From Wall Street to Behavioral Health: Steve Page's $0 to 3000 Employee Journey

[0:00]  [music] Welcome back to the episode here on the Heart and Hustle Podcast. Today's guest though, the man, the myth, the legend, Stephen, or Steve, not Stephen. Why don't I give an extra end at the end of it? Steve, h good morning, man. How are you?

[0:28]  Good morning. I'm I'm good. Great to be here.

[0:31]  Say man, listen uh always an honor to be here with other great leaders that are just kind of speaking in the space of impact. And I ask you, man, this this space wasn't always what you were doing. Can we kind of talk about how you got to this space to this organization?

[0:44]  Yeah. I mean, I I don't have a dramatic origin story. I my my kind of move into um operations and behavioral health happened you the moment really happened at 2 am with my newborn and uh it's the only time I was seeing him I was currently working in in healthcare but in investment banking and uh recognized that the only time he was awake and I was home was in the middle of the night and I I made him a promise that I was going to be present and shortly after I got a call from a head hunter to look at an opportunity in New York where I was living and um private equitybacked startup business in the behavioral space and uh gave me the opportunity to to stay local uh but take a risk. I moved into um that role and it and it uh you know one of the best decisions I ever made it uh so kind of by chance but um was [clears throat] really uh really fortunate. It fit me really well uh and and I haven't looked back.

[1:48]  So I ask you man um you make the decision you had the conversation with your son. Kudos to you as a father. I think it's really um crucial that as men we show up in in our you know kids lives. So kudos to that. But is this a question that you're having with God? Like what I can't imagine you just making decision on your own. Is it qu is something you're talking to with your wife on this career change? What does it look like when you're in those moments?

[2:11]  Yeah. I mean, you know, I had I had the fortune of being able to take a risk. Um, you know, it was it was a it was a a big change. I I don't want to make light of it. I, you know, probably cut pay in half and, you know, took a risk on a startup business and, um, my wife, fortunately, we we we were at at at Goldman together and and she, you know, she was going to continue and allowed me to take that risk. Um it wasn't so much um it it was it was about creating a life that I could both have a job that was exhilarating uh and be present with my family. But it wasn't so much that it's less work. It you know I think being an entrepreneur is not uh not an easy path. [laughter] So and it's certainly not less stress. It's you know it's actually quite a bit more stress which uh drives the work side but but it's more flexible. you can create a life around it. I love it. I, you know, I do what I do because it's it's a passion. Um, you know, gets me up every morning and not uh enough for the wrong reasons and and [clears throat] I can still carve out uh time and be present.

[3:21]  Was this your first uh rodeo in entrepreneurship?

[3:24]  Yeah. Yeah. So I was uh I was finance education uh you know University of Texas uh Austin undergrad um MBA finance again and then investment banking. So I just happened into the healthc care group within investment banking. This opportunity that was presented to me was in an area behavioral health uh but freestanding psychiatric hospitals that I I knew well because of the work I was doing at the bank. I had a lot of um uh belief that it was a you know a sector that was important and um and just a good you I was going to put basically my whole investment in there right I mean that's what you're doing when you choose

[4:04]  uh to be an entrepreneur you're every you're kind of all in and I was comfortable with that as an investment as well as um you know how I wanted to spend my time and uh and it and it it worked really well it worked well enough that I could then um was the CFO of that business but and raised money to start Sun and um that uh you know that experience is you know if you can find your way to to be an entrepreneur run a business and I I I can't I can't imagine anything else I it's it's really a blessing

[4:38]  and how many years have you been doing it now entrepreneurship

[4:41]  so this well that was uh 07 um son I started in 14 uh 13 technically but it got uh funded in 14. Um so yeah, this this business um you know, we're we're now unbelievably 11 years in. We we didn't start our first hospital though until 16. So a little less in terms of operations.

[5:05]  Hey man, that's still so many years people fail within the first years, give up within the first the second third year. Uh what what I love about this is you kind of mentioned you still have the stress, but doesn't it feel better that you get to stress about your own problems than actually stressing about somebody else's problems? Steve,

[5:21]  well, yeah, for sure. I I love it. I mean, I what I love about it is, you know, the nature of being an entrepreneur is you're solving um a puzzle, right? There's some reason that somebody hasn't figured out how to provide this service, whatever you're doing.

[5:35]  Yeah.

[5:36]  And in you know, it could be a barber shop, it could be, you know, there aren't enough around. It could be anything but somebody hasn't filled that gap. You take the risk to fill the gap and you kind of make the estimates around is there a need for my service? Can I do it, you know, in a kind of sustainable way? Um, and that and and the rules change, you know, it's not static. And so you have to keep solving that. And uh it it's to me it's exhilarating. And then and then you have to move people. um you know our team it's large and we have to figure out how to move them all in the same direction to achieve whatever strategy we've come up with.

[6:13]  So starting off you mentioned the first hospital didn't come up till 2014 was that correct?

[6:19]  I funded in 2014 but it and then we we did denovo hospital so we started the hospital so the actual opening of the first hospital wasn't until 16

[6:27]  16 and is it still just one or did you actually grow? So we kept doing that. We we opened another one in 17, two more in 18.

[6:35]  Wow.

[6:36]  Yeah. And and they're big, you know, for you know for psychiatric hospitals they're large and um and it's expensive and so we took a pause as you know for development uh to you know kind of make sure all those were working well. Mhm.

[6:52]  Um and as they all kind of hit profitability uh sustainable operations the uh co hit and then it you know we kind of one thing after the other from then but um we rolled with it. Fortunately we hit profitability exactly before co I mean it was kind of the timing was incredible and uh that's a a moment that could really uh have have taken down the business. It it just happened that our our operations all all started to click just before um I think we hit profitability in 19 and u like fall of 19 and so by the time COVID came around we were sustainable um obviously census fell immediately but it rebounded pretty quickly just because of the nature of the business hospitals can't close right that's essential service

[7:40]  I mean who would have thought Steve you you take this risk right and just because you wanted a better life for you your family something more that you were able to control and here you are opening up hospitals not just one multiple like did was this part of the vision?

[7:54]  Oh yeah. So what we had done at Ascend is uh we we started the first hospital as far as I know. Um and I say we I was in '05 before I arrived. So they had started the first hospital in 15 years. No hospitals had been

[8:09]  open. In fact they were closing throughout the 90s as managed care kind of changed the business model. Um, so when it opened it was just like I mean it the demand was incredible. It was it it just you know you make this investment you know 104 beds that one and and and all of a sudden you know within months it it you can't keep up and so they knew they had something and so when I joined them in in '07 they had just that one hospital but we started four more um and then we purchased four and in each case um you know the the need was just incredible but um and and the investor sold that business in 12 and I Um, I had that year-long non-compete and I started in 13. But with a thesis that there's still more opportunity out there for Denovo, I I felt like it was less like we had covered it. Others had started to start hospitals. We, you know, we were the first, but we weren't then at that point the only and that there were pockets um [clears throat] and then uh that to start hospitals that was thesis, but I thought we'd also do some acquisitions and and and just kind of grow wherever there was a need. And you mentioned the piece of the puzzle. I'm a big believer, you know, especially in entrepreneurship and life that we have all the pieces of the puzzle in front of us. It's just how to put them together is is really how we look at it. Um, what is that unmet need as you're looking at these puzzle pieces in in this space that most people don't even know exists and how did Sun decide to actually go there and meet those needs?

[9:38]  Yeah. So, um, so Sun is an acronym for solving unmet needs and it's it's more than just our branding. That's really the filter through which we think about all of our business decisions. And so um we um first is is trying to figure out you know where where is the need and the way we define it is is you know as people try to navigate their behavioral health needs they get stuck. they get stuck. One because the system's pretty hard to navigate, but also because uh providers haven't figured out how to provide the services in a you know sustainable way. You know, reimbursement in in behavioral health is pretty light. And so there are areas that it just people haven't figured out the business model. You can't do it. You know, rural is an example. Um uh there are a number of of areas and and and psychiatric hospitals was one of them. Although you know I think that's less you know I think uh it's still a need um that the dynamics that you need to start a hospital are more than just a need for a few beds. You actually need some scale or you're not going to be able to reach profitability. Um so you know might be a need for 20 beds but that need may never get filled because nobody can figure out how to do that profitably. Um so that's an example and um and that that continues to serve us. So we as we think about entering new services today, they're not hospital at the moment. We're not thinking as much about new denovo hospitals, but there are plenty of areas within behavioral health that have a a need.

[11:13]  And you just mentioned kind of on the hospital space at some point that we're closing. There's there's the need. Um why have psychiatric hospitals been such a taboo or forgotten part of the healthare system, you think? Yeah, I mean it's it's pricing. You know, the the reality is um funding in our space basically funding is the answer. People chase, you know, areas where you have sufficient funding and you see that happen to the extreme in the bad in the wrong direction. I I believe I think you um you people chasing uh I call it the the kind of the current shiny object isn't necessarily the right business model. Um the hospital area um the issue has been um the funding only works at a certain certain parameters. The rate has to be enough. The demand has to be enough. Um geography their catchment area has to be accessible. Uh patients have to be able to get there. Some geographies are very very difficult to navigate. Uh too much traffic. And so um the what we have found is we we don't generally we wouldn't build a hospital under 100 beds um just you know we don't have the economy to scale we don't break even till we get to 70. So um to give you a sense there are roughly 1,500 psychiatric units across the country. Um these are these are medical hospitals that have a psychiatric unit. So you know amongst the many different services they'll have psych. Those units average 30 beds. We'd lose money at 30 beds. We open a hospital. We're still losing money at 30. And so since 30 and so you can almost guarantee those are all losing money. And so um there about 1500 of those about 500 freestanding psych hospitals. Those average about 100 beds. And at 100 beds they should be making money. And so that's part of that dynamic is just economies of scale have to be present to make it work.

[13:10]  Hey, real quick. Have you enjoyed the podcast? We first want to say thank you and we also just want to give you a little insight of what we're up to at Francis. Some don't even realize that we're working with organizations to help them use AI to create that real human communication experiences where that's actually supporting your your families, those patients or the entire community. We're actually creating tech that connects. Check it out. Francis.ai. And do you think right now with what's happening at the government level um we talk about just government funds we you mentioned reimbursements and and policy is that kind of taking an effect to what you guys are doing and how you guys are operating?

[13:49]  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's everything. I mean it's um it you know we you know the health care system is is a from a provider side a set of of incentives and so they incent us to do one thing or another and people flock and and that and that's driving you know what our health care system looks like and the way the incentives are set today um yeah they're about to change a lot we we are predominantly Medicaid we probably you know hospitals are probably 60% Medicaid and we also do home and community based services that are you know 99% % Medicaid.

[14:21]  Yeah.

[14:22]  Um and so so the uh um I can't call it the one big beautiful bill. Um so OB3 uh will dramatically change uh that that scenario if if if implemented the way that it's currently designed. Um you know, politicians being politicians put all the goodies up front, right? The tax breaks are right away and all the real cruelty happens later. And I think um what we're seeing today, the government shutdown around the subsidies for the exchange, it's this is this is nothing. This is like a nuisance compared to what's coming. And what what will happen,

[15:03]  you know, if all of it gets implemented, particularly what begins in 2028 when there's a new administration, you know, politicians are savvy that way. Um you know, you'd have hospitals failing. You just you're just taking away so much of the reimbursement. Um, you know, people get upset about the provider tax and it's a gimmick. Well, it's it's it's how Congress set up payment for these hospitals. So, [clears throat] without it, it doesn't work. And so, you take it away, you're going to have a hospitals fail. Uh, so yeah, it's always a factor. We um we feel good about our strategy around that. Um, but it's it's an active strategy. I was going to say that like what what does that look like and how does it position yourself for the next five to 10 uh years? Is it just thinking different working outside the box um creating your own lane? Is that does that what it look like Steve?

[15:54]  Yeah, it for for sure it does. So we um we we specifically about provider tax we have some provider tax exposure but by the time it comes around we will be it won't be what uh you know it won't be critical to what we do. Now, I I actually think that can will get kicked. I I just, you know, they aren't going to let all those hospitals shut down. They're going to have to find a smarter way. And I have thoughts on that if they want some ideas. But

[16:21]  there you go.

[16:22]  But, um, but we aren't going to hope that, you know, legislators change their, you know, the law. That's the law. We'll we'll model around it. So what what we're doing um [clears throat] so we we've we've made a pretty significant move in home and community based services and and the value to that uh to the to the payers is just really pretty extraordinary that they're providing um just great outcomes at um at very low cost. it it isn't hospital level. So, you're not getting the same you're not going to cover the same

[16:53]  Yeah.

[16:54]  um active, you know, suicidal uh those folks still need to go to hospital, but when they discharge, if they're getting into the home and community services, then they're very unlikely to move back into the hospital into that crisis care, which is which is great. So, you're you're lowering utilization, and we can do that. Um we're we're doing that in a number of states. So, that's one area we'll do it. Um but we'll diversify away so that we're not we're not you know come 2028 we're not exposed uh in a big way. But that that's what that's what that's that's what what we've done the whole time when I started the business affordable care act was going to create challenges and we you know we designed our way through that as well.

[17:35]  I ask you man is there any with just kind of the space that we're in innovation happening in a sense of technology that could also help out. I mean, so many people are kind of looking at the AI and how could we add that and leverage that as a um as a less overhead but still have the impact as if we're having five 10 more employees. Are you guys in that space as well leveraging?

[17:56]  Yeah, for sure. I I you know I I'm I'm super excited about it. I um we're using it pretty heavily in our intake department right now. Um so our intake when you get a um a referral you you might get a 100page facts and it could be a mix of pictures and you know kind of a disorganized um think of a PDF but it could it could have you know some of it's not you know very legible um and so our providers you know kind of have to quickly go through that make an assessment as to whether we can cover whe whether we can care for the patient or not whether they meet our criteria and then whether we have the ability to take care of them and um we have AI uh now look at that um referral in seconds. And so it's giving our pro our our providers a very good uh snapshot. We can ask any question we want of it. And so we have kind of we've arranged it the output that way. And uh and it's allowing us to respond quickly to uh to to the pro the referral source. Um, so that's a way um the there's a there's another um what I think would be gamechanging if if we could make it work. Um there's some there's some patient [clears throat] monitoring that I think can using machine learning that I think can can really help our staff. Um we've not we've not that is not in in deployment. Um we've done a little pilot on it but uh if we can if we can make that work that's another just incredible leaprog. So I think there are some areas and then and then there's also there's you know um [clears throat] like ambient um scribes so you can have AI listening and do a first ch first cut at the notes and things like that um that are kind of even at this point even more of a commodity but but some of some of the other areas that could can really change the game.

[19:45]  Yeah. No, everything that you're saying is definitely one of those game changers. Some that I've seen implement them um and some that as you mentioned are kind of early in the space. I think when we talk about just the ambient listening, I think there's so much leverage in that, right? It allows people to really do what they love more, Steve. Uh, and you know, really just focus on that patient versus always feeling that the need of documentation and and making sure that every eye is dotted and every tea is crossed because it's how you guys get paid, right? The documentation, that's just kind of one of the crucial pieces of it. So, if we can fix that, man, I think more people would even get into the space. We see what happened during pandemic. A lot of people left the healthcare just because they felt just kind of overwhelmed and exhausted on the work they were doing. Um, are are you are not not because I'm not I'm not in the healthcare space, but are we seeing a an increase on what that actually looks like? People coming back to this space of of healthcare.

[20:35]  Yeah. And I want to just circle back on something you just said, which is um it helps our staff and that that is we're not actually seeing any staff reduction. So that's that's I think what people miss is you know AI I think does cause some fear but the reality is I think it can just make [clears throat] the job

[20:50]  you it can it can make you so much more impactful in your job doing the work you want to be doing. So um anyway uh and then yeah we do see people coming back. Um obviously 22 was really tough across the country. I think uh wage inflation was spike in 22 was uh we couldn't keep up with it. Um we just couldn't hire, you know, we couldn't raise our prices. We couldn't raise our our our amount we paid enough to get people back. Uh and then um at the end of 22 that started to change. In 23 it it helped a lot. we, you know, we had we'd had increased um wages quite a bit, but we finally were getting people back. Um and then I think um interestingly um even all of these changes with what's happening uh to Medicaid, we're we're seeing some um some some additional staff through uh it might be a it might be a government agency that's getting consolidated and and so you know, staff are freeing up for that. Uh and and so we're taking advantage of some of that. Some really good people getting let go. Um and then quite frankly, recessions are always better for our space than most. Um you know, people uh with licenses that may not be fully utilizing them, maybe, you know, working part-time, uh need to come back and and and and do more work. And so we'll see that increase. And so the the uh the challenges in the economy actually can help our ability to staff.

[22:26]  I love that. I love that. Well, when you think about just the space, I want to kind of go back to that financial world. Do you think that sets you up for this space to to be this entrepreneur, to be this leader? I'm a big believer that life happens for certain reasons and it seems like you just kind of were a shoe into the space of growth. Um and your financial background really helped on that. Do you agree?

[22:44]  I do. I do and I learned a ton. I think both things um I you know I I use it I still use it every day. I can't not I think um really in terms of you know I'm in a I'm in a spreadsheet you know a lot a lot more than maybe uh is natural for my position but um it helps me think it helps me and the numbers help me think through it. I will say the part I learned when I shifted from being a CFO to a CEO um is culture. So, I I you know, I felt like I could really put a good strategy together. And um when I got to the CEO's seat, I learned that a strategy by itself is nothing. You know, it's just it's a paper weight. I I I don't I can't do it. I'm not going to treat any patients. That's not even licensed to do that. And so, if I can't move the organization, then uh nothing happens. And so, that's culture to me. And and so we spent a lot of time pushing out, you know, what is the culture we want? Um what do we and I think about it is as my actions create a ripple down effect that ultimately staff that are interacting with our patients um should feel and I and and and so I need to model exactly h how I think that should look all the way down to you know patient family interactions.

[24:01]  I love you bring that up culture. Um, a lot of organizations are really focusing on what that actually looks like. And for for you guys, Steve, what does it look like? What does culture look like? What are some of the things you guys are implementing to because I think that's what keeps people coming back um, right, your staff coming back happy, excited to do the work that you're doing, but also for others to kind of spread the word when they go and visit one of these hospitals like, man, the experience, the culture, the way they made me feel, all that. I think when we talk about hospitals in general, the experience, right, hasn't been the best. So people don't say, "Hey, you should go to this hospital." Because it wasn't a good experience anyway. But I think if you bring that culture, if you really help the staff, the staff start to trickle down to your patients. Um it does start from, you know, the leadership team as well. What does that look like for you guys, Steve? What are you guys putting into place that could ideally get this going?

[24:50]  Yeah. So you know, my my um thoughts on culture is every organization is going to have it. Whether you work on it or not, you're going to have a culture. And so we're really intentional about what we want it to be. At this point, we're about 3,000 employees. So, yeah, there's a lot there's a there's a lot of messaging, I think, that have to get pushed down. It's it you know, it's it's not easy to reach everyone. Um but but the we've been um we've been doing for years what we call um a values committee. and and we do uh when we when I first set our values, I I brought together line staff from our hospitals to create the values and what I told them was values should be the behaviors that you that we want that that we think are critical. So they were they were nominated. So these folks were um thought to be you know kind of our best caregivers and actually best culture carriers because it because it could have been um it could have been uh a receptionist. It could have been dietary. Uh it was obviously nursing. It was therapy uh mental health tech. It it was people that were direct you had direct patient contact but it didn't have to be. And so um so they came up with these behaviors and and so our our values are safety, teamwork, integrity and compassion. and we have then so we set that when we first did that values retreat and we we've we've done it every year since. We obviously don't change our values each year. We haven't changed them since the original. But we but we do get together and we talk about you know what are the things that um are limiting our ability to hire our ability to have um kind of the best impact we can have on our patients and their families and and try to and try to implement something new each year. So uh so that's one thing we do. Um I you know I think as mentioned earlier we kind of have to walk the walk. I I you know we are um we have let go some people that are fantastic uh and technically at their jobs and they're not great um they don't fit our culture. They're they're too harsh. They're too uh they don't they don't train. They don't work in a team. You know whatever the reason. Uh and and and when people I think recognize that you mean it, uh that you don't you know people aren't going to stick around if they're not if they're not living [clears throat] it. Um I think that has a a positive impact kind of through the organization. They they recognize that, you know, that's that's something that really matters to us.

[27:15]  It does too, man. When you think about especially those that are sitting in high seats, right? Um if if you don't match the values, everyone's seeing it. Yeah. you know, and I've kind of experienced that running a nonprofit, you know, myself and seeing that

[27:30]  I had to pull an event realizing that we didn't have the effort moving forward, right? Like not everyone was putting their weight in. It was like two or three out of 10. And at some point as a leader, you have to kind of, you know, wind that back and say, "Listen, we we have a lot of growing to do, you know, at the foundation level." Um, and people can try to scale, but the foundation is broken. you're making sure this foundation is is is a steady foundation and that we can build up and it looks like you guys are doing an amazing job, man. But I ask you if you could kind of wave a wand and and change one regulatory barrier overnight, what would that actually look like? Yeah. I mean, so the thing that we continue to fight for is um let us run a treatment plan that creates the outcomes that we that that quite frankly everybody's expecting, the patients expecting, the payers expecting, we're expecting. Um and so that that wand would be to change the way that we're incented and uh and allow us to um use any tool we think we need. if that's if that's housing, if that's um food, we you know, whatever we think we need to provide care um and to keep keep a patient healthy, uh allow us to do that. I'll say, you know, we do the things that we do today because they work when we think that there's obviously we're solving a need, but we also think it works in the current fee for service environment. And so that's what put us there. uh do I think you know kind of our are our ending our services with a discharge after seven days of somebody that came to us you know uh actively suicidal uh is is the best care I I don't I I think we should continue to hold on to them but we can't do it financially it doesn't work and so if I could change that I I would think about how we take care of patients on a longitudinal basis like let's think about let's think about them from uh a perspective of of months and years instead of you know the the five to seven days we interact with them. That's the hospital side.

[29:37]  Let's talk to those that may just have a different um perspective on this all, right? What would you say to someone who thinks behavior health just isn't a business opportunity in general?

[29:47]  Yeah. Yeah. I I I don't know if this is what you mean by the the profits over patients the there's a lot of there's a lot of so so one we're hospitals so that's we already get some arrows thrown at us for that and then because that's expensive care and then we're then we're forprofit so we get arrows for that not not me directly I don't feel it but but but I know as a

[30:10]  as a category um you know what I offer is I'm an entrepreneur I had the opportunity I saw saw something uh I saw GAP that needed um a solution. I thought I had a solution. Um I raised money and I raised money from private equity groups because that's who was available. You know, the government wasn't going to give me money. I it couldn't rent a not for profofit and raise the kind of money I needed. You know, donations weren't going to do it for me. And so I had one option and and and quite frankly um I have a lot a lot of respect for those guys. I mean they took a risk on somebody who'd never been a CEO needed you was asking for tens of millions of dollars telling them that you know we were going to you know start be a startup you know starting hospitals you know we're going to we're going to lose a lot of money before we we ever saw profitability years later it wasn't going to be fast and they said okay I mean I I I I really struggle and and we I mean we the number of lives we've saved because our team does the work we do. I mean, it's like it's profound. I It really is. And so so what what was the solution? The government should have done it. Well, they didn't do it. You know, the non forprofit should have stepped in. They didn't. And so that that to me is just like I don't care who gave us the money. I I I it didn't really matter to me. I had a I had a vision and and and they allowed me to uh to live it. And um quite frankly, they don't meddle in what we do. They don't tell me my staffing ratios. is they don't, you know, they don't do any of that. And so, um, I have a lot of respect for for them, you know, and taking that risk. And, um, I hope it works out for them financially, quite frankly, because other people then will fund, you know, similar you people, you know, that are in my position and and and coming to them with a real solution.

[32:07]  And for any other finance or business leader thinking of mission work, you kind of mentioned how you took a pay cut. I can imagine you gain that back in the work of purpose and passion, right? Like ideally that's really what fills our cup is not so much money. Money comes and goes. Um, what advice would you give to those that are kind of maybe wanting to do the same thing as a CFO in the financial world, but it's risky. It's a pay cut.

[32:33]  Yeah. I mean, look, everybody's got to think about that personally. I'm not going to tell people to take a leap that's dangerous for for their family. You you need to be able to to support. Um, I I was fortunate. My wife my wife worked. My she continues to work. She's she's a superstar. Um, but so I had that, you know, I had that flexibility. Um, I would say you're right. Uh, you know, kind of what we do, um, day what gets you up in the morning. The work you do, um, fills your cup. It it it is, uh, you know, you're happy to do it every every day. It it it, um, that's a that's an incredible place to be if you can get there. um and specifically people coming from finance. Um I think that really pay attention to the people side. Really pay attention to how are you going to move the organization because you know like me you can put it on paper and you might be really good at the math and it might all make a ton of sense but if you don't know how to move people um you're not going to implement your your your genius. It's just not going to happen. So, make sure you make sure you really want to dive into both sides.

[33:46]  I love that. Move people. You definitely have to at that role of a CEO. Um, as we start to wrap things up, I really want to kind of go back to because you mentioned this person multiple times. And I wish your wife is your partner. And a lot of times having that good partner at home is everything. What cuz when things get tough, when it seems like you should quit, I can imagine your wife was there was cheering you on and say, "Honey, you got this." And I say that because as a man, my wife was that for me and I don't know that ladies and women get the credit enough. Not only are they the mother of our kids and they do that work 24/7 and allow us to go and just, you know, do what we do to provide for our home. So shout outs to your wife. I can imagine that's just your number one supporter. Would you say your wife?

[34:29]  Yeah, she's Yeah, for sure. She, you know, it's funny because she she's doing everything I'm doing, but she also gets all the calls from the kids, you know. It's it's funny. I I don't I don't know how she I don't know how she handles it all. Um she's got a really big job and does does an incredible job at it and uh and she's still the one not forgetting about, you know, that they need uh whatever picked up from where

[34:51]  so I had to make sure Steve we take that time to just show a little bit of love because I know the work that she's done, you know, we don't want her to go unnoticed and a lot of times I don't know we can say thank you enough. So um definitely just thank her for allowing you to be in this space, man, because we need leaders like you in this space. Clearly you've done a phenomenal job and look at just in a very short period of time to be quite frank like you spent a lot more in the financial space but just in this space you spent a little bit of time and look at the impacts you've already made what does it look like for the next 10 years especially with support systems like that so um I love it man what can people find more of the organization or just even more of you are you on LinkedIn and what's the website to the organization

[35:28]  yeah we're sunbehavioralhealth.com um I uh yeah I'm on LinkedIn but um I don't know Stephen pay You're right at the beginning. It is Stephen. I I go by Steve, but so Stephen Paige on LinkedIn. I don't know. You do some behavioral health. That'll be enough. Um

[35:45]  and uh yeah, we're uh we're out there. We're we're we're not that big, but we're we're growing and uh hopefully we'll hopefully we'll we'll have

[35:53]  Oh man, you guys are big. What are you talking about, man? I I'll leave you with this uh blind question, man. A blind question that I like to ask every leader at the end of it all. you made a successful transition from banking to behavioral health and built really a growing company. What's that one personal failure or decision you regret and how's it had you shaped as a leader today? Because I think people look at you as a CEO and think a lot of success, but that wasn't always the case. Sorry.

[36:18]  Oh my goodness. No, it's not a straight path. Um, we uh Yeah, I mean I I I was on the brink of, you know, not making it for sure. I what I did uh is I probably um underestimated the cost to open all those hospitals and so I I really got you know behind in terms of my business plan and what I had promised investors and and it almost uh I almost didn't kind of make it to the other side. Um uh it's um be as be as accurate as you can when you're starting up. It's very hard to project that. um do do the best you can at setting expectations. Uh and every you know, everybody's trying to set expectations that they can beat, but maybe maybe double back and and and really try to uh be as conservative as you can be and still raise the money.

[37:13]  Yeah, entrepreneurship is fun, Steve. I I appreciate you taking this time. I love to speak to another entrepreneur. Um there's so many different things we can take away from entrepreneurship, you know, from patience to failure is okay to like there's so many things that we can talk about it. So many people want to do this and I always say it's not for everybody. It is not for the weak. Like you have to be very strong minded um to go and and do these things. As you mentioned, there was times where things weren't going your way and you still had to push forward or you have to pivot and figure out how do I maneuver? How do I overcome these things? So Steve, man, this is not an easy place. You've been successful in it. You're going to continue to be successful in it. I can't wait to have more conversations on what the growth actually looks like, Steve. So, we appreciate it. If you guys are still watching, make sure you guys go ahead and pick up Steve. Make sure you guys check out what the organization is doing. Follow him on LinkedIn. Um, my name is Ephrain. This is Steve. We'll catch you on the next one. Later.

[38:05]  Thank you, Era. Loved it. Take care.