Tracy Madden-McMahon Reveals Why 90% of Healthcare Donors Get Rejected (And How to Fix It)

[0:16]  Welcome back to another episode here on the Heart and Hustle Podcast. Our guest, she had insurance, a stable job, and a strong support system, and still she felt invisible. Today, we're going to be talking to Tracy. Tracy, what was the first memory when you knew this system needs to really change? I mean, you had a personal experience that really launched your health care mission 22 years in the making. I can only imagine now you just have so much insight.

[0:41]  I think anytime you go through um anything of a personal nature, right, you see what's working and you see um what needs improvement. And for me, it was definitely an opportunity to feel seen as a person. Um and so, you know, being in the hospital's hard. um not feeling well is hard. My my experience was um uh a pregnancy with twins and we had struggled to get pregnant and I had thought that was the going to be the challenge. It didn't dawn on me that staying pregnant would also be a challenge. And so um at 24 weeks I went into hard labor and those are the conversations where they say you need to get to the hospital immediately. We're going to give you steroid shots. there's a chance that you lose both of the babies. Long story short, I was in the hospital um for 6 weeks uh flat on my back on bed rest. And that's challenging for anyone. Um and I had to your point all of the things, right? I had a really good job. I had insurance. I had a partner who was supportive. I had an employer who was supportive. I lived 10 minutes from the hospital. I didn't have any other children at home. I mean, you know, again, best case scenario. And it was still really challenging even with all of that. So, who knows what every day in this is before Netflix. This is before anything. You know, I'm watching movies on the DVR and we're crossing off every day on a laminated calendar that I stay pregnant and one of the nurses saw that I was struggling. Um, and said, "What would make you feel better?" Um, which first of all, like what a wonderful thing. and I said, "I just want to see my dog is I'm a huge dog lover." And at that time, that wasn't something that was done, but she immediately said, "Okay, we'll make it happen." And in my mind, she probably thought it was an itty bitty dog. Um, you know, a legally blonde type of dog. And I had great parnees. It was 90 plus pounds, full of hair. They snuck this dog up through the freight elevator. And my husband took a picture of me just laying flat on my back with this dog on me. I'm gonna say ugly crying because it was not attractive. Um, and it was just such a moment of 22 years later, I mean, I remember vividly being seen as a person. Um, and that was really my beginning of my connection with Methodist Health System where I where I will now work. Um, and that is really what drives me every day is that same type of connection to have our patients seen um as people. Um, and and then we'll take care of all the rest. I mean, that's what they're there for, but they're also there to be seen as people.

[3:20]  I love that. And with everything you do now and you're seeing now and a leader, I mean, you're now leading the same foundation that you were a patient in. H how how like what what are some of the things that you feel first as a patient or felt first as a patient with everything that you're seeing being this leader? when I was hospitalized.

[3:41]  No, just now like what things that you're seeing now as a leader that you felt first as a patient. Is there anything that comes to mind?

[3:48]  Yeah, I mean I think there's fear, um there's overwhelm, there's stress, there's uncertainty, um all of that goes hand inand you know I I often think being in the hospital or even going to a doctor's office is such a reminder that people have really messy, complicated lives. We all do. Um, and it's challenging and we remember that when we're in the hospital, right? You have extra care for people. You direct them to the cafeteria or a bathroom. You you understand they're going through something and the reality is we're all going through those same things whether we're in the hospital or not. Um, so I think that is the driving force behind the work that we do at the foundation and at the health system is how do we meet people where they are, not where we'd like them to be, which is everything's going great and of course they can afford this medicine and of course they can follow, you know, do the doctor's appointment followup, but how do we meet them where they genuinely are um so that we can help them?

[4:50]  I love that. And then that moment with your dog, it I can only imagine it teaches you something about real healing um the way that you felt. Is this something that you're also still incorporating dayto-day for others as well?

[5:02]  Every day. And I think right the work that we get to do is all about team. And so it's manifested at all the different levels. It's the physician that sees the mom that's not going to make it to her son's graduation. and calls the principal on the weekend and they do a graduation ceremony in the hospital. It is the student um at our college who is a great student, but she didn't have enough money to eat for her family. And so, how do we meet that person where they are, you know, and and the president of the college helping deliver food to that individual? It's it's it's a culture of meeting people where they are and realizing that everybody needs help. Um that's not just a sometimes thing. Um and it's hard. It's really hard to ask for help, but boy, it makes a difference um when somebody does reach out a hand.

[6:01]  Has anybody asked you for a dog yet?

[6:04]  Um you know, we have talked about dogs. We have pet therapy here. Um we've talked about um you know do our employees would they benefit from having um a pet um because right being a caregiver is meeting people at really really challenging times. Every day is hard. Um the person's not feeling well. They've got all the different things. So what what can we do to support our own medical teams, our clinical teams? We do talk a lot about that.

[6:35]  I love it. I love dogs. you know, and incorporate these dogs, you know. I actually just went on a I went glamping um in in um at Disney.

[6:47]  Of course, Disney's going to do it up, right? But what was the best part about it is that you were able to bring your dogs

[6:51]  and like how cool, right? They had this nice little cabin and you see all these dogs all over the place. I'm like, I love when people just allowed to just bring the dogs cuz it makes trips so much easier. Like why would now if I can't take my dog, someone got to babysit my dog. you're missing your dog. You got to check up on your dog. But the dog was there experiencing and my little one's a little um she's a little older. I have a rat terrier and you can just see it like the brown is now white that she used to have in her face and you can just see, you know, you could just see she's aging for sure. This is her first trip with us and I was like, "Wow, just so she did well." Yeah. Yeah. We were in the car. I fed her some Chick-fil-A chicken strip, you know, probably the she never had chicken strips, but you know what? She's at that age. Let's let's make her happy. I can only imagine.

[7:34]  Right. Right. You're a good dog, dad. Yes. Here at our office, we do allow pets. So, you know, every day a different dog is here. And, you know, one of the great things is seeing people from finance or audit or compliance down on the ground with a dog. I'm like, you don't want to leave, do you? You're like, this is the highlight of your day. Yeah.

[7:53]  I I have a best friend that is terrified of dogs. And I'm the I love pitles. Like, I grew up with pitles. And you know, people say those are mean dogs, but I've never had any issues in the 35 years of having pit bulls. Actually, uh, last year I lost my pit bull after 13, 14 years with her. But, um, I always remember when we were young and you know those wild nights as a young person. We would just crash out at at my place instead of her driving home. So I one time she was throwing up and I oh she's going to hate that I tell the story but she was throwing up and um I said there's no way I can just leave you on the carpet like you're going to mess up my carpet. So, as a nice person that I thought I was, I put her in the garden tub, okay, with a pillow and, you know, comforter. And uh my dog stood next to her the whole night.

[8:44]  And mind you, she is terrified of dogs.

[8:47]  But because of that, she felt like, oh my god, this dog just wanted to protect me all night. She was mad that I put her in the shower, but I was like, listen, the dog was there while you went to bed. That's the part you're not adding. But yes,

[9:01]  so the next morning she is outside walking the dog that she was so terrified of.

[9:08]  Like anytime I she come over, I had to put this dog in a crate because I felt terrified.

[9:12]  So now I have a picture of her actually walking the dog and to this day she said that's the only dog I love. Ephraim, that dog did me no harm. It was just there to just help. And people don't see that, you know. So I'm happy that we were able to just show love to the dog today.

[9:24]  Yes,

[9:24]  for sure.

[9:25]  You mentioned school, you mentioned hospital. tell us a little bit about what you're actually in charge of and what are some of the resources you guys actually have.

[9:33]  So I'm the president CEO of Methodist Hospital Foundation which is the philanthropic arm for Methodist Hospital, Methodist Women's Hospital, Nebraska Methodist College, a bunch of different clinics. Um, and so our job is really to take a look at the health system needs, our community interests, and then see where there's overlap between the two, which means that we get to work on really great projects um that don't just incrementally move the needle forward, but hopefully solve some of the real issues that we're facing um thanks to donor support. So, it's a great job. Um, and it's one of those jobs where you get to see the difference that you make every day. Yeah, you're probably in the best uh extension of it, right? That that nonprofit organizational side of it because you're able to help on all spectrums of it. How do I help the school? How do I help the hospital? Um I love that. I love that as nonprofits, like we're always an entity to something, but we still have our own kind of almost creative control in a sense, right? We don't have to kind of almost follow every single law that's out there in the healthcare space. We can do different things. So, that's pretty cool. What are some of the things that you guys are seeing um from the nonprofit side that you guys are able to incorporate both in the the hospital into the school? Um maybe like technology. I think we spoke about AI and you were just a fan of it. Is that something that you guys are implementing in both these places?

[10:52]  Yep. And so I guess I would answer that two ways. What are what are we seeing? We're seeing more people in need. Um as a nonprofit, our job is to serve everyone um with dignity and to offer excellent care. Um, and when I started charitable care 14 years ago, charitable care was a thing for uninsured people and then it was underinsured people that had a high deductible plan and maybe didn't couldn't set aside the money and and something catastrophic happened. And now more and more it's it's everyday folks um that just are not prepared for what a major health journey can look like. Um, so there's that. Um and also there is all of the advancement when it comes to technology and so AI um virtual monitoring different algorithms um you know I think it can really augment excellent care. It's not ever a replacement for people. Um, but you know, to the degree that you can have a physician stop having to scribe perhaps, um, you know, do all of the annotating in an electronic medical record and maybe free up more time to be spending time with patients or doing research. That's a fantastic thing. So, you know, I think we're at the cusp of really seeing how we can align um technological advances and make sure that it's never at the expense of losing the human touch.

[12:18]  Yeah. And and I love that you're very um for it. There's still some people that are so against it, like they're living in fear because they think it's going to replace someone. But I think it like as you mentioned, it's going to allow us to do the things that we love more. um and the things that we don't love that we didn't go to school for you know writing notes all day that we can actually AI something like that and I just ask you because so many people also kind of in fear of how do we connect while building innovation what is your answer to that

[12:46]  I think it is not doing anything in silos and so you know a meeting I had this week with innovation was with our chief strategy officer our chief information officer myself you know how do we work on our chief nursing officer how do we work on these things together and and what is helpful to you. You know, I'm not a clinician. They don't need me to tell them, right? They know. They're living it. And I think that's such a reminder to all of us is to look around the table and think who's not there, whose voice isn't being heard, who isn't represented, and are we making decisions for someone else, or are we making decisions with someone? Um, and I think that's a real difference. And when you can have the right people around the table, um, that makes a a really big difference.

[13:32]  So Tracy, 22 years in this space because of a an experience you had in your life. What were you doing prior to this, Tracy? Like you're in healthcare 22 plus years because of an experience. But were you always wanting to be in healthcare?

[13:44]  No. Um, and I think it's slightly comical um because I was an individual who probably would have struggled to ask you to buy my daughter's Girl Scout cookies. Um, and now, you know, I'm working with funders on projects that are tens of millions of dollars, but the difference is it's not for me, it's for the health system. Um, prior to this, I've been here 14 years. Prior to this, I had a completely different career in broadcast journalism and loved it. Um, it was a wonderful, um, and that was really something that I had always wanted to do. It wasn't super conducive nights, weekends, on call, holidays. um with being the type of parent that I wanted to be once my children were in school. Uh it was just really hard to be able to be as involved as I wanted to and so looked for something else and I'm really fortunate that I found this

[14:36]  and I'm pretty sure broadcasting really helped you out because look look at you. You're so fabulous at what you're doing today. I'm pretty sure it makes it easier when you're talking to people. I do want to go into the sense of because I I believe a lot of us are in the space of at one point we were scared to ask, right? and now we're asking for even bigger dollars. Like where do you think there was a shift? Like did you have to go through some things? Was it just keep it doing it over and over until you became confident in it? Cuz to me, I would always remember being a nonprofit. And I I knew this realtor, obviously big realtor. You can tell he was making millions of dollars. And I said, I want to get into that space. So I says, "Hey, like how do I become a realtor?" His response to me was, "Ephra, this is a career. This is not just an in-n-out. you're in the nonprofit space where people are giving out millions of dollars, you just have to go ask for it. And I'm like, how do I ask for, you know, so much I just where I how I grew up, it just wasn't a thing, you know? So, how do you overcome that? Mhm. So, um I think my my prior background, you know, going to the door of someone who's loved one has just been shot and killed and asking for an interview. Um that was hard. Um the worst someone can do in this space is say no, which I don't want to minimize. Nos can be devastating. They're important. Um but I think it is really trying to understand what's motivating the donor, what the donor wants to achieve and then looking for that alignment. So you know early in my career I had a donor very clearly state to me you can ask my board for this. It's not really something I'm passionate about. I mean he clearly told me this is not something that I'm interested in. Right? But it was something that I needed the funding for. So I asked anyway and you know what I got back? zero. Um, and it was a real reminder because I should have known. I did know. I mean, he told me. I just he told me something I didn't want to hear and I I disregarded it. And so, I try not to make that mistake anymore. I try to really listen and hear what people are saying and realize, right, we're playing uh this is a long career. Hopefully, if it's not this project, hopefully there'll be something else that they're really passionate about. Um, and if there's some way that I can connect them to another nonprofit that may be doing the work that they're interested in, that's great, too.

[17:04]  If the Heart and Hustle podcast has ever sparked any idea or made you think differently, do us a favor. Make sure to guys share this, post it on LinkedIn, or even text that nonprofit friend that you just have. Whatever works. This is what keeps the conversation going and allows us to just grow this community together. Seriously, we appreciate you. Mhm. So I the nose very early on very hurt like I would I hear too many nos. I'm like you know what maybe I just put this on pause like it it does become that but the more that you do it like you mentioned you're just learning from all those you know times and all you need is that one yes to be quite frank.

[17:43]  Yeah.

[17:44]  You know you can hear so many nos. Yes.

[17:45]  That one yes changes the game forever. it does in your um confidence and really great funders will help you do better, will help you be better, will help your organization. So sometimes what seems really like why are they asking for that or why is it coming with this matching grant or why do I have to do XYZ? There's usually a strategy there and the strategy is to help you and your organization be better. Um and so I've learned a lot of lessons that way as well. What what roles do you think um donors should be playing and community members should be playing in reshaping healthcare? I I hear this a lot of times that healthc care has to be reshaped for for so long. It's just been a system that is kind of been broken and everyone wants to fix it. What what what do you think when it comes to these donors and community members? How can they continue to reshape? You know, I think that it's easy to get caught up in what's not going well, and that is accurate and true. Um, but I would say just as a larger reflection of society, it's sometimes easy to see everything that's not working and forget everything that is. So, I'm always cautioning people um for every story that we hear about the negative, there is another story out there. So, just make sure that you're not buying into we need to throw everything out. um because that's rarely the case with anything with education, with health care, with you know the stock market, with fill in the blank. Um so there's that and then I think donors really want to the words of somebody earlier this week, level the playing field. Um make sure that healthc care is accessible, make sure that people are treated with dignity, make sure that we're catching things early. And so I think the best donors look for how they can make a difference and what they can do with specific organizations. Um you know we have a great organization but that does not mean that they can give me money and and we can do whatever they want. No because that's not maybe our specialty or there's another organization that would do XYZ better. So, I think it's really knowing where your core competencies are and working with donors to make improvements along those lines.

[20:06]  I love that. And do you do you see a vision for health care um in leadership over the next 10 years?

[20:11]  So much of what I've seen in the past 10 to 15 years has really been bringing health care to people, removing those barriers. Um you know, mobile mimography is a perfect example. Um, we have a 3D big pink coach um that cruises around um that we fund via philanthropy, even has pink cones, you know, to to park and the whole bit. But it has really made a difference and I think people thought, which I understand, this will help um people who are uninsured and it absolutely does because there's no longer um a transportation barrier. um we have um translators so we can get past the language barrier. We have philanthropy so no one that can't afford a mammogram is turned away. But it's also for um women who are notorious for putting themselves last on the list,

[21:07]  who would never miss a well check visit for their child. but their own mammogram. Well, I've got a meeting and I need to leave work early and I want to get to my kids soccer game and I don't have any history of cancer, so I don't really need to get that mammogram done this year. It takes away that ability to to put yourself last because it's right outside your employer office and they're saying, you know, take the five minute walk, go for it. So, I think when we can meet people, when we can bring health care to them, when we can remove some of those barriers, we're really making a difference. And was this something already in place before you got there or is something that you

[21:40]  No, this was something that we we funded and we worked with other community partners on and again um being able to provide mammograms for those who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford them. That's all the work of our donors. You know, our funders are the ones who are saying I get to see every month, right? This month we funded 70 mammograms for these actual women and the peace of mind that comes from knowing it's nothing. And also the early detection when it is something is huge.

[22:12]  You mentioned the we were talking about community partners and donors and I think one of the things I see from board members at times is that they feel oh we already tapped in to them. We don't want to continue to reach out or we don't want to um overwhelm them. But I feel like I see donors a lot of times says no I'm I'm willing to always donate. You just have to remind me. What do you say to boards that are kind of, oh, let's not reach out to them all the time, or hey, we already reached out to them last year, let's not do it this year because I think that's also what keeps nonprofits and organizations kind of down at times that they have this fear that no one wants to donate two, three times.

[22:50]  What are your thoughts on that?

[22:52]  So, I would say that's not something that I hear from our board. Um, you know, we believe believe in building relationships and many of our donors um have funded us to your point again and again and again um because hopefully um there's alignment there. They see that you know it's a good investment. We're going to do exactly what we say we're going to do. We're going to steward them and show them the impact of their gift. We're going to ask for not everything under the sun, but hopefully, you know, put together a coalition of different funders that can help us get there. So, I would say, you know, to other nonprofits, I get it. It's hard. Um, but you, you know, let don't make a decision for someone else. Allow them, the donor, the funer, to say what they're interested in, what they're not interested in, when it's a good time, when they're overcommitted, when you should come back, what type of projects they're interested in. You know, those types of conversations will really help build a true relationship. And then I think it doesn't feel like I'm back asking for money again.

[23:56]  Yeah, I love the relationship piece. I think it's that's what it really takes is to build the relationship. Um and I think I told you last time we spoke that I took over this foundation and as we're putting together this gal I'm like I would love to have um alumni to the school, but also we need to look at our community partners. We need to look at those gamechanging individuals that are doing the work and how do we collaborate with them? How do we build relationship? allow them to see what we got going on to see if maybe it aligns with stuff cuz it's not always about just getting that dollar, right? It's about how can we build long-term relationship cuz sometimes it's their resources they actually bring. Um maybe it's not their dollars, but it's just the resources that they provide to us letting us know, hey, you should talk to this person, you should go talk to this person. And and that's what sometimes we're looking for. And so many people think it's just money, money, money. But no, I love what you said is let's build the long-term relationship cuz that people are always going to do business with people. So they see what you're doing and how you're doing it and that you're you're you're really true to the mission, it becomes easier to go ask because they've been a part of that journey. And now when you ask for the first time, they're like, "Oh, yeah, of course. I love what you're doing." You know, so I I I'm with you on that. I'm with you. You're dropping some gems there. And when it when it comes to um how people can really start to get involved in the space of making change in the nonprofit world, so many people just feel that they don't have time, right? Or they don't have money. What What are some of the things they can actually be doing to help out nonprofits um in a space of no money? No, maybe they say no time, but allow people to know how much time is probably really needed when it comes to volunteers. Mhm. And I think volunteering to me is, you know, find something that you're passionate about. The legacy that we leave is how we live our lives every day. And so find something that you're passionate about. If you love animals, like we talked about dogs, go work at the Humane Society. If you uh have been positively impacted, I I met a gentleman this week who said, "Oh, I volunteer in your central supply," which is kind of an unusual area to volunteer. And I said, "Oh, what led you to want to volunteer there?" And he said, "Oh, I had hip replacement surgery, you know, three years ago." And I thought, "When I retire, I'm going to give back my time that way." So, I don't think it has to be another part-time job, which is sometimes what we think of volunteering. It can be, you know, your organization is having a golf class, like, "Can I help out at the holes?" or "Can I help pass out um lunch?" It can be, you know, what I say my retirement job is going to be, which is rocking babies in the NICU. um once a month um for all those families who are far away and can't be there. It doesn't have to be overwhelming. But if you ever really want to get to understand um an organization, volunteering is a great first step because you get to meet the people that are doing the work. You don't get to hear me talk about our wonderful doctors and nurses and they are wonderful. You get to meet them. You get to see them. You get to understand why the work is important. So, I would say find something that you're passionate about and then find an organization where you can give any amount of time knowing that that's really going to make you feel great.

[27:01]  I mean, to what you said now, I got to figure out what do I want to do when I retire. I mean, I'm probably some years away. I don't know.

[27:07]  I have no idea.

[27:09]  I think about it like I I can imagine I just won't retire and uh I won't just retire and just sit home, right?

[27:15]  What will I do next? But I feel like I'm doing already in the nonprofit space. So maybe I'm just still talking and telling stories to young people. Maybe I I I have no idea.

[27:23]  That's a very good mission as well. Think about

[27:25]  Yeah, it is. Um I'm always been a big believer in just helping the youth isn't you mentioned it a little earlier. It's not about us, you know, it was when you had the kids, it was about the kids. How do I spend more time with them? How do I be more present? And to me, that's just really what it is is how do we continue to just help that younger generation? And I was doing nonprofit work with youth development before I ever had kids. I was in my old high school before I even had kids, you know, and it's because I understood my upbringing as a child and I would just want to make sure that others don't have to experience that,

[27:57]  you know, how can we help in that sense. So, yeah, maybe that is what I'll be doing for the rest of my life is just making sure that other kids don't have to experience what I've experienced. Who knows? But now you got me thinking now now for the rest of the day, the rest of the weekend. Um, I love this conversation and we we'll have to wrap up soon, but I ask, what's that one story that changed your perspective forever? I know you told us your story, but maybe a story that you've seen about a patient that you've come across that might change ours, too.

[28:26]  Gosh, there's so many. I think that when I started this job, I thought that I would primarily be working with grateful patients. patients where everything went right and the outcome was fantastic kind of like mine. Um, and boy, they had an opportunity to give back in some way and they they wanted to. And what I have come to realize is the gratitude that people have when they just know that you've done everything that you possibly can for them. And so I could think of a lot of stories, but the one that comes to mind right now is I'll call him the Snickers man. Snickers like the candy. He clearly has a name, but um he was in our hospital and was on paliotative care. Um and then that transitioned into hospice care and he had been in and out, in and out, in and out, in and out. And um was kind of, you know, understandably not in the greatest space sometimes, but he loved Snickers. And so, um the nurses found that out and they would come in with, you know, clown noses on and little funsized Snickers and try and brighten his day. Um, and when he was getting very close to passing, um, and could no longer eat a Snickers, they would melt Snickers for him and put it on his lip, um, in order to

[29:48]  still make him feel like him. Um, and that to me is the beauty of the work that we do and the people that we do it with and why I'm so proud to call my colleagues my colleagues because they see people. Um, and in this world I believe if we saw each other more instead of trying to figure out how we're different but focused on how we're the same. Um, boy, it be a better place.

[30:16]  That was good. No, I I love to hear these stories. I'm not a person that should be in healthcare because I will pass out if I see certain things. Um

[30:25]  I'm not everyone can rest easy. I'm not taking care of them. So

[30:29]  Lord, uh but you know when I I hear the work that um people give their lives to is truly amazing. And I hear those stories and I was I hear I talk to individuals in hospice and um you know just hear the excitement of how people are happy to help people.

[30:45]  That doesn't happen often, right? that people are just happy to help people and it's almost weird when you're out in the streets and someone is trying to help you. You automatically think what do they want from me?

[30:54]  But it should be normalized. So I I love that you share that story and hope that people, you know, kind of resonate with something like that and realize we just got to be there for each other, you know.

[31:03]  Sure do. At all times.

[31:05]  If you can go back, this is your blind question. I had to kind of incorporate it to

[31:08]  Okay.

[31:09]  to you. Uh, if you could go back to that moment in the fertility journey when you felt most alone, what would you whisper to that version of you now from where you stand today? It's going to be okay and you have everything that you need to handle this situation. I think I have spent uh as a person and a leader um far too long looking for other people's validation. Um and it has you know it's it's the journey of a life to realize that you have what you need to handle whatever infertility, whatever the the health journey is. Um, and that if you can relinquish the need to control and the need to know, um, and just be present, um, you're going to make it through just fine. I would have been okay. I I certainly am over the moon, right, to be a mom to three, but I would have been okay no matter what.

[32:16]  That's so strong. Oh my god, Tracy. Um, I appreciate that. That was that was really good. I know that took a lot. So I ask you now, what is your blind question to the next leader?

[32:26]  So mine's going to go a a different direction. This is something that my daughter and I uh have been talking about lately, but I do think right if you if you really think about it, it does tell you something about yourself. So you are going to get a tattoo. It's not whether or not you want one. You're going to the tattoo parlor.

[32:45]  What are you getting?

[32:46]  Oh my god, that's good.

[32:47]  And what does it represent to you?

[32:50]  So good. So, I'm going to share mine since you said that. Okay. I was I was one of those young kids that um I remember going to the tattoo shop with one of my friends and back then it was like the stars were everything.

[33:01]  I went there, it got really late, so I didn't get the stars. So, then I went again to get his tattoo, right? However, the guy wasn't there. And I and this time around, I wanted the praying hands, you know, with the rosary on the praying hands and all these different things, things that you see on a normal. So, finally, years later, I go and I start a nonprofit. So, I had a logo to a nonprofit that really stood for life in full effect. And that's just how I looked at my life. So, let me show you here. So, it's a a bulb like it's a little it's a logo probably the first original logo, but there's a story behind it. I'm so happy that I I actually got the story. So, the book stands for all the knowledge that I've experienced in life. The bulb is for my bright future. The tree is obviously the start of life. And then I never got it done. But the whole arm is supposed to be like, you know, the roots and everything that got me here. Adoption, sexual abuse. Now that I have kids, you know, adding a rose cuz my middle my my little daughter, her name is middle name is Rose. So things that really incorporate family. So to me, I'm so happy that as a young kid, I never got those tattoos everybody else was getting. But instead, I can actually tell the story of what my tattoo looks like. Cuz people always ask, "What what is that, right? It just looks hella random." It is. It's me, you know? It it tells a story. And I one day maybe I'll finish it. I I could care less if I never finish it. But I'm happy that I did get a tattoo and that it meant something and I never really regret it because I realized it was the start of life for myself. I was going through so much as a young kid and and and Tracy, you kind of, you know, kind of spoke about it is looking for validation in others, you know, and um because of my my life and my upbringing and realizing I don't need validation. I just need I just need to continue to walk with confidence. I need to and especially now as a father it's like listen just do it you know just do the best you can with what you have and I that's something that um I was talking to and I we're kind of completely going off topic here but I was talking to a friend and her situation was she's trying to actually build more of a life for herself because she felt she was like mom was always a part of it and I'm 35 years old now and I'm trying to build a better relationship with my mom because growing up I didn't have that you know And because life was lifen and she was doing the best of what she could at that moment

[35:17]  that there was times where I was afraid to ask her a question cuz I didn't know what the retaliation was. You know, being sexually abused and adopted, you know, you don't talk about these things. These are things that you we just kind of live with in a sense. So all these different things and it's just crazy to know that some people are saying, "No, I trying to live a life for myself." And I'm like, I'm just trying to have a relationship with my mom knowing that the end of life for us could be at any time. And you know, I never wanted to I I used to have resentment and um I don't even know how we got this conversation, but I used to have resentment, but now realizing that it's not about us, you know, let my kids have their relationship with grandma and what that actually looks like, you know, and putting that pride aside, the ego aside. Um so I just I don't know, you you kind of just mentioned something that was like, man, that's so good. We we always look for this someone to tell us we're doing good or that you know, you did this right. It's like just just do it because you love it because

[36:05]  right

[36:06]  passion because of purpose right

[36:08]  um so I appreciate you I love your blind question what is your socials if if people wanted to know more about the the school if they wanted to know more about the nonprofit or maybe they just want to connect with you l with Tracy on LinkedIn what is that information

[36:20]  so I'm at Tracy Madden McMahon on LinkedIn um methodist hospitalfoundation.org or um I will say uh you know I have a lovehate relationship with social media. Sometimes it is entirely too much and I have to take a pause and check myself out. Um but certainly you know anything that can be shared with your listeners, anything that we can learn from each other. Um more than happy to be able to continue on the journey, right? We're learning from each other every step of the way.

[36:52]  I love it. Well guys, don't forget the system may feel too big to change, but one story shared at the right time can literally shift everything. And Tracy, thank you so much for the stories and for everything that you shared with us today. Guys, if you guys are still watching, another way to support is always to like, comment, and subscribe. Doesn't cost you anything, but allows people to really see other leaders that are just being authentically themselves, that they're doing what they're doing. Not so much, I always say this, not so much for a paycheck, but truly because of a purpose and a passion and the experiences that we have in our lives that lead us back to these places so we can help somebody else kind of overcome adversity. So, thank you Tracy for great conversation. My name is Ephrain. This has been the Heart and Hustle Podcast. We'll catch you guys on the next one. Fight us.