How Sharon Butler-Obazee Is Redefining Adoption Coaching by Centering the Adoptee Experience

[0:00]  as an adoptee, you know, we didn't have a choice in the whole situation. We don't have a ch. We don't know what we're going to become or who we're going to be. We just know that we're wake up one day and and there's people around us and maybe we don't feel as comfortable with them as we'd like to feel, but they're taking care of us and and hand caring for us and everything else. But that DNA that sparks in the back of our our head, you know, that, you know, gives us our strengths and our talent and some of our characteristics even, you know, is going to um have an impact.

[0:29]  You know, I it thinking about my story and the fact that my father um biological father um was not a faith oriented person when I was conceived but he ended up in the church and becoming a pastor and all these things. Well, when I was a, you know, he he was a a well-known um resource in the community and all the pastors used to come to him to ask him what to say or how does this work or you know in part he's a resource to the community and so um I didn't find out about any of this stuff until 2017 which you know I didn't I was hoping to go through a reunion but I was afraid I thought it wasn't enough this I I didn't deserve it you know that kind of mindset And so when I found out

[1:18]  about him, I it was kind of like a light went off inside of me and I realized, no wonder I'm always thinking faith oriented stuff, you know? No wonder that's important to me. Adoption is a beautiful thing, but let's be real, it is also complicated. Too often we focus on the adoptive parents, but what about the adopes themselves?

[1:54]  What happens when love or love alone isn't enough? Today's guest, Sharon, Miss Butler Obazi, is that is I say correct? Yes, you did. Two points. Cool. Cool. So, today's guest, Sharon, is here to challenge is to just challenge the way we think about adoption parenting and really to support adopes that actually need the assistance. Sharon, welcome to the Heart and Hustle podcast.

[2:17]  If I was to just say, Sharon, I meet you at a coffee shop. I always love this question. I say, Sharon, what what are you most excited about in life when it comes to what you do? What does that actually sound like? Oh gosh, what I'm most excited about, you know, family first of course, but actually what I'm doing now, what I'm doing now and the person I've become after so much uh trial and error, you know, throughout life and learning and everything else, I feel like um the position I'm in right now is uh really exciting because we're um blazing a new trail by introducing a course for to help people who want to coach coach adopes or the adoption triad I should say. Um we're training them. So we're training and we've been certified now by

[3:04]  ICF, the International Coaching Federation. And so we're accredited now. We're offering continued education. And I'd never dreamed I'd ever get to this position or have this opportunity before me. And you could have done anything in life, right? And you're in this space. Why did you choose adoption coaching? Like why is this your mission? Oh my goodness. Well, as you mentioned in the beginning, I'm an adoptee and so living the experience I had as a child um going through uh the trauma and trying to determine exactly who I am, knowing my identity and trying to figure out my what is my culture look like, what is my heritage and uh those are questions that every single child I believe that's adopted has in the back of their mind whether they can form formally state it

[3:52]  or not. It's kind of like a feeling that, you know, they're in the wrong place. So, I went through all the mishaps and and good things that happened and basically got positioned after working corporately into this um arena. I became certified as a coach and then what made better sense in the world than to be an adoption coach because I've lived that life and done that journey. I love it. What was the hardest part? I mean, and we also talked um briefly before this um podcast and I also told you I was adopted and yes, we all go through so many similar experiences. A lot of times we feel like we're in alone um in it. And so I love that I'm on this conversation because it's not too many times that I speak to another adoptee that is just so passionate about what they do and they're giving back in that space.

[4:38]  Right. So I ask you while you were adopted, it comes with some hard challenges. What was the hardest part of your journey for you? I think uh realizing that I was enough, just knowing that I was enough and it was okay and I I it was okay for me to be who I am and try and learn more about myself. Um you know, because somehow in the process of being adopted, we lose ourselves. I mean, I lost myself. I don't know about you, but I I had that experience and you know, looking in the mirror at 16 years of age and saying, "Who is this? Who am I? where do I belong and why did I come to this point in life and what am I gonna do with the rest of my life? So, you know, you have all these questions and no answers. So, uh then you're relying on the world, the

[5:26]  parents you that raised you, the environment you're in, the systems you're um living in to tell you and identify you as a person. And so, I allowed that all to happen without realizing that I had my strengths. I had my journey. I had my desires and wishes and things I wanted to do myself. So, um just realizing that I was enough and I deserved the information and about my heritage and everything else that I finally got later. Um and that it was okay. It's all okay. It is. It truly is.

[5:58]  And and that we were truly blessed. I think we were we are one of a kind. I always say I'm so thankful um of the second chance I had in life because I could have been adopted by anybody. And just to think of how grateful I am. Um, not everyone has the opportunity to be adopted. So, it that's where the biggest blessing for me is that maybe I didn't have a family. And not saying that it's perfect and I'm pretty sure maybe you can attest to it Sharon, but not saying that it is perfect, but it does create something within us. And I think that's where the leadership skills come in us.

[6:27]  And that that um that grit comes from us, right? That confidence at times. As much as we think we lack confidence, I don't know about you, but I feel like sometime I lack confidence. But in reality we we lack confidence because of all these deep rooted issues and until you as you mentioned find yourself in this space it becomes a little hard. Um when you spent 30 years in corporate America before pivoting into the coaching space what what made you actually take that leap? Was it that mindset shift to say hey I'm I'm I know my worth. I want to do more and I want to give back into the space. How did it actually look like when you took that leap? Right. Well, when I worked in corporate America, it's I was giving to a system, you know, of workers compensation. I worked in that environment with a medical team and we, you know, sought out solutions for people that had been injured at work.

[7:13]  And I always felt like my little tiny part in that whole my cog in that wheel was um supporting people and helping people through a process that they uh of recovery, you know, and um reestablishing themselves. And so, you know, that kind of gave me the sense of, you know, commitment to and challenge to be there for other people. So, after I had done that for a while and it was time for me to move on to something else, I I wanted to dig deeper, you know, and really challenged myself to do something, you know, that I didn't think I had the capability to do. So that's why I got the the certification as a life coach because you know helping the system getting that done and being successful at it was was good but you know what about my sisters and brothers

[8:02]  and relatives and other uh crib mates I call them adopes um that that I need to help out you know how how can I be a solution for them too and uh in the meanwhile help myself I don't know if you ever um heard about you know or thought about the fact that when people actually get a chance to write a book, you're writing a book and actually it it's a cathartic experience. You know, you live through it and you recover from it and you cry through it and you go through all these things. And I kind of had to get um over that hump, that internal um barrier that was holding me into a uh kind of um into kind of like a hard stone or something. and and I I couldn't find a way to bring myself away from that, you

[8:50]  know. Um so, you know, I decided that maybe this was something that I could help clarify some of the challenges I encountered and give me the insight I needed to become whole. I love it. I love that you're sharing this. And I really want to also kind of talk about that you're not just the the coach for the adopes, which is what you kind of really wanted to uh do directly, but then you realized that the bigger impact was actually in coaching the parents. Um what changed that perspective? Yeah, you know, I started initially as a coach, a life coach, and thinking, "Oh, I'm going to have all these adopes and they're just going to be wonderful and my experience is going to be grand." And as I started talking to people and realizing the trauma that had influenced them, the loss they were experiencing, the disconnect that they had between who they were and who they

[9:39]  wanted to become, you know, I re recognized that basically it's important to encourage them and give them um the value and and the information that they had in locked inside them and try and bring that out. But some of their issues were um deeper deeper than a coach is capable of going uh to. And so I ended up recommending therapists to people.

[10:03]  You know, we get through maybe one or two sessions. And I would say, "Hey, you know, this is a pretty deep situation. Maybe we need to get you over to a therapist." And so I'd have a couple of therapists I work with and I would make the referral to them. And so um the reality set in that um you know these children who had these people who had been children at some point in time um were in a home with a parent who guided them and tried to help them and thought that I can love them through everything that they potentially might need. Um who maybe might have been misguided and maybe you know they didn't have all the information they needed. Maybe there was aspects of trauma that they didn't associate with or understand. And maybe they um didn't allow the the child to interact with their birth family. And you know, there's so many um things that

[10:51]  can occur through the process of development uh that a child, especially adopted child needs. And so my determination to uh still work in the community and support the triad focused refocused onto the parent and realizing that you know that is where the the rubber hits the road. You know if I can help the a parent to understand um how to access the mindset of the adoptee then I could probably influence and help the duct indirectly. I I do agree. Yeah, I do agree at that that parent level and very similar to you, I started a nonprofit and my my goal was to work with young adults, but then I realized how important it was to really talk to the parents because no matter how much you're actually pouring into these young

[11:38]  kids, in reality, they go home and something else is being poured into them or something else, they're being taught a different way. But if we can get into those homes, especially of those that are adoptive parents, and they get to hear it from a perspective of an adoptee like myself or or or you, it becomes a little bit different because we actually get to put our our trauma out there, our experiences, and be very transparent because listen, we're not kids anymore.

[12:03]  You know, we understand now that we're adults and we got to do what we got to do and sometimes even still suffer in silence. I actually just recently I'm still trying to figure this one out. By the way, Sharon, maybe you can help me here. So, I was listening to someone the other day, another leader, and she's in a space of um drugs and alcohol. She's recovering u after she's now sober 14 years. And so, she created this because of her own experiences, right? But as and I asked her, what was that thing that really keeps you motivated, that keeps you driven through hard times? And she said, my daughter. And and when she gives me a hug and kiss and says it's going to be okay. And I don't know what hit me right there, Sharon. I don't have a relationship with my mom, but I know she's into drugs. I know that it's still something. I know that's what why I was taken away. Okay? And I didn't know that I even felt that way. And I started get

[12:50]  to get emotional. And to this day, I'm asking like, man, is there something deeprooted that I don't even know? Because sometimes it's so easy to sweep things under the rug and not bring it to light. As a parent myself, we talked about speaking to parents. As a parent myself, sometimes I need to have these conversations because what happens, it would actually come out at some point.

[13:09]  maybe through anger, maybe through whatever that may look like for people, right? So, I kind of love that you you're in this space of let's speak to these adults. Let's speak to the parents so they can actually uh be aware of what's really going on, especially from those directly that have been impacted such as myself and you that had to go through those, you know, systems and changes and things like that. Right.

[13:28]  Right. Well, what are some of the biggest misconceptions that adoptive parents actually have about raising an adopted child? You know, it's interesting as you were talking about, you know, the relationship with your parent and why you're, you know, placed in a a different environment, a safer environment and, um, what happened through that transition, uh, and how it's influencing you. Now, I think one of the things that parents don't realize is the person that they're adopting has a epigenetic background. There's a DNA that is influencing them and their behavior and their characteristics and their strengths and their knowledge. And so they're thinking that I got this little baby and it's going to be beautiful and I'm going to encourage it to and raise it to be a successful adult because of my influence. They're going

[14:15]  to be able to to, you know, leave behind whatever negative things that might be influencing them and uh the grief and the loss and the trauma and all that that they might be experiencing. I I'm going to ignore that because I'm just going to go ahead and raise this child and it's going to be a beautiful experience for both of us. So um you know with that DNA and the and the markers that we come forward with um you know good or bad you know it's a part of us and it it's inherent in our psyche and we're going to become the people that we were supposed to become you know and the ability of the parent to f provide us a safe environment so we can flourish is a plus you know that's a plus I mean hands out and and uh you know salutes to all all the parents that

[15:03]  take on adoption because that is a trial and error thing and they're going to be challenged very it's complex and there's a lot of challenges in it. Um, so that I I think you know my parents, everybody's parents, uh, you know, regardless adoption are biological. I my hats off and I'm a parent, too, so I can kind of relate to some of this. But, um, at the same time, the the complexities and everything else that come with adoption make it a little bit more difficult.

[15:31]  And, um, you know, as an adoptee, you know, we didn't have a choice in the whole situation. We don't have a ch. We don't know what we're going to become or who we're going to be. We just know that we're wake up one day and and there's people around us and maybe we don't feel as comfortable with them as we'd like to feel, but they're taking care of us and and hand caring for us and everything else. But that DNA that sparks in the back of our our head, you know, that, you know, gives us our strengths and our talent and some of our characteristics even, you know, is going to um have an impact. You know, I it thinking about my story and the fact that my father um biological father um was not a faith oriented person when I was conceived but he ended up in the church and becoming a pastor and all these things. Well, when

[16:21]  I was a, you know, he he was a u a well-known um resource in the community and all the pastors used to come to him to ask him what to say or how does this work or you know in part he's a resource to the community and so um I didn't find out about any of this stuff until 2017 which you know I didn't I was hoping to go through a reunion but I was afraid I thought it wasn't enough this I I didn't deserve it you know that kind of mindset And so when I found out about him, I it was kind of like a light went off inside of me and I realized, no wonder I'm always thinking faith oriented stuff, you know, no wonder that's important to me. And so, you know, certain things that we have as individuals um and the characteristics we have receive from our

[17:11]  parents, you know, it moves on. And I think adoptive parents need to recognize and understand that you know this I call it the uh nature that someone comes forward with is a part of them and it's not going to change you know even though you might influence a child and give it safety and everything they still have their own inherent characteristics that they live with. And so the adopted parent is really called to nurture the nature that that person is born with.

[17:41]  You're born with characteristics and things that you think are important. And if the adoptive parent can see through to to uh nurture that and try and help you succeed at who you are rather than to to put you in a different mold and put you somewhere where you're uncomfortable and all those things. So, I don't know if I answered your question, but you did. I I you know I'm truly just um excited to be a part of this conversation with you because I'm actually starting to think like did I ever have a conversation with someone that was adopted like this on this platform where we're able to showcase it and and I don't think I have you know and I maybe maybe I have and they just haven't been so open. I love when I get to find someone that is so open in the space and and really you know I learn from them as much as you know maybe they learn from me. I don't know. Hope that there is something that you take away from here. But I also want to kind of

[18:29]  talk about because I think there's a gap when it comes to adoption education. H how does your program actually fill those gaps and why is there such a big gap in adoption education? I just think that there's lack of knowledge now. Um I was actually born in the closed adoption era. So, I didn't have a chance to tell my biological parents and and it's finally beginning to open up and and people are beginning to recognize the adopes are really the experts in all this because they are the one to go through the whole entire process. And so, our organization really is helping uh adopted parents with misconceptions, you know, that that trauma is not as critical as it it is it as it really is. They don't realize that the baby in utero is born is in a

[19:18]  process of understanding who their parents are and who who is a career caregiver who is who are the people that I'm going to surround myself with once I get out of here. It's subconscious. You don't realize that you're thinking this or even have an idea about it, but that's how you recognize your mom after you're born because you've been hearing her voice and you you've kind of come accustomed to her moans and groans or whatever she's going through. And so when you come out of the womb, you're wait, you know, your ears and you're perked up and waiting to hear that voice, that same voice and get comfort from the mother who, you know, has been having you in your uterero. Well, that separation between, you know, the birthing process and into another person's arms is a trauma for a child.

[20:03]  And so the trauma can actually begin in uterro if the mother's going through a hard time. you know, it's hard for the baby and then when the baby is born and given to another p person, it's again a difficult situation and more trauma is layered on top of the first trauma until um the parent who is getting the baby thinks I'm getting this wonderful child and we're going to be able to make it through life and it's going to be great.

[20:28]  Well, chronic stress influences and impacts the child through their development years. And so um you know they're not they're not understanding sometimes um that the depth of the trauma and that love is not going to be enough for the child and that you know you have to be curious about what is driving this child's psyche you know what is actually the problem that they're having at the core you know and you know just really try and work that out. The thing about adopes is sometimes we don't say things out loud even though we're feeling them. You know, we just try and keep it to ourselves and we don't want to hurt our parents um you know and and make them feel bad. So, we just run around with these ex internal feelings to ourselves and actually it

[21:17]  has a profound uh short-term and long-term effect on you and the child and their development. And uh so it's important that um adopted parents understand that um you know giving care and um uh helping the child to you know develop develop through the milestones is important but there's also a a lot of curiosity that they need to bring to the situation to the table to try and uncover who this child actually is.

[21:49]  So amazing. You got me here thinking. You got me in my head Sharon. Let me tell you, I'm over here thinking like, wait a minute, I go back. You know, I was adopted when I was 2 years old. So, I'm over here thinking like, damn, that was trauma. You know, when I sit here and think about that was two years, you know, that I spent and then stripped away. And then, you know, I I seen her maybe once or twice as I was growing up.

[22:09]  And, you know, so I can only imagine that there's some there that we got to dig up a little bit. But, I want to know how different is coaching from therapies? uh because I think they they may people may think that they're both the same, but ideally they they may be very similar, but they're not the same.

[22:25]  Can you kind of talk about what's the difference between um coaching and therapy when it comes to helping adopted families? Right. Well, therapy is more or less um communication to a person who is ill. And so that's why therapists can diagnose. They can diagnose a person and have a conversation. They look into the history of the person and how they got to where they are at the present time and then help them formulate goals or strategies to move forward which is a good thing. Um you know but it it deals mostly with people who are ill um and maybe have some kind of an issue that may need medication or some other heavier type u of skill set than a coach. A coach works with a person to help the person identify who they are as

[23:13]  an individual. Not through telling them as a therapist might tell them you have a diagnosis of AB and C. A coach actually allows a person to go through the process of identifying who they are through questions that help them go deeper into their subconscious and feel out realistic ideas that actually fit to help them understand what what barriers am I up against? And it's typically working with people who are somewhat healthy. You know, we're not a doctor.

[23:46]  You wouldn't come to us if you were ill or sick and expect us to give you any kind of medication. A therapist uh that's what a therapist does. A coach really works with you to uh in a proactive way to help you go deeper into your uh knowledge base and ask you questions that help you bring out the um issues that you might not even thought about. But it's been said and and studies show that when if I sit here and told you to go to the grocery store at 12:00, you might not go. But if you said, "I'm going to the grocery store at 12:00," you're going, you know? So, we work with people to help them to determine what it is they want from life and help them get there. I love it.

[24:31]  Actually when I went um I had a session myself and by the end of it just the questions that were being asked and I'm sitting here thinking and I'm answering I'm like oh wow that didn't make sense like why wasn't I thinking about it but it takes someone to really ask that trigger that moment for you to even think that way. It's all about to me is that's why I say mindset is so important like that mental aspect of just life is is crucial. Um you and I both know that that feeling of not fully fitting in. We talked about it just a little bit earlier, but how can parents truly better support their adopted children through identity struggles? You know, one sometimes they can't provide a complete solution. Um they they can work with the child to find out, you know, what their strengths are, what they like to do, what what their um interests are, you know, how they see themselves, you

[25:21]  know, and help them to feel as best as they possibly can about who they are and what they want. But um the reality is um that birth parents are involved in the whole calculation. So you really have to be open to an open conversation with the birth parent and possibly bringing the birth parent into the scenario so that there's interaction between all parties.

[25:44]  Um that way the um the the child can understand who they are, their identity and and where they got their nose and how come they feel like a certain way and and those kinds of things. um as but you're not in in jeopardy of losing your parenting role. You know, you're still going to be the parent and the child is still going to come and relax in the bed that you've prepared for them to stay in. So uh but having the ability to uh at that intersection allowing all the parties to meet together is really going to help the child to uh improve in their self analysis and understand that um they are important and who they are is important and it just really helps to boost their confidence. So if adopted

[26:33]  parents are open uh to an open conversation, I'm not saying that you have to invite them to Thanksgiving dinner, but you know, you should at least, you know, be willing to share in correspondence. And as as comfortable as the adoptee feels, you know, they should be um able to engage with the adopted, I mean, with the birth parent. I recently saw a movie um by Angela Tucker um about her journey to go and find her birth mother and what she went through and it's produced into this movie. Um and so I as I was looking at it, the thing that I thought was most beautiful is that her adopted parent wrote um the uh parent, the biological parent every year. But

[27:22]  the thing is it was a close adoption and the um agency was the only place that she could take and drop off these letters. And so every year there was a new letter and a new picture and a new letter and a new picture. Well, in the process of Angela going through this whole thing to go find her mom, um she found her and at first was rejected by the mother because, you know, she wanted to pretend like this didn't happen. But later on as she warmed up and became familiar with who Angela was and they had this great, you know, interaction together, um they went to the the um agency and sat down to the table and the agency was able to bring out this huge box of all these letters and everything that her her mom had her adopted mom had been writing every single year. And this

[28:12]  there was tears all over the place. I was crying in the audience. You know, it was just such a heartwarming situation to see and um you know, imagine, you know, the benefit to Angela, you know, the just hearing seeing all that come to fruition at one time alto together. It's like full circle. Here's 360 right there, you know. So um having the adopted parents having the u biological parents in involved in the growth of the child is highly significant and I recommend it uh you know 100%. If there's a situation where the parent is not capable, like maybe drugs or whatever, um you don't have to have that parent involved. You can find an auntie, a sister, a brother, a nephew, a somebody in the family who

[29:01]  isn't, you know, impaired in that way and then have that person involved. This is such a good conversation. I ask you another question before we uh transition to another topic, but there's this idea that adoption is actually just about giving a child the home. However, it truly is much deeper than that and the conversation allows us to understand that it's much deeper than that. What's one thing you actually wish every adoptive uh parent knew?

[29:26]  Every I didn't hear the last part. Every adoption. What do you What's one thing that you wish every adoptive parent knew? Oh, every adoptive parent knew that it's going to be a reprite. It's not going to be easy. There's a lot of twists and turns and you know their unrealistic expectations are going to set them up for you know a challenge. You know it's not going to be uh the simplest thing and uh having another person's child is an awesome thing and it's going to be a wonderful journey but at the same time there's going to be peaks and valleys along the whole process.

[30:09]  And h how how is your organization currently thinking about AI as a tool to really help support your clients and help your team possibly do more with less? Have you guys implemented anything technology AI or anything like that? We haven't really. Um basically, you know, the closest to AI would have as a virtual assistant. You know, somebody who can fill in all the blanks and make things look pretty and all that. Um but AI really doesn't have a role. And I and with us and I think the only barrier to that is the fact that it's we're talking about human beings interacting with other human beings here. And so having that human element um involved in the whole process is is what the the whole process needs. I I can't see giving that to a

[30:57]  robot and saying could you fix this mother or child or something. I it doesn't I don't know. It doesn't really realistically make make sense to me. So AI is a useful tool and I think it's going to be beneficial um in terms of tracking and finding and following and creating better systems or something but I don't see it as taking over you know any role in this. Yeah, I think one one way leaders are really utilizing it is having that AI expert, an agent, somebody that could um help their clients and community possibly just access the information with trust information of course because right now I think that's really what skeptical of is is it correct information? Is it safe information? Um so that's what I've seen a lot of leaders do is is just having that

[31:44]  implementation not so much for because you are right we still need that people-to-people aspect. I'm always a big believer even like this conversation. I could I could imagine it would be deeper in person because just the energy that we both would have in person to just be um so willing I mean just to know that we're both adopted in a room together. The energy is crazy, right? Because look where life has brought us. Ideally, statistics show that we weren't supposed to be here, right? We hear that all the time. But look where we've made our careers of of speaking and helping others when when at one point in our lives we wanted to be helped, you know. So, you know, now here we are helping. So, I truly love it. I I love the AI space for those reasons, but I definitely do feel you were on that we don't want to lose that that people, you know, because right now with social

[32:31]  media and technology, we almost losing that them the people stuff, right? Right. No. Well, AI is good for getting the word out. I mean, you know, in terms of telling people who you are and how they can find you and what you do, you know, those kinds of elements of AI are useful and I I can see it being a resource when people aren't sure which information to to trust and believe, you know. So, AI could be a resource for that, too. It could gather books or something and and, you know, spit out some information that is would take you like a year to read. Maybe they can find some way to put that all together. I'm telling you, that's what I do. Sharon, I'm not a big reader. And uh it's actually on my desk. I had this book right here that um when I was in corporate world, my supervisor at the time gave me. And first of all, it's a

[33:19]  big book, okay? Ephra don't read big books. And uh it's a success principles, how to get away from where you were at to where you want to be. And when he shared it to me, he's like, "Hey man, it really changed my life. I'm hoping that it share, you know, it changes yours." And I had it sitting there as I have some other books as there. And I was like, you know what? I really would love to know what the book's about, especially when it's talking about the success principles when I was in a time where I took that leap of faith myself.

[33:41]  And I went and chatt I said, "Hey, can you kind of give me what this book's about and give me key points?" And it did. It literally broke down every section and I'm saying like, "Wow." And I'm I'm doing that. I'm doing that. It was so great to just kind of get a in seconds, right? That that information.

[33:57]  So, I do love it. But let's talk about it. We're about to wrap up here, but for anyone listening who's considering adoption or struggling as an adopted parent, what's your actually um the biggest piece of advice that you that you'll provide? Um I would say um reach out to a professional a coach. I mean, you know, basically the struggle um is part of the journey journey, but you know, overcoming the struggle is probably the goal. So, if you're trying to um be a parent who is um knowledgeable and assertive and helpful to the adoptee, um you know, reach out to the adoption community. I mean even if you just join a support group you know uh that's going to help in giving ideas getting ideas and realistic ideas uh methods maybe to

[34:49]  you know get from point A to point B you know because as we realized in the beginning of this conversation there's commonalities um between you know parties so just having that opportunity to talk with somebody else who's going through the same thing you are is going to be beneficial but of course you know I can't help but recommend my profession which is talking to a coach, you know, cuz that's going to help really uh give you the mindset that you need to go forward. And the reality is, especially with our model, we we have a trifective interconnectivity model where we're not just taking the um consideration of the adopted parent alone. We're considering actually the birth mother, the adopted parent, and the adoptee who's at the center of this whole thing. um to help the parent to overcome the situation. I

[35:38]  mean, we even coach teenagers um that are going through things and help them to overcome, you know, whatever challenge they have before them that's limiting them in life and things. It's helpful to talk to another adoptee about the things you won't even say to your mom or to your parents, you know. So, um you know, we can be a guide for that too, you know. And how can people connect with you and your organization if they want the coach, they want the resources? Okay. Yeah, we can be found at uh giftfamilyervices.com. Um we're actually um if I could at the end of this maybe give you some material on our coaching course so that people could look that up um and uh see if that's something that they want to participate in or maybe they've always had the goal of becoming a coach or maybe they even got coach

[36:25]  certification and they're trying to find out their niche. you know, it it could be any of those scenarios. Or they're a professional, and I've been a professional all this time, but there's never really been any relevant succinct um training on on what to do as an adoption coach and what are the what's the criteria and what matters. And so um and yeah, if you're watching, we'll definitely um have that down in the com I mean in the description section. So those that are looking for more information, we'll be able to provide that. And Sharon, we're going to wrap it up here. This is like the part that you've been you've been waiting on right here. I got to get on and sh like what's the blind question? I'm like Sher, we got to wait till the end. But if you could sit down with your younger self, the little girl who is trying to find her place in the world, what's the one thing you would tell her?

[37:13]  Um, don't be afraid, you know, take that extra step, you know. um you're not you know I remember being a kid and looking at a cartoon and the cartoon the guy would open the door and he said watch out for the first step because there's a big drop so you know I kind of like approached life like that you know I didn't want to step out of my comfort zone because I was afraid and so as a child I would say don't be afraid and uh that would I think take the take all of the binders off that are holding me back so well Sharon has definitely been a pleasure for you guys still watching, make sure that you guys do subscribe.

[37:52]  Make sure that you guys do like and share with those individuals that may need to hear this. Um, two adoptes coming together to really share how you yourself can overcome adversity and not just because you're adopted, because you're going through something in life. Um, find those people as in coaches that would coach you through what it is you're trying to overcome. There's so much help. There's so much resources out there that truly it's to help the mind.

[38:17]  is to help the person that is dealing with some of these struggles. My name is Era. This has been Sharon. This has been the Heart and Hustle Podcast.