From Queens Drug Wars to AI Healing: How Survivor's Guilt Drives Dr. Marlon Gray's Mission

[0:16]  Welcome back to another episode here on the Heart and Hustle Podcast. Let's get real. Dr. Marlin is a Listen, I appreciate you, man, taking your time to have this conversation. The first time we got together, it was pretty dope. But I got to ask you, you grew up in one of the roughest parts of Queens during the crack epidemic, and now you're using AI to help kids heal. What do you think that your younger version of you would actually say if he saw you today,

[0:38]  man? Um, honestly, the younger version of me would have probably been like, there's no way you would have been here, right? Um, I think that we perform outside of our wildest dreams and then we come to, you know, we we I don't think that we were able to see it back then. And I think that's why these conversations with us right now are very important right because you know I think a lot of the young people even today they can't see themselves 20 years from now 30 years from now

[1:04]  that that that hustle that they have in that moment is really just for the moment right um so I think that the younger me would have been like how did you even get here right like how did we even get here because growing up in homicide hollis is what they called it back then

[1:19]  we were supposed to be dead or in jail or just like working a menial job somewhere But here we are at this level, at this level of progress, success, whatever it is, I don't think we would have seen it to be honest with you.

[1:31]  Y'all, today's guest is a force. He turned pain into purpose, silent into advocacy, and tech into healing. Founder of Empower You, a real one in the field and in the digital space. Dr. Marlon Gay is here. I really, let's kind of keep going, man. What's one memory from those early Queen days that that still live in your your head, rentree? Um, I would have to say I mean there were there were some interesting experiences that I had as a as a kid. Um, you know, we had Latin Kings that were on our block gangs, right? We we had that.

[2:06]  Uh, we had some level of gang violence as a result. Uh, 20 in Jamaica, right across from Jamaica Park. Um, you know, I had some of those instances where you saw a neighbor and then the next day you didn't see that neighbor anymore and your mom was trying to explain it to you that basically that neighbor's gone.

[2:22]  Yeah.

[2:22]  Right.

[2:23]  Um, I had, you know, um, my next door neighbors, they were Haitian. Uh, you know, they had a three family, whatever the case was living next door. It wasn't a legal three family. You know how that goes,

[2:34]  right? Um, but I remember one day, you know, as a little kid, um, that a guy that was basically like the neighborhood mechanic, I saw him like leaning over the fence and he was rocking back and forth and he was talking to himself and he was doing this and he was doing that and next thing you know, he was gone and my mom had to try to find a way for me at a young age to explain that basically drugs took him,

[2:56]  right? You saw the behavior change. He wasn't the guy that you used to say hello to, the guy that used to give you like a nickel, you know, to to go grab ice cream, whatever. he wasn't that guy anymore because drugs had taken him. Um I think uh later again all all in the same block. Um you know um I had a person who had autism now I I recognize it as autism, right? Um but he in a fit of rage killed his caregiver and all of a sudden Miss Glattus is gone now, right? and your parents are trying to find ways to explain this to you but also insulate you because that's our job as parents right to insulate our kids against you know what's happening in the world but also to prep them right and so I think a lot of that stuff helped inform how I decided to live my life and how I decided to move in in terms of my profession you know what I mean

[3:48]  and you mentioned through all this man like really seeing the other side of life right like a lot of deaths man very early on in your life something that you could really easily kind of followed in, but instead you you mentioned survivors guilt before. When did you first feel that and how did you really how did that shape your path moving forward?

[4:06]  Yeah, I mean the the interesting thing about survivors guilt is that when you internalize the message of somebody saying, you know, and we've heard a lot of us have heard this, you will end up dead or in jail, right? But then when you actually see that happen to people that you grew up with and that started happening to me around maybe 17, 18 years old,

[4:26]  you started seeing people like literally going to jail. Couple years later they were dead, you know, things like that. And then you realize like, wait, I actually did make it. Like I I discounted those messages. Like nah, it can't never happen to me. What you talking about? Right? Uh but then when you see people very close to you and I've had quite a few of them literally dead or in jail and here you are operating at this different place. You're like wait that was real and what could have done to help or do more or maybe save somebody right and I think that you can't really harp on too much of that. I think once it happens, I think you have to realize in the present instead of looking back at the past, in the present, here's what I have the power to do. You know what I mean? And you have to you have to work on that part. You know what I mean? It

[5:15]  it's tough. And and I hear you right. Like when when you you're doing well and and everybody else is kind of in the same place, you want to continue to always bring them up with you, but at what point do you got to kind of say we all have the same opportunity? You know,

[5:31]  that's that's a real conver I just so share story with you like and I'm still kind of shaken up about this. This just happened. Uh there

[5:42]  are you there?

[5:43]  Dr. Marlin, did I did I lose you?

[5:46]  I can't hear you. Yeah. No. Can you hear me now?

[5:51]  Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. I can hear you now.

[5:52]  You hear me?

[5:54]  You're back. Yep.

[5:55]  All right. Cool. Um, so this this just happened the other day in uh Newark, New Jersey, right? Um, you know, my frat brother uh you know, Mayor Raj Baraka, he was uh arrested, right? Um, you know, by the federal government, you know, for an ICE detainy situation that was basically unconstitutional, right? And he was kind of saying, "Hey, listen. This place does not have the right permits. They should not be able to operate." But they invited him in just to arrest him, right? This was Friday. And um when we went down to go support him, we ended up after he got released, we ended up going, you know, going to dinner right across from the New Jersey Performing Arts Center, downtown area, cops everywhere, the whole nine. And I had just jumped out of my car. I hadn't locked the door yet because I saw somebody I knew. So I ran up to him to go, you know, mess with him real quick. And um I guess these young kids thought my car was still running. Next thing I know, his wife says, "Who's that in your vehicle?" And I turn and I look and I ran across the street because this dude was trying to steal my car, right?

[7:04]  And as I'm running down on him, and I'm not a small guy. I'm built like a NFL foot, you know, linebacker. You know what I'm saying? 6'2, 225, like, you know, I'm running down on you real quick.

[7:13]  But in his eyes, I could see the fear as I was running down on him because this kid had to be no more than two or three years older than my own son.

[7:22]  Wow. and my son is, you know, 15. So, this is a teenager we're talking about. And when I saw that these guys not only ran together, but one of them peeled down the back window like he was going to shoot, and I realized we have a lot of purpose out here. These young men especially, a lot of them need guidance. A lot of them need somebody to like show them the right way. these guys will probably end up what I used to hear back in the day, dead or in jail if they don't change their trajectory, right? And I think that's why our work, that's why our message is so important.

[7:57]  Yeah. Yeah. 100%.

[7:58]  If you can catch just one out of four of those guys in the car, just one of them to change his life, you've done your job.

[8:05]  That's all it takes, man.

[8:06]  Yeah. Yeah. Just it just takes that that one. And sometimes, man, you won't even um know that you touched that one, right? And that's what's so uh beautiful about the the work that we do, but also remembering that as well, cuz sometimes as you do this, you're like, am I am I living in my purpose? Am I actually doing the work? Right? Imposter syndrome,

[8:26]  we talk about mental health all the time. That's a real thing. And I don't care at what age, at what color? Like it it's a real thing for all of us. I've seen that myself and I still experience it even at levels that I'm in now.

[8:36]  Yeah.

[8:37]  Am I good enough to be in this room? A lot of time it may be because of age,

[8:41]  right? I've been in rooms full of older people and thought to myself like damn, you know, or because of my color, you know? You know what's really crazy? I actually mentioned this uh Dr. Dr. Marlin was I walked into a room, right? I was like, I want to kind of get more into my my community. So, I went to a Latin event, right? It was a mixer. It was a networking event. And I was like, man, I I don't get into that community of my people enough. I felt so uncomfortable. And it was maybe because I was a younger Latin compared to all these, you know, probably grown different, raised different, and I'm like, I will never do it again, you know. And I think that's what what happens at times as well is that we go into these rooms and and we feel this once and we'll never do it again. And I say that because, you know, I I I felt some ti that time, man. And

[9:29]  I know that feeling. Yeah.

[9:31]  And it happens when we speak to therapists. We got that one and we'll never do it again. uh when we think that we have a mentor and it was a bad mentor. Bad. I will never do it again. Yeah.

[9:43]  You cannot give up. It's like dating. Okay. You got to keep going.

[9:46]  Yeah. You You got to be resilient through it. Like I think that if you separate the the instance from the concept, right? The concept of good mentorship, we've seen it work. The instance may have not worked out for you in that moment, and that's got to be okay. But your resilience where your resilience kicks in because when you've had a lot of trials and tribulations, you've basically had to do a mathematical equation in your life. Meaning the force was the power that you exerted over resistance. That's the force that you are in your life.

[10:18]  You can't you can't lose sight of that. You can't forget that. Right.

[10:21]  And so the resilience kind of has to kick in and say, "Okay, listen. This situation didn't work out and that's got to be okay,

[10:28]  but we're going to try it again."

[10:30]  Yep. and we're going to try it again and we're going to try it again until something clicks, right? Like that was my therapeutic journey actually to be honest. You know, I had to find something until it clicked and when it clicked, it clicked.

[10:41]  Yep.

[10:43]  Believe in.

[10:44]  And and and remembering that every time you fail, right, or every time you think something went wrong, there's a lesson to be learned there. What is that lesson? And I always have to kind of remember that as well cuz when you're in those dark times and when you asking yourself these questions and when things didn't go your way or you know it looks like the world is falling around you,

[11:00]  you really got to look at it as what lesson did I learn? Whether it's a relationship, right, whether it's a job truly what did I take away from it because it's so easy to dwell into the negative and it has been for so many years, right? That's just what we kind of grew up in. So we have to have a different mindset which I love is what you do with the kids. But when we talk about just mindset and we talk about uh kind of in the youth basketball something that gave you structure.

[11:24]  Yeah.

[11:24]  Do you also feel that that it maybe saved your life?

[11:27]  Oh, I mean hands down. I I think you know it's when you when you talk about especially when you're it's it's weird because you can't project too much into the future. You can't call the future. Like if we could if we could all call the future, we'd all be billionaires because we'd be calling the stock market moves up and down all day, right? That's not how it moves, right? And so with that said, it's like when you're at a position where you can actually take a look back and you can process things through a more mature lens, you're able to say, "Okay, listen, I can see the different factors, key success factors even into what drove me to this point of survival slash thriving, right?" And I think that um when I look back at it, some of the kids that I that I knew that I grew up with that literally ended up dead or in jail, I had one of them, I saw the name come through on a referral and I was like, "Yo, that kid, you know, me and him, we we scrapped it fifth in fifth grade at the bus stop." I remember him, right? Uh it was his son that we were seeing. He was incarcerated, right?

[12:26]  Wow.

[12:26]  And so like, you know, when you see some of those situations, you ask yourself, what was the differentiator? For me, it was organized sports. Um, in fact, I was actually having a meeting with uh somebody from the United Way a couple days ago, and they have a new program that they're putting up together, you know, to to identify and teach coaches how to identify kids who might have certain challenges X, Y, and Z. And then say, you know, here we're going to teach you, we're going to provide LMS programming. We're going to get into the AI piece, I'm sure, a little bit later in this in this in this call. um but you know we're going to actually create these tools to help identify and help help these kids, right? And I think for me, we didn't have all of those things. It was more of a coach saying, "Hey, listen. Kids got talent. You need to be off the streets. Who you hanging with is not really going in the right direction. Let me pull you in with something that interests you." And that ends up for me being basketball, right? Um when I found basketball, I found something where I had a creative outlet. I had a physical outlet. I learned leadership. I learned team play. I learned how to lead and fall back and defer to leadership

[13:34]  all in that model. And I think these are all um critical skills that we can develop, transferable skills that we can develop from a young age. That's what did it for me. It could be in any variation of any discipline. Basketball is a discipline. Baseball is a discipline. Karate is a discipline. Right? In any of those disciplines, we learn discipline. You know what I mean?

[13:56]  So, so, so you think it's important to just have that community per se, right? As you said, and it only comes to mind because I was literally just talking to someone a little earlier and I was just sell he was doing a video recording and I was like, "Man, you're so good, man." And, you know, you know, just talking to him and he really was. And he's like, "Man, if I can pin it back to a time in my life, it was when I was part of the uh what he said, the man uh the Boy Scouts."

[14:21]  Yeah.

[14:21]  Right. and and he would just say because we had to remember these lines and we had it kind of portrayed like this and

[14:28]  so and you know I never been part of the boys that but I'm thinking like man everybody can go back to a time in their life that taught them confidence that taught them leadership that taught them something in life. Well, it it's Yes. Yes. Yes. And yes. Right. And so my best friend, and we are best friends since four years old. He was a boy scout. I was a basketball player. He was a boy scout, right? He'd be like, "Scouts honor." He'd be like saying all these words and stuff. And I'm just like I'm like, "Yo, how do you remember all those lines, bro?" But it's it's not a matter of the organization and the discipline aspect of it. I believe that we all fundamentally have this need to feel accepted, a need to sense community where you can just naturally just be yourself, but also be a version of yourself in that moment and it be safe, right? Because

[15:17]  I feel like especially for urbanized minoritized kids, um you might want to be tough. you might want to, you know, rep, you know, whatever it is, you know, from the street, wherever you're from,

[15:26]  you might want to personify that, but low-key, you might like to play the bass or cello.

[15:32]  Yeah.

[15:33]  You know, low-key you might, you know, be interested in, you know, uh, chess, right?

[15:39]  Wuang, Bobby Digital, like you might be interested in chess, and that's got to be cool. That's got to be okay. So I think that when you find that community, it also answers a basic psychological need that most of us need is a sense of belonging, right? Because you can be in a community and not be of the community.

[15:57]  Hey, real quick. Have you enjoying the podcast? We first want to say thank you. And we also just want to give you a little insight of what we're up to at Francis. Some don't even realize that we're working with organizations to help them use AI to create that real human communication experiences. Whether that's actually supporting your your families, those patients or the entire community, we're actually creating tech that connects. Check it out. Francis.ai. Okay. So, I feel it comes hard, right? Because kind of to what you said, you might love something um but in reality it ain't cool, right? and and and you try to create this come as you are culture in a world that judges people at the door. H how do you create that?

[16:42]  Yeah. I mean, you know, at least with us here, the way I see it is that we are real people helping real people, right? And so, you know, if you have tattoos and green hair and you just happen to be damn good at your job, excuse my French, we want you because you are relatable to the people that we serve, right? Like people should not feel, especially when they're seeking help, they shouldn't feel judged. They shouldn't feel like, you know, because these are the stigmas that we're trying to break down, right? That, you know, when somebody comes to the house and they're dressed a certain way, they must be child protective services. That's not the case. We're just coming here to try to help you with whatever is going on in your house, right? Like that's our people. So I don't have super strict dress codes, obviously, you know, within reason, right? But like if you have tattoos and you want to have them out, I got tattoos all over the place. I'm letting them out. Our lead care coordinator, you go to our website, she literally has green hair, right? We have people who might have piercings, whatever the case is, but they know their craft.

[17:43]  Correct.

[17:44]  And I think that because they come as they are, they are less intimidating to people who would seek the help, who are also dealing with stigmas that stop them from seeking the help because now I'm dealing with someone who feels like me. And that's so much easier for me to take down my guard, engage, and thrive, do better, heal, right?

[18:05]  That's

[18:07]  I love it, man. I'm loving this conversation. We are, we kind of talked about a little earlier on, first of all, the representation is everything, right? And here we are, two men of color that I felt we've done a really good job at at healing. We understood what that does, not just for us, but for our kids and for those that we touch on our journey as leaders, right? Right. We're both part of organizations.

[18:27]  Yeah.

[18:28]  But let's let's kind of get real in it. Why do you think that so many of men of color still feel like healing is actually a luxury and not something that is actually necessary?

[18:35]  Man, I I don't know

[18:37]  I don't know if I would say that they feel that healing is a luxury per se. Um I don't know if they feel that healing is at all necessary. Right. Um there could be those who see it as a luxurious item that they can't afford, but you actually can. Right. Those who don't see it as necessary whatsoever though, they remind me of the guy at the gym or the person at the gym who stacks up three plates on each side and says, "I don't need no spotter." And next thing you know, the weight's on his neck. Like, ugh. You know what I'm saying? Like, like we don't I believe that especially with within certain generations, we were built to handle or we thought we were built to handle a certain level of stress. But I think that we're discovering that you don't have to handle that by yourself. It's okay to have a spotter. It's okay to have a community. It's okay to have support. And I think that that's a message that a lot of folks are still processing, right? Where am I in a safe space to tell people that I'm actually feeling something? Because, well, young men, at least in the ' 80s, when I was growing up,

[19:38]  you weren't designed to feel anything. What? What? You got feelings?

[19:41]  What? No. Hold that down. No, we don't cry. You eat that and you keep moving. It doesn't have to be that way. We don't have to let scars be all over our bodies just to prove that we're tough. It's okay to walk out of a situation seemingly unscathed, right? Because you asked for help when you needed help. You got help when you needed help. That's got to be okay. And I think that a lot of us are not. I

[20:05]  I think that the message especially think the pandemic I hate to say this, the pandemic kind of helped because

[20:11]  I agree. when when when the pandemic kicked in, people started realizing mental health challenges because they were really stuck in the thick of it. They didn't know what was going on. There was so much anxiety around the world. Kids were talking about it. Older people were talking about it. Couples were seeking therapy. They're like, "We've been married 20 years and we just realized we don't even know each other. What do we do?" Right? Like, it became normalized. And I hate to say that an event like that offered that opportunity to break down a lot of these stigmas that we have. And I still think that in the black and brown communities, we are now embracing the fact that you know what, I don't have to go to a clinic. I can do this through tellahalth just like how we're talking right now, right?

[20:48]  I can talk to somebody privately and it's got to be okay and I'm able to release everything so that I don't transfer it into how I parent or how I partner or how I show up at work, right? So, I think that we're slowly getting it. Um, but we're getting it. I I I literally was just having this conversation yesterday and thought the same we were talking about the same exact thing how the pandemic has truly made it okay for people to even mention the word mental health.

[21:13]  Correct.

[21:13]  Right. Like a word that we it's almost like we didn't even know this word existed and now everyone's talking about it which you know and I sometimes may people still throw it around around in the wrong ways but truly people are talking about their problems a little bit more. I mean the reason that me and Kenan do this is because we talk about problems right? It's not always just success. is not always just everything's not just beautiful, man. We we come from some dark times, you know, and for me, you talk about just kind of finding that person therapy. I didn't see seek till I was 30 years old, but I was already dealt with, you know, sex abuse. I was already dealing with, you know, adoption um with just feeling that, man, why me? You know, why did my mom not fight hard enough? and what am I supposed to be doing because I was told that this was gay or you know all these different things and and not feeling comfortable in my voice because people make fun of it.

[22:02]  But if people ask what my superpower is, it was my voice the whole time.

[22:06]  Yeah.

[22:07]  It was it was me, you know, being vocal about my story. It was me being uh uh uh strong enough to tell my testimony for somebody else can see that they're not alone really being the voice for the voiceless. So I ask you, man, what was the first time you seek therapy and what was what was the difference? I think one time you told me that just seeing a woman of color was kind of made that difference a little.

[22:25]  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, uh, you know, for me it wasn't just the neighborhood and the community trauma that I was dealing with. I was dealing with being bullied at school. I was dealing with, you know, um, situations at home, uh, you know, that could have bordered on, let's just say, abuse, neglect, whatever. Right.

[22:44]  Yeah. Um, one of the actors around that was my trusted adult, my, you know, my my mom, right? And so, um, the fact that, you know, physically I took a lot of pain from that woman. Just going to call it what it is, you know, like we we've tried to talk about it, we still talk about it now. And I think that's a part of the healing journey. I think my dad and I, we've had good conversations around it. Her, she's still kind of like, you deserved it. Like, you know, she's old school from another country. This is how they raise kids. She was raised by her grandparents. So technically speaking, she was like two generations behind

[23:17]  how that worked. So like it took me I I landed here because I wanted to understand who she was because imagine you love someone that really hurt you so deeply, right? And so when I um man uh when I uh when I was going through my therapeutic journey, I I knew I was having some challenges because I knew um like how relationships and how I was showing up in relationships and the guards that I would keep up and all the rest of this other stuff too. Uh I understood my abandonment issues and you know how I fear abandonment and how that showed up you know for me as a partner in relationships. But it wasn't until I found somebody who was very representative of the actor in my life that caused a lot of these traumas, a black woman.

[24:02]  Mhm.

[24:03]  I had the strongest therapeutic connection I've ever had. And it changed so much. It helped me reshape some things. It helped me reframe some things. It helped me put things in correct buckets. And also helped me accept the apologies that I may never receive, but also make amends where I had to. Mhm. I I remember walking into the room and myself, 30 years old, and the re and the way that I got in was um I had just became a dad. So, my child might have been a couple of months old at that time. But I told you, man, I come from a very um just crazy, you know, upbringing. My biological mom had eight kids or 10 kids, sorry. Bological father had eight. They only had one together. We're all adopted. So, just me being present, you know, when we say what we do, we learn from those that are not present. There was a lot of how to learn from my dad that was not there, right? And one thing I knew for sure was that all I needed to be present before we ever had kids and I was just talking to now my wife uh girlfriend at the time. I said, "Listen, God forbid we have kids or not." No, we were going to have kids, but we have kids. God for something happens.

[25:09]  They're also a blessing. Best job in America.

[25:12]  God forbid something happens, man. when we when we, you know, get married and have kids that we can just still work it out and be present for our children. That was so important to me, right? So, I remember 30 years old now, man. And I'm just in tears crying. I don't even know what the heck I'm crying for at this moment. But my wife comes in and she's like, "Man, she was already going through therapy cuz she was going through postpartum, but she mentioned um you know, I have this one session left. I think you should go instead of me."

[25:36]  That's how I ended up there, bro.

[25:38]  And I ended I I was like, you know,

[25:40]  it felt dope, right? Like

[25:42]  it did. It did. I'll tell you what though, I had seen somebody via teleahalth

[25:46]  and I hated it

[25:48]  and and that was it. That was it for me cuz I thought the experience was horrible. I'm trying to get in contact with this person and and she's just not like she wasn't good. So when I met this other person and it almost kind of sparked to what you just said. Um you know the crazy thing is I was able to speak to my father all these years even though he was still not showing up, right? He would say something and not come through. But something about my mom, like I just it it I don't know, you know, maybe that's just that that mother instinct thing that we all don't get, right? Yeah.

[26:18]  And um when I it was a it was a Latin woman that I sat across from me, man. And yeah, she made it so easy. And at the end of it, I'm saying like,

[26:25]  damn, she didn't tell me what to do.

[26:28]  She was just asking me questions that made me truly see things a little bit differently, right? That mindset shift we talk about, you know, that mental health. It is truly just getting in the mind and asking yourself these questions, seeing things from a different perspective that no one's ever brought it to you. Them being so like they're they're not judgmental. They're just listening to you, man. And just, hey, did you ever think of this or what do you why this? You know, is that your experience as well?

[26:50]  And I think yes. And I and I think that, you know, this goes back to what we talked about separating the instance from the concept, right? because the concept of therapy is a good positive one, but you're not always going to have the best instances with every therapist that you see, right? Um, it just may not be a fit. The person might specialize in something that you actually don't need, right? And that's got to be okay that you say, "Okay, listen. This particular situation didn't work." I had, you know, the therapist I had before, this young lady that I I have now, I refer everybody to her. I love her. Like, I really just, she's phenomenal. Um, we're at a point now where we're not meeting weekly. like if I need to check in like one of my best friends passed away two years ago I checked in and we we we met each other for a few weeks. If something major in life shifts I will meet with her and you know she'll help me put things back in perspective

[27:38]  and remind me of who I am actually in the moment and then eventually I start internalizing the message and remind myself who I am because it's not to be that you need to latch on to therapy and that needs to be your end all be all all the time. It's really just to remind you of what you said earlier. Actually, your voice was reigning supreme this entire time.

[27:56]  But some of the negative messages or some of the negative experiences that you had made you internalize things that people have said to you in your own voice. You have to rule those things out, move them out. Therapy helps you with that. So the concept the concept is strong, but maybe the pairing is not always going to be strong. So I would urge people that they're, you know, who are embarking on that journey, if you have a bad experience, do understand it might just be a bad pairing. It's just like dating, right? We've all dated, right? And you've met that person on the first date, you're like, "This ain't it." But then you might meet another one to be like, "Oh my god, this is everything." And then three weeks later, you're like, "Okay, this ain't it either." Right? But eventually you find your match. You find your pairing. Right? And I think that people should I encourage folks to stay resilient around the concept and not get too wrapped up in the instance.

[28:46]  I love it. It's funny you use an analogy. I use it all the time, but on the entrepreneurial side of it, it says, "Hey, if you're hiring an assistant or you're hiring someone, maybe that first person doesn't work out." I say to a lot of my entrepreneur friends because they're like, "Man, I need to go find somebody." Well, go find that person. They was like, "Man, that person can't do this." Well, you got to go date around, man, until you find that right fit, man. So, it's funny that you

[29:06]  and you're not going to find 100% of what you're looking for, by the way, because it's just like dating. It's just like dating. Listen, I mean, crazy story, crazy aside, I was dating this girl. She was 5 foot, right? Like, I'm I'm in a whole whole different relationship now. Very happy where I am. But this old relationship, she was 5 foot. I'm 6'2. She had the nerve to tell me that I was too short. And I said, "What? What? What do you mean?" Right? Like, but I like this. I like this. I like that. Like I think in dating, in any type of pairing or anything that we look at, we are tempted to check off boxes, right?

[29:42]  Correct.

[29:43]  Tall, successful, black, whatever it is you're looking for, right?

[29:46]  You're looking at all of these things. And you know, I think that if you don't put yourself or task yourself with accomplishing a 100% score on your checklist or simplifying that checklist to the things that really truly truly truly matter,

[30:02]  does my height matter as much as my heart?

[30:05]  Oh, come on now.

[30:06]  You know,

[30:06]  stop it, doctor. We have to ask ourselves and this is actually one of the questions I'm probably going to pose to the next person like you know do we actually do a real inventory of what's truly important

[30:20]  right and so once we realize what's truly important like I realized that you know in my therapeutic journey I wanted to speak to men first because I felt like these dating issues da da da da that could be you know I need to talk to a guy about this.

[30:34]  Yeah. But when I flipped the script and I said, "You know what? I think some of this actually has to do with childhood traumas and this is actually like why do I flock to this type of relationship?" I used to date women that would straight haze me and I had women that would, you know, literally die for me and I would I couldn't connect. But the ones that would haze me because I had to work for their love, it was so familiar. I realized that was actually a childhood trauma at work. And when I went and I embraced it head-on, and I got into that journey with this black woman, this black therapist, a lot of things changed up, opened up a lot of doors, helped me understand a lot of things, unpack, process so much. And now all of a sudden, all that weight that we're taught as young men that we have to carry, you can't have feelings. All of a sudden, you walking around with your shoulders a little higher because you got a little weight shaved off of it, right? and you feel good and you feel emp mentioned a little earlier um just the technology the AI space you're truly using AI for for healing work right but for the folks that are listening thinking wait what

[31:46]  break that down for us man what does that look like

[31:48]  there there's so much around the AI space um that that's happening in mental health care work you know I can't discuss some of our projects at the moment I'm not in a position to do that my investors would probably kill me um but when it comes down to it. You know, you take a look at how AI can monitor sessions just like this and actually give you feedback, right? Correct.

[32:08]  When you talk about how clinicians actually learn, the way that they learn right now, they practice on real people under the supervision of a licensed clinician, imagine a scenario where they can actually practice in AI built environments and not on real people as they hone their skills before they start working with real people. Right now, if you're going for therapy, let's say you're going for surgery, do you want your surgeon to be like, "Oh, it's my first day on the job. I'm still training, but this guy's watching me. We're all good."

[32:36]  Definitely not. 100% not

[32:38]  saying like like what? Like,

[32:41]  am I coming out alive?

[32:43]  Before they put the mask on you, you pass out. Like, what? You know what I'm saying? Like, you're saying all types of Hail Marys and all that. Like, no, no, no. Like, do you So, so how we train clinicians, AI can help with that. how we actually embark on the mental health care journey. AI can help with that, right? AI has this ability to learn at exponential speeds, right? It could learn the individual, whether it's your learning needs, your healing needs, whatever it is. It could actually help almost as a coach

[33:13]  in your journey. And so that part I'm comfortable saying because there's other companies out there like Backpack and all the rest of these other companies as well. uh shout out to to Miss Muhammad uh you know from Backpack like they're doing powerful work just around student healing using artificial intelligence right and so um I I think that this that that we're at a very interesting time right now because for guys like me who grew up like computer nerds you know what I mean who always wanted to find ways to do this stuff you got low code platforms or low code coding platforms that will actually handle all your coding for you and not even put you on their platform, but you own the platform. And now you can actually just articulate what it is that you want to see and do through AI. And AI will actually do all your coding and do everything for you. I literally just built an LMS over two or three episodes of Handmaid's Tales on a Friday night just talking to AI at lovable.dev.

[34:12]  Yeah, I love AI. Listen, people that uh it's just kind of fascinating. Matter of fact, I think the my biggest accomplishment actually thus far was speaking to one of my board members and she's like 70 plus probably like 72 73 where I was able to teach her chat GBT and she was in like in awe like wait a minute did you just save that and I'm like it you don't got to save it. It's already here and she you know

[34:34]  I gave her the kind of the blueprint. We did it virtually but she's like man next time we in person I would love I'm a hands-on person. I would love for you to kind of just really walk me through because I can see the benefit of it. It is cool to see somebody at that age so fascinated because there's a lot of fear in it. You know what I mean? And I get why there's fear in it, but I think once people understand and get educated that it's truly a tool you talk about, man, it makes us so much creative, right? Makes us much to me. I'm happy you're like, damn, I got it. You know, I didn't have to spend hours and hours. I just spent a couple of minutes talking.

[35:03]  It can the way you talk to G like I teach this to my team, you know. Um, our business is a part of the entrepreneur access network for EY. Shout out to EY on that one. Uh it's a program where they are giving you know black and brown companies uh access to so many critical resources whether they're internal at EY or they are external but they help us like level up or exit or whatever it is right and so they have so many powerful things that they're they're they're doing on that side of things and um we I have we we taught a I actually taught the class on chat GPT uh and set up the slides and everything else like that. And then when we had a conference about two weeks ago in Hoboken, not too far away, so technically I was kind of hosting. It's my home area.

[35:50]  Okay.

[35:51]  Um, one of the guys was like, "Listen, um, I know that, you know, we haven't connected before, but I was in that class that you taught and then it you showed me all these different places I could go to program and I actually found this technology that I've now built and I'm now branding and I'm now doing this around inventory management for my business, right? And all of it is talk to me nice. That's all it is. Talk to the system nice. Be very clear on what you want. Right? Be very clear on what you want. Like as long as you know exactly what you want, you know how to give it context. You know how to how to give it a very specific ask. Right? After that it can actually do so much and in the process it learns you.

[36:32]  You could say, "Hey, listen. I'm I'm receiving a community um impact and leadership award on on Friday. I asked chat TBT in my normal tone, please give me whatever for this this award that I can say and I want to talk about collaboration. I want to talk about, you know, doing things together. I want to talk about, you know, this 20-year partnership and I want you to research this company. You already know my company. Talk to me. Oh, by the way, make it 2 minutes or less.

[36:58]  Yeah, that's exactly what I was teaching the 70 plus year old uh woman that I had. We had to we're doing scholarships tonight and on Sunday we were told we had to write 45 second scripts on the 1215 of the people because they wanted her to put it in this binder. So when I seen that she had to do that that she's running scholarship I said hey let me kind of help you I we can get this done in minutes. So when I was showing her this she's like you know she was a little overwhelmed. So I ended up doing anyway but a project that would have took her she had to read an essay read a recommendation letter for every kid and then go back and write it. And maybe she's really good at it but just imagine the time. Do you want that 70 plus year old lady to be doing this

[37:36]  extra work when she's supposed to be enjoying life? You know what I mean? That's what I told her.

[37:40]  I think the pandemic actually taught us about what I call time economy, right? Like the time economy aspect of things. It's like listen, yes, you can do it. You might experience purpose in doing it, but we can do it faster.

[37:51]  We can do more of it. So imagine your level of impact with this thing as your assistant, right? Yeah.

[37:57]  Like I call it my Marvis, right? You know Jarvis from uh Iron Man. Like I call mine I call my AI Marvis, right? Like Mar like you know what I mean? Like hey Marvis, what are we doing today? He's like, "Hey, Dr. Great. Good morning. What are we building, right?" You know what I'm saying? Like imagine having this assistant who this assistant who could um help you accelerate your dreams and your ideas so much faster. Imagine being able to conduct comprehensive research. I literally tell mine, hey, from, you know, let's try angulate the data from three different verifiable but strong sources around these concepts. Give me proof of it and disprove whatever you can because we want to get this right. And that's a simple conversation,

[38:41]  40 seconds,

[38:43]  30 seconds later, you got a response.

[38:46]  You know, I'm totally a fan of it. I I want to respect our time. I know we're coming here to coming to an end, man. How can people get involved or support the work Empire is doing?

[38:57]  Well, first things first, you know, I always love talking to you.

[38:59]  You're cutting off. Say it again.

[39:00]  Like I told you like already,

[39:02]  oh, I said, you know, I always love talking to you, right?

[39:06]  Oh, man. Listen, I wish we had more time. If I didn't have a hard stop, I would have definitely kept it going.

[39:12]  Well, I'm going to I'm going to tell I'm going to tell our our our listeners here today what I told you in the first time we ever spoke. Um, and that was that, you know, you and I probably would have been in the back of the class getting in trouble when we were growing up. Like, like I vibe with you like that, man.

[39:25]  Oh my god.

[39:26]  So, you're going to um join in

[39:30]  real quick. You're going to join in with everybody else because that's exactly what I was doing, my brother. Like, you you know what's really crazy about this opportunity that I have now? I just mentioned going to the school and handing out scholarships. I'm going to my old high school that I barely graduated from that uh when it was senior walk out, I didn't find out that I actually was graduating until I senior walk out day, but I just knew I was done with school. That's kind of almost where I was at with it. And now I'm the president of the foundation that I even know existed, right? But an opportunity to kind of go back and show these kids, no matter who you are at school, no matter who you were, like that's not your story. That's not who you're going to be. You know, I think sometimes we go to to school and and for some of us, man, we are so hands-on learning that sitting in a classroom and just watching someone lecture wasn't what we needed, right? That and and that's what I love what empower you is doing. It's very different in the sense of we're not trying to lecture our kids. We're really trying to get down and meet them at their level. You mentioned

[40:27]  where they are.

[40:28]  Yeah. Meet Meet you at where you are and come as who you are. We love you, you know, like it doesn't make it any different. You still have talent. You're creative and all these different things. So to you know what you say man yeah we were definitely those kids in the back but also to say even if you're that kid in the back you know or were that was that kid in the back that doesn't mean that we got to be today. We're in front of now we're in front of the classrooms right now we're actually the ones doing the facilitating and empowering others the way that we wanted to see empowerment.

[40:55]  You you you you have to be a part of the change that you want to see in the world. Period. And and I I believe strongly and and my girlfriend and I we talk about this now like she's a school teacher in New York City and you know she hates the administration where she where she is. It's typical you know teacher stuff. I understand it completely. But I said listen babe you can't you can't reside in the middle space. You got to choose one.

[41:18]  You can either be a part of the problem or be a part of the solution.

[41:22]  Come on.

[41:22]  It's one you can't reside between the two. You either have to level yourself up and get yourself to this space where you can affect more change below you and as you continue to elevate, help people elevate as well or you can sit off by the wayside and just complain through until you hit your your retirement age.

[41:38]  That's it.

[41:38]  You got options, right? You got options. And I think that that's for that's relevant, I think, to all of us, right? Like we have the option. We can't live in a middle space where we see a problem and we do nothing about it. It's either you just let the problem not bother you

[41:53]  or you do something about it. And I think those of us who've elevated to the front of the class, who've moved to the front of the class from being behind, we're taking those positions of saying, "Hey, listen. We're going to do something about it." And we're going to build a guiding coalition around it so that our voices aren't the only voices in the room. We got a ton of voices here and you going to hear every last one

[42:11]  100%.

[42:12]  That's how things get done.

[42:14]  How can people get involved with the support that and and support what you're doing and empower you, right? and and not just monetary because people think that to always think, oh, we need money, but no, man, we need people to show up as themselves and volunteer their talent and time. Um, how can people get involved?

[42:29]  Well, well, I would say first things first, you can visit us online at www.justinpower.me. Uh, learn more about the organization and where we're operating. We're expanding into New York, expanding into Atlanta. We we have a a big footprint in Jersey as well. uh we basically look for issues wherever we can find them and we try to go in and we assess them and try to figure out how we can develop solutions around them in the area. The other bit and piece is I would say you know especially for like those who are in school right don't look past social work and counseling degrees by the way they could be very lucrative if you if you if you shape them the right way but you experience so much purpose so much purpose in these careers where I've I've met people who say you know uh I had one person by the way um you know she was a single mom and she wanted to put together parenting groups just for single mothers who are trying to accelerate themselves in entrepreneurship. That became a lane that she owned. One of the things that we look for is people to write their own unique signature on this game of ours. This is not cookie cutter. I want you to come with your ideas and your passions. My passion happen to be working with the atrisisk youth. Why? Because I was one.

[43:39]  Right? We have people that come here and say my my brother had autism has autism and for 25 years we couldn't find services. So I want to work here now because I see that I can be a part of all the stuff that we missed out on and I can empower other people. That's what we want. So bring your authentic self. Come as you are. Right.

[44:00]  I love it man. I love it. I um unfortunately we got to get to the right to the hot seat. So I ask you man if um we talked about the last leader. I thought it was going to be a good one. But what is that superpower um that you didn't know you had and when did you actually notice it?

[44:17]  That's funny because that's actually kind of like my question for the next person again. Um my superpower actually resided within my story. I think that when I decided that I wanted to process it, understand it, and instead of being like this ghost in the back who just doesn't talk and just kind of moves by or whatever the case is, instead of, you know, that I'm I'm now at the front of the classroom sharing it, I'm realizing that it provides power to other people because there are so many other people like even when I have my prayer calls, right? you know, on our prayer call, we'll say for the people who don't verbalize their prayer request, for those unspoken prayers, God still hears you, right? And so, I think that for me, verbalizing it allows those people who don't feel like verbalizing theirs to actually feel more efficacious or more a more ability, a greater ability, more confident in actually saying, "Hey, this is what I'm seeing. This is what I've experienced." And I think that when we have more of that open dialogue, the community heals.

[45:19]  This has been such an amazing conversation. Dr. Mono, what is your blind question to the next individual that we have here on the hard hustle?

[45:25]  Perfect. Uh been waiting for this one because you know I have to make it interesting. Um I would say you know what is one element like if you've looked yourself in the mirror and had an honest conversation with self asking who am I? What have I been through that's gotten me here to this point? What are elements of your story that you've never shared that you know will set someone else free?

[45:49]  You making someone dig deep, man. You about to get somebody emotional just thinking about it.

[45:54]  Emotional.

[45:55]  Yeah, this is good. This is good, man. Guys, this has been a a true blast. We have to do part two because I had so many other questions. But time time, we we got to make sure that we still show up when we say we're going to show up, right? We got to live to our words. I got to make sure we're on time. Dr. Marlin, thank you so much for being here, guys. Don't forget to share, comment, like, subscribe, all that good stuff. My name is E Frra, Hardust Podcast. We'll catch you guys on the next one. Lers.

[46:17]  Thank you, brother. God bless.