How to Raise a Great Leader (From a University Dean)

[0:00]  in this brand new episode of the heart and hustle podcast I sit down with Nick Roberts the dean of students from Southern Virginia University now guys today's going to be an amazing episode because you're going to learn what it truly means to be a leader in the changing landscape of higher education what it means to meet perspective students and the future generations of leaders where they are with making gigantic decisions we're going to talk about mindset mental health what it means to overcome challenges in our lives and the true definition of grit today going to be an amazing episode let's stop wasting time let's get into it enjoy this conversation with Nick Roberts education should be the atmosphere where learning um across the board happens organically and specifically to the student and so those opportunities

[0:49]  should be able to happen for students all the time where they can sit in the classroom and they can say you know what this is a very interesting class maybe I would like to pursue this but if you don't have that overall opportunity sometimes students just don't know so like you said so it sounded like you pivoted four times right you're like yeah I did my parents hated me for it and I think that's normal for a lot of students but it's taken that chance to say Hey what if I try this and what I love about the higher education setting is if it allows for those opportunities to happen then students can really find what they want to do and be for 5 years down the road all right guys welcome back to a

[1:49]  brand new episode of the heart and hustle podcast I'm incredibly excited because I've got my good friend Nick Roberts here with me today now Nick you hold a unique position in society today you are a higher edly you are the dean of students at Southern Virginia University man thank you so much for coming on the show hey Keenan thanks for having me and happy to have a nice discussion with you today man this is gonna be a cool conversation because we're GNA talk about you know the current state of higher ed leaders and Leadership for the next generation of people who are coming into the space but also I want to learn a little bit more about your backstory you know coming from our generation I see similarities in our age and I know that you're the leader of a highered ins tion and you're really kind of playing the the shaman the guide the connector the enablement platform leader to put people in this

[2:38]  next Generation into the next phase of their life and that's absolutely amazing but how did we actually get here man let's dive a little bit more into your origin story because I know this is not how you exactly started off no and I appreciate that it it for Me Higher Education even work in education was not an option at all um even getting an education wasn't really much of a plan not not something as as a priority um but I actually started in Social Services wanted to be in a role that I could help individuals work with some people kind of make a difference in the community type of feel and enjoyed that work enjoyed being part of the community but felt that there's a lot of programs and things that are beneficial to

[3:27]  individuals but I wanted to do more and so I saw education as maybe that that area to where I could do more help out more so I went I went to school and just like everyone else you know I'm a first generation graduate that saw education as an opportunity for okay what could happen if I did this right so you know I like a lot of students I work with I was there one day like what is this gonna do for me what doors could this open up and slowly but surely transitioning from that social Service uh environment to education I saw roles that would be a good fit for me and what I'm good at and then to be able to help others and it just kind of snowballed into where we're at now with additional education and now

[4:17]  you know at that higher ed level where I'm helping students every day what are you good at Nick oh man uh well if you ask my kids I'm good at uh making sure they don't do what they're supposed to but honestly I love building rapport with students I love being able to be on their playing field and understand how can I help them accomplish their goals uh meet their needs um I really enjoy that day-to-day interaction and so for me building Rapport getting to know students you know I feel like I can be that uh that guy almost um coached for several years in different capacities and there's that

[5:05]  same coaching mentality of wanting to be able to support to get better to have that progress and so those are some strengths that I really see myself having and and using with with students I work with every day do you get a lot of pride in pouring into others around you absolutely absolutely I I think coming from Social Services you know it's kind of a thankless job where not a lot of people appreciate the work that you do um but it's so needed and it's so important um sometimes education can be like that we we've seen that you know recently with with a lot of turnover and the things with within education um teachers have such an important role in our society and yet sometimes I think we take for granted you know the roles that

[5:53]  they have and just the jobs that they do um but you know I I I appreciate the opportunity work with anyone and right now working with college students is something that I that I find a lot of fulfillment and joy because you kind of you get the sense of taking them from point A and you can see them kind of being lift off to that next Journey that they're going on and having a little part of that is always is always helpful for me in my work because you know it's working you know something's going well for him you know one of the things I think about is the reputation of higher education over the last let's call it 5 years has dramatically changed right when we were coming up through school I remember my parents hammering into me the only way you're going to be successful is by

[6:41]  going to higher education getting your education going into a field of your choice and then being able to stick it out long enough to build a career that is fulfilling but since the pandemic occurred we've seen a lot of noise and maybe misconceptions that are being spread about higher education what's kind of the sentiment from your perspective with incoming students in the over student body well especially coming from the pandemic a lot of people you know struggled going and moving on to higher ed or that next level of education and so excuse me maybe that transition that hey I could really do it it's it's an easy transition from high school to college you know there is a misconception that oh you'll just be able to get right in we know that a lot of students struggle in coming out of high school with just basic basic

[7:29]  reading levels you know and and being being able to be proficient at at say at 12th grade reading level and so we we have students that you know Nationwide that are struggling just just to read and then of course they're going to struggle at the college level um some misconceptions with school are always interesting you know that it's the end all be all that because I have a degree now I've made it in life and like you said you know a college degree had a lot of weight and it should have a lot of weight there's a lot of work and there's a a lot of emphasis that's putting into obtaining that degree but it doesn't mean that that's the only thing that you then accomplish and then that's it that you're guaranteed a job because of that or uh another one that I hear is um that whatever major you pick right out of

[8:16]  high school has to be the major that you stick with that whole time just in life education is about pivoting and trying to find that best balance for you a lot of 18 19 year olds don't know what they want to do they have an idea but still trying to figure it out so there's a there's some misconceptions that because you pick one path that you have to stick on it stay with it and that's not true we've got I would say an average of three to four different major students pick on at any given time and that's the ability for them to figure out all right this is who I want to be and I want to go in this direction now I want to talk about the the idea of curiosity here so when you were talking a little bit earli you talked about I didn't think that education was going to be a path for me in any way right but but you've ended up as the dean of students for a major university you're a representative and a

[9:04]  leader of your organization when it comes to you know students graduating from high school and the little pun that I like to use is 17 18y old kids graduates from high school we ask them to make the biggest choice of their life pick a career take on debt that maybe we weren't informed about but yet just one month ago we had to raise our hand to go to the bathroom interesting dichotomy in order for us to truly experience enough and pick a path that we want to go down we have to be really curious enough to be able to try different things M and so when I think about my process of higher education I started out as a exercise and sports science major I then pivoted into Communications I then pivoted into mechanical engineering and then pivoted back into Communications and sociology and that was the degree that I ended up with I had to try different things to be able to understand what I really wanted to do what role are you talking about when students come into a university how

[9:54]  are you inspiring them to be curious about trying different things when there's so much pressure on them to pick a path like we've been talking about yeah that is a great question education should be the atmosphere where learning um across the board happens organically and specifically to the student and so those opportunities should be able to happen for students all the time where they can sit in the classroom and they can say you know what this is a very interesting class maybe I would like to pursue this but if you don't have that overall opportunity sometimes students just don't know so like you said so it sounded like you pivoted four times right you're like yeah I did my parents hated me for it and I think that's normal for a lot of

[10:42]  students but it's taken that chance to say Hey what if I try this and what I love about the higher education setting is if it allows for those opportunities to happen then students can really find what they want to do and be four or five years down the road um I've met with a lot of students who thought they want to be in medical they want to be a doctor or they wanted to be a lawyer until they took a really difficult class in politics or medical class or they had to go to a clinic for the first time and they're like H you know what just kidding I don't want to do that but until they know until they have that opportunity for um those type of interactions and experiences then they don't know if

[11:29]  they're going to like that or not or if they want to pursue that so I hope that when we talk with students when we're able to meet with them or teach them that they look for those experiences those opportunities through different courses but then when they do pivot it's not something that they're penalized or then they have to start all over but they also they can transition still continue to take the class they need and then move on to where they want to go I want to talk about the idea of instant gratification culture that we kind of live in today because of social media and everything else we see in the headlines compared to the amount of work that's actually necessary to get things done in life you know when I started my business back in 2014 I had a really tough time with my

[12:16]  mental health because when I was looking on Instagram and social media everybody else who had started a business was a millionaire like two months later and I couldn't figure out why I wasn't successful and then I started realizing that a lot of the things we see out in the Echo chamber of in gratification are often not real and it takes a substantial amount of work to be able to accomplish anything in life how are you kind of helping students balance that necessary workload with what it takes to get things done compared to the instant gratification world that we kind of have been brought up in over the last couple years yeah that is a huge challenge because we have students who you know let's take the Athletics portion for example okay and a lot of big-time schools maybe their expectation is because I go to this school and I place sport all of a sudden I get these nil nil deals and I and I should be getting

[13:05]  you know some endorsements or some money or whatever that may look like because they saw it on social media and they see these big-time athletes or whatever they're do the same thing so in their mind just because they're doing something that someone else did now that they should be able to get those rewards that come with it and leveling off the expectations versus the realities of say higher education or just experience in general is really hard because a lot of students coming into school right now you know High School College they're basing a lot of things that they're seeing on social media and the success that people have they don't see the work that's being put into that in order for them to to be successful we didn't have that growing up to where we saw flashes of just um achievement and

[13:55]  like I made it and so we understood that there was a process or at least I I felt like I did like I knew like in order to be able to get to where I want to be I got to work for and it's going to take these steps so being able to to level the expectations for students especially in school is is something that it's it's a work in progress right I think a lot of teachers meet professors meet students where they are and then try to help them like hey you want to be an influencer uh but you have a hard time writing an email so let's start from ground one and let's get to where you need to go right but also at the same time it's well what is it that you want to accomplish once you get there like what are you trying to be you want to be an influencer great so do you have the common skills that even are required to

[14:42]  be an influencer do you know how to work AB andc anybody can turn on a camera and start doing those things but it's everything that goes with it that students just don't see yet that they all need to do to be successful so is curbing a little bit the enthusiasm that they have like you know I want to be a millionaire one day and that's the only goal I have okay well then how are you gonna get there because everybody wants to have money everybody wants to have those things to help them in their lives or families but what are you going to do to be able to establish that as this is what's going to happen moving forward and that's where sometimes we got to come in and help students my role it's also building the Rapport so that students know that hey I do have questions I want to be able to be supported in that I can help

[15:29]  mitigate and find ways for them to get the resources that they need but no question about it there are students who just think that hey because I'm here I I should be able to get this it's like well hold on a second if you can spell your full name we're on the right page let's move on from there and then we'll help you out it's it's really interesting as you were talking a couple minutes ago I was thinking about the expectation of higher education to meet students where they are in their education process I still have not truly been able to grasp the impact that the pandemic has had on the ability to learn obtain comprehend and be proficient at knowledge and education in general for these students so what type of things are you kind of seeing with this new generation of students who are coming through kind of the digital wave that they had to be adapted to when the

[16:16]  pandemic happened so there was there was some loss of learning that happened during that time and not having that face-to-face interaction I think put a lot of students in an area to where some of those those skills those those being able to communicate effectively skills being able to listen um and comprehend what's going on I think it was lost and so where are they going to gain that now if you finished high school in the last couple years and you go into the job Force I'm sure a lot of people will see that you know there's there there might be some of those skills lacking and so in higher ed now we take on that opportunity to then help them to be able to now say okay we lost some skills during that time now we need to help them out have the expectations of

[17:04]  students who are graduating are they different now it's an interesting question to think about if you have students who are coming out of high school and they're deficient at certain skills right let's say that they're a grade behind where they should be because of the pandemic what is the expectation of them graduating now do you know what I mean because when I I went to high school I graduated from an all guys Preparatory School we were incredibly strict right um academically and getting into colleges or some of the colleges like University of Michigan Michigan State were highly competitive and everybody was top-notch back in the day but it seems like there's a lower bar now so I'm wondering if higher education has to lower their expectation to meet these students where they are and there could have been and there may and there still may be for schools who who you know I know that sat Acts were a priority for a lot of schools that was a you know contingent depending on your

[17:50]  school if we're going to look at that to get you in and some of them have been not as much of priority um or it will be held against held against you right uh I would say that the expectation to graduate with the you know I think all universities are held by the same guidelines for for a bachelor's degree you need 120 credits you need to be able to complete you know this amount for your cours work and general EDS that hasn't changed but the way that we're able to help students and understand where they are coming out of school and be able to get them to graduate is now we grew up in an era and I think those that're a little bit old us and won say how old we are um they were they were pretty much going to school and graduating in about four years you know that's not the case anymore for a lot of

[18:37]  schools it takes more than four years five or six years for an undergrad degree so now you have students who are in a college setting a little bit longer if not much longer and they're getting more schooling now to where maybe they can learn some of those skills some of those things that they lost because let's not forget it wasn't just the learning that they lost it was how to interact with one another how to talk to somebody how to have conversations those those skills that are always important and necessary for the that next progress whatever they're doing those have to be relearned and they have to be able to be buil up so that they can be useful so it wasn't just academic based it was you know socially you know it was mentally and

[19:27]  emotionally our students mentally prepared for what it takes to go to school moving away being away from family are students ready to do that see a lot of students that aren't moving away far from home they want to be close by they want to be close to where their parents are where they came from because they're not at that place to where can they rely on themselves to do it so reteaching helping those students kind of learn some of those things I think a lot of schools are looking at that we're seeing that with students helping them adapt when they do move helping them be able to be independent all the above I mean there's a there's a lot of responsibility that's put on leaders and staff and faculty of higher education to help accelerate these students into a position where

[20:13]  they can be successful you know I would really be interested for you to kind of debunk what does a day in the life of a dean of students look like because in our previous conversation you had mentioned to me often when students come to me they think that this is purely disciplinary but often we get a different result so why you kind of break down like the daily responsibilities of a Dena student and some of the stuff that you're doing yeah so that that is a big portion of what I do I'm over conduct and so that that's a big role that I place on myself um and in my job function um but I'm student facing I mean a lot of Dina students they they want to be able to be where the students are they want to be engaged in helping them build a good rapport and relationship with the students on campus you you I like to say that we're like we

[21:02]  understand the heartbeat of Campus through the students and we've got to know what's going on and so yes while I deal with a lot of conduct issues and things that happen um on on a daily basis I could very well be helping a student get through you know some issues that they're having with the roommate or um you know basic needs that we know a lot of students have uh with um you know Finding you know tutoring or things like that additional Support Services to maybe tending a practice maybe going to a rehearsal um going to an activity an event that the school is being held we're so student facing that I like to be on campus as much as possible to where the students are um that means

[21:52]  even eating with the students just finding where they are checking in with them um obviously monitoring make Mak sure everyone's doing what they're supposed to right um promoting the code of conduct making sure everyone understands why we have that and then just having a good time what do you think the the biggest challenge higher education is facing right now in 2024 it's an election year like I talked about the sentiment about higher education has been changing over the last couple years what do you think is the biggest challenge highered as a as a macro is kind of facing right now it's a great question I would say retaining the students that we have and making sure that their needs are being met I think is a big challenge in higher education um and another one is is affordability uh as much as you probably

[22:42]  know as well the education that we got we'll say even 10 15 years ago that price change is is different than now and so the affordability of school as prices have continued to go up Nationwide for Education you know it's a heads scratcher for a lot of people they're like they're looking at that and saying all right is this um you know money that we're going to put in we hoping to get what we get you know the work that we put in the degree that we in you know my my return an investment is it going to be there when I obtain this school especially since students are going a little bit longer um so like you said going to an election year higher education has been a topic where a lot of people been talking and

[23:30]  discussing about debt cancellation and those things I think schools have a responsibility to make sure that they have clear understandings of what it means for students when they go to school of pricing of making sure that this is something that they do want to afford they can't afford or if scholarships grants you know financial aid if those things are attainable and usable are students taking advantage of it I did did read some recently that a lot of students and parents forego even looking into financial aid opportunities because they don't even know how to and so are we just not as Educators but those who have you know those responsibilities are we making it available so that individuals families

[24:19]  know that this is a possibility that they could be and qualify for you know a financial aid or for Grants those are things I think that that students and parents would love to learn more about and it's really hard to know how different states and areas are doing that um because it's not Universal you know everyone's different when it comes to those things it's an interesting topic of discussion um I believe in our last conversation I had brought up um another guest who's going to be on the podcast from the University of Washington Dena students and she talked about how there are more parents involved in the application process than ever primarily because they recognize that student debt often translates into family debt correct and it's an interesting dynamic because when I was

[25:08]  coming through school I went to an all guys Preparatory High School to get into college highly esteemed but we were not told or taught about financial literacy right nor did my parents really hand down a ton of financial literacy and education to me and so it makes a lot of sense when parents forego students forego the option to even explore financial aid because they don't even know that those resources are there like you said do we just need to be better at educating do we need to create better opportunities for Access or what does that look like I think it's all the above you know and I think it has to start early you know in our education system right now we there's a lot of things that we want to focus on but are we focusing on the right things that are educating our youth to be put in the best possible situations moving forward financial literacy and understanding of

[25:57]  how that works works is something that you know let's be honest we you take an economics class here and there in high school you may take you know a class on finances here and there um but it's it's not it's not the norm and not every student gets out of it what they should which is do you know what debt is do you know how to manage a budget do you know the reason for having a budget you know those are things that need to be taught early on because then you build on the skills for you know when the student gets their first job what are they going to do when they get paid do they already have bills I mean at least my parents you know it wasn't talked about what that looks like back in the day it was like balancing a checkbook obviously we

[26:45]  don't do that anymore but just the idea of understanding what you have in your account you know are you spending more than you have those are things that students and youth need early on because then what that does is when there are Financial talks whether it be for it's not just education but it's just everyday life when you get your first job when you need to buy your first phone when you want to live on your own then they have a sense of realness to it because now they're GNA apply those skills I think far off far too often we we expect that that this will come from home and I think parents struggle with understanding what those look like from themselves so teaching that is a

[27:32]  difficult situation sometimes um and with most of America living paycheck to paycheck there's a struggle there but then also how can schools do better on that side of understanding finances I think it warrants more of a discussion throughout well I think you'd be a great leader to start having some of those conversations Nick you know I'm saying I'm not gonna put one asked me I'd be happy to talk about it but i' I've seen it time and time again where we talk about responsibility as a as a college student and what that looks like and not just financial management but time management you'd be surprised how many students come in and say I've really never said a schedule before ever I don't even know what that looks like and now we're giving them you know class

[28:20]  schedule they got practice schedule they've got to do this they've got to be here and they're and up until like you said a couple a couple days ago where they were raising the hand to go to the bathroom mom or dad was taking care of their schedule for them you need to be here make sure you don't miss this you got this appointment and now they're doing it on their own those type of opportunities and skills should be looked at early on and you know I would even argue Middle School to make sure that that's something that they're building upon every year so that by the time you're in 12th grade you're in high school you're looking to graduate all right now you've got a solid foundation and you know how to take care of yourself for these type of things I mean imagine how impactful a course or a class on time management would be right

[29:08]  how to set up your schedule how to make sure that you're not overextending yourself how to make sure that you have enough time to do everything that you're putting onto your schedule and then budgeting your time to be able to accomplish those things I would definitely appreciate that a little bit more than I'm still waiting to use the Pythagorean theorem at some point in time in my professional life and I know it's going to come so I'm still glad that that's earned in the back of my brain somewhere but time management would have been a little bit more helpful you know what I mean hey but we still have those equations memorized haven't used it in over 20 years but you know you still can recite that and again it's looking at education as a whole and saying you know are students going to be able to take what they learned and use it and I think there is you know that's education reform right when you look at that and saying how can we model the everyday life of what goes on in adapt

[29:58]  that into education I still think there needs to be more discussion on that financial side absolutely because I I I don't think there's enough talk on finances I don't think there's enough talk on on debt and what that really means when you go into debt however that looks like because a lot of people think that um or or not even think they just don't know what happens then um and if you look at everything on social Media or what's going on you'll get a lot of different viewpoints of what that is so just having the basics being taught to you I think it's important really I saw a uh I saw a post on Instagram today where this mom was doing a really good job of pointing the

[30:45]  finger in a little bit of a Raz at her teenage daughter daughter's 16 years old she just went to Sephora and bought a whole bunch of makeup she opened up her American Express app and said why does the American Express app say that I have to pay them I already paid for the makeup when I swiped the American Express and her mom was laughing but I was thinking to myself if your daughter doesn't understand that a credit card is credit and that she has to pay it off later in life what type of false environment are you really bringing her up in because it's that little bit of understanding of finances is like we talked about how to not overextend yourself how to not spend money when you don't have it in the bank account and find yourself in trouble and I guess you'd rather make those mistakes when you're 16 but those things if not addressed and just posted on social media only compound into bigger problems in the future especially when we're talking about interest and we're talking

[31:33]  about you know Mis payments and things like that look we know that uh there there's a there's a big um operation when it comes with with credit cards and and those kind of things people see stuff online they really want it I'll put it on a credit card you know we know credit card debt is something that a lot of people carry however what do you do to make sure that you can get out of that debt right and like you said young lady probably had no idea that not only does she have to pay what she paid for at the store but she's got to pay a little interest and you know say she starts making minimum payments well now it's going to prolong that a little bit she gonna be paying a lot more um definitely not talked about and I'll do even one more how many parents how many

[32:22]  adults really truly understand those things as well right um and that is something finan financial literacy even amongst adults I think is something that would be beneficial because if you're GNA have a hard time teaching a a young individual 15 16 years old and the parents don't know what to do or how to do it maybe we start and got to start with the parents too um because if parents really don't know how that debt is going to affect them and they're certainly not going to be able to teach their their their young kids their teenagers what to do as well no I totally agree with you man I want to I want to switch gears a little bit and talk about um the responsibility of higher education to be curious about how we're going to meet these new students

[33:09]  where they are so in a our last conversation I believe I shared the statistic higher education year-over-year seems to be shrinking at 6% online education as an example continues to grow at 20% and plus each year eventually there's going to be a crossing right of the two different spaces how can higher education get creative and curious enough to be able to kind of think about how we're going to deliver education in the future to this next Generation who's exposed to online learning information at their fingertips generative Ai and all the other kind of tools that are out there these days yeah that I really like that question because you're looking at it in two forms because there is a system being built right now where a lot of education is online we're even seeing schools that are like VR platforms and specifically run for for students to

[33:57]  interact and operate using virtual reality uh which is mindblowing right I mean the thought of even just using a computer back in the day was great but now they're using virtual reality for an education you know th those are some pretty cool advancements I think there has to be a blend because there will always be a need for individuals to be face Toof face for interactions and learning how to conduct themselves one with another and I don't think that's ever going away in a society in a Community as a whole we need those daily interactions and there's no better environment to do so than in an organ in an education setting where there's hundreds if not thousands of different individuals all in one spot learning how to figure out life uh getting along with

[34:47]  one another and then also learning and so I do still see education having its purpose and being platform where students can gain that experience the online education is also very interesting because a lot of students would rather do it from home it is the convenience of being able to learn at your own time at your own pace um and I and I think there's a need for that to continue however I think the model for inperson um learning from instructors because the other thing is a lot of students right now learning in and in high school online um can help you to a certain point but when you really need support from a faculty member or a

[35:37]  teaching assistant you need that in person you need someone to be able to to walk with you to help you and to show you what's going on um and I don't think that's going to go away and I think a lot of students would prefer to meet to get those needs met face to face with somebody um rather than online but that's just me seeing what the students that I've worked with in the past um they'd rather text you than call you but if you invite them to come to your office they would also rather do that um especially if they know that hey we're g to help them get to where they need to um and I and I and I do see I do see a Crossing as well but if higher education institutions can be innovated with how

[36:26]  they will support students um and the resources available on campus I see students continue to go and attend those institutions I feel like that is the last foothold if you will that higher education has in that argument Which is higher education in itself is about educating you as a student and providing an environment so you can grow that environment includes the Student Union all the conversations you're going to have having healthy discourse and I would say conflict with different people of different perspectives you know the world that we live in today is great from a convenience perspective and while you were talking about those students who would rather text you but they'd also rather be in the office to spend time with you that makes perfect sense when the pendulum swings towards convenience and digitization everybody gets used to the consumer behavior of

[37:13]  being able to do things quickly and efficiently but there is no replacement for the human element of communication and sitting down across from an amazing deed of students like Nick Roberts and then talking about what's going to happen in the future you know what I mean and I feel like that's what we need to lean into into from a marketing message of higher education a little heavier well absolutely I and I think when you're when you're able to get help and someone can can sit down with you and walk you through you know we'll take financial aid for an example right a lot of students you know they they they go online they try to figure out what to do and it's really hard but if you have someone by your side and they're really working with you oneon-one students of parents are going to choose that nine nine times out of 10 because they get that support that they need and being able to then ask questions and

[38:00]  interact you know that that is that is the environment that higher education is but then it's also building those skills that they're going to use moving forward not everybody's going to be able to work online not everybody's going to be able to have a job that it's streamlined you know just through the internet or through the phone or through emails there's going to be some there's going to be a lot more individuals who are going to need to be people facing they're going to be in the communities they're going to be doing something involving people so building those skills up are still just as important as getting an education whether it's online or in person because it's all those other things that we talk about that are just as valuable you may have a a degree and that paper may say you know Bachelor's of whatever but it's also

[38:49]  those other skills that you have learned and build upon through meeting others asking questions doing hard things that is going to help you move forward to we're at an interesting time in history both you and I so I'll I'll disclose my age to everybody who's listening to the podcast I was born in 1990 and so I consider myself very lucky because I feel like I saw the before time and I saw the technology times right I remember when I used to have to call my friends and be like hey is Brendan there can I talk to him before everybody got a cell phone right and before the internet and social media that's right the one thing I think we're at a unique place in time about is we are seeing how technology can be an accelerator not a replacement with the conversation around Ai and stuff like this I talk to a lot of different universities who are looking to put the human back in the human seat meaning having those pitiful

[39:38]  conversations being able to connect with each other one-on-one and then letting the technology do things about like answering questions about financial aid or admissions requirements or resources that they can access on campus I feel like that is a great position for technology today to play in human aiding the human element of higher education how do you kind of think about technology or AI in aiding the education experience in highed well we know technology and a they're not going anywhere and they're here to stay they're they're going to be you know becoming more advanced and sophisticated as we know it and I think that's fine I don't think we have to shy away from it but we do have to have an understanding of how we're going to utilize it it is a tool and it is a resource um and in my experience there's nothing

[40:27]  that that can be an interaction with an individual I just think there's too much that you can gain from talking with someone or just being in the presence of someone else that can help you moving forward and so while technology is is I mean I grew up in the day where if we wanted to know you know what the weather was going to be like we had a number we would call on like what's the weather going to be like you know for the next day or so so we get ready for school or whatnot I mean we've come long way right um but at the same time just because you have all the answers on your phone or you can look them up on the Internet doesn't mean you know what to do with those answers there there is still a an an understanding of learning in how to how to learn and how to progress as an

[41:19]  individual to to to move to forward right and you can't just get all the answers and then say all right I'm good you've got to have that progress to like how do I get those answers and now that I know that process how can I use that to be adaptable somewhere else I've seen a lot of students who rely heavily on AI for assignments or or or what that whatever they're doing and their real struggle is is H how to research how to study where to start because the first thing they do when they have an assignment is go to the computer computer and like all right how do I do this and it used to be you have to go to books youed have to talk with people you have to investigate and and study and now we've kind of lost for a lot of

[42:10]  students coming into you know online learning or whatever it may be they've lost that ability to know how to do that so I'm finding myself teaching students how to study and or how to note take that's not just computer specific uh just looking up answers and doing that but how to investigate themselves finding real answers that will matter to them man those those critical skills that you develop as being a human through the higher education process being able to formulate a plan a plan of attack being able to look at certain resources being able to differentiate if this is valuable to me or not the one thing I do worry about when it comes into the level of you know AI I actually just noticed I was working on chat GPT a little earlier today and at the very bottom of chat GPT they just put a little no uh little phrase in there that

[42:57]  says chat gbt may make mistakes may make mistakes so please review the information yeah and I was like that's really interesting because it seems like they would put that in there because people are taking what is the output of chat gbt as the gospel like oh this thing is all knowing and it couldn't make mistakes but you still have to leverage that element of I would say skepticism right health healthy skepticism to be able to understand if this information is legit or not and that's something I think these future Generations are going to become very good at well we've we come to a point to where a lot of students are not wanting to think for themselves they just want to give you the answers that we think that we want and we don't want that we want them to be able to think on their own take in information and tell us what's going

[43:45]  through their mind how they would do things how they would articulate you know this this piece that we read or whatever it is that's interest I haven't you know I haven't seen that yet but it's not surprising either because we we see a lot of students take everything that is online as like they go that's the gospel that's everything like it's it's real it's 100% legit no questioning it and it could be concerning that they don't ask questions is that right just because you read it doesn't mean it's 100% correct so always you know fact checking looking at your sources where is it coming from you know some some students have never understood the concept

[44:35]  of other sources could say something that is contrary to what you what you found originally the first thing they looked up oh that's it that's what I'm going with and and there's nothing else and so yeah finding ways for them to to learn how to do that that that is that is something that I think every school is looking at saying all right how could we better help our students do that do those things yeah we often in society today confuse popularity for Authority just because something has a million likes does not mean that it is accurate you know what I'm saying right um have you ever heard of trillian drift before have not have not okay so Winston Churchill has been praised as coming up with all these phrases right you say something

[45:23]  and it was like said by Winston Churchill it's interesting because of the things they found in large language models in the very beginning was there would be quotes that would be output by the system and because there are so many different versions in iterations of what Winston Churchill said they would start marking it as a quote by Winston Churchill and so they call it churchillian drift because often we give citing to a person who said these things but they never did and it's a really interesting way in which if you have too much information if one system claims it as something like you said it's taken as the gospel instead of being critical enough to say I don't think he really said that the A's were going to win the Western Conference you know what I mean it's just an interesting little perspective that's right um yeah they like 15 games behind you like look they got some work to but no you're you're

[46:09]  right it understanding where your information come from is just as important as as you know using that for reporting purposes um you know I used to have a a quote that says never never never quit um from Winston Church Hill you know and who knows if he actually really said that or if it's what that really happened but it is interesting because that's where a lot of misinformation happens but then the question is does anyone question it does anyone look into it and say did this really happen did this person really say this is that something that was a reality or was it just information that was put together and that's what they're telling us right now you're a th% right man it's a it's an interesting time but I'm glad that we have leaders like you who are ushering in and guiding this next generation of critical

[46:56]  thinkers to to be able to be the next generation of our country who going to make the biggest difference and it just makes me feel a lot more sound when we have grounded leaders like you who are willing to do what's necessary to help round out this next Generation Um my last question for you yeah comes from another guest on the podcast okay their question was simple but I'd love to hear your answer what is happiness to you oh that is a great question um happiness is uh knowing that I can be with my family knowing that I can be with the individuals who I love and care for and you know being true to myself and and just really enjoying the things that life has to

[47:46]  offer H happiness is always such a a unique um when you look at it because I feel like a lot of people think that happiness should come because of X Y and Z but I found a lot of happiness and even Joy too and even hardships hard things knowing that they're going to end and how much more sweeter it's going to be when that is done sometimes life for me it it looks like that you know I could still be happy even though you know things are not going how I want but because I know I'm grounded and things that matter to me most you know I'm still happy that's a really good question I love I love that I'm actually going to use that now as a introductory question for my students here in a couple weeks you really should really should that's I

[48:35]  like that question you know it's uh it's interesting because and you answered it perfectly because one of the misconceptions that we have in society today is that you said it again happiness is often tied to certain criteria right expectations that we have for certain things happening that make us happy right or outside of our control um I was listening to a podcast the other day with this guy who was incredibly successful he used to be the head of Google X and so I'm talking about like multi multi multi multi multi-millionaire guy right yeah he uh was talking about when I think of happiness and I ask people a similar question they often say it's the time I spend with my family it's the time when I pour into others it's when I do right by myself it's when I'm honest it's when I'm you know integrous it's never when I

[49:23]  bought the Lamborghini or when I got the new Tesla do you know what I mean and I'm worried that Society in itself continues to push that image when we all know truly deep down inside of us that that isn't true um and you absolutely killed it here's another let's let's take this a little bit further okay um what is would you how do I want to frame this so everybody has had horrible situations happened in their life tragedies loved ones have passed away all of those type of things I want you to picture a bad moment in your head and I want you to think about would you if you could erase that experience from your life but in erasing that experience you also erased everything that happened as a consequence of it conversations family members reaching out to you deepening of relationships friends that you might

[50:11]  have met would you eliminate that bad experience in your life if it meant everything else that came as a domino effect of it also went away yeah what a great question this is a simple answer I'm GNA say no and two two parts two reasons one is you don't become the person that you want to be just from all the easy things that happen in life and part of that is because we know there's there's an opposition to everything that we do good and bad we really truly can't know true happiness if we don't know the really bad things or the really hard times and so everything is defined by the experiences that we go through

[50:59]  and and really who we are but if you don't have those really sucky bad experiences then we're not really Pro progressing and working on ourselves to be the best best versions that we can be I've looked at a lot of students for example who've been really good examples of overcoming a lot of difficulties in their lives they probably would never have trade those difficulties to where they are now because they never would have realized that they need to move forward or aim higher and so I I wouldn't trade it I wouldn't trade any bad experience although going through them you know that's a different conversation how you're feeling when you're going through them but I've learned over the years that if you have a mindset that

[51:49]  you know this to Shall Pass right that this is a a a small moment within a lifetime it helps ease the burden that this is going to be all right you're going to come out stronger and we're all about that let's take care of that everybody thank you once again Nick Roberts for being an amazing guest on the heart and hustle podcast man you absolutely killed it and as is a perfect place for us to wrap thank you so much we'll catch you the next one