From Detroit Streets to LA Boardroom: Lena Wilson's Shocking Child Welfare Truth

[0:16]  Welcome back to another episode here on the Hard and Hustle Podcast. Our next guest from Detroit to LA, Lena Wilson's 35-year journey has been breaking barriers in child welfare and building systematic change. So I ask you, Lena, first of all, welcome, but what made you stay in this work when everything around you said run?

[0:34]  Um, first of all, thank you. Thank you for having me here. Staying in this work, it's it's a calling. It's my heart. Um, I started off as a youth specialist. I want to say when I was like 19, 18, 19 years old. And I remember having this one kid. He I will never forget this kid. I worked midnight shift. Every morning he woke up. He'd run to me, give me the biggest hug, and tell me how much he loved me. and he was so happy to see me here. And all I could think is is how is this precious little child in this system and not getting that same love and energy back. And so it just really forced me to find this journey of how I can make this change, how how this little boy can get the love and the family that he needs and he desires. And that's that sparked my desire to work in this field. And no looking back, there's still little boys out there and little girls out there that still need this. And so I got to keep going, got to keep pushing.

[1:28]  I love that. I remember you telling me that. I think it was a 5-year-old little boy if I'm not mistaken. But what does he teach you about love and resilience at that moment?

[1:35]  He taught me that it was no matter what he was going through, and he was going through a lot. He'd suffered a lot of trauma, a lot of abuse, and a lot of neglect. He still had the capacity to love, right? And he still had the capacity.

[1:47]  And in some ways, you saw hope. You saw hope from him. You know, he was still hoping to get adopted. He was still hoping to have a family. and with everything that he'd been through to still have that resilience and that hope um it's a life lesson to us all. I mean it's just a lesson.

[2:04]  And you also mentioned Peter's lullabi and why does it still haunt the system? Matter of fact, let's talk about Peter's letter for people that may not know. And then yeah, let us know why does it still haunt the system? So, Peter's Lullabi was written by um a woman who actually, she's passed on now, had a a organization called Big Family at one time. And her and her brother were in the system. And so what happened was they were being abused, neglected, and they were chained at one point into a bathroom. And she only knew her brother was alive because he could hear she could hear him singing. And so that's how they she knew that he was still alive. At some point, unfortunately, the singing stopped. So, she came to us and she did uh a presentation and her presentation was she had a cup full of water and she said every single time she moved she poked a hole in the cup and everything that everything that she had inside of her was kind of just left and leaking out. And so I remember being a social worker and going, "Wow, how many kids have I moved and has that been the effect that I've had on them?" And so that was a a kind of a a revelation that at some point you think you're just trying to do good, but are you doing more harm than good? Um, and Jeannie Fowler was the one that that wrote the book and she was just had a very moving big heart and she was determined to change the system that ended up taking her brother away from her.

[3:24]  Yes. It's it's it's tough. I think I told you, you know, I've heard stories. I mean, I'm adopted, so kind of understanding what that really lives looks like. And now being a father, I tell my wife, and she's like, "Why would you even say this?" But I tell my wife, "I could never imagine leaving my kids." And she's like, "Why do you say that? I'm just because it happened to me, you know, that's why I say that because I just don't I it doesn't make sense to me." But in reality, I I do realize there's so many um people go through so many mental issues, you know, and they're fighting so many demons. And um what do you think when we talking about these young kids are or what do we think about those parents that have also struggling and dealing with things because we've been in a space where mental health has not really been the forefront of our conversation until the pandemic time and now we got young kids talking about mental health which is great but also kind of go into the you know our adults. What is your thoughts on it?

[4:18]  I think it's a great time. I am happy to see mental health at the forefront especially for children you know. Um, I remember, you know, those things that children weren't given the space in the room to have their own emotional health and needs. They were just kind of supposed to, lack of a better word, suck it up and move. How how can a child's life be that bad? How can you as a child have mental health issues and and need, you know, that kind of support? Um but then that gets into this generational um place where you perpetuate that same misinformation that as a child you don't have mental health needs. And then if you grow up not realizing that they're real and that they need to be addressed, you then as an adult can't conceptualize that it's real, that it actually needs to be addressed and you pass that on to your children. Um, I think the pandemic for the good and the bad did allow us to bring it at the forefront, but there's still so much work to be done. So much work to be done.

[5:18]  No. Yeah, I do agree. And you know, something that you just mentioned, um, was I heard a a mother, her young kid was saying, um, I just feel like I have anxiety or, you know, and kind of to what you said, the mom easily saying, what do you mean? You you don't even know what anxiety is. But this is someone sharing their feelings to the parent that is experiencing this and overlooking you know someone's feelings because that's exactly what the feelings are. What is your message to those individuals?

[5:46]  So my message to them is it's it's very interesting as adults you know we have sick days. We have days where we just can't show up for either we just don't feel like showing up for work or we don't feel like showing up for co-workers and sometimes we don't show up for want to show up for family because we've just are overwhelmed and overcapacitated capacitated. Our kids are the same way. I mean, the stressors that go on every day. And I used to give my kids mental health days when they wake up and like, "Today, mom, I just can't, you know, do it right." It's the same pressure. It's just at a different level. And their young minds don't know how to conceptual and can't easily or or deal with it as we can or even know what label to put on it. They don't know it's anxiety, but they know they're feeling this thing inside of them that gives them this antsiness and and they're scared and that they know those feelings, but they don't have proper names for it. And so that's why we need to be there as adults to help our kids identify those feelings and readily talk about them because the more that they can talk about them and identify them, the more they'll be able to conceptualize and and know how to deal with it. Um, I always just thought it was amazing that we as parents don't understand that. Like our kids go to school, there's tests, there's bullies at school, there's pressures every day, you know, trying to be the best in class and get to college. That weighs on you, right? And they need space sometimes to just take a break. And there's nothing wrong with that. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that cuz just like we need to take a break, they need to have a space to take a break as well

[7:10]  cuz then you would never understand your time and your worth.

[7:13]  No.

[7:14]  Right.

[7:14]  Right. I I sit here you you just mentioned that um really reminds me of my mom was like go to school on sick day on a non-sick day on a rainy day like this is me still having to walk to the bus stop. it didn't matter like I was going to go to school, you know, and it's cuz she had to go to work and you know there all these kids but when I sit here and think about it yeah and life was happening you know I'm going through still sexual abuse I'm going through adoptions the unknowns the wise never seeing seeking a therapist in these moments even though I had all these thoughts and questions right and it is very it's a lot of pressure it's a lot of stress and it's not for everybody it it breaks people you know a lot it it puts people sometimes leaves people in that certain spot um because they just don't know how to move forward I love that kind of tapped into it because it's so huge. I I know we mentioned a little earlier um starting off that you're in the child welfare and building systems uh systematic change, but talk about the organization you're with. I wanted people to know the organization, some of these services you guys you offer. So, just in case people want to know where is Lena from, what is she doing?

[8:12]  So, I'm from Vista Delmare Child and Family Services and we're in LA, West LA, 18 acre campus. Um, and it's I always say it's easier to say what we don't do than it what we do because we do a little bit of everything. So, we do foster care, we do adoption, we do prevention, we have a non-public school and those are for kiddos and and youth that need extra care and support going through the educational system. We have three residential treatment centers. Um,

[8:38]  those work with kids. A lot of our kids in our residential treatment centers um actually deal with C-section behaviors and co-occurring substance use and mental health disorders. We actually run a SESAC program for youth and we have a mobile crisis outreach team along with outpatient services. Um we also work with unaccompanied minors in one of our programs as well.

[8:59]  You ain't lying when you say a little bit of everything.

[9:01]  A little bit of everything. Full system trying to build a full system of care. Right now we're about to focus then open up a new substance use disorder program outpatient services for kids. there's not a lot of institutions that understand co-occurring mental health and substance use disorders in children specifically in youth. Um and then we're also expanding our work in the autism center and autism world.

[9:22]  Right. And you know another interesting thing I remember about talking to you Lena is that you um said you needed to go to law school because you needed more tools like

[9:32]  Yes.

[9:33]  when and where how did you even have time? So, believe it or not, um, as a social worker, I spent a lot of time in court. Um, and I was in, uh, Detroit at the time. So, I spent a lot of time in Wayne County Juvenile Court. And I realized being in the court system and working with families that that was the one area where families you could come in as a whole family and leave not having your family at all. Because there's this thing that the United States has called termination of parental rights.

[10:02]  And that terminates your rights from just not your parents but from your entire family. You're no longer related to your entire family. So that means if you have a grandmother, she actually has to legally adopt you. Sisters, brothers, all of that. You can lose that in the legal system. And what I was finding, even though I was a case manager for youth, I was still finding the families would go in and they had no idea what their rights. Typical thing was, here's the allegations, plead no contest. You pled no contest. You still, your kids still came into foster care. You didn't get a jury trial. You didn't, you just went to inform a judge. Your attorney only saw you when you came in to hear your hearing and when he left. That told me um how important understand the legal system is in the child welfare and in human services because law the laws guide all of us in this process. There's laws for everything. The court system is heavily involved. And so I made it my mission at that point that I needed to make sure I was fully informed of the law and what that meant and to make sure my families I could advocate. There's two ways. advocate is one, you know, legally advocate and make sure I could pass on that knowledge to the families. Um, so because they deserve the best representation. And so in the middle of being a case manager and actually having that was my Maya was born my last year of law school. I actually went to law school and graduated law school.

[11:24]  Wow. I mean, that really goes to show I know people probably get tired. I say this every um episode, but truly where it says you're not in it for the paycheck, you're in it for the purpose,

[11:35]  you know, and for you it's Yeah, there were some challenging times. You mentioned, you know, being was that was your first child or

[11:41]  that was my first child. So, yeah, I was pregnant my last year. Uh and it was very interesting. I look back and I talk, you know, my parents are both deceased, but both my parents are older when I was born. And so, I had parents I was trying to take care of, a child, a baby on the way, and I'm in the middle of law school and working full-time. And I look back now, I was like, I don't even know how this happened, but God, that's all I can say.

[12:02]  That's it.

[12:03]  I can just say, but God, because it it makes no sense, but it happened. And you know,

[12:09]  but you know what? That's usually what purpose looks like. It doesn't make any sense. You know, I was talking to another leader yesterday and she mentioned like, I was in the healthcare business, nowhere near nonprofit. I get a random phone call. All of a sudden, they were like, "Hey, we would love you to go run this organization." She's like, "Do you even know who I am and what I do?" Like, what do you mean? that's not my and now she's 15 years in this organization. She she you know she's like whatever I'll just go to this meeting and she said she sat in this room with a whole bunch of other people and they're asking her questions like I have no idea. But she said two what should have only had been 15 minutes becomes a two and a half hour conversation and realizing that oh my god like maybe I actually know more of this and love this more than I know and some people won't know until they do it. So kudos to you for actually doing it but also understanding what you what you were doing it for right what the mission was at the end of it all. I think that that story is really similar to mine. I um like I said, I'm from Michigan. So, when this opportunity interview came up, I was like, "Okay, what's the likelihood?" First of all, it's a Jewish It's a historically Jewish organization, been around for 116 years. What's the likelihood they're going to hire a black woman from Michigan to come run a historically Jewish organization in LA, right? And it was that conversation where, you know, I was very honest with the organization I was when I was interviewing and and talking about the strengths and sustainability. Sustainability was a big thing and just, you know, was really saying if it's even if it's not me, here's where I think you should go. And I think that was very much the reason why I ended up, you know, kind of getting this position because it was just sharing the knowledge that I knew just in general, whether I'm in Michigan or in LA, this is what sustainability looks like for an organization of your size and your breath and and the work and the the the magnitude and the impact that you've had, you know, um, in LA. So, this is what I I need you to do to stay around so you can continue to do that work. But it was amazing.

[13:58]  You left Detroit to go to LA to Did you have the kids already?

[14:02]  So, yes. So the kids Yeah. The kids ended up coming Yeah. with me, right? I been

[14:07]  um risk taker.

[14:08]  I said I I always tell this story and I say the same thing. I came at the perfect time. First CEO position, right? 2019 uh June in 2019. I had all these plans. First thing, we got here in a month. There was two earthquakes. Something I'd never had before in my entire life. And then March of 2020, the world shuts down for like two years. And so I'm navigating this new space with a pandemic with kids that live on our campus, like the highest intense residential setting, and just trying to make sure I keep the kids and the staff alive. And I was like, "Thanks, God. I appreciate this this learning opportunity. I really appreciate it."

[14:46]  And LA was intense during time.

[14:49]  LA was intense. LA was very intense. I had a friend and and he would just tell me like the LA stories and in Florida you would have thought we'd even have co the way that we were operating. I'm pretty sure everybody in the world is looking at Florida like what the hell you got.

[15:04]  What is wrong? What is wrong? But yeah, LA was intense. I think you know I mean LA has 10 million people, right? So you had to think differently about how close contact that you are and what does that look like for 10 million people. I will say it was the best time on 405 that I ever had because I could get anywhere that way in like 10 minutes.

[15:23]  I can only imagine.

[15:24]  I can imagine. Alina, like you said, you taking on the role of CEO. Um, what did you learn? You know, because I'm pretty sure you you added leadership as you were entering, but I'm pretty sure there was also some things that you had to learn, right? You said this is your first uh CEO job. So, what are you learning now as a CEO in this space?

[15:43]  Um,

[15:43]  and and not only that, you're a woman of color. you mentioned, you know, you're taking over, you're in a a a kind of a community or an organization that probably you may be the only one. Maybe there's a few of you. So, I can only imagine there were some challenges. What What are you learning through all these, you know, experiences at once?

[16:01]  Um, the first thing I think you have to learn is faith and confidence in yourself. Not in a I want to say not in a cocky way like you know it all, but you need to I had to learn how to get over what's called like the imposttor syndrome. like that worried about how am I presenting? Am I speaking eloquently enough? You know, do do I um have the right tools in my tool belt? They hired you for a reason. You and getting over that imposttor syndrome and just really having faith and confidence in what you know. And then if there's something you don't know, giving yourself grace and space to know that it's fine to learn and it's fine to seek out knowledge additionally as you're in this space, right? Um, and then learning that there's no matter what you do and decisions you make, there's unrealistic expectations that are always going to flow around you. And you've just got to get yourself in a headsp space that this is the course of action. This is what I feel I'm doing it for. I feel this is the right reason. This is the judgment that I'm making and I need to be forward. There's going to be people happy. There's going to be people unhappy. Um, and just have faith that you're making those decisions. Um, and be a good collaborator, right? I I you can't do this by yourself, right? You need I have there's 460 staff at in my organization and they are truly the stars because I could not care for all the children and families by myself personally without them there. Um, and realizing they're such my staff are so valuable and never ever underestimating staff's value and and always coming from a place of

[17:33]  of care and compassion for staff and those that we work for and just showing up every day and what does that look like? You know what? I have an idea of what compassion looks like. They might have a different idea of what compassion and caring looks like, but trying to show up every day and give them what they need in the form of what it looks like and knowing, you know, you're going to stumble. You're going to make mistakes and it's okay to say, "Oops, my bad. I made a mistake." And and being comfortable with that. There's a sense of vulnerability that you have to learn to get used to as a leader that I think it's helpful. It's authentic, showing up with your authentic self. Um, and I think that's really what I've learned. I've learned how to show up with my authentic self, what vulnerability and leadership looks like. Um, and then still having confidence in my my decisions and bringing people along so they can see the vision because without people seeing your vision, you know, you're in that by yourself. So, that's really what I've learned.

[18:25]  Hey, real quick. Have you enjoying the podcast? We first want to say thank you and we also just want to give you a little insight of what we're up to at Francis. Some don't even realize that we're working with organizations to help them use AI to create that real human communication experiences where that's actually supporting your your families, those patients or the entire community. We're actually creating tech that connects. Check it out. Francis.ai. We could break this down a lot and I really want to sit here almost from a selfish perspective and and really ask some questions. Right. So you mentioned um the imposter syndrome, the mindset, the having to overcome the confidence. A lot of times it's so hard and I'm always a big believer because I am in the space of coaching and consulting that that's like the thing. Go find you someone that can help you um or find a good mentor, you know, or find a good uh maybe another CEO that you you know, a good friend. What is your thoughts on it? Because I can imagine you're going through this. It wasn't that you did it alone or or did you? No, I I quickly realized first of all, you know, California, Michigan were so different in their systems like just the system, the government and county being a county ran system and state that's huge. It's so different. And so I did luckily you know there were other CEOs I there was two other fe women CEOs females that had two newly got promoted to the role and there was another CEO also woman who'd been in the in as a CEO for a very long time and just the outreach that and the embracing and um

[19:55]  I love that

[19:56]  the ability to ask questions and to call up someone and say okay this just came down what are what are you doing about this

[20:04]  uh is invaluable. and we still do it today. I mean, there's been a lot of um recent orders that have come out that has affected all of us as an or as all of our organizations in the way in which we do business. And we've all had to at some point, you know, for a while we were having 6:30 either crying sessions or this is how we're going to handle it sessions all on the phone.

[20:27]  Are these the girls you went to with Paris? To Paris?

[20:30]  Pardon? No.

[20:31]  Are these the girls?

[20:32]  No, no, no, no, no. Um,

[20:33]  about say that's why y'all went to Paris because it was it was enough crying. Let me get some wine.

[20:37]  Yeah. So, um, no. So, we and and uh it's so funny. The poor there's one poor guy in our group. He's actually probably pretty lucky. His name is Jay. And Jay is just always along for our rides and he's just always happy to be hanging out with us. I think there's like six women in Jay and we're like, Jay, we don't know how you got here, but we're happy you're here. Um, but that kind of connection, um, I will never forget. I will never forget that I had a leader who was in the role, uh, professional, had been in the role, and reached out to support me. Um, and you could say, you know, we're two totally different organizations. We're, you could say we're competitors, but we're not, right? We're all in this work. We're trying to do it for the right reason.

[21:18]  And for someone to come out and and embrace you in that way and give you their time and their support and their energy, I've got to pass that along. You know, I'm going to I'm going to pay that forward. um it's our responsibility to pay it forward.

[21:33]  A couple of things on that is woman empowerment, right? Like this is not woman knocking down women. You see that often. It's how do we continue to it it doesn't happen often that you see a woman at the head of the table? Why not more of that? And how do we get more of that? So we you guys got to come together as women to make sure that you guys are knocking down these barriers. And clearly you guys are doing it. Um you know, kudos to her or whoever it was that reached out to her putting the pride aside. As you mentioned, we're not competition. is how do we continue to make bigger impact? Sometimes it's collaboration. It's being able to share each other's visions and figure out what works for you, what works here. Let's go ahead and see if how we can merge or how we can incorporate some of these things. So, I I definitely do love that. But also on the other side of things as you're in that CEO role because I find myself in a unique space where I'm president of an organization, but now I'm also seeing everyone want to come and and drop, you know, ideas, their visions. Oh, I can help you here. here. I don't want to be part of the board, but maybe like a strategic advisor or I could give you five hours of my time, but this is what I charge. So, I'm pretty sure you're probably still experiencing. What do you say to leaders that are overwhelmed with that outside noise? Not just so much everyone pouring into them, but also the outside is trying to sometimes steer in the wrong way.

[22:42]  So, that's a very good point that you make. Um, you have to have a certain level of discernment, right? So the what I found most often is people that are authentically in my corner and ingenuine. It doesn't come with any strings attached. It comes with a very simple, oh, reach out to me if you need me anytime. I'm here for you. You follow up that that offer and they are there. They show up when they said they were going to show up. Um they help above and beyond and they even check back in with you. There isn't I only have five hours. There isn't, you know, I'm going to charge you $25. There isn't any of that. just true authentic, selfless giving to another individual and in another space. Um, and that's what you need. You need that one-on-one interaction that's authentic, human to human, right? And then there's groups out there. If you want to join a a CEO group or a leadership group, then you do that. But you know what it's you know what you're going to get out of it and what it's worth, right? But you always have to have that one for real. I call it that one for real person. you know, two if you have two for real people, that's even better. That that one for real pe person that it's it's not about the money. It's not about, you know, what they can get out of you or the organization. It's just true authentic partnership and just the most humanistic basic level kind of way. Um,

[24:03]  and and it's you it's you know, you give that back to them. In the end, you might you might feel like you're taking a lot from this person, but in the end, as you progress, this person is also going to come to you and like, "Hey, I have this new situation. I would really love to get your take on it. What do you think?" And that's true. That's true partnership and that's what you should look for all the time.

[24:22]  I love that. Yes, I do agree. We need that that person that is very just

[24:27]  they're pouring and they're not here to take,

[24:29]  right? They just see they see the vision or they uh respect you enough to say, "Hey, I love where you're going. I love what you're doing. How can I be of of use?" You know, um sometimes is not being a board member. So, like I mentioned, I do have one person that when I started, he was an alumni like myself. I seen his vision. Never ask for anything. It's how how do we pour into you? Yeah. I don't have time to be on the board, but I'm here to, you know, strategically if you need me in the back pocket. But then when I had someone else, I had to really think to myself and I think sometimes we have to be very mindful, you know, of our space because sometimes it could be those that are also trying to take us down.

[25:07]  Yes. You know.

[25:08]  Yes.

[25:08]  So,

[25:09]  yes, you have to be careful of what,

[25:11]  you know, what kind of energy people pull out of you at that time. And people that only pull and never pour back in, that that's not a good sign, right? That's just not a good sign. That's not a that's not a true authentic relationship. And you know because you have we go through so much and you have such limited capacity when you're going I mean you have a family of kids and everybody you need to give a portion of yourself to all of those right and you got to be careful about what you outlay to others that aren't

[25:41]  going to help you move forward in that journey. I I I I felt that this organization made a great choice when they hired Lena because I just I can tell by just having this conversation and I know you had to work twice as as good, speak probably twice as clearly just to be heard. How do you how do you keep showing up? You know, how do you lead authentically when the room doesn't even reflect you?

[26:04]  I have to remember my purpose, right? I'm not here I'm I can say, "Yay, I'm a leader. This is why I'm here." But I my purpose is to make this world a better place than when I found it. My purpose here is to make sure children and families have access to services and that they have the opportunities that they need to to thrive and and move forward. So when you look back and you step back and you realize what your purpose is and that it's no longer about you, um you can look around that room, but you know what your true purpose is. And no matter who's in that room, you're going to show up every day to make sure your purpose and your your journey is fulfilled because it's about others. And um I want one day, you know, another Lena to not have to go through all these things, but just gets to show up and and doesn't have to have, you know, this kind of imposttor syndrome because we've educated ourselves enough, made enough, went through enough barriers to know that you are enough. Um, and just I say just remembering my why and my purpose and it just every just makes it easier to show up.

[27:12]  And what do you say to that young Lena? You mentioned, you know, that next young leader. What do you say to that next, you know, Lena, woman of color stepping into leadership that um you've clearly would pave the way for her, but she might experience some of these things as well?

[27:27]  I would say um one, the first thing is always remember your why. And it always has to be I I always think something greater than yourself is the most powerful tool that you can have because it's um it allows you to extend yourself and know that there's something greater out there than you and that's what you're working toward. Right? So that's the first thing I would say to her.

[27:49]  I would say don't be discouraged. You um failure is fine. Don't be don't be I say the biggest thing is don't be scared of failure. I mean, I think that's what we all are get hang us all up all the time. What if I'm not good enough? Or what if I don't do this right? Or what if I what if I mess up? That's okay.

[28:06]  Back to that syndrome.

[28:07]  Yeah. Right. If you mess up, you mess up. Get yourself back up. Say, "Oops, I messed up." And and move along. Um because that's life. You're going to fall down. You're going to mess up. And give yourself space and grace to do that, right? And learn from your mistakes. Like, "Okay, this wasn't the best idea this time around. I probably should have done something different." But don't let that deter you from still moving forward and trying something new. Um, I would say that's the biggest biggest thing. And and surround yourself with good people. Surround yourself with with good people. Um, and a good support system because you need that,

[28:42]  right?

[28:44]  I'll tell you, Lena, people always ask like thinking about where my, you know, background was and how I grew up. I always thank the friends that were in my corner because, you know, I was always authentically me and they loved me for who I was, the good and the bad, and always wanted sometimes even seen better in me than I seen in myself. Like, how cool it is hell. I think that's really what I loved about my wife is that she's seen in me more than I've seen in myself at a young 20-year-old that you framed, right? She seen the potential. She was speaking the potential. She was praying on this potential that I she knew I had. So, um I I I do agree is finding people that are like-minded, not these yes men, not the people that are just there for the money, uh for, you know, the clout. Really, someone there because they truly see um what you want to do and they want to be a part of that. And how do we help you get there? I think it's so so important.

[29:29]  And I think, you know, your other point, don't have a yes man. You need that friend too that's going to say, you know, you way out of pocket. Are you okay? Like like that was I don't know what happened right then, but I need to do that. You need that person that's honest with you, right? And it takes a special kind of friend. Like when I when I did my trip was when we went to Italy, it was with a friend that I've known for like 30 years. Like our kids grew up together, another friend that I knew for 15 years. And you know, we're traveling around and we can we have the ability to say like you woke up on the wrong side of bed. You need to like chill.

[30:01]  That's a good friend.

[30:03]  Like what is wrong with you today? Right. And then pick it back up and still go, you know, continue with your vacation and still love each other. It's fine. But you you need that's a real friendship. You need that friend is like, "Nah, you're way off on that one."

[30:18]  I was trying to listen this to another friend of mine um called Chatt DBT. Matter of fact, it was my co-chef yesterday. I had a I had to cook a brisket. My wife told me, you know, every month we go and do meat shopping. So, she says, "Hey, pick the meats." And um as a young kid, I used to eat corn beef and white rice. So, I seen a corn beef and that's the first thing I seen is, "Oh, corn beef. Pick it up." It was a corn beef brisket. So, uh, brisketss take forever to cook.

[30:42]  Slow cooking. Slow.

[30:44]  So, it took nine hours.

[30:46]  My wife was like, um, it's it's your responsibility. So, I'm sitting here and chat tped throughout the whole thing, taking pictures of it. What does it look like? Did I season it well? Okay, cool. It do I? And, um, I'm a big believer that in a space that we're in of of, you know, nonprofits and organization helping others that we want to do more of the things that we love and less of the things that we hate. things that we hate admin repetitive task right that just takes too much time

[31:11]  um and a lot of organizations either fall behind they're in line or they're pushing it forward where do you guys kind of fall in line on the spectrum are you guys seeing AI as a beneficial to the organization especially with all these different programs and services

[31:23]  so it's really interesting that you say that AI is now coming into what we have the department of mental health here um and it's coming into the form of making sure you're using the correct language language that will, for lack of a word, make sure that your services you're providing is available. Right? There's very there's key words that you can use and that you can't use. And so they're using it more as a correction tool and saying, "Make sure that I've used all the proper language in this case note." Um, that's still very individualized, but it's also something that fits the note or fits the the billable service aspect as the rules and procedures apply under we have health here, Cal AIM. Um, I think too we're using it um kind of in a different way where you're looking at your financial tools and saying, you know, this took five people and eight spreadsheets. Can I put this PowerBI is one of the things that I'm a big fan of. Can I put this in PowerBI and make these wonderful dashboards and reports that I can visually see and that can drive my strategic vision, right? Those kind of things are important. Um, so we are using it very carefully though. Um I I want to make sure that you are are not um doing anyone disservice, you know, by I'm very much you can't like I don't know if you've seen lately there's been attorneys that have been trying to j chat GBT like their entire case law and it's like not working out so well for them. So there needs to be some actual human interaction and research going on with that. Right. I do appreciate it that we're to take eight eight minutes to write a note. now you can do it in five minutes or it takes those tasks that were 20 minutes or 30 minutes and it cuts them down to 15 because that's just more client time. That's more time that you can spend actually doing those things with clients and doing the one-on-one personal personal work. So, you're seeing it you're seeing it coming into this space, right? And and for all of it has its great moments. It has some little scary things that are going on too, right? Um I I'm not envying the task of any teacher now that has to figure out whether that student actually wrote that paper or chat GBTE. Don't even want to have to have that burden.

[33:37]  You know what's crazy is that at the school level they're at least here in um Central Florida, they blocked chat DPT from the schools. So when I was trying to ask one of the um administrators, why don't you y'all use chat DBT and it's because it's blocked in the school. And I'm like you telling me a kid is not going home to use chat dbt? Like le let's be honest. We're they're they're in a generation now where that's their go-to. You know, I even seen I was actually talking to another leader that she said I asked her the same question. Are you using chat DPT? And she says um I am. My daughter's teaching me my daughter uses it for therapy. Like when you think of what kids are actually using it for and how they're using it. It's like when they told us we'll never carry a calculator in our pockets, but now we have a calculator in our pockets.

[34:22]  Correct. We do have a computer in our pocket now that you say that. Um, but just to think about it, AI is already on your phone, too. You can sit here and talk to AI on your phone. So, you don't really need to go to chatbt. But I I do love, as you mentioned, the things I actually wrote it down. Did you say powered ba?

[34:38]  PowerBI. Um,

[34:40]  PowerBI. I'm going to look that up.

[34:41]  Look that up. It is a beautiful way in which you can throw in information and data and it can give you the best synopsis and pictures and graphs and visualize and tell you everything that you need to know. I look at I was doing it with we have some assessment tools and I wanted to know what our client progress looks like and you know those kind of things based on if they show up to therapy are they making more progress than those that call out like what is the ratio of progress to those that show up versus and their scores and it spit out this most beautiful colorized thing that told me all the information that I needed to know about the best outcomes, the days of the week, the therapists, all all of that stuff in like one look, right? And so it's just a powerful tool and you can make some good decisions based on that.

[35:32]  I'm so happy that you keep saying powerful tool because so many people, as we mentioned a little earlier, they live in fear when it comes to change. Um it's a little, you know, discomforting when you have to you've been doing the same thing over and over and now you have to kind of make that transition, but it's there. The way that we transition to uh a computer, right, to internet,

[35:51]  remember AOL days? the no and now all of a sudden we can just log in. Um, and then we transition to social media when people thought that was going to be the end of the world and XYZ and of course there's still some bad in it, but there's also some good. You're seeing so many people be able to to monetize because of the creativeness. Um, organizations like like yours, Lena, that can now exist and have the same platform as one of the biggest organizations out there. Right. So, I love that we have almost the same playing field and I think that that's what ChatP does. you find, as you mentioned, the right the right AI tool. Everyone's in the space of AI and and and everyone's want to get a piece of the pie, but there's only those authentic ones that really care for what they're doing and wanting to see progress. So, I love that you say resource tool. A lot of people don't say that. Instead, they get scared when we use the word AI, but it's been around for years. You know, it

[36:41]  Oh, yeah. It's it's I mean, we call it predictive analytics at one point. We've called it a lot of different things. It's just more at the the forefront, right? everybody was doing predictive analytics that if you put this together with that together, you're probably going to get this outcome. Um, and now this is a different, you know, kind of a different way. You know, it's it's been out for a while. Let's just put it that way. And it is, you know, how you use it. You can it's like anything else. You can use it to to to do good or you can use it to harm. And, you know, you just have to make sure that you understand there's two sides of the coin. And, you know, make sure you're you're doing it for the right reasons. You know, trying to do the right things for the right reasons every day. and and you can use tools like that if that's your premise.

[37:19]  I love it. Uh what is your legacy that you're most proud of building Vista?

[37:24]  Oh my god, that's great. Um so I would say we are now an organization that has really moved from this has been around for likeund like I said overly 116 years. We are moving now from being a comfortable kind of ran like a mom and pop shop to understand our full breadth and depth of an organization and innovation, right? We're very comfortable doing the same things in the same way because that's what we knew. Um, and I see this level of excitement now with people when I say, you know, I would say we've added probably five new programs since I've been here in since 2019. And at first I was seeing this, you know, we don't do that. Oh my god, what is she doing? Um, and now people come up and like, I just saw this great opportunity. What do you think? Should we do this? I think we can do it. And a lot of it was just that they didn't see the belief in themselves that they could actually kind of pivot and do this. And seeing the excitement about innovation and always wanting to be a thought leader because that's where we are now. We were really I think from our historical perspective we were really quiet and kind of wanted to be kept the best known secret keep our heads down. I say now we're out there and we're like no we want to be a thought leader. We are at the forefront and just that change as us as an organization um has been great to see. Um and and just enjoyable. It's it's nice. I see excitement in staff and that's that's that's great.

[38:55]  That's always good. Yeah. That's always good. Um because if you don't have that it becomes even a little harder and you had to you got to work it like you mentioned this is six five six years in the making of really getting people on board to see your vision because at at times they they didn't see your vision and I'm always okay with that. It's not your vision to see but if you allow me to be the leader I'll f you know I'll lead us to where we at but I just need you guys on board. Um so and you've played that role.

[39:18]  I would say the biggest thing too is is helping organizations like ours and when you say talking about being in the space is financial acument is huge and no one wants to talk about it. Everyone's like, "Oh, you're making it like a business." Well, it is a business, unfortunately. I know you don't want to feel like you don't want it to feel like a business, but it is a business. And if you don't understand that, you won't be around for another 116 years. You've got to understand there's a business aspect. And there's a financial acumen that you have to know. And it doesn't mean you don't care about people. It doesn't mean you're trying to sacrifice people for the dollar. That's not it at all. You're just trying to be you have to be good stewards and and realize that so that you can continue to serve. And there's now a better level of understanding that. Like when I first got here, my people didn't see they didn't know, my VPs didn't know what a budget was. They like they're like, "You want me to do what?" I was like, "I need you to manage your budget." And so, and it was like things like overhead's real. Like, yes, overhead is a real thing and you need to understand that what overhead means and that it's real. Um, yeah.

[40:18]  And so, I finally, I mean, they're on that path now and now they're really like, "I know how much this is going to cost me. That's good that you say that because a lot of people don't realize yeah it's called nonprofit but people think there's no profit that there's no it is a complete business is really what it is. It's just are we we now have to still have government in between and then we have a little bit more restrictions and we got to you know kind of really follow this um almost policy out there right between the for-profit nonprofit may be a little bit different. So, and we go more instead of stakeholders, we have a whole, you know, board that we got to kind of

[40:54]  Yeah.

[40:55]  and the same tools that we need to be successful like, you know, we it's hard out there. I would say one of the things like for our IT cost, right? We're competing with four profits. So, it's you don't get oftent time you don't you're not going to get an IT, you know, director that's going to want to like I understand you're not for profofit so you don't have to pay me what the private sector is paying me out here. No, that you have to compete in that same way. And so it's it's interesting for people to understand that infrastructure, the infrastructure that it takes to run a not for-profit is the same amount of infrastructure that it's going to take to run a forprofit. And you've still got to find a way to fund that.

[41:31]  And and that hustle, that grit, the grind is still just like if you were starting your own business from nothing.

[41:37]  Exactly. Exactly. So it it's interesting.

[41:40]  Where can people find you, Lena, as we start to close it up and wrap it up? Where can people find you personally? Are you on LinkedIn? Um, and just also for the socials for the organization so people can take a look at what you guys are going on and maybe um, just kind of keep up if they're in the LA area.

[41:53]  So, yes. So, we are in on Instagram and Facebook. So, it's just vistadelmare.org. You look us up. We're there. I am on LinkedIn under Lena Wilson. Um, you can also find me at lena wilson vistadelmar.org. Um, first and last name. Um, and if you have any questions, you're out here, you want to come see the organization, please feel free. We had 18 acres, believe it or not. uh actually just built a a new theater

[42:18]  uh 299 seat theater because we're really big into the performing arts for our students and also now the community is using that too. New soccer fields for our kids in the community. So definitely come on out. And

[42:30]  so in LA is this I'm not a familiar too much with LA. I mean I've been to LA down you know Hollywood area. how far from that area downtown where everyone's doing the walk of you know the whole which I thought was more pretty by the way and then I realized it's just little stars on a rain sidewalk

[42:46]  you go yeah that's how I thought too I first came here I was like I'm going to Hollywood and I was like oh this is dirty oh my god so it's so funny you say how far it depends on the time of day right so if you're not in rush hour we're probably about a good

[43:05]  30 minutes from like the Hollywood Hollywood area. If you're in the Max back rush hour, we're probably good hour away everything and that's really funny. So, final story, I moved from Detroit, which you know, you talk in miles, it's like 5 miles, 5 minutes. That's what you talk about. There is no distance matters not here. So, I ended up driving to the valley, which is only 14 miles from work, but that means it was actually an hour and 15 minutes from work. I hear you. Um I don't live in Orlando no more, but and it's not as bad as as LA, but yeah, you could depending on the time. That always makes a difference. Depending if someone there was an accident on the highway, forget about it. Now it's 5:00 and there was an accident. I'm never getting home.

[43:50]  You're never getting home.

[43:52]  And we don't get rain here.

[43:54]  So people don't know how to drive in rain. So if it rains, it's just forget about it. Just like stay home.

[43:57]  Forget about it. Pull over.

[44:00]  No, I appreciate you. It's been such a great qu, you know, conversation. But I do have this last blind question. Are you excited and ready for it?

[44:06]  I'm excited and ready for it.

[44:08]  All right. If you can rewrite the child welfare uh welfare, why am I struggling here? The welfare system from scratch. What's the one rule you never include again?

[44:18]  Termination of parental rights.

[44:21]  Oh yeah,

[44:23]  that should not be a thing. I can understand that perhaps kids aren't going to be able to be placed back with their parents. But terminating a family, uh, terminating a child from his entire family through a legal process to me makes no sense and is unacceptable. I should not lose my grandmother, my sisters, my brothers, my cousins, my aunts because of a legal process.

[44:50]  Almost like you had to start a whole new life.

[44:52]  Whole new life. meet new people. You know what's so sad about that actually um that you say that is I have a friend now, she is 35 years old. When it comes to Thanksgiving, she's had to find her own family because she was in um so many different foster homes that uh that last foster home, you know, it's kind of like a mom, but she didn't even go there, you know, that was just a foster mom. She was just there for a couple of years because there was so many different ones. And it's it's sad to to know that, right? And now she's had to do her own digging and searching and finding out where's mom and where's cousins and realizing, oh my god, I have family that's just an hour away. Yeah.

[45:24]  Two hours away. I never knew that.

[45:26]  Because once you have those records are sealed, so you have no access to them. Your life as you knew it from whatever time does not exist legally for you anymore.

[45:35]  No, I I um when I asked the question, you didn't hesitate almost like we were playing Jeopardy. You said it so fast. Um, and I know that it it's has stuck with you over the years because you mentioned how early on in your career that's what you've seen and to this day you still fight for it. So, we definitely appreciate what you do, Miss Lena, for making the sacrifices you have to be a little young Detroit girl to then go into LA. It's a whole new world and take on a challenge that you've succeeded for the last five, six years. So, kudos to what you're doing. Guys, these are the different leaders that we love to have here and representation matters. So to see a black woman at the head of the table also makes me smile. So continue the hard work and and making a difference when it comes to representation because it does matter. Guys, if you are enjoying these conversations, make sure to like, subscribe, and comment. Don't forget that Lena, you can find her on LinkedIn. Make sure you guys follow him on social. My name is Ephrain. This is Lena. We'll catch you on the next one.