How This Special Ops Veteran Turned Trauma Into Triumph

[0:00]  are you in are you out and so she was like I'm in um so we developed a business plan figured out who we want to service how how we want to do it um had the relationship with exos still and said hey exos if I bring in veterans and First Responders into your facility and we hired mental health clinicians to do kind of an intensive clinic inside of there would you be willing to to help facilitate and they agreed to it and um we ran two pilot programs one one being a week long and the other one being two weeks long at least the impers portion and uh and then those were successful and we ended up settling on a 3- we inperson experience and then a 9we uh tella Health uh off- rant all right guys welcome back brand

[1:01]  new episode of the podcast today we have an amazing individual who's sitting across this digital table with me Stephen man welcome to the show thank you for having me happy to be here so Stephen I think it's really important to talk about your origin story and the amazing work that you're doing now to serve our community of veterans in such a multifaceted way so who are you and what is the work that you're doing man uh well like I said I'm Steve Nesbit I uh I'll just go back to where where I came from and then how I got to where I am today and or at least somewhat and then we can get into the story a little bit deeper um so born born in Colorado oral Colorado moved to Tucson Arizona when I was around five years old or so um two brothers um a twin brother and an older brother and as

[1:50]  I was growing up I really enjoyed soccer played soccer all my childhood um and that was the plan that was what I wanted to do that's what my dream was was was to grow up and be a professional soccer player and uh you know I went to a public school public high school and and and middle school and everything didn't play club soccer um or anything like that but you know I had the will and the desire but you know as I started experiencing High School I started realizing like there's no scouts that are coming to my my small like public high school and no one's like coming out and looking out to see what I'm doing and and uh so the realization started coming when I was a Junior and senior and I started to figure out okay well what am I going to do like I'm not getting a scholarship to to some University or anything like that no

[2:38]  one's coming and looking at our um soccer team it's not like we weren't like a super good good team anyway so I started having to figure out what what am I going to do next in life and my dad had spent his his entire adult life in law enforcement he did several years in the Air Force um and so that was in the back of my mind like maybe I'll become a police officer like my dad and but what I also enjoyed was space I was a space nerd I enjoyed doing you like astronomy and whatnot and so I was like you know what I'm going to go to I'm going to go to Puma Community College in Tucson um go to school there all my other buddies they were all really smart and they they went to universities for engineering degrees and whatnot and it just that wasn't something I was interested in and nor did I get a scholarship to do any that stuff so so I chose astronomy as as

[3:28]  essentially my major went to College showed up and then I just looked around at the people around me and there was a lot of folks that were considerably older than I was at the time I was 18 and it was really boring it just wasn't what I really wanted to do and I was like man I still haven't figured it out and so as I continued looking at the next steps I was like all right well I needed just a complete shift in what what my life is right now and and really all my buddies are going and working for rathon and IBM that's what they're their plans are and you know I was like okay well those are like a lot of weapons manufacturing jobs I'll just go into the Air Force and do something and then and then that's my Pathway to University I'll use the 911 G or the the GI Bill and then go to college through there so

[4:14]  I looked at some recruiters and I tested the ASVAB test did really well on that and essentially was like well what what's a job that you can do that that you have to have a high asbab score you know that's something I just wanted to challenge myself intellectually and they're like nuclear weapons apprentice and I was like boom they connecting some dots I'll go and and you know work this nuclear weapons job and then I'll get out go to university catch up with my pals and we'll all be together again hanging out just like we used to and um I had selected that and and and signed a contract and everything walked out of the office and there was a army recruiter that happened to be smoking a cigarette right next door and he's like hey son you and and I as I kept like I was like I'm not interested and I don't want to be in the army that was one

[5:00]  thing I just I don't want to be in the Army and he's like you want to be in Special Forces and I was like dang I never thought of that and I was like like something inside of me just kind of perked up like I have a thought of myself being that like that sounds interesting but I don't want to be in the Army so I was like I'll hear what you have to say so I went in listen to him give his pitch and then I said I might come back hang on a second went back over to the Air Force I was like hey I know I just signed a contract but do you guys have any Air Force Special Operations jobs and uh they're like yeah but you wouldn't make it and I was like all right how about let me navigate that and I'll figure that out but tell me what those jobs are so par rescue and combat controls had no clue what either of them did one did medicine one was combat control that like still didn't couldn't fathom at that time of like I don't understand how you control combat

[5:48]  but like if you're carrying a gun and shooting bad guys and you you're considered special operator I'll do that so I I wanted I didn't want to do anything medicine and so I trained really hard um I I knew what the the selection test was going to be so it physically changed for the for the phys trained for the physical ability and stamina test past test and uh when I showed up to take it and I trained a certain way to be to do combat control that's what I wanted to do and uh like which one are you going to take and I said well what's the difference like one has a swim at the beginning one has the one at the end and I was like does that matter like Noe doesn't really matter it goes to the same spot anyway I was like okay I'll do the swim at the beginning and then just as I trained and I did the whole test and uh they're like all right finished you're selected you are going to go to Indo to become a PJ and I was like I

[6:36]  thought I was going to be a controller and they're like they're they're the same thing go to indoc it's the same place and then you'll figure it out and I was like okay um I'll just do that like and I believed him and then I showed up to indoc and it was not the same thing and it was not it and I was now in the pipeline to become a PJ and do medicine so um yeah so that's how I entered into into this Special Operations world and then uh and then ultimately ended up deploying a lot and getting to where I was and starting the organization I'm at today so I don't know if you have any questions in between them yeah man what was so what was it about special forces that kind of like attracted you you had that natural I would say light bulb that went off in your head and you were like this is going to be for me was it the challenging was the intellectual was the complexity of all of it coming together

[7:23]  what was it that kind of attracted you to that that's a really good question I I think it was the challenge and and proving to myself that I could do something um really that nobody else in my family had done and nobody else in my inner circle had done it was like here's a risk that I'm willing to take I'm I'm willing to take this risk and give everything I have to go do something that was um you know special and and I never really considered myself to be that and now I was like well here's an opportunity that I can that I can do that and and not be a seal you know because it seals even now they're just they're they're books movies all the whole thing like they're so well known I just I didn't have a desire to go to the seal route so this was very appealing to

[8:13]  me I'm really interested about you know when you talk to that army recruiter you go back into the air force office say hey do you guys have special forces and he says hey you're not you're not going to make it you're not cut out for this yeah I saw a little bit of your I would say competitive nature kind of flare up and say I'm going to prove you wrong here why do you think that was your natural intuition when it came to that was it the experience of competitive Sports and you didn't get a shot I'm just wondering like what was the basis and driver that kind of had you kind of puff up that way yeah I think it's it's looking at the individual who's telling you that this person standing in front of me that told me I'm not going to make it has hasn't done hasn't tried himself he didn't get there so what does he know about what it takes to get there and how does he know what I have this dude has

[9:01]  no clue who I am so I think it was just taken into into account like you know something I tell people um you know especially my kids is is um you know I don't put a lot of stock in people that I don't know or don't really respect you know I for me to care about what somebody has to say I have to I have to respect them and at that time like I didn't really respect the guy because I didn't know the guy like and so um for him to say something like that it was more so well you've never tried you're don't you're not wearing a beret you didn't go through the through Indo so how would you know and and it was the same thing throughout basic training you had basic training uh training instructors TI telling me the same thing and and reallyy I mean it's a trend throughout everywhere even starting the

[9:47]  nonprofit is people who have never done it will tell you not to do it or tell you it's too hard um and they just don't know what what hard is for me because it's a it's a it's a Spectrum it's a scale that idea of someone telling you you're not going to make it I've always had that chip on my shoulder very transparently often when people indicate hey you're not going to be able to do this it's not possible don't go down that route it's often an indicator that that is the exact route that we should be kind of marching towards you know what I mean to accomplish things that people couldn't even fathom right yeah exactly and and I think it's I think this individual probably sees you know the recruiter probably sees a lot of people that come through and have a desire and a want and a will to do it but then it's a 90% attrition rate and

[10:35]  you know at that time I was 120 130 pounds soaking wet I was a very small skinny guy that didn't really you know couldn't grow a beard or anything and it was just like just a young 18-year-old with with a dream that he probably was like looking at you know oh you got to look like this to make it through there and realistically when you're going through indoc and you're going through selection it's generally not the guy that looks like the movie stars it's the person that is actually very Unbecoming that you're like this guy actually looks more like a computer nerd and is probably the most lethal person on the battlefield never judge a book by its cover is what I'm hearing you say exactly right all right so let's uh let's Advance a little bit further down the road here so what happens next so we talk about you know we've been deployed

[11:22]  a couple times what the experience is like um I know that we had an event that happened in Wyoming and I'm hoping that we can kind of tie all of this and kind of talk about that experience as well if you're okay with that yeah so the the accident yeah that accident I think you're referencing is is in Idaho um we'll get to that it's kind of what the the the Catalyst that really took me to to where I am now um but yeah so I got to my first unit in in 2008 and um all my buddies were I was that was in okanawa Japan and all my buddies were deploying and and you know there was a fear of like man I'm going to miss the War I mean I did all this training I did all this um you know put myself through just some some heinous things and and I'm going to end up not being employed the way that I intended or that I

[12:10]  trained to be so I got there in 2008 and I still I didn't deploy until 2010 and and really when I when I was going through the pipeline and and and going like figuring out what what being a PJ or a per rascan even was my mindset was still not not so much into the combat sense and and more thinking of it like uh um a civilian a SE a civilian search and rescue U is really what I was I was like man that's I really like I'm not really into going out and getting into combat and shooting people and whatnot like at that time there just it didn't it wasn't who I was and uh and so I had this plan to okay I just want to do rescue and do civil SAR and then I went to

[12:59]  the special tactic Squadron in okanawa and deployed in 2010 augmenting the task force The Joint Task Force out there and and you know day three being in in Afghanistan in in eastern Afghanistan we got a Ved hit the base and then a complex attack on the base and that was the first time like I somebody was looking through a either a scope or an optic or iron sights shooting at me and uh and so the realization like somebody's at the end of like just a few hundred meters away over there is looking at me and shooting at me and so that was like a really odd realization to be like somebody's actually trying to kill me and uh and so once that Adrenaline Rush hit and I KN I could you see the round sitting around

[13:45]  you and and those guys all ended up getting killed in some some form of fashion um that was exciting I was like interesting like fortunately no no Americans were hurt no Coalition forces were hurt and then throughout the rest of that deployment it was it was a pretty busy one with different things that that took place and ended up reenlisting out there and I was like I I actually want to do that again I want give it to the sh shake and scratch the itch and then end up moving to Las Vegas to do the rescue squad in there and and I did a silver SAR and it wasn't what I thought it was going to be did a couple rescues out in um Zion National Park and then deployed a couple more times to Afghanistan where we really got into some some good fire fights and it was a lot of ups and Downs um as far as Adrenaline Rush goes I mean you you

[14:33]  could see like that there's a there's an age a time period where this the the technological age was was coming into play where technology was just being infused into the the war into combat and um so the first deployment it was all um sat phones if I wanted to call home I was dialing up on a sa phone and maybe it would go through maybe it wouldn't there'd be two weeks three weeks at a time that I even be able to talk to my to my wife or my family back home um you'd have to go to like an internet cafe or like a phone booth and have like a a phone card that you put in the numbers and you like a certain amount of minutes on it you could go on and maybe Skype if if the network was good and so and then you fast forward a couple years and now you have Skype on an internet like on Wi-Fi and so now I'm in a in a

[15:21]  point where you're on a radio and you get a what's called a scramble call and the you have eight between eight and 10 minutes to get off the ground once you get that mission so typically I be at that time Skyping my family and then a scramble call would come and like I got to go and then go out and do the mission whatever it was it could be anywhere from like a scorpion sting or like a fall off of a Hesco barrier to a mass casualty with you know nine patients and everyone's missing Limbs and a massive firefight um so that's the range at which it would go we run between six to 10 missions a day day every day for 120 days and so it became a lot of ups and downs and you would go I'd be talking to my family then you know you just never

[16:08]  know like you're getting on an aircraft and you know maybe maybe my wife and I were flighting at the time or maybe I was having a really good conversation with my kids and then I got to go and that's the thing I'm thinking about on the way there to the mission I'm trying not to and then go do the mission and let's say it's a a somebody who stepped on a on an IID and now they're missing Limbs and they're probably going to die and take him to the hospital and I'm just frustrated and come back I don't want to talk to my to my family I don't want to um sorry you might hear my dogs um okay I don't want to talk to I don't want to talk to anybody I don't want to eat um just like that was the the challenging part of the technological age anyway so deployed a few times and I really started to get that like I was seeing that the Carnage that was taking place with Coalition forces and

[16:55]  Americans and didn't really get a lot of opportunity to shoot the bad guys right like like yes there were times that we we got into firefights but with that particular Mission you're trying to get on and off the battlefield as fast as possible with the people that you're treating um so my job wasn't necessarily to to fight as much as it was to to treat people so but I I knew the war was dying down for the for that particular Mission set that's a rescue prtf personal recovery task force doing or Qs doing point of injury care and I knew that there were still fighting me so there's only one place that was still deploying consistently Le that was working at the highest level I had really no intention of going there um but I was like well I still got fighting

[17:42]  me so you have to go through a selection go through a whole another selection process apply for it and it's it's just another it's a tier one unit think of like the Air Force version of the Navy SEAL Team Six or the Army's Delta Force so is there Steve can I ask you a question sure when you're going through these multiple deployments right you're recognizing that the I would say the intensity of what you're doing is starting to die down what are the conversations like with your support system your wife your kids when you're saying hey now I'm going to go do this which seems like it puts you in a little bit more danger and I'm wondering kind of how did your support system kind of support you through you saying I've got Mor fight in me I want to continue to do this work um we had a lot of challenges early on in our

[18:29]  in our marriage and whatnot um and I think knowing that we stuck it through we fought it out um and she knew that that's what I wanted that like that's the pathway that was going to make me happy and really ultimately you know those those organizations those rescue squadrons are still deploying um you know the way that I could rationalize it was if I'm going to deploy and go overseas and risk my life it better be worth it better be worth something it better not be you know unfortunately it's happened in the past where guys are deployed in a non really a non-c combat zone and just flying around doing training and then they hit power lines and crash or maybe they are in a combat zone but that they maybe that didn't need to be there um and they

[19:17]  hit power lines or maybe there's electrical malfunction and they crash and you know I better be away if I'm going to be away from my family I better be worth something so and then the agreement was to go over over there um to go to this unit was all right once I once I scratch this itch once this this time is up then she gets to choose where we go and we end up afterwards so that was the agreement we stuck to it um but it wasn't like an it wasn't an easy decision by by any means so um I'm thankful and grateful that she supported it um and it was stability there was stability there at least in the in the form of the family we didn't have to move again after that until was the time for us to leave as far as me getting out um so there was stability for the kids

[20:03]  to go to school and have friends and whatnot so I don't know if that answer your question it does man I just always want to put myself at least I can try and empathize to understand the situation which you're going through because it seems incredibly intense it seems very stressful on multiple fronts and then being able to have a support system that can support you to feel like you're showing up and making the commitment that you made worth it is really important but I know that you have to have a really strong Foundation of support behind you in order to do those typee of things yeah absolutely I I think you know my my wife knew that that's that's what was going to keep me happy and keep me engaged um and keep me doing the thing that I wanted to do and you know there was a time period where I was like okay I got to slow down and and maybe going to become an instructor was going to be the the pathway and that was the path until um until the accident

[20:52]  took place so I got to this new unit you know I applied for that that unit didn't really train at all but you get a got to do a long Rock and and that was miserable um and so the selection process was you know was probably one of the hardest physically things demanding things I've had to do because I didn't really train at all I just went and formed um and did not even that well but I happen to be a cool dude so uh they picked me up and uh so so of these folks let's say 15 of us went to selection and only six of us were picked up and and these are 15 individuals who who are very decorated who have been through been to combat many times and um it's it's just selecting the right person because you are embedded within those other organizations that I described

[21:40]  before those tier ones uh organizations you're you're embedded with them either as a A jtac or a a medic attached to those groups so another year of training and then get to those teams and then just start deploying so I deployed about another seven times um to different areas across the globe um and and it was pretty demanding because now you're working you're you're on a on a recall and and you know sometimes you're carrying a pager or a phone or something like that and then that phone will go off and you you only have a certain amount of time to get to the get to the base and then be off somewhere around the world and you don't know where you're going and you can't tell your family like I know there's a lot of secret squirrels out there but you know quite quite literally you you we were for example I was driving to um um uh I

[22:30]  was going to take my family to Dave and Busters uh and we're a little little bit ways away my kids were were sleeping in the back seats and then I got the call and I had to turn back around and drive into base and my your bags were always packed so my bag was packed in the car and the kids woke up to me getting out of the car at the front gate and they're like hey this isn't Dave and Busters I was like no this isn't Dave and Buster like but I have to go again um somebody out there is in trouble and they need our help and so got in um you know met met a Budd at the gate who then took took me to the to the compound and then and then we left after that and was gone for another two and a half three months so um you know you just never know when when those things pop up but that's what why we went there that's that's one

[23:18]  that's one of the reasons why I went there um was to be on that that recall to be there to do the national Mission and and if I was going to be gone it better be for something good like a hostage rescue or killing a really bad guy um so after deploying seven times doing that and had some really really um successful deployments um I started to really notice that I did I didn't want to I guess I didn't know what we have embedded psychologist within the unit and um one of them had put out like an email saying like Hey we're doing like a PTSD education clinic and whatnot and I was like well okay what do people

[24:05]  like I emailed her said hey what do people come and ask you about like how do you like how do you know you got the PTSD like how do you what like what did people come and tell you like because I just couldn't fathom what what was to be talked about and what is to be fixed how it's fixed I just knew that something in internally was was going on because I couldn't remember people that I had known for for 10 years I couldn't remember the names I couldn't remember how I knew certain people that I had known for a while um I was very irritable um at some at one point like I was you know the way I I guess best describe it is I'm more comfortable in that setting I was more comfortable in combat getting shot at than I was around my kids at home screaming and fighting

[24:53]  at each other that was I could control at least have a little bit of control in the combat sense where I knew like I was trained for I knew what was going on spent more time doing that having gone most of my kids like at least half the kids lives um and so when I'm back and they're overwhelmingly screaming and whatnot I don't know how to control them other than getting loud and aggressive and so because I was doing that my white like in one particular instance just got loud and aggressive with my oldest and you know came down downstairs afterwards and knew that man this is not like just shame just a lot of Shame of like I I should not have done that I know that's going to impact him for a while and that's not who I am and I like I just

[25:43]  didn't know what to do until finally my wife fortunately came to me and said like hey I I love you and I don't want you to get upset but your kids are afraid of you and so that was really finally somebody else was telling me something that I already knew and and you know was my wife was brave enough to say that to me um so then that's what led to me reaching out to the psychologist and saying like Hey how do I fix what I think is wrong what do like maybe I have TB because I had a lot of TBI but um took took some cognitive tests and whatnot and really realized that hey your your brain is performing really well and you don't really you have an MRI your brain isn't really damaged in in any particular way but you are showing signs and symptoms of

[26:31]  prevere PTSD and I said well how do I fix that and so that's what entered into the care that they provide um within the unit and and within that unit you got just a robust group of resources strength conditioning coaches dietitians physical therapists neuropsychologists psychologists phys Physicians they're all really working to make sure that you are operating at the highest level when you deploy and you come back that you're ready to go and you know most of us operator types are are hiding or concealing a lot of our issues so we can continue deploying but at some point it's going to erupt and with me it did um and and then after seeing her for a while I started to enjoy doing what I was doing again like I I started to feel better recognize the symptoms that was taking place as far as nightmares

[27:20]  inability to sleep anxiety depression like all these things that were plaguing me I started to address and figure out um and then went into uh and then the accident happened how do we address those feelings of being out of control right like you talked about when you're in a combat scenario you feel like you're in control because you're well trained on how to respond to these scenarios that are occurring right but then we find ourselves in a different situation with our family as an example and it's not as intense but we have these feelings that are coming up inside of us that are like you know we're out of control I don't know how to deal with this situation how do you start that internal monologue I guess there's like a real element of self-awareness in here to be able to say I'm just out of sorts I'm not in a place where I feel comfortable kind of you know having

[28:07]  these conversations with my kids my wife is coming to me now and saying that my kids are scared of me naturally I think there would be a very similar to when we were talking to the recruiter right at the Air Force you don't know what it's about you haven't been through this before I feel like my natural inclining in that situation would be for my ego to pop up and be like you don't understand what I've been through but it seems like you able to navigate that in a much more sustainable healthier way um yeah I mean it was it would have been very easy for me to say um to to do that to to pretty much say like hey I've got these things going on in my brain this is me being a dad this is what being a dad is like and you know tough deal with it um but I knew that's not the things the the reactions that I was having was not who I wanted to be and who I wanted my

[28:56]  children to view me has and so I knew something was a foot and it's not like those things go away it's not like after uh talking to um to the psychologist and whatnot that like oh I don't feel those things anymore like I still feel those things I still like when my kids fight and argue with each other and they and they get disrespectful now that they're older like yes though the I like the the the boiling still happens it still takes place but now I recognize that it's taking place and and I I can utilize what had happened before how I was before and how I am now and so I simply ask my son when those things happen I say hey do you remember when I used to

[29:43]  get angry and I used to get loud and aggressive and and he say yes and I said do you want me to talk to you that way or the way that I'm talking to you now which is the way you and I talking and and he said well the way you're talking to me now and I said okay then you need to to talk the same way I'm talking and you need to listen to what I'm saying to you so that the the old like not not saying that it's going to be your fault at the old me but I need you to understand that I'm I'm doing my best and and I need you to to listen to the things that I'm saying to you I'm still your father you cannot disrespect Us in these different ways right so a long way of saying like yeah it's it's a self-recognition of like I I know what that used to feel like and now I can I can internalize I can take a deep

[30:32]  breath and then I can talk calmly and I know it's more impactful I know it's going to hit them harder because soon as if I start getting loud as soon as that happens they shut off they they turn off and they don't listen I uh had the pleasure of interviewing a uh brain surgeon with a PhD in neuroscience and I asked him what is the most important skill set a human being can develop and he said without a doubt emotional regulation the ability for us to regulate our emotions in every situation is fundamental because when our emotions start boiling up like you talked about it changes the way in which we perceive other people's actions the way in which they're talking to us and the message that they're giving us as well and it sounds like you've done some amazing self-work man to be able to regulate those emotions and those feelings that have come up oh I appreciate that yeah I think I think it's it is a it is a it is work as you

[31:21]  said like you know even now like there's some things that you know that pop up and and I have to ask myself am I is this an emotional response or a factual response um especially when it comes to work when it comes to like the nonprofit and other things like am I before I send this email or before i s like respond to this text or whatever it is is this am I sending this as an emotional response or am I sending this as a factual response and and I usually wait a little bit until I do send that and make sure that it's it's everything's in fact and it's not emotion there's no emotion in it let's uh let's talk a little bit what happens next so we've mentioned an accident a couple times here what happened yeah so um as as I said like there was a point which I I just stopped I didn't enjoy what I was doing you know

[32:09]  people pay to go Skydive I was getting paid to skydive and I and I didn't enjoy it I was getting paid to scuba dive didn't enjoy it paid to rock climb like it just all these things that being paid to do then it's just like oh I got to go jump again like this it just was work and it was it was stress and I didn't want to do that anymore so after working on myself and with a psychologist I started to enjoy those things before we go going onto our alert cycle we set up a climbing trip to Boise Idaho um it was going to be more of a morale building team building trip and part of our job is Mountain Rescue um rock climbing lead climbing so we had two combat controllers with us and and a few of us PJs and so we're going to work on just leag climbing and single pitch routes and really easy easy stuff um just going

[33:00]  to be a fun trip stat side before we go into our alert cycle um so so brought out um the team and one guest uh Peter was a guest on the team and uh as we set up our second climb of the day or at least I'm sorry our second day of climbing we we're finishing our last climb of the day and one of my guys him and I were cleaning up and I was like man it's like 3:30 or something like that it's time for us to I think we're I think we're all climbed out let's go uh let's go pack up and then head head down and and head back it's like a 45 minute drive back into town we we'll grab a beer and and some dinner and as we turn the corner one of the guys is are is climbing and I was like hey what's the what's the plan hey Peter what's what's the plan here I was hoping we'd be done

[33:49]  he's like oh we're going to do the same thing we did yesterday climb to the top get everybody to the top set up a ble and ble everybody down and he was like it'll take like 30 minutes and I was like all right 30 minutes this should be quick it looks like a pretty easy route so one of our guys gets the top first second guy gets blade up um he moves over and he's sets up a rope in the chains third guy is a controller he gets up to the top fourth gu a controller he gets the top and now I'm starting my climb as I start my climb the um as but right before I start my climb the third dude uh was trying to get over the edge of the cliff to blay or repel himself down on the rope and there was a little bit of a a drop there just made it really uncomfortable to to

[34:36]  go down um so Peter naturally was like Hey I'm going to take the rope and I'm going to move the anchor further back and I was like hey are there chains back there and he said no putting putting Pro in the Rock um so a cam and a nut and I was like man I don't really I'm not really down with that I don't want you to do that to be honest um I want you to keep it in the chains and so as him and I had some dialogue back and forth and uh you know we're all team leaders we're all of the same capacity and as far as um skill sets and and I was like all right man I'm gonna let him make his decision we'll talk about why I want to keep it in the chains um and then and you know smearing like different techniques and getting over the edge and so set it up and that guy that

[35:24]  controller he was able to set up his repel and get down safely I start of my climb I got to the top second controller starts getting over the edge um and as he starts clearing the edge there's a shift in the Rock and I was like Peter is everything good Allan or one of our other guys asked say is everything good um and Peter looks at the anchor kind of gives it a couple tugs and he said yeah I think the pro was just setting in place a little bit harder a little bit deeper so it actually might be harder to get out and get undone and I was like all right cool man continue on and so I'm teaching one of my guys here just kind of what I like to build for my Pro anchors and as he gets down about halfway down the guy that's on the Rope the anchor fails so the the pro that was in the Rock failed so one side blew the cam or the nut blew and then it shock

[36:13]  loaded the other side because the anchor that was built was called the quad anchor and it shifted over and you have probably about a six to 8 inch shock load and then it blew that other side and so now the Rope so the guy that's on the Rope falls about 30 feet um and then Peter he was tied into the anchor so he was in that closed system and the weight of the one G was on the Rope pulled Peter off of the very top so Peter fell about 60 to 70 feet um so I'll just never forget you know the sound of the Rope going by and then what Peter was saying as he was getting over flying over the edge and flipping over and then ultimately landing on his back really right on top of this Stone and bouncing over and uh and I you know never forget the sound that one of the other PJs of him calling Peter's name and um you know

[37:02]  all right I have to now take over as a team leader and guide this um this treatment plan so you know the thing that was going through my mind was he he probably broke his back um he probably has a couple injuries um but we can we can treat him and stabilize him I don't maybe he's got a broken neck um just by the way he landed um so I don't want him to be moved and so when one of the guys that was on the ground I say hey just run over don't flip him over cuz he was laying on his stomach don't flip him over just I need you to feel for a pulse unless him breathing and he said he's like yeah I got a pulse and and I can't tell if he's breathing though and then he then as I'm said I got my repel he's like I lost the pulse I said don't move him I will be down in a minute um I repelled down um got down there and I

[37:52]  looked L and felt my own and I didn't feel anything we rolled him over um safely I could feel that he had some broken bones um saw some broken bones and look and listen and felt again and still had nothing and said hey you need to start start CPR sorry my dog just knocked over bab me totally good um sorry and so um Luke leson felt so we started CPR and um as the other PJ got down we ended up just um continuing with a CPR and I asked him to get the med Ruck and U prepare to inate him try to inate but it was UN I couldn't guarantee that the tube was in um so ultimately end up having to do what's called the

[38:41]  surgical cke surgical crack with thy thyroid aomy um so cutting a hole in his neck and putting a tube there in his his throat um so I made sure that that was in and then we did a finger thorocotomy um it's kind of like a chest tube without the tube and you can see the blood just kind of pour out of chest and so we didn't have blood to replace um so I knew we going to seal it back up and then get in the hold uh on the line with um the dispatcher for for 911 and and really asked hey I need you to lunch LifeLight like right now and so this was a little bit of a a lesson learned of I had always assumed that LifeLight would just be easy to call and say hey this is who we are this is my qualifications I'm a licensed paramedic come out and help us and and they wouldn't launch and so that was like oh we're doing CPR right

[39:30]  now I like I need you to launch like that you don't have launch Authority and and I understood it but I was very frustrated at that time and I could see the fire department driving back and forth not knowing where we were so I sent one of our guys down to go try to get their attention and one of the guys like I mean he sprinted up up this hill was probably about 400 meters and he was there quick and so we got there with the Monitor and continue to work on um and I said hey man like does LifeLight have a hoist and he said no and so that was kind of like where hope kind of went away and I was like there's no way we're going to get him down off the side of this mountain and continue to do CPR um to get him into an ambulance or even into the helicopter down below so once we got him on the monitor um I told the

[40:18]  other guys to step away and I knew I because I knew it was going to come up and it was going to be Flatline it be assist Elite and I know I didn't want them to to see it I don't I don't know why I just wanted it to to just be me to to have to experience that and to know that that the finality of it all um and so when it did come up I saw it and I said hey can you unplug it check the cables again we'll check the tube and then try again and so we did that and I was thankful that they tried again and and ultimately ended up declaring him dead there on the scene um and so that was a real um devastating moment that you know I lost a lot of teammates in my in my you know in combat or even in in other accidents like car accidents and or them

[41:05]  taking their own life but never in a training asset that I was a team leader of and that I was treating them um you know and thinking about his family he was married um with a one-year-old and his wife was pregnant at the time so all of these these things came all at the same time as these different emotions of like with the memorial the funeral I'm going to have to fly back home and see his team I'm going to have like I wanted them all to hate me um and so uh I made the hardest phone call I've ever had to make and call my team leader and or my boss and say that they one of our teammates just died on the on the side of the mountain so that threw me back into my depression back into like I lost everything at that moment and uh pulled myself off a team and worked on myself with those same modalities of

[41:53]  treatment that I described with my psychologist and uh and then I Tim me came back onto the team and when I came back we ended up deploying within 36 hours of me being back on a on a short notice phone call deployment successful deployment came back um was going to deploy again a month after getting back so it got back in March of 2020 um and was going to deploy in May and in April the accident closed out um the acent investigation closed out and they said hey there's nothing that you could have done to change what happened or to change the outcome however um we are going to hold you accountable and responsible for what happened as the team thinker and you are going to be removed from your position and from the unit so this unit I had spent so much time trying to get to U and you know I'd

[42:43]  spent many deployments on and um so much time away from my family was now I was now just being kicked out of this unit that I tried so hard to get to so that threw me back into a depression and now I had a piece of pap to show my psychologist like see told you it's my fault um it says it right here and so that was a really challenging time that actually probably threw me in a worse depression than than I've ever been in um because I lost my confidence to do anything I didn't want to go anywhere they were going to send me to another another unit in fact back to my old unit in in uh Vegas and uh I knew that that just wasn't going to be good for me and my family so I ultimately pursued a medical retirement um with a diagnosis of PTSD and then started the next pathway out um which is

[43:32]  just kind of working on myself for about a year of of figuring out hey what do I do next and and really that's what ultimately led to the start of the nonprofit man it breaks my heart to hear that story um and the gravity of the responsibility that you felt for yourself you know um my heart honestly broke a little bit when you said that you took the piece of paper to your you know psychologist and said see this is proof that I told you you know that's just an incredibly heavy burden to carry yeah yeah and I know she had been battling just you know um in my mind and you know it'll never change that I will always blame myself there will always be significant blame like I will always bear the burden of guilt um no matter what who tells me no matter

[44:20]  how many times somebody tells me I I just will always have that um and so now like you know with all of her consistent battling of of trying to help me see that it's not my fault I was battling every step of the way and now like you know I think I was just looking for her way to say like hey fine it is your fault now what um and so like but she never did and and I don't and she never would right so yeah so we have this incident we pursue uh medical discharge and now we take on the challenge of starting a nonprofit so why are we going down the path of starting

[45:08]  the nonprofit and what are we trying to solve through Shields and Stripes yeah so um starting to figure out what am I going to do for Second Life went through several different transition a couple transition programs and internships and I knew that I wanted to um do something in the Wellness bace I knew like I had an experience with a company called exos that had went there for a shoulder injury um and just that was just one of the best times that I'd had in working in a performance environment I was very focused on like just making an individual feel good physically and uh and I knew the tools that we had at the unit were like that's what it's supposed to be and not everybody can use it or does use it the way it should be um and maybe it's not executed the way that it should be

[45:55]  because everybody has different ideas and when you say tools what do you mean um I'm talking like strength conditioning coaches your physical therapists just your dietician so like really taking the time out of your day to go you leverage those tools or leverage those resources to say all right like I am doing everything I can rather than like some some folks going to a CrossFit gym and and that's great that's that's fine that's your thing um I'll take the opportunity to use the red light bed or the sauna or the coal plunge I take the time to do those things and a lot of guys don't and then they don't realize what they had until they don't have it anymore um so I I used those for a year as I was process out processing and as I took an internship with exos I had a vision in 2025 I'm going to start this business

[46:44]  which was going to be uh Focus it's going to be a performance facility it's going to have a focus on Veterans and First Responders because my dad spent so long being a police officer so near and dear to my heart and uh they don't get any of those things that that uh that I had um so as I thought there was going to be a job at exos after my internship and I was like hey so what's the next steps here and he's like there's not a job for you and I was like uh what am I going to do and he said well do the thing that you said you were going to start doing we just start your business and I said well I don't know how to even start that and so he walked me down the pathway of like okay we got to go I went through Legal Zoom and you know what he did and and what I should do so the the other thing was like if I start this business

[47:30]  is it a nonprofit or is it a for-profit and and so we walked in some exercises of what it's going to cost and what somebody would be willing to pay and I said man all of that sounds more like a nonprofit than a for-profit so ended up uh looking to see if there's anybody any nonprofits or businesses doing the thing that I want to do so I don't reinvent the wheel maybe I just join their program and nothing of nothing really came out to be doing what I envisioned and so um the closest was a organization or a company called 5x5 performance therapy which run by Dr Jennifer burn and didn't know her at the time reached out to her on on LinkedIn and uh and we ended up talking and I was like hey here's what I want to do like you know you're in the same space can we collaborate a little bit and it turns

[48:17]  out her husband is a combat rescue officer who was is the officer version of my old job of of being a PJ and we actually St together in Vegas and I was like oh man I didn't know that like hopefully he doesn't think I was a an a-hole um that was a different Steve at the time and uh and so um fortunately like we we ended up talking and and and as as she was giving me kind of feedback in like coaching and mentorship I was like I don't need that I I need just kind of somebody to join this problem just this Mission with me are you in or you out and so she was like I'm in um so we developed a business plan figured out who we want to service how how we want to do it um had the relationship with exos still and said hey exos if I bring in veterans at First Responders into

[49:05]  your facility and we hired mental health clinicians to do kind of an intensive clinic inside of there would you be willing to to help facilitate and they agreed to it and um we ran two pilot programs one one being a week long and the other one being two weeks long at least the impers portion and uh and then those were successful and we ended up settling on a 3-week in-person experience and then a 9we uh tella Health offramp so the individuals would apply online on our website they would get screened by our mental health clinicians um really looking for any kind of uh dependencies or uh you know drug abuse alcohol abuse anything like that things that we're not Ty that we typically don't work with that that we

[49:52]  wouldn't be a good fit for them and then as well as acute suicidal ideation those those types of things that you know it's going to take time to get into our program so um there are other organizations that do manage those particular things and we'll we'll uh direct them that way but for us it's a very particular group of people who are ready um who are somewhat stable but and but looking for for growth and treatment looking to to as I was you know I was in a place I was still stable I wasn't threatening to take my life but I was looking for how do I get better so so um the individuals would go to exos um right now is what our partnership is with in Phoenix Arizona or Gulf Breeze Florida where they would receive the strength conditioning program they would meet

[50:39]  with a dietitian for consult they would get fed on site um with food meals made specific for them physical therapist um and then in in between that time frame those three weeks so that massage yoga do cold plunge sauna um all those different things and then in the afternoon after lunch they would do their individual and group therapies with the mental health clinician and occupational therapists for psycho education and things like that so do that every day uh except for the weekends for three weeks really reset their minds and their bodies and then send them back home and instead of sending them back home to their problems we offramp them with a tella health model where they still have a strength conditioning coach and a PT and a dietitian and a and a mental health clinician and now we peer into their cabinets or their pantry to say hey what

[51:27]  are you eating now like at home and how do we replicate what we were doing at at exos um likewise here's some tools that that were given to you from theab body and big fish Foundation that can if you don't have a gym there's some bands and some sliders and things that you can continue to work on your physical therapy um and then with a mental health provider saying okay now you're back home and and we can incorporate the family you can do group sessions with the family and make sure that they understand who this new person is back home and really R them to be pretty much on their own and and going out and conquering the world um and so we've run I believe seven programs so far um and very successful um each one of them have been U very unique and dynamic in their own ways but they they've all been met with um rave reviews and and

[52:17]  life-changing experiences and I say life-changing also because even in this last one that we just hosted a couple months ago H more than half of them got tattooed toing their bodies of this logo right here and uh so it's a pretty incredible thing that you know a logo that my wife and I created in my truck as we're just driving down the road I'm like hey what do you think about this is now permanently on somebody else's body um so that's something that uh I never imagined so um but yeah we service veterans and First Responders and active duty members um and it costs about $220,000 give or take on the economy for travel which gets them the all the services provided um a Fair the lodging for 3 weeks in a resort hotel um and then all the The Clinical Services that are

[53:04]  providing what an amazing solution man to such a complex problem I want to talk a little bit about you know the perception of helping people deal with challenges like we're talking about today often says like just go talk to a therapist a psychologist it's all about the mental but we're talking about so many other elements of the whole person Health here and I feel like it's really important to emphasize why nutrition exercise Sonic cold plunge or a part of this I would say protocol rather than just talk therapy yeah great I'm not a scientist or a doctor or anything but uh there is something to be said you know if you look at just depression in general a lot of folks just wear it in on their body um whether it's a destructive Behavior or habit and everybody's got their own Vice or their own destructive Behavior whether it's

[53:50]  alcohol maybe it's overeating um lack of physical fitness poor sleep um making poor decisions whether it's you know infidelity and things like that um just to like feel alive um and all those things are affect you physiologically so if we can attack all of those at the very same time uh what tremendous strides and growth that we can make if we are working on physical fitness if we're working on our diets and we're working at the same time on on our mental health and especially if we do their physical fitness stuff in the mornings and and they Tire themselves out and they get exhausted now they're significantly more vulnerable in the afternoons to because they put it all out there and their endorphins are flowing they're feeling good um and then they get in the afternoon after eating

[54:38]  and hitting the sun in the cold plung and it's like I'm ready to talk I'm ready to get it out and and talk through my experiences and there's a lot of other treatment modalities out there like you know your psychedelics and things like that but I think a lot of those are push button um medications and things like that like I've heard great experiences but then you go back to your problems and and let's say another trauma takes place and you don't have any tools other than like okay I guess I better go back out and take some more drugs or or some more herbal medicines to to make it go away again like we're leaving here with a whole new Foundation um that that encompasses the whole body and the mind and the spirit for those that are spiritually inclined we we do have a a kind of a religious or or faith-based um speaker that comes and offers that as an opportunity need for

[55:27]  um treatment and peace so Hopey that answer your question I did man I mean we're talking about like a whole person reset here through you know physical exertion through cold reset of cold plunge sauna nutrition everything else is kind of integrated into this protocol which I feel like is so powerful because often you know just in the society that we live in it's so easy to prescribe a medication or a one-time thing to help us very transparently get away from the feeling that we're feeling right now but the true change comes and we have the opportunity to face these challenges these emotions these feelings head on tackle them and then move forward on a New Foundation which I feel like is so powerful how are how can we help with the mission of what you guys are doing here for everybody who's tuning in

[56:14]  listening to your story is inspired just like I am how can we contribute to spread the word or contribute to the cause and the mission of what you guys are doing yeah I appreciate that yeah I'll add one more thing as well is is a lot of these like you said they prescrib something um and you see a lot of if you just look at the business of big Pharma and doctors and things like that you you want to think they're all doing Goodwill um but there's money involved and if they prescribe medications the doctor is getting a cut they're getting a cut of that pharmaceutical of you know depending on how what they're prescribing so um a lot of these folks that that come through our program are oftentimes told they can't do something and and they believe it and they're told it so often so much and their prescribed medications so so often that they and they they're told they can't do it they believe it and then they show up to our

[57:02]  program and you have a really excellent strength efficient coach Giovani and the others that that are out there as well and the physical therapists and they're like hey you can do this you you can pick up this weight you can physically do these things it's going to be hard it's going to be challenging but we're going to break that mental barrier of of being told you can't so you can and it's and it might be uncomfortable when when you see the successes um you're going to just continue to expound upon those and and several of them you know the after the first week of of doing the program come off of those pain meds that they've been on for a decade because they're just like oh I didn't know that I didn't have I didn't need it and that maybe just like physical work and and building a good strong pillar is going to prevent the the pains that I've been having so granted there are some instances and

[57:49]  some cases where you know pain meds are necessary or certain medications are necessary but um you know I would say a lot of them are pretty just like built into their because they've just been told in told so much what to believe um but to answer your question um how can they help you can go on our website um ww. Shield stripes. org um a lot of different opportunities to get involved um whether it's volunteering for For an upcoming event um whether it's just sharing what we do and how we do it you can find us on social media Pages um and and then donating to our our program or donating to our to our cause I don't get paid out of this my co-founder doesn't um so all the money is really going to the program and making sure that we continue to to help the people that need the help we have a pretty high demand there's about 100 150 people that have applied and are waiting for for services for our

[58:38]  services and and ultimately the goal is to get to a place where we have our own facility on our own building and we can really get you know instead of eight people at a time we can get 200 people a year going through these these programs really make a significant impact and not just in one building but a building in every single state Across the Nation that's that's what we want that's the the big Vision the 50 you know 50 years from now that's that's the goal is to be that big um so we can't do it without your help without your support in getting there even if it's you know $5 $10 100 um all of it goes to to really helping our cause to to help more people and and and you know what I guess I'll finish with what makes us different why why us over others um is there's a lot of great programs out there um I call

[59:26]  them Feelgood programs you know there's a lot of uh hunting and vacation and Retreats and things like that that's great you need that you got to go do those things um and those are very helpful for your mental well-being um however it's not treatment it is not a treatment plan it is not a treatment program um because you're going to eventually go back to all your problems and those problems are still going to be there um ours is a treatment program and that's what I like to outline is very different is it's a treatment you're receiving treatment you're receiving care um both physically and mentally um and you leave there with tools to become a better Steward of your community become a better parent become a better son sibling Uncle who whomever it is that's in your circle you will ultimately see a change in that your

[1:00:14]  circle will see a change so that's how mouthful but trying to get it all out there man I really appreciate everything that you're doing Steve um from the lived experience from the challenges that you've overcome but your your confidence in creating solutions for the future not just a Band-Aid fix is something that is truly inspiring man I can't thank you enough for coming on the show I really appreciate it I appreciate uh appreciate you having me it's been a pleasure all right guys down in the comments you're going to see all of the information about Shields and stripe how you can donate how we can give more information and how we can support this amazing Mission all right that's when to wrap catch you guys in the next one