How John Sneath Built a $30M Home Care Company by Leading with Love

[0:00]  When you're in that in that moment with the caregiver who's walked into a you know she's a stranger walked into that place and you see that it's all really about relationship and love and coming to terms with life and how we want somebody to leave this world. I mean it's what it's what uh what gets me to say to caregivers when I orient them every week. It's like this is a gift. This is like a gift you're giving to people that you can't put any kind of value on. It's a it's what could be more more meaningful. You're honoring somebody's humanity, giving them love, and when they leave this world, perhaps they are are reminded and leaving the world thinking this world

[0:48]  was about love. At the end of the day, that's what it was about. Welcome back. Here we have John. And John, I got to ask you, building that $30 million business in healthcare is obviously no small thing to do, but doing it with love as a foundation, that's totally different. What's the one thing people truly misunderstand the most about home care and the way you run Tribute?

[1:27]  That um that at the end of the day uh it's about the caregiver. These are sort of such obvious things to say, but it's about the caregiver. It's about the person we're sending into the home. And we we a company that does what we do needs to focus more on on that part of what we do more than anything else. Who are we finding to do this work? And then how do we support them? That's if you can't do that and focus on that, well, you really shouldn't be providing the service. And and that's not only a good thing to do, but it's what people who need care want. They want somebody to walk through the door that they can have a relationship with. So that's that's what we focused on relentlessly since we

[2:14]  started. I love it. And John, before we get into the big lessons, I want to rewind a bit. You've got 30 plus years of experience as an entrepreneur in healthcare. What was the first thing that kind of really pulled you into this industry? I worked in a nursing home as a teenager uh quite by accident um for two summers outside of Philadelphia and back in the 70s. And I was so affected by what I saw. Now I was just uh doing maintenance stuff and uh but boy way back then certainly more than there is today but but it still happens. But way back when people would be put in nursing homes that didn't need to be there and people who were perfectly sound mind maybe they had had

[3:01]  a stroke and I can remember this lady and she partly paralyzed and she's in a room with four other people and nobody's visiting her and she's losing her mind like why am I here and um I was illquipped to provide comfort to people. I I don't think I mean they would reach out to me as I would be in their rooms and stuff. It was just deeply affecting and I don't know why that happened and I I don't want to make a big deal out of it but that experience stayed with me and when I had a brief stint on Wall Street after college and then as a consultant after business school briefly that like I got to do something in this space there's a lot to do there's a huge opportunity to do it right I mean try to do it right you can never do it entirely right it's humans helping other humans but it's to try to do it right and I

[3:51]  sort of knew that um people if I wanted to build something people would be attracted to a mission that was about doing the right thing for people who need care and also the people that provide it. So and how does faith because we had a really good conversation when it came to faith when it came to just God and it was really good but how does faith really play a role in how you lead and build relationships in this business?

[4:15]  Yeah, I I I have to this is a hard one for me and I have to be careful how I because I don't I I try it's like you can't I don't know if you can force humility. I think you can cultivate it. I try to bring humility to this because I am a latecomer and by no means do I have a um I guess what I have my faith is a knowing that and a certainty that the most important thing in life is love and that love is something that was created.

[4:47]  There is a creator behind love. Um, the most incredible experiences I've had in my life have been about loving relationships with others and also about the forgiveness that I think is part of life. Uh, when I screwed up, when I've done bad things that there's been a chance to turn my life around and and I, you know, I call that God, but I don't know if my God is your God. And I I I guess I would say what what really got me on a a journey just you know a spiritual path was uh reading the sermon on the mount and particularly the ba the biatitudes probably 20 years ago and so I take the gospel very seriously. I wouldn't necessar you know

[5:37]  my Christian friends I don't know that I'm I'm not a professed Christian. I don't I'm not a um I haven't been baptized, but I'm in a Bible study group, which has been very helpful to me, and I'm the I'm I guess the skeptic in the group, but I'm deeply moved by the teachings of Jesus and by the gospels. And that's so John, what a conversation. I know we tapped into last time. It is a very tricky thing because you you you know it's like there's this uh a mold of what a Christian should look like or a mold of what this person should look like. And I'm kind of with you. You know, I may not go to church. I may um I may not actually may not even be deep in the Bible, but it doesn't mean that we can't have our own relationships with God and how we see things. And I completely agree. We're so

[6:25]  I I hear you. We're we're we're uh reading uh Genesis and I I would advise people to if you're you know the very first book in the Bible you know in the beginning God created I mean if you're going to read that boy you got to be you got to be strong because it's it's a very challenging God that's introduced there but what the thing that is definitely introduced is a a god who is for whatever reason can't help but love now that's imper Perfect. Because we know there's a lot of suffering and all of that and so they're all the but that can't help but love and be close and be part of the human experience and that is very moving and comforting for me and that's what I choose to kind of hang my hat on and and

[7:13]  so that love you got I got this question right here for John and this just kind of came up to mind and then we could just transition. Yeah. But you remember moments that God showed up in your life? You remember that? I know there's always Yes, but I but I'm really hesitant. Like in in in Genesis, God speaks to Abraham. I mean, I really I Okay. God has never spoken to me. Have I felt um forgiveness, deep forgiveness, and I've really I've messed up in many ways in my life. And have I felt an overflowing love like I felt when my mother died and I was with her for 6 months as she was dying. A love that there was no boundary. It felt like a love that could just flow forever that I

[8:02]  couldn't contain. And that felt like this incredible opportunity that was not about, you know, preserving our existence, right? It's not about wasn't about uh Darwin. It was about something more than than just this material existence. So I always say life is greater than us, man. Life is greater than us. And as you get a little older and you become a parent and you become an adult, you start to realize, yeah, it's none of the materialistic things.

[8:30]  And it and life is so much more than us. And I love what you're saying, man. it cuz you're really dead on and so many people just feel because you don't have this relationship like every other Christian where maybe you're going to church every Sunday, maybe, you know, you're living your life a little bit differently. But I I still believe that God doesn't judge us because John, as you mentioned, there was a time, you know, in a place where maybe you weren't the best version of John. Oh my gosh.

[8:54]  Most of my But you changed, right? No. And I think what's the sweet thing about it, John, and you saying this is that at any moment we can just make those changes. Is it easy? Totally. Not at all. That's a great There is, you know, there's a a Quaker song that has a phrase in it like, you know, it's about turn, turn, turn. And when we, you know, keep turning until we finally find that place that's right with God or whatever you want to call God, that's right with God.

[9:25]  And I think I believe we have that opportunity at every juncture. And um and I'm just so uh I I will say blessed that I can have that I'm part of this company now where this idea of how we treat each other is central. We're not by no means are we perfect and of course what does it mean to love when you have to decide on pay increases. I you know I mean but well but if you have it there if love is there it's very helpful because it puts downward pressure on what do I need and what do others need not that you know not that I'm not taking you know I this has been a a good venture but it does it raises the question and and it kind of forces

[10:12]  you to think kind of in the direction of what's because we take care of people all the time that tribute coming to the end of their lives and they're wrestling with these fundamental things and the material stuff it's not not on the table. You know, John, we we talked about last time and you said you lead with love, right? You talk about leading with love. That's what you do with your company. That's just your culture. Yeah.

[10:36]  Um what does it actually look like on a day-to-day in homeare? Yeah. Uh well, one thing is it's it's embedded in our mission. It's in our mission statement and it's in our core values and you know mission statements can be paragraphs and committee put together and ours is very brief. It's you know bring love visit after visit to people who need care and the remarkable people who provide it. So it's about how we support each other in furtherance of helping people who need care. And then in our core values it's uh bringing love is one of the core values. And so it just it's an orientation when we're interacting with each other. So we try to be I try really hard and I'm imperfect at this to be intentional when I go into a meeting.

[11:23]  And most of my work life is meetings. I go into that meeting with an intention about how I want to be in that meeting and with an anticipation of what's likely to come up and how am I going to react to that. I have a big history, a long history of of being pretty reactive and and volatile. Uh, and in the last, I don't know, 5 to 10 years, I've become much more intentional. I see certainly the pain that that causes, but more intentional about how that how I want to be and and we talk about that in the company and um and we hire people that share that vision and are attracted to it. So, shows up in a lot of other different ways, but but um having clarity of purpose with that word in it is is critical.

[12:11]  John, I already knew this is going to be a good conversation. We're only minutes in and I'm already having a blast just because these these these are conversations, John, that I people are feeling and don't talk about it, you know, and it is it's one of those things like you said, you know, what I was and what I've you know, how I've changed and it's that better late than never. At least you You know what I mean? You could have been the same person your whole life and and and probably live a different life, but because you've made the changes, you were aware of it, however that may have come about. Um, a lot of times people don't even get that chance because they just live in it and that's just who they are and they, you know, they make excuses for it and they they don't um see within themselves. And I think I mentioned to you, you know, the last conversation that I was very similar, very young where I didn't even know I had these deep rooted issues that would

[12:58]  allow me to, you know, I would like to say go to zero from 100. I didn't know the inbetweens, you know, and it was really a lot of my upbringing. It was a, you know, a lot of the trauma that I was experiencing. I didn't even know that. I actually I'll give you another example. Sometimes you go through things, John, and you're still going through things.

[13:14]  Don't even know you're going through it, right? Um I was speaking to someone else in the in the in the healthcare space and she um been clean now for 14 years. She's a mom, you know, that's one of her her motivations and my mom as well kind of being in the space of um you know, drugs and add addictions. Um I didn't know that I still had some emotion, you know, towards her. So the other day we were talking and I just started almost kind of to tear up and I'm like, man, I didn't even know there was emotion. But because something triggered that conversation and to think that way, I automatically I'm like, man, I maybe I need to look at that, you know, a little bit more. And at least we have those conversations with people to just have, you know, a little more insight on what is it that's causing me to do this. So, I can imagine you talked about the um the Bible study. Those guys are so helpful because they're probably saying

[14:03]  things that you never thought to even mention. you know, you were feeling it, you were thinking it, but to hear from somebody else, it just changes kind of the narrative of who we are as individuals. And as you mentioned, none of us are perfect. We've all done our own, you know, dirt, but we're not living that today. That's who we were in the past. That's that's that first book that we wrote. It ain't the second book, you know what I mean?

[14:27]  Um the well just back to what you were saying about uh the drug addiction and your I guess childhood experience or early experience and you know in in the thing that is uh very interesting to me is the ro is the sort of interplay of suffering and love and how suffering seems to be so important to the manifestation of deep love and understanding what love is. And but you know we we wouldn't want to justify others suffering uh because that helps us feel love or manifest love. But it's, you know, you if you're paying attention,

[15:15]  uh, if you're paying attention and you feel like you have there's a there's, you know, Jesus, you know, says, "What are the two greatest commandments?" is asked what are the, you know, love the Lord God with all your heart and soul and love your neighbor as yourself. boy, if we can keep that front and center and again, if it's not God, what's what's something else that will pitch you out of yourself and your focus on your own material well-being? If though if that's the focus when I suffer, I can put that in a perspective um uh which which is, you know, what what can I gain from this? What can I learn from this? And it and it and I and I can feel it softening my heart so that in my interactions with people I'm more

[16:06]  humble or I'm more open to the fact that they've screwed up in life or they've had a difficult background or they and uh so suffering is actually really important but I I haven't quite worked it all the way through but it's it's it boy I you know okay okay I go there with you. I I do think I I do think that suffering ideally is important. I say when people ask me, "How did I feel about my life today? I'm 35 years old.

[16:36]  How do you feel about life today? Everything you've experienced, all the things you've had to encounter, I say grateful." Yeah. And I say that, John, because without it, I'm not who I am today. Without all those mistakes, John, without you uh, you know, not being at maybe some of those spaces that you didn't want to be in, you're not who you are today. those were experiences you were learning. A and I even even kind of give it a little more. My wife always says, "You should you you should be preaching." And I said, "But I am."

[17:07]  Every time I share somebody my testimony on how I overcame and now John I would tell someone how John overcame you know how how my my mom overcame you know and I'll have these conversations and in reality those experiences that we live whether it's our experiences or with someone else it truly just helps us become a better version of ourselves.

[17:28]  Now, not everybody sees it that way and not everybody may have that opportunity, but that's how at least how I seen it is that I'm grateful because without that, I don't know that I'm having this conversation with you, John. I don't know if I can relate in a sense. You know what I mean? So, that's just how I look at it, man. So, everything that you're saying, I'm dead on with you, man. Cuz I get it. You know, it goes back to none of us are perfect. We're all just dealing with something internally. Some of us don't know how to I This is This is me being very transparent with you, right? My mom was very angry when she grew up is growing up as an adult now having two kids. I'm like, "Oh, I get it." My mom had seven kids. She had to go work two jobs. She had to come home. You know, she was a single mom. Had to come home, had to clean. You were acting up. Now she's mad. Probably work was upset. And she

[18:15]  just got really angry. As an adult was I'm not saying that it was some of the things were right. But I can understand now because I'm a parent. And the other day when I my daughter was just she's four years old and she's just telling me no I'm not going to do this or you you know how kids are they just want to test your patience. I felt the anger in me but at that moment at least I was alert of it. Some people right just automatically again go zero to 100. So it showed me John that I was working on me all these years before I became a father and I was going through struggles with my wife and and you know at work and just going off on people. I did not understand one that I had anger issues, but when I did, it helped me because now I'm a father and I'm aware of these things before it could get to a different place. And it sounds like

[19:02]  you've um to the extent you were angry at your mother for that, sounds like you've forgiven her. And um and that forgiveness and I had to forgive my father a bunch of years ago like really actively forgive him. But that that too softens your heart and and helps to end the cycle because I have anger issues. Of course I've got anger in me. That's how I grew up. It's in my genes.

[19:33]  It's um but forgiveness not living with the hatred for others the anger towards others that is such an important part of the journey too. Um so anyway hey real quick if you enjoying the podcast we first want to say thank you and we also just want to give you a little insight of what we're up to at Francis. Some they'll even realize that we're working with organizations to help them use AI to create that real human communication experiences where that's actually supporting your your families, those patients or the entire community.

[20:09]  We're actually creating tech that connects. Check it out. Francis.ai. I love it. Let's talk let's let's talk about back to the home care because we can go on this conversation. I don't even know if we're going on this this down this this path, but let's go back to the home care. Home care is something that's deeply personal to you.

[20:26]  Have you had that moment with a client or family that really just reaffirmed, reassured that this is why I do this work? Oh my gosh. Oh, I mean, I'll think I'll tell you one recently. And we attribute everybody who works in an office role is uh required. We don't use the word required so much attribute, but in this case it is. It's required because it's so critical. It's so mission central or mission critical. Everybody has to go out and visit clients and caregivers on a regular basis, some more than others. I go out and every two to three weeks and I was out recently and we went to visit a guy who has an oil heating business. Uh he's in his 70s. Um he still drives a truck. His son is in the business. His wife's at the front

[21:14]  desk. uh and his wife is probably several months away from dying from um frontal lobe dementia. And we care for her and for him, not really caring for him, but we're there as a support for him. And he is commitment is to keep her at home until she dies. Now, if if we're sending in caregivers who are indifferent or who are just there to carry out tasks but don't love her and love him uh and again not

[22:03]  perfectly then we can't then he can't do what he wants to do. He can't surround his wife with love before she dies. And he's deeply committed to her. And frankly, I think atoning for something in the way he acts and talks. I I think maybe he wasn't quite what he should have been in their marriage perhaps or something. But he he takes care of her at night. We would normally be doing roundthe-clock care. He takes care of her at night and does personal care for her.

[22:35]  And when you when you're in that in that moment with the caregiver who's walked into a you know she's a stranger walked into that place and you see that it's all really about relationship and love and coming to terms with life and how we want somebody to leave this world. I mean it's what it's what uh what gets me to say to caregivers when I orient them every week. It's like this is a gift. This is like a gift you're giving to people that you can't put any kind of value on. It's a it's what could be more more meaningful. You're honoring somebody's humanity, giving them love, and when they leave this world, perhaps they are are reminded and

[23:24]  leaving the world thinking this world was about love. At the end of the day, that's what it was about. That's very powerful. And I see that over and over again. So, that's just one recent example, but I I I um I could just see the the love and the care that you have for yourself, first of all, but your your clients, your staff as well, making sure that they understand and have that same kind of mindset as you. How do you continue to train and really inspire caregivers to go beyond just a job and truly care for their clients? Because as I speak to other leaders in the same space, one of the biggest things they say is that the reason that we uh um care caregivers just don't get paid enough, which is why they don't give their love or or give that time. And you hear that time and time again. But

[24:11]  you're in a different space. You really do pour into not just your your your clients as well, but even though caregivers, how do you continue to do that? Um well for one um if if you lay out at the very beginning uh a a clear motivating mission for people that that is clearly a a differentiator and you start attracting people to that and they start working and doing good work. It just it it you you just are you recommmit and recommmit and recommmit and and if it's a mission like I think ours is, it attracts great people to that. They want So caregivers in our industry are typically part of a

[25:00]  roster. They're working by themselves. They don't feel surrounded by a team. They call the office and they don't hear back for three days. And maybe it's their paycheck's wrong and they need, you know, or the care plan hasn't been updated or the the client is so challenging to them that they don't know how they're going to do another visit and they're out there alone and they're making, you know, not great wages.

[25:27]  That's bad. That's bad. and and and from a purely business standpoint, if you want people to show up and and bring this love, you they have to feel they the agency they work for can't be a burden. It's got to be a support. Um I forget what the question was that you asked me, but but oh, how do I keep keep it going? Part of it is we're out seeing what's going on all the time.

[25:53]  See, I I show up with one of our care managers because I just don't want to just walk in and and it's I'm there not with a clipboard to check on things. I'm there to thank and reconnect. Love it. That's so important. It it just it's so important and it just remotivates me. So, John, listen, it goes back to good leadership, man. I don't care what you say in the beginning of these conversations on who we used to be. is who you are today and the leader and caring for people and showing up and making them feel like they matter and that their work doesn't go unrecognized. That's it. That truly changes the game. And a lot of people always, you know, think about why do I have people that call out or people that don't want to show up? Well, it's it's because they're not doing enough of what you're talking about. Just showing up and saying thank you. I because without

[26:42]  them, the job is not getting done to be quite frank, you know. So I love that you kind of stay in that space of always just that love continue to show love to them, you know, so that they probably in your life you think about what do I want my life to be and where do I find meaning and when I get to my last days on this earth, what do I want to reflect on?

[27:09]  What do I want? And you know, I I think we maybe don't ask that question enough. And I don't think we necessarily I mean, I've been very fortunate because I have a wife that has been totally supportive of my entrepreneurial ventures and my failures and helped me get through them. And that's really really critical to and to have a a partner in this who loves you and and and supports you. That's super critical. I don't know how that I I could have done it alone, but it keeps us sane at times, right? Oh my gosh.

[27:43]  Yeah. As it drives them insane, it makes No, I love it, man. Kudos to all the wives out there, all the ladies that just truly um you know, support us, man. Even through our our tough times. I mean, I put her through some tough stuff. I mean like you know my very first business which really should have we should have just declared bankruptcy but we were finally able to sell bits and pieces of it you know outside my office we had down we had like three people left in the office and and we needed to we were in the adult daycare business. We needed to sell a center and and and we needed to sell it and get that cash in order to pay payroll and didn't happen. the the the buyer said, "No, we're not doing it." I went outside and I sat on the

[28:31]  steps crying my eyes out and calling my wife and I mean because really it felt like the end of the world like I don't know what we're going to do about money and I don't know what of course you know it was an overreaction but still but then but putting your spouse through that yeah but you know what that was still the caring in you right that oh my god I there's people that still need to eat you know like forget about my money I just want to make sure that I can take care of the people that did the work for me Right. It goes back to you always had this caring in your heart, you know what I mean? So, I love it. But you talked about almost filing bankruptcy, but then in your other business, Tribute, you talked about $30 million in revenue.

[29:10]  That doesn't happen by accident. No. What was some of those biggest challenges to even get there while keeping the heart of the company still intact? Well, I made a lot of mistakes along the way. And I I do think one good thing I did was I paid attention to those mistakes and I really tried to learn from them. And that all had to do with clarity of mission, finding the right people to al to align with. So we needed investors to get started and picking those carefully and thinking about those thinking about who the first few people were that were going to join me in this and being and and remembering the partnerships that I had that didn't work out and why they didn't.

[29:47]  Um and and then just being super true to this mission that we've set that our difference and I if I had to give anybody one bit of advice who's starting a business uh speaking of not thinking carefully enough about def determining the difference that you bring to the marketplace is so important. I mean I remember in business school you know sustainable competitive advantage like oh that makes sense. You come into a crowded space like home care and you have not clearly defined how you're going to be different from home instead and visiting angels and comfort keepers and then the mom and pop down the street and all that. If you haven't thought that through very carefully, you're probably not going to do very well. You need to stand out in the marketplace and

[30:34]  solve a painoint better, not perfectly, but better than everybody else. And it could be a small pain point, but that's what gets you going. But just being another home care agency, first of all, it's not interesting or exciting. And secondly, we wouldn't have gotten to where we are today if we hadn't clearly define this difference about caregivers, which is seems like, wow, that's a difference. Isn't everybody trying to hire good people and well, it's just hard to carry out and hard to have the you have to have all infrastructure and focus to make that happen. Anyway, I'm talking too much. No, John, this is this is for you. Okay, continue to talk.

[31:10]  However, listen, I'll give you another one. I give you another one. Okay. So many CEOs make mistakes. I'll tell you what, there's no perfect CEO. You could look at the the Jeff Bezos. You could look at the Bill Gates. They've all made some some probably horrible decisions in their lives, but they're successful today. And I believe that it comes with just the lessons that we've encountered through our journeys. What has been the hardest lesson you've actually um had to learn as a CEO?

[31:37]  Um patience. I'm an impatient person. That is true. That is true. Patience. And that impatience drove some impulsive decision making. It drove eruptions at people. Um it it drove poor decision-m. We do this thing at tribute now where at the end of every quarter we have um two weeks of uh it's not pausing. We came up with a better word because pausing sort of meant like don't do any work. But we minimize meetings and everybody, I don't care what position they're in, has time to reflect and think about how to do things better.

[32:18]  Pausing. I wish somebody had talked to me about pausing, taking a deep breath, counting to 10. Um, you always make better decisions after reflection. and nothing I mean obviously if it's a crisis that might you know that that speeds up the time frame but you know when you want to move the company in a certain direction or you want to correct something that isn't working you you got to take time you got to move it forward people want momentum and action and so on but you've got to do it you got to get data you got to have others involved in the problem that's another thing I just I was never good about bringing people I had to solve everything you know that's pretty common in uh developing leadership ability, but um patience I would say is probably the

[33:06]  biggest thing I've had to learn. So I love it. So and you just talked about wanting to do everything. So do you say at a time in your life you went from micromanaging to delegating? Yes, I um in at tribute uh I have um I've gotten much better at that. And I think if you were to talk to the my executive team, they would uh say that they have a great deal of autonomy. And that is so important. So important. I want autonomy. I think most people want they want to know what they have to do or supposed to do. They want to be given the tools to do it. And they basically as they learn they want you to back away and they want to have the freedom to make some mistakes to make some decisions independently within a framework. Um uh so I I think that's that

[33:57]  autonomy and that needs means you have to have clarity of purpose and that's where you go back to the mission statement. If the mission is clear so much falls into place. my job as if I'm the controller of the company. Oh, bringing love to people and the people who well what does that mean for my job and and it it does mean something for my job like really great clear numbers that's an act of love I can do others can do their job better um so uh yeah I I I now I again I lost John you're doing so well you're so blah blah how's your organization currently thinking about like AI as a tool to help support clients and your team actually do more with less. I mean, everyone's

[34:44]  kind of in this space and yeah, I'm pretty sure it's also affecting or not I wouldn't say affecting but maybe it's already in this space of it is but I think like a lot of places it's more about right now kind of being more leveraging oh that word so overused in business isn't it but helping people do their jobs more effectively is where it is right now. There's not like an AI solution that's going to care for people. I mean, you know, the Japanese have evidently made great strides in building robots that can help people get out of the tub or and and maybe some of that's going to happen and might happen in facilities like independent living or assisted living facilities where we provide uh care to people, supplemental care to people may happen there, but right now it's it's um I need to I have

[35:34]  a problem. Mhm. Go to AI, get an answer, a talk to it like it's an intern, get an answer, and then work from that because it is going to give you something intelligent. And that's fine because now I can focus even more on the things that I think I'm really good at. Um, and it's like having a really strong assistant.

[35:54]  And but we're, you know, we're looking at it to help us see if we can't get through applications for, you know, caregiver applications more effectively. Uh to see if we can't schedule, uh, you know, when somebody calls out for a visit, not so easy to always find a replacement. So, looking at behavioral data and and uh uh you know, uh data about who's accepted uh you know, visits in the past and availability, you know, can we be more efficient there and have that be a less painful process? So, I mean, we're definitely using it, but and it's getting better and better, for sure. Oh, totally. And um so, yeah, I think I think it's transformative. Uh but you have to be purposeful in a business to adopt it and get people to, you know, use it. Yeah. And I'm happy

[36:42]  that you you are willing um to even think about you know technologies such as AI and and hope that team members won't you know kind of resist it because I think we're in a space where it is as you mentioned we're just at the beginning stages of what AI could potentially do for a lot of organizations totally is it going to take away that uh persontoperson interaction 100% not I think we never get away from that but as you mentioned it makes life a little easier the way you know something that would have taken put together or or think of it's taking a seconds now by just truly having a conversation at times like I use chat to Pet all the time and I'm just talking into it like this in the mic like hey I have this idea I'm you know and and the things that it comes up with you're like wow and to me I think I even get better now because it tells me things that I didn't even think to put it together like that you know I'm like oh wow I don't think it is a cost reduction tool

[37:31]  I think it is about more carrying out your mission or strategy more effectively it's about making you a more effect more effective at what you do it might you know as a company grows it might mean we're hiring fewer people could be that's you know that's a source of worry but I also think AI is going to enable so much more entrepreneurship and that will create jobs some of which would have been created before AI perhaps so I I you know we're a a business uh a a like an entrepreneurship culture in America. We have a lot of startup businesses and we don't ever want to lose that and I think this is a tool to

[38:18]  to give people even more ability to do that. 100% agree. What's what's the next big goal for Tribute Health um home care? You have any plans you're working on? Yes. Um we have financial plans, but that's that's sort of boring. Uh but we we realized I went back and looked at my business plan from 12 years ago, 13 years now. And um there were so there was a vision for what we wanted to what we wanted the caregiver experience to be that we haven't entirely carried out.

[38:48]  Some of which we couldn't afford when we started. Now we can afford it. uh some of which is just really hard to carry out uh because it you know it it it's uh so for example I want to offer somebody who comes to tribute a really rich pretty intensive on a caregiver I'm talking about onboarding not just a really good dayong orientation and some shadow visits but like a more prolonged uh not boot camp that's too intense a more prolonged intensive training where they're interacting a lot with our great caregivers and they're giving them pointers and they're learning how to when you do that of course you got to take people are less available to provide care and we're always straining

[39:36]  to find enough caregivers. But we've we're we're recommitting right now. We have a group recommitting to our vision, an audacious vision for caregivers that's going to involve that pay career pathways, more predictable pay increases in more enriched paid time off benefit, you know, that sort of stuff. But we're recommitting there and I'm very excited about that more than I'm excited as well. Continue to grow 30 years and you're still, you know, looking on ways to to to grow, you know, and I think that's amazing. Um 30 years some people say stagnant at times, but you're 30 years and still going, right?

[40:10]  30 years plus at this point. Yeah, I'm I'm actually more energized right now than I have been in a long time. And uh you know, I have a lot of friends that are starting to think about retirement. They're well, you're going to retire. It's not I don't think so. They may have to have to throw me out, but hey, I'm I'm excited about it. Right. That's how committed you are to what you do.

[40:29]  something that started as a young boy, you know, and here you are, you know, an adult and still carrying this mission 30 plus years and probably even more because I think you you you kind of went into the um entrepreneurial ride uh route as a coach, I think that you mentioned a little earlier. Um if someone's listening and they really want to make an impact in elderly care, where would they actually start? Where do they start? I it goes back to I think a little bit of what I was saying earlier.

[40:56]  You have to find a a a a pain point in the marketplace, something that's not being addressed well. And and of of course you want you hope that the solving of that dovetales with what your interest or your passion is in life, but even not even if it isn't, you can develop a passion if you're solving a problem really well uh in the marketplace. But I think you you got to start there. It's um I think a lot of people start businesses and they just haven't been disciplined about what that is. um what and you have to be willing to get out there and talk to a lot of people to test your idea and some are going to say no no it's not a painoint or no it's a bad idea or no I would you know so it's but but that's the advice I would give if you're going

[41:48]  to you want to start a business that's what you got to do good advice good advice and and we're actually wrapping up here and I know we can go more but we've already spent 40 minutes giving giving out some good gems, having good conversations, and hope that people um definitely take away some good stuff out of this. But I'm going to hit you with a curveball. This is the blind question time. Uh oh. If I gave you a billboard in the middle of Time Square and you could put any message on it, something that you believe the world actually needs to hear today. Yeah. What does it actually say?

[42:17]  Yeah. Well, I think I it's pretty predictable. Um I think it would either be um uh love your neighbor as yourself, bring love, be something with love in it. Um and uh you know something about being relentless in pursuit of loving. You know, there's a great one other thing I've kind of learned uh and I'll I'll be quick.

[42:47]  Um there's I may have mentioned this to you when we were had our first conversation. There's something in the Bible that is about um love casts out all fear, but also love has a way of organizing everything in in this it's like taking chaos and turning it into order. And if you do nothing else every day in in business Mhm. but focus on how I'm going to interact with you and and h what how this meeting is going to go and and how do I care for you in this meeting and stay you know what so much falls into place.

[43:27]  It just falls into place. We as human beings make things so difficult because we're looking ahead and we're focused on my needs. Boy, if you just can do that, you you you start to build a habit like that and it and it really it solves so many problems. Okay, you're too petty. John, this has been truly incredible. Such a phenomenal time as I knew I would. Before we started, I told you I said, "I'm so excited. I'm looking forward to the conversation." I knew it was going to be You're very good at this. You ask good questions and you make it very conversational. So, really appreciate that. Yeah, absolutely. Where can people find out more about Tribute Homeare and really support your mission?

[44:08]  Yeah, just tributehomeare.com and um and you know I I my email is uh I think it's on there or not, but it's easy to find and uh somebody could call the office and always happy to talk to people particularly people who want to start businesses or um and and they don't they won't get lectures. They'll just they might just hear about things to try to avoid because I've made all the mistakes you can make. So, uh, that's it. That's how to live. See, that's why we go through those things to teach others.

[44:36]  John, I always look at it. I always believe that. That's why we go through things to teach others. Yeah. Well, John, this has been a pleasure. For you guys are still watching. Thank you guys so much. Make sure that you guys do subscribe, like, share with a friend. We're We have so many leaders, whether they're in the nonprofit healthcare spaces that are really making an impact, love what they do, making a difference every single day of their lives. And you can see that John 30 plus years has really been committed to just changing the lives of elder care with Tribute Home Care. Guys, my name's E Frain. We got John Heart and Hustle Podcast. We'll catch you guys on the next episode.

[45:08]  Thank you.