From Struggling Teen to Community Leader: The Power of Support and Second Chances

[0:16]  Welcome back to another episode here on the Heart and Hustle Podcast with two people, Michael and Linda. And you guys are coming from Arizona. Is that correct? Is that where we're virtually talking to you guys?

[0:25]  Yep, Tucson, Arizona.

[0:27]  Love it, love it. It's hot, huh? My my best friend told me that Phoenix yesterday was a hundred and eleven degrees and me and my wife said, I guess we're not going to Arizona like you ask us to.

[0:27]  Yeah.

[0:37]  Yeah, I think it was one hundred two here yesterday. Not as hot as Phoenix, but too doggone hot.

[0:38]  Pretty hot.

[0:42]  my god. The born and raised the both you guys or how did you guys get to Arizona?

[0:46]  Yeah, I'm born and raised, Linda. Are you as well?

[0:47]  What Yeah, I'm born and raised in Tucson, a desert rat for sure.

[0:53]  Really? Is that what they call desert rats?

[0:54]  That's what we call it. We call it the desert rat. Lizards do

[0:56]  My my my best I I guess there's something like a roof roof rat? Is that is that a thing?

[0:58]  Or lizards, I guess too. Ooh, I you're asking the wrong person.

[1:03]  I've never heard of a roof rat. Yeah, I don't know. There's the pack rat over here. Yeah, they're pretty common over here. Yeah, in Sonoran Desert, they're very territorial.

[1:08]  Well, I didn't know either and sh sh she was telling me about that. A pack rat?

[1:13]  I've heard of Pack Rats, yeah, I have. Yeah.

[1:19]  Well listen, I I suppose we go to I suppose we go to Arizona here next month and I tell you what, I'm already nervous and scared actually of just going because of the things that I hear. You know, I'm I'm in Orlando, well yeah we get hurricanes.

[1:25]  Angel Light.

[1:31]  For good reasons, Linda, believe me, for good reasons. It is my best friend's baby shower, so it's like she told me I never ask you for anything, so you better be here. So I said, same thing you ask in July. but do I have a say? You know, I don't have a say and I have a say. Well Michael and Linda

[1:31]  You're coming here in July. Yeah.

[1:31]  Awww.

[1:31]  Yeah.

[1:40]  Yeah. Yeah. Aww.

[1:49]  The desert's beautiful though. The desert is absolutely beautiful.

[1:52]  It is.

[1:52]  I can't wait, I can't wait to see the mountains as well. I really do love mountains. But Michael and Linda, what organization are you guys representing today?

[1:59]  So we are both with Tucson Youth Development. been around for over sixty years now here in Tucson, serving youth and disadvantaged communities. So yeah.

[2:08]  And the roles, Michael, what role are you you're playing with the organization?

[2:12]  Yeah, so I've been in many roles with the organization, but my current title is executive director.

[2:16]  Love it. And Linda, your role.

[2:18]  Yeah, so you know, I started off as a grant writer for two strings development, I've been in several roles as well, but my current role is a director of marketing and development.

[2:25]  Let's start there. I want to know about grant writing. Okay, a lot of organizations fail to have that grant writer. and you know, there's it's there's an importance in that. Michael, I'm gonna start with you. What is the importance of a grant writer? 'Cause Linda already knows it all because she was that, but how important do you think a grant writer is for an organization?

[2:43]  It it's huge. And especially for organizations like ours that depend on, you know, federal, state grants, other types of grants. I'm I'm not convinced that our organization would have flourished for all these years or even still be around without competent folks and it's many people. and there's lots of reasons, and that's one of them that I'm excited Linda has returned and Linda was here previously, is I I really think that it's a lifeline to our financial sustainability. Cause like it or not, in the nonprofit world, there is that fiscal aspect. You have to be able to pay the bills, keep people employed. have money to do the programs you want to do and the outreach. So I'm to me it's vital to have a a good grant writing person.

[3:20]  Love that. And Linda, you've been in the space doing the grant writing. Like, what are some of the things people need to know about grant writers and how important they are to an organization?

[3:28]  Well, obviously for the reasons that Mike mentioned, I also think it's important to grant writers really help develop the language for the organization, the voice. what you know, what exactly our programs consist of from the start to the end. And that's super important every single facet of of what we do. We need a a narrative for each one of our programs if we're gonna go out and solicit those things a form for support. so yeah, I think a grant writer is extremely important not only f to for those resources but help to build the voice for the organization and then other people, you know

[3:43]  Mm-hmm.

[3:58]  people within the organization have a cohesive language that they can also go and use as a resource for the organizations who evolve and build.

[4:08]  And when you think about a grant writer, I I think I I guess it's almost like dating, right? You gotta find the right grant writer. What does a right or good grant writer look like? So we're talking about the organizations that say, you what, maybe we should definitely go into that direction. What is that good grant writer assets? What should they have?

[4:28]  Mm-hmm. Well, obviously strong writing skills, right? The ability to be able to communicate in writing. I was just joking with Mike right now that my forte is usually not in front of the camera. I'm usually behind behind the scenes. so you need to have some kind of of skills. But I think also too, you really have to know the population that you're you're serving. you really have to know your programs. You really have to know not only that need within your organization, but how is it also benefiting the community as a whole? so I would say a good rant grant writer consists of all those things of also also Knowing the community. Where are our resources? Where are the needs in our resources? Or were the needs in our community that resources could fill. So, you know, a lot, you know, I just think it has to do with the good writing skills, someone who has the ambition, someone who has the heart and can speak about the population, and then someone who knows the community.

[4:49]  Got it. And Michael probably could second this, but you're saying you're not the good person in front of the camera or more up behind. I think you're doing great for those that are watching. Linda, you got it going on right now, okay? Maybe you should do more in front of the camera and stuff, right, Michael?

[5:10]  Thank you, I appreciate you.

[5:31]  We we were talking about that w when we joined.

[5:34]  that's the conversation I had jumped in. That's what we need to have. No, I I think it's it's cool. you know, someone told me and I I I have to take this now, but someone told me that a leader taught him that this is where comfortable is at, right? This is us sometimes. And there's a whole big world out here, right? And if you just get uncomfortable, the world starts to open up. And I think Linda, the more storytelling, the more you do get in front. I think that passion and purpose that we talk about.

[6:15]  I love

[6:23]  Right? It's in you and it's now for others to realize that passion and purpose that we have. 'cause I do bel I believe that leaders when we're leaders and both of us here are leaders, people are looking at the work that we do and we are actually fertilizing the future that way by just being us at times. and I that's why I love that I was able to have this conversation with two of you guys here today because there's some leadership perspective from the both of you guys. Before we get to the leadership, Michael, if you can kind of just give us a little bit about what the organization is doing in the community, what are the programs that you guys have so we people just know more about that.

[6:32]  Sure. So we're kind of twofold. And I think we're really uniquely positioned here in Southern Arizona and possibly across the world in that there are nonprofits that do what we do in terms of workforce development programs for youth. That's the historical legacy of TYD. my first experience with TYD was as a youth participant. I was a senior in high school, had trouble finding work, and I got to I was paid to stay after school. I was on the school newspaper, I was already staying after school. but TYD gave me that experience of being able to get paid five dollars five dollars an hour, which was a lot back then, aging myself here. But that was my first experience. So we provide those types of programs, youth workforce development programs for some students. It might be workforce training, it might be like me, their first employment experience. and so we've we've done that for and again, that's the historical legacy of TYD. Most of our time as an organization has been spent in workforce development, work readiness type programs.

[6:58]  Ha ha

[7:25]  through various funding sources. but then more recently we also operate two alternative charter high schools and I know that's a mouthful but alternative schools are often viewed in like a pejorative way as as less than and I know we'll get into this undoubtedly later but i alternative is important and then here in Arizona there are traditional public schools which is what are most common but then we also have charter schools so we're alternative and charter so that's really what we offer here in in the Pima County area.

[7:56]  Why that combination? Why why was that so important?

[7:59]  Well, so I one of our longtime board members always talks about this. Through our workforce development programs, we realized in servicing thousands of youth over the years that there was definitely a need for education, and and in some cases remedial, not in a pejorative way, just hey, some students are behind or maybe need an alternative pathway or a smaller school. I definitely while I was never in an alternative school, I I am the poster child for alternative. I I have a short attention span. I I you know, I don't know what it was when I went to high school. I struggled, not in the way that a lot of our youth struggle. I just made dumb choices. but I think I would have really flourished in a smaller school. and so anyway, through the workforce development programs that we identified as an organization, hey, there's a need here. There's really a because back then it was like the traditional public schools, and if you didn't fit, maybe there's an alternative program. But that was kind of it. And so when the charter school movement blew up in the nineties, that was really TYD's focus of hey, let's start providing the education ourselves and kind of a twofold approach.

[9:02]  Love it. So how many how many students are you guys seeing on a yearly basis?

[9:06]  So it varies. brick and mortar right now we've got about fifty kids between our two high schools in person, fifty total. and that's that is super small. it's one of the great things about what we do. We have capacity to serve more. We do have about three hundred and fifty through an online program. and we've been doing this since pre-COVID, working with a third party to provide services for students that just need an asynchronous not a I don't have to be in school eight to four Monday through Friday. I can log in, do my coursework on Saturday or whatever I can. You know, they might be raising children. They might be helping support their parents as caregivers in the home. They might, you know, there's a million reasons why they might need that opportunity. So on the school side we're probably around four hundred served each year.

[9:47]  Yeah, okay. That's that's good. And Linda, how important is it to reach people at where they're at? 'Cause I I know Michael just mentioned that and that is very important.

[9:58]  Well, you know we talk about alternative, right? Alternative just means a different way. it that's all it means. It just means meeting from an educational perspective, just meeting the student exactly where they're at. They me they may need different support than the traditional high school student. they may be having things, barriers that they need addressed you know, kind of in that basic hierarchy of needs before they can actually really achieve success in the in in their in their academics. So I think meeting

[10:18]  I think we lost Linda. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So I and I think what Linda was saying is absolutely true. Less than or different, you know, I let me rephrase that. Different does not have to mean less than. you know, I hear a lot of times in schools people will say, well, at a normal school, and it's like, well, normal for whom? And and you know, then by definition, anything that's not normal is abnormal. And so you know, for us, we just I mentioned myself. I'm I was a poster child for an alternative school. I fell through the cracks in a large high school. There were carrying adults there.

[10:38]  Mm-hmm.

[10:59]  But when you've got a c a classload, a caseload of three hundred you know, thirty kids per class, three, four hundred kids throughout the day, it's easy for one or two or three to fall through the cracks. And so for a lot of our kids, I think the small environment of our schools, and I know we'll inevitably talk about what does TYD look like down the road. We wanna serve as many youth as we can, but I don't want to lose that small approach that we have because I think it's something that we do well and schools and organizations like ours do well. you're not dealing with five hundred other kids in a school. You know, the Our student to teacher ratio with about twenty-five, thirty kids at each school and you know, four to five teachers and multiple staff members is very small. and so, you know, I I think at a larger school, twenty to one would be a great ratio. Twenty-five to one might be standard. You know, we're like three to one, you know, two to one. And I I just think that immediate attention that our kids get and the care is something that I don't want to sacrifice. And I think it's an area of need in in any area or or community, but especially ours.

[11:34]  I wanna go to something you mentioned a few times. yourself fall through the crack. What does that mean for those that may not even have an idea?

[12:09]  Yeah, so it's it's a good question. I I did not have the life experiences that some of our students might be going through. you know, I had two parents in a home who did the best they could to take care of me. They provided for me. We didn't have everything, but they sacrificed so that, you know, my sister and I could be successful. And you know, for me, I I didn't have a lot of those life experiences of economic struggles. Again, we didn't have it all, but we were my sister and I were taken care of. and so I didn't oops sorry about the camera. I d I didn't have the same experience that a lot of our kids had, but I fell through the cracks in that I could miss school. I could, you know, ditch and go to the mall, you know, and just kind of make boneheaded decisions you do when you're 13, 14, your brain's not fully developed. You know, it's like I I fell through the cracks, I think, in a lot of ways. academically in attendance, there just wasn't the follow up, you know, back in the day. And I again, I'm not knocking the the folks at my high school who took, I think, as good care of me as they could, just when you're dealing it was a high school of two thousand other kids.

[12:38]  Mm-hmm.

[13:07]  And so it was much easier to fall through the cracks. Where I think if I was in a smaller environment like ours, it's much more difficult to fall through the cracks with such a small staff to student ratio.

[13:17]  No, that was that was that was actually a good way to put it. I'm gonna already ask that question, man, because you are right. It is so easy for us that may need that extra attention to just make it make almost make us feel like we're the bad kid. Like you know, and I think I felt that a lot in in growing up, like I was the bad kid, but in reality life was really lifing for me at home. so I c I completely when you said fall through cracks, I just want you to kind of explain that 'cause not everyone goes through that, right? Not that's not everybody's story, but I love that you were able to kind of put it to those words. Linda, the why? Like you mentioned Michael mentioned you leaving and coming back to s an organization like that, like this. Why? What what was it that brought you back?

[14:34]  Mm-hmm. Well, so you know, when when I left, I left because I wanted to be with my child and was a new mom and so I didn't I I left it was bittersweet, you know. and I always thought maybe I could come back. And when Mike invited me back, and I came back, I realized that the culture was still very much the same of what T W D has been all these years. It's it's pretty cool because there's been a number of leaders and there's been a number of changing faces throughout the years and there's been some who have stayed for a very long time. And and somehow the culture of Tucson U Development remains real strong in that we put the the youth first and that we are mission oriented and that our staff really care not only about the students that they're serving or the youth that they're serving, they care about their families, they care about anything that's restricting them from being able to be their best selves. and I think that c you know everybody says you know we have a caring environment. Tucson U Development really does have a very caring environment. our programs director through all the changes throughout the years. He's been there for 20 years. And he's just amazing. And so there's a lot of staff like that who've really given so much of their lives in a really passionate way that keeps me very connected to Tucson Development. And you know, being able to see the kids, I I before I used to be able to work a lot more with the interns. Not as much now. But just getting those relationships With them and seeing them flourish after the fact is just something that you can't really explain unless you experience it. and I'm sure all the teachers experience it every single time they have kids, you know, walking off from graduation. You know, it's it's a beautiful thing and the culture remains really strong at Tucson Youth Development as far as serving the youth and I and I adore that.

[15:51]  I love that. How much did Michael pay you to say that though? no. So so good again, right? Michael, like, she's so good with her words. I I I wanna know, Michael, why did you make the call back to to Linda? Obviously, there's a good leadership quality there that she had, which is why you called her back. What what was it?

[15:59]  He did it.

[16:00]  Not enough. Absolutely.

[16:01]  Okay.

[16:17]  Th thank you for the question. I was hoping I would have a chance to to talk about that. So Linda and I worked together previously. I was originally a college accurate advisor when I came here and then I moved into like an interim principal role. But I was serving as one of our school principals when Linda left and I I certainly understood why she left. and then when I moved into this role when when my predecessor retired at the end of twenty twenty during the COVID nineteen pandemic, I was honored and blown away to that the board invited me to serve as the executive director. But in the back of my mind all these years in this role, I kept thinking, you know, we really need we need Linda back. And I kept flirting with my mind with like, I gotta reach out, I gotta reach out. And I I know, Linda, if you remember this. There was a time when you and I kind of connected. I think it was at like Instagram DMs and we chatted a little bit. And I almost asked at that point in time, but I wasn't sure that life experiences, you know, for you and just for for us as an organization were right. But it was last year that I just knew and I knew exactly who I didn't post the position. I went right to Linda because I knew she was

[19:40]  Yeah, yeah.

[19:40]  The right person for the job, but I wasn't sure with she she has a lot going on. At some point she needs to tell you all the things that she I don't know how she does all this, and works for us too. and she's amazing at everything she does. I'm convinced she never sleeps, but I was hoping that she would take the meeting and at least entertain the the offer, and and she's done that. And I tell you, since she's been back, it's it's she describes it as like that long-lost cousin that's back again, and that's it feels better than that. but it feels like a

[19:40]  Yeah.

[21:31]  Yeah. Mm.

[21:31]  Piece that was missing all these years. And, you know, as we emerged from COVID, obviously we had to kind of prioritize certain things. We had some longtime staff members leave. So we had a lot of juggling going on internally. But I'm just so grateful that she's back because Linda spoke earlier about in grant writing, and I think this describes her a lot in her role. you can, I'm not knocking people that provide grant writing services that are remote or outside, but I think an organization is as beautiful and historic as ours, To really understand it. And Linda talked a lot about the caring and the you know, the way that we approach not only each other as staff and colleagues and and and collaborators, but also our the youth and families we serve. Linda has such a good pulse on on that being within the organization. And so anyway, I'm I'm to the moon in back that she even entertained and took the meeting, let alone said yes, I'll call

[21:31]  I think Linda's turning red over there or something. we need to stop it. No. I mean, it's it's the work that you do, right, Michael? And I think sometimes we I'm so bad at actually accepting kind words. And I know right now Linda while we're live is like, holy crap, y'all really doing this to me? because I don't know how to take it myself. But it it is and not that we need it, but it's just so cool to know that someone else sees us because sometimes we do feel like we're alone in the space as leaders.

[21:31]  I it's very red over here. I appreciate y'all.

[21:31]  We feel like we're alone in this space and especially when you're doing like good work, sometimes it's so hard to keep going because you forget the why. And then when someone can kind of paint that picture of why and how valuable you are, you're like, damn, like like I I feel appreciative. You know, I mean I I I've leaven I've left jobs because I didn't feel valued. Clearly you value Linda, you called her back, Linda valued the organization as well and also you as an individual, because she wouldn't have came to work for anybody, right? She knew Michael was at the head of the table.

[21:31]  Yes. Yep.

[21:31]  Michael, what what are some of the things, man, that y po were poured into you that you take leadership wise that you still implement today?

[21:31]  So yeah, and I I to me this starts with my parents, right? My parents always taught me the importance of serving other people and trying to leave the community a little bit better than you found it. And, you know, my parents both did that in in their parenting with my sister and I. my father was a longtime school teacher in the community that we that my parents went to in the schools I went to, you know. And you know, I joked earlier about my adolescent days, you know, when you're I went to the same school district and sometimes the same school where my father taught. and so when I was in high school, my dad's a middle school was a middle school teacher, but When I was acting up in high school, being, you know, an idiot doing the bad decision making the bad decisions I made, when they would look at this old school, right? There were no phone cell phones or anything. They would look up parents, and when they see one parent works for the district, that's the one they call. And I was always like, No, call my mom, call my mom. But but my parents in their own way, my dad obviously being an educator, but my my parents in their own way really instilled in me the importance of serving others and serving your community. And my parents lived that. They were my dad was not too good enough to to send us to the same schools that

[21:31]  Yeah.

[21:49]  educated him and my mom and that he worked in and so that spoke a lot to me. In terms of leadership, I've I've had some amazing leaders who have just built upon that, the idea of selflessness and you do whatever needs to be done. If that's picking up, you know, random paper outside on the ground just so the, you know, the front entrance looks nice, that's what you do. If it's doing, you know, fixing the copy machine that's jammed, that's what you do. If it's driving over to a school because they need admin coverage, that's what you do. And it's not about you, it's about the organization and the mission. And so I am who I am because of many people who throughout my life, even even during my weird ad adolescent days, who loved me and held me accountable and really instilled in me the importance of serving others. And so to me, being able to be a part of this organization in any capacity is is I don't know, it's just like a dream come true. And I'm honored to to be here and be a small part of this historic legacy of of Tucson You Development.

[22:07]  You guys are so good. I love it. And when I think about representation and and what that actually is, it's someone like yourself that could understand that you weren't the best, but look where I'm at today. And now you allow someone else to realize, like, okay, I get it. Maybe, you know, I am who I am today, but look where Michael got. You know, I could be that, right? And you guys being in these spaces and really pouring that fertilizing the future is what I like to say. How cool is it? Because we yeah, we were once young and we were lost and As you mentioned, Michael, someone sees something in us before we were seeing something in ourselves. And how cool is that that now you guys are on the reverse side of that? You guys are not able to pour into somebody else that maybe don't see the value of him, that maybe doesn't know their worth yet, right? Because you got but you guys are that. Linda, why are you so giving? Where where's your heart come into all this? Because you're also a very given, passionate purpose. It looks like a person. Looks like Michael says you do a lot for the community and a lot of work outside of just his organization. Why?

[22:26]  That's a good question. It's just who I am. I yeah, you know, my philosophy is you treat the CEO the same way you're gonna treat a jan you know a janitor, you know, and my I live on that philosophy. and it helps me like with everything. I just think everybody is deserving of opportunities and everybody is deserving of of up of people who believe in them, at least one person, especially kids. There's lots of science behind this that if a if a child has a secure attachment, at least one secure attachment, and it can be through seasons, you know, it doesn't have to be from, you know, the beginning of birth that same person. It can be a strong person throughout seasons of their life. and again there's science with this. that they are a lot more successful if they have one person that believes in them. and I think just it's everybody's God given right to have that. Just I do.

[23:21]  Right. Yeah. And and and who taught you this? Who's poured who poured all this into you?

[23:21]  Mm-hmm. Family, my family, you know, I'm I'm similar to Mike in that, you know, my parents were very hardworking people and I didn't know that we didn't have a lot until I was older because they always provided for us. And then you know, even being a a young woman in her teens who had two stable parents who very much wanted to help me, I was all over the place for whatever reason. and I always say if if people judge me by my actions when I was a teenager I wouldn't have.

[23:21]  Yes.

[23:57]  friends right now right I wouldn't have anybody who cared about me and I look back yeah and I look back on that and I think about even sometimes how I treated my parents when they were trying to help me or school folks when they were trying to help me and I'm like dang I am so blessed that nobody actually gave up on me that people I mean there were some right but for the most part the people who mattered did not give up on me and that happened in the school and work setting as well. So for me I I joke about this all the time. I still have dream nightmares not dreams nightmares and I'm not gonna graduate from high

[23:57]  True.

[23:59]  Yes.

[24:27]  School because I was threading that line. And at that time, there's an interesting story at that time. alternative schools weren't their own thing. I'm that old. you would you would get alternative education through the public school. And I remember I was getting my my finit basically finishing my credits because I was so far behind through a packet program through H Charter High School, which is a Tucson youth development school, but I graduated from a public school because that was the setup at that time, and

[24:27]  Yeah.

[24:42]  Mm-hmm.

[24:57]  That was on a whim. I'm so surprised I graduated. I'm smart. I was smart then, I'm smart now. I just could not focus for whatever reason. and then I was enrolled in workforce development programming as well. It's the same programming, the the Pima County umbrella that Mike talks about. I was in the same type of program. He got stayed, he got set up with Tucson Development. I was put with another another organization called Tucson Urban League, which is no longer in the in our city anymore. and I really feel like those counselors, those case managers, Who put me in the different positions, they they listened, they cared, and I really feel like it had such a great impact on me throughout life that I always talk about it now. I still to this day talk about it now how the workforce development programs kept me from going to the other side where I didn't need to be. And so it's carried with me throughout all these years and then I became a mom. a little older in life, I became a mom, which I'm glad because I feel like I'm a lot much much much more mature. And all these things that I went through as a child, like in schooling and I just want it different for my daughter. And so it kind of just aligns with everything that I am working for an organization that provides alternative education. having the the mindset in the front that I know that if my daughter needs a different type of education, a different type of model, I'd be willing to do that for her, getting her involved in programming and in the community at an early age, because hormones happen. I think that's what happened to me. and it just has kind of followed me through throughout life. I hope that answers your question.

[26:33]  yeah, no, it not only does it answer the question, it also puts a lot of us that are listening and and Michael probably in the in the same category is like, Man, we're not alone, right? Like I was I remember walking out the last day of high school and I was skating by first of all. I graduated like a two point But I also didn't pass the standardized test one of the standardized testing. So as I was walking out, to me I was just receiving a certif certificate of completion and I was okay with that, believe it or not.

[26:33]  Yeah.

[27:00]  I was just excited that I finally did my my time per se, right? And as I was walking out, I they told me, Ephraine, you actually pass and you know, cool, even more exciting to actually walk that. But I'll tell you what else I did because the people that as I'm thirty-six years old now, but the first time that I even knew that I was a leader was because I was running a subway. I s I ne first of all, how life would do this. I never thought I'd work in fast food. Subway's damn near close, right? So I worked at a subway and I just love to work because at home I just home is homing, right? So let's say that. So I prefer to work. Call me. I'm that guy that's gonna pick up hours, all that good stuff. Clearly someone seen it. And it was a district manager that says, Hey man, I think you could be a manager. I'm nineteen years old now running a subway. Someone seen something in me. and from that the ha the trickle effect. And then from there I end up on undercover balls. And then I'm hearing someone tell me, I was twenty years old when I heard someone tell me If my son grows up to be anything like you, I'll be a happy father. And that's Mr. Don Fertman, Chief Development Officer of Subway that I was still friends with. We talk about that person in those seasons, right? and we can all share those stories, man. So it's so cool that we are all in the same boat. We were all these adolescents that if you judged us for that, we probably wouldn't have friends. But that we took also those moments and realized, you know, that's not who we are. And how can we be better? Because someone told us, my wife, I I always give kudos to my wife at that early age. I tell you all this success, but there was still so much trauma that I was living with. and it was her that allowed me to realize, like, yo, I'm with you through through it all with the baggage and all. I didn't realize I was carrying on baggage, Michael. I said, wait a minute. And you know, we were able to really go through that and not that we're perfect, but we realize how important one life is. We're so much grateful for the opportunities that someone provided us and even for our parents that stuck with us. So I say that that that gentleman that gave me the opportunity for Subway when I was 19, I called him just last week.

[27:00]  Yeah.

[28:51]  And I said, hey, I just wanted to say thank you. Thank you for seeing something in me as a leader when I know that I was stubborn and I was so hard to work with. And then I called the other manager that that was like a father figure to me. And I know I gave him crap. I used to always argue him, why do you make me close? You told me I was and he stuck with me. He says, and he would tell like, you gotta be patient, right? and those people that just were patient with me. I I I I've learned patience. So Thank you, Linda. No, you answered a lot of the questions. Not just for me, but ever anybody that's watching and listening. So again, I can't stress it enough, Linda. You gotta do more storytelling, okay? I just know that Michael is about to open up a whole new pizza story. Go ahead, go ahead, tell me.

[30:22]  So well let me tell you one more story. And I'm gonna tell you one more story of how I actually really got a non profit. I was 19 years old and I had graduated high school obviously when I was 18 and I was still kinda lingering. I was doing okay but I wasn't really doing much, right? And I didn't know what I wanted to do. I'd already failed out of a community college for the first semester. I mean I just I don't know. and my aunt, my godmother, said, I'm gonna set you up with an entry level position, just the basic of basic, in a nonprofit, because I want you to see the world. And I'm like, I'm gonna see the world in nonprofit, right? and I was 13 and she got me an interview and I hit it off with my boss at that time and she gave me a chance with some someone very inexperienced like myself. I mean I 19 years old, I didn't have any training, and she gave me a chance, she had me shadow case manager, and then with the with the promise that if I passed my probationary period I could start working with people in case management. And the nonprofit that I was working for was homeless services and What an eye opener. because it wasn't just homeless services we think about like, you know, chronic folks on the street or whatever. No. We were talking about families and babies and it as a nineteen year old it was very much like Whoa, I am really blessed. I've had two parents here who have not given up on me. I have support system, I have all the potential in the world. And it just really opened my eyes. And I never left nonprofit after that. I've always worked in youth serv I knew after that I didn't want to do nonprofit, but I knew I wanted to be in youth. And so the trajectory of my career has always been something in services for youth. and that's really how I got started in nonprofit was my aunt telling me, I want you to see something. Because she had been working for Tucson Urban League for so many years and she had been trying to tell me like

[31:53]  Love it.

[31:53]  Like th it's so much worse. Me how you can do it. You can get out there, you can do it. And I needed to see it myself. Honestly, I needed to see babies being taken away from their parents, you know, or people being their homes being evicted from their homes with nowhere to go, you know, for me to understand the bigger world out there, and figure out a way that I can contribute to it. And I just stayed. That's my story.

[31:53]  Yeah. Yeah. I love it 'cause we 'cause we don't know what we don't know. And s and Linda, I also think that one person, one moment, and one story changes someone's life and clearly you had a little bit of both, right? You didn't know what you didn't know. That one person, that one moment, that you know, one story changed your life, and here you are still doing that work all these years later. I wouldn't say all these 'cause that makes you feel old. So I would say just a few years later. listen, I mean we wrap this up, Michael. Great conversation. But Michael

[31:53]  Yeah. It's okay. I earned it.

[31:53]  Yeah.

[32:20]  Where do you see the out of the organization? You have a a great right hand woman man that is obviously sees the vision just as clear as you see the vision, knowing the need. It's much more than what you guys just have currently. There's the bigger need. What what do you see? I love to hold people accountable. So next time we're talking, Michael, you're telling me like, yeah, we were able to accomplish it. What is it?

[32:40]  So first and foremost, you know, we're we're as a nonprofit, we're always looking for additional funding that we can, you know, there's less and less funding out there right now. It is what it is. You know, we've had to as an organization, not only with the staff, but just overall, do more with less. And we're always gonna be doing anything we can. But I I would love to grow our workforce development programming. We do work with our local county, which is great. I'd love to expand that. we've done some pilot programming thanks to Linda, since she's been back with small grants. with our our charter high school students. but I'd love to expand that just so that we can do more over time. So hopefully we win the metaphorical or literal lottery for nonprofits. But I just want to see us extend and diversify our our workforce development programs and that w while we meet a need right now, we all know that there are more and more needs out there and more, you know, things that we can do. And then on the school side we want to obviously we need more students. But again, as I mentioned earlier We have capacity to serve more students, but I don't wanna have a thousand students at one school. I guess that's a good problem to have, but I don't wanna lose the essence of who we are. and and lose that real intimate connection that our our amazing school staff have with the kids. because I'm convinced the the larger class sizes and the larger enrollment is good for a lot of reasons, but can be inadvertently negative because then you kind of lose that touch. And I again I think our population needs that small, intimate environment. So I I hope for that, you know, for us in the ten years down the road that we're thriving, our workforce development programs are diversified and we're serving more youth in different ways. And I hope that our schools are are a little bit more full than they are now, but not so much that we lose who we are.

[34:19]  How long have you been the executive director now?

[34:21]  this is my fifth year.

[34:23]  Okay, okay. So yeah man, you got another c you got a lot of years left, that means you're still a baby at this role right here. All right, good, good. I I appreciate you guys. I really appreciate the conversation. Where can people find out more about what you guys are doing? Is is it social media, you guys on LinkedIn, what is the website?

[34:29]  I'm glad one of us is convinced, but thank you.

[34:41]  Yeah, so our website is TucsonYouth.org. we are on socials. We're primarily on Instagram at Tucson Youth Development. and then we were on Facebook at as well at TYD Stars.

[34:53]  Love it. Well guys, I truly appreciate Michael, Linda for being leaders that are authentically yourselves. I can tell by the way you guys show up. I just have to leave you with Michael. I see all these stickers in the back. What is that one that is there one that meaningful to you back there, man? What is that one that you that you just enjoy looking at? Maybe some positive vibes or something.

[35:01]  Meet church.

[35:10]  You know, so I'll I'll shout out Traeger. Traeger is a grill company, they're the original pellet grill company. When I moved into administration, this is nothing work related, but when I moved into the principal role, I got a Traeger grill and I started cooking, and that's my like therapy after hours. I love to go out there and cook. Sometimes I mess stuff up, sometimes it works out. but yeah, Traeger is the orange sticker on the top. buying that grill changed my life. It's like a therapy. My wife doesn't cook anymore. It's yeah, it's that's my thing. But you can tell I'm a sticker nerd.

[35:10]  Mm.

[35:10]  okay, okay.

[35:10]  What?

[35:31]  that is. No, that's good. I every time I go to Walmart or Sam's Club, I'm looking at the flat grills that you can like, you know, more hibachi style I guess. I don't know. I g I even cook at home, but Michael, it might be a game changer, you know, I might buy it and I might be the one cooking, so

[35:52]  Yep. Those griddles are amazing. You can do so much with them. So yeah, get get yourself one.

[35:53]  Yeah.

[35:59]  I'm waiting for it to it's at two fifty right now, but I I am very frugal with my money, so I'm waiting for it to go down a little bit more. then I was like, you know, I'll build something around it, I'll make it all nice, and and maybe I'm the you know, calling Michael. Hey man, I'm over here on this grill burning stuff. What what do I do? No, that's cool. That's cool. Well guys, if you guys are still we're invited to the cookout, it looks like Linda.

[36:07]  He cooks for us too. Yeah. We just had one last weekend last week.

[36:16]  A anytime, anytime, brother.

[36:21]  I love it. Guys, if you guys are still watching, make you guys do like, subscribe, and comment. These are the conversations that we're having with leaders all throughout our country that are doing some amazing work. So if you guys also want to tap into what they're doing or connect with them, they've given up the social, they've given up the website. connect with them. And Michael and Linda, I'm looking forward to what you guys do next and the growth that you guys have. I mean Fred No You Wrestling. This is Michael and Linda. I keep saying No Your Wrestling, but it's really heart and hustle podcast. I'll tell you No You Wrestling after this. All right, guys, I'll see you on the next one. Laders.

[36:22]  Thank you