How Rick Boxx Turned Faith Into a Scalable Business Reaching 1M Leaders by 2027

[0:00]  The transition is all about faith. And for me, the big step was is okay, I don't know how it's going to work. It doesn't make any sense on paper, but if God's in it, then it's going to make sense. And so for me, it really was about the step of faith and to just recognize that, okay, if I'm obedient, God's going to step up. And he just showed me that so many times that when it didn't seem possible, when I had family and friends say, "You're a fool.

[0:34]  This is never going to work." You know, I remember Ephraim one uh one moment whenever I had left banking. I started down this road. I had a a business associate that he and I had uh considered buying a bank together at one time. He sent me a letter and said, "Rick, you are an idiot. You need to drop this idea. No one is going to spend any money for someone that wants to talk about faith in business. Your family is going to starve. You need to pull the plug on this while you still can." And I remember saying, "Wow, thanks for the word of encouragement."

[1:15]  you know, and it was just staggering to be hit with that, but it really gave me even more resolve that, okay, God, if you're in this now, you're you now you have to show up. Yeah. And you know, I later bumped into that guy years later and he said, you know, I have watched what God's done with your ministry and I apologized that I was such a hard-hearted fool and didn't realize what God could do.

[1:58]  Welcome back to another episode on the Hard and Hustle Podcast. All right, y'all picture this. You're sitting across from a CEO who walked away from big time consulting gigs to actually follow a call-in, but not just any career move, but a fullon faith move. Today's guest didn't just start a business, he's building a legacy powered by purpose. Let's get into it. Rick, how are you doing today, man? I'm doing great. It's good to be here. You love the intro?

[2:24]  Yeah, that's wonderful. Hey, man. For a leader like you, I had to make sure it was a a big time intro. And Rick, I really just want to kind of get started into it. If you can take me back to that moment in the bank, you said there were a leader that made decisions based on biblical wisdom. Yes. What did it actually look like and how did that even spark something in you? You know, it was so foreign to me at the time, Eph had had been hiding out from God actually for a long time since my childhood. and suddenly to work for a bank president that every time I would try and get a decision out of him, he'd quote me a proverb or he would tell me a parable, but then he would tell me how to go apply that to my problem. And as I would be obedient and go and try and do that, I marveled at how wise this was

[3:15]  and how well it was working. And it just was an incredible experience for me that put me on really a whole different trajectory in my life and a path as I realized that that book I learned as a child actually had some value and practical value for the business world. I mean and and it's paid off, right?

[3:40]  Just learning just just being like you mentioned being obedient um and doing. So I love it. But this has actually kind of led you into I would say a pretty cool spot because you go from a corner office type of success and now you're in a uh purpose over profit. Like what really pulled you into this direction?

[4:00]  you know, because of that bank president, uh, you know, shortly after that, I had a life-changing experience and a rip tide in Hawaii that really got me all the way kind of across the line to realizing that I needed to be obedient to God and I needed to be faithful to him. Mhm. And as I uh started the journey of just being enamored with the fact that this Bible had such great wisdom for business leaders and I always had a heart for business leaders. And so I went on a journey of trying to find are there any ministries out there helping these business leaders learn what I learned?

[4:41]  And at that time there just really wasn't much around the country. And so as I by that time I had switched banks. I was helping to run a small community bank that I was part owner in and we decided to sell it. And during that transition, as I prayed about what was next for my career, I just felt like God was telling me, you keep asking why isn't there anybody teaching these principles, that's what you need to go do and so I had to take the plunge.

[5:10]  So good. Oh my god, I love this. But a lot of people really wrestle with the idea of well just doubt in general when stepping into something new like how did you really feel about launching this nonprofit especially when you had something like fundraising that just not easy that's also part of the deal. Oh yeah I mean I would I was really scared to death. Uh I didn't know I really when I was young when I was 25 Ephron I actually started a car rental agency from scratch at 25 years old but unfortunately it was at the peak of the Jimmy Carter years when interest rates went to 21% and unemployment went to 13 and so it was a brutal time and I swore off after that experience I never

[5:57]  had any interest in being an entrepreneur again and then when God's leaning on me to go start this, I'm like, "Lord, you got the wrong guy. It's not me. Don't make me do this." But I just knew I was going to be disobedient if I didn't. And so it was really frightening to step in and to to jump out of banking, something that I knew and I'd done quite well in. And to jump out and to try and start something like this was really scary, especially, you know, as I transitioned into kind of the nonprofit space. I mean, I was a banker.

[6:34]  People came and asked me for money. All of a sudden, the tables were turned and I'm like, "This is not fun. I've got to go ask other people to help fund this thing. And so, yeah, that was a challenge. That's one of those things that as um when you get into the nonprofit world, I always remember someone saying, I wanted to get into real estate, but I started my nonprofit really early. And um I'm like, "Hey, man, I want to learn real estate. You see people making money. You see the big houses, you know, where I was where I was seeing this man and I went to his house. He had a million- dollar home.

[7:02]  I'm like, "This is it. This is what I need to be doing." And u he says, "No, man. You're in the nonprofit world." He says, "You're going to do well out there." And I'm like, "Okay, how the hell?" You know, there's no money coming in. He says, "You're in an asking business. There's organizations that are getting millions of dollars right now as you're speaking. You got to go find those people." And I know you can do it.

[7:24]  And I'm sitting here like, I didn't know what what that meant, right? But as you mentioned, yeah, you got to be a good salesman. So, it's like that good salesman from the for-profit world probably could become a really good uh person to be asking for some money in the the nonprofit, but because I love the trajectory that you had there. And I always tell people when when you do business and you go and take that leap and start your first business, some people one don't ever get there. Then there's those that get there get burned, I like to say, and will never go back.

[7:57]  And then there's those like my crazy self that has done this over and over and over again, but you are now doing it. How do you feel being back at kind of that first step that you took out anyway? Yeah. You know, I I I look back and I kind of laugh at the fact that, you know, I swore off ever wanting to be an entrepreneur again after that uh youthful experience. But yet uh you know I've often heard it said that if you uh want to make God laugh, tell him your dreams. And and I really had no interest in being an entrepreneur again. And now that I look back, I've been part of over seven different startup organizations since that time that I swore off uh ever being an entrepreneur again. And so God just keeps throwing me

[8:47]  into those kinds of things. Y but uh they they've been fruitful and it's been, you know, a fun journey. I love it, man. If you look back over these 30 years, what's one moment where you knew God had his hands um really on this journey for you? Oh boy, there there have been so many times, especially in the early years whenever you're just trying to survive and you're not quite sure how am I going to get through this and if am I in the right place? And I can just tell you story after story of God sent uh people to just uh you know make it happen and to make it go forward. And I remember there was a time when I really thought I was done. I didn't have enough money to continue. I

[9:35]  had some bills coming up the next week and I really was beginning to think God wanted me to pull the plug. And I remember saying, "Okay, Lord, on this date next Wednesday, if I don't have, you know, x number of dollars, then I'm going to assume that you're going to want me to pull the plug." And, you know, God's never late, but he's rarely early. And uh he waited until that Wednesday. And I had a guy that drove all the way from St. Louis to Kansas City to meet with me, but he never bothered to make an appointment.

[10:12]  He He literally walked in off the street and told me that he got up that morning and prayed about who could help him develop a plan for his company. And God sent him to me. And I said, "Couldn't you at least have called and made an appointment or something?" He said, "I just figured if God sent me, you'd be here. And when we talked, he asked, "What would it take, you know, what would it take to do this plan?" And I had a set standard rate at that time.

[10:46]  And when the when it the words came off of my lips what his set standard rate was on my sheet, it was the exact amount I had prayed that I needed. And this guy wrote me a check on the spot. And I'm just like, "Okay, God, I guess we're still on. Here we go." I love it, man. I love those stories. And um yeah, when you're in it, it's not fun, you know?

[11:08]  It's not fun. But you have to be patient. You have to continue to believe. You got to have that faith. Like he really tests us when it comes to just having faith because I've been there. And and and you know, that's another great testimony for any of those that I actually catch. And that's actually a really good one. Um, do you feel there's a big misconception when people think about running a faith-based business?

[11:34]  Yeah, I I think that there's uh a lot of fear that so many people are taught that, you know, this separation of church and state. You know, you don't ever talk about politics or religion in business and all that kind of stuff. But what I would contend is I think what most business leaders would say is is that they truly would like to have an ethical workplace.

[12:01]  But if that's true, how can you tell your employees to check their faith at the door when it's their faith that shapes their ethics? Yeah. It's never made any sense to me. Instead, why wouldn't you want them to bring their whole person to work and to live it out the way that they were trained according to their faith? And and it's just it's sad whenever we get fearful and we think that we can't go that direction. I agree. I agree. And what's really cool, man, is you have a really bold vision reaching 1 million business leaders with God's word by 2027. Yeah. However, how do you how do you stay focused on a goal that big without ever feeling overwhelmed? I mean, we're around around

[12:47]  the corner right now from 2027. It's in here at a blink of an eye. You know it. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, whenever we started down that journey, it just seemed almost stupid. I mean, it seemed ridiculous. How are we going to do this? You know, this is such a such a huge goal. I'm not sure how we're going to do it. But we just kept focused and God's been so faithful and so we're well past the twothirds mark now and we're marching forward and in a good clip and so God has just been faithful to bring us many opportunities that I would have never dreamed of and you know platforms like uh the Bible app on people's phone.

[13:30]  I mean they asked me to pre uh to prepare reading plans for that Bible app. Well, we ended up with 450,000 subscribers just through that one app alone that I would have never even thought of. And so, you know, God has a plan. We just uh do our best to follow the plan and do our part. I like this. I like this. And most folks think really that when it comes to mentorship or education, um but when it comes to your organization, you add faith to the mix.

[14:02]  What does that actually look like daytoday for the people that you you serve? Yeah, so we we try and serve first at the individual level uh and then a lot of times that will lead to their workplace or their business uh as well. But uh there's many ways that people can plug in with us. We do major events in uh we do a national event that comes up April 29th and 30th this year here in Kansas City. So leaders come in from all over the country for that. Uh we also do local events in Kansas City and De Moine. And so people get invited in and maybe they've never thought about the fact that God has actually has a plan and a purpose for the work that

[14:48]  they do. And so they can come and hear a Christian CEO or author that speaks about their journey and how that's worked out for them. And so that's one way that people can connect and begin the journey with us. Others are digital. Some people, you know, subscribe to our daily radio broadcast or podcast or our daily broadcast emails and they start to kind of get dripped on with daily workplace stories with biblical principles woven in. Uh and then we have small groups uh that meet all over the world uh that people meet once a month with video high video uh high quality video training content uh that we've developed with discussion questions and a real scalable model that any leader

[15:37]  that wants to lead a group can take our model and start up a group in a conference room or a church or a large corporation whatever uh they so desire. And so there's just a lot of different ways that we connect with people. Hey, real quick, if you're enjoying the podcast, we first want to say thank you.

[15:57]  And we also just want to give you a little insight of what we're up to at Francis. Some don't even realize that we're working with organizations to help them use AI to create that real human communication experiences. Whether that's actually supporting your your families, those patients, or the entire community, we're actually creating tech that connects. Check it out. Francis.ai.

[16:18]  AI. Yeah, man. You guys are tapping into a lot of different spaces there. I love it. Look at Look at the entrepreneur in you, man. Look at Look what you've had in you this whole time. Now, I I do feel like sometimes we got to go out in the world and learn some of these things as well, right? I'm pretty sure those startups you're talking about, they were learning lessons everywhere. You know, whether we didn't realize it at that moment, when you go back and think about it, like uh I'm always a believer that anytime I go to a job, it's what's in it for me? What am I taking out of it? you know, not so much I'm just here for a check, but I'm here for a skill. I'm here to learn something. Sure. So, all these things, I'm pretty sure led you to this moment where you just kind of been knocking out of the park and thinking outside the box, which is uh something that I'm pretty sure you had, but just again, it got trained to to be better over time. What What does it look like when faith and business actually collide

[17:07]  like in a powerful way? Yeah. You know, we we labeled this uh unconventional business excuse me, because it is unconventional to the way the world typically does things. And so if you think about many business owners, I think are driven by the bottom line so much that they will use up their people and spit them out after they're done with them.

[17:34]  Whereas the Bible, excuse me, I'm sorry. Oh, good. I'm sorry. Whereas the Bible will actually teach us about being servant leadersh and trying to be a shepherd to our people instead of being a tyrant to them. And so there's a lot of different uh paradoxes in scripture that I think when we use them, we see the uh brilliance of God's strategies and then we just try and use that brilliance uh and follow God's lead. and implement those kinds of things in the businesses that we're part of.

[18:16]  Do do you remember um that one thing you learned about yourself in that transition from uh the for-profit banking world finance into what you're doing today? uh you know I think that uh the transition is all about faith and for me the big step was is okay I don't know how it's going to work it doesn't make any sense on paper but if God's in it then it's going to make sense and so for me it really was about the step of faith and to just recognize that okay if I'm obedient God's going to step up. And he just showed me that so many times that when

[19:05]  it didn't seem possible, when I had family and friends say, "You're a fool. This is never going to work." You know, I remember Ephraim one uh one moment whenever I had left banking, I started down this road. Mhm. I had a a business associate that he and I had uh considered buying a bank together at one time. He sent me a letter and said, "Rick, you are an idiot. You need to drop this idea. No one is going to spend any money for someone that wants to talk about faith in business. Your family is going to starve. You need to pull the plug on this while you still can."

[19:47]  And I remember saying, "Wow, thanks for the word of encouragement," you know, and it was just staggering to be hit with that, but it really gave me even more resolve that, okay, God, if you're in this now, you're you now you have to show up. Yeah. And you know, I later bumped into that guy years later and he said, 'You know, I have watched what God's done with your ministry, and I apologize that I was such a hard-hearted fool and didn't realize what God could do. So, man, you're teaching him a lesson now. Yeah. Indirectly, right, just by believing in yourself. Um, what a story. What a story. And and and that's what happens, man, when people That's why it's when you tell someone your dream You know, it's your dream.

[20:36]  Yes. For someone else, it could be very like like you mentioned, crazy, stupid, but when God has put something in you that that's he gave it to you. Yes. It's going to sound stupid for everybody else, you know. So, and I love that you you stuck to it and you like, "No, this is what God, you know, instilled in me.

[20:54]  This is this is the direction I'm I'm going. I'm not even asking any questions." Sure. Right. There was no questions to be asked, right? So, I I love it and I love that, you know, life came back and he was able to actually um at least admit his wrong. That that I think that's huge on him. Sure. Um I want to talk about AI. You talk about all the different things that you're doing within the organization. AI and faith-based business. How does that look like? Is that something that you guys are utilizing, even thinking of? Yeah, I I sincerely believe that although you get people on both ends of the spectrum, I mean, I would say that there are some Christians that are scared to death of it and think that uh you know, AI is from the devil. And I I think it's like the internet or any other tool is is

[21:41]  that it can be used for good or evil and it's just simply a tool. But I do think that uh it is a tool that's going to quicken the pace of business and it's going to give lots of opportunities. I think it will also level the playing field just like I mean I remember when the internet really got started in business and people were scared of it back then and didn't know what to expect. But it really leveled the playing field for a small local business to all of a sudden have the world as your platform and to be able to sell product anywhere in the world. Well, AI is going to pick up that pace even further and to enable a lot. And so I think that it's going to be important

[22:29]  that people be aware uh what the tool can do for them. And so we're we're starting to try and use it for you know different simple things like copywriting and uh you know different things that may help on the marketing strategy side and you know there's there's a lot of tools that you can use and especially for research and all kinds of things and so I think there's more and more and so at our summit conference this year we've got a couple of experts coming in on AI that they are adept It's showing small businesses how you can use it as a very practical tool to save thousands of dollars and lots of time on implementing projects that you normally would have

[23:18]  had to hire an entire teams of people to do. Yeah, I think it's a special thing AI being able to um especially I think at the nonprofit level help out almost like if you had a whole another team right with so many things that could integrate together to create one human that you're like can't even you know they're helping you on whether it's community engagement whether it's reaching out to um your donors whether it's reaching out to whoever it may look like I think it's we're in a sweet spot for nonprofit profits and I'm happy to actually see nonprofits putting this into their organizations faster than actually I thought because for a very long time nonprofits don't innovate fast enough but I'm actually seeing a lot of nonprofits think about AI and how it could be utilized and I think it's

[24:05]  pretty cool I I probably mentioned it to you at some point I love to mention it to all leaders because if no one's using this um AI as a grant writer like oh can't get no better than that I'm like and I didn't even when someone told me that I'm like wait a minute yeah that actually works I use chatp all the time never for to write grants, you know, so some sweet spaces. You think AI and the Bible can kind of coexist in the same boardroom?

[24:30]  Sure. Uh, absolutely. I mean, I' I've been surprised at uh some of the content that AI will kick out whenever I try and do research. I I usually I write a lot and so I won't use AI because I want the personal touch on what I'm doing as far as the final product that I'm delivering, but I will use it for the research. And it is amazing to me how quickly it can glean stuff from the Bible and pull up examples and stories and and even, you know, pull out other people's thoughts on a passage or whatever. And so I think there's a lot of uh value in being able to kind of use it in that way. When it comes to the the

[25:19]  Bible or even a personal practice, do you have that personal practice or scripture that fuels your your leadership style? Yeah. I mean, I I really personally take it as an important step to be in God's word every day. And so I I want to study God's word. And actually, I've been on a really long-term journey. Actually, I don't know if I would have started if I would have known how long it's going to take. Uh, but I started in the beginning of the Bible and I'm doing a journal on all the biblical principles in the Bible that can be applied to business.

[26:01]  And so, I've been at it for probably four years now. And I'm just in the book of Jeremiah, so I haven't even hit the New Testament yet. Uh, but it's fascinating to look at the Bible through the lens of a business person and say, "Wait a minute, that principle that could work. I could see that being applied in a practical situation at work." Yeah. And being able to to map it out in a journal so that I can help share that with other people as we go. I was going to say, Yeah, man. What does that look like? a journal at some point, a book at some point. Like there's some I It's funny because I always say the same thing with what you read in the Bible, man, it's really happening in life, whether it's in really personal life or even in your business life. And and you see that all the time. And I think that's what's so cool about um a

[26:49]  leader like yourself, right? you you just have that information whether it's when it's comes to the Bible and how to put that in business perspective and you can give that to people and it it actually does open the doors and open ups the minds for other people to be like oh I I didn't see that that way but it all makes sense the same way that you had that leader in your life one day that you didn't see it that way but damn it made sense you know so I I actually love that you're into it man that's so cool um what would you say to a business owner out there who feels feels like they're just called to do more, but they're probably scared to even take that leap, right? The leap of faith.

[27:27]  Yeah. What do you think? You know, I I would say there's different levels of fear for a lot of business leaders, especially if you're running a business or you're responsible for a large group of people. There's this fear of is it legal? You know, can I bring my faith to work? The reality is is we've worked with a lot of attorneys that are represent Christian legal rights all the way to the Supreme Court and they will tell you that they have won 95% of all court cases they've ever tried. The law is actually more on our side than we realize. It's usually not the law, it's people's fear. And so we just need to be bold and step up and realize that if we get in trouble, there are actually uh

[28:18]  these uh Christian attorneys that they will represent people for free to help them get out of these kinds of jams uh because they usually win and they know that the law is on our side. And so the the legal side of it is one fear that many people have. You know, I think there are others and that usually goes with, you know, what are people going to think of me and what are they going to say about me? Those kinds of things. And that's a fear that, you know, Jesus talked about for those who deny him, he's going to deny them. Yeah. And so we we just have to really suck it up and be bold and say, "Okay, if he's my Lord and Savior and he was willing to die on the cross for me, then I guess I need to have the courage to at least step up and

[29:06]  take a little ridicule once in a while." I love this, Rick. I can only imagine that's going to be a clip when we edit all this. This that was that was really good. Um, what's your anchor in leadership when things get lonely? because I can only imagine leadership. I mean, not only can I imagine, I live it at times. So, what anchors you down during these moments? Yeah, I would say uh heavy in prayer and uh you know, and just going back to God's word and trying to understand, okay, am I missing something here? Is there something that I need to be gleaning out of the circumstance that I'm faced with? and and just really trying to take it to the Lord and really just be listening and be faithful to obey what I feel like I'm

[29:57]  hearing uh from the Lord in how I move forward. And so, it's really just that uh anchor of faith that is just required, I think, for us to be able to weather the storms. I like that. And if there's someone listening who feels um who feels that nudge to really bring more faith into their work, what's one simple step they can actually take today?

[30:22]  You know, I I think uh it doesn't have to be overwhelming. I mean, I don't think that you have to go pull out your Bible and bang people over the head with it. I I think it's looking for opportunities to love others. I mean, the Bible's all about love God and love others. And so, if you look for opportunities to love others, and sometimes it's as simple as saying, "Boy, it looks like you're struggling.

[30:51]  You know, is there something I can pray for you about?" That that in and of itself, rarely will anybody, you know, turn you away. Uh we recently in our staff meeting had a conversation about okay let's make a commitment as a team that when we finish up phone conversations with whoever we're talking with that let's commit to talk about praying for them and ask if we can pray for them. And just today in our team meeting uh one of our team members said you know that that's pretty easy with a lot of the Christians that we talk to.

[31:28]  He said, 'But I had a couple of people that really were not Christians that I was talking with. And he said, I've been amazed that no one rejected me. They all were kind of stunned and they paused for a minute, but they would say, well, that's really nice of you. And well, I'm okay. I, you know, I don't need anything today, but at least, you know, they weren't rude about it or anything else, but it it prompted them to think. And so I I think that's an easy step that you can do is just look for opportunities to pray for someone who's hurting because rarely will they turn down prayer. I like that. I like that. Uh tell us a little bit more about the organization.

[32:08]  What is a a typical day in the organization look like? Yeah. Well, it's all over the place depending on what day. Uh I mean we we do these events and so those are big days for us and we'll have several hundred business leaders show up for those events and so those are fun days to see people gather, connect, learn from the speaker and learn from each other. Uh other days we may have our monthly uh forum groups that are meeting in places all over the world. And so hosting one of those or getting to attend one of those where you see uh you know a small group of people that meet every month and learn from each other and watch the videos that we've developed and all of that is fine.

[32:53]  Uh other times it's a lot of writing. I mean, I do a I've been doing a daily vignette both by email and radio for over 20 years, and I never dreamed I could have that much content. But I've been writing a short story every day for 20 years that always has a biblical principle and a workplace story. And so, there's a lot of writing that goes in for that as well, as well as many books that I've written uh also. And so just a lot of content creation and events that we host. I mean, you you're the man. I mean, that's a lot, you know, when you think about it. And and it's what's cool is probably that since you journal so much, maybe it's a little easier. Yeah.

[33:40]  Right. To journal while you're going through the Bible. I can only imagine that makes it just a little bit easier. Probably. Yeah. And if people want to get involved into what you're doing in the organization, maybe they they just want to know more. Where do they plug in? Where do they go? How can they get more information? Yeah, if they go to unconventionalbusiness.org, that's unconventionalbusiness.org, they can actually sign up to be a free associate member, that'll get them access to our free daily uh content. And it's people like it because it's a it's a one minute vignette. I mean, it literally can be a one minute devotional for you in the morning. And so people can uh sign up and join that. There's other options for them to get even more content and access. Uh but there is that free option and so they can vi visit us at the website and plug in there or they might

[34:28]  want to join us at our national conference that's coming up the end of April. Uh that's a great place for people to come and plug in and see what's going on as well. Where's it located? In uh Kansas City at the tha conference center in a suburb of Kansas City. Love it, man. No. Yeah, definitely. Let's plug all that in. Um, before we get to that blind question, I ask you this last question. Um, if I if I'm going to say something, you got to finish it. Okay. Okay. You don't need to separate faith and business. Here's why.

[35:01]  Your turn. Yeah. You don't need to separate faith and business because God created it all. And we are built and we are called I believe to live a holistic life. We need to bring all of our self to work and not just a part. We we don't want to compartmentalize because then you're living a Dr. Jackekal and Hyde scenario.

[35:31]  So I I think it's really important that we truly integrate our faith into all aspects of our life including our business life. I love that. And this is my favorite part of all the podcasts is always that blind question, but this this question had to be a little bit uh to you. So, I had a little bit of play in this question myself. If God told you to walk away from your organization tomorrow and start something totally different, what would it be? And would you say yes?

[36:05]  What would it be? And would I say yes? Well, first of all, I would say yes if I knew for sure that God was calling me to do it. I mean, it would be hard because I've put a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into this. Um, you know, but what would it be? Um, boy, that's a great question. I love so much what I'm doing. I can't envision doing much else but you know it would probably be something you know financially or investment related. Uh I always had a passion in the financial and investing world and and the business world and it it certainly could be entrepreneurial starting you know a new a new business of some sort.

[36:51]  I mean, I sit here and based off everything you told me, I'm surprised you didn't say like a an author or uh you know, like I'm helping others people tell their stories. Some along those lines, man, to know that you write as much as you do and you journal as much as you do, that's actually pretty cool, man. You know, just imagine that that there's a career in that, right? I mean, I'm pretty sure people making money off of that, but um I think you would go down that direction, but the financial world, yeah, makes sense.

[37:18]  Entrepreneurship in general, looks like you had that in you. Did you did you see your parents um entrepreneurs when you were young or how did you kind of get into even wanting to open up your own? No. Going back to the beginning, but yeah, you know, my my grandfather was kind of entrepreneur. He wasn't a very good one. He failed several times. Uh you know, but I was around him a lot, but other than that, no, there wasn't much entrepreneurship around me. It just was something that I and I didn't even think about it until I mean years later I remember one time telling a good friend of mine from high school and college that you know I I never was an entrepreneur. I just didn't feel like I was an entrepreneur. And he goes who are you kidding? You are always selling stuff. You know he he said even when you

[38:07]  were 12 years old you were going door too selling newspapers and greeting cards. and he said, "You were always doing something." I'm like, "Well, yeah, I guess I was. I just never considered that as a business at the time." I I think what's uh even more neat now that you say that was you said your your grandfather was an entrepreneur, just not a good one. And and he failed. Well, he failed for you to learn, right? You were learning as he was failing. So, a lot of the times, man, it's you don't even know why you're making the sacrifice for it. Doesn't even need to be for us, right? I always say it's not about us. Um that's that's one of the things I had to learn especially when I became a father. It's not about us. It's about what we're pouring back into the world. You know, we only have but so much time on this earth that God is going to bless us with. And what did you

[38:55]  do while you were here? You know, with all the resources and everything he's given you. Did you do the right things? You know, that's how I look at it. So when you when you said that about your granddad, that's the first thing that popped into mind. Yes. Man, what a blessing he gave you, Rick. Oh yeah. Yeah. Well, Rick, it's time for your blind question. For the next leader that we have here on the Heart of Hustle podcast, what is your blind question to that leader?

[39:20]  Yeah. I would I would ask, how important is character to your industry? Okay. Okay. I love that. I love that. Guys, this is the Heart and Hustle Podcast. It has been a pleasure to have Rick here. Make sure you guys are tapping in, okay, to what's really happening here. Um, I love the journey that it took you to get here. I love you being so open and and it's not a lot of times people want to talk about faith because it's something that people think it starts uh, you know, these enemies, but it doesn't. I think it really brings people together and it allows us to really know one another. I love what you mentioned about the HR earlier, right?

[39:58]  If if you want people to truly be themselves, then why do we limit them? Um, and and I think that you're changing that within your organization. So guys, if you're enjoying this show and you love these type of episodes, make sure you guys do share, subscribe, and again, Rick, thank you so much for your time and we'll see you guys another episode, The Heart and Hustle. E frame. And I'll see you guys in the next one.