"They Said She Wasn't CEO Material" - Dr. Janice Whaley's 34-Year Journey to the Top

[0:16]  Welcome back to another episode here. Today we have Dr. Janice Wgley. Did I say that correct?

[0:21]  Yes, you did. You did.

[0:22]  All right. Listen, um, what I love about the last time that we spoke, you said they told you you would not see old material. However, you were patient. You're playing the long-term game. 28 years later, you prove them wrong. And you're still bringing others along with you. Like, that's that's the cool part about it. You answered an ad for a job. It turned into a 34 year calling. What did you feel the day you realized this wasn't just work, it was truly purpose. Um I think my second case that I went on um early on in my career I was a staff level employee and um I became a coordinator and I went on this case and when I got back one of the responsibilities at at that time was that you actually took the organ that was recovered to the operating room and in those days we still weren't as strict in in terms of meeting people and the patient that was going to receive the organ was in the hallway of the O and I looked at them but I didn't know if if that was the patient or not and they looked at me and they looked at the cooler and they said is that my heart and I said um you know because I didn't you know I wanted to be careful and I said I think So, and he said and he just broke down in tears and was like, "Thank you so much, you know, uh, for my second chance." And I said, "Thank the donor, not me." Um, but I was able to facilitate, uh, getting it here for you, and I wish you the best. And I think I left that morning knowing that this was my purpose, this was my calling. Um, and I've been able to make a career out of it.

[2:15]  And now you're CEO. Look at that.

[2:17]  Yes.

[2:17]  God, as my wife would say, God.

[2:20]  Yes. Absolutely.

[2:21]  This is cool. This is really cool. I I can only imagine the experiences that you were you were going through though to get to the before you got here um prepared you really for leadership. I mean, just that one interaction, I can imagine there was a leadership lesson to be learned there. So, how did those early experiences really kind of shape you, especially when there was people that probably didn't look like you in this space?

[2:41]  Yeah. And so, I noticed that a lot, especially when I was afforded the opportunity to go to meetings, I was like, "Wow, this room does not look like me." Um, and I think early on I I determined that representation matters and that in order for our communities to really understand donation and transplantation, I needed to continue to grow and develop as a leader so that I could communicate to people that, hey, um, this we do provide second chances. There's a lot of misinformation out there, but there are a lot of us that are benefiting from second chances. You know, in our communities, we have um diseases such as hypertension and diabetes and it causes renal failure. And so, you know, the majority of the people that are waiting are people of color. Um, and it's due to all the challenges health care disparities, equity, and and the ability to get health care causes organ failure when you're not taking care of yourself. Um, and so all of these things come into play. And I just wanted one day to be able for people to see that yes, um, this does matter. Yes, we can help people. And so I'm here today. What what kept you going when you could have just done something and pivoted to do something easier? Like this this journey for you was challenging, right? Pe people were telling you you weren't

[4:24]  ready for this.

[4:25]  You probably hearing you probably thought at some point, am I ever going to get there? The imposter syndrome is probably loud as hell.

[4:32]  Um, what kept you just moving forward towards this this goal of yours?

[4:37]  The people. the people that I knew we would be able to help, the donor families that even though they had this tragedy um would have hope through organ donation and you know and someone being given that gift. They would leave legacies. Um and in more detail um I was able to meet a young guy that had cystic fibrosis. His name is um Tyler Nelson and I met him when he was still a teenager. Um he had just discovered that his doctors had told them without a transplant, a liver kidney transplant, he would not survive much longer and so he was worked up and he was put on the transplant list. While he was waiting though, when he felt healthy enough, he did come to work at our organization, volunteer. Um, and one day, um, we, um, he wanted to get something to eat and I said, "Well," I said, "Do you have your license?" And he said, "Yeah." He didn't have a car. And so, um, it it's a beat up car, but it he had never driven a car before by himself. So I said, "Here are the keys." In my head, I knew that he was waiting on his second chance. And I knew that anything we could do to help this young kid, every day was important to him. So I let him drive my car. I was dying, but he did get to Chick-fil-A and back safely uh with my car. Um but he said, "Nobody has ever trusted me like that before." and he ended up getting a transplant. So, fast forward, um I kept up the relationship. We just had this bond. Um he went and talked to different schools about donation and transplantation. And it was a student's brother who was in an accident that actually donated organs to this to Tyler. Um and so Tyler lived um close to six years after transplant. Um you know cystic fibrosis does not go away and so over time um you know there are other complications and he just decided that he was ready to rest at a young age but he had lived the life of somebody who was 50 years old in terms of his parents were very well. um they did everything that they could to allow him to see what he may not see if he had lived even longer.

[7:23]  And so um he called me one day and said, "Hey, can you come to see me?" And he was in the hospital. Um and I said, "Okay, what's going on?" He said, "Oh, just come. I need to talk to you." So when I went to talk to him, I was um in a position um at the time I was a chief operating officer and I was kind of at the crossroads and just feeling very challenged and overwhelmed with where is this going? So I go talk to him and he says to me, um Miss Jay, um I've decided to rest. And I still it wasn't clicking in my head. I said, well, what do you mean by that? and he said, "Well, the doctors told me that um I have a 30% chance of a second transplant." And he said, "But Miss Jay, there are other young people that have not gotten even one chance. So, I'm not I want those organs to go to someone else." And then he started telling me about what he wanted at his funeral. So, I'm trying to hold back the tears because he is um he was such an adult at such a young age. He made it to 21. Um and um he said, "But there are two things that I want you to do for me. I think it was three, but two of them I'll share." He said, "The first is take care of my mom." And we me and her, we're we've been friends uh forever. Wow.

[9:01]  Close friends.

[9:02]  And the second thing he said was, "Don't ever stop doing what you're doing." He said, "I am here. I have had five more years with my family and my friends. I've been able to do almost everything that somebody maybe double my age has not done." and he said, "But stay doing what you do because it's people like me that you were able to help." And that has stuck with me and allowed me to have this resilience to keep doing what I'm doing.

[9:40]  And at the very beginning of the podcast, you mentioned um it was during that time that somebody had said to me, "I don't think you're quite cut out to be a CEO." And so I was that was in my head and then Tyler says to me, don't stop doing what you're doing because you help you have helped people like me. So I continued on because it you know organ donation and transplantation is no respector of persons. there. You know,

[10:12]  everyone is, no matter what race you are,

[10:16]  is um hampered by this. Um even COVID um some people needed lung transplants because of the after effects of COVID. And so I think for me it reinvigorated uh my want to continue to help people to have a voice to be at the table to talk about hey there's a certain way in which we should approach families and educate families about donation. Cultures are different. They're very important. And so we have to continue to dispel the myths and misconceptions. Um, we have to make sure that we are giving and just not taking. Um, and those are some of the things that I knew that I was in the position to do. And I'm here today as the first and still the only black female CEO in this country. Um, and I was proud of it when it happened, but 6 years later, I'm still the only one.

[11:24]  And if we are going to continue to get people to donate, we we have to be at the table. We have to help in making decisions. So, yeah,

[11:35]  I really want to go back to the story like what what is your why? That is the why. What why do I keep fighting? That was it. I The small things that we do in someone's life,

[11:45]  as in handing over the keys to a car.

[11:48]  Yeah.

[11:48]  Right. That was your pride. I mean, something happens to that car and now what? Like you have a bigger problem.

[11:54]  And um

[11:55]  I just remember this this uh woman I worked with and her son passed away. We went to school. So me her son went to school

[12:02]  and then um me and her happened to be working at the same place. So when she found out, oh my son goes at you know the school and then I her son was working. So whatever. It wasn't like I was best friends with her son. I knew her son in passing. We he was just cool. We had one class together. He was great. But then I worked with this lady and she understood my life situation, right? So she understood that I was walking to work 45 minutes a day, you know, day. She understood I was graduating. She understood there were some needs

[12:27]  and um she was just so kind to me. I mean to the point that she would do the same thing, hand me her keys, Ephra, you got to go get a tux. Here goes the keys on your break. Go do what you got to go do.

[12:36]  And she just trusted in me, right? She seen something in me. seen something in me so much that she showed up at my graduation. Her son wasn't graduating. I was graduating. Her son already had graduated the year prior. And um she came and and to this day I still got the charm. She gave me this necklace. It was a cross. It was a chain from Jared.

[12:53]  And mind you, I'm like I I never experienced this growing up. Like especially Jared like let's talk about it. You know what I mean? Like

[13:01]  so I always one I will never get rid of the charm. The necklace broke. I never get rid of the charm. But I found it recently and I sent her a picture and I said, "I would always cherish this because you showed up when you didn't even know that something was happening in my own life, you know, and for you, you just showed up doing the normal things that you normally do." That's what led you here is always being authentically true yourself. And I think that's what I love, Dr. Janice, is that you didn't have to portray anybody else.

[13:24]  You just had to wait for the right people to see you for truly for who you are,

[13:29]  you know? And I I think that's what happens sometimes. And and correct me if I'm wrong, doctor. Do you feel that sometimes we have to we're trying to portray an image that is not us because we're trying to get to a role that we want in reality just being yourself. Can we talk about that a little bit? If the Heart and Hustle podcast has ever sparked any idea or made you think differently, do us a favor. Make sure to guys share this, post it on LinkedIn, or even text that nonprofit friend that you just have. Whatever works. This is what keeps the conversation going and allows us to just grow this community together. Seriously, we appreciate you.

[14:05]  Yeah. I think one of the things that has allowed me to be successful is authenticity uh and not always conforming to whatever the standard is.

[14:18]  Um and it's hard to do that and a lot of people fear that it will result in them losing their jobs. Um, and especially in this day day and era where there are things happening that you never could have imagined.

[14:35]  Yeah.

[14:35]  But I think care and compassion um are are things that I feel transcend almost anything. I gave this kid an opportunity to volunteer at our office to keep his mind off of waiting for that pager that he carries to go off. I watched him daily checking his battery, waiting for that text that said, "We have an organ for you." And um and so knowing how desperate but calm he was about that second chance just made me know that wow this I need to be as real as possible as authentic as possible and I can still get the job done. And that has followed me throughout my career where I am authentic. I don't conform to the norm. Um I know a lot of people that do. Um I've distinguished in multiple ways when I realize I don't want to group think.

[15:46]  I want to think about how I can motivate and inspire people and inspire my team to do their best work. Kindness, compassion, empathy are things that are very important in that process. I'm so basic. So basic

[16:03]  basics. Yes.

[16:05]  You know,

[16:06]  I I um so many leaders just need to hear that it is the basics. It is just

[16:11]  allowing someone to feel seen a little bit of recognition. Like I was telling my um my neighbor, he's an electrician, you know, with all this extra copper, they he he usually just gives him the copper to cash in and you know,

[16:23]  which is cool, but I said that's cool, but just imagine if you cash in yourself and then go get them a gift card. Now think about how far that went cuz you thought outside the box makes a difference you know to just recognize people show a little bit of empathy a little bit of grace at times as well um as as we continue to maneuver through some challenging times. I ask I think there's some big myths around um becoming a donor. I can only imagine that you know a lot of them.

[16:48]  How do you break through that noise? Is there something that we can talk about that you can just kind of share that you hear all the time that is completely not true? it was just somebody made it up.

[16:58]  Um, yeah, there's actually a lot of that going on right now in in our industry. And what's bad is it's making people be reactionary and just totally 100% say, "I'm not going to be a donor." But they're not realizing that by them saying that someone on the list may die today because of it. Um, and obviously we don't want your organs until you're done with them. Um, but every day in this country, 17 people die. And there's over, excuse me, a 100,000 people that are waiting on a second chance. and they look like me and you and others, but they're waiting on a second chance to be able to finish school, to see their grandkids graduate. And so when these myths and misconceptions go out there, we hurt the very people that are waiting on the second chance. And so I would tell anybody, ask more questions. Don't go by what you hear on the news because there's always a sensational piece of that.

[18:12]  So I tell I tell you what I heard and you can tell me if this is right or wrong. So um I think I think on my idea says I'm a donor. I'm not 100% sure but I would hear that people would say they didn't want to be a donor because god forbid something happens that they felt they wouldn't be saved um because they were organ organ donor. And I don't know how true that is but it's just myths. Is that correct?

[18:35]  Yeah, it's a myth. Um, we don't come into play until the doctor has determined that your injury is unservivable. We don't want to be called right when they're removing the plug because a donor has to be on a ventilator, right? Um, in order for oxygen and perfusion to still go to the organs. And so it doesn't matter whether you're a registered donor or not. The whole point in getting you from say from the accident to the hospital is to give you a chance to live.

[19:14]  But if you get in there and you are showing signs of it being an unservivable injury, then we are called to identify whether or not you're a potential donor. What's very important for people to know is that less than 1% of the death population can be a donor. So, some of these stories um there's a lot of testing. It's a complex process and no doctor, you know, I've heard the story that somebody woke up in a bathtub of ice and they woke up and there was a note that said, "Call 911. Your kidney has been removed. Okay, but where did it go? Because there's blood work, there's matching testing that going goes on and no doctor is just going to take a cooler and say and get, you know, take an organ and say and put it into somebody without knowing the details about the donor. So, but there's this disconnect and it's always somebody's cousin that it happened to or friends of a cousin who heard it and you can never track down to where it came from. But the the one the myth that you mentioned is the most common that if the paramedic sees that they're a donor, that they're they're going to make them. Well, actually, what they do to to help you survive is required in order to be a donor. So, if they don't do anything, then you're not going to be a donor because they've got to resuscitate you. They have to intubate you. They have to give you fluids. Otherwise, your a your organs won't be usable for transplantation.

[20:59]  So, it's kind of a catch 22, but yeah.

[21:02]  Yeah.

[21:03]  No, I like that. I like that. I always wondered, you know, I hear it is a friend of a friend that said XYZ. You always got to be very mindful, especially nowadays. I mean, AI makes everything look real and it really ain't. So, you really got to be careful on these things. But, I love that you were able to kind of um talk about it. And I want to talk back to your leadership as well. One of the interesting things that you mentioned to me was that getting into this space, you weren't opposed of a of an executive coach, someone that can really kind of guide you to this next

[21:30]  part of your life. You know, you had to be prepared for this. There was going there's a lot of eyes on you. You wanted to make sure you came at this correct. What role do you think that executive coach really um did in sharpening your leadership and silencing the noise? I think that's another thing is silencing that noise that was coming with that new title.

[21:47]  Yeah. So, preparing to become a CEO, um I uh made some sacrifices and on my own dime hired an executive coach. Um and to this day I ha I have one now, a different one, but I still have a coach. um because there's value in in continuing to learn and grow as a leader. And so I've committed to that. But I hired because the organization that I was at had an executive coach, but that person being paid by the organization is has more interest in knowing where you are, what you're doing versus I didn't feel like they were giving me any leadership growth. In fact, um I am an introvert and what this person was telling me was that introverts don't make good leaders.

[22:48]  So I was constantly hearing all these things that was saying that I wasn't a good leader, but yet I had receipts of performance and you know delivering on extraordinary results. And so I was like, so you know, she said, you'd probably be a better consultant or she was just giving me everything but this dream and this calling. This was my purpose,

[23:15]  you know, and I was very intentional about trying to get there. So I said, "Okay, I'm going to get my own." So I get this new executive coach who really first he shut down the noise. He said, "I need you to get up every day and tell yourself in the mirror that you're the next CEO.

[23:39]  Don't need to say where."

[23:40]  And um he really helped me. He said, "No matter what you hear today from anybody, if it's negative noise, put it aside. Stay focused." And that's what I was a really able to do was to stay focused on the goal, work on my areas of opportunity. And um one of the key things was he said you he didn't say receipts, that's a new thing that came out. But he said, you know, you have the results. You've done the work. And so we just need to create um that story that you're going to tell to your next job. And so that's what got me, you know, to this place. And so I firmly believe in making sacrifice. I think I I miss getting my nails done for about a year. just finding my pennies and putting them together um and working with this person and he saw me through and I still talk to him, you know, not as often, but um he has remained a part of my life and now I have a different coach that helps me within my current space as a CEO. And I just think that if you're looking, we need to make sure that we understand that we can't cut corners.

[25:03]  Mhm.

[25:05]  So don't think that, oh, this person did this and they didn't even have a degree, so I don't need a degree. You need a degree. I'm speaking to my people. You need to advance your education. if it's not a degree, if it's a trade, whatever it is, get those letters behind your name. That's important. Um, we don't get those chances. We just don't. And I just don't believe I I believe our steps should be ordered.

[25:35]  And I believe that I sit in this seat because I ordered that. and I continued I mean I just finished my PhD last year um in organizational leadership and it's because I want to impart to people to inspire and motivate people don't cut corners.

[25:54]  Yeah.

[25:55]  Do what you got to do. I I think the biggest thing you're saying there doctor and believe me I'm going to clip this moment is when you mentioned that uh you know the sacrifice is needed like you understood hey I need this where do I cut from

[26:08]  and it was the nails it was the hair it was the trips and and as a coach myself I always tell people they always you know they're in a space where they could get to the next level but they're in their own ways and then you you say well this is my price well I I don't have money and you know I can't afford a coach and I think to myself well

[26:26]  the nails the hair or if you just make that sacrifice to invest in yourself.

[26:31]  Sometimes it is just a mental thing that you got to invest, right? Just the way that you you would invest in into um being fit, right? You got to go put in the work at the gym. It's the same way we got to build the mind. We got to find someone that can kind of help us with that noise, you know, that mindset reset. So, I love that you said that because there are so many people that are of color that think they can do it alone and then it's like it's the wrong mentality to have. So many people are in their own ways and all they need is someone to guide them to help them away from that, you know, get away from that noise or to create systems that allows them to really show up differently. And I love that the executive coach kind of

[27:07]  gave you all that that you realize, no, this was an investment in me. Yes, I had to make a sacrifice, but look where you're at today.

[27:14]  Sometimes you got to sacrifice a little to get a lot.

[27:17]  Yeah.

[27:18]  You know, so I like

[27:20]  Yeah. And I think the other thing is um your mentors don't all have to look like you. And true up until recently,

[27:28]  they none of them look like me, but they supported what I did and they were able to help me to get to where I am today. And I like that they're my best friends. And so, not everybody is selfish. Not everybody um is a bad person because they don't look like you. Um, there are some that will champion and will go to bat for you. And I have several in my life who have done that for me and paved this pathway for me. So, yeah,

[27:57]  I love that. That's another one. I'm clipping that one, too. Uh, what's one thing you tell yourself now that you wish you knew back then?

[28:03]  Um, oh, that's a that's actually a hard question. I think it took me a while to to to uh build the confidence because I had heard so much and I was like there's no one in as a CEO like me. In fact, in fact, I was the only black CEO and then I think a year after I became CEO, there were two um black male CEOs that ended up uh coming into the space. And so I just when I walked into my interview, I was petrified because I automatically at that I had to shut the noise down because the noise was telling me, "Oh, it's a wrap. You're not getting this job."

[28:51]  Yeah.

[28:52]  And I had to shut that down and say, "Be calm, cool, collected. You know your space. You're you know your expertise and you brought receipts. So, show them what you've been able to do. And that's exactly what I did. And, um, I'm so grateful for the work that a coach, my other mentors, um, they really prepared me to to be where I am today. And so, I think the noise was a challenge for me. Um, and sometimes when I would when I would talk to my coach, they would say, you know, you know what's getting in your way? It's not your expertise, it's the noise. And you have to just shut the noise down. So, I think my younger self could have benefited from where I am now. Like the noise, I don't even care about the noise. Um, we've had some stuff in the industry, like I said, um, that has come about. I sent an email to my staff and I said, "Stay focused. There's a 100,000 people depending on you. Stay focused on the work. Stay focused on the mission."

[30:04]  And so when you're focused on who you need to be, although my journey did not come overnight, I got to this place because I stayed focused. I was resilient. I knew I could do it. And I'm here today because of that.

[30:19]  You're so good. Um, you're so I love the story. I love the story. I love to cuz you know a lot of people they see these opportunities or they see people like you in these seats and they think it just happened as you mentioned overnight but there was so much fighting. There was years of you know fighting for this. There was the imposttor. There was the noise. There was the you know the lack of confidence but none of that stopped you. You just you just took that and it fueled you of anything. Every time someone told you no, it fueled you. And then God put people in your life like uh what was what was the gentleman's name?

[30:50]  Tyler Nelson. I was gonna say Tyler, but I didn't want to mess up his name. I knew that with a T. Tyler to to give you those words of encouragement,

[30:59]  you know, when you needed it the most. You said at that time, I needed it the most, you know, but cuz you continued to showed up. Just imagine you would have gave up. You would have never heard Tyler say that to you.

[31:08]  No.

[31:08]  You know, so I love it.

[31:11]  Yeah. And you know, kudos to his wonderful parents for giving him the life, knowing the possibility that he only had a short life. I mean, they poured into him like no other. Um, I was inspired by that. And so, he didn't regret one day on this earth. And kudos to to his parents for that. And they're still good friends with me today. Um, so yes,

[31:40]  who would it be? I mean hopefully we're we're friends too. I mean after this podcast who would want to be friends with Dr. Janice. Um I I ask you in the space of healthcare what I'm also realizing there's a lack of innovation

[31:52]  right I think AI now coming at full force that now healthcare nonprofit spaces are trying to get their data in line because in reality you can't util you can't utilize AI if there's no data we can't continue to handw write things we got to have things digital digital um are you guys in the space of looking at AI are you guys implementing it what what does AI look like for you in this face.

[32:16]  So I think it has a role but I will say that more in data more in how we execute to get to our goals in terms of how we educate the public. So in my service area um 60% of the population are people of color not you know Asian-Americans, Latinos um you know different groups. And so um what it has helped us to do is to know that and to know where the concentration of people that we need to educate and talk to about donation. They also make up a lot of the transplant list too as well. And so how do we how do we get the message out that hey people that look like you are waiting too as well.

[33:08]  Um and so it helps us there. I think we have to be careful that we keep that human component. So where they're making these AI visits to a doctor or whatever, yeah, that's not going to work with us. That human contact, that empathy that AI cannot bring to the table in words maybe, but not in how we interact um with donor families um you know uh and and people in general. So I think it has its place to help us build uh our awareness, our goals and different things but um the human interaction is so very important and will remain an intricral part I feel in in the work that I do in my organization because I don't want to talk to an operator or an automatic person when I have questions and so I think we're just going to manage it as best we can. Um, but I'm hearing that total jobs are going to be done away with because of AI depending on the space. I I just don't know. Like I don't like talking to, you know, a a voice recording that gives you prompts um all the time. Sometimes you want that human so they can hear the desperation in your voice or whatever the concern is. And it's frustrating because you can't do that with certain parts of AI.

[34:38]  Yeah, definitely at different times. Um AI is here as as we all know and it's figuring out how do

[34:45]  we do kind of adapt to it, right? That's where we like it's like when the internet came around. It's like when social media came around, we were all I was one of those when it social media Facebook days. I'm like I'm not getting into it. But everyone has a Facebook. Everyone has Instagram. Everyone's using the internet. And these are these are pivotal moments in in our lives that we were able to experience.

[35:03]  And I think we're just experiencing another um moment in our lives that we don't know what it looks like and how we're going to utilize it in, you know, in the future, but it's here. Um

[35:12]  Yeah. No, and we're we're going to train we have a group of people that's going to be trained in it and then how to see how we can incorporate it into some of our practices. I think when it comes to health care, when you mentioned it, I just said, you know, um we do that that human element where it's needed needs to say. Yeah.

[35:33]  Yeah. I think if AI is going to be implemented at the space of healthcare, nonprofits, it's always going to be at the admin level at the things that people don't love doing because in reality, no one went to school to sit here and write notes all day and become an admin. But you're you talk about just human experiences. Having that human interaction to me is always key. Even this I can we're having a great podcast but I can imagine if we were in person the energy becomes even differently because there's something about when humans get together and the energy in a room shifts um and and 100% I do agree with you it's never going to take away that human interaction empathy looks very different from me versus someone that is just giving you words but when I when you can see the facial expressions and that I really do care and it I it hit me you know you're telling these stories 100% do agree what is this most proudest moment you you you're you're just proud of right now uh of the tenure at donor work that you've you've been able to accomplish in such a short period of time. So I think the impact of my first year here where we were able to really come together and nearly do a hundred more donors in in one year which had never been done before and sustain that growth. Mhm.

[36:52]  I always knew the potential was there, but how we went about to achieve that was the question. And I think that's my most proudest moment because we took more people off the list than ever before that we're waiting on a transplant. Um I think that's, you know, again, maybe my proudest moment may have been when I got the phone call that I was the next CEO. Um, but I'm more into what that could do

[37:24]  for the organization. And so I was most proud of the opportunity to serve and then to be able to do what we did in my very first year here. I I feel like that's the most important thing where more people than ever before were able to get their second chance, were able to be at their daughter's wedding, were able to go back to school instead of being homeschooled because they were so sick. I I think when I see all the legacies that these donors have created for people who thought they were going to die today, tomorrow, or very soon. That's what makes me most most proud.

[38:07]  I love that. I um I have so many questions and I feel like we don't even have enough time. Like this is good. But I leave you with this before we get into the blind question.

[38:16]  We'll do a part two.

[38:18]  We have to. We have to. What do you want young leaders, especially women of color? I mean, your representation not just for an individual of color, but a woman of color. And not too many times do we see that at the table. Um, so what what is what is that when you're talking to them to know about staying the course? What do you want them to know?

[38:35]  Um, first and foremost, stay focused. Um, really be thoughtful, be authentic, you know, have empathy. Um, don't cut corners.

[38:53]  Um, and don't compromise. I think, you know, I was asked the question of whether or not, you know, I wanted to be something else other than the CEO. And the answer was no. And to be honest with you, when I first um when they the recruiter first called me, I asked some very basic questions about if there were candidates that were, you know, from within the organization, was this something where they just wanted to say that they had done a search

[39:34]  or were they truly looking for a game changer?

[39:38]  Yeah. And I said, 'If you're looking for a game changer, I'm the one. If you're looking for the status quo, then you probably need to stick to your guns. So, at first, I thought I wasn't going to get a call back. And I was fine because to be honest with you, I was doing well in my current position. Um the goal was this um to be a CEO, but you know, what's more than one more year if this was not the opportunity for me?

[40:05]  Yeah. So when they called me back and she said, "Hey, I talked to the board and they really want you to come in for an interview. They are looking for a game changer." I was happy to progress, but they could have hung up the phone and never called me back.

[40:18]  Yeah,

[40:19]  that was the risk that I took. Those are the things that my mentors and coaches told me and I was able to make sure that I wasn't, you know, just somebody that they brought in to say they brought in. And so don't compromise. If it's what you want, don't compromise. Don't compromise on your salary. Um women as we know are generally um still in this nation today paid less than men for the same job.

[40:52]  So don't compromise on that. Know your worth. Know your value and put it on the table. And if it is the position for you, you will get it. They won't blink.

[41:06]  I love that you and the confidence already before you even got hired was looking for a game changer. I'm that person.

[41:12]  Yeah.

[41:12]  You look for somebody for status quo, then you go look somewhere else. That confidence is already building. Like you were ready for that moment. You were so ready for that moment. As we start to uh wrap up, where can people find you? Are you on LinkedIn and more about the organization as well?

[41:26]  Yeah, so I'm on LinkedIn. Um Janice Whe um on on LinkedIn. Um and to find out about Donor Network West um ww.donoretworkwest.org or is the the our website and we currently service um northern ne Nevada and Northern California. So, shout out to my peeps in in Northern Nevada that uh we work with the West Coast. It's a

[41:54]  great community. Yes.

[41:56]  I'll leave you with this blind question here, Dr. Janice. What's one decision you made out of fear that you had to unlearn to lead the way you do now? Oh, this is the one question I'm g have to ask you to repeat. Oh,

[42:10]  good. What's that one decision that you made out of fear? You were you were scared um or you just had to make a decision and you just felt it was right that you had to really unlearn though so that you can lead the way that you're leading today.

[42:25]  What is a decision? Well, I think the move here, even after I got the job, I was like petrified.

[42:38]  Um, but I think there's another moment that was even more powerful and that was during co I was a brand new CEO. I'm like, what the heck is this? How are we going to still help people? How am I gonna instill resilience and focus in my team when their family members are being affected? When sometimes they are infected by this horrible disease and how am I going to get them to still go to work because again our donors are in the hospital and you had a hospital full of people who were suffering from this disease and I was asking my team members to still go in there. So the fear was that everybody was just going to ghost the or the organization. Um that's a good one.

[43:31]  But it they didn't the resilience. We did the same amount of donors that that year than we did the year prior. And so they were resilient, but with that comes thought too as well. I was very strategic at how to protect my team. And so I had to spend money to isolate people that still had to come to work uh to make sure they had the right mask and attire and give guidance. I had an infectious disease e uh expert talk to my team members every couple of weeks to let them know the latest and greatest on how to protect not just them but also their families. And so the fear was, you know, but then the results, what I learned from that fear is to breathe and to focus and to then create a strategy that will still have us able to do the work that we do because people are we're still waiting on an organ transplant.

[44:42]  Yeah.

[44:42]  And you can imagine they were fearful that they would die because of this pandemic. But yet we were still able to provide hope um to many many um recipients during that time.

[44:56]  Well, Dr. Janice, I definitely appreciate your time. What is your blind question for the next leader? You have a blind question.

[45:02]  Uh a blind question.

[45:04]  Question. Yeah. A question that's going to go to the next leader here on the Heart and Hustle. Do you have a question that you want to ask them? Someone you don't know the leader. You just want to

[45:12]  ask a question and you would probably never even hear the answer maybe to

[45:16]  what is your purpose?

[45:18]  What is your purpose?

[45:19]  I just I go by that because some people think they know their purpose but they don't. So what is your purpose?

[45:28]  Cathy guys this has been Dr. Dan with so much insight. Thank you so much for your time. These are the conversations that we love to have because it does expark um it sparks changes when people get to hear stories like this and see individuals like Dr. Janice that really had fought for where she's at today. It ch it changes the trajectory of how we see each other, how we live our own lives. When we get to see people like Dr. Janice at that table um and making such big impacts that probably no one ever even knew she was making the first but not the last because you're truly just paving the way for somebody else. We thank you guys. Make sure you guys do like and subscribe. Dr. Janice, we'll see you guys on the next one.

[46:05]  All right. Thank you.