Hospice Leader Beth Ballenger: AI Can't Give Hugs But It Can Save Lives

[0:16]  Welcome back to another episode here on the Heart and Hustle podcast. Our next guest, Beth, says, "We want to treat the end of life with the same scaredness as the day you were born." Beth, we appreciate you coming in here from bedside social worker to your senior VP. Take us through that 20 year journey, I believe it what it was, right? 20 years.

[0:36]  Yeah. You're aging me a little bit.

[0:38]  Oh, snap.

[0:40]  No, I I it truly is a sacred journey here. Um, I started out I'm I'm a social worker by background. I'm a master's level social worker. I have spent most of my career in healthcare and all of it pretty much. I started out in a hospital setting and then I did a small stint in long-term care and then for the majority of my my healthcare career career period has been in hospice and I think it's it's just such a sacred space. Um I feel very blessed to to have landed here. It's definitely a calling.

[1:14]  You mentioned social work. What even got you into that? I mean there has to be a reason someone gets in social work whether it's their own life seeing life

[1:23]  you know I have always wanted to be help people you know you uh want to push people forward to be their best um I also you know my my parents ran uh briefly ran a teen center in our hometown

[1:40]  where I grew up and I thought it was just a really cool place that that people could come to uh to to find commonality and you know people not not that it was all troubled people but I really thought what a cool way to you know to to be able to help people um in community. So I really was kind of focused more on maybe helping teens and um children but then I ended up going in so that's what that's what triggered me to move into social work. Um but then when I got to, you know, through college, I was looking at my options as far as a practicum when I was graduating with my BSW. Uh I had the opportunity to do my practicum at a hospital. And so I was very trepidacious about doing that because I grew up with my brother, my my young younger brother. He's uh what he's 41 years old now, but um when he was three, he had leukemia. And so for from three to six, we you know, he was in and out of hospitals. And really, I I was just I was terrified of of hospitals. And I was terrified of death. So I was curious how I would be I would handle this. I never pictured a hospital setting or medical setting in a positive view point. But then I decided, you know what? I'm going to give it a try. And then I, you know, one of my first uh job duties as a social worker was to screen uh high-risk patients, which meant they were a year or older. Um you know, they could have, you know, disabilities. Um but primarily it was with the geriatric population. And I fell in love with the geriatric population. and I loved um meeting with them and being able to determine help them determine, you know, do I have a safe plan to go home to. Uh so that's really what what got me into this realm to this field to this.

[3:46]  So you had a plan, but God's plan was a little bit different.

[3:49]  Yes, it was a little different. It was very ironic.

[3:52]  And now, you know, kudos to you cuz uh the the hospital still is just terrifies me. I can't stand going to hospital anytime we got to bring the kids there. something about it. I don't know. It's just the energy in that place.

[4:05]  Sterile is what it is. It's very sterile,

[4:08]  you know.

[4:08]  Yeah. It's just a little weird. Um,

[4:11]  but you've been in hospice for some time now. You know, we're not going to age you, but a couple of years, but not say the years, but yeah, about o over maybe about 19 years. Close enough, I would say. Yep.

[4:21]  What's kept you in that field? I mean, when so many people find it so heavy, like I can imagine that it's no easy task.

[4:28]  No. No, it is not an easy task, but I you know, it's definitely a calling because I, you know, I there's there's people in the health care field who can handle the handle the healthcare field and then there's people who can't. Um, and I truly think, you know, just the the way that it healthc care and and hospice particularly is so necessary and needed that, you know, someone has to do it. Um, you know, I'm always telling my my team members, you know, you know, when people say, "I don't know how you do it. You work for hospice. I don't know how you do it." Um, I I said, "That's that's a really special thing because not everybody is able to do that." And so I think being a part of a field where you have the ability to impact a person, an individual and a family and help them in a positive way and help them feel comfortable in an uncomfortable situation. There's there's no better feeling than that. when you you know you you see these people in a crisis you know era of their lives and it's not some you know it can be scary like you said. So being able to be the calm in that storm is is very rewarding for sure.

[5:45]  We started this off talk about um the end of life should be treated with the same scar uh sacredness as birth. What does that look like in practice? you know, just just kind of like we've been saying, it is definitely not a comfortable, you know, it's different when when a baby is born. Everyone's excited. We rush to to go see the baby. We, you know, we celebrate the birthdays. We celebrate, you know, that whole process. And, you know, everyone who has existed has been born. So, we all go through it. And but you know, we're going to eventually end up where we're leaving this world. And so just, you know, we don't want it to be a sad even though it is, it is a sad time. It can be a sad time, but it's also, you know, a a a privilege to be able to walk alongside someone as they leave this world. um instead of coming at it from a a perspective of fear or um you know being uncomfortable uh spiritually, emotionally, physically you know we need to be celebrating the life of that person

[6:59]  who is still here with us no matter in what capacity. But, you know, it is such it is so sacred when we're born and when we die, you know, and and that whole in between, you know, that's that's a whole other story. But but it is just absolutely the most sacred time um in in the lives of of all of us. when you kind of talk about like the end of life for someone, what what's really neat, I would say, is how a lot of these um particular to like what two guys are doing, a lot of organizations like yourself really want to make sure the end of life is your happy times, right? That that you're enjoying. So, I've heard things of helping someone um get to a point where they can shoot bears. I've heard people using VR cuz someone wanted to go skydiving, right? That's just kind of their last wishes. So can you share a story of a powerful last wish or maybe that moment that reminded you like

[7:53]  this is why this work matters.

[7:55]  Yeah definitely I can. So we have had we we try to you know because it is a holistic way that we view all of this uh this point in life we we meet you know there's a lot of meeting with the families and getting to know people and getting to know them you know in a way that's more intimate maybe than than any other relationship. that when you know we want to know their their loves, their dreams, their wishes and you know when we're lucky enough to come across something that's like oh I think we could help you do that. Th those times are are definitely um a privilege to be a part of. So, in one of our locations, we had a younger couple um who the he was on service um the male and you know had younger children and it was just it was heartbreaking for everybody. it, you know, not not every every, you know, the death dying process at any age is difficult, but this was a really particular time where it was very hard on everybody. And they talked about how they would they wanted to go on a date again. They hadn't been able to do that in such a long time. And they had a favorite Italian restaurant. And uh our team got together and thought,

[9:14]  "Say less. You know, we're going to we're going to help you do this." And so everything that was involved, it's not like they could just hop in a car and go. Uh we were lucky enough to be able to get the local uh police department to help do like a um you know to to lead the way and and then follow them. And and then we had our team available and around to help in and out of the car. And you know then later on there was a birthday party for one of the the kids and it was it was just something it was wonderful. It was like this like they wouldn't have been able to do this without the help of hospice and and you know maybe they could have but it was just a time where you know you you hear one thing that one patient wants to do and then people just crowd you they surround you like how can we make this happen we're going to do this we're going to do this you know hot air balloon rides helicopter rides it's just an amazing thing to be able to do for people at the end of life

[10:14]  I smile because uh one of the words you just They say less, right? And you got youth in you cuz not a lot of people will use that. So you said that it's like I don't I'm not aging you. Okay. You got youth in you. All right. Say less. That is so funny. I use that all the time. Um this very unique space and hospice care is people first always, right? Um but it's also a business. How do you kind of balance both?

[10:41]  Yeah, that's that's that's tough. Um you know we we think we know there is a uh there is a need there's always has to be a plan a business plan that we you know we have to reach this size this is you know just like any other business we we strive to be um here at this point in time um and you know we're able to do a lot of what we can do um a lot of the a lot of what we are reimbursed as Medicare um you know federal funds So, we're always able to to do more if we need to with the because I work for a company that is privately owned um and operated. So, they're very very good about allowing us to do what we need to do to care for the patients. and and you know there are times where you have to adjust and things get a little bit out of whack, but it's a firm belief of ours that if we do the right thing by the patient every day in every interaction, everything else will fall in line. And so, you know, we have we have budgets. We, you know, we do all of those same things, but we also, um, you know, we help to figure out, you know, okay, if we need to, um, adjust something, where can we adjust it without sacrificing patient care? And so that, you know, in my experience here at Ascend has been, you know, I've never had to feel like we're doing more, you know, more with less, uh, or we have to stop doing certain things. Um, we're lucky enough to be able to offer, you know, the the, you know, massage therapy, music therapy, our specialty programs that we have for our patients, all that aren't reimbursed by Medicare. You know, it's just an added comfort. So, you know, it is difficult, but we're we're we're we're of the belief that if we do the right thing, the rest will follow and and everyone will be successful and the patients will have an amazing outcome.

[12:42]  Yeah. And it matters, right? like it allows people to, as you mentioned, be happy. Um, be just more in tune with life cuz a lot of times you could just be in a room, you know, that's just kind of how you end your life. But I also listened to a um I was talking to another leader earlier this week and his thoughts were, you know, we put people more there at like a center, right, where more elderly go into after they kind of don't have nowhere to stay. People put them in homes. But he figured we want to make sure we feed them better. So, a more organic food, um, less actually no gluten at all. And then he puts a gym because he's like, they're eating better now. They want to work out. Now, when they're working out and they eat better, they they they feel like, oh my god, like I'm so vibrant. I got energy. I want to go and and now use my voice. And he's seeing these people really kind of

[13:32]  become a little bit different all because doing the right thing. Right. Right.

[13:36]  Things that actually matter. and Beth, even though like you mentioned, we don't get reimbured for that, but it's the right thing and we can see how it kind of prolongs somebody's life than what was kind of expected. So, I I love that. I love about how you guys think we're not just talking about now when someone sits here and kind of drops you off, but hey, you're in our care now. We want to treat you like you're ours, like you're our family, right? That's kind of the mindset that you guys think of. It's like you're one of our family members.

[14:03]  Absolutely. We, you know, we are, we want this to be the most unbburdened experience you've had, you know, in a phase of your life that that can be very burdening. And so it's, you know, we want to be that welcoming. You know, you don't you don't of course you notice us because you've got a lot of care and team members around you, but we want to be as least invasive and make this all about our patient. you know, walk in the door, you know, before you get to the door, you leave your yourself, you know, your problems at at the door and we come in and we are fully present. So there's it it really is if you focus on people, you know, who are the center of everything, you know, we are we are going to be great, you know, we're going to be okay. I ask you when we're in this unique space of change throughout really our our country whether it's u lack of funds but also kind of the birth of technology in a way of AI right uh technology and healthcare could be very very tricky I think that's why healthcare sometimes has taken a backseat when it comes to technology right but they're getting within times something as AI what is what is your take because we know technology can overwhelm but it could definitely also help us be more present in the spaces that we need to, you know, what are your thoughts on that?

[15:28]  Right. You know, I I was a little trepidacious about it at first because, you know, just just not knowing enough about AI and you know, there's all sorts of compliance related um variables around that. And you know, we have a really good compliance team that is working, you know, on those policies and um making sure that the way we use it is safe and, you know, private for everyone and is useful. Uh most definitely what I never want to ever be replaced is that human interaction, that human touch, that human phone call, you know, that presence at the bedside. But there are, you know, in hospice in any other healthcare um realm, there is an administrative burden um when you're dealing with Medicare and you're dealing with um regulations, conditions of participation. So uh there is a lot that happens you know after those bedside visits that needs to be entered into the electronic medical record and it h you know everything that's entered is you know is focused on you know the patient what's going on with the patient is it you know is this patient continuing to show eligibility for the hospice benefit so there's a lot of the unfund stuff that goes on behind the scenes that we sometime that we ask our nurses and our aids and our social workers, chaplain, volunteers to to do. And so just because you you know you've got a document. So um what we what we're trying to do, we haven't implemented any one thing yet, but what's on the horizon for us is a pilot that will allow it's a an AI platform that involves intelligent listening. Um, and so it, you know, it's something that you can take your your phone or your iPad and you put it on, you know, the patient's um, coffee table and, you know, you can start the visit and then speak with the patient, do your questions, do your assessment, uh, and you can also take pictures of medications or um, you know, different things and it will all it will put it into the electronic medical record, whatever uh, we we use um can time but it it will take that and put it in the form of documentation that they would have had to manually type in.

[17:59]  So that in itself is going to save so much time because we don't you know nurses and they've done it for years. It's it's not like this is brand new but they you know you go and you have this wonderful visit with the patient but then afterwards you're like oh my gosh I've got so much documentation to do and so it has got to be done right. So if we can alleviate some of that administrative burden at the bedside for that that nurse that social worker aid all of them um we can you know allow for more time at the bedside. So any way that we can make that administrative burden lesser on the caregiver side it's only going to benefit the patient. So we're really excited to try that and it's we've got also have another our medical director Dr. for Brian Hos who is hands down amazing. He is uh piloting will be piloting a a program called hospice intelligence and it it's not the the intelligent listening piece but it is the compliance piece with Medicare regulations which will also speed things up and allow for more time at the bedside. So, you know, really what we're trying to do is to decrease all all the the unfund but necessary stuff%

[19:16]  and and and allow for a better patient experience. You know, hopefully that that's what they will receive um when we implement all of this.

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[19:46]  I would say Beth, I'm I'm pretty sure you went to school. You went to school to do what it is that you love, not to be writing notes and you know, like no one does that. Okay. No one's going to school cuz I want to be an admin. No, I want to do the fun stuff, the things that make me happy. And it is true. Like when you go to a visit, it could be an amazing visit. It could be a challenging visit. Then you have to do all these notes. It could be overwhelming. The burnout happens. We've seen so many people leave the industry because of things that were happening during the pandemic that, you know, being overwhelmed and feeling like they were working too much. So, I like that you guys are trying to figure out how do we um look at it from the, you know, space of, hey, do what you love. will help you take care of everything else that becomes kind of not fun, right?

[20:30]  Because truly it is not fun. Who who's sitting here getting a job because they want to take notes? I don't know anybody.

[20:36]  Yeah. Yeah. I don't work life balance. You know, you have happy people, you know, we want to be the provider of choice but also the the employer of choice. So,

[20:46]  how can we help you have better life work balance? And it just works out for everybody.

[20:50]  That's so good. um when leading a hospice team is isn't it's not just operations right it's emotional uh leadership how do you approach it

[21:00]  well um you know it it is difficult I feel like you do a lot of because there are certain types of people that are in hospice they're they're more they're more sensitive um you know you're not dealing with robots on a you know in a factory it's not a hospice factory, you're dealing with real people with real emotions and you know it is tough for people. It's just making sure that they feel supported and and you know, we realize and I think myself as a social worker, you know, it has helped me in leadership to understand that everybody's different and everybody's going to be handling things differently, whether it's the, you know, the sad, you know, the the grief of of seeing people, you know, pass away or um just the overall stress of what we do day in and day out. you know, we always want to realize that everyone's different. Everyone needs support. Um, we, you know, we do have certain expectations of our of our team members. Uh, but we most certainly want to support them however we can, whether that be, you know, allowing them to, you know, take some take some time off. What do you need from us? you know, you're at a diff, you know, you know, employee Sarah is in a different spot in her life than employee um Mark. And so, you know, approaching each person from where they're at is definitely, you know, a management style that we've all adapted to because we we want to focus on those people's strengths. And, you know, it's just it's a lot of listening. You know when I was an executive director at a local level I had it was like a stream of people coming out of my office and you know you are seeing different people every day in different points in their lives dealing with different things and it's just that constant you know listening and empowerment and you know that that is a big piece of what we do. We're not just sitting behind a desk typing on the computer. I don't ever remember. I mean, if I had an hour to do that, I was probably lucky. But, you know, you really just have to have the mindset that this is what we're here to do. We're here to support people, and if they're going to do a great job in the field and take excellent care of our patients, then we've got to give them that excellent support um on our end.

[23:24]  Are you still doing hiring and training?

[23:27]  Yes. Do I specifically Well, I help with that. I don't necessarily do the actual training, but um I definitely have a a hand in, you know, helping people choose the type right types of people.

[23:42]  That's great, cuz my next question was when you're hiring these people that are who have to be walking with these families through the end of life care, I can imagine that we have to make sure we got the right people. What What are you looking for in people when you're trying to get them in this space?

[23:57]  Right. So, you know, it's I loved a few years ago, and I'm sure you've heard of it. I we read the book uh The Ideal Team Player.

[24:06]  Yeah.

[24:07]  Um and I think it's by Patrick Lyn Lenty. I don't know how to pronounce his last name, but um you know, the three virtues of, you know, what makes the ideal team player, the three traits to look for. And it's it's genius. It's very simple. And it's genius. You know, it's h they're hungry, they're humble, and they're smart. And so when you look at all those three things, um, you know, hungry being, you know, they're they're highly they're motivated, they're always trying to, you know, look for ways to contribute and, you know, push the group forward as a whole. Um, they're, you know, they're proactive. So, you know, they they've got that spark. And then, you know, we want them to be humble. We want them to be able to, you know, admit mistakes when it happens. Um, put the team before themselves and, you know, be willing to share credit, not always take credit, you know, which then in turn builds trust. So then, you know, they're hungry, humble, then they're smart.

[25:12]  So smart meaning that they are you they have good people skills. They are emotionally intelligent. Um they're able to read situations. They're able to uh communicate effectively. Um and you know, all of which helps to foster that collaboration. So, you know, I'm I'm always talking about, you know, with with my teams, you know, if there's an issue with an employer, they're trying to decide if they would like to hire this employee, but here's what I'm up against. And you know, I'm saying, "Okay, let's go back to what we, you know, we look for in an ideal team player. Are they hungry?" We go through that. Are they are they humble or are they smart? And I'm like, "Okay, so do you feel differently about hiring this person after going through all those things?" And it really does it it helps you to sit back and be like, "Okay, you know, but we have to have the right people to walk alongside people at this point in their journey, end of life journey." And so another I would add a third one your fourth one which is technically number one you know compassionate people

[26:22]  people that have a heart for hospice.

[26:25]  Correct.

[26:25]  You know people who um are are are willing to go that extra mile for the good of the patient and are are um you know just compassionate like you have to have compassion. You don't have any business being in this space if you don't. And people like that work themselves out very quickly, you know.

[26:45]  Yeah. No, for sure. Compassion is definitely everything. And I think another thing that may be a little challenging would be um having those uncomfortable, you know, conversations. Um and I'm pretty sure you guys are leading them from the uncomfortable conversations to what it looks like to actually be comfortable conversations. How do you train that skill?

[27:03]  Yeah, that's tough. You know, it really is. when we were training people to have those conversations. Unfortunately, it really needs to probably start with the, you know, the physician. We're still, we're still working on that as a hospice community and having, you know, them have a back backing us up and being a united front as to what we can do. But, you know, having those conversations always should start out like a conversation. you know h find out where they are at in their understanding of their illness where you know what is your your understanding right now and then you know being willing to you know say okay we're here and you know here's our options they're not they may not be the best options in the world they're not fun and exciting options but this is where we're at and so just getting to that place of you know that's why we ask them you know leave leave your yourself your ego at the door so that you can be there fully present and you know knowing that what you are doing is going to help them understand where they're at in their end of life process um what their options are you know it it is just have you know we teach them to have patience and to really just listen, do a lot of listening um and comforting. Um it's it's not, you know, as easy as one, two, three, step one, two, three. This is how you do it. It is it's a mindset and it's a you know, a presence that that is necessary. And so we do we do a lot of um you know roleplaying at times questions that might be asked so um that we can eventually leave them in a place that is better than where they were at when we first came.

[29:02]  I love that. And and just kind of talking about the space of hospice, right? Every one of us will face the end of life either that's going to be personally or with someone we love. What do we need to do better? We need to do better about talking about it. You know, having the conversation with your your grandparents, your parents, you know, what are what do you want? What does this look like for you? Because as a as a community or as a world, you know, humanity, we we don't do a good job talking about it. So, I think, you know, just being willing to have that conversation and, you know, with your loved ones, like what is what does that look like for you? you know, if you get to a point in your life where you know, you are unable to to do X, Y, and Z and live equality, you know, um have qual quantity over quality, you know, what do you want? What what what is your consideration? You know, what do you consider quality of life? So, just being willing to talk about those things with those around you and that mean a lot to you. Um and be willing to let it happen in stages. you know, you're not going to get an answer right away, but just just being open to the conversation about how it it is, you know, it is an important thing. It's going to it's something death is something we all are going to encounter and um we've got to normalize it a little bit.

[30:27]  And and what do you when we think about just the space of hospice um and talk about healthcare leaders, what do you want those healthcare leaders outside of hospice to really understand about this work that you guys are doing? you know, I I I think I I I would want them to know that it is truly sacred work that we're doing. Um, and you know, we we want we don't want to be the people that you call in and no one else wants to have a conversation about it, but you leave it to us. We will be happy to have that conversation for you, you know, with you alongside you, but be willing to be a united front in what is the best thing for the what is best for the patient. um in their specific point in time and where they're at in their journey. Um and you know

[31:16]  to it's just so important that we look at this as you know it's a grand finale for people and we've got to be able to normalize it and be comfortable having the conversations and really make it the beautiful thing that it can be. Um just like we do when when we celebrate a birth.

[31:38]  Yeah. I love the word you use grand finale like just make someone feel very special.

[31:43]  Yes. This is

[31:45]  definitely.

[31:45]  So I I could see the word you use make a difference right as well.

[31:50]  Um and I love that.

[31:52]  What is your vision when we think about uh the future of hospice care in America? I some would say that we're probably not doing the best job, but I can imagine that there's a vision that you have that you're trying to kind of play out with in your organization. What does that look like?

[32:07]  You know, it's it's hugely un underutilized. Um I I think we need to do a better job of educating physicians. you know, physicians, you it feels silly saying that, but you know, they they go to school and they're learning to um heal people and and and when you get to that point where you can't necessarily heal anyone, you know, it's kind of, you know, there's kind, compassionate, wonderful physicians out there, but but they kind of want to pass it off to somebody else. So, like I I really truly hope that we have a a day where, you know, hospice is not a scary topic and that physicians are willing to call us in and and alongside us have a conversation um with patients on, you know, here's where we're at. You know, being honest. Um I think that we need to be able to be providing a little bit more at the bedside. You know, I feel lucky in a sense that we're able to do that, but I I definitely feel like, you know, we have so much opportunity to bring that type of peace uh to the end of life, you know, discussion and process. And I I really just hope, you know, I hope that we don't do too much with AI. You know, I know there's a lot of ways it can be helpful, but you know, it can never replace that human interaction when it comes to to hospice and end of life. So, I I truly hope that we we do more things, you know, the government um you know makes reimbursement to where hospices can do that, they can do more um for our patients and ensure that they have you know, everything that they need at end of life. And uh I I really hope that um we we just keep that focus on um excellence in care, you know, excellence in end of life care for everyone that we encounter.

[34:06]  I love this. I love this conversation and it is a conversation that people don't have often. Um I was fortunate, it was very scary, but my mom um maybe like last year says, "I need to have all my kids. We're going to have a bingo night." Uh, but I really have some things to share with you guys. And of course, you automatically go, what the hell is she going to tell us? Right.

[34:25]  Wait, what? And um, she said, "No, I just, you know, I just wanted to share some things." And when we get there, she's talking about, "Hey, you know, I'm okay. Everything's good, but I started to write my will and I started to do this and, you know, my plan if this was to happen and who's going to, you know, have to roll out the plan. The plan's already there.

[34:43]  I already created my plan. Mhm.

[34:45]  I just need this person to roll out this plan, this person, and you're already in the room like kind of scary. But then you also probably see the other side of it when no one did have that conversation and what does it look like for the family after the fact.

[34:56]  Oh yeah.

[34:57]  You know, um it becomes becomes a lot for those families and and you see families break up and the fighting and all these different things. So yeah, it is a conversation we should have so that the families are at peace as well and they're not at each other's throat when that time happens, right? The grand finale, it's supposed to be an exciting time, right? Um so I love that word of grand finale. That is that was really good. So as we start to wrap things up, where can people find more about you the leader? Um is that a LinkedIn or and also just the organization in itself? Are you guys on social media? What's the website?

[35:26]  Yes. So uh ascendalth you can find us on uh LinkedIn and at ascend you know ascendhealth.com or ascendhospice.com and then u I am personally Beth Ballinger. I am on LinkedIn as well. So, anyone can reach out to me if they've got any questions or want to share resources. I always love that.

[35:46]  I love it. So, are you ready for this blind question?

[35:49]  Yeah, let's do it.

[35:50]  I think this would be good. This one's, you know, curated just for you here. So, if your patients could leave you with a last wish, what do you think would um what do you think they would ask you to carry forward? If they could leave me a last wish that they could carry forward that I could carry forward, I would say that would be just to carry that compassion through every interaction that you have. Treat every interaction as though you know this is a last interaction. um and treat it with kindness and uh clarity and um just compassion. That's the word that comes to mind. Share that compassion. Continue it on. Pay it forward, you know, in all interactions.

[36:41]  Can I ask you one more last question?

[36:43]  Of course.

[36:44]  You got a sign that said, "Time makes you bolder." What does that mean to you?

[36:49]  Time makes you bolder. You know, I feel like it is just it's, you know, we go through so many phases of our life where, you know, you're younger and things seem so much bigger of a deal than they really are. Um, you know, being nervous or being um afraid to be to take that next step or to take that risk. And you know I have found that you know really truly like getting older help you know it you know time makes you bolder. So I think it's just an it's a reminder to um not be afraid to do things that maybe seem you know have seemed crazy to you to do in your younger life and and just be who you are. Be confident. Be you know compassionate. just be you um unapologetically and authentically.

[37:46]  I love it. Good, good, good, good, good. No, that that's the answer I wanted. No, for sure. As I get older, I'm 35 years old now and I look back at, you know, when I was 20 and I thought I was bold and I thought I was confident and I thought all these different things. In reality,

[38:02]  was I even, as you mentioned, my true self? And I think I've fell in line with what it looks like even from a leader perspective. I think as leaders um there's there was a picture that was painted to us of what a leader looks like and how they should act and all these different things

[38:16]  but I can imagine Beth that just having this conversation I can tell you're you know some of the words you use you're just you and I and I love it I love you for it because you're not you're coding

[38:27]  yes and not you know when I I there's sometimes that I help leaders show up online and they like how do you how do you think like should I wear this or should I do this and I'm like how do you want to show Yeah.

[38:38]  Like don't show up as anybody that you're not. If someone sees you in person and they see you on a camera, is it the same person?

[38:45]  Because that's authentic. That's real. And I can imagine, Beth, if I met you in person, the whole vibe that we have here today probably actually enhanced a little bit because now we're in person and that energy is going to be even more contagious. But no, I definitely appreciate your your your time today. You have a blind question of your own. Do you want to ask your blind question?

[39:01]  Well, oh goodness, this is I feel like it's kind of a hard one. Um, it's kind of a deep one coming from a social work.

[39:07]  I love the deep ones.

[39:09]  All right. So, you know, and you you kind of mentioned it earlier. Uh, in a world that is divided on so many things on so many levels.

[39:18]  Yeah.

[39:18]  What are some commonalities we can focus on as leaders that transcend our differences and connects us all for the greater good of humanity and our world?

[39:30]  Oh, yeah. You are deep. You went deep with that book. too much time for that one.

[39:35]  No, that's a really good question, Beth. And and really do just appreciate thinking deep into the question, but also just thank you for giving us your time today. You could be doing anything else, but you're here on the hard and hustle just sharing your heart and hustle right in this space that you've kind of um

[39:53]  it happened to you. You know, you weren't looking for it. It just happened to you and and you you loved it and there's the passion, there's the purpose, right?

[39:59]  That uh it's not about the paycheck. It's just about how you leave people um as they're at the end of life. So, thank you. Kudos to everything that you continue to do. We appreciate your time here. Guys, if you guys still watching, make sure you guys do like, share, and subscribe. Check out Beth as well on LinkedIn. Check out their website and some of the amazing things they're doing. Um this is a a conversation that we don't have often, but as she mentioned, we have to start to normalize these conversations because we're all going to see this point of our lives. And we better to be prepared than unprepared, right? It's just why would we want to be unprepared for something like this when we know it's going to happen?

[40:32]  So guys, continue to like, share, and subscribe. My name is E Frain. This is Beth. And we'll see you on the next one.