How to Build a Legacy That Lasts

[0:00]  you have social responsibility to make sure that everybody around you is taken care of um and our our young folks remind us of that like it's it's not about I no uh it's about like how do I make sure that my friends are good too and that that responsibility to the people around you I feel like you know there's a saying that says like a rising tide lifts all boats and I feel like this idea of taking everybody with you is the antidote to a lot of the problems that we're seeing as far as like social isolation and loneliness and people identifying with if I'm from a certain space a zip code if you will then I'm destined for a certain I would say Destiny rather than being able to expand my time Horizon all right guys welcome back to a

[0:58]  brand new episode of the heart and hustle podcast I'm incredibly excited because I'm sitting across this digital table with Gary lenon who is the CEO of peer forward Gary welcome to the show man good afternoon how are you how are you a good day rather man I'm doing good I'm really excited to you know share your heart and hustle you know today's going to be an amazing conversation not only about the work that you guys are doing at pure forward but why this work is so important to you now I kind of want to ask an opening question here how's your heart doing today Gary um you know it's Monday um I am still in reflection mode I would say that uh just you know in light of you know let's just call it you know where the United States is just having a recent election and just trying to figure out where the state of America is today myah heart is you know in AO of

[1:47]  reflection um and just trying to figure out what that may mean for us in the future and what do you reflecting on let's kind of dive into the conversation a little bit what are some of the things that are kind of like on your heart these days as we're having these reflected moments on a Monday yeah you know it's like I'm I am concerned about the future of the United States particularly when I'm thinking about you know I have two little ones um and I'm always just thinking about I I'm my optimistic person um and the the election puts me in the space of like what do we need to do to make sure the next generation of our young folks have the ability to be in a space where you know they can Thrive and create so that's at the metal level just at the personal I'm just always thinking about my little ones like I'm thinking about who's going to pick up my little one

[2:33]  right now in a half hour right but that's because of the implications of you know not having adequate child care not daycare so there's so many like systemic other things and that's where my heart always is like what about tomorrow yeah you know what as I think about the events that have happened um with the announcement of our new elected president right we've seen the economy from the stock market and things go crazy right Bitcoin and all those things are at all-time highs and we're talking about economic outcomes when it comes to that type of stuff but we're talking about a Grassroots communitybased impact which is much different from the explosion of the stock market and so a lot of people are really excited about the future economically of our country but a lot more people are really worried about what the next generation is going to have the opportunities to take advantage

[3:20]  of to be their best self and it sounds like you're really reflecting on that as well I am like you know it's it's funny like we have these abs and flows whenever there's a major shift in the US you know policies and so during any type of you know shift in the economics the policies of of our country we're going to see that but I am because I think some of the potential policies can have a Major Impact one way or the other on a future generation and I think I'm always just I feel like we owe it to our you know our children our grandchild on what are we doing today that's going to impact them tomorrow um regardless of how the outcome of the elections went but what are we doing to make sure that we're setting up up and I think that's just censored to how I'm always

[4:08]  thinking why do you do the work that you do at pure forward with all the other things you could be doing with all your time why is investing into the younger generation something that's so important to you and so close to your heart it is because someone invested in me at the end of the day you know I I I was Shar it was funny I was having a dinner with someone another CEO of another nonprofit and we we were talking about our shared experiences being from New York City and we were all like these thriving young individuals like what I would consider young I am 46 and I love it still young brother yeah still young still young but I you know I I mentioned that age because I grew up during the age of you know the AIDS epidemic the crack epidemic where you know as a a person from low a low income first uh generation grew up in a projects Center like I was around this community and we

[4:56]  didn't have much we didn't have anything at all really except ourselves and just being able to be in that community and then I had the opportunity to leave my community and go because they was like there's something promising because I felt like there was a dark cloud over you know us during that time generationally and it was like hey there's something about tomorrow and I think you have the ability to be able to help us tomorrow um so being able to get chosen going to a private boarding school you know think about it from Spanish Harlem and they're like I'm going to take you and send you a to Quaker School number one I was like what is Quaker could tell you right but all I knew was different from my own Community go there and so that that path changed the entire trajectory of my life because people saw something in me there was an

[5:43]  adult that saw something and it was like you had promise like that's like really really cool um and we want to help you so someone finally saw something in me and I'm like little old me from you know Washington project sure you know I'll go ahead and take advantage of this opportunity um and I'm Wonder maybe they didn't know that the reason why they saw something to me is because I have the ability to go Ahad and help somebody else didn't really understand that multiplier effect but pouring into me allowed me to be able to see the world in a different perspective I'm so fast forward go to you know a private boarding school uh that changed my life go to Cornell um but the challenge was is that I still came home and every time I came home I still saw the atrocities of what was happening from the society like you know I had sisters and brothers and cousins that were just as smart of

[6:30]  me but they were not giving me the same opportunity and while I'm yes I'm I'm I'm in these Circles of learning how to golf I'm like who golfs right but I learned how to golf like all of these different things that I was not um given access to but because of my network I know have an ACC you know access I have I have this ability to be able to change things in my my future um and so that bothered me and I was like I need to change something and just by going through that that type of transition I was like you know let me get back and help my friends cuz there's no reason why they're not getting the same type of help that I'm getting if you will that's a really interesting perspective because often when people give are given a a step up in life it's easy for us to say I'm different from everybody else I'm going to go down this path because this was my blessing I don't owe it to the

[7:17]  responsibility of going back and helping everybody else out why did you think it was necessary to go back and help other people who didn't have the same advantages of you rather than just navigating your own path because you were chosen for some of these other opportunities people people didn't get from upbringing like my family ingrained in us and the way that we were brought up it was never about me it was always about us so how do we as a community make sure that we're uplifting each other you know regardless of our circumstances regardless of where we lived if I had friends on the east side or the west side like it was about us and so for me I I just looked at it differently I was never a let me take it and go I'm like let me take it and feed let me help everyone else so I just I'm just cut from a different another side of the cloth if you will yeah I think it's really interesting I kind of want to reverse

[8:03]  again so when you had somebody who believed in you how did that feel when you were a young guy from Spanish Harlem who was given an opportunity did you feel like that was a gift that came from the outside do you feel like you were always worthy of that opportunity in life how did you kind of feel when somebody believed in you and gave you the opportunity to go to that private Quaker School didn't feel like it was a i it was just this idea of like I guess I should do it because some so so take advantage of it like there's something there and my my parents my grandmother and always you know my mother was like Hey if someone's giving you a chance like take advantage of the chance because you never know what the outcome is going to be and so that is a blessing I will but I never was like oh my God I have to go ahead and like sure it's something new and I think during that time we were excited

[8:51]  about trying something new because there was there was a a certain level of like curiosity that came with it you know one of the big things you guys talk about at peer forward is fostering social responsibility what does that mean back to this idea like it's the I and the we idea like you know I think we have a social responsibility to making sure that we're uplifting everyone within our community that's within our means because there's no way that we can operate by ourselves um without the next person to the left or the right um and our our young folks that here for it see that every day because again like we we were brought into this world around folks you have social responsibility to make sure that everybody around you is taken care of um and our our young folks remind us of that like it's it's not about I you know uh it's about like how

[9:41]  do I make sure that my friends are good too and that that responsibility to the people around you I feel like you know there's a saying that says like a rising tide lifts all boats and I feel like this idea of taking everybody with you is the antidote to a lot of the problems that we're seeing as far as like social isolation and loneliness and people identifying with if I'm from a certain space a zip code if you will then I'm destined for a certain I would say Destiny rather than being able to expand my time Horizon why do you think that that's so important and thinking bigger from where we come from because a lot of times when we're thinking about the obstacles that are in our way we tend to focus on that versus looking outside like I I use this analogy a lot of times with my young folks of hey you know on this side is where I'm at today and

[10:32]  I'm trying to get you know 50 yards 100 yards down the road and the question is am I going to look at at the obstacle and I'm going to look at the pathway to get around it and what you're going to find is that when you're trying to get around this pathway there are other individuals that are trying to do it too because we all will feel better when it's just us like do you want to be on the other side by yourself or when you celebrate do you love to celebrate with your family and friends I don't think there's anybody that ever says I want to go ahead and have a birthday and just be by myself I want to celebrate I want to make sure that if there's something that actually happened to my a friend of mine that was uh help for or my family member I want to be able to say congratulations thank you like those words go a long way and unfortunately we that type of acknowledgement or

[11:21]  celebration has been swept under the rug so much because we've been focusing on the challenges not focusing on opportunities and I I think we just cut a little bit different like life is not set up about challenges it's about opportunities that come with challenges question is how do you get P past it the only way you can do it is with Community it's not by yourself because even when you get there by yourself you're still what lonely yep and then today I was listening to a podcast one time and this guy was talking to a very successful CEO who has a little bit of a different preference when it comes to building teams he said you know I've Been Told a lot that you shouldn't first of all hire friends you first of all should go alone you first of all should surround yourself with people from who didn't come around your neighborhood because they're going to help elevate

[12:08]  your life but this person said something differently he said you know I think the purpose of life is finding out who you want to live life with and live life to the fullest with them that means building companies that means going after things you're passionate about it means building up your community in XYZ why do you think that we've lost so much of the ladder in society especially from the youth perspective thinks we need to do everything alone today why do you think that's so prevalent because I I think sometimes we're actually only uplifting the alone sentiments right and you're seeing this one and we're using them as unicorns like it's oh my goodness they did it and I did it by myself no you didn't no you didn't you know there's this this idea that through adversity you think you've actually done it by yourself but actually through adversity there were individuals that were supporting you on the side that you

[12:55]  didn't even know and we don't get the chance to acknowledge because we're so tainted in the the pain and the the the trauma that comes with having to feel like you're alone versus this idea of like oh my god there are actually people that have been rooting for me either publicly or silently rooting for you to win and I think sometimes we forget about the silent voices and we need to actually start becoming a little bit more vocal for that very reason because people are feeling like they're alone and they're not who are some of the silent voices who are encouraging you as you you kind of took a different path and then started doing so much to impact and uplift your community that is a great question um from family members the ones that stopped talking to

[13:43]  me uh just because we had our own like trauma that was growing up so I I found strength in that right it's like there's a reason why we could not connect because there were outside forces that stopped us when I think about our school systems the silent supporters are the individuals that were in the hallway that said good morning whether it was the janitor whether it was the secretary in the school building that made me smile because they don't know you know what it took for me to get up in the morning and walk into that school building whether it was somebody you know that gave me a ride when someone in my family you know we had a a traumatic experience in this in high school and I couldn't afford to get back home but they gave me a ride to the train station so I can spend $15 to be able to get

[14:30]  back home that was a silent support and they didn't have to do it but they saw something and so I think about these instances and I got names behind them of like wow you know just because they gave Grace to me they didn't have to you know but it makes me smile today like oh those are the same people that never stood in the front and was like yes yes Gary they were quietly like yes yes and I'm help you the best way I can do you believe in fate I do I do I think I'm not the biggest religious person at all I believe in faith like there's something better than greater than all of us and you have to have faith that things will land the way it's supposed to because I believe in positive intent you know and as much as you like if you play your cards it will come back the

[15:18]  way it's supposed to and I you just have to be faithful around it I I stop believing in this idea that an institution needs to tell me and give me direction on where to go like the the religious institution I had to believe that we're all here for a bigger purpose and just have faith in the way that you know we're supposed to interact with each other it's been a a big process in my maturation is just believing that things are going to take care of themselves you know we have so many one of the perspectives that I've been able to gain since I've gotten a little bit older is those silent supporters that you talk about they all have a way in kind of building into the momentum of life right we have people who will give us rides people stand up and cheer for us when nobody else does people Pat us on the back and those are all things that continue to build into the momentum of

[16:05]  us accomplishing our goals which I think is really really powerful you said that you have a positive outlook have you ever been looked at negatively for having a positive outlook especially in the world that we live in today that seems like it's so cynical from a professional personal level it all depends right um yeah because say uh I would say friends and family like can you just make a choice you know and I'm like actually sometimes like things are just going to be okay I really just do believe in my heart things will be okay um and some people don't believe that because some people actually like it's it's a trigger for them where they're only focused on that that raw emotion of pain and there's nothing wrong with it it's just that

[16:52]  we're just wired differently um and I'm wired to uh to as much as I can have positive outlook um where it's like the the glass is actually half full where others like the glass is half empty um and so it's been it's been uh times where it's been some challenging conversations and or individuals like you know what you know I don't know if you know I can really have you in my circle I was about to use some other language but have you in my circle just because you're little too happy for me and I'm like what's wrong with being happy you know I come from the exact same pardon I come from the exact same space because you know part of my own journey is everything has not always been in my control but I've been able to control my mindset and my Outlook on how I come

[17:39]  across opportunities not challenges and I've caught a lot of flak in my life because I've been toxically positive yeah but yet my natural reaction to those people is have we gotten to a place in society where being optimistic and being positive for a future outcome is looked at as being toxic so I've had to reframe that into being practical optimist ISM I'm practical about my current situation but I'm still going to choose to look at this through an optimistic lens practical optimism what do you kind of think about that framework P perfectly aligned I'm so happy you even use that like the pr the Practical optimism a piece because that's actually if why I gravitated towards perer forward like we believe in positive peer influence you hit it on the nose like we always think about the toxicity that happens in our communi and we and how we influence each other off

[18:25]  the negative pieces but did we ever take a moment to sit back and said if I said hello good morning you're beautiful like how that type of mindset shifts individuals to think differently but if I said you're bad you're ugly you ain't nothing you're never going to be nothing that sits with you the same way that that can sit with you is the same way you're beautiful you're kind you're sweet I believe in you can sit with you it may take a little bit longer but it it can have the same type of outcome and I think sometimes we we drive ourselves to towards the negative side of it and I just believe and be clear like I'm not the most perky happiest person every day at all there's days that I say why like why am I doing this work I again when we started this conversation about reflection I reflect on why because

[19:13]  there are days that I don't feel as happy I don't feel as perky I don't feel as optimistic but I'd just acknowledge that that's my feeling and I get back to how do I get to a place that brings me joy and that's an opportunity what kind of conversations do you have with yourself when you're not the most positive not the most optimistic not the most perky but you realize you still have to show up for your team and show it for the people who look up to you as that guy who's still going to be able to cast the vision of optimism and everything else that comes along with that uh to be authentic and truthful I think that is where even as a leader in this community making it seem as if everything is all right is by far the the number one uh the worst thing you can do in my

[20:00]  personal opinion because everything is not all right can it be better yes so just acknowledging the conversations I say is just acknowledge where you are today so even you know when the election came I had to literally tell my staff members like I need a day to be okay with where what I'm feeling and just giving people that space to be there to reflect that showed for me like individuals like oh my goodness like thank you you see me and it doesn't show we in your in your leadership abilities it actually shows strength in the fact that you you're in tune with people's emotions and even with your own emotions so that's the conversation I have and when I have to do that I just need to go and check out like literally don't talk to anybody and watch the most random thing on

[20:47]  TV just so that you know I can give this mind some rest because it's always running and so that's my way of dealing with challenging emotional things where I don't feel okay that sense of self-awareness is an amazing skill set but I feel like especially with the world that so many of our youth live in today of social media and constantly being bombarded by different images it's not okay to not be okay a lot of the time we always have that mask of everything's fine I'm doing great I'm winning but often that's not true at all it's it's not I mean that's the challenge that we're seeing particularly with our young folks that are that have social media at their finger all the time you feel the need to have to be on you feel the need to have to always show

[21:35]  up in a different way um and for us it's I think you know again I'm from a different generation where we learn to just know how to go sit in a corner and be quiet but I'm also guilty of sitting on my phone all day right and so how it's a muscle that we have to constantly exercise of being able to go back to a corner to find like what refills your cup and how you think we're going to be able to influence this next Generation to kind of lean back into I'll call it the older ways of sitting in the corner because it's so difficult to maintain and cultivate a positive mindset when everything that you see on social media is outside of your control you see so many images from the algorithms and everything that are being force-fed to you that it obviously taints the way in which you look at the world which is really tough for the younger generation because they didn't see the Before Time

[22:22]  like where we came from you know and I think that what are the elements of the before time that we can bring here cuz they don't need to see it same with our predecessors we didn't have to see it but there were certain qualities that you can bring to the presence and and make it relevant to them and I think that's where we as older individuals have an opportunity to be able to do that so what made sense to us that they would be able to to connect to and that's like who are you as an individual you know how do you find time to fill your own cup and what does that mean um ver and I think this is where we go wrong versus going going turn off your TV that's not the answer or turn get off your phone that's not the answer question is like what what refills you and if this is going to be the device well how do you use this device to

[23:09]  refill you because of the sensory overload that's happening so I think we're you know technology wise we're in an interesting space if you will that generationally we're trying to figure out how to get people off of it but I'm like how do you get them and embrace it in a much more positive way or intentional way to be able to help refill individuals you know in the in the environment that they're in I mean how do you think we're supposed to be able to do that though with the habits let's just kind of talk about what normally somebody does today the first thing they do when they wake up is they reach for their phone they check what time the alarm's going off and then they open up to social media and they're being fed images about maybe how they're not good enough images of comparison people who are doing better than them so how do we kind of instill in this younger generation the ability to compartmentalize what is social and what is real so we can actually give

[23:57]  ourselves that space really interested in your perspective you know I that is a very hard question that I think we're all trying to solve for um but I do believe that there's there's power in the just ability to put it down and and look up let me just say that like actually just look up and what's around you um and the truth a lot of times is Lally just right around us and sometimes we're not looking up um at all because we're so confined and so that is it seems so simplistic and it's not the biggest answer but I'm like look up and talk to somebody to the left of you and to the right of you and not about your phone but like how are you where are you from you know if you think about the the digital divide um if

[24:46]  you think about like all the social nuances that are on the phone the images that we see you'd be surprised how many people feel the same way that you do if you only had a simp Le conversation with them not by what social media actually told you about that person there's a phenomenon out there it's called alone together if you've ever been in a restaurant or something else like that where you see a whole bunch of people sitting at a table yet everybody is on their device they are alone in their own little Digital World while being together now I only use that as an example because I've been to a couple like entertainment shows recently where going into the show there's no filming allowed so what do they do they make you put your phone in a little like Kevlar bag and you lock it and then when you come out you can unlock it have your phone again it's really interesting what happens when you get in that situation

[25:33]  when nobody has their device in a stadium setting instead of sitting on our phones what do we do we start conversations with the people in front of us to the left of us and behind us and it's so interesting to think about how when this device is eliminated how the humanistic nature of connection automatically comes out and I feel like people are yearning for that more than ever but there's this interesting little hesitation when everybody's got their device on them to not start those conversations have that humanistic connection we lost it like we literally I've lost it as an adult I you know I I go to these sessions that like I'm an extrovert but I'm also an introvert like if you put me in Social settings I'm like the most awkward person unless I have some unless I have a friend sitting next to me that I can talk right but what do I do the my crutch becomes the phone and so you know we at perer Ford

[26:23]  are intentional even when we're going into our trainings during the summer during dinner we have a Bowl we say everyone put your phone in because it it forces you to to talk Andor look down and the person next to you talk to tell you look up what's your name where you from and so and I think again we've lost that um for the very reason of Technology that's become a crutch for us and when you think about how you guys are encouraging the Next Generation I kind of want to segue a little bit into the conversation of higher education right A lot of people have been rethinking what the investment into higher education means for them in their lives we've seen a lot of people who have decided to not go with college after the pandemic but it doesn't always seem like college now today is the only answer for Success how are you guys helping younger Generations navigate this big choice of either going to a

[27:11]  higher institution or going to a trade school or what kind of things are you encouraging for this next Generation oh my goodness thank you so hot topic obviously right for individuals at the end of the day we're about economic mobility and what we had to realize is that almost 30 years ago the as a a ecosystem we thought like if you just go to college and the def we have to be clear on what the definition of college was if you go to this four-year institution you're going to be great that's what we thought and what we quickly found out is that the data had not changed that just going to that for those that did go it still did not break the the cycle for low income to high income for those that went to two-year institutions you know we saw a little bit more promise and then for those that went to trade school there was still promise and so what we as an

[27:59]  organization have decided to do is ask people like what do you want to do like what is your end goal so that I can help you figure out what that pathway is and if that means that you want to have a meaningful you know career be able to take care of your family you want to live in said place I get you to understand like okay this is what you want to do and what are the different ways in order to get there if that means a foure institution got it let me show you if that means a two-year got it if that means a trade St got it what it won't mean is is going to a propriety institution that's going to rob you so that's a no for us but there are there are thoughtful ways and multiple Pathways in order to get to the end goal not just the main Highway that we as an institution or as an educational institution assumed would be the the appropriate way if you will so we

[28:48]  Embrace multiple Pathways but just ones that give you sustainability over time not just a shortterm fix on I'm now making $20 an hour when you could be in the long-term making 45 50 $70 an hour like how do you get people to think about that not just about the quick you know stick a price of a short-term solution it almost starts with thinking with the end in mind correct right and I don't think that we have a lot of organizations or people who are having that conversation with the younger generation of where do you want to end up instead of saying what college you going to go to right where are we ending and we can reverse engineer that path so we can accomplish those goals because today there are so many opportunities for people to pursue it just matters of starting with the end in mind which I

[29:36]  feel like we're never really asked no because it was the theory of like I'm just going to tell you where to go and it will all flourish that's not the case like it's the writing is on the wall you know I think about our young folks who said hey I love doing here when you're looking for a college I don't say look for here right it's it's just it's not there however you know if I say well let's figure out how you can go ahead and get your credential in hair styling but learn how to run your own business and in order to run your own business so you can and I'll always ask them do you just want to be the person that owns the chair or do you want to own all chairs in that business so you can make your money they're like oh I run all the entire piece that they will gravitate towards but being able to say all right so cool we're going to be a hair stylist and it's going to be called

[30:23]  Gary's do but I own it and I get the chance and the pathway towards that means some type of post-secondary education regardless and they're okay with that if you understand the value and a relevancy behind that versus go to college that's it so you guys are having conversations about leverage as well which I think is really important to recognize in this conversation too because you can be a hair stylist which is going to give you certain economic opportunities but if you own the entire Salon that's a completely different conversation as well and so we're helping people think bigger as well is what I'm hearing correct yeah it's like giving them the idea of understand you can be bigger and some will choose to say I literally only want to be the high hair stylist and that is okay but for those that don't understand the larger ecosystem of it because they just don't know and so how

[31:11]  do you educate them around it and then you know Define the pathway towards it and then so we're talking about projecting and thinking bigger for ourselves but often one thing that I think we really need to dive into here is the conversation about accountability personal growth and decision-making that can help us get there there's an element of responsibility that comes along with these things as well so how are we kind of thinking about having the tough conversations with this is probably not going to be an easy path for you and this is going to take time how do we kind of I would say hammer home the element of responsibility and accountability into this conversation too with people accomplishing their dreams what do you think about that critically important and I think generationally or just we're in a space where we we're just a thought process

[32:00]  around accountability and this idea that you're ow something it's different our our perspectives are different and so how do we get Young Folks to understand that they actually need to be in the driver seat of their Destiny and our our role and responsibility is to be in the car with them and and help support them from as side but you have to be able to show up you have to get behind the wheel um I'm not going to continue to drive you and then or don't expect that is my responsibility too because again like there's a certain level of Independence that we that young folks need to that they Thrive for um but they don't know how to do and the only way you can do it is by getting them to do it on their own with coaching right um and I think that's what's missing there's a certain level of coddling these days that we

[32:48]  need to get get out of you know like it's going to be okay no it's not get in the driver seat address your fears and that that is a conversation about high comp passion right because we do hear a lot I talk to a lot of leaders from higher education and things like that and they talk about mom and dad being more involved in the higher education process than ever before in previous generations we're talking about 21 22 23 year old individuals who are having Mom and Dad advocate for them so how do we kind of hammer home the element of responsibility that Mom and Dad aren't going to be able to navigate this path for you while you also need to be in the driver seat to make things happen for yourself there's an element of responsib ility in there that I feel like is in direct I would say conflict with how kind of parenting styles are today if that makes sense it is I mean there is a

[33:39]  yes I'd laugh uh because we do need to have individuals take more ownership of their own Pathways right and as parents like there is a responsib I have two little ones and I'm always going to make sure that they're taken care of um and I want to make sure that they Thrive but there has to be a sense of self- advocacy that is critical because at 35 your parents cannot call your job and ask where are you like they just cannot it's what does that mean for you as a young individual so this idea of self- advocacy has to be centered in uh the work and just knowing like who are the communities of support around you so that you um win like it's about an individual we use this concept at work about winning the game if you think about any sports analogy like your parents on the sideline there in the in

[34:28]  the bleachers it's like if the only person that can win the game is you and that means that you have to play it cuz you are the play you're literally in the middle of it you're making the shots but if your parents get in game over because you'll never want to play the game I love that analogy Mom and Dad aren't going to come down to the free throw line for you and hit that game-winning shot you got to put the routine in you got to take your shots and you got to get the win um it just seems like it's so difficult because so many I got a lot of flak being born in 1990 for being a part of like the parti ation trophy generation but the one question I always ask when people bring that in a part of like criticism is who were the ones who were buying those trophies for my generation I wasn't going to the store as a seven-year-old and saying I need a seventh and an eighth place trophy there's a responsibility of parenting that also needs to come along and kind of push

[35:14]  their children out into the world because a coddled child is never going to be able to have those conversations for themselves correct and I'm not trying to come over the top and say we shouldn't support our kids but there is a balance there that we need to kind of refocus on yeah I think it's the the penal swong where there was this idea of like go do it by yourself and then now we was like I'll help you throughout the entire way and I'm like where's the balance of I'll help you as long as it's something that you're willing to do um and how do you take uh charge and ownership of it but I will always be here and so it's again being a coach from the side not sitting on the on the field and like come on we're gonna do it together go sit down let your child get the because there's there is there's growth and their learnings in what we consider failure I mean for me I

[36:03]  don't think there's anything about failing this about learning and I think we need to inverse even just that concept because people think I failed no actually what did you learn from the fact that you did not um you know become in first place what was learning I need to try harder great so what does that look like for us right what does it mean if you did not pass your driver's test it doesn't mean that you failed there are opportuni for you to so that's the optimistic way of thinking it's taking everything as a learning Factor because when we keep thinking about feeling that's when people get in this social construct of I can't do anything that you can actually you really can the question is like so what do we do are you familiar with the growth mindset from Carol dck at the University of Stanford I'm familiar with the growth

[36:50]  yes yes I'm familiar with the growth mindset ideology versus the deficit it's like in this whole idea of like you're an asset we all have assets how do you how do you how do you live in that piece and just and just lean into your assets that's it everything else will come you have assets I mean a powerful question that I often ask myself in my team is like who are you becoming through this process because who you are today is not the fully baked version of yourself you haven't come across the experiences the challenges the adversity that are going to help you build these skill sets so you can be successful down the road but rather who are you coming through this process and I feel like maybe we've lost a little bit of that perspective of thinking that we are always growing we are always molding we are always becoming a next version of ourselves through going

[37:37]  through the experiences of failure because you never really learn unless you fail and you have that emotional bite to say oh man I never want to do that again let's think about how we can attack this problem differently the next time we come across it and that's where growth comes from correct yeah it's you and it's an interesting concept when you're thinking about in the school system allowing IND understand because it makes you relatable like everyone doesn't always for lack of a better term win and that is okay so how do you have conversations with your friends on hey actually I had a challenging time so someone can actually relate to you so when you're thinking about Community the reason why you know goes back to what we talked about earlier our communities Thrive when I have someone that I can relate to that understands that hey I'm not having the best day are you not having a best

[38:25]  day either so how do we get past to be able to get towards the an outcome and when everybody is just you know hunky dory and perky like oh my goodness everything is great no it's not because I actually feel bad today and so I need somebody else to tell me I feel bad and the question is let's say that let's state it and say well what we going to do tomorrow because I don't like this and that's that growth mindset that's that empowering that's that uplifting that's that sense of positivity that you know we need to continue to inject in this community that is so toxic in in complacency toxic in oh my God I can't I can't I can't um and they don't see the the beauty that the world actually has to offer and just acknowledging that it's not cute today it's

[39:13]  not and that's okay and that's okay like it's not it hasn't been forever but I do have an nor star of like it it's I have the chance to be a part of something greater so that I can leave it for my little ones you know just a a smaller one inch better than where it was yesterday for my little ones I've done my job you know there's a there's a real prevailance right now uh where we talk about with a lot of leaders who are in the education space in Youth Empowerment who were talking about the development of soft skills right when I came up through school I was a part of a generation that said if you perform well on this test everything else is going to take care of itself on the other side of your education one I think one thing that I found out very quickly was my ability to communicate my ability to empathize my ability to be compassionate

[40:01]  to be kind to have canderous conversations with people ended up being the skill sets that helped me succeed when it came to my professional and my personal life why do you think we are having such an emphasis on the soft skills now rather than just the academic hand-to-hand combat that comes along with our educational experience because academics at the college experience everything that you learn in that Institution 75% of what you learned is what's more applicable um to the workforce versus the books like the book that I read in many classes it wasn't about the actual book it's about the way that I internalize it and how was I able to engage with other folks when we may have a difference of opinion when we may not understand like those type of in the human interactions the book is nothing

[40:50]  more than a tool now let's be very clear unless you're a doctor some technical things like I need you to pay attention to the book like be very clear but it's it's it's a mechanism for us to understand like the only way that you can have a productive environment around power skills the ability to have empathy the ability to work together I don't care how smart you are you could be the smartest person in the entire world if you can't work with individuals if you can't uh problem solve if you can't um have this whole emotional intelligence on how people are showing up then you can't get the greatest outcomes well you get some outcomes sure not a problem you're smart I'll give you that but you can have even better you acknowledge that the soft skills that that's what helps individuals Thrive it's not about the fact that I can show you a resume or

[41:38]  I can show you a degree that says I have a 4. you know o GPA that's great and but what does that mean when I need to you know when we're in tragedy as an organization how do you show up for people that have a human heart around them so how do you do the heart work versus the hard work I want to delineate the two like there's the hard work that's where your skill sets come in and we need that but the hard work is not something that you're trained in that comes with just the the human nature of being around individuals which is critical when did you have that realization in your personal career it wasn't until great question 2006 I'm going to put a pin in it 2006 where I did a great job

[42:27]  graduating went tried PR I said no then I started working for a for-profit uh test prep company where like my skill set was on I was a smart person in the room so great but it wasn't fulfilling for me right and that was the thing when I can do it and it's transactional because I'm like that's the easy part for me I can show up as a smart person but the hard work was when I couldn't get somebody to believe in themselves that is not something that you're taught but it was wasn't until you know it was No Child Left Behind 2006 I was working um in Brooklyn and it took I never forget this day it was a little fifth grader that I was helping with reading she said thank you and at the fact that like she brightened up because she could not get

[43:15]  the passage and I just took time just to help her and I hate reading just to be clear so this is not my my my subject if it came to math I'm the smart one in math but reading I was like oh God like here here we go my challenge area but I saw her light up just because I looked at her so for me that's where I was like yo just believe an individuals that's the hard work I'm um I'm talking about then I was like I need to change the trajectory of what I'm doing like something has to change because this is not fulfilling to me when you continue to do heart work that's what makes you sleep well at night even when the work gets hard because I believe I believe in humans I really do I really really do you know if you could go back in time let's call it 10 years to a younger version of Gary and you had five minutes of

[44:05]  uninterrupted time where you could Hammer home a piece of advice on how he was going to navigate from 10 years ago till right now when he sits across the table for me what piece of advice would you give to that younger version of yourself believe in your gut um and listen to what individuals are saying around you uh For Better or For Worse um because you know 10 years ago that I that I did like my head was still looking like I'm do I'm thriving I'm doing a great job of just being look up look up what's around you and I think that for me 10 years ago would have been very uplifting um because I didn't believe I would you know be where I'm at today being a CEO today 10 years ago because I was looking

[44:53]  literally at the ground of doing what I do great not looking up and willing to challenge myself to do something even better because I didn't believe that I could and so look up it's going to be what I I would have told myself I love that it's interesting when we have the perspective of time because we can really give ourselves that that truthful advice on how we're going to be able to navigate time you know and I'm always playing an exercise in my head about an 85-year-old Keenan if I were to go to him for advice on how he's navigating this time what advice would I say and the advice I would give myself is to enjoy the process more you know feel like I'm always caught up in the element of trying to get from here to there and trying to hit this next Mark and trying to get the next customer that often I don't enjoy the process but when I get to the very end the biggest regret that I'll have is that I didn't enjoy the journey because it goes by so much

[45:40]  faster than I really expected to um and I love hearing advice like you gave as well it's just so important no thank you for even mentioning that because I I would say even 10 years ago you start thinking about memorable moments and I I can clearly Define that actually don't remember because I was not looking up you know I'm so confined and but if you asked me about a project got it but I don't remember the lived experience and that's that's a challenge for me right so you don't get the chance to embrace the beauty smell the flowers as they say get up and smell the dog on flowers so Gary one of the traditions we have here on the podcast is our previous guest wanted to ask you a blind question now their question was what would you do differently now that youve spent time in your business from how you thought you would do things when you first got

[46:26]  started be much more uh quick on Decisions by leveraging my the expertise that's around me I think that's it's I found that you know I kept you would deliberate just a little bit too long it's like just call it and that goes back to trusting your gut because the answer is literally sitting right next to you or around you well Gary lynen I just want to say am man you are easily the definition of heart and hustle and I just want to say thank you for having such an amazing heart for impacting the Next Generation but also being somebody who demonstrate the hustle of what it takes to be able to impact the Next Generation in ways that we need for a future in our better Society man I can't thank you enough for

[47:14]  coming on the show I really appreciate it no thank you so so much I definitely appreciate that and same to you like it just accolades to just your way of being able to think construct things I I just I felt deeply appreciated in being on the show so thank you Keenan absolutely guys well that's another episode of heart and hustle podcast we'll catch you in the next one once again Gary linen thanks man really appreciate it