How to Lead with Heart When the System Isn’t Built for You – with Dr. James Campbell

[0:00]  First of all, I always um found myself if I could leave organization better off than what I found. Um and I can honestly say that I've been able to accomplish that throughout my career. Um I wish my last my last role wish I had a little bit more time to do what I need to do. But um the other part is leaving, you know, the other part to leave the organization better off than you found it is developing people. uh making sure that you got good people in the right seats with the next person that come in to replace you. Um that I have invested in people and people um have have have grown because of my my presence.

[0:45]  Um so that and and the and the experience of the frontline staff, I think they they're the most most important people. I you know I try to be accessible to them. um try to to understand and learn who they are and their aspirations and then I try to share or connect them to someone or resources to help them on their journey on their I love working I love working young people. I love to try to pour into them man uh because some people poured into me man I just love pouring into them.

[1:36]  Welcome back to an episode here on the Harden and Hustle podcast. We got Mr. James from East Oakland to the executive seat. James Campbell chose purpose over paychecks and hasn't even looked back in the last 30 years. But it all really started with just a single question from a stranger at his past restaurant job. James, do you remember that question that maybe flipped your life upside down or or maybe the other way? Maybe right what right side up or something like that. Do you remember that question? It put me in balance with the universe. Um the question was why did you come out of your mother's womb? And um what a question. I thought was a very provocative question to ask someone. Um so that just um made me do some deep dive within and u questioning what I was doing because at the time you know I was

[2:23]  in the restaurant industry just you know I think I had my second child and I got tired of taking my kids to football practice and and basketball practice and things of that nature and dropping them off and going to work when watching all the other parents stand there to to watch their child, you know. I'm like what? I'm doing something wrong here. Um so you know during that process of um taking that deep dive within I just realized there got to be something more to this. And that's when I I realized that everything in the universe is connected. And then when I figured that out I'm like well what's the common denominator here? Well everything that's connected gives of itself for the benefit and sustainability of the whatever it's

[3:10]  connected to. Um, so that's when my my whole life changed, man. I kind of had a blackout moment uh when I was talking to my supervisor. It was out of body experience, man. I really was. And next thing I know, without thinking about it, I my hand had went in my pocket, grabbed the keys, I laid it on the table, and I walked out the door.

[3:34]  So yeah, listen, I I had a similar story, but I gave my two weeks at least, James, I gave out. You know what's funny is that two weeks, I don't know if this is really somewhere written down, but two weeks means nothing, right? Like at the end of the day, man, like they either going to they'll start to treat you like you about to leave in two weeks. So you did the best thing. I'm I'm just leaving. I don't need the the drama, the extra stuff. You know, one time I I I worked in the restaurant just like yourself for eight years. And I think I may have told you this offline, but it it was the CEO at that time. She was HR for 20ome years, man. And she finally got that, you know, CEO position, which I felt she never deserved it. But um I'm in this company eight years and I'm running all these different stores helping managers. The last store I had a million dollar store. So I remember that

[4:21]  um I just always stood my ground, you know. Uh and I worked we were different. We were at a science center. So we were the food court. And the people at the science center felt like I work for them. But I'm like, "Yo, I don't work for y'all." Like, so this lady would sit here and try to antagonize me. And and listen, I'm a young guy, but I'm from the streets. You're just not going to sit here and do that to me. So it came down where she said, "Either he go, y'all go." Right? And at that moment, I mean, they made the best decision for the business. He he got to go. And not so much let me go from the company, but hey, you got to go to this store. All right, what if I go to the next store?

[4:54]  And I realized like, you know what, man? I'm like five, six stores in eight years. Like, I want to do more. I want to be out of this box. And when I asked, she said to me, uh, James, she said, um, I waited 25 years for my opportunity. You have to wait for yours. And I'm thinking like, man, every time you guys called upon me, I never said no. I wasn't man I left with so much PTO cuz I never took off like I was just showing up you know and I remember one time just praying when she said that to me that like you said life happens man someone would say something in the most negative way sometimes or just to question yourself and when she said that to me I prayed to God man and that moment I see my supervisor it's like 7:30 in the morning supervisor walking to the door I'm like he never showed up this morning I don't know that's God sign right there he went and took a call by the time he took a call I had read my two weeks he

[5:42]  came back in I didn't have this plan, man. It was just that I asked for God that morning a question and God gave it to me. And I'm pretty sure, Dr. James, that it was also same some of the things you'll probably have in conversations. It were you asking God to give me that sign? Yeah, man. I mean, definitely gave me that sign. Um, and it just happened, man. I didn't have no worries after that because the next day I went to North Carolina State University, enrolled in school to get my masters um in education. Thought I was going to want to be a teacher. knocked that out and next thing I know I was in a classroom for a couple years. So, didn't miss a beat, man. And um things happen for a reason. And one thing I also learned that I'm not in control of anything. Yeah. And all I could do is control myself and uh master myself. Yeah. And then the universe

[6:31]  would take care of everything else. I got a question. What was some of the things you learned by taking the leap of faith? Like was it strength in yourself? Was it the kind like what what did you really learn about yourself? Well, just know what I said, man. I I learned that I'm the master of me. You know what I'm saying? If I could master my my desires, bad habits, uh my motivation, my planning, my discipline, uh and have a goal, have aspirational vision to achieve something and take this necessary steps to to to pursue that those goals, that vision.

[7:16]  Everything else, the universe could take care of everything else, man. I mean, I'm living witness to it, bro. Um, Dr. I feel like when people take this, right, the take they they want to take that leap or they take that leap, myself included, the mental, the mind had to be right. Right. What what would you feel was the thing that you really had to work on to get you through these moments? Cuz I can imagine it wasn't a smooth selling either. Life is a roller coaster. So, I can imagine there was some imposter syndrome right there and you think like, damn, did I do the right decision? Am I doing the right thing?

[7:47]  What what really did you have to work on to get through these moments and overcome? One thing just perseverance, man, and um and not allowing any barriers or naysayers prevent me from accomplishing what I wanted to accomplish for myself. U having a very supportive family is key. Um my wife and children very was very supportive at that time. But just um having that mindset that I'm gonna do this, you know what I'm saying? I knew what I wanted to accomplish. I had a vision for myself and there was nothing that was going to stop me from pursuing that mission. I had I had some trips on some falls along the way, but I just picked myself up, dust myself off, learn for a while, tripped. Oh, that was a

[8:35]  banana pill there. I know how to avoid the banana pill now. I recognize it, you know. Um, I learned that I also need to um network with people, start building um a different uh ecosystem around myself cuz all I had was the restaurant industry cuz I was doing that was my life 60 70 hours a week. I didn't know nothing else. I didn't have no friends, you know. Um so I had to change that.

[9:02]  So, I had to get out, meet people, and uh luckily I found me a couple people that was served as my mentors and and stayed in my ear and to motivate me during those those challenging times, man. Yeah. No, I love it, man. That's why I having these conversations with leaders like yourself, man. Whether the nonprofit, healthc care space, or entrepreneurs in general, man, sometimes when you're out there doing your own thing, it's hard. It's It truly is. So, I created this 30-day mindset journal because of that. Because sometime we forget that we're not a role. We're not the CEO. You Dr. James Campbell. You know what I mean? Like that's who you are. You're so much more than that person that was working at a restaurant.

[9:40]  And you've seen that within yourself. And that's why, you know, that journal after me going through it just like yourself. I was like, man, how do we change the mindset of others that are are struggling and can't see past their role, you know? So, I love that you kind of talking about it, but I do want to kind of go backwards a little bit. One of the biggest things that you mentioned and and I pride you for is I didn't want to keep dropping off my kids at practice and someone else had to pick them up. I wanted to be there. I wanted to be their cheerleaders and support them. How important was that to you, Dr. James? Oh man, you had no idea. I mean, that was life and death type deal there, man.

[10:14]  Um I at the time I was living in this town Kerry, North Carolina was u predominately probably 90 95% Caucasian and so um being in that environment and then I'm like I'm dropping my kids out to to this population and I didn't see no representation out there of our community. You know, there was no other black fathers out there coaching. So, um, after I left the restaurant business and rode to NC State, next thing I know, the following year, I became a coach out there, became one of the first African-American coaches. Let's go. And that that Pop One program. So, that man man the And I know we're gonna get there, but you know, you talk about my um being from East Oakland, I grew up with a single mom.

[11:02]  Um, Lashley kid. My wife my mom worked rotating shifts. One week she worked 7 to three. next week 3 to 11, next week 11:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. So, um there was a lot of time I was by myself or with my buddies and mom had no idea where I was at or what I was doing. Uh so, reflecting on my experiences growing up in a single parent household, um I didn't want my kids to have that.

[11:30]  My wife have had a similar experience um a single parent household. Uh so together we said, "Hey, we gonna do this differently than how we we experienced it." And so we was committed to uh being there for our kids. Uh for example, none of my kids went to daycare. And the the youngest one did, but guess what? My wife went there and got a job. Uh so my kids never was alone until they actually went to kindergarten, first grade. And then what happened was after my youngest son finished uh daycare and was ready to go to school, my wife went and got a job at the school and we were going to be present for my children. I wasn't going to just hand them over to nobody, man.

[12:16]  And it it had paid it's paid dividends. Um so yeah. Yeah, James, I I agree, man. My wife's a stay home mom and has been for four years. And I tell you what, when she asked me, uh, you know, like everyone, like you said, as a younger version of James, you had this idea of who you were going to be, right? And we got to be very mindful what we say out there because God is listening. But the good, you know, some of the things that show up in our lives, like, wait a minute, this is what I said when I was 10 years old. Like God was listening.

[12:43]  You It's It's not on your time, it's on his time, right? So I love that you talk about that. So when my wife said, "Hey, I want to be a stay at home mom." First of all, I was broke. So I'm like, "Wait a minute. I was an entrepreneur, man. I was out here, you know, taking really a li leap of faith. And um she said, "Man, I support you on your journeys cuz you know, I've opened a restaurant that time." And I said, "All right, I don't know how I'm going to do it, but God got us." That's all I said. God got this.

[13:04]  She's been a stay home mom now four years in counting, man. You know, and and I see the difference. People always praise, "Oh my god, your daughter's so smart. Your daughter this." But it's cuz mom's at home and she's not your typical just let the kids do whatever. She she's teaching them. she's pouring into them, you know, and and and they get to see dad like right now I'm ideally I'm at home, you know, in my studio, but I can just walk out and my kids see me there.

[13:28]  So, it is really important. And I I would ask you another question because a leader asked me this yesterday. He he provides scholarships and he realized a lot of these kids that are getting scholarships for um and it's scholarships that go to other schools like these private schools and he's like a lot of these kids is is single moms, single dads, grandma that that just didn't have both s you know mom and dad in the household. He says why is that in in the culture of the black community, the Spanish community? Why is dad typically not there? And to me, I said, I I just felt like we didn't have good men that was seeing past themselves, and they only could do the best with what they knew, you know? And I once I heard that in my life, my mom told me that.

[14:11]  And I was like, you know what? You're right. You did the best you could what you knew. However, I learned so much from my dad not even being present. So, I'm not mad at it, right? But why do you think, not so much now, I think the generations are kind of changing, but why do you think that our fathers weren't present?

[14:26]  Wow, that's a loaded question. Um, I'm going to I would say is the environment or society in itself. Mhm. The the the traps per se. I guess that's out there. You know, I remember back time where um you couldn't get a welfare check or something or you couldn't be married or you could you had to lie about being married or when person when you got because you get benefits they used to come by the house to make sure nobody else living there. So the those context those um those things kind of split families apart and then uh but main thing I think is um is opportunity.

[15:17]  Some some men had to leave to go and make do for them their families and and they had to probably leave like like now know being African-American in the space that I'm in. I had to be willing to, you know, to get out of North Carolina where I was living at because there was no opportunity for a person of color to to to send the hierarchy.

[15:40]  Um, so I had to move and I miss my family. I miss being around my people. So, I'm only assuming that there could be some situations like that in the past where uh a father had to step away or or it could be just that um they just didn't wasn't compatible. You know what I'm saying? The the woman and the the the man just wasn't compatible and they had to um move move apart. My dad, you know, he was he stayed in my life. He was in the Navy. Um, so, um, he was there when I most needed him though, when I was, uh, I was a knucklehead wild out in East Oakland and got in some serious trouble and I'm like, "Oh my god." So, next thing you know, my dad within 24 hours, so he was somewhere out in the ocean. He he walked up and uh, he

[16:29]  grabbed me by Check you real quick. Yeah. He grabbed me by the collar and got my world right. So, that's good, man. I I I also think, you know, one thing I mentioned to him, I said, I think it was a uh what I see, man, and it's so sad is that men, like you said, they're not compatible, but they can't let their egos go, right? So, you won't let dad see even though dad want to be dad, you know, and you talking about dad, even though dad's probably a great man, but because you know, so I I do see that and both sides. I'm not going to say and say that women do that to men, men do that to women as well, but I've seen that both ways. Both ways. Yeah.

[17:01]  So, it's it's a little bit of that as well. People can't let their egos go and realize it's not about them. Yeah. And you know that James because now you part of an organization and it's not about you. No it's not about right. What do you guys do at your organization? Uh we help um people children and adults um intellectual development disabilities. Um we we seek to provide the supports to help them thrive to enrich them to help them gain independence help them find employment to support them in navigating the u the system per se. how to get the resources they they need for themselves. Um so in particular we provide uh we have 11 group homes where we support um people with disabilities and group home settings and also we have three day

[17:48]  programs where day programs pretty much serve opportunity for people to have somewhere to go during the day and to have some interaction and relationships with people. If not, they'd be sitting at home um either in a group home or at their parents' home and not being engaged by others. Um so also within the day program, they work on skill development, you know, um whether that's um how to safely function within the kitchen, turn on the stove, cooking a meal or something like that. Um proper hygiene and how to interview and and things of that nature. So skill development within the day program. Um we support um adults on um on the spectrum which is very very interesting that the skill sets and the opportunities that that they could seize

[18:37]  uh through training and someone giving them opportunity is um is something that the community need to be aware of. Um along that we have a family support program which is very very complex. Um it's a program that work with um adolesccents and children. Um they might have some challenges in in their home. U so we got case managers that work with the family and help them um with identifying resources to help them to navigate and deal with the challenges that they deal with. Uh we got something called adult foster care um where we um um support people who live with another person just like foster care um but we just make sure that that person uh with

[19:24]  disabilities is being supported properly and that there's no no issues going on behind the door just to be there for us support. So um yeah we do a we just do a lot man you name it we pretty much do it. Hey real quick. Have you enjoying the podcast? We first want to say thank you and we also just want to give you a little insight of what we're up to at Francis. Some don't even realize that we're working with organizations to help them use AI to create that real human communication experiences where that's actually supporting your your families, those patients or the entire community.

[19:58]  We're actually creating tech that connects. Check it out. Francis.ai. I'm loving it, man. What's the restaurant? Cuz I I'm a big believer that every job you've ever had, right? Are you talking about the failures, the jobs? They all teach you lessons. What does the restaurant industry teach you that you still to this day cherish and implement into your organization? Um, I would say customer service, man, and how I transferred that, man, is um I just got through talking about this in a training is um providing people with the best experience. you know um you know employees they want to come to work in a place where they feel appreciated they feel valued they can have some fun um they they feel like they they're

[20:45]  knowledge you know what I'm saying as a human being so at the end of the day man it's that experience because in the restaurant business I was all about that's when I was a little young man I could be bouncing around the restaurant I used to like what you call the manager walks man I love chitchatting with people uh because I know I want people to come back. I want people to say, "Hey, I had a great time. James, how James working today?" You know, and try to set the standard for my my other employees. Hey, always smile. And um I had this one um supervisor's name, I never forget his name, Bob Blood. But he said he said, "You got to be the head cheerleader." And um he set the example because he came in on Fridays when our busiest days he came to work in a cheerleading outfit, got his drive through and he did his thing, man.

[21:32]  Cuz uh he wanted people having a positive experience. So to answer your question, man, the biggest thing that I could take away from the restaurant business is uh customer service, doing right by people, man. Make sure they they getting what they want and exceeding their expectations. You know, I want to make sure that food is hot and fresh um every time they they come by there. You know, I don't want them to come get nothing bad. So, same thing in the workplace. I want people to come in here and know they go get something hot and fresh every day. No, it it truly is the difference between a good leader and a bad leader, man. Especially in the restaurant industry, I used to pride myself cuz my turnover was real low. But just kind of you said, man, I was working the front line. I was working the back. Wherever you needed me, that's where I was at. if you want me to clean the bathrooms today because you I'm clean the bathrooms. It's all good. And

[22:19]  you mentioned having fun. Some of the best times of my life was working alongside with these people at a restaurant. And I'm young too, man. I was leading a I was already running a restaurant 19 years old. So imagine I'm super young. Got the homies working with me. But but one thing I always knew and my friends hated it. I understood business and I understood friendship. So I would write my friends up, right? Set them home and go home cuz we live with each other too. And they'll be so pissed at me, right? And I said, "Why you mad?"

[22:47]  It's like, "Bro, you don't act like you ain't write me up, bro. That's work. Like, I had to do what I had to do. Business is business. You appreciate later on." But yeah, you leadership, man. And just showing up and letting people know like, listen, I I don't care who you are, you got to put in as much work. I used to tell people, you have to have sense of urgency, have some initiative, like, and some common sense.

[23:06]  That's it. That's all I needed to do. I'll make sure I can give you the time off where you needed to. I'm going to make sure I help you. And cuz I didn't have kids. I was in a relationship, man. And I used to do night visits. So I was sitting in the parking lot just look right into the store and see what they doing. They hang out like I was making some good bread cuz I was talking about labor food cost. I'm watching every single moment of it. I was the guy that used we doing big ketchup packet things that you can mount on the wall. I man we get to the bottom of that used to cut that bad boy and scrape it and put in a jar and a little I said you getting every last drop of that ketchup cuz it was about bonus check man. But that's when doing that every day, chasing that money, man. They got But you know what, Dr. James? Huh?

[23:49]  Even with the paychecks, I still made sure that I took out my people. I would take them out of Chipotle. I'll come buy lunch for them one time because my store, I was in a the science center. We closed at 5:00. So, it was easy for me to take the whole team out. So, I'll take it, you know, 10 of us. I'll take the team out and whoever wanted to go, man. And we'll do, you know, what something at Funspot and I'll pay for it. Why? Because once they see that you care, you know, and you have a good leader. Someone recently asked me a friend. He says, "Hey, Ephra, I know you doing workshops, man, and you helping, you know, businesses.

[24:22]  Firehouse, you know, they're all franchise." He says, "We're kind of struggling in some of the stores. They're not making sales. What do you think can help?" I said, "Well, sometimes people put people in positions when they're not really good for that position." So, have you invested in them? Have you taught them how to be a leader? Great. Because man, like you said, if that leader is not good, the staff is gonna show it. The experience is going to show it. And that's why the store is not doing good money. I was running a store in the hood that was getting ready to close down, Dr. James.

[24:49]  But I understood that cuz I was from there. That store from closing down, man, was a number one in that in that district. Why? Cuz I understood the experience talking to people the way that they wanted to be, you know, spoken to. Hey, how you doing? You know, getting before they come in, you see them in the parking lot, their sandwich is done. Yeah. It's an experience, you know what I'm saying? That they have.

[25:07]  So, they're going to continue to come back. They can go anywhere to eat, but they know if I go there, it's going to be a couple of minutes. I'm gonna have a good time. I'm gonna leave with energy. Yeah. So, I love it, man, that you say you're bringing that into it. But in a world that feels disconnected more than ever, especially now with what's happening, politics, whatever that may look like. Why do you think community first organizations like yours matter more than ever? Wow, man. Um that's something I've I've really resonated with um I started thinking about during the COVID pandemic. the value of essential workers, man. You know, firefighters, nurses, the U DSPs that that work with people with disabilities, frontline people, man, the things they do, you know, while every during the pandemic, while

[25:56]  everybody was staying in their house, you had people out here that was working with people with disabilities out in the community. You had these nurses in the hospital every day taking care of people. Uh, so they need to be valued. They need to be appreciated because every one of us is going to need them at some point in time. And so, um, I forgot the question there, man.

[26:16]  But, all good. It was just how how when you talk about being overlooked in in the space that you're in, why does your organization actually um make that difference? It's all about taking care of people, man, and just being there uh for people in a time of need. because um I always tell people we're a bump away a bump on the head away from needing supports ourselves. People don't think about the work we do or what it takes um until they need it. Um and nonprofits are unique because um we we don't set the price. The price is set for us by the government, state, federal government. And um it's not to our benefit at all time. No, none of the time really. And it don't take in

[27:03]  consideration of the cost of living, the mortgages and uh leases for properties that we own and insuranceances going up, food costs going up and all these price increases. But the the the funding that's provided, the the cost of service is not aligned to um to help us to adapt to those increase in prices. Um, so it's important for the people in the community to understand that um, nonprofits are really doing the work that the government supposed to be doing. Facts. You know, that that's at the end of the day, any textbook would tell you that. Uh, but they trying to do it on the cheap by having the nonprofit stuff. And now when they talking about

[27:50]  Medicaid cuts, man, that's kind of disheartening, man. You talking about cutting somebody Medicaid, cut somebody's services, man. and they barely making ends meet now. Um, and then what impact it have on organizations. Some organizations might want or have already closed or will close if if our economy don't get get straightened out and which um I don't have no hope for right now. I wish I hope a miracle happen. But yeah, man, people in the community, you really need to be strong advocates u with people in our industry. people that they need to try to educate themselves about their different nonprofits and get become active to support them whether through fundraising or volunteering uh just uh providing some kind of service that they may have there's a I

[28:38]  always tell people let me know if you know somebody on a a grocery store if you know the VP of Walmart let me talk to them because uh guess what Walmart we uh we use a lot of washing powder in our residential facility. So, um we'll be glad for you to donate a pallet of Tide washer powder to us. You know what I'm saying? And we we we come I do all my grocery shopping with you. I mean, there's a bering that could go to go on there. You know what I'm saying? Um so, community need to find out and people that's in different roles, find out how they can support organizations that's in their communities, man. Because it's all about community, man. It's it's all about a village nonprofits. um that really struggle, they don't have a village, man, supporting them. Um not not only that, Dr. James, I I I

[29:28]  think we spoke about this um when we first spoke uh offline and it was that we just also you talked about representation earlier, right? There was nobody that looked like you on that field. There wasn't another father that looked like you or like your kids on that field. But now, are you truly in a space that you're a man of color in a leadership seat and a space that's often overlooked? I mean, so overlooked. I speak to hundreds of people. Whenever I see another man of color, as a man of color, I'm like, "Let's go. There's something there, right? There there's something there." What weight does that truly carry though on you? Like, and how do you how do you use that seat to open doors for others as well to to take on more spaces in the nonprofit? Because it's it's a very purpose- driven.

[30:13]  There's so much fun. It never feels like work. And I think we should have some more people in the space like that. It's a lot of weight, man. Um, I was just reading an article earlier where u less than 20% of executive leadership and nonprofits are people of color. Wow. Uh, so that that's and then it's like less than 25% are are board members.

[30:40]  Um, you know, there's a lot of unconscious bias and the hiring practices of a lot of nonprofits. Um, they they could be uncomfortable with what they don't know and therefore not giving a person a chance or opportunity even though they have the credentials and experience that u communicates that they they are a good candidate. So, and then when you get into the role, I hate to say you it's almost you ever heard of code switching.

[31:18]  Mhm. And you got to deal with that. You know what I'm saying? And then you then that's when you come like am I being true to myself. You know what I'm saying? Just, you know, cuz I have to watch the way I talk. Um because I know it might be offense to somebody here, but in my community is all good. But then if I don't code switch where I get around the fellas, then they, you know, they going to look at me a little bit side eye and say, "What's wrong with you, man?"

[31:47]  Oh, man. So, yeah, man. It is a challenge. Um, but it's a challenge that I've embraced. Um, I look at people as people. Mhm. Like I said, growing up in um in Cali and East Oakland, I was around surrounded by by people from all different ethnicities and races and race and uh one thing, you know, I'm a proud member of Raider Nation and um I have the most fun when I'm at especially when they was at playing in Oakland going to tailgates because you got people from all different walks of life, man. that most people be intimidated of, scared of, whatever the case may be. But I just end the day, I just learned people are

[32:33]  people. You got good white folks out there. You got good Chinese folks, Japanese folks out there. You got you just got good people. So yeah, I just deal deal with people on on the way they treat me and how I observe them treat others. That's how I, you know, judge people. If I see someone is um is not treating people properly or don't have strong values that I align with and I I either going to not just I remove myself from that environment. You know what I'm saying? I've had to leave an employer because um you know the value alignment. I work for a private non a private organization that does the work that we do. And uh the reason I went with it, I like as a retired army colonel who started this, I'm like,

[33:20]  well, we could do some things together. This opportunity, but it didn't work, man. The values didn't line up. So, I had to set peace. Uh so, I just judge people by who they are, man. I don't really But at least you see that, huh? At least you see that, Dr. James. people still in a place right now where they know they're not fitting in, where they know they're not, you know, valued and they stay because of fear, man. Like, what do you got to tell to those people?

[33:48]  Hey, man. Hey, you got you got to step out on faith, man. You know, you got to remove because I think about my health, man. The impact that could have on you physically when you're in a bad environment, uh when you when you burnt out, when you stressed out, uh none of that's good for your family. Um, and you just got to make that plan. You know, you might hang in there for a little bit, but while you're hanging in there, be working on a plan for your exit strategy. You know what I'm saying? Uh, and be willing to take a step back. Some people get stuck on that that they checks. Some people might be making a good salary and they don't want to they, you know, they don't lose that that standard living they might have. But uh I tell them people, man, I I don't want to say I came from nothing, but uh I didn't come from a lot, you know. I go

[34:38]  back eating um bologn sandwiches and drink some red Kool-Aid, you know, and ramen noodles. Yeah, ramen noodles. I ain't stressing like that, man. You know what I'm saying? Uh I'm g One thing I learned from um my background and history growing up in Oakland is perseverance. Everything's going to be okay. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Um I just remember I don't know what why this thought came up but I can never forget from the days where uh you know somebody's power might be out. You see these cords running from one house to another to to hook somebody up with some electricity or somebody sharing um cable stuff. So people go to make things happen man. You think about people that was I remember back in the day people struggling with their rent and go get evicted. Next thing you know, there's a house, what do they call them? Rent

[35:26]  parties. Yeah. You know, you have a house party and people pay to get in, to get the food, whatever. And after a Friday night, come Saturday morning, they got their money to pay the rent, man. So, things will work out. That's I just trust trust the universe, man. Things will work out. And and we can speak to today's day people. It's like, cut your Netflix. You know what I'm saying? You don't need all these streaming services. You don't need to get your nails done, your hair done. And that's what people don't realize, man.

[35:56]  Sometimes you got to make a sacrifice on the things that truly I mean, for me, man, there was times where I get a haircut every two weeks. I had to get a haircut every month cuz I just couldn't afford it every two weeks. Sometimes you really got to understand you, yes, it's a sacrifice, but on the other side of this, God is testing you. And and if you could just sit here and have faith, you mentioned it, faith, you'll see the light at the end of the tunnel. But you got to be working. You got to make the sacrifices. Yeah. So, I share a little story where I tell you I um moved to a town called Kerry, North Carolina. I couldn't afford to live there to save my life. You know, I didn't have the money to live there. But the only reason I moved there is that I was doing some research. That's when my kids getting ready to start going to school. And I learned um the school there, I want to say at the time, was ranked like top three in the nation for elementary schools. I like that's where my sons go

[36:44]  to school at. So, I had to go move. I lived in a trailer park, man, for a minute, dude. You know, I didn't have to live I didn't want to live there, but I couldn't afford nowhere else to live. But I sucked it up cuz I wanted my kids to go to a good school. And then that led to another opportunity where my um oldest son had opportunity to go to um Kerry Academy, which is a prestigious private school that cost like 12 $13,000 a year to go to. Uh John Goodnight U who's one of the richest men in in the world in North Carolina. he developed and it's like 10 students in the classroom. Everybody got their laptops back. This was what 30 years ago. People got laptops and the whole nine man and they didn't have regular teachers. They had industry profession if if if if you was in biology class, you had a real

[37:32]  biologist. You know what I'm saying? Uh so to have the opportunity for my you know to to to just make that sacrifice the doors that open up was uh was tremendous man you know so it goes back to it's not about us bros it ain't about us man about I love it it's about the next generation 100% I see it all the time and I look at my my now that I am a father it's like the crazy thing is I knew it wasn't about me I was already in the nonprofit space helping youth before I became a dad But it's because of my life and the the sexual abuse and adoption that I seen that there's people out there that look like me, uh, you know, that was going through things like me or even just things in general. And I wanted to be for them what I wish I had, right? And that's why I got into the space cuz I realized it's not about me. How can I

[38:19]  help another kid that is dealing with this at home, let them know that, yo, your story doesn't end here. At some point, you pick up that pencil, you start to actually write your own story. What does that look like? You mentioned surrounding yourself with good people. Sometimes it's taking yourself out of the environment, you know, and it's hard because if you never seen anything past your backyard, you mentioned you had to make moves like that was moving somewhere completely different. Not everyone has that opportunity or experience something like that. So, I wanted to be that for someone. And at that moment, man, I'm, you know, like I said, young. I realized I just wanted to give back, man. To me, being adopted, that was my second chance in life.

[38:53]  Whether it was good or not, I see some of my brothers that are adopted by other people and where they're at today, and it's like, you know what? I can't be mad about it. You know, I can only sit here and move forward and and make a difference by never repeating the cycle. And that's Dr. Dr. Z, you not repeating no cycles. Sacrifice you made for your kids. That's Listen, I ain't trying to brag, but my oldest son graduated from Harvard. Both my boys Davidson College.

[39:18]  My daughter graduated from Methodist. Uh, so yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You better brag about it, man. You brag about that one. Yeah. No, I love it. I love it, man. Um when you think about you talked about technology years ago um laptops were things like man they had laptops now we're talking about AI right like forget a laptop man we're talking about AI and I think you spoke on a little bit that you guys were implementing it have you seen a game changer using AI and what are your your thoughts on moving forward with AI well we haven't per se implemented it like I want to where it's um embedded within our operations but um we're using I just started using it matter Matter of fact, probably a month ago is the first time I used it. Not too long after I talked to you. Um, and I was struggling to do for

[40:06]  grant and I'm trying to write off top my head and man say why don't you hit this thing right here and they show me like put this in there and it give you everything you need. And I say what I like man and I felt like I was cheating. You know what I'm saying? A lot of you say that. Yeah. It felt like you was cheat because but it made it easy man.

[40:28]  So I probably um in the last 60 days I've been a knock out what four grants you know what I'm saying got one out of four you know cuz you know yeah it's tough writing grants with all the the high rate of denial man but um been able to use AI to to help me with the grant applications you know it's been the time you saved though yeah the time was huge and then um went to one of my um programs our career service director. Um this was I went to her um staff meeting and she was teaching her staff how to use AI to help them with their documentation that we got to write. And you know the documentation is critical because that's how we get paid.

[41:13]  No documentation, no paycheck, you know. So I I was glad to see she's making sure that they um was teaching that to them. So um yeah, the AI man is um something I'm steady learning. I used it a little bit this morning, man. I wanted to grow. I know you talking about the the how to talk. Anyway, I ain't got to that point yet. That kind of spooky what you was talking about.

[41:35]  My wife My wife's like that the other day she asked it was like late at night and she was just on chat to BT cuz even I told you she's a stay at home mom. She she finds curriculums on there, you know, things that she could use for the kids. Like how cool is that, you know? Cool. Um but she was just asking like, "What do you know about me?" And it just started to tell her what it knew about her. So, oh no, I'm done with this. She just turned off the phone and she was done. But that is a thing. It's the fear. But man, I'm talking to this.

[41:58]  Matter of fact, yesterday my wife told me, she's like, "Man, I almost feel like you're idolizing this thing." I'm like, "No, it's an assistant." Like, it truly will help you if you talk to it in a like say that you just in a bad mood. It it will try to uplift you. And because I talk to it so much and I've like I've been using this well over a year and a half, right? Because I talked to it so much, it even knows my verbiage. It would talk to me. It would say, "Br." It was it would it would laugh like it would just say these things. I was like, "This is crazy." That's all right. So, no, it is a whole different thing. But to see where it got me, right? Like there was a time that I didn't have any clients and I'm just trying to figure it out and what should I be doing and it gave me everything. I mean, I could have used Google and researched it, but it saved me so much time to just put, you know, and and the prompting. People think that they're going to lose jobs because of AI, but I think you people

[42:44]  are going to lose jobs against the people that know AI, right? Because someone still has to put the data in. someone still has to prompt it to do what it needs to do. It's not doing it on its own. So that's why I think people, yeah, there's fear, but it's a tool in your toolbox. And when people start to see that and the difference it can make in the times, and we'll talk a little later after I think there's something that that could be, you know, beneficial for you this at this point.

[43:07]  But yeah, AI, man, I love AI, but we we'll talk about that another time, man, because I could definitely get into the AI. I want to talk about leadership and legacy. As we're finishing up here, man, you said before that leadership, it ain't about this titles, right? It's it's about the service. So when you actually look in the mirror today, how do you how do you define success?

[43:28]  Well, in a couple ways. First of all, I always um define my success if I can leave organization better off than what I found it. Um and I can honestly say that I've been able to accomplish that throughout my career. Um I wish my last my last role wish I had a little bit more time to do what I need to do. But um the other part is leaving you know the other part to leaving the organization better off than you found it is developing people uh making sure that you got good people in the right seats with the next person that come in to replace you. Um that I have invested in people and people um have have have grown because of my my presence.

[44:14]  Um so that and and the experience of the front lines frontline staff I think they they're the most most important people you know I try to be accessible to them um try to to understand and learn who they are and their aspirations and then I try to share or connect them to someone or resources to help them on their journey on their I love working I love working with young people. I love to try to pour into them, man. Uh because some people poured into me, man.

[44:47]  I just love pouring into them. I had this young lady that was in our orientation class and every orientation um the last day they have lunch with me and so I get to, you know, know shoot this shoot the drive with them and just talking to a young lady. She talking about she ready, she want to go get her masters, she looking at programs and you know, yada yada yada. And so I had just met with this uh VP at this college, William Wayne William James College here in Massachusetts. And uh I said, "Wow, they got a program you're just talking about." So I connected him too. You know what I'm saying? I don't know if that's going to go anywhere, but it made me feel good that I had a resource to share with her. And I wouldn't I wouldn't have shared that resource if I didn't have that conversation with her. You know what I'm saying? So having some kind of

[45:34]  relationship with your staff and knowing who they are and try to meet them where they're at and try to let them know that I care about you more than just being an employee, you know, I want to see you grow, you know. Um, a matter of fact, that's the the name of the training I just did. I did. There's a book called Great Leaders Grow that I I recommend to u to any young person to read. Uh this is just a book that you know you can't just sit and be and be be content to become stagnant. You got to put yourself and challenge yourself if you want to grow. So this has been a good conversation. I actually had a question for you and then you even started to tap into us. I'm like oh yeah this is the question I definitely got to ask. And it was as leaders we we tend to pour pour pour pour. Who's pouring into you? My family man. I got a good family. Good

[46:22]  lord man. I got my dad. I just got good people around me, man. Uh my wife, man, I've been married for 38 years. That's my ace boom My ride and die, man. She with you for 38 years. You better not go nowhere. My kids, man. Um my kids are awesome. My grandkids, my in-laws are cool. Yeah, man. I'm good. I got good family, man. I got a good nucleus, man, that uh pour into me, man. And uh my my daughter man, she holds me accountable and uh she's a beast, man. U if she see me slipping or not conducting properly, she she she'll check me all over. She encourage me, motivate me. U my boys stay in my ear, you know. Uh we have some deep deep

[47:12]  conversations. um my my youngest son uh we share the same birthday and um so in February we went to Jamaica together, you know, was there just to chill and and shoot the breeze, you know, so uh got strong relationships with my family, man. If I had idea, bro, I love it. I see it. Listen, I didn't have that growing up, but I'm definitely trying to implement that in my life. I want I want my kids to say exactly what you say right now when they talk about daddy, you know?

[47:42]  Yeah. My family's pouring in me, man. And you know, and I pour in myself, too. You know, you know, my big thing I love I love reading, man. And I just I took a good break off. I probably ain't really got into reading over a year, but I just started reading. I'm reading um was it Jim Draaser um becoming supernatural book on neuroscience a little bit, talking about how our thoughts influence our behavior and thinking and all that stuff. So I love reading stuff like that, learning about people, how the brain and mind work, man. So do do you journal?

[48:16]  Used to and that's something I got to pick back up. So no, I haven't been actively doing that now. I like to say now right now I'm journaling in my head and I journal with me. We all do. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like I I listen to music um that's inspirational. I have messages in them like uh I don't know you know Darren Waller I just I used he used to play for the Raiders and uh play football tight end he's a beast on the football field but I just got turned on he's making music man and you gota listen to his music and then there's another guy named I want to say Dak you gota listen to music it's talking to talking to us talking to about our experiences and it's just telling you hang in there everything going to be all right man it's important man Listen, I'm I love reggae. I love

[49:05]  afro beats. So, I was listening to so much, especially when I took that leap of faith. And I was just telling somebody this. I said, "What kept me people?" Cuz he says, "Yo, Ephra, you moving different." Was it the money? I said, "Now, it was the mindset. It was me having to tell myself to never give up." I mean, my wife, I remember talking to my wife and and she looked at me when I was like, "Hey, I don't got no money.

[49:26]  What do you want me to do? Get a job? I ain't know where I was going to work." But she said, "You didn't come this far to quit. keep going. Right? So that but the music it it truly is you gotta change what you listening to because if you listen to all this rap and the th like come on man just a it ain't it ain't working for you. You know what I mean? So yeah truly do believe it. The only reason I said that man offline uh we'll talk but I I want to send you a 30-day mindset reset journal man and I've created it for people just like us the entrepreneurs the creatives because sometimes we get so caught up in our roles of who we are that CEO that owner but in reality man you James. I talk I said you James. So it's affirmations. It speaks to you. It's a talking about an experience. When I wrote this and I put this together, it was an experience and I don't even read. So it's funny that I created this journal, right? But when when you look at that, I'm a big affirmations. I'm a big ask questions.

[50:14]  When I went to therapy and she just started asking me questions and I'm just here like I have all the answers. You know this book, you have all the answers within you, but no one's asking you or you're not asking yourself these questions. I'm have to get it to you, man. I'm certified executive coach, man. And uh so I know the power of asking the right questions, man. Okay. So I'm passing it to you. I'll have to go send it to you after we get offline. Man, listen. If people want to support the mission, what's the best way to actually um do something that matters? I mean, and and also just share with us your social media platforms, your website, so people know where to actually find you.

[50:45]  Well, you can find Communityize um on Facebook. Um communities mask Massachusetts.org um is our website. Um and I'm sure we we're on Instagram as well. Um, and the way they can support us, man, if you're in the in our community, the I guess I say Middle Sex County, Wakefield, Beverly, uh, Malden, Medford area, um, you know, reach out to us, you know, uh, partner with us. We're getting ready to start, uh, bringing back our, um, gala event um, that's been um, Dormax since um, CO. And so I'm going to be reaching out and try to get people in the community to help us to start planning. we're starting the fall to plan for fall the 26 uh to start to gather it back. So, I just ask anybody,

[51:33]  man, you reach out to your local nonprofits and see what they need, see how you can help, volunteer uh community. We have a walk coming up in June. Uh I think it's June 21st. Uh we use some volunteers to come out to the park and uh you know, just have some fun with our organization. Man, it's not always about giving money. I'm not asking nobody for no money. Uh but it will help. But your your time and your investment, come see what we do. And once you see what what we do, you'll be willing to contribute some dollars. I love it, man. So, right to the blind question as we as we're running up on time here. Uh forget the past 30 years.

[52:10]  What difference are you making tomorrow? What difference are making tomorrow? The difference I'm making tomorrow is um inspiring people to to be leaders, inspiring the young generations to step up. Uh to spir the young generation to to lead us forward, man. Um and keep our value system intact, our human value systems intact. So that's the difference. That's how I try to move every day, man. try to plant a seed every day with somebody. That's it, man.

[52:48]  And what is your blind question to the next leader, James? My blind question would be um what does it mean to be human and how can that be leveraged to be a good leader? Come on now. Why you Why you going so deep right now, James? Why you We don't know. You might have to have another podcast because we could talk.

[53:09]  We get go deep now. I'm saying truly we're at we're way over our time first of all but I do feel that we could have really kind of go on man I had so many questions but I had to tone down the questions but this is so good and I I thank you so much Jane for for being a representation to people that that look like us right and this is me talking to you and some listeners may also say that same thing but I'm happy that you've took and taken a risk to go to a nonprofit where there's not a lot of people like yourself but and even though at times you You may have got the side eye. You may have got people walk away because the color of your skin, but you've never allowed that to be what stopped you, right? If anything, it's what motivated you to continue to move forward, man. So, I thank you so much for your time, James, for just never giving up, for being a good representation of what a dad looks like

[53:56]  as well, a family man looks like. I learned so much from you today, James, and I really hope that everyone's listening today took the same values that you the gem that you dropped here today. And uh if you guys enjoying these conversations, make sure that you guys do share. Make sure that you guys do like, comment, because it's not about monetary. It's about getting the word out and allowing others to know that people like them actually exist and resources exist in your own communities.

[54:20]  No doubt. Dr. James, it has been a pleasure. Thank you so much for being on the Heart and Hustle podcast. We'll catch you guys. All right. Thank you, Afron. Take care, man.