How David Wollman Left Corporate to Build a Purpose-Driven Caregiving Business

[0:00]  When a family comes to us, um, they're they're usually drowning. They're looking for a lifeline. I mean, they are so stressed out about mom or dad knowing that they've already gone beyond the point where really they're safe at home. Um, and they don't know what to do. Again, nothing in life prepares us for this chapter of of navigating and and now being in a sense being the parent over our parents. All right. Isn't that crazy? the roles the roles get reversed and that frustration that the parents used to have with us as teenagers is now, you know, they're acting more like the teenagers and we're being the parents and and we now have all that stress that they used to have. Yep. And it's funny because I I often use that uh when they don't want care and they say,

[0:48]  "Oh, you know, why are you worried about us? We don't need, you know, you don't need to be worried about us." And I said, "Remember when they were teenagers leaving the house and they used to tell you, don't worry about me. I could take care of myself. Well, you know, you're lucky to have kids that love you and and are worried about you and uh you know, so maybe it's time to listen to them.

[1:23]  Welcome back to another episode here on the Heart and Hustle podcast. A lot of people climb the ladder only to realize it's learning, leaning the wrong way. What made you stop and say, "This is the legacy I want to leave." David, last time I spoke to you, you were just so excited and just talked about the legacy. And I think it's uh really important when people talk about the legacy they leave in the nonprofit because it's always about giving. What does that mean to you?

[1:46]  Well, you know, there's a difference between being in the corporate world to serve yourself uh and your career. Um some usually disguised as serving your family, but so many of us are really um even though we know we're serving our family, it's sort of serving our own egos in climbing the corporate ladder or or whatever you kind of view as your form of success, whether it's monetary or material acquisition or whatever. Um but uh you know when you're when you really transition um uh if it's within you to transition to wanting to help people um and truly help people not just as a kind of a abstract thought but really impact people's lives in a positive way. I think that's when you you know if you're lucky you make that transition into a different attitude uh

[2:34]  toward what you're doing. Um and it permeates everything from um the kind of work you're doing to the way you conduct yourself in that work and the people around you. David Woman with us today, a seasoned executive who has made a bold pivot from corporate leadership to running a caregiving agency that's giving lives every single day. David, we definitely thank you for taking the time to really just um fill our cups today. You know, so I always say when you speak to another leader, it's filling cup. And it's not every time that you get to speak to another leader and get your cup filled. So I'm excited about today, man.

[3:10]  Uh what was a moment of friction where you really felt pulled towards something more meaningful than just um bottom line wins? Yeah, I don't really know that I would say that it was a a distinct moment, but it was something that um kind of germinated over time as I was getting a little bit older. Um, even though I was very successful in my corporate career, I just started to feel a little bit of a tug to want to do something that had that, you know, more meaningful impact on people's lives. Um, I had been doing mission trips for my church, Habitat for Humanity. So, I started to get a taste of really kind of what it felt like to be serving. And I thought, you know what? um is there a way to really transition that into my professional life? And um it just so

[4:02]  happened that u oh goodness now it's about 15 years ago or so um it really started to come into focus and as luck would have it uh I was running a company I'd been president of three different companies over the prior 15 years of starting this business. um the company was being purchased. I had uh the opportunity to maybe look for another president's position because that the purchasing company was putting their management team in place. Or maybe it was time to scratch this itch. Yeah. Um my wife and I had been caregiving to our parents. All four of them were alive and between the ages of I think 86 and 90 years old at that point in time.

[4:48]  Um, and so I thought, you know what, maybe maybe doing something in the senior space where I've had a little taste of this, um, would be something I would really enjoy and a way to give back a little bit and to really serve a a great need in in our community and and the the broader reach of our community.

[5:08]  And that ultimately uh led me to what I'm doing. uh you know, you do the due diligence of what are the opportunities in the senior space and um uh fortunately I I I found this opportunity. Um it was a franchising opportunity. I kind of knew how to run a business but also was smart enough to know what I didn't know about maybe running a home care agency. Yeah. And I thought plugging into a um franchise opportunity would be a good way to u jumpstart that opportunity. And because you know you're starting something from zero and hoping that it works.

[5:47]  I got so I got a question because you you did see both sides, right? You led teams on the for-profit and the nonprofit. What's that what's been harder like inspiring volunteers or managing executives? Well, they they each have unique challenges. the managing uh uh in the business world managing people um is in a way they don't have a choice but to listen to you. Um but you you still want to manage in a in a in a manner obviously that um where you can make them successful. They want to be successful. Um they're motivated uh to be successful. They they don't feel like they're being suffocated and micromanaged. I always had a little bit of a hands-off management style. um you know let people figure things out on their own. Anytime someone uh brought a

[6:34]  problem to me, I said you better bring a solution along with your problem. Okay? Think think on your own. And if we need to discuss that solution or debate it a little bit, great. But you know, I want I want those people to uh have uh have some thought and some skin in the game. Um when it comes to managing uh not, you know, for profit, it's a really a different ballgame. Um because first of all their their pay is not dependent on their performance because there is no pay. Okay. Correct. Um and so I think it's really even though it's crit it's very important in the corporate world for people to know you know what your mission statement is and and what you're supposed to represent. Um it's a it's really a more

[7:21]  shallow statement if you will. Um whereas in in nonprofit you really your people need to know what your mission statement is and what your core values are for what you're trying to accomplish in this segment. And um I think that buyin helps with the motivation to do what's necessary because they don't have a monetary motivation. So they really need to be driven by an internal motivation to uh to accomplish you know what what what are what is our mission statement you know how are we serving um uh what does it take to be successful in serving um you know what does a team effort look like and what does it look like if they fall down on their part of the team um because you're generally running a

[8:08]  leaner type of an operation on this side and so um you know them understanding what the impact is of their if they drop the ball on others and having that respect for everyone else's volunteer time I think is just a critical part of of uh you know how how you approach this side of the business. Who would ever thought right that that that you would have to go through so much with some volunteers but it's not easy. It's not easy on both sides to be quantum as you and I think business leaders really truly underestimate how hard nonprofit work really is. Do you agree with that?

[8:45]  Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And particularly if you know when you work uh in a nonprofit arena that maybe has a fundraising component to it, nobody likes asking anybody for money. Um, but I mean you really need to believe in your mission, you know, to get over that uh uh awkwardness, if you want to call it that, of of fundraising, which is, you know, usually in some sort of a component in the nonprofit world. you know, I've served on on veterans fundraising boards and um other uh different kinds of nonprofit boards and uh you know, that's it's just it's just a a reality. But people have to be really proud of what what we're doing and thus, you know, realize that it's okay um you know, to solicit uh for support because you are proud of what

[9:35]  you're doing and and and of what you're trying to accomplish. And that sort of has to be translated when you interact with other people that you know may be u supporters of what you're doing. Yeah. I like the uh I heard from another leader said um you know Walmart is not going to take keep telling you about or stop telling you about Black Friday, right?

[9:54]  They're just going to keep telling you about it. Is that out of sight, out of mind in reality? Like one of the things I heard best is I I remember asking someone like, "Hey man, why did you just, you know, choose this person over me one time?" And it says out of sight, out of mind. I really didn't realize that you that's what you're you were doing, right? And and because people have so many different things going on.

[10:11]  So yeah, you got to continue to it's like building relationship. You got to continue to keep that relationship. It's not always having to ask, but maybe just reaching out and asking how you're doing or inviting them to an event, you know, without having to ask for, you know, something in return. How do you actually keep people locked in when the incentive isn't money though? Like it's just truly meaning. It's passion. It's it's really storytelling because that's what that's what's being sold, right? The story.

[10:34]  Well, and and it's also making sure that they see the the benefit of what we're doing. Um, and and aren't so far removed uh in their, you know, maybe narrow scope of their responsibility in this process, but they actually see the the uh uh effects and the benefits of what they're doing. Um, and I think I think that's really important because uh you know most people even even in a nonprofit world um you know they're driven by success in some form and uh if they can see that their efforts are producing some form of success that's giving them the personal fulfillment that they may be seeking in doing something like that.

[11:14]  Tell us a little bit more about Touch and Hearts. What what is uh where did you guys start? Where are you guys today? Yeah. Well, uh, we're here to serve, uh, you know, the the primarily elder community, but not necessarily restricted to the elder community. So, it's really we're helping people with disabilities, um, with uh, illnesses or maybe just the progressive changes that come with aging. And, um, the the whole point of what we do is to help people stay in the place they call home. Okay? Um, and because there's almost always that struggle at a certain age of do we stay home with some care, do we stay home, are we able to stay home without care, or is it time to consider moving into um some sort of a

[12:02]  facility um you know, whether it's independent living, assisted living, um or in the case of someone that has a higher medical need, you know, uh skilled care. Um, so we're all about letting people age in place. Um, and by doing so, we not only want to preserve um their quality of life, but hopefully improve their quality of life because a lot of times their quality of life has already deteriorated by the time they're willing to think about somebody coming into the home and helping them. There's a lot of pride involved uh in in someone saying, "You know what? I I recognize I need help." Um, and there's often a struggle between the adult children in the family and the parents. Um, parents don't want a stranger in their home. Uh,

[12:50]  they don't want to acknowledge that they need help. Um, it's sort of like, hey, I've been fine, so I will be fine. Well, yeah, you're always fine until you're not, you know, until it's too late. And that not is oftenimes uh uh precipitated by a fall. um you know uh it it's it's very common that uh I'll meet with a family and the parents are resistant to any kind of help and uh the adult children are frustrated um because they're very stressed out about their parents situation and uh it's like well Dave you know there's nothing we can do right now and then a month later I get a call oh mom or dad took a fall um now we we desperately need help and they don't have a choice and it's a shame because you know we we specialize is in dementia

[13:38]  care and fall prevention. So, it's very rare that a client would take a fall on our watch. I I I got you got another question, especially in this space that you're in. AI really tapping into so many different um companies at at so many different levels, whether it's communicating maybe with clients, whether it's u marketing, like what do you see AI doing for your space? Are you guys, you know, using AI?

[14:04]  Yeah. Um AI is really relatively new in our space but kind of coming on fast I guess like it is in so many places. Um you know from the more simplistic things of uh writing a care plan uh you know the chat uh you know that the chat services that you know you can just say hey write me a care plan for this kind of a condition. Um, and you know, there is a application for that, but um, it may not be as personalized as you would want it to be, but there's still, you know, there's some still some value to that. Um I think one of the greatest uh innovations has been um and I actually I was just at a conference u where there is technology now that can basically with simply wearing a bracelet kind of

[14:54]  a you know like some of the Google watches and things that will tell you you know your how your heart rate's been and how this has been and how many steps you took and how your sleep has been. Um there are those for seniors now that we can put in the home and uh basically it's giving us a continuum of um their health status, their sleep status. Um and even even if they've fallen uh you know the alert kinds of things are great uh except if you fall and hit your head and can't press the alert button. Well, the the the AI version of that is it knows if you've fallen and it's it can already be alerting the family um or or a an outfit such as ourselves that a fall has taken place. Um is there

[15:43]  somebody there or isn't there? Um, and we can use this not only to tell us if there's a problem, but also to show us that, hey, uh, and we can show the family when a caregiver is there, here's how your parents life is improving. You know, their activity level is higher, their sleep level is better, um, they're getting up less at night. Um, so, um, there's some great great applications and it's and it's all about keeping the family informed of what's going on because they can tie right into an app and and see all this data coming back to them real time about their parents uh, situation in their environment and it can tell them, hey, um, maybe we need more care. We can see where when our when when a caregiver is there, there's

[16:30]  a there are healthier signals being sent to us versus when they're not there. um the sleep cycle is better, their activity level is better. Um so it's really becomes a a a measurable of quality of life that we didn't used to have. Hey, real quick. Have you enjoying the podcast? We first want to say thank you and we also just want to give you a little insight of what we're up to at Francis. Some don't even realize that we're working with organizations to help them use AI to create that real human communication experiences. Whether that's actually supporting your your families, those patients or the entire community, we're actually creating tech that connects. Check it out.

[17:12]  Francis.ai. Love it. And do do you see like if you if you can think about how else AI could help in your space? Um I know there's so many different ways. How else would you love AI to to help in your organization? Well, it's really almost limitless. Uh, you know, I can ask AI, hey, I'm having trouble uh hiring caregivers right now.

[17:32]  Um, what should we be doing? I'm having trouble getting clients right now. What What are the best ways to market in my geographic area? Uh, it really becomes limitless if you remember that that kind of a resource is available. Um, and it's almost I mean it's it's it's kind of crazy what the capabilities are. Um, and it I think it it gets to how do you what is the appropriate u investment in AI?

[18:01]  Um, and how do you manage it? Uh, so that it's not a duplication of effort. It's it's it's really enhancing your existing effort. Um, and you're getting, you know, in a sense a a reasonable ROI um, for what it might cost you to use it. Mhm. Yeah. I think it's uh, really unique, man. There, like you mentioned, there's just so fast and so much of it.

[18:25]  It's like what what is what is best for me? What is best? And, you know, in your case, what is what is best for you? You you probably don't even know that yet. You're you're trying to figure out where could I um add some resources without ever affecting a job. Yeah. you know, uh, or or or someone's pay or anything like that. So, yeah, there's so many different things that I've seen when it comes to, you know, the hospice space or the nonprofit space or that, you know, AI. Something as you mentioned, a bracelet that allows someone to understand when someone is, you know, has fallen. I think it's, you know, crazy that we're in this space.

[18:58]  It's pretty cool though. I was talking to someone else where um autistic kids can now live on their own and they have AI tools that allows them to uh alert them when maybe they left the fridge open or the stove's been on for too long or you know so it's just cool how AI is really kind of helping us live you know um at all levels. So that's pretty cool.

[19:17]  If if you can actually have like a a chatbot on your website that could possibly maybe direct or provide information, what does that look like, if even needed on your website? Well, I I think one of the big the big questions that uh families often have is, let's say, how to deal with dementia. Uh it it is it is such an unknown for most families. I mean, you don't grow up learning about dementia and all the different kinds of dementia and and how do you treat somebody with dementia? How do you interact with them um when you've gone through a lifetime of a relationship and now that relationship is kind of in essence can be gone? Um and how do you how do you navigate that and manage that and and there really so many different kinds of dementia. So kind of a Q&A that where they could be

[20:05]  um getting questions answered about dementia um I think would be awesome. I mean a really a really really a great thing. Um and then you know secondarily there are all of the other unknowns that uh um usually come from my personal interaction with them and and answering questions um when we get a call um as opposed to just on the website. in our in our industry, if you want to call it an industry or the segment that we deal in, it's still a very personal kind of relationship that is is needed for a family to feel comfortable that their parent is going to be safe, healthy, and happy, and that they can trust someone else with that. Yeah. Um, so we have to be careful how we navigate sort of some

[20:54]  of the um at arms length information, okay? or interaction because it's very important for us to in a very early uh phase of a family looking for information that we start to cultivate a a personal relationship with them. So the whole technology thing is important but it has to be balanced with that uh their need to feel that personal connection and and not feel that a little bit oh this is just a technologydriven impersonal situation.

[21:26]  So uh that that you know that's one of the challenges we have in integrating AI or you know kind of uh more modern aspects of information. I like that you know with you Dave you truly just you've had the titles you've had the wins but what part of you felt empty and and how did caregiving and getting into this space really just fill that void that maybe was missing?

[21:52]  Well, I mean, I have to say that um that as I mentioned earlier, that need to really want to have personal impact on people's lives, um this has fulfilled that. And and one of the ways it does is, you know, when a family comes to us, um they're they're usually drowning. They're looking for a lifeline. I mean, they are so stressed out about mom or dad knowing that they've already gone beyond the point where really they're safe at home. Um, and they don't know what to do. Again, nothing in life prepares us for this chapter of of navigating and and now being in a sense being the parent over our parents.

[22:32]  Isn't that crazy? The roles the roles get reversed and that frustration that the parents used to have with us as teenagers is now, you know, they're acting more like the teenagers and we're being the parents and and we now have all that stress that they used to have. Yep. And uh it's funny because I I often use that uh when they don't want care and they say, 'Oh, you know, why are you worried about us? We don't need, you know, you don't need to be worried about us. And I said, remember when they were teenagers and leaving the house and they used to tell you, don't worry about me.

[23:02]  I can take care of myself. Well, you know, you're lucky to have kids that love you and and are worried about you and uh you know, so maybe it's time to listen to them. But, you know, that that that ability to to help people when they really are desperately need it. And there's a very tangible um result, you know, when even even in my early conversations with a stressed out adult child about their parents when they, you know, by the time we get off the phone, they are like, "Oh gosh, thank you. Thank you. I mean, this has been so helpful. Even if, you know, even if I can't get my parents to, you know, accept help. Talking with you has really really helped and it's like, you know, that just makes me feel great, you know,

[23:49]  that I' I've really had that kind of an impact on somebody's life to take stress off of them. Um, and I just I just love that. I mean, it's it's it's an awesome feeling and it's what makes me get up every day and say, "Hey, you know, I don't care how old I am. Why would I want to stop providing this kind of help to people?"

[24:09]  You know what it is is I think uh uh it and it's amazing that you've got to do it, but I think a lot of leaders just kind of feel stuck and and scared to pivot at times, right? When when you've been doing something for so long and you you do feel there's something that is needed, but you just again scared to to take that leap. What would you say to the old version of yourself sitting in that office chair wondering is this it?

[24:32]  Yeah. Well, f first of all, you you really do need a a you know, something inside you that's burning and saying, you know, I I really there's there is a hole. Um and you know, having a serious desire to fill that hole because without that, um it's pretty hard to just go jump into the deep end of a pool and hope there's water.

[24:56]  Okay. Um you you've got to you've got to know your why. Okay. Um and and if you don't have that to drive you um to take a chance. Um and all I would say is you know what my only regret in this is I didn't do it sooner. Um because loving I mean I enjoyed my work before but there's a there's a difference between enjoying it and loving it. Okay. Um and that can be a pretty broad chasm. I mean, a lot of people enjoy their work, but you know, they're also looking forward to when it when it's going to stop. You know, I love this and I don't ever want it to stop. And that's that's a totally different perspective. You know it is now and you know I hear that all the

[25:46]  time from leaders in the nonprofit space especially when they come from that for-profit and they'll tell you that you know they ran these Fortune 500 companies or companies were making millions and millions of dollars of taking a huge massive pay cut but they still love what they do and it it's just so meaningful and hopes that people listen to these stories like yours and make those pivots because I think there's so many great leaders that could really be very impactful with you know because not everyone's a great leader.

[26:10]  There's those that are really great leaders and and you tend to see them make that transition to the nonprofit space and just really flourish and you know I hear it all the time. I wish I would have done it sooner. Like this is so, you know, rewarding because it's not about the money, right? You start to realize it's not truly about the money.

[26:26]  It's really the the lives that you can impact and hearing those those positive people like as you mentioned, man, I I feel so much better now that I spoke to you. How cool is that? Right. Just by being yourself, by sharing, you know, knowledge, nothing too crazy, um that people can kind of say that to you. Do you think there's anything that comes to mind um about things that no one is really talking about when it comes to running or starting a home care agency?

[26:54]  Well, look, like anything, there are challenges, okay? Um and a lot of people that might start a home care agency are starting it. Yes, they want to help people. They know that there's a great economic, you know, there's is an economic opportunity because of the aging population. Um, but they still may not realize uh that you're going to be serving two groups of people. You're going to be serving the elderly, but you're also going to be serving your caregivers.

[27:25]  And that's going to require a lot of patience and a lot of empathy. Um because, you know, caregiving does not it doesn't pay a lot. Um it's not easy work. um caregivers uh as a group um lead more challenging lives. I mean, there's no other way to put it. You know, they they don't leave lead, you know, a life um like most owners would lead. Um you know, they have more challenges. Their cars break down more often. Um they have more domestic issues. Um they don't understand how to navigate certain of life's challenges easily. And so, you know, I'm not only serving my clients, you know, the elderly, but I'm serving my caregivers.

[28:14]  And, you know, I treat them like a family. I treat them, you know, their team members. They are as important or more important than my clients because without them, we don't exist. So, they have to have the same kind of a buy in that I have in our mission statement and understanding that they're not alone. um that uh there's a support network for them. Um you know, I've been on the side of the road at 11:30 at night changing a caregivers's tire.

[28:43]  Okay, that's just that's what's that's what we needed to do, you know, and and that's what they needed. I mean, you know, so again, if you're truly if if if it's your heartfelt mission to serve and you have a compassion to serve, it's not limited to your clients, okay? It's and and that's that's a very very different attitude from the corporate world.

[29:07]  Correct? You know, where your your your employees are there to serve you and to serve your corporate mission statement. You're not really there to serve them. This is this is 180 degree difference. Um and um it's challenging. I mean, it's very challenging. um you know the the group of people that that are caregiving um you know may not have the same business skills and communication skills and that uh um you know just automatic dependability that you know okay I have to show up it's my job to show up on time and to be there um or to not let personal things get in the way. So, I mean there it's a very challenging aspect to this business and when I talk to a prospective owner, I I really

[29:54]  emphasize and want to make sure that they have the patience and the compassion and the understanding that this is what it's going to take to be successful in this business. The clients are all going to come. I mean, the aging population is going to dictate that you are going to have probably enough clients, but if you don't have what it takes to to manage your your staff, you're not going to be successful.

[30:18]  Yeah. And I'm happy that you brought that up because it's something else that I tend to hear as well is that the caregivers, right, sometimes underpaid, undervalued, but for you, it's like, know, we want to make sure that they highly valued, right, and that they understand that there's a lot of care that I provide, such as changing a tire at 11:30 at night, right? Like that shows that you care cuz you could easily send someone, but you you personally said, "I'll go and make sure that I do it myself." Because you you had the capability of doing so. And it meant so much more, you know, to see you show up at 11:30. It meant so much more. Um, and and it just shows loyalty and who you are as an individual so people can give you back that loyalty. And again, back to that good leadership, right? That's that's the reason we we got you here, Dave, because we knew you had great leadership skills and this is perfect example. I love it. I love it. Yeah. You

[31:06]  got to walk the walk. You can't just talk the talk, you know. There you go. Yeah. That's it. That's it. What makes you guys different at, you know, touching hearts, you know, different from when trust is everything. What do you think sets you apart? Well, it actually plays into really what I was just talking about. Um, because the turnover rate in our industry is, believe it or not, about close to 80%.

[31:28]  So, eight out of 10 workers that the average agency hires today will not be there a year later. Okay? And what that does is it creates a um unfortunately with a lot of agencies, it's like they're marching an army of caregivers through your parents' home with no consistency. It's not the same person week after week. And that's what really separates us. I mean, our turnover rate is about 15%. That's really good. And so we we can offer that consistency of care, the same person. I mean, it's hard enough for an elderly person to get used to a new face, but if you're showing them a new face every week, you know, how are you really improving their life u or taking the stress out of their life? They're always having to deal with a new person. So, that's a big differentiator for us. Um I think that uh u it it not only goes uh from our

[32:18]  caregiving staff um but our our office staff. We all have that same um core values and and our core values are you know brought into play from the moment we engage a prospective candidate. Um and our you know our core values are um compassion, excellence, dependability and faith in God. and like that and that that that really runs our business and um I think it's a it's a big differentiator as it you know kind of permeates every aspect of our business and the way we interact with people and really our commitment to making sure our clients are served properly um and respectfully and with dignity um and and consistent care.

[33:06]  We're about to get ready to wrap up, but I ask you this before we get to the blind question spot. If you had a magic wand where you could change anything that's happened in in the home care space, what are you changing? Well, I would have probably gotten rid of co that never happened. No, it actually it drove a unfortunately it drove a lot of people out of the health care space.

[33:26]  And this this goes all the way to nurses, LPN's, uh, physician assistants. It and it's really hampered. We've never really recovered from that quite honestly. Um, and it's what's created such a shortage in in our industry. It's like where did all the people go? Well, they just went to other things where initially they didn't feel safe in this business for the obvious reasons. Um, and they've never come back to it. Um, so that you know that as it plays into our shortage uh and quality people. I mean, you know, it would be great if I could just wave a magic wand and have all the quality people that I needed to serve clients because it's very frustrating when I get a call and I may not have a caregiver right away for that person. Um, yeah. Um, you know, I we don't hire warm bodies. We we want the

[34:13]  right kind of people. And so that magic wand would say, "Give me all the people I need, quality people I need at any given point in time." Well, Dave, you know, it's funny that you say that because it is true. Everyone's saying how um it's just hard enough to find people, right? I mean, and I think really all across the board, but definitely in the space of of nurses and in the medical field, do you think that it comes back? And if so, how long does it take?

[34:41]  It can come back, but it's really got to start at at almost like a grassroots level of of promoting this uh area of business. I mean, you know, the the the health care field um has, I think, done a poor job of promoting the entry level of of saying, "Hey, this is a great career. This is very fulfilling. Um, you know, go to school and and and and take the courses for a nursing degree or or even, you know, if you want to be a doctor, but also just there's really not much being done."

[35:15]  And I I'm really not sure even how to do it at a grassroots level to say, "Hey, you know what? Um, you may not have a college education, but you can have a very fulling fulfilling career as a caregiver. And no, maybe you're not going to get rich in in in material uh worth, but you're going to be rich in spirit. And and um I'm not sure how to I'm really not sure how to do that or how to go about that at the grassroots level. Um, so many caregivers come into it because their mom was a caregiver or they had a friend, but there's really nothing else being done to kind of You're right. I think it I think you're right. It it is promoted is the education part of it. I think there's always so many opportunities out there that people just don't know. And this is one of them. One of those hidden opportunities that if you really wanted

[36:02]  to give back, if you really love people, you really want to change lives that you can. Yeah. You know, and these are different ways. And even like in the nonprofit space when I think about people wanting to give back, I always feel there's nonprofits for everyone, you know, but are you finding it? Are are do do you know it's there? Is that whole out of sight, out of mind, right?

[36:20]  Which is why we want to have these discussions here on the Heart and Hustle podcast because it allows us to really kind of talk about these type of situations or for someone to see, oh well, okay, this exists in my city, my town, my community. How do I get involved? Um, so I love that you kind of mentioned it. Yeah, it could just be we're not pushing that narrative enough that it is a good place to be at that people do care for you. Um, you know, maybe they won't pay you um the most of the most, but they still, as you mentioned, they'll show up at 11:30 at night. You know, th those things when when someone can treat you like family.

[36:54]  you know how corporate was, as much as they like to play family, it doesn't be when you get so high into the corporate world or when the when the company gets so big to me, I've seen that firsthand where they lose that touch of family and in this space especially for your organization that it still exists. Yeah.

[37:11]  Yeah. And you know, one of the benefits of of of this space is that it can be, you know, very flexible hours. You don't it doesn't have to be a 40-hour a week job. So, it can be an augmentation to other work that maybe you're doing. And if you want to pick up some extra weekend hours or evening hours, um, or if you're working in the evening, daytime hours, it can usually be fit around your schedule so that you can still get the benefit of additional income. Um, and maybe some of that fulfillment that you might be looking for um, but with a very flex, you know, ability to have a very flexible schedule.

[37:44]  Well, Dave, it comes to the time, man, we got to get to that blind question. You've dedicated so much of your life to caring for others. If you um if one of your clients wrote you a letter after you're gone, what would you hope it says? After I am gone, that's when the truth comes out, right? You you ma you made a big difference in our lives. I mean that sentence is all is really all all that's needed. I mean you you made a difference. Uh you improved our lives. Uh, and that's really all I'm that's that's all I want to do, you know. I love it. Okay. Okay.

[38:22]  And for yourself, the next blind question for the next lead that we have here on the Heart and Hustle podcast, what's your blind questions to them? Well, and and I kind of I sort of maybe gave it away a little bit, but you know, if I had to ask somebody, uh, you know, whether it's in the corporate world or in the nonprofit world or or, you know, in the serving world, what is your why?

[38:41]  And how is how is that why creating your fulfillment, your personal fulfillment, and and and how is it fulfilling your core values? Because that's at the core of of really almost anyone's happiness. If you really when you really drill down to it, whether whether you're the regular business world or not, if you don't know your why, if you're sort of muddling through because it's providing a living, you know, okay, it's giving my family what I want, but is is that really your why? Is is is is that is that all there is to your why? Because that's probably not fulfilling personally um or really what maybe your core values are within you. Dave, I thank you so much for your time and for just giving us so much information, one about the space that

[39:27]  you're in, about your organization, but also just sharing your leadership skills here with us today. How can people find more about your organization? Social media website, what does that look like? Um well, you know, our website is, you know, www.touching touchinghearts.combu cksco bucks bucksco and you know we do have a Facebook page as well um you know and so we're on social media um but that's that's probably probably the best way well I appreciate it guys this has been the hustle podcast we had Dave here as a leader today we thank you so much don't forget to share like and subscribe we'll catch you guys on the next episode talk to you