How Keralee Clay Uses AI to Serve Rural Communities No One Talks About

[0:00]  There is nothing more important than face-toface communication and relationships. You cannot learn people from behind a screen. You've got to have that face tof face relationship because again that's what breaks down who voted for who, what church you go to, what color your skin is. You have to get to know people as humans. And that's something that rural communities do in a way that urban communities do not because they still go to the diner and have coffee in the mornings, you know.

[0:42]  Welcome back to another episode of the Heart and Hustle podcast. Listen, this always exciting times. And today, this is someone who dreamed of Broadway, kicks around a soccer ball, and now leads a movement transforming rural Texas with AI. You already know this ain't your typical nonprofit story. Caroli Clay is in the building. Welcome to the Hard House of Podcast. How you doing today? I'm doing great. Thank you so much for having me. Listen, before we get into the bold moves that you're making now, take us back. What What was that single moment when you realized this is bigger than me? this is actually a purpose.

[1:18]  You know, I was uh working the job before I had this and I realized how much I loved it was the people that I was working with that were so important to me and the people we were serving and I was working uh at a more of an entertainment facility and I I said to myself, I feel like I need to be in the nonprofit space really just I I I've always wanted to serve and and um I've always been called to be a leader from the time I was in grade school. It seems like ended up always trying to lead the bus a little bit. And I feel like I kind of put that out there and literally a couple weeks later my the CEO, our previous CEO here called me, did not know him at all and asked to speak to me and ended up getting hired a couple weeks later. So, I feel like I I don't

[2:05]  know, I put something out there and it came back to me. Wow. So, you had no idea about this organization. I really didn't. And I think that's one of the things we're really trying to change is to quit being the uh the best kept secret in in Texas or in this in the country even. So, um but I' I've been very fortunate to be here for over eight years now. Look at that. Yeah, that is definitely purpose. That is that is just you put it out there into the universe, you pray for it, whatever those may be believing and it will definitely come to you. I love that. Uh, and you have, what's cool is that you have this blend of creativity and strategy because you go from Broadway dreams to um, a nonprofit CEO. What parts of the past do you still carry into your leadership today? You know, it's very interesting having I I got a my degree was in vocal

[2:53]  performance focused on opera with some Broadway and ended up doing film and and such as well. But it's again about that connection, right? those connecting your connection to people and and how you build those relationships and um I think that's the part I carry forth with me. Not to mention it's helpful when you're in difficult situations or conversations sometime to have those acting skills, right? Yeah. You can always put that character on if you need to. But I think that understanding what it means to connect to an audience is very similar to understanding what it means to connect to a donor or to a partner organization. just understanding the power of human to human connection and keeping things human first. You know, you kind of go back to that act thing.

[3:38]  There's so much you really gain there, you know, from improvising what like I think all leaders should have this skill of improvising, especially in the nonprofit world because it happens very often. Um, you know, those those acting skills work really well when you're in rooms that you don't want to be in, but we got to turn it on. We talked about it a little earlier, right? Um, so I love that those those acting days. I can only imagine. I myself used to be into theater. Um the last play that I did, I actually don't really do plays, but um someone asked me if I would be part of the casting call. It's just one of this, you know, those individuals. I'm like, "Yeah, that's cool." That was my first time doing that. And then she says, "Hey, we need someone to play a teacher.

[4:17]  Would you be willing to play the teacher?" And I'm like, "Sure." So, here I am in a big theater in Orlando for the first time. Like, I haven't even gone there to watch a show. It's the Dr. Phillips Theater here. and I'm playing a part, you know, I'm I'm already in my what was it? Maybe I want to say 30 years old at this time. Never thought I'd be doing plays, but all those things are skills that we use out in the world.

[4:40]  You know, you think about it like, man, we still carry them every day. I was I was setting up for this moment, and I could only imagine you still feel like you're setting up for that moment. And and what's really even more cool about you is that you feel that there's spaces in Houston that don't get the love that um or sorry in Texas like Austin and Houston. There's there's the panhandle, right? You're about fighting for the panhandle. You want that that passion as well. What what makes you so passionate about that fight for the panhandle? Oh, our people here are amazing. And um you know it's by the Emerald Area Foundation is a community foundation that serves the upper 26 counties. So it is that square at the top of Texas and it's the size of West Virginia. It has 400,000

[5:30]  residents. We have counties here who literally have more cows than humans in them. Um but we are the pioneers and that pioneer spirit is still here. So wanting to be innovative and but also coming together in ways that I don't think is possible in a larger community. We know each other. Um we have to trust each other. We have a little bit of saying the cavalry is not coming. Uh Austin's not going to save us.

[5:57]  Washington DC is not going to save us. When we have a disaster here, we don't have enough people to actually qualify for FEMA. Wow. So, when we had our fires here last year, some of you may have heard about them, burned about 1.5 million acres of wildland and uh ranches and and farming and it didn't qualify as a FEMA because there wasn't enough human damage. So, it's just it's an interesting place to live where we really have to rely on each other in a way that is uh beautiful and devastating sometimes at the same time.

[6:30]  So it makes this even more of of an interesting story because you're fighting for a space that sometimes be is even overlooked in your own state, you know, and then then you get lost into this the nation, right? So you really got to fight hard. Um, and you said you talk about being a pioneer. Was this always within this organization or is this something that you brought about eight years ago? That pioneer spirit. I think the pioneer spirit is just anyone who's lived here and grown up here. Um, my grandparents literally came in a covered wagon from Oklahoma into the Texas panhandle and settled in and my family's been farming here ever since down south in in what's called Palmer County. So, literal pioneer spirit. Yeah. Is what's here.

[7:18]  So, um, this gets deeper. What? Like this this is now when you hear that story, I see why you're fighting, right? This is generations generations and we are are we feed a good portion of the country here. I mean we have some of the largest uh beef production in the country and oil production and fiber production. So um I don't think people realize how much they rely on us to get them their food and their fiber and their fuel.

[7:47]  I want to talk about some nonprofits. I still feel like nonprofits are playing it safe when it comes to like fundraising or even marketing. What's what's holding them back? What do you think is holding them back? I mean, you look I can only imagine you've seen other leaders in the space and you probably sometimes think to yourself like if you only do what what's holding these people back? Well, I think first I want to say I'm not an expert and this is something I'm learning as a relatively new leader of this organization as a CEO. Um, I came up through the operating ranks, so fundraising and such was not part of my my jam until recently. So, I've been thinking about it a lot and it really makes me also think back to my performing days, right? When I lived in New York City and was performing, I never had any doubts in my talent. But what I had a really hard time doing was

[8:36]  telling people about my talent and telling them and feeling like I'm I'm telling them too much. And I think that's something that nonprofits maybe deal with. For instance, it's Black Friday. I don't think Walmart ever said, "I don't know if we should send one more email or one more text about it being Black Friday because it may be too much. We may have given them, you know, what's the what's the threshold?" And nonprofits don't have that. I think we have that mentality of we don't want to bother our donors too much. Y and I think sometimes it's even more about I tell my kids this all the time. You are the star in only your movie. Nobody else. You're not the star in anyone else's movie. You're a bit player at at most. And so we have sometimes it's just reminding people about the good work you do and not assuming that because they

[9:24]  haven't reached out they don't want to hear from you anymore. We're all busy. So you have to you have to do things seven times, seven different ways for them to hear your message. But also the nonprofits, they're out there doing the good work, right? They're out there doing the hard good work and we should be really championing that. And I think as a as a community foundation, part of our work is champing our nonprofit leaders. I like what you say there because I was just having this conversation with um a leader in the nonprofit space and I was telling her how when it comes to donors, out of sight, out of mind, right? You just mentioned it. They got their own lives. They got kids. They got jobs. They probably got other organizations that they care for. Maybe

[10:11]  they're volunteering on another organization. They still love your organization, but out of sight, out of mind. If they don't know that you need something, how do they give? You know, so I love that what you're tapping into. It's just, yeah, continue to tell that story cuz you know what? Every day is a probably a different story. Maybe that story that you sent last time didn't resonate with them, but now this next story, they have somebody in their family that is going through that exact thing right now. And how do I become that difference? So yes, and Walmart doesn't care, by the way. They didn't care. I think the other thing is this myth of donor fatigue. Uhhuh. I don't I think it's a myth and also I will say there's we have data that proves that we're one of the most generous communities in the nation. So we do have an advantage of just having tremendous donors here. But I'll give an example of 2024 we had those massive wildfires. We

[11:00]  do a a disaster relief fund here. So we kind of become the hub for the Texas panhandle of of gathering and and distributing disaster relief funds. So in that time we had about $6.6 $6 million come to us for disaster relief. Well, in February or in November, we have our biggest giving day. We call it the panhandle gives and we really thought this is going to be the year we don't make it make, you know, make more than we did last year because people have given. They've given to disaster relief. So, we just kind of were like, we'll just see this will be the year we don't bust we've we've busted our goal every year for the last seven years. We raised 11.8 million for the community.

[11:42]  Wow. after raising that. So, it comes back to you've got to tell them what you need. You and this don't just quit thinking they don't want to give anymore or they're not going to give anymore. Um, again, I I don't believe in donor fatigue. I think it's just about messaging and messaging it the right way and having something they really can hold on to and believe in. Okay. Okay.

[12:02]  So, we're telling people some good stuff here, right? We're telling people they can keep asking. Um, how do they I would say how do they keep this relationship going? Because this is all about relationship building as well, right? So, what are some of the things? So, this is I'm going to tell you some examples that I'm experiencing taking over a nonprofit. It's always when you take over an organization, two things can happen. It was ran really well and you're in a good space or it was not ran really well and it's like you're starting from nothing. And I'm in that starting from nothing phase. Um, but there there was a database that didn't really exist. We found a database, but I now I'm saying, "Hey, not only do we have to reach out to these people, let's those that are high donors, let's get them on the phone. talk to them because it means much more now. Right now you have, hey, you know, thank you so much for the $500 that you donated last year.

[12:46]  I was thinking like for me, we're in the um we're doing scholarships for the schools. Hey, I see that you did a $500 donation last year. That was a really good, you know, for for a scholarship. Did you want to create a legacy scholarship and maybe do a $1,000 that we can do annually now? You're setting this person up annually and because you called them like now they're like, "Oh, they really care." Right? You have to play into that. So, what are some of the things that your organization is doing to just keep that relationship going even when you're not maybe asking for donations? Well, I will tell you I'm very fortunate to have a team of people who are professionals in this work and I know a lot of people don't have that.

[13:20]  Um, but I have a development department that is just they're top-notch. They're professionals. Uh, big shout out to my friend Melanie, our VP, who's been doing this for over 20 years. So, I'm learning from them about relationship building and things like sending donors birthday cards, right? It's not about asking for money. It's about thanking them. Um, sending they they do Thanksgiving uh cards and just those little touch points, but you're right, there is nothing that can take the place of picking up the phone and say, "Hey, I was just we have this opportunity come up and I know this is something you're passionate about. You know, we have this opportunity in education and I know that's something you really have cared about." Yeah. and we'd like to see if there's a way you'd like to partner with us on on this opportunity. And I think that's the beautiful part is it's not about just talking to them, but you've

[14:07]  got to listen to them. That's what I'm learning from this team that they're amazing at. Just sit there and let the donor tell you what makes them excited and what they're passionate about and then finding ways that you can partner with them in that in that passion. And then when you do call back and you you know, you're talking about your your CRM, right? That database of being able to look back at past notes and saying, "Oh, that's right. they really care about animal welfare. So, I don't want to go into them talking about, you know, child could, you know, access to child care because that's not something that really pulls at them. So, getting to know your donors and then building that relationship. And again, I'm just fortunate to have a team that's awesome at that. Hey, real quick, have you enjoying the podcast? We first want to say thank you. And we also just want to give you a little insight of what we're up to at Francis. Some don't even realize that we're working with

[14:54]  organizations to help them use AI to create that real human communication experiences where that's actually supporting your your families, those patients or the entire community. We're actually creating tech that connects. Check it out. Francis.ai. You mentioned something that nonprofits don't have a CRM. Yeah. Right. Like there's so many points that we can talk about on how some of nonprofits are really struggling and not seeing the bigger picture and innovating and it just looks like from a leader perspective you're really you're ahead of the curve. You're innovative. Um what does AI play a part in all this? Is that something that you guys are thinking about already working with? Um let's talk to that because so many people are in that space of kind of fear with AI but I was talking to another leader

[15:41]  yesterday which was so excited. She's like no I love it. At first, I was scared cuz I felt I was cheating or I was lying. But I'm realizing no, it's actually very helpful for me. I mean, even for me, I feel like it makes me more creative, more smart, right? Some of the things I never thought of is coming out of Chad GPT and I'm like, that's great. Let's do it, you know? So, what is your thoughts on it? I love it.

[16:03]  I'm kind of a dork about it actually and it was a pretty early adapter, but um I think to your point about cheating, I think that's a really interesting thing, right? how people and and I think where we went wrong was calling it artificial intelligence. It's really augmented intelligence because it's all human stuff that's going in there. Yeah. And it's just forming it for you and put in a large language model and spitting it back out. Y So I find it just being efficient. Now I I will, you know, you got to watch for the hallucinations. You got to make sure it sounds like you. But if I can put together an email in a quicker fashion, but that allows me to make those five phone calls, those real personal touches that AI can't do for me. Yeah. Of course, the other joke I I love is I I need AI that does my laundry and my dishes so that I can do the writing and the and the painting I love

[16:51]  to do, right? So, I think could have been done a little differently. I'm down for that. I am down. I can't stand doing some dishes at night. Mike, I just Where's that button? Um here in in Amarillo it's we're in an interesting space because we have some leaders here who are just innovative but they were they were in the private sector for a long time.

[17:15]  They came back to their home to their home to try to be innovative here. And so we have in Amarillo the first digital human in the world. Her name is Emma. And um if you go to amarillo.gov You can play with you can ask Emma all kinds of questions. But how this really came about and thinking about using AI for our community is that we have the largest refugee population per capita in the state of Texas and one of the largest in the country. So we have a middle school that has over 60 languages and dialects in it. And so it really made us think as a community, how many people are we completely not being able to serve just out of language barriers?

[17:59]  And AI is brilliant at this and getting better all the time. So um that has led us to think about ways that we can help um people register their kids for school, which is all online, but done all in English or maybe Spanish if you're lucky. But it's not done in Guatemalan. It's not done in Farsy. it's not done uh for our shamali communities that are here. So um leaning into that but also the thing that is beautiful about AI that I think could be really important in the nonprofit space is AI is becoming more conversational.

[18:34]  So instead of just like for instance for a survey there's tools out there where you can do a survey where you can have this chatbot so to speak or we it's just Emma here have a conversation and then there's backend ability to take that anecdotal information and turn it from qual to quan y data. So getting like this robust data, but then also being able to engage in conversations and maybe some spaces that are under reppresented. So I think of, you know, we we have our city council meetings here. It's a lot of the same people that come to all the meetings. And so does that mean our leaders are only hearing from a handful of people? What if we had we used AI to have conversations with more people and

[19:22]  that informed our leaders in a way that was broader and gave them a lot more in-depth information but made it accessible to people to meet them where they are in the language where they're at. So that's kind of where we're looking at how we can um really lean into AI to uh better inform. But behind that, you got to have your privacy in place. You got to have your data collection in place. you got to make sure you're treating people with dignity when it comes to their data. So, there's a lot of I would tell people to do your groundwork first if you're going to start really employing AI to be um conversational and make sure you have policies in place for your staff using it as well. So, there's there's guard rails that need to happen. Make sure you have an AI policy in place before you're you unleash chat GPT on your staff or they're using it on their own. Um, you

[20:12]  know, just make sure you're protecting your donor's data, your your proprietary data. I make my staff uh they have to have a work account. So, I don't want the that's account. It's owned by the by the foundation. It's only our information. It puts guard rails in. So, little things like that to be safe because let's that's really good.

[20:31]  There's it's not a it is a bit of the wild wild west right now. Yeah. And for those that are listening, like getting their own personal email may cost you a little bit more, but long term saves you a lot more money on the long term, right? Because if something happens now, you're talking about, you know, hundreds of thousands, millions of dollars possibly, um, depending on your database. And another thing that you just mentioned and people don't realize is the data. You need data. An organization needs data. And if you're not building that data, I'll tell you what, I don't know if this what was happening on the nonpr the nonprofit that I just took over. I don't know what they were doing at this time of year, but I got like hundreds of numbers, uh, sorry, hundreds of names, but only home address. There's no emails, there's no phone numbers. I'm

[21:19]  thinking like, I mean, I guess I can utilize them, right? But data, it goes back to data. Some people would say no to that. And I said, okay, how do I get creative? And my space of creativity for that is instead of sending a postcard because that's so just common is how about we send them not just a card but if I can make we have a logo for the for um our organization we can put it into a nice little gold pin that we then stick inside the postcard so they have to look at the postcard to get this pin but I'm going to package it up a nice little black envelope because if you give them a postcard they toss it. If they have to open it what's in it? Oh that's a nice pen. Oh what is this about? Now you get them, you have to think outside the box.

[21:58]  So all data is good, but now we have to think creatively. How do we utilize this data? And I think that's where people go wrong in nonprofits is they're not using the data they actually have from past events and things like that, right? Um, and I would actually even ask you, challenge you on this one. I'm pretty sure you're working with other leaders.

[22:13]  Let's say in the AI space, um, do have you seen any of those aha moments with other nonprofit leaders when you finally get them to use AI or think AI? Oh, yes. We had a um we're fortunate here to have a nonprofit service center. So we do a lot of trainings for our local nonprofits here in the space. And we did a training on AI. Brought in two of my friends. One of them who is uh developing Emma and another one from our uh school district, our our education uh district that does 61 schools here in the Texas panhandle and had them talk AI. And I just watching this 75 groups of nonprofit leaders going But when they could see what would happen, so I'll use the example of a lot of these smaller nonprofits do not have

[23:01]  the capacity or ability to write a strong grant. It doesn't mean they don't have a great program. It doesn't mean they don't have they don't deserve the funding, but unfortunately, we're still working in a in a world where bad writing can lead to not getting a grant. I mean, let's just be realistic. I'm I'm we're we're working on that ourselves of breaking down that that idea of uh that grammar is what leads to a good organization. But that's something where AI can really, you know, level the playing field for places who just don't have either um the first you lang English not being their first language or the grant writing understanding the technical writing of writing a grant.

[23:44]  So, we we wrote I was partnering with with these other organizations, the government, school districts, and another nonprofit to write an NTA grant, which we tried to do in four days, and I don't recommend it. Don't recommend it. Four days, four days to write a federal grant um with my three ADHD guy friends. Um but we they helped us create a a bot, an an AI bot that was, you know, we put all the parameters on it. We fed all of our white papers and information into it and then could just ask it what are you know and that allowed us to be able to do that. I think I told you this before we named it Hugh Y the Hugh Grant bot.

[24:26]  Sorry if there's any fringe infringement on copyrights there but um it's it that's the kind of thing and again when you said you feel like you're cheating. No, you're using a tool. Yep. So, when you take out a a a nail and you don't use your hand, but you use a hammer, you're not cheating. Yep. You're using a tool. That's exactly what I told that leader. I'm like, it's just another tool to your toolkit. That's really what it is. It's it's a it's a resource that makes life a little easier for you, saves you a little bit of time. And I'm I'm very surprised that nonprofits are hesitant on it because they need it so much more. Like, you know, these small organizations, you talking about grant writing. When I told her that, she's like, "Oh my god, I didn't think about it." But, you know, I thought the same way. I just took over this a year ago and someone says, "Hey, use it for grant

[25:13]  writing." And I'm like, "Man, I use Chad DPT for everything." I never thought for grant writing, right? We're not cheating. We're making it a little easier for us because we can't we don't maybe we don't have the money to go get a grant writer. So, do we sit here and do nothing? No. We're going to go to the tools. We're going to come up with something and maybe we get a, you know, bombass grant writer down the line. So I do feel like these organizations and I'm happy that you're in the space of teaching organizations how good AI can really be helpful for them. You know you're one of those early adopters.

[25:44]  There's the marketing capabilities in it right using Canva and um I've been using one called Gamma lately to build out presentations because I do a lot of you know talking to organizations and presentations and how much time do you spend trying to get your slide deck just right? I can't stand it. Oh yeah it's the worst. literally throw stuff into Gamma and Gamma spits out what you want and you play with it. It's there's just ways we can make our lives a little easier. I'm writing that one down. Yep.

[26:10]  G MMA. It's a good one because I also could do my own workshops, you know, like work life balance or as you mentioned AI or anything like that. And um Chad DBT will give you the slides like what they, you know, should say and all these different things and it looks good. But when it comes to actually creating the PowerPoint, I'm like, "Oh my god, this is the part I hate about it. in there. Yeah, I love to facilitate but I creating it but once you create it once that's the beautiful part. So if you got me on that uh you know that's that's good. Listen, we're just giving gems if people that are not watching this like what they definitely should be sharing.

[26:45]  Um you talked about facing that that million acres of wildfire a little earlier, but what I heard was resilience. What did that moment reveal to you about the heartbeat of the Texas panhandle? I know we were talking a little earlier, but I really want to dig a little deeper into that moment. Yeah, it was um a year ago right now actually we were we were dealing with it and um it was, you know, a first devastating. We're watching people lose their ranch land that has been in their family for generations. Um and knowing that there's just there's not going to be enough money to fill that gap. Frankly, even the 6.6 six we brought in is just a drop in the bucket of what is needed. But when we would go up there and talk to

[27:32]  those community leaders, I just it was just heartbreaking. Yet all of a sudden I had hope and humanity I hadn't had in a while because they had, you know, people coming in from all over the country with hay. They would load up their pickups with hay and bring it in so that these these the cattle could still be fed now that the grass land was burnt. Um, and then advocating for each other, helping them clear their burnt house, helping them, you know, get their get their kids in a safe place where they felt like they were comfortable and they could come come to our house. It was just a a moment of community that was beautiful.

[28:13]  And I think it's sad that sometimes it takes devastation to do that to for you to really see how much how valuable your community is. Um, but there is a resilience in a rural community. I'm not saying I'm not saying there wasn't resilience in Houston when the hurricanes hit and that sort of thing, but they did have FEMA help. Federal help came in and and helped. We had some state help, but um that they they want to stay. This is their family land. They want to continue to do it and they just will keep going and they'll they'll rebuild and and keep that family that land and their family and help each other out. There's it's just a beautiful thing. But I think what's even uh interesting about living in a place like this is that taking for

[29:02]  granted that when you're in a larger community, you have things like 911, right? Or a firefighting force that is I mean they're all volunteer firefighters and they didn't have they were going in without equipment. They didn't have equipment that they I mean it was a miraculous thing to see. Mhm. But there's a lack of resources that makes you have to come together and be more resilient because again the cavalry is not coming.

[29:29]  And I would just kind of add on to that. There's also this myth about that rural companies need less, but you've said the cost of doing good in these areas is actually higher. If you can kind of just kind of break that down for us that are are listening or watching this. Right. Well, I'll use um broadband as an example. So, we're that's one of the initiatives we're working on is trying to make sure our rural communities have access to high-speed reliable broadband, which of course the gold standard is fiber. But what it when you have a farm that is 200 feet or 200 yards off the main line, the main road where they might pull the fiber, who's going to pay for that? And uh so it takes a lot more investment to get that fiber up here,

[30:18]  which means we kind of get discounted because it's cheaper to do it in those high density populations and hit more people. Yeah. Because I think they have there's this sense of outputs being confused with outcomes. M and when your output is how many houses did we serve, but your outcome could be how many unserved houses did we really hit?

[30:44]  And I think a thing that's interesting for us up here too is when we're talking about the broadband space, I think a lot of people are like, "Oh, those farmers need to watch Netflix." No, those farmers need to have connectivity to be able to have monitors on their water spets so that we know when we're overwatering or underwatering. We need to be able to know when a fire is coming or happening faster. We need to be able to RFI our cattle so that we can keep track of them. I mean, there's connected farming that would be revolutionary to many of our a industry partners here, but you can't have connected farming if you don't have connectivity. And you can't do that with Skylink. You know, Skylink has a tremendous place in a lot of our in our rural communities and has helped them out a lot, but you it's not for businesses, it's for homes. So they deserve their farmers deserve the same

[31:32]  investment as the bank on Main Street deserves as well to be able to run their industries effectively. I mean I love it. I think um what you mentioned is is people really got to start seeing um internet as stop seeing internet as a luxury and really start seeing it as a lifeline. Right. Absolutely. and and it is good that you kind of touched this topic and this is one of those topics that you really wanted to talk about and as we're kind of talking to it and you're bringing it into that perspective things I didn't even know right and and this is what we do think this is why as nonprofits we bring things to um conversation that no one talks about and I think that's a sweet spot about it it's a little harder because when no people are going to look and probably hear this like what is she talking about but these are things that are really happening in people's communities so I I appreciate you you

[32:20]  know kind of talking to that. I think as um Americans, we could be very sometimes uh what's the word? Um what was I thinking? We we just take things for granted like you know what I mean? I I've been able to travel to South Africa and I remember one time thinking like man we've we Americans don't even know how good we got it. Yes. But then there's Americans within America that don't have it as good as most of it. And that's what you're mentioning right here, right? is that we we have to stop thinking sometimes so selfishly, you know, we have to start thinking about those community members. And I do love one thing about America, which is the craziest thing to me. We're very divided when it comes to elections. Super divided. But you talk about community.

[33:04]  When something happens, a tragedy happens. I don't care what the skin color is, what the party is, everyone comes together to be to help out, you know, to make an impact. And we got to continue doing that even for this small scale of saying, "Hey, we need to stop thinking a broadband is just that luxury. It's truly a lifeline. This is where we get a lot of our resources from." So, I love that you're you're tapping into this a little bit more. Is there anything else that you feel that people should know in this space? Well, I think um in our communities like for for broadband, it's also about health up here. So we have some of the highest maternal death rates in the like it's like third world country in places because we don't have OBS in all of our communities. So beyond the broadband dropping data centers where they they

[33:54]  could do remote ultrasounds for moms. They could do remote uh uh all kinds of of health needs that we don't have that are health deserts. So it's way beyond. I mean, there's just so much that that inequities that people don't think about. Being able to go to the doctor or having a or um having uh internet at home so your kids could actually learn to do online college, not an option for many of our communities. They cannot do online school. So, um, so to your point, yeah, it's a it's something that's really taken for granted by a lot of people and it's not even the cost issue is one thing for sure, but when you don't even have the option, I think it's um it's something we have to we have to address because everybody has that right, like you said, I I believe having

[34:42]  broadband is becoming a a right, not a luxury, in our communities. Appreciate you sharing that. I want to navigate a little bit as well about the way that uh you know you've been running things and I know that you've seen so many different myths out there. Why do people still act like nonprofits should have make money? I'm pretty sure you hear this from time to time from just people that don't know about the space. But if you can kind of give that that answer to those that may not know. I had a good friend of mine say to me just the other day that we should quit calling them nonprofits and start calling them social impact organizations.

[35:17]  because I think there's even language is important, right? That's that's an IRS designation. It's not what you do. So, we're we're naming organizations by an IRS designation, which is crazy. Um, I think it's important for people to really step back and think about the people behind the nonprofit work. I know there's always the talk about what is their overhead, what is their overhead. Well, overhead is humans and humans is what it takes to do the work. So, we're asking people to to contribute their lives to trying to solve some of the hardest problems that government and business can't solve, like hunger, cancer research, um really important things, but we want them to not have resources in which to do that. So there's I think that's the

[36:07]  myth is that we need really quality expert people who can have a living wage and support a family and want to do this work. Um it can't just be all heart. It's we need people with expertise that feel they have backing and um so I think that's my my biggest thing is understanding that nonprofit is just it's it shouldn't be called that we're doing social good and that deserves investment and um that requires people. So the west the best way that I actually heard this and I I share it all the time now is that nonprofits are extension of the work that the government can't do or is not doing enough of. Right. So when we think about the organizations like yourself like

[36:55]  you're an extension of what the government can't do or is not doing at that level right especially in counties that you're in. So why wouldn't we you know money is what makes us survive. Money is what makes the impact happen. you know, as you mentioned, and then we still have to take care of those that are actually doing the work because not everyone's going to be a volunteer. And as you mentioned, there's skills that people don't have. Um, professional development, like, you know, make feel like people, it's okay to to pursue professional development. Marketing costs money. That's not all inind. So, just things that are needed to to make things because there's sometimes that we need things. And guess what? They're asking, these companies are asking for money. They're not just saying, "Oh, you're a nonprofit. Oh, of course you can do that. you a discount, but they don't give it to you for free usually.

[37:41]  Right. Exactly. And they probably already jacked up the price knowing you're a nonprofit, so the discount is like, really? Is it a discount? So, I love I actually had that issue we were having with a CPA where um they charge us almost $8,000. Originally, they were supposed to charge us 5,000 to get our 501c3 back. We had lost it as soon as I jump on to that board. So, that's the first thing I had to work on. And he he mentioned 5,000. I'm like, "Okay, cool."

[38:05]  I mean, still thought it was a lot of money. But then they said 8,000 and that was that was just a the discount. I'm like that's a discount? I spoke to another CPA. He's like, man, you're being super overcharged even at the $5,000 level. And that's another sad thing is that people think they take advantage of nonprofits. Yeah. You know, I see that happening as well. And if, as you mentioned, if you don't have that expertise or that good leader or the people that really just kind of um understand what is right and what is wrong.

[38:37]  Yeah, the business acumen that a lot of nonprofit leaders go into it because they want to do that. They want to help that community that they're in, but there's business acumen that has to happen around that, too. So, again, that professional development piece learning, you know, as a as a a fairly new CEO, um interim CEO, I'll put that in there for right now. Um that it's about people, culture, and numbers, right? And I think sometimes we forget the numbers Yeah.

[39:09]  part as as nonprofit. So I I since we're talking about like top talent, we're talking about um you know, it's just having some good people on the board or on the team. If if we want to attract top talent to the nonprofit world, what actually needs to change about how we talk about nonprofit careers? And and I think that that's an important point because I I do believe people think that certain people go into nonprofit. I don't know if they think you have to have a certain degree or something, but I have a degree in opera, so trust me, anyone can build a nonprofit. Um, but I think there's also that misnomer that nonprofit means you're always going to not have an income. And I think that really is is hurting the sector. But, um, I think it's also important for

[39:58]  nonprofits to be also looking at the HR trends, right? You've got to understand human resources as well. Understanding the difference between hiring a millennial and hiring this new coming this upcoming generation and maintaining your boomers at the same time. Um it's just basic nuts and bolts human resources which is my my professional background is more in human resources that um you can't just rely on your mission to be the reason they're going to stay. that may get them there, but you've got to give them better reason to stay. And that's going to be about your culture, how you're treating them, um whether you're maintaining your values. I think that all nonprofits have their values that they put out there, but are they internal as well? Do you treat your people with the same kind of

[40:45]  compassion that you treat your constituents? And of course, um being in our world, we have to be flexible, particularly with our younger organizations or our younger professionals. I will say when I first came to the organization eight years ago, our previous CEO was a lawyer by trade. So, it was all very buttoned up and uh everyone was wearing a suit because we were the foundation. We're not just a nonprofit. We're the foundation. And um I had a constituent, a nonprofit organization member say, "I'm sorry I was late for the meeting.

[41:19]  and I had to run home and change clothes because they part of their work is in an urban farm and they felt like they weren't dressed appropriately to come to a meeting at the foundation. And that's when we really had that moment of that's a culture thing that is um going to keep young people from joining the foundation if they feel like they have to buy a whole new whole new wardrobe to work here. But that also that mentality of um as a funer breaking that down of like we're a funder but we're a partner. Yep.

[41:53]  And I want my grants officers to feel like they are trusted and can come to work in a comfortable pair of shoes because they have a long day or they have site visits. So our dress code went from suits and jackets to dress appropriately for your day. That's it. That's how I get it. Treat them like adults. They're professionals. They're professional adults and they're doing great. Right.

[42:17]  And I will say, I'll just brag. I have the best staff anywhere. I don't care what anyone says. I have the best staff. They are committed. They're fun. They enjoy each other. They take care of each other. And they do amazing amazing amazing work. I love it. Yeah. Those small changes make the bigger diff that make those differences. And that's realizing you don't have to do like if you can't do the best health insurance in the world, maybe you can have some flexible time.

[42:43]  You know, maybe you can give people some flex time, understand when a kid is sick, let them work from home, you know, or Yeah. This is why you're a good leader because you care, right? You care at all levels, not just about the community, but those that are helping you serve the community. That's the important part. We got to help them, you know, so they can it can help others.

[43:01]  Um, it's that whole motto of of, you know, you got to help yourself to help others, but we also got to now that we got it, let's help others to help others because now we've already helped ourselves. So, I like that. Um, unfortunately we have to kind of start wrapping it up. We're having a good conversations. I can't believe how long it's been already. Where can folks connect with you and support your mission website, social media? Where can they go? We can go to amarilloerafoundation.org and then you can find us under the same name in LinkedIn and Facebook as well.

[43:32]  Love it. Love it. So, we're going to get to that blind question. I know I know that you probably were exciting about this. This is this is a fun twist of how we like to end the show. Okay. And I I think there's no better question than to ask you. If I couldn't if you could bottle up one lesson that these rural communities have taught you, something the rest of the world really needs to hear, what would it be? And why does it matter now more than ever?

[43:58]  There is nothing more important than face-to-face communication and relationships. You cannot learn people from behind a screen. Um, you've got to have that face-toface relationship because again, that's what breaks down who voted for who, what church you go to, what color your skin is. You have to get to know people as humans. And that's something that rural communities do in a way that urban communities do not because they still go to the diner and have coffee in the mornings. Mhm. So I that means you can't replace it. Yeah. I appreciate you. I appreciate all the insights, all the knowledge, all the gems, just the conversations that you're willing to have today that some nonprofits or some individuals in general are afraid to have. We thank you for being so open, so

[44:45]  authentic. Um just for giving us your time. If you guys are still watching, make sure that you guys do subscribe. Make sure that you guys do like. Remember, just sharing information makes a difference. So maybe you can't donate, but you can still share. It doesn't cost you anything. So you guys make sure that you guys are checking into a lot of these nonprofits that we're talking about, especially what Carol Lee is doing in her community. If you guys are in Texas, you know exactly where to find her. She's at the panhandle, right? So thank you guys so much. This has been the Heart and Hustle Podcast. We'll catch you guys on the next one. later some.