How Tim Jansen Grew a Nonprofit from $375K to $15M Without Losing Its Soul

[0:00]  And she's like, "Tim, I'm not your county council person right now. I'm your friend." And she said, "And I love you and your organization is so amazingly respected, needed in the county. Are you sure? Because that organization is a mess." And I was like, "Yeah, yeah, I am sure." Because at some point I just my whole point of view for everything we do is how does this benefit our caller, our chatter, our guest in the shelter or the person that we're doing video phone with. And you know, I just kept thinking about the people in that shelter and I was like, "Good God, I cannot imagine being a victim of intimate partner violence or violence of any kind." But even worse, you know, asking for services and then

[0:50]  then them not being there. And I could remember over the years with that organization trying to get people in and not being able to get them served. Um, shelters that accept the kind of funding they accept are supposed to take everyone. Welcome back to another episode here on the Heart and Hustle Podcast. And before we get into the 30 years of impact, Tim, you've ever have a moment when life really just grabs you by the collar and says, "Hey, this is what you're meant to do." You ever had that moment? I mean, we got to start off

[1:37]  with a good question. Yeah. No, no, absolutely. Um, and and for me, it was uh when I came out in a few decades ago, I was really, really, really fortunate. I didn't lose anybody. All my family was very understanding. My friends were amazing. One of my friends even said, "This is my problem. I love you. I'm going to figure this out." And I remember thinking, "I need to do something to give back because I'm lucky."

[2:09]  And hence my career at Community Crisis Services and in suicide prevention started, you know, because I really felt a need to give back. So, here we are, 30 years. And this organization comes um did you already know existed? Did you fall into it? Um did you get started at the bottom and work your way up? Like what's the story behind how you got in this organization? So it completely happened by chance. I happened to be flipping channels on the TV and there was a you know like a bulletin board ad when people used to use bulletin boards on TV and it said looking for crisis counselors. I'm like, "Well, what the heck? I'll give that a try." And I reached out. They scheduled an interview. I came in. Um, fortunately, at the time, I wasn't working yet. I had

[2:58]  a couple of weeks between um what I had been doing and what I was going to be doing. And I was going to school. And I went in, I did the interview, and then they did this whole well, it's two weeks of training, and you can't miss 5 seconds, and it's 48 hours, and it's all day here and all day there. And I'm like, "Oh, okay. Let's do it." Um, and so I started as a volunteer crisis counselor on the phones. Um, Tuesday nights from 9:00 to midnight for a year.

[3:30]  Um, within that year, I really got to the point where I really looked forward to Tuesday nights and I would block time out. Uh, I was a struggling poor college student. I would turn shifts at the restaurant I was working down on Tuesday night because I desperately wanted to go in and work the hotline phones. Um, hotline phones were slow then. We'd get two, three calls a night, you know, each of us and there were two or three of us there. But, um, I nine months in, I had to leave the state for a few months to take care of some family business in Missouri. And the day I got back, within two hours of walking into my house, the executive director called me and said, "I'd like to give you a paid position answering

[4:19]  the phones 20 hours a week. It fit beautifully into my uh college schedule." So, I took it on. A year later, I got a promotion to a full-time position um by memo in my mailbox. no negotiation of salary, no hours, no title, just here you go, you're now full-time. Um, he resigned, brought in a new exec, and within a few weeks, I became basically her right arm. And she and I spent the next five years really bulking up and building up what was then the Prince George's County hotline. Uh, five years in, she had two small kids. she didn't want to, you know, be on call 247 and she stepped aside and went to work for a local foundation and I had been

[5:10]  preparing for that and I applied for and became at that time in 2004 the executive director. Um, between then and now we have had a meteoric rise. We have gone from uh an organization of about 375,000 a year to 15 million, 101 12,000 calls a year to a quarter of a million. Um and it really is a place I'm supposed to be. I can't imagine being anywhere else. It's rare today to be in one position or in one organization for this long, but in August it will be 29 years, you know. when I started literally answering the phones as a volunteer. Um, and my love, even though we do lots of other things now, my love is picking up

[5:59]  the phone and talking to folks, you know, who need somebody to just listen. I like that, Tim. You're literally the heartbeat behind the community crisis services. Um, leading with love. You mentioned love, strategy, and a whole lot of hustle I can only imagine. All right. What you didn't mention, did school continue, or did you realize I'm walking into my purpose? I'm done. You didn't mention the part about Oscor what happened. So I finished my bachelor's degree before or or as I got promoted I finished my bachelor's degree and when the new exec had come on I was like if I want to be in charge of this organization I have to get my masters.

[6:36]  So I went and got my masters. Um took me 13 years to get my bachelor's degree and I was bound and determined for my masters to only take two years. took a little less than two years, but I got my master's degree in social work so that I could apply that knowledge to what we were doing here because I knew without a master's degree they couldn't look at me to be the leader. Um, and so that was that, you know, I was like, now college has a purpose. You know, before it was like, oh, I sort of need to do this. I need to check the box. I don't really know what I need to do. I figured out what I needed to do and I matched the education to what I wanted to do. So, this commercial that you seen as a young kid truly was just the change in life.

[7:22]  Was there a moment when you realized this wasn't just a side gig, but truly a call-in? Like, when did that hit? Gosh, that's a great question. It was very early on. I remember sitting with my old boss and thinking, "This organization is unknown and it is a crown jewel." and the things that this organization does that no one knows about um make a real difference in people's lives. Hotlines have a a history of being cloistered and and you know we used to have a private location like a secret door knock. I mean it was silly. Um you know anybody old enough to remember get get smart it was really get smart. Um, and I remember the first time we actually moved into

[8:11]  space and advertised we were there, some of the longtime volunteers freaked out. They can't know where we are. And I'm like, why? You know, we've got great security. Nobody's coming up here. Um, and you know, it went from being a secret organization that did good work to an organization that people started to recognize doing really good work. Um, and that's really the hallmark of it because there are lots of degrees you can get. There are lots of things you can do. But the basic ability to talk to another human being, you know, not everyone has it.

[8:49]  You know, you have to figure out how to put your junk aside and you have to figure out how to be in the moment with that other person. But that critical skill build, you know, everything we do builds on that critical skill. I was actually going to ask you so 30 years later did the mission actually evolve or did you evolve to match the mission? It's actually evolved when we first when I first started we simply were a call center. We simply answered phone calls. uh in gosh 2005 2006 I 10 years in um there was an emergency shelter that wasn't being run terribly well and wasn't taking very good care of of the guests and um was in ways when I look back on it sort of inhumane

[9:37]  um and the organization that was uh was administering it really couldn't handle it and I'm you know, let's take a shot. We had not done anything in person at that point. And I went to the board and I said, you know, this is a way to meet people in crisis and really work with folk, but it's out of the mission. And so we looked at the mission, we updated the mission so that we could do in-person work and we took on our first shelter. And that shelter in those days was uh mobile, so it moved week to week.

[10:12]  it um was only open from Thanksgiving until mid-March. Um there were they were CS in church multi-purpose rooms. Today it's year round. It's in a building of its own. Um where people have privacy in their own bathrooms and all that sort of stuff. Uh and that's I mean that's really I mean that's really social work 101. Meeting people where they are. you know, we the phones, you're meeting them in a way where they're sharing what's going on. When you're meeting them in person, um it's harder to sort of hide some of that stuff. You can hide stuff on the phone. Um when you're in person, it's a lot harder, you know, and I'm not I'm not saying for a second that people hide

[11:00]  things, but we all when we're communicating with other folk, we put our best foot forward, you know, and we don't always open up to all the stuff. And you know to to make progress we got to we got to look at all the stuff you know. So Tim you mentioned a little earlier decades ago um really coming out and and now being I can only imagine a huge pivotal piece of the LGBT plus community. Um has that really shaped how you lead, how you serve, and how you create these safe spaces? Because I I can only imagine for you it wasn't always safe, right? Today is probably more safer than whatever you know always was. But what is your thoughts on that?

[11:39]  Yeah, you know, coming up, it wasn't safe to talk about. Um, it wasn't something that you shared because you weren't willing to take on sort of all the all the um stuff that went along with it. Um, I was 25 when I came out, so it was it was a little late uh as opposed to a lot of folk. But um I I think coming out taught me that one of the things that most of us do in our world is we attract the kind of people we'd like to be. And so the people in my life were so supportive that I was like, you know, is this the way it is for everybody or is this the way it should

[12:27]  be? um and understanding how truly lucky I was that I my process was so you know so I wouldn't say simple but it didn't have a lot of cost. So, I'll never forget when I was telling my sister, she's like, "Yeah, okay." And I had this whole speech, I'm ready for you to yell and scream. And you're like, "Yeah, okay." And um but as a leader, I think what it does is, you know, one of the challenges in the world being a white male is that you have privilege you don't understand. you have um being a gay man, you you don't have the same kind of privilege and there are things that you don't have. You know, I've been involved with the same person

[13:16]  for God, we're in year 36. We've only been married for four because it's only been legal for 10. And so, there was a privilege to being straight because of all the things you could have and do that you didn't have being gay. But being a white male, there are things that are just they happen for me just because of the color of my skin and my gender. And I think my my connection with with my own gayness and and all of that is opening my eyes to my own privilege, but opening my eyes to the privilege that other people either have or don't have. And I think as a leader, you have to look at your own privilege and your own bias and work very diligently to pull it out so

[14:05]  that you can be as equitable, which I know is not a term we're supposed to use anymore, and as fair as you humanly can be, you know, because leadership is all about doing the right thing for the most people, you know, and making sure that that the playing field is fair. Um, you know, I take great pride. We have a very diverse organization. Lots of women, lots of people of color, lots of people of different genders, lots of people of different, you know, orientations and things. And it's part of who they are.

[14:38]  It doesn't it isn't who they are. And it it adds to our ability to connect with the public as a whole because the public comes from their own space. And so we've got to be in a place, you know, as a service provider where we can be open to what folk bring, but we have to understand our own privilege and our own bias when we're doing things. And my chief operating officer is is a national expert in in uh equality and in diversity. And one of the things I love about her is I'll say something like um not that long ago I used the term grandfathered in and she after the thing she's like so that's a racist term and I was like I had no idea. And so she gave me

[15:28]  this great background in education and I was like thank you and now I catch myself when I say it. I'm like, "Oh, hold it. That's not an appropriate term. It's got bad history and this is, you know, and we fix it." And we wouldn't be able to have those conversations if we didn't have an open dialogue about our differences. Um, and I treasure when people bring those things to me and they say, you know, to be, you know, one of the one of the things we're working on right now are language barriers because service delivery in a language other than English is just different. You know, how people communicate is critical and if you don't speak their language, you're missing. So, you know, as you can tell, I could talk about this

[16:15]  all day. You know what I love? I think it's critically important for leaders to be open to the idea that the people that they lead and that work with them are different and bring a different perspective and that's a good thing. Hey, real quick, have you enjoying the podcast? We first want to say thank you and we also just want to give you a little insight of what we're up to at Francis. Some don't even realize that we're working with organizations to help them use AI to create that real human communication experiences where that's actually supporting your your families, those patients or the entire community.

[16:51]  We're actually creating tech that connects. Check it out. Francis.ai. What I was going to mention as well, Tim, is is what I'm getting from all of this as well is that you're one to always practice what you preach, right? And that's what makes a really good leader. A leader is going to sit here and everything they tell you to do, it's either they've done it, they're doing it, right? And and that's you, Tim. It's like, hey, I' I've been in this world. I I understand what it was to be on the outside, you know, and then finally uh come out and what that actually looked like, you know, I understood what it was to be looked at differently, you know, go through my dark times in my life. Um, so what you're saying to people is listen, I'm And that's one of the things I had to learn being a father actually. I think that's the first time I had to realize that because as a young kid I had uh all these, you know, feelings that I never

[17:40]  expressed especially to my mom and it wasn't until became a dad where I I had the courage to even let her know how I felt. And it was because I'm a dad now, right? So if if I'm telling my my daughter to kind of share her emotions, you know, to be vocal, to use her voice, then I need to make sure that I'm doing the same exact thing. And that's what you did. You learned everything very early on. So now you're implementing these 30 years later, right? is still in the organization. What what's even more cool showing leadership going staying on that leadership skill is that during co people were trying to survive. You tripled in size. How the hell did that happen?

[18:15]  So the crisis were I mean everybody on the planet including the people that work for me were in crisis and so the opportunities for crisis related services just grew. Um, I'm a little bit of a control freak and I wanted all my folks that were working on the phones in the office. I never would have gone remote. We had to um, you know, in Maryland there was a period of time in April of 2020 and May of 2020, if you weren't a um, emer if you weren't a first responder, you were not supposed to be on the roads. You know, now we got special dispensations so that our folks could be, but you know, it was a dangerous time. We didn't know what to

[19:02]  expect. And so, in the matter of about a week, my team had to move from an in-person operation to a remote operation. And I I would tell you the smartest thing I did was get out of the way. The smartest thing I did was say, "What do you need? What can I do for you? How can I help?" and then get out of the way. Um because the last thing they needed is a micromanager. You know, what they needed is to be able to provide service to people remotely and to do it in the easiest way possible while, you know, we can supervise folks, while we would, you know, we can make sure that folks are doing what they're supposed to do and all that sort of thing. But one of the other things we did at the beginning of COVID was we had

[19:51]  just been working with another organization that we ultimately acquired. They had made the news. It was a it's a a shelter for uh survivors of intimate partner violence. 42 beds in a big old building and they were on the news. Trash in the halls. It was horrible. And so one of the things we did is, you know, I called my old boss, my old executive director, and I said, "Hey, can you be a consultant? They're in trouble." And so she came in and I said, "You know, it feels to me like they need administration." They had really good folk, you know, many of the folk that worked for that organization that are still with me today, six years later. So one of the things we did was we acquired that organization and that at that time

[20:38]  doubled us in size and so we went from having one shelter to two shelters. We added another hotline. We added a whole group of people and at that time we added a facility because you know the facility came with it and good grief that thing. The front part of it is a 110y old Lutheran school building with wiring and plumbing and all of that that's 110 years old. 20 years ago they put an addition on. They didn't marry the two which is insane. They spent all this money. So one of the things we did pre or right as co was hitting was we looked at other critical services and we got in collaboration with them that organization. We actually acquired all its assets, all its programs, turned it

[21:26]  around in about 6 months time because I cannot imagine being somebody surviving intimate partner violence, reaching out for help and getting to a shelter that has mice and trash and bad staff. You know what you need is somebody who can look at you and go, "I can't fix it, but I you're going to be safe here. You've got a bed to sleep in.

[21:50]  there is food to eat, you know, and a couch you can lay on. Um, you know, I can't imagine leaving a situation to go into something worse, you know, and so, you know, right away it was like, how do we make this better, you know, and knock wood, I think it's much better today. So, that's that's really what we did. We took advantage of opportunity and we looked at things from a missiondriven perspective and we were like, does this fit mission? Could we do this well? and how do we do it? And we moved it forward. Part of the growth was the mobile shelter went year round, went into a building and it went from 50 people to 200 people. Um, in the in during the COVID crisis, one wing of the building that we were in was people that

[22:38]  were homeless with COVID. So, we had nurses and we had special cleaning crews and we had meal delivery and we had all of this stuff so that um if you were unfortunate enough to have COVID and be homeless, you had a place to go. So, and again, man, no Tim, keep talking. You know, yesterday I had a conversation with my my neighbor and I was just telling him how honored and how cool it is to have these conversation with leaders. Um because I'm pretty sure Tim, at some point in your life, you met a leader that called themselves a leader um but really wasn't leading. You know what I mean? And and and I and I it's when you come across leaders that are actually leading, you're like, man, there are great people out there, you know? So what we do here on the Heart of Podcast and I'm sitting here listening

[23:26]  to you and you say, "Hey, I had to get out the way." Right? That's a leadership move. There's there's people that are better than me that can do this job. and understanding that because just because you're leader doesn't mean that you're the best person in the organization. No, it's just you know how to lead a team. There's way better people out there, you know, that could do certain things. You just talked about the uh the young lady that is it's you're just learning from, but she's not the leader, but that doesn't mean you can't learn from somebody that's under you. That's what the leader does. So, I'm like I'm like, man, you just really just knocking out the park. I would actually ask you during this time very very the world is going crazy you know we don't know what's next um what was the biggest we're going to figure this out together moment with your team during that stretch like there's so many different things happening you're acquiring things you're you can't work from the you know

[24:12]  center what was that biggest moment what a good question I mean to think that we got to think five years ago time has really flown by right you know there wasn't one moment. There were multiple moments where the moment that sticks out uh my county council person that serves the the district that I live in. Um and I are are our friends were friends, still our friends. She's not in the county council anymore, but she called me when we were working on the shelter uh acquisition. And she's like, "Tim, I'm not your county council person right now. I'm your friend." and she said, "And I love you and your organization is so amazingly respected and needed in the county. Are you sure?

[25:00]  Because that organization is a mess." And I was like, "Yeah, yeah, I am sure." Because at some point I just my whole point of view for everything we do is how does this benefit our caller, our chatter, our guest in the shelter or the person that we're doing video phone with? And you know, I just kept thinking about the people in that shelter and I was like, "Good God, I cannot imagine being a victim of intimate partner violence or violence of any kind." But even worse, you know, asking for services and then then them not being there. And I could remember over the years with that organization trying to get people in and not being able to get them served. um shelters that accept the

[25:50]  kind of funding they accept are supposed to take everyone. They would only take women. And I was like, what does a guy do? The the the societal pressure on a guy, you know, where where domestic violence is concerned is already significantly different from what a woman faces. Um it's far less problematic. But when they reach out for help and you say, "No, we don't take men." What do they do? I mean, we don't serve that many men. Probably four, five, six a year, but the ones that we do serve are every bit as in danger as the ladies that we serve. Um, and you know, the the moment with my county council person when she said, "Are you sure?" And I was like, "Yeah, I

[26:37]  absolutely am." You know, because it had to be done. Without some something like this, that service would have gone away. We live in a county of a million people. There are 42 beds for people that are victims of intimate partner violence. You can do the math. You know, it's not enough. But if we go to zero, then what do we do? Is long-term goal to uh create more of these safe spaces, more rooms. I I think the ultimate goal would be to address prevention of intimate partner violence and really get in on it on the beginning so that it doesn't happen. But absolutely, one of the things that that shelter brought us is we moved to a no turnaway policy with that shelter. And so we had

[27:30]  to go out and raise funds for hotel spaces. Um, so that if somebody was in danger, we didn't say no. Um, because I I can remember years ago when I'd be answering the shelter line and it was no 15 times for every yes we said. And I was like, we've got to get away from saying no. You know, we've got to get to a point where we've figured out what we're going to do to keep people safe.

[27:56]  The other side, the the homeless side for, you know, general homelessness, we work to say no. We can't always say no because there are simply not the spaces. But on the other side, we have a moral obligation. You know, it's not okay for somebody to be unsafe in a community that's as wealthy as this one. You know, um there is no reason somebody should have to be scared to go home. There just isn't. So, yeah, you know, there we are. Go back to that good leadership, Tim. Your leadership is on point, man. And and and you empower other folks to lead as well. Oh, it's not like you're just a leader. You want others to lead and you told me that by just kind of stepping away. Um, how do you know when to step in though and when to let go? Like it's it's funny that that you bring that up. I'm in we're

[28:42]  working on a whole continuum of crisis services in the county and for our last two meetings I've said, you know, uh, working by consensus and and in collaboration is always what you want to do. There are times when it's not working and somebody has to make a decision and you have to just move forward. And so those are the times um when you know you just have to say this is what we're going to do and we'll come back to it and we'll review it and see if it was the right move. But we're not coming to consensus. So whoever's in the leadership chair that's what you're paid for. That's your role. You have to figure out what the, you know, either easiest thing to do is, most sensible thing is to do, safest thing to do is,

[29:31]  you know, or the right thing to do. Hopefully, all of those are together. But there are times when collaboration and consensus don't work. And so you've got to look at all of the mitigating factors, the funding, the people you're serving, you know, what your expectations are, what your goals are, what your hoped outcomes are, and you've got to say, "We're going to go this way." And come hell or high water, we'll figure it out if it doesn't work. You know, I think many many years ago when these mobile shelters started, the mobile shelters were hypothermia or winter shelters that were created in the late 80s after the Reagan administration closed all the mental hospitals. And this idea was at least we get them out of the cold, but they were in a room on a cot. Yeah. And I don't know about you,

[30:20]  but when I was a young kid and you had to be in one of those those sleepover class things where there were 50 of you in a room, nobody sleeps and you don't it's it's not healthy. And I was like, we've got to get away from that. This is inhumane. Yes, they're out of the cold, but barely, you know, and it wasn't something that I would let my family do, you know, or somebody that I cared about. So, you know, I was like, we can't do this anymore. and we've got to figure it out. Um, and so sometimes a leader just has to say consensus isn't working and I'm going to make the best choice based on all the data that I have. And then when you do that, you have to go back and look and go, did I make the right decision? What's the data telling me now? What have we learned

[31:07]  from it? And how do we sort of um rework it if we need to? You're a big risk taker. Yeah. like just listening to the the you know the beginning of the story here that we saying Tim you know there was really you're taking me down the story and the beginning you're a risk taker you know the crisis moment being just taking up phone calls that was a risk you know um when they gave you more hours and you said okay how do I I add this into my my schedule there was a risk you know um taking on the opportunity there was a risk takingaking on the hotel the the other organization has been a risk like you have truly been a a risk taker And I love it. And I can only imagine there was curiosity at times. And I would actually pivot this to AI. There's a lot of curiosity on AI. How is AI helping you with replacing the soul of the work?

[31:56]  Not so much the person because we can never replace the person, but we can give them tools to be better at what they do. How are you guys doing that? That is exactly what we're doing. We're using AI on the call center side, not as a call taker, but we're using AI that that listens to calls and gives suggestions for workers. And so we've developed a tip sheet and we've developed phrases and we've developed a whole playbook for the AI to recognize so that call takers can simply be having conversations. When somebody says, "I'm in need of a food pantry." It can, you know, it will bring up questions what, you know, questions they need to ask. It can make suggestions. I heard them say suicide, it's time to do an assessment.

[32:45]  Um, and so we're using AI in quality assurance and we're using it to help folk with what they do. There is a lot of talk, you know, in some circles about how AI could actually be on the front end. it can't be. Um, and one of the things I said this to an elected official recently who then used it on the floor of the Senate. I said, "AI is amazing, but what AI can't do is this."

[33:15]  Years ago, I walked into the phone room. We had calls in Q. I picked up the phone and I'm like, "Good afternoon, hotline. Can I help you?" And this young lady is like, "Oh my god, you're nice." AI can't be nice. AI is AI. I don't care how well you work it out. AI is AI. You know, they can't replace the human element and we shouldn't. You know, that human connection is sometimes all people need. You know, sometimes just understanding that somebody else sees things the way you do, AI can't do that, you know. But what AI can do is make us smarter and help us work smarter. um agree you know and help us to identify these are some of the things that might come up in in a call in a chat or in an experience that we need to do. Um, the great thing AI is doing

[34:05]  right now is it does call summaries and so folks can cut and paste the call summary so they don't have to be, you know, writing things down or typing things while they're talking, you know, so they don't have to go, oh, what did they say about this or what did they say about that? There's a summary and so that summary can be utilized to, you know, they can edit it to go, this is what we did and this is how we did it.

[34:27]  Okay. So, you guys are tapping into AI in a in a really big way. Is there any other ways that your team is looking to incorporate that whether it's for the internal external your websites? Our website is a mess um that needs to be incorporated into our website. Our website's been down for about a week and it might be back up. Yesterday it was supposed to be back up, but um we are we are certainly open to the use of AI.

[34:52]  We're really really thoughtful about it not replacing human um sort of interactions. It can help with scheduling. It can help with um you know resource management, that sort of thing. Um we man we helped to manage the statewide database in Maryland and it can help manage that database. It doesn't get away from the human interaction. You know, one of my favorite examples is when someone needs food stamps in Prince George's County, if they're homeless, they're they are um expedited. You can get them day of if you're homeless. But you have to say the word. Mhm. If we don't know that and we don't put that in the database, AI is not going to get that. You know, guys,

[35:39]  when you walk in, I know it's not an easy conversation, but you say, "I'm currently homeless." And your food stamps will land that day. If not, they're going to take 30 days and you're going to be hungry, you know? So utilizing it to make us better at what we do but not taking away the human element is sort of how we have forged forward.

[36:01]  We're about to wrap this up. This is going to be a good question before we get to the blind question. So I want to talk legacy. Are you building something you want to run forever? No. Or something others can carry forward. Um I I've been joking recently because I'll be 59 in June. Um that I have six years until the government will pay my healthcare. Um my husband and I are um working on our home and we're working on the things we want to do when we retire.

[36:30]  Um there will come a point when I'm ready to step away. Um I don't want to do anything else other than this. Um I have some side gigs that I do. I do a lot of training and I do a lot of um uh site visits and things like that that are related to what I do. Um, but the legacy here is that when I'm ready to step out, it gets handed off to somebody else similar to me, but not me. You know, um, whoever steps in needs to take this to its next steps. Colleague of mine just retired after 20 years. She founded a nonprofit that uh, she created and she's stepping aside um because it's time. and we had a long talk and as we were talking she said I don't want the

[37:20]  organization to go away. It's my legacy but it can't be about me and that's how this is. It can't be about me. It has to be about how we serve the people that need the services that we provide and how do we set it up so that moving forward it continues in a healthy efficient effective manner. So, you know, just hearing the passion. I don't know. I think you got another like 10 15 years in you, bro. Like, I I don't know that you're I don't know that it's going to be my husband that maybe. Who knows? Who knows, man. What would you say to someone? I I you know what I hear a lot of the times and I think it need to happen a lot more.

[38:01]  those people in the for-profit space um they have this this idea the nonprofit world doesn't make any money, right? That but I see so many people that make that shift and they love it. They realize there's purpose there. There's that, you know, I'm passionate about what I do. Um that I'm not just chasing a dollar, but I'm chasing impact, you know, and it feel I go to sleep much better because I don't go to sleep with the stress of, you know, this organized for-profit space or or the micromanagement, whatever that may look like. I actually go into forprofit or nonprofit where every day I get home, I'm like, "Man, I'm so happy that I do what I do, right?" Yeah, there's challenges on both ends, but what would you say to someone that's in corporate who feels the nudge toward the nonprofit, but is scared to actually take that leap? You know, one of the things that people often say about nonprofits is that it's all about

[38:48]  mission. And it is, but they're also businesses. nonprofit is just a classification that gets you out of stockholders and and profit ratios um and taxes. And so it runs just like a business. I owned a restaurant in my younger days. I managed a lot of food and beverage entities. The decisions are not different, you know, in terms of how do you how are you efficient? What do you do? How do you select the people?

[39:22]  They're all the same. Um, but the pressure on the nonprofit side is how do I manage to get things done to the best of our ability to meet the to meet the mission versus what do I do to make enough money so that my stockholders or that my owner is happy. Um, you know, we spent many lean years and I have spent many nights sweating payroll, you know.

[39:51]  Um, and you know, for years my staff, I would never tell my staff when I was sweating payroll. Um, and my chief operating officer when she came on board, she's like, "When you're going through that, you need to tell them." And I'm like, "No, that's my stress." And she's like, "It's everybody's stress." You know, and so we sort of moved into a way where we shared that a little bit um so that people understood a little bit more. But the the idea for folks in the for-profit sector is it's still a business. It's still you still have to balance your checkbook. You still have to make sure payroll gets made. The lights have to be on. But at the end of the day, you can say there were 42 people in my shelter last night that were safe from intimate partner

[40:39]  violence. My people were answering phones so that if anybody had thoughts of suicide, they had somebody to reach out to. you know those are things. Um one of the things that I always felt and one of the differences for people in this space is every day I leave here I know that my life is is fine. You know no matter what I'm going through um you know we all have stresses but we don't have stresses like other folks sometime have stresses. Agree. I have a a loving partner. I have a home to go to and I know there's food on the table. You know, not everybody has that. But who's cooking, Tim? What's that? Is it you?

[41:18]  Who's cooking? You or your husband? Uh, mostly. Who's a better cook? Mostly me. Okay. He does a little. Mostly me. My uh my grandmother when I was a kid owned a diner off Highway 70 in Missouri. Um, and we were cooking when I was six and seven years old, you know. So, bless her heart, she was the one who There was never a recipe. Pinch of this, pinch of that, dash of this, dash of that. That's it. That's that good food, too. My mom was the same way. Like people are like, "Do you have your mother's recipe?" I'm like, "I don't." Um, years ago when I would get home from weekl long trainings in the last few years of my mom's life, she was living with me. And I'd get home on Saturday like ready to hit a brick wall, ready to sleep for three days. And she'd always have her homemade meatloaf

[42:07]  ready for me. Oh. And that was my favorite meal. And my husband is funny. He's like, "Are you ready for meatloaf?" And I'm like, "It's been 5 years. I'm not ready. It won't be mom's. I may never be ready." But that's how food takes care of folk. And you know, when you leave, you leave the studio, I leave this office, I know that I can go home and there will be food on the table. So my life is not nearly as challenging as other folks.

[42:35]  And that's the thing. So, you know, Tim, we got to wrap this up here, man. I'm gonna give you a blind question. Are you ready for this blind question? Sure. Okay. The question. If we turn your whole journey into a movie, what's the title? What's the opening scene? And who's playing Tim? Oh my god. Let's see. Um, wow, that is such a good question.

[43:04]  Um, I I think the opening scene is probably the first night I'm on shift here. Um, and I walk in and I'm nervous as hell and uh the phone is ringing off the hook like it normally doesn't. And they told us that, you know, you can wait, you can pick up the phone whenever you're ready. And the supervisor on the shift looked at me and said, "Are you picking up the phone?"

[43:28]  Hence started my journey. Um, I'll never forget that call. It was a frequent caller who yelled at me for 10 minutes. Um, you know, I think that's the opening scene. Um, you know, the the the title of the movie is is follow your path because my path was sort of laid out in front of me and all I had to do is walk it. I really just had to walk it because that was what I needed to do. Oh my god, who's playing me? There are not a lot of 6'4 actors out there. Um, 6'4 is pretty tall, too. Yeah. Um, God, who's playing me? My my call center director would be remiss if I didn't say if I didn't give a Matt Bmer story because everything is always, you know,

[44:18]  relates back to Matt Bmer, who is just the prettiest man on the planet. Um, but shorter than me and a lot different looking. I have no idea who'd play me. Um, Albert Brooks maybe. Okay, I'll take it. You know, and I'm stealing that from a Matt Bulmer quote. So, hey, you brought it in. You intertwine both at this point, so they'll be happy.

[44:43]  So, for for the folks listening, man, what's the easiest first step to support your organization right now? Whether it's financial support, whether it's just a share support, like what are you looking for? What's the easiest way to to kind of get So, there there would be two ways. Um on Facebook we're at CCSI talks. That'll lead you to the Instagram which I don't know off the top of my head. Um or to our website ccsimd.org which will tell folks everything about our programs if they need help or if they want to give help.

[45:11]  Um we will very soon be unveiling a fundraiser for the fall. We are going to do a production of the Rocky Horror Picture Show and raise $100,000 for suicide prevention. And I'm already a third of the way to goal. So, and we have an announcement. Uh, is that the same one they play at Universal, right? Say it again. Yeah, that's the one they do at Universal. Have you been to Univers? Okay. Okay, cool. Yeah, that's really good. Okay, I love it, man. Hell yeah. That's different. Creative. I love I love it. It's different. It's also a little risky in this day and age because the show is pretty risque and the lead is is gender unspecific. So, you know, but Well, listen, we just mentioned you're a risk taker, so it doesn't surprise me that you're taking another risk right now, man. I love it. I love it. And they

[45:58]  all work out, right? They usually do. I will say they usually do. Not good. Well, thank you, Tim. Pleasure info, for your resources, for your time, for your leadership, for what you're doing in the community, for chasing your heart, for having that hustle. Um truly there's people that will watch this and and be inspired and and want to move a little differently because of you and what you've been able to share today. So we thank you so much for your time. If you guys are still watching, make sure that you guys do like, share, and subscribe.

[46:26]  This is Tim. Make sure that you guys check them out on the website. My name is Era Hard and Hustle Podcast. We'll catch you guys in the next one. Thanks.