How Molly Ticknor Built the Foster Care Model Everyone Needs (FosterAdopt Connect)

[0:16]  Welcome back to another episode here on the Heart and Hustle Podcast. Our next guest says, "I came from comfort, but I knew I was supposed to use that to fight for kids who didn't get the same start. Molly, I'm so excited, which is why I wear my adopted shirt because that's that's really the space that you're in. And and I ask you, you didn't just work in this system. You actually chose to lead in it. And that's really a different kind of brave. Like, how did the art therapy lead you into the trenches of foster kid mental health?

[0:45]  Oh, goodness. All right. So, as a direct provider, uh, you you have a niche in mental health, and I knew that I wanted to always work with kids and families. I mean, art therapy is kind of a is something that is shown to work with kids. And then I just decided I want to work with kids who didn't come from the background that I came from that potentially are in residential treatment, don't have a family to go back to. So that's how I started my career was working in residential kiddos that were in the foster care and adoptive system who were either estrained from their families or didn't have a family because they were in the child welfare system. And I just I loved every minute of it. residential was really hard work. Uh and it was it was amazing to see the growth opportunities and have them form that connection that mental health and that almost spiritual connection with those kids and see them grow and and celebrate the small successes with them even if they had to remain in residential and in foster care. I felt like I still able to build those relationships with them. So, uh that led me to going into the mental health field full-time. I decided, you know what? I'm going to go get my LPC, which is a licensed professional counselor and

[1:57]  did that outpatient at a local hospital system. And then I started to supervise therapists and moved up, worked in 10 years at that hospital. And so I've been in leadership positions in the mental health field, the school system, and the state and federal level for now almost 16 years.

[2:17]  And still loving it. Is it even a job anymore, Molly?

[2:20]  Oh goodness. Yes, there's there's a tool or a job. But no, going to work is not a job. Going to work is just a passion. Going to work is living living the life that I chose to live. And every day is new. Uh working with amazing clinicians and other providers in this space and seeing again the growth of our families and just the connections that we're able to build that it's pure joy. I mean, it's it's a passion that I get to live every day. I I love this conversation because obviously being adopted, it is one that I feel um doesn't happen often, right? These conversations on what it actually looks like. And I remember you mentioning kids are waiting a year for help if they get it at all. And you didn't just point that out, but you you really truly build a solution. What's the system getting wrong about how we actually support these foster families?

[3:11]  Oh, first of all, we don't focus on prevention enough. uh we you know kiddos go into care into custody based on you know neglect or physical or sexual or some sort of abuse and uh instead of truly wrapping around that biological family we have kiddos that enter the foster care system and then don't seem to work themselves out. Um so they end up living in foster homes or in residential and some of them get adopted. We do have amazing families that do foster adopt which is really really phenomenal. It's it's a lifelong journey and and and a gift that the people have to offer. But but I think we just don't spend enough time on prevention and truly wrapping our arms around that whole family system. Often times we just treat that child like you have a kiddo that goes into foster care and they've experienced a high level of trauma whether it's individual, family, cultural or systemic trauma. And so we treat them but we're not treating the whole family. And that's why this program was created at foster.connect the clinical services program because we want to truly wrap our arms around that whole family unit.

[4:18]  And can you share a moment that proves why this wraparound model is actually needed?

[4:23]  Oh goodness. Yeah. So we have a family uh of five kids, five kids of various ages who entered into the system due to various allegations of pretty severe abuse and neglect but on the at the hands of their biological parents unfortunately and they ended up in foster care and there through some of our other programs that we have we were able to locate an aunt a biological aunt who decided I don't want these kids to be raised in foster care. I want them raised with a kinship family and I want to open up my home. She had never fostered before. She didn't really have a relationship with these kiddos. Um, and she took them all in. She took all five kiddos in under the age of 14. Um, and she accessed some support to foster that connect, but she also worked pretty closely with us at the uh um with clinical and all five kids were in therapy with her. So, we had that family focused model. So each indiv if they had individual therapists and then they saw her for with her for family therapy. We provided psycho education for the aunt. Kind of navigating what it was like to go from an aunt to now being a parent. Um having four plus teenagers in your home because majority of them were were pushing to be teenagers. And um I would say all kid all kids after a year of therapy and a year of wraparound supports were adopted by this this parent. And I think the biggest success, one of the things that she said was, "Molly, I don't I don't know how to approach the name things because she did have a last name and a lot of the the kiddos had different last names and she wanted to she really wanted them to have her last name." So, we walked her through that journey of identity. You know, when you go into foster care and you're adopted from foster care or adopted anywhere, your identity changes, right? Um, and so how do we make that as as easy and seamless and as possible with that family dynamic? And over the course of that therapeutic relationship and working with the kids and hearing from the kids and hearing what they wanted, he figured out, I don't need them to change their name. They're my kids. And a couple of them actually chose to hyphenate their name. A couple chose to keep their biological name, but it was their choice. and just seeing her shift and seeing their shift and talking with her a couple months ago, they're really successful. They still need some support. Obviously, you know, the therapeutic process isn't like a fix it thing, but seeing that journey with those kiddos and what could have happened if we're on it, it's like they could have ended up in foster care and they didn't because we were able to help support that parent. And believe it be believe it or not, Molly. Um my aunt is the one that adopted me as well. So she adopted me. Yeah. So what a story. She had four of her own kids and she adopted three of us. So she adopted me, my brother that uh my sister that follows and my brother that follows. Now mind you, she can adopt all of us. My biological mom had 10 kids. So um as she was having more kids, you know, my mom already had seven at this point. So it was kind of hard. But kind of really listening to a lot of these things that you're saying, right? That the last name and all these different things. I don't know that we ever went through that. Maybe we did. I'm not 100% sure. But, uh, it's just funny. I actually have the the same exact name. I'm named after my father. So, when people was like, "Did I get your name right?" I'm like, "Eh, it's cool." You know, like, you know, I I live with it. Um, but I'm not I'm not mad at it. You know, I realized that I think for a very long time, even I wish I would have had these resources growing up, right? You talk about just therapy in general. I didn't see a therapist until I was 30 years old.

[7:57]  Yeah.

[7:57]  Right. and and and and so and I didn't even know I didn't even know that there was things built up. I think I was sweeping things under the rug. I even tell my wife now I think I don't really remember my childhood as much and and maybe just because I kind of just turned a blind eye on it or whatever that may have looked like.

[8:14]  It was all you knew.

[8:15]  Yeah.

[8:16]  Yeah. Yeah. So, um, man, what what what a cool story and and really seeing people that, as you mentioned, don't end up adopted and they end up in foster care, you know, how how are we helping those individuals that are in the, uh, foster care system?

[8:32]  Yeah. So, our clinical program works with foster parents, foster kids, adopted kids, kinship kids, uh, kiddos that have aged out of foster care. We serve kiddos up to the age of 26. So you have kiddos that unfortunately remain in foster care and then they age out and unfortunately within our systems they lose a lot of supports. As soon as they turn 21 they lose a lot of their support and they're on their own. And so we have programs in addition to clinical to help them get a driver's license to learn the skills to be able to get a job to get housing to find stability. Um, and so I I always say that our clinical program is just a just a spoken the wheel of of what foster adopt can offer. Um, but so what we do when we have a kiddo in foster care, we still wrap around that family, right? That foster family, even though it might not be a permanent home, is still what that child knows. And we know based on a decades of research that having a safe home with a safe attachment, meaning emotionally safe, physically safe, and socially safe brings success. Like that that healthy attachment is what helps our kiddos. And so really helping focus on that relationship with that foster parent. Meanwhile, how can we build up that resilience with that kiddos like and hopefully address some of their trauma if they're ready, right? if they're ready, they're focused on what happened to them, then we work with them to try to overcome that so they can be successful and healthy, productive in their life, but we're still building connections, right? And so if if that foster parent decides not to adopt, are we looking for permanency? We we we work with our other programs in the state to look for permanent permanent supports whether that be a kinship placement like your past or you know a family member, a friend or anyone who might be an adoptive resource for that kiddo regardless of their age. So I

[10:25]  I want to talk about some of the things you're talking about some of the services that are offered to these young kids, you know, until they're 21 years old. Um, is this is this kind of just something that you guys offer or what is the I guess general assistance that someone can can have where they're located? And I'll tell you this, I'll tell you why. Right. So, I was adopted. I was born in Boston, but I grew up in Florida. So, when I got adopted, I did get adopted to in Boston, but we now resided in Florida. So, now I aged out. And what happens was that when I go back to Boston, because I'm not a resident, they couldn't help me. And because I wasn't adopted in Florida, they couldn't help me. So, I just, you know, and I was looking for some school help and things like that and obviously it just I said, "You know what? It is what it is. I'm going to go get a job. I'm going to pay for my own school and I'm going to figure it out." What is the general for those that are actually watching and and maybe there's someone that's adopted, someone in the foster care system, maybe there's a parent that wants to know this information. Is there something general that people should be on the should be mindful of that they can actually get some assistance without having to reach you?

[11:28]  They really should. And they really can. And every state, every community has a resource center that is like foster. Connect. It might be something different. Foster. Connect is based in Missouri and Kansas. So those are the two states that we serve. But every state there their children's division or their children and family services has contracts with organizations like foster.connect to connect them to resources and supports whether that be therapeutic supports or supports like foster. Connect offers. you know, even that if you are a child that's aged out of the system, there are sort of wealth of supports out there. I know some of the communities that are smaller, it's hard to access. That's one of the reasons why weight lists are so long for mental health supports is because we have so many rural communities, but we I I think just reaching out to someone at school too. If you are a school age kid or if you are a parent of a child or a foster parent or you're you want to be a foster parent, you know, look for those organizations that help licensed foster parents to become that resource or maybe you're a kinship provider and you just need some supports there. You know, just reach out look at look our schools are the hub, right? And that's what I used to say. I used to work in schools and I used to say, "Oh my gosh, they usually have a wealth of resources in their community to be able to help connect individuals to mental health supports or to supports for housing or supports to meet basic needs or supports to connect you to a peer who might be experiencing the same thing you are because we're not in this alone, right? Like come on. Mental health is is just like just as important and just as relevant as physical health." So, we're trying to amp up that that awareness, right, of what support

[13:12]  I need the I need the uh the Mali model. Are you guys going to be expanding into other states at any point? Is that the goal? What are you guys wanting to do?

[13:20]  I always So, right now, our clinical program, we're I say that we're sort of in the the early teenage. We are we're only four and a half years old. Uh the clinical program with foster connect just celebrated their 25 year anniversary. that the clinical program was developed for the reason like you said that the families that were served by foster connect were waiting one to two years for a qualified therapist who would take Medicaid who would take their insurance and so our CEO and our executive leadership said we want to build this internally so that's why I was hired and we built it from the ground up and we would love to be able to expand we would love to be able to expand to the other communities that we serve across Missouri and Kansas um unfortunately much like a lot of other nonprofits In our world, the the environment is not that great in terms of being able to expand. Funding is being cut everywhere. Physicians are being cut. Um, and we get funding from the federal government that goes down to the state, right? And we get we have great donors and great sponsors and we're able to build Medicaid for our services, but there needs to be more programs like this. There there needs to be more access to qualified mental health therapists who are able to work with kiddos and families that are in the foster care and the child welfare system, which means we're going to have to build up the workforce capacity, which is why I love being a leader because I get to do that, right? I get to take Yeah. I get to hire therapists and watch them want to be part of the community mental health world and want to work with this organization and want to work with this population which many of us are many of the mental health therapists are honestly shying away from community mental health unfortunately it's really really sad.

[14:59]  You guys have a couple of programs at Foster Adopt. How many programs in total? I think you mentioned

[15:03]  we have yeah we have 16 programs uh that help support families and foster families and across the board ages zero to 26 for kiddos that are aging out of the system. Um and then we have in addition to the actual programming we have a um a shelter a dropin shelter for teens that's in Springfield Missouri which is a really great new program where it's able to temporarily house homeless or unhoused youth. Uh and then we have a really great uh entrepreneurial program called the connect cafe which is a fully functioning cafe and deli and bakery where our young adults who are aging or have aged out of foster care have a job a living wage while learning the skills like it has a whole curriculum about daily living and transitional living. Um and then we have a children's home in Missouri as well in addition to one of our 16 programs that temporarily houses kids that come into care. So as soon as they come into care in another place, they can stay there. They're they're part of a family kind of area. Um and as while we can try to find more permanent stable housing for them. So you know this is all good. And what I also am seeing and maybe you can speak maybe you've seen it already heard of it is that a lot of young kids are using AI as a therapist chat GPT.

[16:24]  Um very surprised. I'm hearing that more and more now though, right? that people are using it and and it kind of got to be safe with that as well, right? Because it's all about what you prompt in. What is your thought about it? I mean, you're not anti-tech. You're definitely prohealing and tech should help and not replace that. So, what is your thoughts?

[16:40]  I think it's a compliment. I see AI and, you know, chat CDP and talk and virtual therapy as a complement to intensive services. Um, when we built this program, you know, we work with youth and and families who have experienced pretty significant trauma, you know, that otherwise would be in residential or potentially have had numerous psychiatric hospitalizations. And there's something to be said about that that human connection, right? Like being in a room with somebody and being there with them and being able to see their all the non-verbals because so much of our communication is non-verbal and having that connection. I always say 95% of a therapeutic relationship is that building that rapport, right? And I I think there's potential if misused that AI could replace that. And then are we alienating ourselves even more from the general population when mental health could be about getting out in the community and building that plat and building that sense of community and that support? I definitely think there's a place for it. I think more and more of our teams are more comfortable having that screen um

[17:51]  in front of them to be able to kind of put that boundary up um and and it's at least it's a connection. I just I worry about it taking over that human connection.

[18:02]  But definitely want people where they're at. So I

[18:07]  I don't know if it was you that mentioned this to me but um there was a young girl that was when she came in person it was one she was a little shy and nervous I don't know if it was you or another leader in the space of mental health and then when they seen that same person virtually now this person's in her home around her stuffed animals in her environment it became a different person

[18:29]  you know and it sometimes is like that you just feel more comfortable but I tell you what I think once you once someone could build that rapport. It could be something that you could do it in person or virtually. I think some people would just love to be in their comfort zone first and then let me kind of open up. Do you think that's just kind of where we're headed in the space?

[18:44]  I think we are. I think it's just kind of like, you know, we didn't normally back when I first started therapy when I first was a clinician, everything was in office, right? You didn't you didn't do a lot of inhome therapy and then inhome therapy became more common. And I think that's the same. You have this kind of transition, right? Because when you're in someone's home, they obviously are more comfortable. And as a clinician, you get to see and experience what that true dynamics, whether it be a family or a couple or a youth,

[19:14]  what what they look like in their home, what's going on in that home. And I think you have to be comfortable to want to participate in therapy. It's not something that can be prescribed, right? And so, uh, I feel like if that is what is comfortable for them, then I believe that as mental health professionals, we should make that fit because it's about meeting that individual or that family where they are at, which is, I think, again, why our program is so unique. We're meeting them where they're at. We're not telling them what to do. We are literally walking beside them and offering them that supports around them to be able to to be successful and to hopefully get to the point where they feel like they can start working on some of their past trauma to be able to

[19:59]  feel a little bit better and a little a little bit less weight from their shoulders from what's happened in the past.

[20:06]  We need a lot more Mollies out here in the world. We need a lot more of you out there and just so passionate. They're so passionate.

[20:12]  You're a Molly. I am a Molly.

[20:17]  Really? I mean, everyone,

[20:19]  you don't have to have a license. You don't have to be a therapist. Like I always say, like when you build a connection with a kid, whether you're a janitor, whether you're a podcaster, whether you are a neighbor, like you are therapeutic for them. That relationship can be therapeutic. And so you talk about what people can do, build connections with you, you know, I mean, form that connection. be that mentor, be that support system. Not everyone needs therapy, right? Even the most even the most traumatized kids who've experienced the the most horrific trauma just sometimes don't need intensive therapy. And that's another thing that we really assess when they walk in the door is where's their level of need, right? And how can we support them? And that might be linking them with someone like you, right? It doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to be in intensive therapy.

[21:11]  Hey, real quick. If you're enjoying the podcast, we first want to say thank you and we also just want to give you a little insight of what we're up to at Francis. Some don't even realize that we're working with organizations to help them use AI to create that real human communication experiences where that's actually supporting your your families, those patients or the entire community. We're actually creating tech that connects. Check it out. Francis.ai. You're right. You're definitely 100% right. And and you know, even if it's I don't know, man. I when I think about therapy and just mental health, I just had a heard a crazy story this weekend and how someone um ended their life at 41 years old, right? And the exact words the person said to his wife was, "I can no longer face my demons."

[21:57]  Wow.

[21:58]  I love you. I can't face my demons. And and it hurt me because the man's 41 years old. I'm 35. He left kids behind. And I think at sometimes pe we already I think the mental health conversation is actually more out there than ever, right? We're talking about it and I think we hear a lot, but it's also making sure that we're not just ignoring our youth when they say they have these issues,

[22:21]  right?

[22:21]  Because I see that a lot as well, right? I I've I've heard um a child say, "I have anxiety." And the parents say, "What do you mean you have anxiety? You're 15 years old. You have XYZ." And it's like, but you don't know what that per that person's going to through mentally, right? And sometimes not open about some of these stories. For me, when I was being sexually abused, you know, for years, and then I was already dealing with the adoption. I was hearing with things as of I was picked up off the street for the money or I was, you know, all these different things. Like, tell me that doesn't really mess with your mental, you know, and you got to keep showing up. Yeah. You got to keep showing up, right? So,

[22:56]  it becomes a labor, I'm sure. You know, I mean, like I said, that burden that you constant and just can't take it anymore. And people when people contemplate suicide, that is a five second moment. Not that they haven't about it, but the moment the act of actually doing is 5 seconds because they feel like I just can't I can't do it anymore.

[23:16]  Um, so you're exactly right. I don't want to downplay the need for therapy at all. Um, but I think the point that we need to make is we need to create the spaces where where people especially you can talk about it, right? And feel comfortable going to someone to talk about it. And and one of the things when I was in a school when I was the director of schoolbased services, the first thing that we put into place in our school district at Kansas City, Missouri school district was universal screening. So when they came to the counselor or the nurse, whomever that frontline person was, we screened. So, we ask those basic questions, you know, when was the last time you felt like harming yourself? Do you feel anxious? Are you having trouble sleeping? Like those kind of five or six questions to really get and then if they had some of those symptoms, we immediately connected them to the support, a therapeutic support to do more in-depth screenings. So, I think more schools are doing universal screens. I think more physicians are doing universal screens. You know, even when I go to the physician, they ask me, "Do you feel safe in the home? when was the last time that you felt depressed or you know you were asking those key questions because I believe

[24:24]  people are putting more emphasis on mental health and so yeah

[24:28]  I think

[24:29]  opening the door to have those initial conversations where people can feel safe enough and not shamed hopefully will get them in the door to be able to further talk about things that have happened to them that are too much for them to take anymore before they've taken action like ending their life. I was going to ask actually and you kind of hit it on the head. Do we need to normalize the conversation more? Right. We talk about health, taking care of our bodies and going to the doctor to take care of our bodies. And one thing I would love to if anybody that hears this is that when I went to therapy, one of the biggest things I realized is that no one was telling me what to do. People were asking me questions that allowed me to then sit here and say, "Oh my god, I didn't think of it that way." Right? I had all the answers within me, but sometimes it gets triggered by asking the right questions. So, I sat there and I'm not saying that I'd gone to a whole bunch of therapy sessions. I went to one therapy session and it was it just felt so good. And mind you, I tried to tell health. It wasn't for me, but I'm an energy in person type of guy. And um I would always just advocate for therapy even though I only went one time because I realized that I think there's a stigma out there that they're trying to control you or they want you to think a certain way. And it's really not. It's allowing you to see things very differently and in ways that allows you to kind of overcome the situation that you're in or sometimes stop thinking the way that you're thinking in the negative space and think about it in in a positive space.

[25:50]  Yeah. So, I went there and um man, I have to go see her again because she was so great and I want her to know that I'm talking about her all the time. But she was just so good and I think for a very long time we just haven't normalized a conversation that mental health and talking about you know how you feel anxiety and depression that it just seems like a bad thing to talk about when in reality it's like when our stomach's hurt or you know our heart is in pain what do we do we go to the doctor so why do we not go and see the brain doctor the mind doctor when we're in these situations and I just don't know that we've normalized it for now I think we are we're doing better but

[26:23]  I think we're doing better I think we're reducing the stigma but I don't saying that we're doing as good as a as a system. I don't think we're doing what we need to do. I think the conversations I love individualled conversations like are we engaging the youth in this conversation? Are they leading the effort? Like are there different what programs and curriculums are we getting our youth involved where they're leading that effort to create space to talk to one another about what's going on with them? And then our systems our systems are so siloed. It's just, you know, I've worked in inatient, I've worked in community based health, I've worked in hospital systems, I've worked at state systems, I've worked in federal systems and non back into um nonprofit and everything is so siloed um in terms of our systems that it when you're involved in the mental health system, it becomes so tiresome because you are referred to this therapist and this therapist and and you usually what happens in the child life system, someone is telling you what to do. someone is telling you you have to go to therapy. Someone is telling you you have to address your trauma. And we don't we don't do that at FAC. I mean, if you're court ordered to come to therapy, we'll talk to you, but we're not going to force you to do anything you don't want to do.

[27:39]  Um, and so I think you need to get over that as well as we continue to reduce the stigma that it's okay to talk about it, but your mental health is your physical health, right? Like if I don't know if you ever had a if you ever had like a really stressful day or a really really mentally draining day and you get a stomach ache or you get a headache like you can't have one without the other. And so

[28:02]  having those conversations and having true integrated health models is going to help support our youth and our families in the future.

[28:10]  I like that. that I like this conversation that we're having in hopes that as you mentioned a lot of our our young leaders also are just listening to this because I think it's also um hard for new leaders to actually get into the space when they don't see someone that looks like them in you know um in charge especially if you come from being adopted because we don't wear that you know proud proudly on our shirts that sometimes we may not think that someone like us are in these roles so I think normalizing the conversation it's okay to say that you're adopted you know I always remember saying this to this story to this one man and this is when like I was in my 20s and he was for he was like 40 some years old I'm early 20s and I just started to share the story of adoption and the abuse and all that and he kind of looked at me he's like man wow I never talk about that part of my life he's 40ome years old with a family and it's like but why not right like I don't my kids are are four and one and I'm already having these conversations you know my nieces my nephews I'm having the conversations to let them know that it's it's normal like it's okay like I I I don't feel any type of way about it. I'm actually happy. To me, I felt like, you know, I'm thankful for the opportunity that I received in life because I had a loving home and I can't say the same for all my brothers and sisters cuz I don't even know where they're at. Not everybody got adopted by the by family, you know? So, I love that we happen. But when it comes to those new leaders, how are you actually how do you coach those new leaders? Like, what are you telling them

[29:34]  in terms of like mental health? I think, you know,

[29:37]  no, just just Yeah, mental health.

[29:39]  Yeah. I I always look for ways to rejuvenate yourself and I'm always about like my trajectory. I think I shared this with you when we met before like I wanted to be part of the system. I like I didn't want to be I'm sorry. I didn't want to be part I don't want I wanted to help create a system like I wanted to get in there and change the system. And I think that's the passion that everyone has when they're in this field in the social service field and nonprofit world. You don't get in this to make a big box. like you get in this because you want to help people and so I think it's if you are thinking about a leadership position it's where do you want to make the change right and what are you willing to do to make that change and and and you said it when you introduced me like you have to get out of your comfort zone you have to be able to get out there and use your voice and be able to say what do I have to offer and I think aligning yourself with a group of people or an organization or individuals like you to create maybe a common voice to help get over some of those bugs about in those butterflies to be able to get out there and and advocate or be an activist and and share your story. Um I think we are creating more spaces with different programs to share your story. You know having that we we at foster.com connect we hire for lived experience and we actually have a few programs where you have to have lived experience to be employed in that program. So finding people like you and not being afraid to tell your story is is going to create that sense of community and build you up. But I always say as a leader like don't be afraid to take the leap. Like you just you have to be able to take the leap. And I feel like that has been my journey. And you know when I met in a job I was in the same job for 10 years and I saw an opportunity and I'm like I don't know it's kind of scary. I've been with the same same job. like I don't I don't know if I want to take that level of responsibility and that level of leadership and I'm like but I can do it and I just have to believe in myself. I just have to do it. You just have to

[31:43]  just have to walk it and and then I and then you just

[31:47]  you just have to have faith in yourself. You have to wrap your arms around a good leader and have a good mentor. I'm like I I can name I can list off one hand how many amazing mentors have I had and I tell you I meet them at least once a month for coffee because you you never stop growing as a leader. You cannot stop growing. You cannot stop learning. You learn from people like you. You learn from individuals in the community. You learn from your clients. You learn from your families. You learn from your staff.

[32:15]  You learn from your experiences. And that's that's what makes a great leader is being able to say I don't know everything, but I can surround myself with the people that can help me know everything.

[32:26]  I think that's how I won in life. Not going to be not going to lie to you, Molly, is I won in life because I surrounded myself with people that really seen more in me sometimes than I seen in myself. I recently just had a call and I love to call those people that had really made impacts in my life. Um, so this is one that when I was 19 years old, I was um training to be a general manager myself. And I got partnered up with this gentleman. Never met him a day in my life. And I remember how just upset I was because I felt like he wasn't moving fast enough for me. And I wanted to be trained and XYZ. You know, I'm 19 years old, just just stubborn as hell. And um, he really took his time with me, became more of a father figure for me and helped me become to me, I would say, the leader that I am today. Definitely pouring into him, pouring into me. So I had to let him know. I said, "Hey man, um I I sometimes we don't even know that we plant seeds and other people watered them. I felt like he planted a seed. He watered it and look where I'm at today and hoping that he's doing the same thing." And sometimes, not that we need it, but it feels good to know that, man, we don't do this because it's a job. You mentioned it. We do it out of passion and purpose. Even when we're not at work, we do the same damn thing because it it's not about a job for us. It's how are we going to help the next generation? you know, we're already here as adults and we're kind of already dealing with our own, you know, trauma and drama and all these different things, but how do we help the next young generation? Because it's not about us. You know what, Molly, it's not about us anymore, you know? So, I love it and I love that you mentioned a little bit that you were scared out of your mind to do something different, but you didn't let fear win either. So, I want to bring it back to that. What's that one risk you took that changed everything even if it didn't feel safe? Because I think a lot of times

[34:00]  we're stuck in a place cuz we feel like, is this safe or not?

[34:03]  Yeah. the fear starts to kick in.

[34:05]  It does. It scared me out of my mind. So, I was working as the director of mental health for a school district here in Kansas City and I was approached by a colleague at the state level and she said, "Hey, there's this new organization popping up. It was an alliance. It was a it was a school-based health alliance. It was a state organization. Um, and I really think you'd be great at it because you have the mental health experience, you have the leadership experience, you have the school experience. you could basically help create this program or this organization. So, it was a nonprofit that was state funded and and I said, I I don't know if I can do that. Like, I've never led an organization before. I've been a leader. I've I've supervised people. I've I've looked at a budget. I've I've advocated at the state level. I've been on that part of it, right? I've been at the federal level like advocating, but I've never sat at the table with

[34:59]  a bunch of really powerful people and I had to do that in this job. And I I said, "Melissa, I don't know if I can do this." And she's like, "You can do it." She's like, "You can learn all that. You can learn how to read a budget. You can learn how to do that. Like, you you can do it, Molly. You got it. You got the knowledge. You got the passion. You got the personality." And I'm going to tell you, this is going to sound completely crazy, but I called my sister and I'm like, oh my god, Annie, I don't know if I can do this. She's like, what do you mean you don't know if you can do it? I'm like, what if I fail? And she's like, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard you say. Like, and see, she just knows what to say to me. And I'm like, no, it's not dumb. It really wasn't a dumb thing to say, but it was like,

[35:40]  she's like, if you fail, you fail. Like, you need to try it. like it that might not be your career forever, but you need to try it. This is what you want to you have the opportunity to take your skills and share it at the state and federal level, which is what you've been talking about wanting to do like to create that systemic change on how to best serve kids mental health needs in schools. Like at the federal level, you could sit down with politicians. This is what you wanted to do.

[36:09]  Like how can you say no to this? And it was that conversation and then honestly taking the leap like, "Okay, I'm gonna do it." So I gave notice and I went to my boss and I said,

[36:20]  "I gotta do this." Like I I I have to do this. Something behind me is pushing me forward. And if I don't do this, it's a wasted opportunity for me and probably a wasted opportunity for the alliance. And so I just

[36:33]  And what a blessing this probably was, right?

[36:36]  Was it a blessing?

[36:37]  It was truly a blessing. I learned so much. I learned about a lot about myself. I learned about like how and when to advocate, how and when to use my voice,

[36:48]  how to lead with grace, how to how to take a step back, um how to budget,

[36:55]  how to run safe budget, you know what I mean?

[36:58]  So, I learned some I learned some hard skills, but you learn a lot of soft skills the more leadership opportunities you have and the more opportunities you have to get out of your comfort zone. the more you the the more you learn about your ability to be more well-rounded as a as a leader.

[37:20]  No, I I I love all that and I can it's like life be life and life would take you on a roller coaster. But if you didn't take that opportunity, you wouldn't have learned all the different things that you just named off here.

[37:31]  Right.

[37:31]  I don't know if I would have my current position honestly. I I

[37:35]  that too.

[37:35]  And that too.

[37:36]  I say I agree. You know, when I I I was working at Subway already. I was 19, 20, 21 years old or something like that. I'm a general manager. And then I had a friend that opened up a um a lounge and he said, "You show open up a cafe, you already run a Subway, right?" Like, "You run multiple subways, you know, for this company." I'm like, "Oh, I guess you're right." Like the difference between me working for someone at a general manager and I'm doing everything is that I had capital. So me doing it on my own, I'm putting in really the talent. Now I just got to go find the capital. Yeah. And um obviously I was still doing both. I should have just left my my corporate job, but I I decided to close the cafe. But when I was closing the cafe, similar to you, I I went to my mentor, shout out to Kellen, and I said, "Hey man, I don't want to um I don't want to look like I failed, you know?" And he's like 10 years older than me. I'm 20ome years old. I know nothing about life at this point, right? And and he's like, "What do you mean?" I was like, "I don't want my friends to feel like, you know, to look at me like I failed. I don't want to feel like a failure." And he's like, "Ephra, there's people twice your age that are still one day hoping they can do this. You did it. Now take whatever the loss was. It's not really a loss. It's a lesson." And then just make sure you don't make the same mistakes the next time. Right. And I would always remember that because I was like, "Yeah, you're right. Why am I so worried about failing?" And I learned so much about, like you said, myself in that moment that I was a leader, that I am an entrepreneur. It's just now I got to just make sure the next time I do it, I do it right. I surround myself with better people that I make a better decisions. So, I love that you you you know took that leap of faith, Molly, and look where you're at today.

[39:08]  You have to you have to embrace the

[39:13]  the hiccups, right? And you have to embrace like

[39:17]  the failures, whatever you want to call them. And I always say that, you know, there's there's very few professions where failure is seen as a strength. And I that's the other myth that I wish that our systems would change. You know, in science and in the medical field, like a failure could be a cure for cancer or could be the next, you know, the next great invention, right? But, you know, in the mental health field and in in education and in some of our systems that we work in today, failure can be a weakness that could destroy somebody. And I wish that we would flip that script, right? because it's some of the failures and some of the mistakes that I've made where I've learned the toughest lessons where I've been like, "Oo, I'm never going to do that again. Now, how do I grow? What do I need to do? What do I need to learn? Who do I need to talk to to build up that skill so that I can do better next time?"

[40:14]  When you think about your leadership, Molly, what do you want your leadership to actually leave behind? And I'm talking about for the kids, the families, and and even your team. I want my basically my leadership legacy. I want people to know that leading with passion and with grace and

[40:34]  with being able to take a risk. Like that's that's my leadership. That's what I want. Like you took a risk and look where it got you. Look how many people you've been able to support. Look at the growth of an amazing program that we've created at foster.connect. how many individuals I supervised throughout my career that became clinicians and continue to grow and I get to see them be successful and move on to leadership positions or whatever they're doing and the growth in their journey. My legacy is kind of like a parent, right? My legacy is like the individuals that I've supervised and the programs that I've built. You know, I I built a couple really great programs when I was at previous jobs. I'm not leading them now, but I can say I created that and now look at them. like they've taken and they ran with it and that's great but I was there to do it. So

[41:25]  yeah, that's so good. I had a blind question for you, but I felt like you almost answered it. So I'm I'm going to give it to you. Maybe there's another story you can share with us. Okay.

[41:32]  But um the question was that I had for you is you've built programs that save lives, but what's one moment you doubted yourself and had to fight your way back to belief? I almost feel like the story you just shared with me just a little bit ago was exactly that, but maybe you have a different story that you want to share. And there was one where I doubted myself and I had to come back.

[41:52]  Good one.

[41:52]  Yeah.

[41:53]  Okay. So,

[41:54]  probably a lot of those in our lives.

[41:55]  I do. I have a few. Yeah. I'm just trying to think of the best one. So when I was working in the hospital system and I was a supervisor, I started off as a clinician and I worked my way up to a team leader and then uh the facility that I worked with was creating a trauma-informed like basically program and we were training I was starting to dabble in that doing presentations and building curriculum for schools to be more trauma-informed and for organizations in our community to be part of that trauma-informed community. And at one point our CEO came and said, "We this is a full I said, you know, you need to build this up. We need to do more. We need to do more." And I said, "Well, I was still trying to supervise a team and supervise a clinical program while also trying to build up this business for for this hospital." And I said, "This is a full-time job. I can't do both of these." And and I tried to for a really long time. And that burnt me. I mean that was that was to the point where you talk about mental health leading to physical health.

[42:59]  I had a pretty severe me medical issue because of that. I mean a lifechanging uh experience that that led to some mental that led to some medical issues because I wasn't taking care of myself. I was

[43:10]  not eating well. I was working too much and and so my partner and my family and me came to like I can't do this anymore. I need to make a choice of what I'm going to do with my life. And that was another change that I had to make. I I changed jobs because I realized my life and my my family and my physical health and my mental health are more important. So I would say that would be another piece of advice is

[43:37]  don't let your stress get to the point and don't let your job get to the or career get to the point where it impacts your mental and physical health because you won't be able to you won't be able to do the great things that you're meant to do. So

[43:52]  very adult.

[43:54]  Yeah. Sometimes we're too loyal to a brand or to a company

[43:57]  and we got to be loyal to it. Like you mentioned, we got to be loyal to our minds, our body, our spirits. No, I love that. I love that.

[44:03]  Don't take risks, but don't risk your physical and mental health.

[44:07]  Yes. Yes. Yes. Well, Molly, we could do this uh even longer, but I know we both have things to do. Where can people find you? Are you on LinkedIn? What is the socials also to the organization so people can check that out as well?

[44:19]  Yeah. So, I'm on LinkedIn. Molly Piknor. Um I don't get on LinkedIn as much as I should, but I also have a Facebook page. Foster.connect um is on uh all the socials. Uh they have their own they have their own web page. They have a all the social media. You just type foster.connect. It's just at foster.connect for most of the whether it's Instagram or social. They also honestly if individuals are wanting to get involved or wanting to learn more, they have specific kind of support group Facebook uh pages for like foster parents or adoptive parents or or youth who have been adopted um to try to build that capacity online to create more natural support. So there's there's lots of ways to access.

[45:06]  All right, there we go. I appreciate you sharing that with us. Well, Molly, you have been amazing. Thank you so much for all the fight that you do for those that are in the foster system. Um, for someone that's kind of been in the in the space, it doesn't go unnoticed. I thank you so much. I think I was more excited about this conversation than any of my conversations cuz I felt like someone that knows me, right? Like you get it.

[45:28]  Get out there and tell your man. You got to get out there. You gotta

[45:31]  Oh, always got to be the voice. Off the skirt. Wear the skirt.

[45:35]  Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I you know, myself and you ever seen the show on the cover boss? No, I've heard it called Boss, but I've heard it. Yeah.

[45:44]  So, I was on the show Undercover Boss, and I think that's where my life kind of changed because the gentleman that was on the show with me, he was the chief development officer, and he had his own story. He he he um he's now sober, I think 40 years, something like that. But someone gave him an opportunity because he he was huge into just drugs and and and all that good stuff. And we always say um one day we got to do a speaking tour because I have a story and he has a story and there's a young story and someone a little older and it two different sides of the world, right? Someone that kind of overcame addiction. But that's what my mom, you know what, why I love that is cuz my mom to this day still an addict, you know, and to see someone that was so clean, it still gives me hope for her that she would be able to change her life. But I I I I do hear you. I think that uh doing a speaking tour, just being on stages and sharing that story more and allowing people to know like, hey, just cuz you're adopted, just cuz you're a foster kid, that's not the end of life, right? Um someone may have, you know, at the beginning of your life, someone may have wrote that part of your story. Your story goes so much further than that. And I think I Oh, I don't think I know that at some point in my life, I grabbed that pencil and I just started to write what my story was going to look like and share it. I'm so I'm so open. And so I'm I'm happy that you realize that yeah, we as as individuals sharing our stories like we do here today could truly change somebody's life and we would never know it. Molly, just me and you having a conversation today would change somebody's life.

[47:09]  Just someone seeing your t-shirt as you're walking down the street is is could be a life-changing experience for someone to be like, "Oh my gosh, I'm not alone." Right? Or

[47:20]  like our story is not just the words. Our story is how we present ourselves.

[47:25]  Testimony. There's a testimony in that.

[47:27]  Yeah, exactly.

[47:29]  Well, Molly, thank you so much, guys. If you guys are still watching, make sure that you guys do like, subscribe, and comment some comment adopted in the bottom of this if you actually watched the whole video. I want to know that you actually watched it and that you heard all the good things that Molly has shared with us. Molly, thank you so much. We'll catch you guys on the next one. My name is Ephrain. This is Molly with the Heart and Hustle Podcast. We'll see you next time. Lers.