How Colonel Duncan Milne's "No Logo" Strategy Quietly Supports 700+ Veteran Communities

[0:16]  Welcome back to another episode here on the Heart and Hustle podcast. Listen, this next guest, 25 years of flying for the Marines, and now he's building a network that quietly supports thousands of veterans without the noise. the spotlight or the red tape. Duncan is here and trust me, this episode is bigger than a uniform. Duncan, you spent over two decades flying for the Marines. Do you remember that exact moment you knew you were you were done with that chapter?

[0:43]  Yeah, it was I do. And you know, it's a great lead in because I always said I'd stop the minute it stopped being fun. And it was hard to not be fun flying a Cobra attack helicopter all day.

[0:54]  I can imagine. Um, but when I started answering more questions for general officers than I did for Marines that were working side by side with me, that's when I kind of knew it was time to move on and go do something else. And luckily, I able to walk into my second purposeful life after the Marine Corps.

[1:12]  Sure is, man. From from cockpit to community work, how the hell did that shift even happen? Like, what snapped for you to say, you know what, like I'm not happy here, but I'm going to find happiness elsewhere and especially in a nonprofit. Yeah, I think it was kind of a journey that we all have. Um, nobody figures it out exactly right the first time,

[1:31]  you know. I ended up uh leaving the Marine Corps in 2011 and I did what typical Marine aviators go and do and I did business development trying to sell widgets to the man and uh there was nothing more repellent to me than doing that trying to you know it's all about leveraging your friend friends and trying to persuade them to get you in the door to sell things. I thought that was a bad way to spend my time. Um, so luckily I had a a great friend I met while on active duty in 2008, a man named Colonel David Sullin, United States Army, not to be held against him. Um, but we met and were on the on the joint chiefs of staff for several years together. He worked the M East desk. I worked defense support civil authorities things in Pentagon, which was perfect job for Cobra pilot. Not really. That's very sarcastic. Um, and Dave got moved over to be a special assistance for, uh, Admiral Mike Mullen. And really, uh, his job was to interact across the country in communities, uh, in response to a simple question. And the simple question was Admiral Mullen in his duties, uh, traveled the country, and he'd have a lot of people coming up to him saying, "I want to help veterans. I just don't know how."

[2:48]  Yeah. Um because there's still a perception out there, I'll tell you which is frustrating and baffling to me is that DoD, Department of Defense, and the VA do everything for veterans. And while they have great reach and great resources and the ability to put that to work, they can't be everywhere at every time and people fall through the gaps. Um so that's why the foundation of Dixon Center became let's start a community insurgency. Let's get out to every state in the country, as many communities as we can, and see what the problems are on site there, not what is perceived to be the problem inside the beltway. And that's what we've been doing for the last 13 years now. Uh, and I joined Dixon Center in 2015. Um, and now serving as the president of the organization.

[3:40]  Oh my god. and and and now you're not just building programs, you're actually building up communities, which is quite rare, right, from what you were doing. Um, why do you take that less sexy, more strategic route?

[3:52]  Because at the end of the day, it's an answer to a question I was asked one day. I was asked who do I work for?

[4:00]  I said I said not you. I work for the veterans and then when I stop working for the veterans, I'll go find something else to do. So, let's keep it in mind that our noble purpose is simply to make the lives of veterans and their families and those touched by military service better. That's our why. That's not a big complicated issue.

[4:22]  That's the why, man. And and when you think about just you, you spent so many years um in the service. Is that what led you to say hell yes to this opportunity? Well, it's it's just it's the servant leader syndrome. I think we all want to contri continue to have a reason to get up and we want to continue to see the people that we care for and that we work with thrive. Um, and it's not such a transactional thing. It's more

[4:52]  it's more a spiritual thing. I'd almost say that we want to make sure that, you know, I I've relied on a lot of people when I was flying those Cobra helicopters, and I kind of look it as a as an obligation to them and people like them to pay back and serve them.

[5:10]  So, for you, it's just giving back to those that you felt gave to you.

[5:13]  Yep. Absolutely.

[5:15]  I love it. You know, I I think about um you just mentioning leaving and finding that happiness. Um what's your next calling? And I I have a neighbor actually Marine as well. I'm I have to let him know that I've spoke to you because every time I tell him I'm uh a Marine or he's excited, but if I tell him an army or I tell him navy, he he's not so excited, right? So I have to tell him is definitely a Marine. Okay. Um but I at one point I was telling him he went into the electrical route, you know, that's what he does for his career. And at one point he was asking himself like what's next, right? He got let go from his job. And I I think the nonprofit space is just a a good place to be. You know, I ask him like, "What makes you happy?" You know, Marines obviously, so I think about him all the time. It's like find that thing that makes you happy and go for it. A lot of the times it's not the money. Um but when people are just comfortable in something, it's kind of hard to to let go. But it seems that you was you were been always comfortable on helping others, right? From being in the Marines where you were um really fighting for our country that goes helping others there. and now you're you're helping your brothers and sisters that maybe you at one point you've needed their help, right? Making sure that they're actually well. So, I actually love this and and the programs you're building and helping over 700 uh communities, right? And I think 11 million organizations. Um but no direct services. That's kind of sounds backwards. Why does that work?

[6:37]  It does. Well, what when we stood up the center, we realized that there needed to be a focal point. And so think of center as a place where people go.

[6:46]  People go there and gathered there for

[6:49]  mentorship, leadership, resources, information. Um so it's that kind of center. It's not that we're the middle of the universe. It's that we're a center where people can go to. We decided our model was going to be very different. It was going to be focusing on organizational impact. How can we help organizations all around the country and in some cases around the globe increase their impact on veterans in their communities? Because if you've met a veteran, you met a veteran. You met what? People know what we are. They don't know who we are.

[7:23]  If that makes sense.

[7:24]  Sure.

[7:25]  So,

[7:25]  and the same thing with communities. If you've been to a community, you've been to a community. I mean, Portland, Maine, which I live near, is nowhere like Portland, Oregon. And I bless my lucky stars every day. That's true. Nothing against Portland, Oregon. Just the same thing. Augusta, Maine, Augusta, Georgia. Two very different environments. And I look at every town as kind of their own board of directors. They have, you know, their requirements, their capacity, and their resources. and they decide where they're going to apply those tools of power or influence to affect the the the uh well-being of the veterans and people touched by military service in the community and they're all different. I mean the concerns in every community are very very different. So we go in there and we listen because God gave us two of these and one of these and we just want to make sure we understand and then we can help them collaborate with other organizations whether they be all members of society, faith-based organizations, government organizations, civic organizations, academia, you name it. Everybody comes together. And the question I always ask everybody is who's not in the room? Who is it there that we need to talk to? because we need to have open eyes and open minds to all sorts of alternatives that are out there that may not be just the cookie cutter solution because there is no cookie cutter human being. Everybody's different.

[8:52]  Duncan, why you were spent so many years in the in the air. Um you're hell of a leader on the floor, man. Uh some of the other things you talked about last time was and and most nonprofits, especially mine, love to do this. Slap their logo on everything, right? It just makes it seem like people are going to to know the nonprofit exists. But you got this no ego, no logo mantra. Like where did that mindset come from, man? You're very unique at the things that you're doing.

[9:18]  I I think it's it's about getting stuff done.

[9:23]  And it's about again going back to having an open mind about alternatives. um when we compete in the in the veteran space and there's a lot of organizations out there, probably too many. Um one of the challenges a struggle for recognition and the struggle for resources. And we find that we're able to bring organizations together to cooperate and collaborate much more effectively if we check our egos and our logos at the door. The only time you'll see a Dixon Center logo is on our website or on my shirt if I choose to wear one. There it is, folks.

[9:59]  If I choose to wear one.

[10:00]  Um, and and that's on purpose because we don't want to take the credit.

[10:06]  Yep.

[10:06]  We want the people who are doing the work to take the credit. We're happy to help and partner with all these people, but I don't need to say, "Hey, Organization X, if I work with you, you better plaster my logo all over your door." I don't care about that. the

[10:21]  people that know know and and we're perfectly comfortable to that. Um, so it's just that open-mindedness. And I I I'll tell a story I mentioned last time we spoke was I was down in Austin, Texas several years ago giving a speech and I got done and went to the back of the room as I'll typically do and just watch the events go on and I had a bunch of folks from the local veteran serving organizations in the Austin area come up and hey, we're doing this, we're doing drum circles, we're doing ecoin therapy, we're doing all this stuff. Do you think that's crazy? I said, absolutely not. Who am I to say anything's crazy?

[11:00]  Yeah.

[11:01]  You know, whatever works for this person may not work for the other, and that's fine. But at least it's working for this person. So, let's get out of our safe spots and start coming up with innovative, brilliant solutions founded in what people really need, not what we think they need.

[11:17]  I love that. I love that you say innovative. So, I sit here and ask you, um, I think you mentioned 2015 is when you took board. Was that correct? 2015. So almost 10 years. What did you kind of walk into when it comes to nonprofit size and what have you been able to do to scale um you know right now we're in a space where people are wanting those those ideas, those visions because of funding being cut, right? So anything that you can kind of share on 10 years of being in the space that maybe people can start to implement?

[11:46]  Well, I think we're kind of a different model in a lot of ways. We're purely filmrop. We only eat what we kill. And I that may offend some people.

[11:54]  I love you, bro. I love you.

[11:57]  But um that affords us a big degree of freedom. A lot of people would say that that puts us at great risk. Um but as you alluded to, government programs aren't forever.

[12:10]  U a lot of organizations hitch your wagon on that and they come and go with the the at the whim of of government programs. I think the worst thing you could possibly do is go into a community and create some sort of program that supports whatever cause, get people hooked on it, and then two years later come and pull the carpet out with no backup. So, we want to build sustainable programs over time supported by the community that is invested in it. Um, and that's really kind of the business model. We don't have a big full-time footprint. We rely a lot on some contractors, volunteers, ambassadors, and part-time people. Um, we are part of a larger organization called the FedCap Group out of New York City, which is a a conglomerate, for lack of better term. I think of it as a general dynamics of nonprofits. Um and they have you know 20 plus organizations spreading or crossing all the different demographics that you can think of with a sole focus on knocking down economic barriers and we are the act the military and veterans arm functional arm that lays across all of that. So anybody that comes up with something in the FedCap group that wants to integrate veterans and military service members or families they come talk to us. Um, so what we're really trying to do is get other organizations that don't do veteran services involved. That's when you go back to that number, the 11 million you talked about before.

[13:44]  Yeah.

[13:45]  There are 11 million organizations in this country that don't integrate veterans into their service. And I'm not saying you need to build a new program for them. I'm saying you need to leverage your existing programs. Just be welcome. Just put a sign, a welcome sign up on the front door. We welcome veterans and military families. And you know, most organizations if they asked who their clients are, it'd be about 20 or 30% would be veterans. They may not identify as that, but that's the normal population depending give or take where you're at.

[14:16]  Wow.

[14:17]  And there's 80,000 new veterans every year

[14:21]  come out of the service. Normal attrition.

[14:23]  So they're always going to be there. We're always going to be the fabric of society.

[14:27]  Yeah. Yeah. and like you mentioned 180,000 every year and walk away sometimes not knowing what the next steps are. Um which is right what what you guys do. Talk about the 180,000. What's the first thing they lose when they when they leave?

[14:43]  Well, I think it's when you're on active duty or active reserve or reserves to a degree out there, you live in a different ecosystem. My last duty station was Marine Corps Air Station Miramar. I retired in 2001. Every military base is basically an industrial park for lack of a better term. And it's a closed society. I mean, has it own schools, has it own grocery stores, department stores, dentists, doctors, daycare, auto garage, bowling alley, you name it, it's got everything. So, these families move aboard and they get used to having all those things there. And I always think of this fictional Marine NCO at Myiramar with his wife and maybe two kids getting out of the service. They walk out the gate and the gate slams behind them. The storm clouds gather, bats start flying around, there's lightning bolts over it, and you might as well have dropped them off in the middle of Bolivia because they're just as it's just as foreign. So they have to adjust to new things. Adjust to new schools, new doctors. How do you go this way? How do you go that way? Where do I want to live? And one of our big challenges is that first 90 days, 90 to 180 days when they walk out that gate, it's a very vulnerable time. Pay structures change. A lot of people don't realize a lot of the pay we get when we're on active service is tax exempt. Hazard's duty pay, flight pay, housing allowances, all that stuff. So when you come out of active service and live on the civilian side of the fence, you have to make a lot more money to have the same standard of living. So that creates challenges for the families where a mom might not have been working or the the caregiver for the kids. Um dad's got to get another job or three to maintain the same income level that they had when they're on active duty. So that's a real tough adjustment. And what we try and do is enable organizations to put in programs that buffer that that make it so they're prepared before they leave service and have a guaranteed path forward. They may not stay in that, but at least they got a guaranteed job that they know they're going to in a place they want to live so they can thrive. So take away that uncertainty, that danger, because when there's vulnerability and plans don't work out, people keep secrets. Secrets are damaging things and they lead to a lot of bad habits which leads to isolation. The crippling epidemic of isolation that a lot of our veterans have leads to our high rates of veteran suicide which we shouldn't and can't tolerate. Um so if we can meet the veterans where they are and accompany them as they're in their journey as they go into civilian life and make sure that they're set up for success, that's a win.

[17:36]  Hey, real quick. Have you enjoying the podcast? We first want to say thank you and we also just want to give you a little insight of what we're up to at Francis. Some don't even realize that we're working with organizations to help them use AI to create that real human communication experiences where that's actually supporting your your families, those patients or the entire community. We're actually creating tech that connects. Check it out. Francis.ai.

[18:03]  It is 100% and and I love the work that you're doing. And I actually want to go back to something as you said earlier as well. Um you said who's not in the room. Um right but you also in a space of technology that kind of lives in our room AI right you talked about innovation. Um, is that someone that you you guys have brought into the room as a resource to really amplify what you guys are doing? And what are you guys doing in the AI space? Cuz so many leaders are still just almost touching the surface or still living in fear, but you've kind of said, "No, this is this is very beneficial to us. What does that look like?"

[18:37]  It absolutely is. I think just in terms of data and demographics and things like that and where the problems are and how do we solute solve problems or even identify them so we can get ahead of them. One of the biggest challenges we have is, you know, this a lot of the services are in place for our veterans and their families in many parts of the country. In some they're not at all and there are few raging brush fires out there that we have to address. So in some of our project we work with partners that are AI platforms to try and drill down into what the real root cause of problems is. Um so that's how we're using it right now. And of course that's evolved. We have several projects that are relying on AI and over the next couple of years as we learn, as the space learns, and we get smart enough to ask what kind of questions we need to ask. Um, so I'm excited about I'm kind of a I went to a geeky school, so I'm kind of a nerdy guy, so I like

[19:34]  how big is the organization now?

[19:36]  Well, if you tell our full-time, part-time contractors, volunteers, and ambassadors, around 200 folks scattered throughout the country uh in different levels of interaction. They're great eyes and ears and we have just a tremendous uh asset and that's our founder uh our chairman Dave Sutherland who has probably the most powerful rolodex of anybody in this space and you know we we talk to mom and pop on Main Street to the people at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Um, and in some way I think Dave has all those things in his head, knows how to get a hold of everybody, or at least he tries to, and I try pull away from as many as I can so I can remember, too. But there's a lot.

[20:18]  That's cool. What are some of the goals that you guys um yourself and the founder are looking for for the organization? When you talk about scaling, um, are you guys looking to scale? Do you feel like you're in a good place? You mentioned 100,000 people that may need the assistance. What does that look like? I think you know if you talk about programmatic buildout we have a very developed plan for that it's all based on resources and what we can do um maybe regional so we can focus have a person in regional area instead of just a you know we're a national organization with local impact and that's great but sometimes there needs to be more focus um we have pillars of work that we do that we'd like to have specific people assigned to those um in regions I think that'd be Good. But you know what we really want to do? My number one goal.

[21:06]  What's What is it?

[21:07]  Put us out of business.

[21:11]  Explain more for those that are listening.

[21:13]  I want to know I want an environment where our services are no longer needed and we don't have veteran homelessness increasing. We don't have veteran suicide increasing. we don't have all these challenges that unfortunately create an air of people throw their hands up there and shrug and there's nothing more we can do and and that's that's damning statement.

[21:39]  This question just came up because of your comment that you just made. So, thinking about the military, those that serve our country, are you guys experiencing um therapy through the journey or is this something that you guys seek after the journey?

[21:54]  I I think we're all different. Like I said, I don't want to put anything with a broad brush.

[21:59]  Got it.

[22:00]  I don't I don't know what I'd be doing if I didn't do this. And is it cathartic or therapeutic for me to be doing this kind of work? No, absolutely. And I I know I can speak for our chairman. Same thing. is part of our our healing or our sense of well-being. It's a safe thing that we want to do. Um, and everybody's got their different motivations, but I'll tell you, going back to my not making widgets for the man comment,

[22:24]  I'm not doing it for the money. You know, you know, the nonprofit space.

[22:29]  Yeah, 100%.

[22:30]  Yeah.

[22:30]  You know, which is so cool, man. I've spoken now to a judge that left being a judge to get into the nonprofit space. I and because his whole thing was like I'm here putting in kids away for for life or for years. Why am I not on the opposite side where I'm helping the kids before they get to you know the courtroom? Um I've seen an attorney that after 10 years of being an attorney also walked away from money. We talk about the you know but it's not about the money you know when people find purpose and realize like man it's actually more fulfilling to be on the nonprofit side cuz you truly see impact almost instantly. So every day you go home you know you just go to sleep happy like man I truly made a difference. And for your case, for another veteran just like me, you know, someone that experienced life, I was able to help them so they don't have to walk the life that maybe others have uh that you've seen come across, you know. Um so I love it. I think I think the nonprofit is a beautiful place. I love that you keep saying it was never for the money. It's surely out of love, passion, purpose.

[23:25]  Yeah. Let me tell

[23:25]  So kudos to you.

[23:26]  Can I tell you one story that kind of drives it home and if I choke up, I apologize.

[23:31]  All good. All good. I uh I was down and you know I'll make it very generic. I was in a certain part of the country speaking and I'd been working with a young gentleman for a long time that was running a a a program uh basically to bring veterans together. And this was to try and get them out of that sense isolation that leads people to making very rash bad decisions and taking their lives. So this big organization, they're all out in this field. They're talking and having a good time cooking burgers or doing whatever they're doing. And this one person was the organizer went off and isolated himself away from the group. I go, that's kind of weird. And I went over to him. I started having a discussion. And I'd known him for six, 12 months, working relationship with what's going on. and he was very quiet and sullen and I I go let's talk about what's going on and we had a 20-minute discussion and he at the end of that discussion he goes you just saved a life today. Wow. It it is that that you never know. I always say you never know when you talk to somebody where they're at mentally.

[25:00]  Yeah.

[25:01]  Why? Why kindness matters?

[25:03]  Absolutely.

[25:04]  Why just saying hello, allowing someone to know that they exist, someone that they matter, that someone cares for them, that they're seen, all that. Right. So Duncan, I can only imagine he was going through so many emotions in his mind.

[25:18]  Well, you know what?

[25:19]  I say that to everybody I speak to. Every organization will hear this line is instead of saying thanks for your service, peel the onion back another layer or two and have a conversation. So ask ask the service member, ask the whatever what you do. Then they won't talk about themselves. Most likely they'll talk about the people they serve with on the left and the right. But it's just having the wherewithal to dig just a little deeper and invest yourself in their life just a little bit more than a flippant. Hey, thanks for your service if you have the time. I always encourage people to do that. You may run into the guy that I ran into on that day.

[26:02]  Wow, that was good. That was a good story, Duncan. I see why you said that you could possibly choke up a little bit because I'm It It truly does matter, man. Like we all have with a family of friends that go through these moments

[26:16]  and we have to even though they may look strong on the outside, we're all humans.

[26:22]  I you know what I mean?

[26:23]  I cannot tell you how many people I know or touched our staff that we know personally that you wake up and you hear a tale that they chose death by suicide. And at that your very point, why didn't I know,

[26:41]  why didn't I have signs slapping me in the face to go grab this person say it's not worth it. You're important. You know, it's it's incredibly frustrating, especially when it happens time and time again.

[26:54]  I love, man, I love that you always have this giving heart. You know, I I was just talking to someone. It's like you go through life and sometimes don't even realize what you have. It just kind of connects like you really start to connect the dots in your life. Um, and when I sit here and think about who you were all these years ago as as a pilot, you weren't just a pilot, man. You were out here really changing lives already. Not so much just for the country, but really inside just the Marines corpse, right? And what that actually looked like. So, I I respect that. Um, you don't want people to create new veteran programs. You actually want them to just make room. What does it actually look like for someone that is listening right now that is asking themselves how can I make a difference?

[27:32]  Yeah. The challenge is um especially in your experience in nonprofit where you understand this um there's a phrase called founder syndrome

[27:44]  where you stand up an organization and you know it becomes an embodiment of you and you become an embodiment of it. Sometimes it stifles innovation and it makes it so you're not willing to collaborate and let people take credit for other work. Um the whole point at the end of the day, like I said when we started out today, is to make the lives of veterans and their families better. Period. Period. It's not to make the life in your organization better.

[28:14]  It's to make the lives of the, you know, or whatever cause you're aligned.

[28:18]  Yep. Yep. Um, so I think people just have to be a little more open to uh understanding who their clientele is, understanding how they can welcome new clientele. You know, we have human services or veteran services and human service, but they're all just human services for veterans. I mean, let's not make them special. You know, there are some peculiar special things that veterans and certain segments of the veteran population uh you have to pay special attention to. But if you simply just simply open your programs to be welcoming to veterans and their families in your community, that's a big win. That's talking to the 11 million that I talked to before. And it can be like I said all sectors of society, the labor market be you know schools, churches, all this stuff just be welcome. And you know we have such a disparity in this country of people who serve and don't serve that there's a large population in the country that just simply don't know what it's like to be in the military and can't relate to it and understand the long-term implications of of service. Um, so that takes a little bit of deliberate education to be able to pull that in. And we provide that to organizations all over all over the country. We'll go to a community and bring in every every member of that community uh that's in some sort of leadership position and have that discussion with them. Well, why aren't you doing this? Or if you want to, how can I help you do this?

[29:55]  So, it's it's really what people want to do and what they're able to do in their communities. I ask you with all the rooms that you've kind of been in, whether it was rooms of with those in power, policy, and sometimes even pressure, what what's something people get wrong about serving veterans?

[30:12]  Uh, assuming a lot of things, assuming that there's a cookie cutter solution to every problem. That's the biggest thing. Let me take this cookie cutter and apply it over this thousand brains. And that's simply not going to work. uh we have to be nuanced enough to understand and we also have to understand people not procedure and process. We have big bureaucracies in this country that impact a lot of things we do and they're more concerned about procedures and process

[30:39]  than they are about

[30:42]  this.

[30:43]  And I say that, you know, I and I'm not beating on the VA. The VA changes millions of lives every day in a very positive way. But they don't do this. They don't talk

[30:54]  people.

[30:55]  Yeah.

[30:56]  Um, so that's a big challenge

[30:58]  and that's why I love the platform because I'm learning a lot myself about just the VA world, right? And the needs and and some of the experiences that are are happening to on a daily, right? We see them. We see some of them downtown, you know, and homeless and we ask ourselves why. How did that person serve our country? But we allow them to live out on the streets,

[31:21]  right? Uh uh and it's because we don't understand what's going on. And it's because we're not making room, right? Not saying as individuals, but our businesses, are we making room? And I I don't know that I've been with a company. I guess I have with the airline industry. I think they really cared for the vets in a certain way, but it it is not something that you go to these companies um and they're putting something in place for someone to easily get hired. Um coming out,

[31:46]  you'd be surprised. There actually are a lot of a lot of companies that really make a concerted effort that quite honestly the unemployment rate in this country is higher than the veteran unemployment rate. Always has been always been in the last 1015 years has been. It's not the unemployment rate. Remember when I talked about having to take three jobs?

[32:08]  Yeah.

[32:09]  It's the unemployment rate. So veterans are getting out and they're not being hired to the level of the skills and attributes that they've acquired whether they're at a military service. They're having to take the first job that may be something that they don't necessarily want to do. And remember I talked about that wage gap of tax exempt and non- taxexempt money.

[32:28]  Combine those things and that creates a lot of these problems. And even when you talk about health homelessness, it's a sense of selfworth. how you know society doesn't they value me while I was in the military but now I get out and I'm you know not valued it to the level that I should and that can lead to again desperation isolation you know bad things

[32:52]  yeah know I it it kind of is really shocking to think someone can spend 20 years serving our country and come out and you're just the average Joe

[33:02]  right like wait a minute dude did this person not just do all these these things for the last 20 years and all of a sudden they're kind of starting back from the bottom up. Which is why I guess I we see a lot of individuals go to school, right? Try to hurry up and get that education because now it's like a whole black and white thing. It's not so much experience, which is crazy to me, by the way. I think experience beats out black and white every day, but who to say? Uh I've been I've been I've seen that. I've seen where I've worked for a company for eight years,

[33:30]  hands-on experience, and I think you can't beat that. but then someone comes out of uh you know college with a four-year degree that I run circles around but that person got the opportunity and it's kind of very similar to what you're talking about right like spend 20 years uh doing crazy amounts of things I mean flying planes and then you come out and they tell you that you got to work somewhere like Home Depot I don't know you know what I mean like very random like wait a minute um now this is really good I love I love the work that you guys are truly doing and I'm sorry that we have to start wrapping this up a little bit but what can people find more about the nonprofit. Are you website? Are you guys on social media for people going to be able to connect with you?

[34:07]  We're on all social media platforms. Um, you can go to our website, dixonscenter.org. Dixonenter is all one word. Um, our parent company is fedcapgroup.org if you want to look at where we sit under. Um, but uh we're out. We're all over the country. I was at a national um veteran small business conference this last week in Orlando. Um, Oh man, I wish I would have known, man. That's where I'm at. Duncan.

[34:34]  Yeah. So, a little too hot down there for me. It's 40.

[34:37]  Oh, super hot. Oh my god, it's so hot.

[34:41]  But, uh,

[34:41]  it's funny. You say you were in Orlando and now I see the face red. It's probably because you were in Orlando. That's what it was.

[34:47]  Yeah. I am I am what I call pigmentally challenged.

[34:52]  You know, things like that. You can reach out to me directly at dm dixoncenter.org. Um, and like I said, our offices administratively are in Manhattan. I only go down there when I have to. Uh, we are we've been a virtual organization well before the pandemic. Uh, we used to work on King Street or King Street, K Street in Washington, lobbyist Row there till 2017 when we left our previous organization and came to the FedCap group and we've been virtual ever since. So, I have the joy of living in a cabin on the lake up in Maine and travel.

[35:29]  Oh, man.

[35:31]  And I'm happy when

[35:32]  Why Why you got to rub that in at the end? Why do you got to rub that in, Ducky?

[35:35]  No, I'm just joking. So, the blind question.

[35:37]  You You'll be rubbing it in come February.

[35:41]  Really? I sure will.

[35:43]  Um, blind question time, man. This was a really good question from the last leader. What business philosophy or leadership lesson is still true today that was true when you first started? Oh, that's good. Leadership lesson. Um, you don't have people you work that work for you. You have people you work with.

[36:06]  That is true. That would always be true actually. I love it. I love it. And what's your blind question to the next lead that we have here?

[36:13]  This is a simple one. Um, I even wrote it down. What is your special sauce and why does it matter? What is your special sauce? I love how you even put the special sauce in. We just make it just kind of adds to the heart hustle. Um well, Duncan, we definitely do appreciate you and the work that you're doing for our veterans. Um truly I I know that you wake up every morning and it's it's about how can I serve our veterans so that they have a better day today than they had yesterday. So, we truly appreciate what you continue to do because the work doesn't stop. Right after this conversation, you're back at work.

[36:49]  Remember, if I'm out of work, we solved all our problems. Yeah. Okay. Listen, Dean's still dropping gems. He's still dropping gems. Well, Duncan, thank you so much for the time. We appreciate you. We'll have to do this again. For go those that are watching. You guys can also be an impact. You guys got to just educate yourselves. And I'm happy that we were able to have some sort of education on here on what it actually looks like to help our veterans that we see on a day-to-day better conversations, right? Learning people uh and meeting them where they're at, but just not asking and and saying thank you for serving, but asking them how they're doing. Ask them about those moments. They they love to share. As Duncan mentioned today, they love to share. But just have you could literally change your life by just asking a question. Guys, it's been at the Heart and Hustle podcast. We appreciate you. Don't forget to like, share, and subscribe. We'll catch you guys on the next one. Lers.