The Power of Curated Resources and Critical Thinking in Today’s Higher Ed Landscape

[0:00]  at we're back from the weekend with the Hard Hustle Podcast and Dr. Carrie. Dr. Carrie, where are we watching or where are we virtually visiting from?

[0:21]  He I am joining you from beautiful southern Oregon in Ashland, part of the Pacific Northwest.

[0:28]  I'm a I'ma ask you the same question my wife asked me when I told her we're going to Boston. What's in Oregon?

[0:36]  I mean what's not in Oregon? We've got waterfalls, we've got trails, we've got rivers, we've got Sasquatch, you know, or Bigfoot. so we have a little bit of everything out here. Well, I mean that's what they say. I haven't personally seen Bigfoot, but

[0:47]  Ha ha ha. Love it. Is that a real thing? You're not you're not going on those trails trying to f find them.

[0:58]  Well, there are trail cameras out there, right? And so as you drive around, there are lots of actual like Sasquatch figures. And so sometimes on road trips you're like, ooh, how many are we gonna see? so it's a thing. It's a big deal. well, from Northern California originally, Sonoma County, but I also went to school in Northern California in Humboldt County where

[1:06]  That's funny. Love it. Born and raised?

[1:15]  Bigfoot also lives there apparently as well with the big redwood trees. So, you know.

[1:23]  Yeah. Starting think you're looking for him. I'm starting to think that you you possibly

[1:32]  Well, I am tall and I have large feet, so maybe I was like, you know, who knows? Who knows the possibilities?

[12:37]  I I love it. I love it. We just had our fourth of July weekend for those that are watching. how was fourth of July for you? Two hundred and fiftieth birthday for America. to me, yeah, I'm not gonna lie to you. I was actually asking my neighbor this that was a former Marine. I'm like, does it feel different being two hundred and fiftieth or is just another holiday? You know, because to me it felt like a just another holiday. What did you feel?

[12:37]  Yes. Yeah. I it felt like just another holiday a little bit, although with the I think they're for our town parade, we normally only have 40 floats. This year we had 52 floats. So I mean I think people were excited and definitely felt that 250 energy. but it was it still felt the same kind of joyousness, celebratory sense.

[12:37]  Exciting.

[12:37]  as you know, two hundred and forty nine. So that

[12:37]  Yeah, no, for sure. I I would say the fireworks lasted much longer. It was it started about eight thirty and I sore it in and stop till one o'clock. Like non stop. You were hearing these things. so I would say people very patriotic out there. I I seen some cool ones. I was looking at some of the fireworks that people were doing out there. I was like, Okay, I can see maybe I didn't feel it. But others were out there really celebrating. But you know what, people, you give anybody a reason to celebrate hard, go hard, and they're gonna do so anyway. So, you what, it could have two forty nine that they'll celebrate just as hard.

[12:37]  huh. Yeah, and w they did. Yes. Exactly. I know, they would have been like, Yes

[12:37]  Doctor Carey, what are you representing today? What what is the school you represent today? What is your title?

[12:37]  So yeah, so I am at Southern Oregon University and I am the Assistant Vice President of Student Affairs and Dean of Students at

[12:37]  Yeah, how we get there? How we get that to that position?

[12:37]  Well, you know, a a long and winding road, right? I feel like most individuals who end up in student affairs, the majority probably didn't set off, you know, at ten years old saying, I want to be a student affairs professional. exactly. They're or like they go through, you know, their college experience and then they kind of start thinking, wow, I could help students and work on policy and have fun and do all these things and be around the academic environment.

[12:37]  Yeah, they didn't know it existed probably.

[12:37]  and that's kind of a little bit of my story. I had always done things, but I was always planning on being a faculty member, right? And I started applying for jobs and I wasn't getting hired. And so I mean I would get some interviews, and I was like, what's happening here? but it was actually my mom who said, Well, why? Aren't you trying some of these like director roles of student success or advising? Why aren't you doing something like that? And I thought, maybe I should apply for those. and as soon as I started doing that, I was getting interviews and got multiple offers. And it was this idea of like, yeah, this is a perfect mixture. I still get to be in that academic environment. I can still teach, but I can do what I felt to be a greater impact on student experience through that.

[12:37]  So a couple of things I noticed is that you got all the energy from the kids. Like I told you as we got on, it's like you got energy, but it's because you sat around it by all the energy, right? That's one. Two is that you never really left school and you must love school because not only did you finish school and then go work at the school, you went to go get a doctor's degree. Wha what what was the reason behind that? The doctor. There had to be a good reason unless you just love school that much.

[12:37]  Yeah. Yeah. I did. Yeah, I Well well, I mean, okay, so I originally wanted to be Jane Goodall. and so when I was in third grade I decided I wanted to work with tigers, right? And then kind of went to Marine World in San Jose, California, and then like saw the primates and just thought, actually I think primates are where it's at. And so my whole world kind of surrounded around studying whether it was chimpanzees just in captivity or various capuchins and and monkeys in the wild to then going, I'm gonna, this is what I'm gonna do. and and you know, lived abroad, traveled, studied lived in jungles, and did all of that work. А не the big piece of I wanted a family, but often when you're studying wildlife in other countries, you're gone for long stretches of time. And how am I gonna balance all of this? am I I mean I remember distinctly thinking when I thought, if I'm gonna stay in the US, am I a bad person? Right? Because can I not hack it? being in the wild and so kind of this reckoning of, you know.

[12:37]  Yeah. Ha ha.

[12:37]  studying animals and being and kind of a rolling stone had been part of my identity. and then going, who am I if I'm not, you know, Carrie who's always off following monkeys somewhere. So kind of had that reckoning. and then realized I'm not a bad person. and that you can you can change some of your priorities and you can still have your passions and find outlets for that and have new things that you can enjoy.

[12:37]  So is that the passion? Is that what keeps you, I would say, sane when things are going crazy, just kind of going into the wild and just immersing yourself into it?

[12:37]  It is. So one of my like side hustles is I'm also a board chair for our it's an environmental education group called The Crest. And they have goats. and one of the first things when we moved out here to Southern Oregon, my daughter, who was five at the time, she was struggling a little bit with moo leaving where we were in Montana, kind of coming here, she was a little bit sad. And so she had gone to my husband and he said, you know, Viv, what would make you happy? And she said, goats.

[12:37]  yeah.

[13:45]  I we have no idea why. And he Googled goats near me. and this Willow Wit Ranch, which was, you know, 12 miles from us, where you can just go and play with baby goats and it's free and you can go. So they went and they played with these baby goats and then came back home and they were like, Carrie, you gotta go out and play with these goats. And so we went and we actually did they let you just take 13 goats on a three mile walk by ourselves and the goats, like the goats know the route.

[14:54]  Ha ha ha. Wow. You're living your dream, huh, Doctor?

[16:03]  and it was like, ha I'm in the woods and like birds are flocking to me. It was just so much fun and just calming, I would say, right? It's that idea of getting out where there's no cell phones, there's no people really, and just communing and that's what I think keeps me grounded when I need to like dig in front of like can I just be near an animal somewhere, sit in the backyard quietly

[16:03]  Mm. Mm-hmm. yeah.

[16:03]  We've got our own little mini farm at our house. It's not really a farm. but no chickens, although boy would I want some chickens. We do have wild turkeys that come to visit. Actually, the other night, a black bear was just on the other side of our fence hanging out. So our friends from LA are like, look at there's a bear in the backyard. but but two dogs, a bunny, and a cat. Yeah.

[16:03]  You got you got you got chickens? my god. My my wife be Okay, yeah, you you got some animals there. My my wife is always talking about a chicken. And I said, Who's gonna take care of this chicken? Did can you imagine me just running around and tasting this chicken? I can't do that. and she's like, We gotta get it. The She's like, you know, it's like fresh eggs. But then she's then as she was reading more on how to, you know, take care of these chickens. And she's like, my god, they actually are work. I said, Yeah, you're gonna do it because it's not me. I'm not taking care of the chickens. Now there were monkeys, you know.

[16:03]  He gotta build a coup, gotta build a coup Yeah. Yeah.

[16:03]  One animal I would love is one of those little monkeys. And people think I'm crazy, but I'm like, It's cause you don't like monkeys. And I think we talked about it while you were telling me about monkeys. I went to go back to look for it. I'm like, you know what? I'm just I gotta send it to her when I find it. I gotta send it to her. because it was when I went to South Africa, that's all I cared for. When I heard there was monkeys, I'm like, I don't care about the lion, the safari. I just wanna go see the monkey. And to just be there and just I told you, just them running all over you and sitting there and and you know, pulling on you. But my drawstring had a

[16:03]  Uh-huh. Yes. Yeah. That's right. You gotta find that photo. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[16:03]  drawstrings to the to the hoodie and he's just chewing on it. Like I just thought the coolest thing when I had to leave I was it was sad. I would never forget that day. but just like you nature is so amazing. I love that you find that the peace in it. I was walking with my daughter yesterday and it was raining. So I said hey you want to go for it wasn't raining too bad but I said let's go for a walk in the rain. And we're sitting under these trees and all you can do is just kind of hear the tree, you know, the the water hit the trees. I said

[16:04]  Mm-hmm. Yeah. That is. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

[16:04]  She said, what are we being quiet for? I said, you hear that? If we were in a jungle, it sounds even much better. Like I'm trying to create this imagination for her because it does. I mean, I know if you've ever been in in the the woods or the jungle while it's raining. It's like, I can go to sleep in it.

[16:04]  Exactly. Yeah. I know, that is that like the rain on the leaves in a forest and kind of the trickling down and then you have the mist. I love that. I love that.

[16:04]  Mm-hmm. Okay, so we talked we talked about one of your passions, which is the outdoors. Now we're gonna talk about the second passion, which is students. It's really fertilizing into the future. How long have you been doing this, Doctor?

[16:04]  Yeah. Well, I so it depends on what you want to count as doing it. So I like to think that I started, I mean, I started babysitting when I was 10, right? So I've always enjoyed the love kids, right? And and so with that, and then when I went to college, I was a university ambassador for my school and a campus tour guide, right? And an orientation leader. And so that to me was all this experience of

[16:04]  Love kids. Yeah.

[16:04]  helping students make the right college selection, right? by being a tour guide and the pros and the cons and the good you know, all of those things. and and then orientation was all about course selection and choose your path and this kind of choose your own adventure style. and I have to like choose your own adventure is like a something

[16:05]  Yeah.

[16:07]  Like those old books that were around where, you know, choose your different pathway and the story could go. That to me is a huge way of thinking about life that the there are different paths one can take. and so doing all that, so I want to say over 20 years I've been doing that. As I said to a student the other day, I made some joke about doing it for 20 years, and I said, I know what you're saying, Dr. V You can't be older than twenty three. How is this possible? but but it's been a while and and every step just really figuring out how how to help others. I'm a helper at heart.

[16:10]  Yeah. Yeah. I I love it. I think about when you mentioned that you were giving college tours and you were doing orientation. And I'm like, I can tell why you you've chosen to do that, actually. You are the energy that someone sees at first and it's contagious. So you being that person to go do that, it's like, yeah, she got right? She's gonna she's gonna wheel them in. Can imagine you're still doing that, but it's because of just life is can imagine it's the education, it's people pouring into you.

[16:13]  Yeah. Thank you. Hehehe

[16:16]  But it's also probably all the books that you read behind you. What is your favorite book? I I I just took a the back and like, wait a minute, that's a lot of books out there. So you're a big reader, I'm guessing?

[16:18]  gosh. I I do I do enjoy reading. and actually the my favorite all-time book is actually a children's book and it's called The Phantom Toll Booth. and I don't know if my gosh. So you gotta w you have to read it. There's also a film from the like nineteen eighty-two that is not as good as the book. I know of course not. I mean I've heard, I've heard. they had it on Netflix.

[16:21]  Never heard it. Phantom toeboot. Are you are you sharing your age with us here? Is that what you're doing?

[16:24]  but Phantom Tollbooth is really about a character, Milo, who gets transported to this other world with Dictionopolis, and he's trying to save the princess's rhyme and reason. But there are so many puns and just funny, funny things that he encounters on this journey where he had been. in his life very bored and like, nothing is exciting and you know, his surroundings not paying attention, I would say. And and so as he goes through this phantom toll booth that arrives at his apartment one day and transports him, he is then like, you need to actually pay attention to the world around you and experience things. It's not a Disney movie. I don't know.

[16:27]  Yeah. Is it a Disney movie? 'cause it reminds me of have you ever seen the movie Elio?

[16:30]  No, I haven't. Ooh.

[16:32]  So it's kind of like he feels that his, you know, his sister's taking care of him, but he doesn't feel like sh she's spending time with him. So he he's trying to tap into the outside of the universe, ends up finding, then they switch him. Now there's a body here in on the on earth that is him, but it's not him. And then he's actually so when you said that, it's like almost similar. But you how they rewrite movies and they'll Disney takes, you know, not talk Disney, but they'll take ideas and you know what I mean? I love it.

[16:35]  Mm-hmm. Okay. Okay. They do, yeah. Maybe it was inspired. Yeah. Exactly. But no, it that is one of my all time favorite books. I I I've read it to my daughter. I'm hoping one day she will reread it. I know I read it when I was a kid and then I reread it in high school and I continue to reread it and just find it hilarious.

[16:38]  I'm I'm a I'm a ri rift off some some book names. Let me know if you read any of these. You could probably cause these are like truly legend books here. Corduroy.

[16:41]  Okay. Okay. Big ones. Yes. corduroy like with the bear? Yes, of course. yeah. course. How could I not? I can't

[16:44]  The bear? Yeah, yeah. Amelia Bedelia? Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And let me see another one. And Clifford, those are my guys. Clifford the Vigorette dog. Yeah, yeah. Amelia Bedelia. I mean, who would have thought when we think about it now, reading those books at the at you know, at that age, it's like, should we been reading those books? Like, she was doing all the type of wrong things, and we were just following along with Amelia Bedelia.

[16:46]  Clifford, yes, the big red dog. Yes. No, those ones are all great. Ridiculousness. Yeah, Amelia Bedelia. I just I think there was one where she was baking a cake or something and it was like in a bed or it was just ridiculous. We're like, what are you doing, Amelia Bedelia?

[16:49]  Yeah. That is so funny. That is so funny. So when we talk about then that we just kinda went back right to Corduroy, went back real far back and and when you started school, it's probably very different now. The way that kids have to go through the process of signing up or the questions or now the parents being more involved than ever. What what is shifting now that is is is different than when you started or ten years maybe when you were just doing this at a different level?

[16:52]  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I feel like a big difference is the internet, right? and social media. but also the the cost is very different now. I would say the pressure and intensity and also an expectation that exists more now where it is kind of ingrained, I think it for a lot of people, like you finish high school, and there is like either you go to work.

[16:55]  Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep.

[16:58]  Or you go to college. Like those are the two options I feel like most students these days are like, okay, what what do I do? and and so with that comes, you know, incredible like stress of now which school do I choose? What what am I supposed to major in? If I'm gonna go to school, what does that look like? do I live on campus? Do I go close? Do I go far away? So all of those kind of and then there's also this like idea. Of school and college and what you're supposed to do and how it's supposed to be, that I don't think necessarily existed back in the like 80s and 90s. It was, you know, you had Animal House, right? There were a couple of big films about kind of the party's lifestyle. but it wasn't all the the pressure that I feel like students these days have a lot more pressure on them than previously.

[17:58]  Do you think it's easier to consume that information for someone that is wanting to go to a school to be able to go to a website, have a conversation, text in or whatever that may look like?

[18:07]  Yeah. I do because now the everybody has chat bots, right? And so you can just kind of and they're also pinging, you know, inside your scoop. If you look at a school's webpage, you're tagged and then you're gonna start getting those targeted ads on your social media, right? And so all of those pieces that technology has helped can again, pros and cons, right? Like it's one thing if you are kind of interested in an area and then they're reaching out to you and they're giving you information. we find that students nowadays they're having conversations with AI, right? Which is what's so great about Southern Oregon? What's great about Oregon? or would I, and if they're AI, if you're using it a lot, they know your search pattern. So think of like Amazon, Netflix, what movies you like. They're able to now say, Would I be a good fit for SOU? or is there another school that might be a better fit? Or which schools are a good fit for me?

[19:01]  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Curation around your life in a sense. You mentioned just everything is curated to you. are you guys tapped into a technology when you talk about innovation, curating those type of environments for the school?

[19:37]  Mm-hmm. Exactly. Mm-hmm. We are doing our best, right? And so I think it is we are trying every year, we're getting a little bit more finesse and fine-tuned in that. We really market SOU cares, right? And that is something that I think is what attracted me to SOU is this idea that they really I say they, we, the institution, really does care about the students and trying to figure out how to support them, help them navigate the system. And for students that need a little helping hand, I think our campus is a really good fit for that because that's how we're kind of structured, which is different. Like a lot of small schools say, we care about students, but I actually think SOU in a lot of ways lives that as we are trying to Create the infrastructure to support students to to get them to cross that graduation stage.

[20:13]  You know, one thing I heard, Dr. Kerry, recently was just a kind of the retention cliff from people just falling off. What are what are you guys doing, you know, that maybe other schools should be kind of focused on to keep that retention going?

[20:26]  Yeah, I think there's two things. So one, I I think it is important to help students realize that they can do this and they belong here, right? At the same time, this is where I'm a bad retention specialist, is I also think it is okay to step away, right? And to not have shame or see that as a failure. It could be taking a pause.

[20:37]  Mm-hmm.

[20:48]  And a recalibration because sometimes we will see students and there is a lot of life happening, right? And when there is a lot of life happening, the pressure of trying to pass a biology exam, like that shouldn't, that's not, yes, it's important, but over here, this life issue that you're dealing with, whether it's a sick family, that needs to be a priority. And helping students see that it is okay to pause to help. Like focus on the priority that you need to focus on and then you can come back. We're gonna be here, right? And it is okay to take a one year break or a two-year break or a one semester break or a term break, right? Like a break is okay. because if you were to stay and you're trying to do it all, but you're failing your classes, that is then like the failure, right? But it's not because you couldn't pass your classes, it's just there was too much going on.

[21:56]  Yeah. Yeah.

[22:03]  And so how to choose what to focus on. So I think if you can make a I I say like a kind off ramp so that they'll want to come back.

[22:11]  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. Life do be life and I was that student that I was in South Africa taking classes and but I was also facilitating out there. So my mind was on monkeys and exploring. And when it was and you had to get this paper done by a certain time, you don't know how many nights I had like, do I go out with everybody or do I stay here and do what do you think I was doing, huh, Doctor? I was probably going out with everybody, still trying to finish that that work. And that was that's kind of why I was like, you know what, I have to put a pause to it.

[22:18]  No. Hm, yeah, mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. Exactly.

[22:26]  Because there's so much going on and not in a bad way, sometimes just even in a good way, you know. and it is it is okay to pause. I think so many times people are afraid to go back. I've heard someone that is so I heard a first gen student that went and got their degree and mom never got a degree. So when mom seen daughter get it, she went back and now mom has gotten her master's degrees at fifty. Not because she needed it, but because she had time to do it. So it goes to show that no matter what your age is.

[22:40]  Mm-hmm. Yeah. that's awesome. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

[22:55]  You always can go back and there's always those people that are willing to just kind of navigate you to where you need to be and and hold your hand. I think a lot of people don't realize that in the college level. Like there's so many people that are there that care and that want to see you win. It's not just about taking your money, but it's about preparing you for life. That transition from high school to real life or high school to college sometimes could be intense. You know, sometimes you're not prepared for what that may look like. but what do you tell to that individual that is

[22:58]  Exactly.

[23:25]  probably wanting to go to college, but never experienced this, wasn't it school wasn't for them per se is what they say. What what do you say to that individual?

[23:35]  I think the biggest thing is you are not a burden if you need help. So many people feel that if they're asking for help or if they need help, that again it's that idea of I can't do this, or everyone else knows how to do it, and I'm the only one. So that imposter syndrome, don't believe that, don't feed into that. and again, I say I'm a helper, right? Most student affairs professionals or most people in higher ed in general, they're helpers. And so You asking for help makes us feel good, right? That helps us do our job. So reminding them you don't have to do it on your own. There is an entire community that wants to support you and remember that, right? And that and even if you try to do it on your own and you stumble a little bit, no one's gonna judge you if you then come in and say, Okay, now I need help. Great, let's do this. and so I think that is the the biggest thing I so I have some learning differences. And when I was in college, I didn't want to use my accommodations, right? because I just thought, well, I don't like, you know, I'll just try and do it. I when looking back, I wish I'd used those accommodations. Like they would have helped me so much and caused probably way less stress and anxiety in my life. and so now here reminding students

[23:35]  Yeah.

[25:00]  Sign up. You don't have to utilize it, right? Or have it the first time. So use these resources because they are there to help you. not do the work for you. They don't do any of that, right? But it's it's helping them. So reminding students, raise your hand, let us know if you need help, because there is a team that is ready to support you. You don't have to do it alone.

[25:21]  Mm-hmm. Love it. And you talked about just the resources and the help. Let's also talk to those leaders that are kind of in a space where they maybe forgot their why. And with life, life in right now, right? In so many different ways, we don't got to get into it. People are afraid. People are asking themselves, is this what I should be doing? Why am I doing this? What do you tell those individuals?

[25:42]  Yeah. So I think higher ed in general is about exposure to different ideas and really helping develop critical thinking skills and what I say is information literacy. So as you're judging the information that's coming through, right? And to me, when you have a a group of individuals that has critical thinking and information literacy, you get a better society, right? and it doesn't mean you have to agree on everything.

[25:57]  Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[26:13]  But that you can understand those different perspectives. And so to me, the why for college is yes, it can change somebody's life because what was once, you know, a preferred bachelor's degree is a preferred qualification is often now the minimum, right? And so you're helping change lives. and to me, creating this society of thinkers.

[26:37]  Yeah. Love it. And where could people find more information from about if they wanted to talk to you, if they wanted to find out about the school, social media, website, what does that look like?

[26:45]  Yeah. Okay, well, for Southern Oregon University, SOU.edu for us. And interestingly enough, and for me, it's Dean of Students, so D-O-S at SOU dot edu. And I I again I love helping and talking with prospective students just about the college journey in general and having someone that they can speak to that's in higher ed. Sometimes they're getting it from their high school guidance counselors. But someone who's in the system to say, Hey, let me show you the tips and tricks so that you can figure out your journey.

[27:20]  You got another twenty years in you, Doctor Kerry?

[27:22]  I think I do. I hope so. I hope so. I'm not ready to we didn't even talk. Well, and my new playlist, I just every year I do a welcome playlist. Well, I've got it on YouTube, Dr. V's Welcome Playlist 2026, Dance With Me. and then I also have a Spotify. so each year I have I curate a a a th theme playlist. And so I just finished on July first.

[27:30]  Yeah. The dance and dean. We didn't even talk about the dancing dean. Come on, where can they find this stuff at?

[27:39]  my new cohort mix, so I'm very excited about it.

[27:48]  Checking it out. I'm checking it out. And how about the dancing videos? Can we find those too?

[27:57]  Yes, you can find those either at Dean of Students, SOU Dean of Students on Instagram or SOU Ashland Instagram for our university page, you might see some clips of me dancing in the Fourth of July parade.

[28:12]  Love it. Hell yeah. Doctor, thank you so much for your time. For those that are still watching, these are the conversations that we enjoy. Are people leaders that are authentically them are showing up not for themselves, but to continue to fertilize the future, giving insights about what it looks like to turn on and turn off, right? You mentioned just kind of go out outdoors or spending time with your animals in the back. There's more to come, I can only imagine. but if you guys are still watching, understand that you're not alone in this space, that there are so many people that are willing to help you. And if you're a leader in this space, that there's also leaders that are willing to talk to you.

[28:27]  In Mm. Yeah.

[28:42]  And allow you to know that you're not in this alone. I'm Ephrain. This is Dr. Carrie. Make sure you guys go and check out more information so we can continue this story. Latest.

[28:51]  Thank you so much.