:19]  Like, you know, that that's huge. So, you you talked about some of the knowledge you take away. Of course, it's the same thing here. People are making these investments. Probably the biggest investment they'll ever make in their life.

[25:28]  Yeah.

[25:28]  Right. Because Yeah. And themselves. in in this space. This is investing in themselves. In the real estate world, you're exactly right. There's the salesmanship piece of it. There's the recognition that someone is making a big financial investment and and there's that emotional connection to that financial investment. And what we need to make sure is, you know, we sell someone today on the investment in themselves. That's huge, right? How can I help you invest in yourself? And that's what it means to stay in care. Absolutely. Yeah, I I I think when I hear a lot of people that's in the the kind of the health care space, they always say, um, we have to rebuild, but what what would it take to rebuild trust in the healthcare system that's left so many behind? You know, I hear that all the time and yeah, rebuild, rebuild, but what are we rebuilding? What is it going to take?

[26:19]  You know, I I think that um I I can go real high level or down there. and high level is we've got to rethink this whole payer structure and how the states are are funded and Medicaid and you know we got to not politicize it and we have to think about these needs and and and I think that's that's a part of it and then I think the rebuilding of the trust is is really that connection and I have a wonderful you know provider that I've gone to for many years and you know starting to see the strain in in how those encounters are taking place you know and you can see the it's the same thing we talked about. You know, we've got to reconnect the physicians and help them do what they signed up for. You know, when when you talk to doctors and nurse practitioners, registered nurses, etc., they got into this for a reason. They want to help people. They didn't get the into this so they can document and check the boxes and send that to the payer and then not get paid and have to go back and reestablish or redoment. That's not why they did this. And so, we've got to reestablish that. We've got to bring that back to the table and uh and that's the challenging piece. It's the balance and in the leadership roles, you know, that's that's where we have to I want to take away the the financial aspect for those that are providing care, but the environment we're in today, it it doesn't allow you to do that so much. And that's that's the piece that if we can do that, I think that'd be a huge leap or take some steps in that direction. I want to kind of go backwards a little bit. Just a little bit here. We talked about seen and heard. What does a seen and heard experience actually look like for someone that's in recovery?

[28:02]  Seen and heard. I'm sorry.

[28:04]  Uh what does that experience look like for someone that's actually in recovery? Seen and heard.

[28:08]  Yeah. Oh gosh. um when when I have an opportunity to talk to patients and and I wish I could do it a whole lot more but but the stories that I hear especially those that are well on their journey in recovery is they haven't been seen and they haven't been heard and they have been um disconnected from loved ones you know loved ones who've tried and tried and I've seen both sides of this um you know at some point people hit rock bottom and at that point they have been unfortunately you know they they feel like they are invisible and they don't feel as though there's anybody to support them and some of the the community programs out there there's just not enough resources and so you know a lot of people unfortunately get lost in the system and you know it's pretty amazing when you just sit down and you talk to a patient and you have a conversation. Um, our team members experience it every day. It's it's just such a rejuvenating experience for both parties because here I am just spending some time with somebody and there they are receiving and being heard. That's monumental. And I'm telling you, they come back for treatment when they feel as part of it. This connection with whether it be someone at the front desk, whether it's one of our counselors or one of our providers, it's huge. I and on what you're saying there right people just feeling heard and seen and happy they come back. I also think that um people get too caught up on the first time they try it doesn't work out for them.

[29:49]  Oh yeah.

[29:49]  And I like to always give the the response to that of it's like a relationship. The first person Chris I can only imagine you dated probably not the person that you married

[30:00]  right?

[30:01]  I mean if it is kudos but not everyone has that opportunity right? We have to continue today to really find that one. Um, and I think so many people give up too early.

[30:10]  Yeah.

[30:10]  You know, and and I just wanted to kind of piece that because I've experienced of going through therapy and the first person actually was tellahalth and I realized that tellahalth wasn't my thing. I love that in energy and when I went in person and I found that first person. I tell you Chris, I've only went to therapy one time and I you would think that I went and this was years ago and you would think that I go all the time but the experience that she gave me allowed me to realize like oh my god she was so good and if I ever have to go back it's to that person

[30:43]  because that's the experience you provided you know. So it it

[30:47]  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's feeling seen and feeling heard, right? When you find that person, it's going to make them want to come back time and time again because and it and when we can eliminate some of that that documentation, I'll be very honest, I don't know if she was documenting at all because I just felt like it was just me and her having a conversation like we were friends for a very long time and she was just asking me questions that I had the answers to. I just never thought that way.

[31:12]  Yeah. And that's what I love so much because people think therapy or any of this help is someone that's telling you what to do. It's not that.

[31:20]  It is someone just having a conversation allowing you to see life a little bit differently than what you're probably used to.

[31:26]  Right. Can you agree? Is that is that some of the how

[31:29]  these conversations go?

[31:31]  Absolutely. Yeah. you know, and and um you know, I can tell you as you're speaking, I was thinking about, you know, some of the some of my first experiences in healthcare and uh when I transitioned from real estate, I actually worked at a correctional healthcare organization. And that's a group that went on a mission trip

[31:50]  and what I quickly saw was there's so many people incarcerated in this country that that have not felt seen and heard that gone down the wrong path. they've made some bad decisions or life has happened. And I can tell you I have an incredible um just respect for the nurses and and the docs and those that are working in correctional healthcare. It's it's a bit of an area that a lot a lot of people know about. Um

[32:22]  but once someone's incarcerated, they they're provided health care. and some of the most compassionate, missionoriented people I've ever experienced work in corrections. And that was some of what I saw for the first time. When a nurse goes to a correction, they go into into an area and they go to a cell and they start talking to a patient with compassion, the whole demeanor changes for someone that's incarcerated. That someone's talking to me. They're not yelling at me. They're not telling me where I need to go. They're actually speaking to me as a human being. We viewed them as patients. You know, that's huge. And so I quickly learned how important impactful relationships are, especially in healthcare. And when you see someone that has been incarcerated that unfortunately has not had the the ability or the access to care and they start receiving it, it's game changer. Now, the unfortunate reality is there's a lot of recidivism in this country. I think it goes back to where the resources are when someone has the opportunity to leave incarceration and they get back into the community and and there's just not that bridge to help them get back on their feet. That's where we we struggle as a country and that's some opportunities I'd love to see as bridge and that's ultimately what led me here as an opportunity to hopefully help people break that cycle. you know, um if we can give people treatment while they're not behind bars and and hopefully it it not only stops the cycle but reconnects them with all the things that they loved, you know, at some point. So that that's what's so motivating and and exciting. And to your point, that connection is meaningful really.

[33:58]  What can the average person do today to end the cycle of addiction in their own communities? Yeah, I I think it's um

[34:08]  we talked about being heard and seen. Is it just meeting people at what they're at? H being more um okay to have these conversations. You know, a lot of times when we see homelessness, um we just automatically put that stigma that they're bad people, you know, don't talk to them.

[34:25]  Um is it those conversations that we should be having on a regular just saying hello to people more? When should we start?

[34:32]  Yeah. try try to show some form of compassion and love for those that you're encountering whether you know them or not. You know, we how how often do we we go on the other side of the street when we see someone, you know, that's that may may look like they're in need. The reality is we we turn to blay. Now, we have to remain safe and we have to remain vigilant and be thoughtful, but at the same time, there's so many times when we encounter people that that are asking for help or may not verbally be asking for help, but are in need of help and we simply aren't there. You know, a hello or any kind of, you know, recognition of that person can go a long way. Like we were talking about eye contact, say hello, how are you? It's meaningful. things like that all the way up to volunteer all the way to

[35:18]  to really get involved on the political side and and see what we can do to help people that are in need.

[35:24]  Right now there's there's just a

[35:25]  there's a there's you know certain gaps of what we're doing as a country. I think we've done a wonderful job

[35:32]  addressing overdoses and there are incredible results that are shown where we've reduced deaths from overdoses. We have to link people into care at that point. And and I think that's the next step I think is really important.

[35:49]  I would love to people to also understand that some substance use disorder isn't a statistics. It's truly someone that we love.

[35:56]  Yeah.

[35:57]  You know, we all experience it somewhere in our families. It could be our siblings. It could be our parents, grandparents. Um and it's up to us to really break that cycle. And it happens with like you mentioned just allowing someone to feel seen and heard. It's not judging someone by who they are today, but how can we help them become a better version tomorrow.

[36:16]  Exactly.

[36:16]  And sometimes it's exactly that. It's just listening and and and hearing them out.

[36:20]  Um I I want to talk to as we start to wrap up, let's talk to those leaders, man, who've lost their spark who who now um just realizing I don't know what to do. What does purpose look like on the other side of burnout?

[36:33]  Yeah, burnout. That's been a that's been a hot topic as of late within the healthcare world. And I think I think that that is certainly we get lost in that noise, you know, and health care providers specifically, they've had a tough time over the last bunch of years. We know what's happened with COVID and we know what's happened postco and we recognize the the challenges that that we face when it comes to how do you get paid and the financial burden and we all get caught up in that that noise and uh you know as an executive team we're constantly talking about getting out to the centers reconnect with our team members make sure we have that connectivity ourselves because it's real easy as a leader to get caught up and I got to look at the f the financial statement and the balance sheet I I've got to talk to the banks and I've got to talk to the board and I've got to talk to these, you know, the payers and and you lose you lose sight of what you're really trying to do. And I think as a leadership team, it's just so important to continue to come back to your mission, come back to what you're you're trying to accomplish and and really focus in on what's meaningful. And so that that's so important because otherwise you're going to get burned out. You'll be going through the motions. You'll be sitting there thinking about the documentation. you know, I got to check this box. I got, you know, and rinse repeat. Uh, you got you got to reconnect with the purpose.

[37:54]  You're you're right, man. I leave you with this blind question. First of all, I want to say thank you for your services because I didn't say that in the beginning, but you've led soldiers, you save lives, and you build companies, but what's a moment of failure or fear you've never told your team about because you still haven't fully forgiven yourself? Got to put you on on the hot seat there, Chris. Sorry, I came with this question, but I had to end with a good one. Yeah. Yeah. How many listeners you have? Oh boy. Um, you know, from from a leadership perspective I I I would I would say there's there's um there's moments where I have made decisions on people's employment

[38:36]  that um that I was too fast. I made the wrong decision. I made it with emotion and I've impacted people's livelihoods. And you know, as as I talk to different leaders about the idea of, hey, we've got this underperforming team member and we need to make a change. You know, I want to make sure that we give that the utmost thought and and sometimes you do have to make those hard decisions of discontinuing someone's employment, allow them to be successful elsewhere. you know, it's not always the right, you know, like you mentioned, you date someone, maybe that's not the right relationship on the front end. Maybe this isn't the right fit for somebody, but I've definitely made decisions in my career where I I look back and I think about it and I think, you know,

[39:24]  yeah,

[39:24]  I I could have handled that differently and I have negatively impact someone's livelihood, their their financial situation, their their family situation at times. And um yeah, that's tough. I I I mean, thank you for sharing that and I hear you. I've been in leadership where I've had to make those calls. It's always hard to make those calls, right? Because we have empathy. We care for people. Um but I also been on the side where I've been in companies where I felt undervalued and I've either had to walk away or life just happened, right? Like whatever that may look like. And it is so easy for us to dwell on the negative at that time.

[40:02]  Yeah. Yeah,

[40:02]  but as you mentioned, sometimes it sparks people to do their own thing,

[40:07]  right?

[40:07]  To see their own value, their own worth. And I would always have to when letting people go, speak it at that level. There's going to be other great opportunities out there for you and hoping that you take everything you learned here to implement into your next journey. But, you know, when I walked away from um the airline industry, I was there for 5 years. I loved it. Uh I was facilitating, as I mentioned, traveling the world. somebody else a dime. How great is that? However, it wasn't filling my cup.

[40:36]  I mean, the work that I was doing fill was filling my cup, but the company wasn't I was feel I was still feeling undervalued. And it came to the point where that we had they you know, pandemic changed so much. So, they were giving out these optout packages. Um and this is probably two years after the pandemic, but I decided, you know what, I gave myself two years when I took this position um a facilitator. I got to go. I felt undervalued. And I remember one of my leaders saying, "Ephrain, if anything, you're one of the ones I'm not so worried about. I know you're going to do great things." So, it allowed me to leave with my head up high. Even though I didn't feel valued, a leader realized my value because a lot of times it's not just the organ, it's not just a one individual. It's an organization and you just got to follow, you know, follow that ladder, that command that's being provided. Not that we want to do it as leaders, it's just what we're being told at times. and him, you know, me leaving with that. I I would always remember that he said that to me. I'm never worried about your Ephrain. I know you do well on your own. And sometimes we just have to have that conversation and understand that we're just letting someone spread their wings. They're too talented for our organization. You know, they can do greater things if they go and do it on their own. Um, and I would always remember that's really why I don't get into politics to be quite frank because I I believe that I could do so much more from the nonprofit level than being at the political level where there's so much you see it man so much fight so much against one another. And I remember trying to get into the commissioner race here locally and seeing how nasty they can be to each other.

[42:10]  Why would I want to do that? You know, Chris, but anyway, man, I leave you with what's your blind question for the next leader, Chris? Yeah, I'd say uh well that was a good blind question by the way. Um

[42:21]  I knew you would love it.

[42:22]  Oh man. Uh you know what's one piece of leadership advice that that you've received that turned out to be wrong? Um and and why?

[42:31]  That's good. That actually no one has see that's I love you Chris. I love you for that because no one talks about that. What is the wrong leadership advice? No, it is true. And and even though it's wrong, we learn from it

[42:43]  100%.

[42:44]  That's what I love about life. Even when you do something wrong, you learn from it. Just don't make the same mistake twice. Then it's on you. The first time we could give it a break the second time. That's on you now, Chris.

[42:55]  I learned from you today. I love that that that leader that you had that had that conversation, the words they used. I think that's fantastic.

[43:02]  So, yeah, man. You know what, Chris? I when I was leaving, too, I was not a fan of his. Yeah. because he got into a role I knew him when he was a facilitator and then he got into a role as supervisor and I just felt that he lost himself in the change

[43:15]  and maybe it wasn't him maybe it was just his leadership also trying to micromanage him and it was his leader was to totally a micromanager and I'd seen that with my own eyes so as I was leaving man I was not happy with him I was not happy with him I was not happy with my other supervisor I just felt like you guys taking this role and as you're great people you guys didn't care enough about your team And I would be and you when I would vocalize I become the bad employee, right? Even though I've given them all everything, I open my mouth once to stand my ground and and to support everybody else, I automatically become a problem.

[43:51]  Um so that same individual, man, when I was leaving, he realized that we went on the same page. He actually gave me a book. Um, it's called it's called The Success Principles by Jack Canfield, the guy that used to do um Chicken Soup for the Soul. I don't know if you remember those books when we were living younger, right?

[44:10]  So, I'm like, "Oh, this is the guy." But it it was, you know, and he wrote a nice little thing in the inside as well. And this is somebody that I wasn't seeing eye to eye with.

[44:18]  He says, "Ephra, this is not a brand new book, but it changed my life. And as you continue to do what you're doing, I just want to change yours." And that's the last conversation that and what I told you. said, and uh you know what, because of that, I end up respecting him because of that.

[44:32]  That's great.

[44:32]  And I would call him and say, "Hey," and I called him a year later after life happened, I said, "Hey, man. I want to just thank you for the opportunity." Because at times when we're in it, we don't realize why life is happening the way it it is. But then we can sit here in another day like God is that good.

[44:47]  Yeah.

[44:48]  That one door closes, the other one opens. But if you dwell on the negative, and I've experienced it from brothers and sisters. I'm I'm one of 10, and I still have siblings that are still dwelling on the negative, dwelling on the past, and they haven't seen what's ahead.

[45:04]  I couldn't do that. I took the sexual abuse, I took the adoption, Chris, and I said, "How do I continue to break cycles? How do I continue to make a difference for people that are going that that are going to experience what I've experienced and hope that they don't have to experience that, right? to be more vocal on these on these conversations. But anyway, yeah, man, from leadership perspective, kudos to him. Kudos to you, Chris, for making the transition as well. Military, real estate. Now, you own in the space. You've think about it, you've always been helping people.

[45:34]  You're in the people. You're in the people giving people an opportunity space. I don't know if you realize that, Chris, but your whole life, you've been changing lives, man. from giving someone peace uh you know peace at night like myself because you were serving our country real estate helping others getting to these homes that they never thought was imaginable. Pretty sure you had to pull strings and do things and bend over backwards for people. But now look what you're doing man in the healthcare space really make an impact. So we thank you and u where can people find you? What is your LinkedIn? What is the website if people wanted to find out more about the organization?

[46:05]  Yeah, cleanSlatescenterers.com. Um probably the best area to to learn about our organization. And it's really the team that makes a difference. I I got the easy job. I do whatever I can to support them and they're doing the real hard work in the community. So I just I owe it to them and great great organization. Great group of people.

[46:23]  And are you on LinkedIn? People can connect with you on LinkedIn.

[46:25]  I am. Yeah. Chris Booth. Uh

[46:27]  all right, man. People got to connect with you because I can only imagine this is just this is this is just the beginning, man. There's so much ahead of you, Chris. And I don't think that you realize it, man. So I appreciate

[46:35]  I appreciate you. I appreciate it.

[46:38]  Yeah. Guys, if you guys enjoying these conversations, don't always don't always what am I talking about? Uh, always remember to like, subscribe, and comment because that's how the conversations continue to show up on people's radars. A lot of times it's that one thing that we need to hear to change our lives is that one conversation is that one person that you realize, wow, that person's just like me that would then also change the trajectory of your life. Don't be afraid to meet people where they're at. Don't be afraid to get uncomfortable with yourself. Drop the ego because that's what's holding you back at times is the ego. It's the pride. And there's so many people like Chris um and those at uh Clear State that is is really trying to make a difference. So I appreciate you guys watching. My name is Ephrain. This is Chris. We'll catch you guys on the next episode. Lers.