How to Build Inclusive Teams with Neurodiverse Talent

[0:01]  the term neurodiversity or neurod Divergent means my brain works different not less I have the intellect that you do maybe greater maybe less but not lower intellect in general and if I uh struggle with responding it's because it's a processing my computer processor is a little bit different a little slower than yours the intellect I'll get the right answer if I take a test I might need a a little longer time to do it but I could get a good score as you that is a uh that change of scope that change of bucket if you will that how we present the framework that we're talking about that in is welcoming and it allows people to identify a certain way and what I what we're seeing happen across across the country and the world is you go to LinkedIn people are referencing

[0:48]  themselves as neurodiverse or neurod Divergent um it is becoming something that is a um to some people it is a it is a sense of Pride I'm not like the rest of the Lemmings out there just kind of going about and doing the same thing and not I'm not you know going against the grain that's who I am and there's a word now that means it right it's ADHD dyslexia um a variety of other things depending on which site you go to they will go to PTSD brain injury mental health like I just navigate social situations differently physical situations I like my my car and my house or how I dress just this way because it's different and it makes me feel good and it doesn't mean that I'm less than because I don't want to wear suit or it does less than because you know I can't navigate this I can't just like sit around the water cooler and talk about

[1:35]  college football for an hour cuz it makes me uncomfortable and sweaty and I don't know what to do I don't know how to stand I don't what to do with my hands like it just does it's uncomfortable but I'm going to go back to my desk and knock out this job responsibility that's actually on my job description um and I'm going to be you know your star student or your star employee so the what we have seen even in my six years This this term is coming out and it's saying I'm different and not less which is such a better term the term disabled means is it's an abilistic term and ableism is saying the way everybody the primary group works is the right way and anybody that is less than or different than the right way is the wrong way and so we're going to say it's okay you're not like us and they're saying yeah I don't want to be like you it's okay that I'm like me and I'm equal we're equals here I'm just doing things

[2:23]  different all right guys welcome back to a brand new episode of the heart and hustle podcast now I am sitting across from another amazing leader now if you know anything about the heart and hustle podcast we talk about the intersection between heart and hustle and I love sitting across from CEOs leaders and Founders exactly like my guest here today I've got Justin dockerty with me Justin welcome to the show man thank you very much K great to be here absolutely man so you are the CEO of autism Action Partnership now to level set for the audience one of the things that you and

[3:10]  I kind of kicked it off in our previous episode about was the rising prevailance of diagnosis that we've been seeing over the recent years in this space specifically now back when I first started working in this space it was one in 56 children were diagnosed with autism as of this year the recent data 136 children diagnosed with autism how are you thinking about this prevalance if you will of increased diagnosis and how is it impacting your ability to serve the community yeah so uh I'll preface my response with I'm not a researcher um and so uh this is this is this is information that's been sent to us and shared with us it's kind of shared throughout the the community if you will um and so the the two primary thoughts are one um that uh autism has been misdiagnosed underdiagnosed for

[3:57]  years and years and years and now there is a better understanding you can uh go online ask a few questions about yourself or your loved one um and if you answer yes to one of them then they say talk to your doctor they talk to your doctor and they ask you another assessment so there's tools that now can go from you know I have this thought to I actually can take action on that thought and that thought gets to Specialists those Specialists have training there's actual tools people are coming out of med school with training specific towards this so now there is a system that people can plug in into 10 years ago 20 years ago depending on what part of the country or the world you're in um there was behavior disorders and other other diagnoses that were applied to individuals uh with autism spectrum disorder based on the um

[4:45]  the limitations or the the the understanding of the of the of the medical professionals at that time so now there's an it it's fully defined there tools to Define if you check these boxes that is now Autism Spectrum Disorder so that is one half of the reason why the the numbers are increasing the way they are the other honestly is that there is a belief through great brains and scientists uh that there is it is happening more often they just don't the the prevalence is not uh because it's just happening more because that number so somewhere in there is better diagnosis better understanding and also likely occurring more often than than uh you used to man it it creates so many challenges right when it comes to being able to meet the community because we've got more awareness equals more Outreach equals

[5:33]  more demand for services meaning that you being a leader of your organization has to be incredibly curious about kind of how you're going to be able to formulate and grow this organization to meet the demand in the community I want to I want to take a step back really quick and kind of talk about where we came from so the CEO sits across from this uh from the table with me today but how did we kind of find ourselves on this path Justin yeah so um I was uh out of college I have a bachelor's degree in social work uh so I kind of I tell people this um kind of I just fight for the underdog um so when I was trying to figure out what I want to do the rest of my life I had no idea um and so uh in the in in college I I decided I would just at least apply my my time and energy and efforts towards trying to help others um and see kind of where that where that took me I wasn't sure if it was going to be a couple years or a

[6:20]  lifetime and so far I'm 25 years in in the in the Human Services field so uh Frontline case manager um I work my way into uh kind of program management levels went and got a master's degree in public administration because I started to realize these you know there's some bigger cogs that play here I'm I'm Downstream I want to work my way Upstream have a have a louder voice and more opportunity to make some decisions and how programs operate how they react and see kind of see if we do this that happens and that's not exactly what we want to happen but if we make these changes you have to have a a c sometimes you have to have letters behind your name to get someone to respect the fact that you have that thought and that your opinion matter and so um basically kind of from Frontline case manager up to more macro and more macro um I spent some time unit away which was fantastic

[7:09]  um being able to kind of see the entire landscape of the community and see where where how programs interact how they decide kind of um areas of focus where they decide not to play which lane to be in how they how they identify themselves and the needs and where they fit all of those things got me to this role six years ago just over six years now but um each of those steps each of those pieces got to a place it's like not only do you want to just do good in the world of Social Work and Human Services a lot of people still to this day just kind of think it's like oh it's good you're you're doing good things it must feel so good it's like there's science and research behind how we do things there's deliverables there's accountability there's you know uh sustainability this is this is a small business operation that we are operating um yes there's a philanthropic arm and there is a a human

[7:57]  good a Human Service being delivered but it's a very very it's it's a small business in every sense of the word if we were to take go back to 10-year-old juston what were some of his passions what was the path that you projected yourself to be on when you were kind of sitting in this in this seat today let's see um I was going to be playing probably for the United States uh Men's National Team World Cup um or center field for the New York Mets um let's see 10 um I would say I was a huge Star Wars was still him a huge Star Wars fan which I honestly think somewhere plays into that idea of like a little guy against the against the big systems um my the word on the street from my folks and my loved ones is I've always been a compassionate human I've always like found the the kid who is into getting

[8:45]  along with others who's been excluded and trying to bring them in so I think some of this is inherent um in who I've always been um I would much prefer like a real sincere um commitment communication relationship with a human than 10 buddies who don't really know what's going on in my world and I think that have a a small but very very tight-knit group of of loved ones and supporters to this day um and a lot of those things are are were seen um back in the back in the 10-year-old version of me I love that it's something something that's really special about the uh the small circle right and this is something that I worry about from like a macro perspective so many people feel like we need to have the equivalent amount of followers as we do friends and trusted

[9:33]  people in our Circle why do you think it's important I want to kind of Riff on this because we don't often talk about this in the podcast why do you think it's so important to have that small trusted circle of people around you oh there's so many so many reasons why accountability one um uh and authenticity and sincerity um I can talk to a thousand people I can host big events I can have connections with individuals on a variety of areas but I don't show the True full version uh of me you know if I'm in a role I play that role well I do what I need to do and so I think a lot of us are playing that role depending on who's watching and there needs to be a place where you feel comfortable being all of you um and you have to have a a group of people that will check you when

[10:19]  you need to be checked or welcome you in your in your moments when you're not great or when you need support um I think that's just the Human Experience I think so many folks FKS I think get on a soap boox here where we're all posturing in a way where we're winning everyone wants to win um or there's like these tremendous losing which is also some of some sort of kind of self-promotion but just like the boring everyday life boring quote unquote of just kind of grinding and trying to get by and raise families and and make a difference and all those kind of things isn't sexy isn't isn't like promoting um but that's really I think where like true life is lived and so I really lean back towards that I'd rather have a small group of people that I can call at 2: in the morning if I need help I can I'll be out their weddings I'll be there when

[11:06]  they're celebrating I'll be there when they're morning um and uh we kind of share this life experience with them there's a a phrase that's been in the front of my mind recently it's you can do anything but you can't do everything and when I think about cultivating healthy relationships in our lives we can't put energy into so many people and while you were talking there I was starting to get really inspired on thinking about the highest level of compassion right highest level of compassion is being willing to have kind and canderous conversations with people who we love that accountability that authenticity is something that I feel like is so powerful why is it easy for you to gravitate towards those I would say character traits over all the other kind of stuff that we've been talking about that's a great question my my inclination is that um it it really it

[11:56]  feels like my people um I can navigate these it just there's a there's a there's a value there there's a there's a cup filling that happens I think in some of those um inch deep mile wide kind of uh relationships there's just not a lot of cup filling it's really like exhausting right you're kind of managing people's expectations and managing do they did I win that moment right and you're kind of it's very draining there's there's a cup filling that happens when you've got someone who you can just be like can I just just be real can I can I just put everything aside and just tell you exactly like I'm I'm scared of this thing or like I'm totally faking it and I'm hoping this whole thing plays out you know those really moments that you kind of hide from everybody especially in a leadership role talk about nonprofit

[12:43]  leadership in a sense of of it's kind of lonely because you have to present as much as you can obviously you want to be respectful and sincere and honest but you're not going to be like hey it's like you're selling a house right like hey look at this you know water damage in the corner that we painted over last week you're saying look at this wonderful neighborhood and look at the brand new windows right you kind of shine the light on the stuff that you want everyone to pay attention to but the other stuff needs to get taken care of in order to have you know to be a um know a good house I'll continue with the metaphor right so the whole thing needs to be there and so I really find I think that the kind of the giving the receipt of the giving of of true authenticity is is kind of I think what draws me most to it nonprofit CEO burnout is a huge problem that a lot of people are not talking about when it

[13:30]  comes to filling your cup I've been really thinking about the idea and I've talked about this a couple times on the podcast is energy adders versus energy drainers right we've got so many things that we can do in our lives that are energy adders which give us the Fulfillment they fill our cup like exactly like what you said and they've got the energy drainers when it comes to you as a leader a CEO as somebody who is constantly encouraging others how do you kind of really I would say establish those boundaries for filling your own cup so you can show up as you know the best leader for your team every day yeah um the first thing that that that comes to mind is though I I have a bachelor's degree in social work I have I'm a trained social worker and part of that training was self-care and and you know understanding what burnout Is Knowing

[14:17]  Your Role uh empathy versus sympathy I mean there so it's um again back to some of my earlier statements about this is a this is an art and a science that what we're doing here this is not just like it feels good to help people kind of I'm just going to go do it because we have a lot of people that enter that field and they're exhausted because the needs always outweigh the the resources that's why our organizations like ours exist um so there's that I think a fundamentally um kind of component of of of um uh my Foundation is built to protect myself because I have to be there I mean parents do this all the time friends do this I mean people do in different roles all the time is what was it when the when the um oxygen masks come down from the plane right parent put yours on first then your child you have to take care of Self in order to be able to be

[15:05]  good for anybody so that's ingrained in me from the beginnings of my my social work and Human Services career um outside of that it is fully transparent it's an ongoing battle it is it is it is hard to for me to say I don't have time for that um and so what I do in in is I try to tell my team this is what I'm I'm struggling with or struggling to format or this is where I'm trying to do things you might be seeing a difference coming up in the next meeting the next time this happens so I try to be reflective with the team especially like my immediate leadership team so here's what I'm struggling with I'm supposed to be thinking six months down the road and I'm stuck in like email inbox and things that have to get done today and operation things so I'm going to start moving my way further away and I'm going to be giving you guys

[15:52]  you know giving I'm going to be sharing more the leadership the responsibility decision decision- making you want to run it by me and give my blessing I'll do that but I can't get I'm not going to send the hour meeting figuring out what the thing is I'm going to I'm handing it off to you have my trust and respect but this is intentional it's not like whoa this guy's ignoring these these are very important meetings why isn't he here right so I have to be sure and be clear and transparent that this is an intentional step for me because I need for my value and my time and energy I need to I also have an executive coach I have wonderful board members who are in positions where they are also are being pulled and demanded into different ways and I think from a personal side you know I maybe that's probably where I struggle most in is that transition from from CEO to husband father friend um and

[16:41]  making sure that I'm trying to come home clean you know taking some cleansing breaths in the car when I pull up and those kind of moments we actually like trying to with mindfulness is I'll practice mindfulness because I can never quite hold on to it I think I got to figure it out and I wake up a month later and I'm like wait I totally lost control of the wheel at some point uh so um those are all the kind of pieces so that really just trying to be mindful and and in all areas of my life a little bit more transparent as to like I a flawed human I am not perfect and even if I want to present as like everything's good majority of it is and you know overall we're passing grades and everything's going good but there are still some pieces that aren't right and some pieces that I lack and I need I need support I need people to call me out on and so those kind of somewh in there is that um my focus and time so I can talk

[17:30]  to you about it right now I'm fully locked in right and I go back and I got emails flying I got this so some of this is like that accountability like you tell people you're going to quit smoking cigarettes I'm quitting smoking tomorrow right so the next time you see them they're like you still not smoking right so I try to tell people some of that kind of behind the scenes behind the curtain stuff to hopefully help them help me be accountable to what the things I really truly want to operate in make sure they Happ what you're talking about right now is a perfect intersection of leadership 101 you know I feel like a lot of leaders today who tune in and watch the podcast often are struggling with that trust element that you talked about in letting their team pick up all of the areas where we cannot be great and when you're talking about being a CEO you're saying I'm six months down the road focusing on these things I

[18:17]  need to be able to lean in and trust my team to be able to figure things out and that's another highest form of compassion right letting you fail letting you learn the mistakes so I oneon-one can coach you up as the leader have you always been so prolific at understanding that concept or is this something that you kind of had to lean into as you've gotten older because leadership is not often taught we're often put in positions right and we have to figure it out as we kind of go through the road yeah uh easy hard no I have not always been this way this is a learned behavior that I'm still trying to again keep as the lead the lead um behavior that I have so I've gone through a number of leadership trainings um I try to I try to fail forward right if I'm going to eat it I will hopefully to learn a lesson and try to remember it um I try to learn it the first time maybe the second hopefully I'm not

[19:04]  making repeat repeat offense uh for those mistakes um but it's in any line of work you do well you get promoted right and so the things you do well all speak specifically to me I ran programs I managed and led teams but there was there was daily deliverables monthly deliverables quarterly deliverables right so it was I'm not laying the track I would talked to people about like other people built the sandbox I figured out how to play in it I figured out how to maximize the sandbox transitioning into a place where I build sandbox is was I probably took me years to fully understand all of the components of of of um Independence and uh that I had and also Reliance of

[19:52]  others on these decisions um understanding that there are people who are going to say you're in that chair so you probably know better than I uh even if it's not true and so I to have to really build in my staff hears me all the time say I'm just thinking out loud as a as my like this could be clunky and I want you to be able to to tell me this is a terrible idea so they've heard me say that preface before I had a a wonderful um leader before me or my kind of a mentor of mine had said your voice holds more weight in the room than you recognize and you have to take some of that weight out if you truly want to have a strategic planning conversation if it's brainstorming speak loud I'm sorry Speak last don't speak too loud and also if you're going to speak if you

[20:39]  think it's if you're just spitballing you're that holds a lot of weight because you're the guy in the room that they want to make happy whether they own it or not um and I understood that going in I can say it but experiencing it in the moment you're like okay that probably was a good idea and then you know you're like well wait a second are they just like this guy knows knows more he's running the organization so I'm just going to defer to him because if I say no we go this direction and we fail they're going to be looking at me right so it's a little safer I think to say whatever the leader says we're going to follow um and so I I certainly have fallen victim to that myself in rooms where I'm like yeah sure good idea buddy and then you go out in the parking lot you're like that's not gonna work I don't want that organization people feeling that they can't look at me and be like yeah you're missing there and I think I've cultivated it well I at least

[21:26]  one or two people that report to me we have been doing the dance for long enough where they're like yeah no no no no this is this is the thing this is the obvious thing you've obviously missed and I'm gonna tell you and I'm like oh thank God you're here thank you um but that's been cultivation intentional cultivation and it was not just inherent it's tough I was diving into a leadership seminar um and the example in this conversation was the culture of Amazon specifically when it comes to Innovation and there was a keynote speak that Jeff B get gave where he was talking about their willingness to experiment means they have the opportunity to churn over all the rocks and all the leaves if you will to find where the good ideas are but 90% of those ideas fail and one of the things that he talked about in this conference

[22:13]  was the idea and the difference between making decisions deciding to make a decision and deciding to take an experiment and he said if we can get our teams to focus on being willing to try and experiment we can find results results that often are not hidden behind the stigma of having to make a decision and go in a specific direction does that make sense absolutely absolutely so I I started smiling a little bit so we call it a pilot and and the ongoing joke if you will around the office of like we're going to Pilot call it a pilot we're going to Pilot this idea pilot it we're going to put the water with the boat in the water and see where it leaks not if it leaks I got a bunch of sayings that I'll line up with that um is that the idea we just we just had a 2-year program that was wonderfully successful and change the lives of a of a small

[23:01]  group of people forever young adults transitioning from their parents' homes to independent living and I could tell you stories that'll make your eyes water I mean it was just such a wonderful program so expensive and we had to Sunset it and when I was like struggling with this one of my board members said you told everybody three years ago you were going to Pilot this idea piloting means you're going to do this you're going to learn as you go and you're going to make better decisions as a result unfortunately your result is it's too expensive and everybody who hears that from you is going to say well it was a pilot so you set set it up that way the other thing about the basil thing I in theory I believe and practice uh in the nonprofit sector piloting things is dangerous right because you have if you're going to go back and

[23:47]  raise money the next year like here's what we did with your money last year would you want to support us again if we go back and say yeah we took a risk or a gamble that didn't pay off but this time it's going to pay off right so there's a there's a sweet spot also in the nonprofit sector where you don't necessarily have research and development and its human lives and so there's there's some different types of uh risk involved in that um I think the the spirit of it absolutely 100% in the nonprofit sector human lives and also depending on where your Revenue stream comes from you can't be so Cavalier there's a fundamentals of being a great leader is casting a vision so big that other people who are supporting you and trying

[24:34]  to be a part of your team can find their success in your vision right and I think about that on twofold not only are you the CEO supposed to inspire the people who are coming into the organization but we're also supposed to inspire people like board members to be able to understand where we want to be able to take this I want to give this or use this as an opportunity when I first met the now current CEO and president of an organization here in Las Vegas called the grant to gift Autism Center it was 2017 2018 he came into the organization as a manager and when he sat across the table from me I asked him Brian what do you want to accomplish here and he said as the manager not the executive director my goal is to one day turn this Center into the premier location for access to diagnosis services but also

[25:22]  training and education and I thought man that's pretty impressive that he as a manager was able to cast a vis ision so large right and over the years we've had change in leadership and everything like that and my Guy Brian has Rose from being you know executive director to CEO to president and now president and CEO of the entire foundation and he's still executing on that Vision but I'll always remember his willingness to double down and preach his vision for what the organization was going to be how do you think we can reinforce leaders like yourself and like Brian to double down on casting that Vision so large while we also do have that element of being Cavalier like you talked about because it's a really tough balance right right um with all due respect I think the the casting of the vision is safe and easy

[26:12]  it's immediately it's the I I I talk about this at work too it's the steak and the sizzle right so I you can Sizzle all day but there's got to be some steak right and so the the component of it is um it's got to be somewhere tangible right it's got we can't just be like we're going to be the greatest in the world you're like with what budget with whom people like you know here's all the reasons that's not going to happen because then immedately shut down right so it has to be realistic on the edge of realism right but still both tied there and there has to be a couple components to it which sounds like uh Brian absolutely had some of those those critical pieces it wasn't like uh you know they were going to go in reinvent you know like cold fusion right or invent cold fusion it was like this is in your wheelhouse this sounds like right depending on the landscape in those pieces so um I immediately go to

[27:00]  the vision has to be bold and big and inspiring and also tangible not completely out there but there has to be a couple good chunks of meat in there where you're like and this is the pathway right we don't know exactly know what it is but we're at a and that's B getting there could be two years could be five um and all the ingredients might be still to come but we know at least this much to get us here and at that point we can reassess and continue on the journey so I think in in my lived experience as well as in in our community I think there's been some uh people that are a little like the the string on the kite's a little too long and you're like I don't know where you're coming from out there like that's big and bold but there's no meat um and so we really try to there has to be that piece and it sound if Brian's coming

[27:47]  from programs selfishly speaking because I came from I came from the ground up you know it's uh you got people who know the ingredients and know enough of the landscape to say this is big and bold but not you know so so out there that it's not tangible or just feels like it's a f Sizzle this comes back to your element of accountability right and the prevailance to take action because we can paint ideas all day but unless we're willing to back it up with the action that's necessary to get these things done there's no real point right absolutely so here's a question for you when we think about building a team to be able to meet the need in our community in our previous conversation we talked a little bit about you know how competitive it really is to be able to get people to buy into this Mission when you think about all the

[28:35]  other competitors that are out there trying to Garner the attention of team members coming into your organization Instagram Tik Tok all the other opportunities remote work all that kind of stuff how do you kind of set the Level Playing Field of saying this is what you're going to do here this is the bigger vision of what I'm casting this is how we're going to execute on it and then how do we keep people engaged to be a part of you know combating such a big problem in our communities what you guys are doing so um learning from failure uh learning from doing it wrong for years um the the strategy that we employ now is um is to be as authentic and true and sincere as possible about what the work is and um I I typically am involved at some if I'm hiring a person I'm fully involved but there somebody else who's going to join the team I typically meet with every single person we have a team

[29:22]  of uh 12 full-time staff right now so not not a big big operation and and a few part-timers um but I I try to meet them at least once in the hiring process before the job offer is made and and the general piece of my my words are here is what your day-to-day looks like I want you to be interviewing us as as much as we're interviewing you you got to be honestly a little crazy to work here and a little crazy to be able to like navigate the worlds and the times and the things that we do um and it has to be the right kind of crazy because we' had the wrong kind of crazy it doesn't work out and we have other people who are like I want it black and white we're like it's black black and white till the family walks in when they walk in we go with it where they need us and we we answer and so um that flexibility exists but not so flexible where it's not structured and so we try to I have recruited people I have brought people

[30:11]  on board I have wowed them I have been like this is fantastic and they've left within 90 days or six months because they're like this isn't really what I expected but I really wanted them because they were such an amazing talented human they're going to come in here and do such wonderful things in organization but the fit has to be right and we have to own who we are and what we are um uh so that that's one one angle to this the other one is that um I'm a big believer in in like taking our work seriously but not ourselves seriously and so I really kind of lead with that myself I will I will say embarrassing dumb things and own it in the moment um the the work that people here like we have a Sign by our our back door to our staff parking lot that says go home to your loved ones um I often tell our staff like if we win the lottery

[30:57]  tomorrow like are we coming to work really I mean coming to work so um we can still do wonderful things and change lives and still in this world but are we going to come like you know do an eight to5 if we don't have to worry about that so let's remember all these things we have families that we're working for we have the goals we're trying to achieve and so being honest about that and also authentic about like when the cameras on and the families are here like we take this stuff seriously these are people's lives that we we there's a there's a level that we have to operate when no one's looking and we just want to kind of be our eles like you should be able to come here and just be like I feel terrible or I'm hung over or I just had a terrible weekend and I'm just going to like put my headphones on and not talk to anybody just do work today they're like all right this is not going to be the regular day for you and we'll see you tomorrow like no no judgment here so um if you do that and the family is like who what's going on here like then then

[31:46]  we got issues um the last piece I'll say here is that um there's intent and impact talk about this is a leadership tool that you may have may come across so if you're if your intent is positive and your impact is negative we can work on that all day staff everybody here right if your intent is negative we got problems so we try to whatever the the action is there's an intent and an impact right if I send an email if I make a phone call if I say words whatever I do if the intent of every person under this under this roof is positive the impact if it isn't always there it's a learning opportunity for growth opportunity it's better management it's it's you know with those kind of components if your intent is not

[32:34]  then this isn't a place for you and I've I've said that to individuals I've that kind of people know that's how I roll like we all come in here to do right and if no one's looking we're doing right and if you're not doing right whether there's an audience or no one's looking this isn't where we I don't care how good you are at your job this is not that's not how that's not what we value here I mean it's just um I just love the I keep love loving the opportunity to come back and look at all of these different opportunities as accountability elements and I really like how you kind of inter weave that intentionally into the conversation at the beginning because all of this is based on accountability I can really tell that that's something that you guys continue to lean on with that authenticity as well I uh think that we have an opportunity to talk about um over the years we've seen definitions

[33:22]  and language changing in society right one of the things that we talked about in our previous conversation was diversity and the difference of different not meaning less why don't we kind of Riff on that for a little bit yeah I'm I'm pretty excited about this um I think sociologists need to need to look at this and maybe they are but um so autism spectrum disorder is a disability there are a bunch of disabilities people are like okay that person has a disability okay we understand that we're welcoming them and we understand what that means and you're not you're less than it's okay and we're going to you know lower our expectations the term neurodiversity or neuro dient means my brain works different not less I have the intellect that you do maybe greater maybe less but not lower

[34:10]  intellect in general and if I uh struggle with responding it's because it's a processing my computer processor is a little bit different a little slower than yours the intellect I'll get the right answer if I take a test I might need a a little longer time to do it but I could get a good score as you that is um uh that change of scope that change of bucket if you will that I will present the framework that we're talking about that in is welcoming and it allows people to identify a certain way and what I what we're seeing happen across across the country in the world is you go to LinkedIn people are referencing themselves as neurodiverse or neurod Divergent um it is becoming something that is a um to some people it is a it is a sense of Pride I'm not like the rest of the lemings out there just kind

[34:57]  of going out and doing the same thing and not I'm not you know I'm going against the grain that's who I am and there's a word now that means it right it's ADHD dislexia um a variety of other things depending on which site you go to they will go to PTSD brain injury mental health like I just navigate social situations differently physical situations I like my my car and my house or how I dress just this way because it's different and it makes me feel good and it doesn't mean that I'm less than because I don't want to wear a suit or does less than because you know I can't navigate this I can't just like sit around the water cooler and talk about college football for an hour because it makes me uncomfortable and sweaty and I don't know what to do I don't know how to stand I don't what to do with my hands like it just does it's uncomfortable but I'm going to go back to my desk and knock out this job responsibility that's actually on my job

[35:45]  description um and I'm going to be you know your star student and your star employee so the what we have seen even in my six years This this term is coming out and it's saying I'm different and not less which is such a better term and the term disabled means is it's an abilistic term and ableism is saying the way everybody the primary group works is the right way and anybody that is less than or different than the right way is the wrong way and so we're going to say it's okay you're not like us and they're saying yeah I don't want to be like you it's okay that I'm like me and I'm equal we're equals here I'm just doing things different and um there's there's plenty of plenty of research on it they talk about there's a pretty famous um um story um right now about neurode Divergent bees um if you you look into

[36:36]  this like the story click this let's go yeah it's been told it's been told uh that there's a group of neurode Divergent bees are the ones that find new sources of pollen because they don't follow the rest if they only didn't have neurode Divergent bees The Hive would eventually die with the source ever died so the bees that don't just follow along with everybody are the ones that are actually finding resources um I'm I'm telling you what has been told to me by other people who are smart who have uh um published uh things like this and videos and things like that so uh asterisk and uh you know W sign the waiver here but that's my our understanding and and it's something that we share at our trainings too is that there's actually um groups of specifically in this case bees that say if not for the neurod Divergent we would

[37:23]  not be where we are today and we might not even be surviving the belief with the autism spectrum and neurodiversity there is your your Thomas Edison's your Teslas your um Einstein um there's a belief I'm not I'm not saying it's true but the belief is that they would probably likely identify as having autism spectrum disorder if they were in a they were six years old today and exhibiting similar behaviors um they would likely have an Autism diagnosis or certainly be seen as neur diversion um and so those people have changed our lives changed our world you know how many more of these inventors didn't there was a term for them being socially awkward or willing to like spend three days in a room by themselves working on an equation or um and not going to birthday parties and weddings and having healthy relationships quote unquote

[38:11]  healthy relationships with uh significant others and things like that because they're so immersed in their work that hyperfocus is what made them unique um I think um Elon Musk identifies as being neurodivergent um and these are some of the greatest Minds in in our in our history and across human history and so that term wrapping up here that term is giving people ownership and pride when they have if they're have autism diagnosis for 20 years and they have autism and they don't have to tell people and they're struggling and they don't want to be like I I'm the autism guy um are being more comfortable saying I have neurodiversity so your exchange with me might be a little bit different but don't think for a minute that I can't hold my own um and that change and that ownership and that kind of self- advocacy is is inspiring and we're

[38:58]  seeing it from people that we work with we're seeing it across the variety of sectors we're seeing it in Workforce um there are companies that are seeking neurode Divergent workers because they're like we need some other brains in this room when we're doing research and development when we're doing this and that we're trying to figure out how to make the best thing we got seven people who think the same we need an eth person who's going to challenge all that thinking to kind of actually evolve so um uh I can't say enough about it it's it's it's inspiring and and and I'm I'm I'm I feel blessed to be part of this movement if you will at the time it's happening because I really feel like it's foundational and and likely going to um kind of change hopefully the entire existence and entire kind of society and how we perceive ourselves and we perceive others who are different doesn't this sound incredibly

[39:47]  human if that makes sense we are very bad at understanding the greater perspective of things that are happening around us right and we think about neuro divergency we think about I mean the example that you just gave with the bees was mindblowing because if you were to be a bee and you were to do the same stuff over and over again then you would never explore new opportunities and go to get new pollen from new plants and why are we not looking at people who are neurode Divergent in society today as being that element of things people who are doing things differently that are bringing new opportunities to the greater Hive if you will but it seems like we're just kind of leaning into that human ignorance if that makes sense oh absolutely I mean that's spot on I mean that's we talk about that in ear I talk about it with friends I mean it's some of what is the is the cup

[40:34]  filling component of this work um that I do is that and we talked about this that the authenticity uh about who I work with and the expectation of just being true to yourself um is is um uh it's so inspiring it's so I want I'm like drawn to it like it's it's alluring to be like I just want to be around people who are just real right and they'll say things that are inappropriate but awesome and real and honest and I don't have to deal with all this stuff and so many people I believe if that birds of a feather it's safety right standing out amongst the pack is scary and it's um it's vulnerable and in a large part A lot of the folks that that we work with that come through our doors that are co-workers of ours

[41:20]  that identify as neurodivergent like they not collectively I don't want to misrepresent but there a lot of them don't care they don't they don't express they just like I don't know if this is I'm supposed to say this or not but blah blah blah we're like yeah you say that all day that's welcome here not trying to be again intent is honesty impact might land or but the intent goes honest we're we're good to go so um yeah it's uh hopefully it becomes you think of the 5-year-old the six-year-olds right now who are getting diagnosed who are like trying to figure out how to why kids W play them on the playground is because they don't do what everybody else does and so that's weird and I don't know what to do with it as a as a neurotypical person I don't know how to De with that so I'm going to go play with these kids they're by themselves well if they start to find a crew of folks who are like all of us are different we we not we our differences

[42:08]  aren't even the same but we are collectively different and you've got a A Tribe and you got a flock to roll with I mean that could be significant you think of the lgbtq community community and um others with with culture and race and ethnicity and you start to saying when you're not alone when you've got a tribe of people to say like we got you and you know and we're not judging you and we see value in everything that you say and do in the disability Community especially outside of physical disability physical disability obviously is pretty pretty um identifiable um by the general population Ada stuff is you know blind and Wheelchairs and things like that there's a pretty good tell if you have an intellectual disability um or you're neurod Divergent there isn't there isn't a tell that lets everybody

[42:56]  know so then you're stuck in this thing of like what's the right time to tell somebody I have autism and that's why this conversation goes weird or why I don't know how to navigate this kind of potluck or this team building exercise um and it stops a lot of people from succeeding and we see that in our Workforce program if you can't socialize you can be awesome at your job but you're not going to you're not you're only going to go so far because the ability to kind of communicate and make other people feel good even if it's a game and it's your salesmanship like that matters and the value I think people place on that uh isn't fully appreciated understood by those who navigate it every day they're like What's the system okay I'm going to chameleon hop right in win uh others are like I can't and if I can't do that the

[43:44]  value I have whether it's um I mean it uh engineering whatever if I can't get along with everybody because I navigate the world differently my skill set is not going to get to where it needs to go and so I think with this neurodiverse movement the neurodivergent terminology the the umbrella that's being kind of put out there the opportunity for them the opportunity for the collective the opportunity for that entire population to to like feel confident and strong and to be able to walk up to the neurotypical tribes and say like we matter and we still have this and I'm not going to change and I'm not going to be ashamed or hide maybe that is an evolution of our Humanity collect right I completely agree I was thinking I mean if you just look at if we

[44:32]  extrapolate as an example the prevailance of diagnosis from 1 and 56 to 1 and 36 to one in whatever it's going to be then this is a future element of our society and we need to start getting ready to accept people as they are and lean into their skill sets and their differences that help us be better and I think I mean like we in our previous conversation we kind of riffed on the topic of with all the prevailing of diagnosis it's very difficult to pinpoint right one thing in our society that's happening that's causing this uplift in diagnosis and neurode Divergence is it I mean you hear some people say like it's the vaccines but is it the food is it the air quality is it the societal stress is it the overexposure to devices is it the genetic triggers that we're seeing is it the Plastics that we're all int taking

[45:19]  in I mean like it's very difficult for anybody to say oh I know what the answer is when you have so many variables that are swirling in our society today right and I think we just have to be ready to recognize that mindset that you said is this the next evolution of who we are becoming right now the the vaccine thing that you you referen and everybody always references it is I go back to that first off that research study has been completely disproven that that research that had that conclusion was not done correctly and it cannot be no no water is held with that that said you can't say cheeseburgers don't cause it right cheeseburgers are people eat more cheese never before and autism is going up so it causation or correlation doesn't mean causation um I think also we talked about this a little bit is

[46:06]  that people are drawn to the idea of control so what are what are all the possibilities you just named 10 different possibilities that could be influencing this what is who has control over that the one thing people have control over vaccines I can choose whether or not I do that or not I can't choose whether or not how many particles like you know the particles of of plastic are in the in the water I drink or in the water that's being or how much what pesticides or herbicides or whatever in the in the food I eat or genetically engineered Tomatoes or what right you can't really you have to be really really diligent and probably have a little bit of scratch in your pocket to be able to truly eat organic in a way that avoids all of that um and then You' got air and you got all this other stuff

[46:52]  so all this stuff engineering genetic engineering is happening everywhere and there's pollutant and all this stuff it's almost impossible not to so then if you just give me 10 10 off 10 Things I think that might have something to do with this I think inherently as humans I'm like what's the one thing I can draw on this list very human right I can make that decision right I have some sense of control I feel as though I have ownership or control in this moment when so many the rest of it's like I'm a victim to the surroundings yeah I mean I was having a conversation with my uh with my one of my best friends yesterday and he was talking about the prevailance of lead in child Foods right like all these different things even like so his daughter right now is dealing with some constipation issues and they were like we got her these beet pouches and then we found out that these beet pouches

[47:41]  have a ton of lead in them so he went to the person who had the best information about the situation which is his brother-in-law who is a farmer and he said oh no you don't recognize that there's lead in all of the soil so one thing that you don't recognize there's so many levels to this that you obviously don't even you can't control contr individual variables and that was something that was a inspiring to me CU I was like there are so many larger macro issues that are at hand here that we really don't understand and it kind of becomes overwhelming and naturally you want to look for control exactly like you just said Justin right right I think I think it's uh it's human nature to want to feel as though we're not like this thing is not just happening life is not happening to us right and so especially when it comes to um your child and the well-being of your child I mean most parents when their child's

[48:28]  born like I want to give them the best chance of winning right of succeeding whatever my definition of that is whether it's friends and family whether it's monetary whether it's Health whatever if someone tells you this is a thing that maybe could possibly change that outcome right it's a it's a it's a I want say easy decision but it's a at least it's opportunity to make that decision right here's other stuff you can't control any of this where do you where can I control okay what have we not talked about here today so far well I think the the you know some of the what we've talked about uh we we've touched on this is the the the abilities of autism and the work that we're doing as our organization so we have direct service programming we work with young

[49:15]  adults to try to get them job placement we work after school programming with social um social skill development um we have a couple other programs that we operate as direct service to autism uh on another branch of what we do is community awareness education um advancing kind of we talk about what autism is and what it isn't and we talked a little bit about um double-edged sword of of autism in TV shows in movies and it's becoming more of an understood thing autism spectrum disorder is a spectrum so what you're seeing on TV are typically um people with lower need and some of savants the good doctor things like that which is so wonderful and amazing and great that you've Got Talented humans uh whether they're actors or they actually are neurodiverse

[50:02]  themselves um playing these roles and giving some sign to this but when you say my kid has autism they're like oh are they going to be a doctor or an engineer or they're be an it and you're like they are non-verbal and they're 12 and they are 6'4 and I am terrified of them ever walking out of this house or being in the community without me next to them and I know that some point in my life they are not going I'm not going to be there and that's ter verify right that is the other end of the spectrum right so there's this whole autism spectrum and every aspect of it is is unique to the individual or the family and there's groups and subgroups and things like that with Loosely informally defined uh with seizures or with di with digestive issues and all these different things right um so that is one area that we touched on I think is very important

[50:48]  um to for people to understand that if uh we we trained police officers we had a police officer was like I'm the autism guy because I have a son with autism and your training just told me that I am maybe even uh worse off than all the other police officers because I think autism and I go oh they must love dinosaurs because my kid loves dinosaurs blah blah blah I know how to work with autism because I know I'm my kid and you just told me that if I someone else like this guy's got autism they're like hey you know we need you here this guy's got autism and you walk in like I got this and you're like oh my God this is not the autism that I know so it was which is a beautiful con conversation or comment on his part and and um really helpful I think in the moment because he's like I've been the autism guy for eight years like I'm just a guy that knows I know more than the average bear

[51:35]  but I realized there's a bit of you know ignorance in my knowledge because it's so focused on one human my one human interaction that is deep but not wide wow this is really interesting this is like blowing my mind right now to think about how depending on the the lens in which we look at a certain situation we will train individuals and put respons responsibility like this officer on their shoulders when we don't truly understand the problem or the complex situation in which they could be coming across in real life for sure I was like naturally my mind went to the place of being like yeah like you know anytime someone's got an issue with a big scary dog just call me because I have a dog that hangs out in my office all day you know what I mean it's like you don't understand the complexities in the individual nature of the situation that you're dealing with let's kind of let's

[52:23]  riff a little bit on the um the Continuum of Care because I've had some other leaders on the podcast and we've talked about the element of once you be once you turn 21 22 years old we're really kind of getting back into a services and a support desert right when it comes to helping these individuals I would say Garner and gain these life skills that are so NE necessary for Independence how are you kind of thinking about that side of the spectrum of support as well uh yeah I mean our our organization we have a branch of programming we call our Prosper programming we have Prosper Workforce program we have a Prosper Academy which is life skills and then we just we have a Prosper Community which is social skills right just social outings um when the school system at age 21 says we don't legally have to do

[53:12]  anything more for you um when you're um which is also probably opportunity to communicate socially to have autism you have to have you have to exhibit a social or communication impairment right so just Back to Basics real quick so you basically say you don't navigate and communicate the way others do so immediately you have isolation happens because of that um and if you don't have a support system outside of your family then you are limited to what your family can and can't can afford can uh like drive you places what public transportation exists can you navigate public transportation um are you kind of a sheep in a Land of wolves you know like there's a variety of factors that say um there's a limitation of what you can and can't do unless un there's somebody next to you and that person next to you has to have a life that

[53:59]  allows them to be next to you and whatever they can do gives you that is your life right we talk about siblings siblings only have siblings experiences we can't go to the baseball game you know because of your brother if they hit a home run and the fireworks go off like all bets are off so you can't you don't go to baseball games anymore uh we you we can't we we go to the wedding but we can't go to the reception because if a balloon pops or loud noises or whatever lights and DJ whatever we just don't know how it's going go right so people are navigating that at all times um for kids and kids with autism spend the majority of their lives as adults with autism but everything I just said you have a 25-year-old a 30-year-old a 40-year-old goes to a baseball game and fireworks go off and someone hits a home

[54:46]  run and they're covering their ears and they're you know uh exhibiting distress in that moment hopefully majority of people there are like obviously there's something more the story here but others are going to be like what's this dude's problem right because they physically don't show that I have a disability or some piece like that so you get to a place where all that goes to we call social isolation right you end up doing I go to the same restaurant I go to the same store I go to the same two people all right I do the same thing every week because it's regimented I have maybe sensory components I don't like new things it gives anxiety or sensory overload so every Wednesday at 6 o'clock I will tell you where others people that we work with every day it's every Wednesday at 6 p.m. you know exactly where they're going to be probably what they're going to be wearing and what they're going to eat if it's food if they do this and if they get the routine broken it gets disruptive so everything

[55:36]  I just explained to you um you wouldn't say these are characteristics of like a dating profile uh it wasn't necessarily like something for an employee or employer that wants um it kind of goes against some of the things that people are on social media and presenting right this is I'm this you know affable person I like to do things I like to be adventurous right I told you the opposite of you know a lot of what people are looking for so what we're doing with our programming Workforce um what so we call it like life work live work and play right so you got to have a job right you got to have a job to to work and have money and and all those can have value and those great okay what happens outside of 8 to5 that interferes with your ability to work all right let's do some things there what do you do with your paycheck how you saving

[56:23]  some do you know how to cook do you know are you just going know getting fast food what does that do for help right so there's that P okay so now we got you taken care of to the degree which we can work and outside of work but what's your quality of life outside of that well I talk to like my parents I go we go to dinner every Sunday or my sister and you know their kids I do stuff with them every as well okay that's wonderful but there's a whole other group of people that just need a little bit of need someone else to build that sandbox right so like we're going to host an event we're going to go to a baseball game we're going to go to the movies we're going to go bowling we're going to do um like a game board game night and we host it and we just basically are letting everybody know like when you come here we'll give you some instructions or some information for you to deal with if you want to go sit over there and talk with someone at the table like we're not

[57:09]  going to force you to do anything we're just setting set in this setting um the amount of feedback positive feedback uh from participants from their families from other community members are like you don't understand like how valuable this is we literally like hey if you want to go bowling for 2 hours on this date we'll be there that's not a huge lift on our part and it is like life changing we have people who are getting making friendships true authentic friendships and like they're going to go ice skating next week together and the first time they've been ice gting with anybody beside the family member they have birthday parties they're inviting people it's like the first time this is anybody at their birthday party that isn't a family member and it's many people don't appreciate that again like we're just going to go out and do this

[57:56]  like you're not worried about being the environment what kind of lighting do they have is it at brick wall is it there's a carpet on the floor you know where do I park how do I get in there what's this what if I don't know how to do this what you know right and all these things get in the way and the person says I'm not leaving because there's too many variables I can't control quality of life and what that means and so we focus a lot more and more attention because of the when um autism uh diagnosis started becoming more prevalent and and the specialist and the tools started getting more and more out there we're getting waves and waves of adults leaving the school systems and all those piezas and so across the country across the world more and more people are thinking of that Continuum of Care and really what are we doing for that quality of life you see in some bad stories of families who the

[58:43]  parents are passing away in their 80s and their 60-year-old kid has lived in the same house with the same people for their entire life they're not in the system because they don't need the system and now they're at 60 they're like all right the people who car for you and took care of everything are no longer there you are now in the system at age 60 right so we we see all the the wonderful benefits as well as some of the the things that we're trying to avoid happen um through the lens of our work I mean it's incredibly powerful dum man I mean you're creating safe places you're creating opportunities for exposure you're creating a sense of community that is so needed in this space in general right and then trying to get out of the way and and just like this is not like come to our program like really this the specific piece around the community part is like we're

[59:30]  setting a table and then we're just trying to out where there if you need anything because we really want want is friendships to be made and life to be lived outside when we're not around when we're not hosting events so I think it's critical to this is that we're uh we play a role we're the event planner but they're the they're they're the ones having having the time and they're the ones leading the E the efforts as we think about um what the future looks like here what are we thinking for the the next two three years of you know what the act the work that you guys are doing what are we thinking about from your position as a leader um I think mean a lot of that that young adult into adulthood components and then even you start to get even even further down that that life spectrum of you know 60s 70s and Care uh we're doing trainings with uh health professionals you think um uh

[1:00:17]  just recently we celebrated about a month ago maybe 3 weeks ago um a sensory friendly um hair salon opened up first one in Omaha and like those types of things where people are saying there's a need dentists so we're going to we do a training at a dental school so there's an idea of these adults need some support not a lot I mean depending on the group there there's there's a whole group of people that only need a little bit of support in order to thrive and we're trying to find that group of people and and give them the best shot offer our guidance and expertise and then let them shine right and then there's the entire Community um that needs to be like oh I have autism and I go to a restaurant and like okay well then we'll sit you over in the section we have the the lights

[1:01:04]  are a little bit different the staff has been trained and um you know we don't have as much uh um the speakers are lower not I have autism and they're like oh okay what what does that mean um I think I might have said this joke because I say it a lot but like like when you know those someone's like oh they speak Spanish and so the person just talks slower in English and louder oh okay I'm sorry and you're like it that doesn't change anything right that they don't understand it because you're speaking slower it's a different language so similar with autism want to get to a place where someone's like oh autism okay yeah this this way no worries if you anything let us know we got some sensory kits here our staff's trained like I'm not sure you know this could be wonderful this could be terrible if you got to roll out like just let us know we give you your money back you know we're not going to make

[1:01:50]  you pay $50 have a terrible five minutes and run out of here we've got a system in place we have policies and practices we want to make interest inclusive or a little QR code it says how can we make this better our goal is to make this inclusive inclusive to all and if we miss the mark scan this code give us feedback right so I think there's um because those two are kind of dovetailed right it's not the the parent that has the child with autism anymore it is individual self- Advocates who are walking in this community and navigating these things and we as much as we want to create opportunities for them we also want to prepare the rest of the world Advance educate um we have a saying around here if you know better you do better um and so we really want to get to a place where we try to get people to know better the non-autism community to say this is what's happening police

[1:02:38]  officers were continue to be a fantastic um like we train them regularly locally and around the state um more and more people are getting interested in this this um neurodiverse experience because they are approaching individuals and they don't present any certain way besides maybe they're in mental health maybe it's strug drugs and alcohol maybe they just they don't understand what I'm saying maybe they just don't like cops and so that's why they're not complying but what if it's autism what if they're so scared and terrified by lights and sirens and that someone's yelling at them that they're frozen and they can't take their hands out of the pocket can we just add that to there so that's Cur the next couple years I really feel like the the young adult adult components the independent living as well as cultivating a community that says you're welcome here and even if you're different or if it goes sideways like it

[1:03:26]  is what it is like it doesn't mean you're not welcome here come back another time and we'll see if we get it right the next time I love it as a tradition we end the podcast here by asking um a question from our previous guest at this point in your life how do you now define success uh that's a great question um I was say meeting goals seems like the easy answer but I think it's really in the in the goal setting it's it's like uh meeting goals that have been set appropriately that you're truly you're truly getting to a place where you've said um without anybody looking completely natural neutral environment when you say what is it that you really think you can achieve and you establish

[1:04:13]  it and you actually put metrics true metrics two measures it's not all that Sizzle there's actually stake in there it's a stake and a Sizzle it's all that piece there and then you actually there's going to be some sacrifice I was just at a fundraiser the other day for some of the organization and and the gentleman said give give where it it hurts a little bit right everyone everyone can give when when it's when it's when it's easy when you don't miss it but give give just start to wait into the waters where it's a little uncomfortable because that's that's where you need to be that's the part and so some with the goal setting similarly is like set the goals that are a little uncomfortable that actually force you to they not the easy layups or that they're so gray you can't really say well we pretty close to that one um so I think success really is is a setting an expectation and uh true

[1:05:04]  measurement to identify that you're achieving it um and that's tough it's tough to set those everyone wants to set a goal that's that's a little gray it's safe um and it's uh myself included and so we're try to find ourselves like let's actually put black and white and we can say we fell short even if we did a whole lot of it like 95% is not 100 but 95 more than what we did last year so I think that would be success I really into that goal setting piece like goals and measurements and not just the Feelgood stuff it has to be it has to have meat Justin dockerty thank you so much for coming on the show man really appreciate it you are the definition of that intersection of heart and hustle truly thank you so much for coming on the show man I really appreciate it that's a wrap