Why Growing Your Organization Without Sacrificing Quality Is a Strategic Balancing Act

[0:16]  Welcome back to another episode here on the Heart and Hunter Podcast. We have Mr. James. How you doing today, Mr. James? James Aiken? Is that correct? Hey, I got it right. I got it right. Wh where are we visiting you today virtually?

[0:22]  I'm great, I'm great, Ephraim, how are you? Yeah, you're saying it right. So I'm in northwest New Jersey, working from home today, but originally from Massachusetts area.

[0:37]  Yeah? I I don't know we talked about this. Wear a mask.

[0:40]  Yeah, so I grew up I grew up in Cambridge, for a lot of my life also at Newton. but I was actually born on the campus of a boarding school, in North Andover, Mass called the Brooks School, where my father was a headmaster. But yeah, we moved to Cambridge about halfway through my childhood and yeah, just an hour outside or not ten minutes outside of Harvard Square I could walk in, which was great. So

[1:06]  And then you made your to time from Mass to Jersey, been in Jersey since or

[1:10]  Yeah, so once I once I started my career, I I married a Jersey girl after college. I met her in college and so worked for a bit in New York, but ultimately ended up moving down to New Jersey about sixteen, seventeen years ago. and that's kinda where we started our family, so I've been here been here ever since.

[1:32]  Wow man, yeah, I was born in Lawrence, Mass. Didn't spend too much time. I moved out of there when I was seven years old. and now I'm in Orlando, you know, so haven't left. not that I love it here. So I do want to tr go elsewhere, but you know, my wife's here now and born and raised here. So James, are you staying in Jersey because a Jersey girl is staying, or would you like to also go elsewhere?

[1:50]  Yeah. We follow. Yeah. I never thought I would live in New Jersey, so but you know I've come to really love it and I yeah, I mean I fall I basically came here because of my wife, but it's been it's been a really pleasant surprise. I think a lot of people have, you know, these preconceived notions of New Jersey, so and it's definitely got a lot more than than I think people know. So yeah, I'm happy, at least for now. You know, while my kids are in school, they're in a great system, so you know we're we're happy.

[2:09]  That's it, got gotta stay still for a little bit. and you're leading not are you're not leading seeds, but what is your title with seeds?

[2:28]  Yeah, so my title is Vice President. admissions and placement is really the the the teams that I oversee. and and yeah, I g I kinda got into this this role after twenty years working in independent schools. So I I I went to to college. I I got a I got a master's in political sci in teaching and I had an undergrad in political science. and I knew I really wanted to work with kids pretty early and so Being the product of independent schools and seeing the value that those schools brought me, I knew I kind of wanted to be in those spaces moving forward. So put five years in at a school called Trinity Pauling in upstate New York, where you know, I was teaching, I was doing some admissions work, I was coaching. they really have you doing everything. And then so that was closer to New Jersey moving down here, and then 15 years at the Dwight Englewood School. which kinda moved us down here to New Jersey and I was a dean, I did admissions work, I coached, I taught, but I got to do a l a lot of things there and it and it was really, really, really great, for those times. But yeah, I'm in my first year now, kind of in this new role at C.

[3:45]  So tell us what Seeds offers. people think about seeds, what's some of the things that they are are looking to receive from u this organization.

[3:54]  Yeah, so SEEDS is a is a nonprofit and we offer programming for high achieving students from underserved communities. and we're really looking to kind of reach those kids that are you know maybe not quite getting everything they want out of out of their schooling experience and really wanting to kind of go to that next level, especially in college or or students that might be interested in in independent schools. so these are students that are underserved, they have to be from specific districts. and that we've kind of identified in the state based on socioeconomic factors are really kind of driven by the free and reduced lunch percentages. and we do a whole admissions process with them, and then ultimately when they come into our program, we have three different programs we run. We really give them the tools.

[4:39]  Yep, yep.

[4:50]  We really spend a lot of time with them on Saturdays, during the summers. we're really trying to kind of open those doors and kind of prepare them for that next step in their educational journey. whether it be, you know, independent private schools or competitive selective colleges as well.

[5:07]  Love it. And w how many people are you guys seeing like on a on a first you gotta tell us a dog 'cause we had the dog. So what kind of dog is it?

[5:17]  Well. She's a barker. I'm I'm really sorry. I was hoping she wouldn't bark. She she's a mutt. she's part German Shepherd, part probably Australian Shepherd. She's very protective. if she really if she really starts to bark, I might put her outside. but yeah, she's a big dog. She's great. but yeah, sorry. Did you ask did you ask another question? I'm sorry. Okay

[5:20]  No, you're good. Listen, that's life when we work at home. my god, big dog that means All good. No, we're talking about the dogs. Yeah, you were talking about the dogs. I my neighbor has two huge German shepherds and I tell you the first time that I walked into his yard and those German shepherds came running at me, I was scared for my life. But these two dogs, man, are the sweetest dogs.

[5:41]  Yeah. Yeah, she's the same. I mean, she is she can be terrifying if you don't know her, but she's you know, all heart and and very loving, really, really protective, takes her role seriously, so

[6:03]  that's a that's a good thing. That's a good thing. James, so how many people are you are you guys seeing on a schooly school base?

[6:09]  yeah. So so we have three programs. when we're kind of up and running, we have twenty-five kids that once we've kind of accepted them all in our into our program. We have twenty-five kids at the Young Scholars program, and that's fourth or fifth graders. and they they kind of actually start off with us in the summer. So we have a whole new crew starting off right now, and then they do Saturday programming with us throughout the school year, including some other events. And then ultimately we're prepping them for admissions into private.

[6:23]  Mm-hmm.

[6:37]  middle high school. Sometimes it's a K to eight school. Sometimes it's like a K to twelve school. Sometimes it's a six to twelve school, but you know, or five to twelve, they're entering in that kind of fifth, sixth grade. We also have a hundred, ninety to a hundred kids we generally serve in our scholars program, which is seventh graders they start and then they're eighth graders for that big year. And we're prepping them for that application and enrollment into a private high school, independent high school.

[6:52]  Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[7:08]  Boarding school a lot of the time. And then we also have a hundred that we're serving in our college scholars program. These are come to us in 11th grade and they spend a lot of their time with us in 12th grade, you know, applying to colleges. with the college scholars, we can sometimes have 200 because we start them off kind of in the winter of their junior year. meanwhile, we still have some seniors finishing up their program. So we have

[7:22]  Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[7:36]  both those hundreds going at once. So technically we could have three hundred and twenty five kind of going at one time.

[7:44]  Not bad, not bad. And and is that is that because you guys are just capped there or what is the the cap

[7:51]  Yeah, so I mean, a lot of it is capacity, fundraising, space. You know, we have to be really strategic and thoughtful about where we do our programming. So with our college scholars program, we really are looking to scale up and grow for lots of reasons. But we recently grew from fifty students to a hundred students. it's great. And we're really trying to serve more of the state. Ultimately, we're really actually trying to get out of the state into

[8:12]  That's good.

[8:18]  Pennsylvania will probably be the first additional state we move into. but right now we really have kind of opened up southern New Jersey a lot more. we were a little more focused in the central Jersey and a little bit in the north. but so we have a campus at TCNJ where we do programming with our kids for half of those college scholars, and then we also right now are partnered with Drew University in Madison, where we kind of work with those other kids. So space is really the big thing. We we have to hire staff, you know, as we we're looking to grow that college scholars program to a hundred fifty, eventually two hundred and and and so on. but securing those new spaces, making sure we can hire staff, making sure there's nothing sacrificed in that program and it's you know, kind of all those kids are getting that ex same experience. So we really want to be thoughtful about that. and we want the value and the you know the

[8:21]  Yeah.

[9:13]  one on ones we never want to kind of lose the value of that and kind of the relationships. So it's something we're really, really conscious about as we grow. we've seen also our our growth is mainly focused with college scholars. just in terms of capacity, there's there are more spots at a lot of universities that we could open up for our kids. But on the independent school boarding school side just the nature of the competition, the number of schools, we are kind of bumping up against kind of that top number where we want to be anyway. It it we would do our kids a disservice if we try to grow too much at that age level, but certainly at the college age level we have room to grow a lot further.

[9:40]  Yeah. And I know you said spending time with them on the on even p Saturdays. What does the time look like when being spent with some of these students?

[10:07]  Yeah, so I just came back from Bucknell University where our juniors are doing their college experience, which is one of the experiences they have. and this is their second experience. They started with in the winter they did Saturday classes, they did test prep. They did they started to do some work on essays. They spend full Saturdays from eight thirty to to three really. they're on campus. So it's a full day. and they're doing all sorts of kind of work. Some of it is supplemental academic work. And then some of it is kind of this placement process work like test prep essay writing, application support, financial aid support. this summer experience is really unique too because we we do have a a kind of a college two on one class, we call it, which is you know, exposure to to college life and also some of these application components that they have to tackle. But then we really dive a little bit deeper into college level academic work with them. and college level experiences and living on the campus in the dorm room. So that's kind of a really immersive three week program and then they come back to us. same with our scholars, they do a these are the seventh, eighth graders, they do a three week program at a boarding school. And then they come back to us in the fall and they continue those Saturday classes. there are also other kind of one off events, but they're really with us every Saturday throughout their eighth grade year, you know, throughout their twelfth grade year as as seniors.

[10:51]  Mm-hmm. Yeah. How how does somebody find out about you guys?

[11:35]  Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, we we really try to be as kind of broad reaching as we can in how we expose people to seeds. But I will say the number one most impactful way that we open people's minds up to what is seeds and what could it do for me is through presentations in schools. So we have to really build and cultivate and maintain those school relationships with the counselors, especially.

[11:35]  Yeah.

[12:03]  And kind of make sure that we we have a system where they can schedule presentations, but really kind of help them kind of see that these students' wins are are our wins too. It's kind of a joint shared experience. And so that's really our biggest. But certainly we we do info sessions. We we're trying to partner more with other community based organizations like the Boys and Girls Club, libraries, things like that. We do sessions in there sometimes. We have we certainly have a website, seedsaccess.org. So I encourage you to go there. but also social media, you know, we offer info sessions, we've done mailers, you know, so we it runs the gamut how we we kind of try to get our word out there. We really leverage also our really strong alumni unit and alumni family, alumni families, to kind of help us.

[12:03]  Yeah.

[13:00]  in their communities kind of spreading that word so it's kind of this ongoing cycle. so yeah, you know, any way we can. Podcasts like this is a great way too for some people. So yeah.

[13:14]  Yeah, yeah. Various communication levels, I love it. and when it comes to funding, is this just philanthropic work? Is this government funds? Like how can people actually get involved from a maybe a donation standpoint?

[13:28]  Yeah, that's a great question. So the the simplest way is really just to go to our website, but we seeds access dot org and and kind of c there's you can navigate there towards donating. we really rely on donations, right? So there are certain organizations that are funded at least partially by the government. And and to be honest at this point with the climate we're in, I'm I'm glad we are not one of those.

[13:28]  Mm-hmm.

[13:28]  so we are a little bit more in control, but but that said it is a really challenging environment. and f and fundraising is one of our biggest challenges right now, our biggest concerns. we also have there's other organizations out there that are funded by a foundation or a trust or you know, one generous donor. And so some of these organizations don't even have development departments. and that's that's a nice luxury. but we're kind of in the middle there, so we're we have to kind of raise that money to operate every year.

[13:28]  Yeah.

[14:25]  and we have a really fantastic development team. we have a really active board and alumni network, as I said. you know, we run various events over the years, like our gala we just had, where we raised about a million dollars, which was incredible. we also have a w yeah, we also have a golf outing in the summer and various smaller events. so it's kind of an active ongoing all throughout the year. and it is a real, real challenge right now. So they're doing

[14:41]  Let's go. That's good. Love it. how big was this gala? Like how many of it do you guys see at the gala?

[14:57]  God, now you're testing me, I hope. It's several hundred I wanna say. I mean it felt bigger than my wedding. It's probably in the in the two to three hundred people came to the gala. We had a bunch of alums. it was it was really, really special. Silent auction, you know, live auction, and all sorts of kind of testimonials and stories. we we honored a distinguished member of our family.

[14:57]  Yeah.

[15:26]  But yeah, it was a really, really great event. It's one it's our single biggest event every year, for f from the fundraising standpoint. but yeah, as I said th yeah.

[15:57]  Mm-hmm. The reason I asked James is because I'm in this nervous I lead an organization of my own. and for the last five years this organization was not raising any money. So now me taking over as a leader, we have to start making money. Right. So I'm I'm taking some of these events that were existing that were just, you know, kind of breaking even, but it's how do we revamp them? and we're doing like a legacy night where we're honoring like a it's kind of like a Hall of Fame event that they were having, but it's almost putting together also that gala type you know.

[16:28]  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[16:32]  part to it and my goal is to raise fifty thousand and I'm like, man, am I am I am I kidding myself here? Like is it possible? And you know, you just start doubting yourself and you tell me a million, I'm like, and we're trying to get two hundred and fifty to three hundred in the room. So I'm like, wait, maybe I should up my my what we're asking for that night 'cause if

[16:37]  Yeah. No Yeah, I mean so first of all, i that is that that alumni is that that for your alma mater is that that group that you're talking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's awesome. No, so if you get two two hundred plus, three hundred plus, yeah, I mean I don't think fifty plus is a is a inaccurate goal. I think you absolutely could be there. seeds has been around this is our thirty-fifth year. And so we one of the things that's great is we have a pretty established group of

[16:42]  Yeah yeah. Yep. Wow.

[16:47]  you know, benefactors and people that are committed to this work and connecting us with other people. So, you know, that that's a that's a big advantage in terms of an event like this. We kind of go into it expecting to do that's our goal. That's kind of we look at the past, that's kind of what we're expecting. I think when they had their first gala, you know, I don't know what that number was, but I'm sure it wasn't anywhere near that. So it's kind of building that building that up. I went to a gala though at the same place shortly after mine and

[16:49]  Yeah.

[17:15]  smaller organization, but it was a non profit housing organization. I think about ten people in the office, seven people maybe even. And they had about two hundred people there and they raised like and this is maybe their third gala ever, they raised like I think just short of fifty thousand, so yeah.

[17:35]  Wow. Yeah, yeah. No, this this this organization definitely has a lot of history. And I think it's possible. I think it's just everything you just mentioned is the relationship building, is getting the word out there, is communicating, is the data, giving that data, you know, James, it looks like you guys are really good at just curating data and making sure that people understand what the data looks like for those that are giving. how important is data in an organization like yours, James?

[18:00]  Yeah. my God, it's huge. and it's really actually a big part of the work I do. I'm doing a lot of data analysis. we're kind of, you know, trying to tap into what is the what are the numbers we really should be sharing with people. how can we tell our story and and kind of clarify our impact? so yeah, I mean we're looking at I'm deep in spreadsheet world all day long some days. And you know, recently, for example, I'm looking at You know, what is the average out-of-pocket cost that our college scholars are paying in their first year? How does that compare to previous years? What are the trends we're seeing? you know, things like that. I I think some national data I love comparing seeds to kind of national data as well to just kind of clarify that impact. So seeds, a lot of our kids are first gen on the college side. also on the independent school side, but not necessarily all of our kids. and

[18:00]  Yeah.

[18:58]  It but it is a big chunk of our community. And I think so one number that is really fascinating is and I've seen this in a few different organizations that have cited this, cuting including Pew, I think. but I think about twenty twenty-nine percent of first gen students go to college, where as seven you know, seventy to seventy-five percent of students who have a parent who went to college go to college. And then once they're there in six years, these are national numbers, right? In six years, twenty-six percent of first gen students are graduating within six years. That's when I heard that number the first time, I was shocked. And the num and the number for you know, students that aren't first gen, that have parents that went to college is is just short of sixty percent. Both those numbers actually struck me as low. But but seeds

[18:58]  Yeah.

[19:53]  And and there are other organizations doing this great work. We're we're in the upper eighties to ninety percent of our, you know, scholars that graduate and go on to college are are graduating in six years. So that ninety, that upper eighties compared to the twenty-six is really just a real simple way to kind of look at our impact.

[20:13]  Mm. Yeah. Man, good work. And and now you I think you mentioned a little earlier, you've only been doing this for a year. You you're in the you get in your feet wet. What are some of the things that you want to bring to his organization from a leadership perspective that you want to see come to life? Let's let's kind of speak into existence, James.

[20:31]  Yeah. Yeah. well, you know, I I think I'm really interested in kind of managing this current environment. so we're both kind of chat like on on one side we're really looking to grow and I talked to you a little bit about that at the scholar side. So to the extent that I can kind of build our program up to a point where we're comfortable doing that in terms of the admissions numbers we're taking in, I oversee that whole team and then I'm overseeing the placement team. So Once we feel like we're in a good place to kind of take that next step with growth, I wanna really kinda drive that that vision. But also I think there's an e i we really gotta be cognizant of the environment we're in and be very strategic about how we're we're managing that in terms of the impact we're seeing. For example, you know, we're really closely tracking colleges in financial struggle right now and there are a lot of them. we wanna be really careful about the schools we're sending our kids to. We're really tracking the changes in financial aid packages that we're starting to see our students get and and being strategic about how to counteract that. so so yeah, all all those things. I think kind of growing our program to another state, I think long term would be a huge step for the organization. and really kind of being thoughtful about doing that in a way where we do not sacrifice the quality. of our programming with our kids. yeah, so I mean those are some of the big things that I'm I'm really thinking about in the next in the next few years. I want Seeds to be kind of a nationally known program and I think in the Northeast we really are. We're one of the most respected. but I think you know with what we're offering we are we are one of if not the best and I and I kinda want people in the whole country to kind of be aware of that. We I have expanded I've really done a a lot to try to expand the schools we're working with on the West Coast, for example, just to kind of diversify the number of options our kids have. so we've we've kinda built out California, Colorado, Oregon a little bit more and both on the college side and on the independent boarding school side. so so yeah, those are some of the things that are kind of front of mind right now.

[20:31]  Yeah. Yeah, no, that's good, man. you can tell that you're just excited about it. And I and I'll and I think I said this to you last time. You are truly in a space that is not about the paycheck, it's about the passion and the purpose. And you're kind of in two of the zones that I always say the higher ed and the non profit. Very, very tough to be in. Why, James, when you don't have to be?

[20:32]  Yeah. Yeah. That's such a great question. I mean, and it's like I I think about why did I make the move jumping from school? So there's a lot of people kind of in this space that, you know, jump from kind of being on the admissions side in a school to being you know, a leader in a non profit like seats and then back. I mean, I know some people who have kind of made that jump three or four times. For me, like the why I was I was in my fifteenth year at Dwight Engine and I loved it. I started working with kids from Seeds and kids from other programs like Seeds. And I started seeing what amazing kids these were. And and to be honest, like they were generally, you know, outperforming and having an oversized impact on our community than some of our kids that were paying.

[20:33]  Wow.

[24:08]  you know, full sticker price. so I started doing a lot more work with those kids. I started in my last ten years especially really educating myself on, you know, financial aid, admissions, DEI, started to to kind of lead some things in DEI, recognized my own weaknesses, and just became so passionate interested in that that I started I got to a point where, you know, working at a school was great, but it wasn't really filling my cup, you know, to the same degree that it had. I knew kids was where I was gonna work my whole life, impacting and helping and supporting kids. but I reached a point where I was like, I wanna have a larger impact for this type of kid and to kind of open up some more doors. and so that's kind of what drew me to seeds. and I will say, you know, being here it is very fulfilling. And so I mean I think that like That speaks to what makes me sound excited. When I talk about it, that speaks to kind of my drive to spend, you know, hours and hours deep in a spreadsheet. but I really have to balance that that work with kind of meaningful relationship work, connecting with kids. and it's not the money. You're absolutely right. I mean I I I've kind of signed off on that from the moment I started working on schools is that my career was not gonna be one that made me a ton of money. But I think the fulfillment is so big for me right now. And I think it's probably even bigger because I'm in my first year here. But if I go a week or two where I'm just in office working on spreadsheets, meeting with the people on our team and we have great people on our team, I do start to get antsy though and I need that kind of relationship

[24:09]  Yeah.

[25:57]  kid moment, you know, so that's usually when I'll schedule a trip and I'll go see some kids at a school and we have kids at all different schools or I'll go see our kids at the Saturday programs to just kind of remind me 'cause you don't wanna be too removed from that. but yeah, it's it has been really meaningful, fulfilling work and I'm really happy. So

[26:19]  Yeah. Yeah man, those students become the Y reminders. It looks like. you recently just said that you just came back from what was it you just said you came back from?

[26:19]  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Bucknell University and I got to see these hundred college well they're about to be seniors kind of doing their second prong of our program and seeing them and their energy and their excitement, you know, yeah, it just it it gave me that why again and it's it's so powerful. So

[26:19]  There you go. So cool, man, and I appreciate sharing that story of those that you know, a lot of people don't realize, as you mentioned, that people go from higher ed to nonprofits back and forth. 'Cause they're very very similar, to be quite frank. It goes back to it's about people, it's about humanity as well. something important about that is that we were able to experience something in our lives and how can we continue to just pass those moments along, those experiences, so people could just

[26:20]  Yeah.

[27:11]  take that that same road and it become a little easier than what we probably experienced. And the experience in general, man, could be so scary. You've talked about the first gen. How scary is it if you're a first gen student doing this on your own and maybe your parents don't have any idea. But something like Seeds where they're really helping you through it is pretty cool.

[27:11]  Yes, but Yeah. Yeah, it's I mean it is you see that that apprehension that some of them have and I think they're in such a different place when they their confidence level is, you know, through the roof, we find, you know, in the spring of their senior year. So I mean we really see that impact. They they start to really understand that they belong in these spaces and that they can they can do this too. but I think, you know, to the fulfillment thing, just real quick, the The great thing about both working in schools and doing now what I'm doing at Seeds, and I encourage this for anyone, is if your work is removed from tangible, you know, you can tan like get a tangible sense of the impact of your work. If you don't if you don't have that, and I think 90% of the time that involves people, then that fulfillment is just gonna slowly it's just slowly drain, I think is what I found. So being able to just have that.

[27:11]  No.

[28:17]  right in front of me, that kid, that alum who comes back and speaks at our gala, you know, their live has been their trajectory has completely changed because of seeds. Like having that tangible impact has been really huge.

[28:30]  I love this James. James, thank you so much for this conversation, man, that we that we've been having. where can people, like if someone wants to get involved, and you we talked about donating on the website. How else can people get involved with Seeds?

[28:44]  Yeah, you know, we do we have lots of ways to kind of I think one of the things I would suggest is you know you can come visit us. We we're located in Newark, New Jersey. We'd be happy to show people around our office and and kind of expose them to some volunteer opportunities. We need the support of people at various events. and, you know, I think sometimes even if you want to come to an event and just kind of see what we're about, we have a lot of our events are listed in social media, they're listed on our website. one thing that really comes to mind is we interview students, you know, for our programs. We do a whole application process. They write essays, they have to get references, you know, transcripts, and one of the stages is an interview for all three of our programs. And that is a big, big lift because we have way more kids applying than than we can accept accept. And so we need lots of help with interviewers. We actually pair volunteers up with a seed staff member for our interviews.

[28:44]  Yeah.

[29:39]  And that's a great way to just like see the kids too though. So it's it's a really we anyone who really wants to be involved with that, we're happy to have you. And so you're not kind of alone doing the interviewing, you're with someone who's really there, but that's one real tangible way. but yeah, again, our website is seedsaccess.org. should I share my email? Would that be good too? Because so I I would say just cause if you're listening to this podcast and you know you've heard me and

[30:02]  Yeah. Yeah, man, share it. Share it, Jane.

[30:07]  I think an easy way to get in contact would be just to email me and then I can kinda point you in the right direction from there. so my email is J as in James and then my last name, Aitkin, which is A-I-T-K-E-N at seedsaccess.org. so just send me an email and I will point you in the right direction. But yeah, we're always looking for volunteers. I gotta give a shout out to my director of admission too, because you know, one of the things we say is no money, no mission really. Our mission is really broad and it's really powerful. but we are very dependent on the money we raise every year. so I I don't wanna kinda shortchange that as a as a really meaningful way and go into

[30:37]  Of it. Well James, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for the the work that you've done now two decades, right? Just continuing to fertilize the future at this point. Almost two decades. Is it almost two decades or am I right two decades?

[31:08]  Yeah, no, it's two decades, twenty twenty one years now, which is crazy.

[31:11]  I I want to aid you more, you know, and give you more years 'cause I hate when they do that to me. So no man, just thank you for for the work that you've done definitely in our communities and the work that you'll continue to do really in the community, especially at this organization, Seeds, where you're just getting started, man. You're just getting started. Guys, these are the same conversation that we have with all leaders like Mr. James. If you guys want to get involved, make sure you guys do. he gave you guys the email. You guys make sure you guys check out the website. Are you guys also on so social, James?

[31:28]  Ha ha ha. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, we're on you know, Instagram, I think we're on TikTok, we're on Facebook, even X I think, so yeah, check us out.

[31:46]  Love it. So guys, continue to subscribe, like, comment, make sure you guys join in in the next conversation. We'll see you next time. I'm Efrain. This is James. Latest.

[31:54]  Thank you.