How to Turn Setbacks into Success

[0:00]  they want to be a part of these discussions they want to be a part of the change and so what's going to be important is pulling these employees um into conversations where they are able to give us the information that we need to build companies that they feel like they can thrive in and it's hard it's so hard because I want to be you know I realized I feel like I'm young but I realized that my work ethic is like of the old school it's of a different nature and I'm my kids are actually being raised by me but in this world they're going to grow up probably to be you know more on that side um and I think the best thing that we can do I have a team where most of my team members are like in their early to mid 20s the average like the the average age is like 25 you know and so first of all

[0:48]  realizing I feel like we're all equals but recognizing they're all 15 years younger than me at least and then calling them into conversations roundt discussions coffee chats or whatever we can do sending out to collect data about what is going to help them to feel like they can Thrive and of course sometimes we get some real some some responses that I'm like nah absolutely not we're not doing that but most of the time we're a from the greater group I do have over 160 employees so I I'm able to extract the data helps me to take the biggest piece of the pie and go okay I think we can do this all these other little things maybe not but I do think we can do this and we can find a way to meet in the middle because it's an evolution I saw it as a behavior problem

[1:36]  because I'm a behavior analyst so I was like this is a problem that impacts the employer which impacts the families that we serve all right guys welcome back to a brand new episode of the heart and hustle podcast today is going to be an incredible conversation because I have Porsche James across the seat for me now one of the things that we should recognize is that she is an amazing leader who is innovating in the ABA therapy space now one of the things that we're going to dive into is not only her passion for this space creating opportunities for people to get support who might not be represented in a lot of

[2:23]  these spaces that we think about but more importantly we're going to talk about the passion that makes her such an amazing leader today Porche welcome to the show hey hey thank you for having me so porsa I got to ask you a question yeah work aside who is the woman who sits across from me today how would you describe her um I am soft-hearted I think that's the first the first thing my mother um I've been married for eight years to an amazing supportive the most supportive person I've ever met um I have three children they are 15 n and five and they run me raged um I'm I'm their homeschool teacher um for my younger two um and I'm a sister I think being a sister is probably one of the favorite one of my

[3:10]  favorite roles um that I carry it's outside of work those are I think those are my big highlights you know one of the things I like talking about is all of the experiences that we've had in life are like simple brush Strokes that make up the Masterpiece that is us right and so when we talk about not only the business that you found founded today in Behavior genius but I want to talk about some of the experiences that you've been through that have brought you to where you are today so why don't you kind of give everybody kind of like the rundown of exactly who sits across from me and how we got to this place ah um okay uh long story short u very short I've been in the field of behavior analysis since 2006 um I know I don't look it but it's been that long for me almost two decades um I started um during my internship in

[4:00]  college as a behavior technician and just kind of worked my way up the up the ladder um and then in 2019 I was working in a job where I was um sitting in a corporate space as director of clinical operations so it's my job to oversee directors clinical directors all over the United States for the company that I was working for so there were about 16 of them from 16 States and 16 different directors um and my job was actually took a turn from just being clinical as behavior analyst to understanding the kpis the ins and outs and the needs of the organization fell in love with organizational behavior management at that time um and really my job was to help to facilitate the growth and the continuing um you know quality of services provided to the families across

[4:49]  the United States um so I did that for about three years and then in 2019 right after I had my son um I went back to work for maternity leave um I complained about a $60,000 pay disparity between myself and a white man who was working in a lateral position to me um and I was left out of my email by the time I got to my car um they didn't even formally fire me so um that was it was hard that was really hard um I decided after spending a few weeks um I spent it was during the holidays so you know I didn't spring into looking for a new job right away although I didn't really have the money to take any time off um we just struggled for a little bit through the

[5:36]  holidays and after that I decided I was going to get out of bed um and I um submitted an application for the largest Healthcare in Southern California ihp and landed a contract with them and was like all right ABA is the only thing I really think I know front and back you know in my sleep and so I'm going to test this out and see if I can launch um a social skills program for kids who are underrepresented here in s Bernardino County and that's what we did in 2020 when we launched Behavior genius I I want to ask a couple questions um sure first of all the experience of you being in such a powerful position of influence 16 States 16 directors underneath you having a bad

[6:25]  taste in your mouth after you left the organization you decided to come back into the a ba space why did you think that creating your own company as an example was the way in which you were going to be able to do right by the people who we were trying to serve oo um good question there's I think that a lot of people look at my story and they're like wow you know that just um that takes you're so brave you know you're so strong for being able to do that and the truth is I was afraid I was afraid to go back to work and to put my livelihood the career that I had worked for for almost 20 years into the hands of someone else um I didn't know what to do it was actually like one of those fork in the road moments where it was like you know I had to choose to be courageous either way either direction I went whether I started my own company or

[7:12]  went back to work it took an enormous amount of Courage for me to just walk back into the doors um of a system that really wasn't designed to serve people who look like me um but I learned during that time that there's so much Innovation and opportunity in adversity and inequality because so few people are running that race and so one thing about me that has always been true is that I thrive in the Gap like if there's a problem an error an issue if we're performing at 80% that 20% is where I really really Thrive I do very well in that area that's really where the change happens and when there's where there's opportunities for Innovation and so I started this thing from a place of fear and lack and hopelessness and panic like sheer tear honestly now over time i' i' I've been

[8:01]  able to you know through being an entrepreneurship um over the last four and a half years I've lost friends um you know I've had to make decisions that were really difficult for me to make but I see more clearly now that my life's Mission um is to build a platform and to only be involved in other platforms where you know people know that the people who are serving them are really for them and whether that's me serving the people that I manage and that I get an opportunity to work with my organization or the families that we serve it's not really just about autism anymore that experience for me made it about the revolution about reform and about being connected to people who just want to do good work and they want to have Pathways and opportunities to be able to do that without um

[8:48]  discouragement or you know without a system that's going to tie them you know down or prohibit them from from being able to to actualize their true potential you know and serve as many people as they possibly can I love that you identify that you thrive in the Gap I was having a conversation yesterday with the CEO from a large nonprofit in uh Connecticut and he said Keenan I came into this organization and I had an opportunity in front of me there were two years of horrible reviews and terrible reputation in our community and I looked at that as an opportunity in which I could apply myself fully to this mission to be able to tra create change in the community in which I served and I said why did you look at that as an opportunity and he said very frankly when we come across challenges in life we have two decisions

[9:35]  to make we can either cower because it's scary to move forward or we can lean into these moments and on the other side of those moments we have the most growth what do you think about that absolutely that's the hard my hardest times the most heartbreaking or the the most fearful um times I've ever had you know the most fearful I've ever been I've absolutely been in those times where it felt dark where I felt alone um you know where really I didn't see a way out and it's interesting because when I think about my past and we always talk about this just in entrepreneurship but I think it applies even um in our in our work as employees when I was working with kids I had experiences where I would go into homes and families were already feeling hopeless about you know the outcome that they could expect for

[10:22]  their child and I would come in and say this is what uh we're going to do this is how we're going to do it and this is what I expect the outcome to be and I have no doubts about that I'm really good at my job and I had a manager who would say why do you why do you build people up like that why why do you give parents this hope when you don't really know you know what you can do and I was like well first of all I'm a scientist um but second I do know I know that just like your friend said this is where I thrive when someone feels hopeless including myself or when it it's looking Bleak or dark that's really where I get energized um we have no choice but to think um innovatively or creatively when we don't see any other option A lot of

[11:10]  times what I've learned is like when there's a bunch of options that we can pull from we pull from the status quo the lowest hanging fruit the simplest way to resolve something but when it looks like there isn't a resolution in sight is really when you have to um turn on that genius energy blast the the hipop or whatever just what just me absolutely yes blast The Hip Hop and you know and just really go to work and be in the lab figuring out something you know and it's hard it's hard to build something that you've never built it's even harder to build something that you've never seen but that's really where the excitement is that's where like the Elon Musk and you know the the big the greats of our time um that's where they lived they lived in that Gap when we feel hopeless um one of the things that I've recognized in my

[11:58]  personal reflection ction of my moments of Despair is I don't know what to do to get out of this moment and everything feels overwhelming and the one thing that I relate with when you were talking about when you go into a family into a home and you speak to a family and they feel overwhelmed by the outcome of the situation they do not have an illuminated path of saying this is what we're going to do and then this is what we're going to do so we can build momentum and this is where I feel like a lot of people struggle not just in entrepreneurship but in life in general if you don't know the work that qualifies and quantifies to the outcome that you're trying to accomplish it's very easy to not know where to go and the first step is let's establish a plan on how we can attack this and if we execute on that the results will come 100% I think you know that happens in other health care Fields like um oncology for example they bring the

[12:45]  whole family into a room they let you know that someone in your family's been diagnosed with cancer and then they give you an entire they call it a road map I used to volunteer for a a cancer organization and so they call it a road map app and they literally break down this is you know what your child or your child or it was children who I worked with is going through this is the prognosis here are all of your treatment options and for each one here's why we have selected you know the best one here's all the information we have about each one but here's why we've selected this one for your child and it's collaborative and the family gets to choose then how they're going to move forward um and how they're going to be guided by their professional by their doctor I don't

[13:32]  think that we take it as seriously in ABA from what I've seen I don't think that teams are walking into the home and saying everyone gather around this is my very serious assessment this is what I've learned this is what I'm confident about and this is how we're going to tackle it and if we go this route I with a high percentage can be certain that you're going to yield these specific outcomes um I just think that the the science in itself has become so watered down because of the rapid growth that people just aren't coming in as confidently um to speak to families about what they can expect as really as any professional

[14:19]  should which is in direct contrast to an evidencebased practice you know what I mean it's really interesting to me that we kind of lean on these things and yet we are not willing to be able to put the game plan together and say hey if we follow this path based on all of the other individuals who we've engaged with and led down this journey here's our percentage of success here these are the things that we're going to experience and we need to lean back into that conviction that's what I feel like we need a little bit more and I hear that in your voice the conviction of saying I'm really good at my job and if you trust in me we will make something happen here uh a little bit earlier you had mentioned skills let's talk about why that word is so important and some of the areas of disparity and everything else that we're kind of talking about here oh my gosh um skills are so important I think you

[15:07]  know people come in to work what I've noticed and I I'm an elder Millennial that's what I like to call myself I'm 39 years old so I think I'm right at the cut off um I have a sister who's almost 10 years younger than me and she's like a true Millennial she's right in it she always reminds me of what Millennials want and what they need and how they how they respond to certain things um and I'm just floored sometimes I think um a couple things are happening with skills people are coming into um a position and they're expected for all of the skills that they need to be trained by their company right so I'm coming in as a behavior analyst already but I want you to teach me everything I need to know about how to be a behavior analyst right

[15:54]  which training is important training is absolutely necessary but also when you get hired for a job you have to come in with a skill set that we find valuable enough to pay you right and what's happening in Behavior Analysis specifically is that the incidence um rate is just increasing so rapidly when I first started it was 1 in 166 and now we are at like 1 in 36 and so um because of that people are just trying to meet the demand so Behavior Analysis has grown as an industry by 500% in the last like 10 years which is insane but what that means is that there just hasn't been enough training enough opportunity for people not only to be trained by the company but to be trained by life

[16:41]  experience to have been in it and just have learned how to do the job and picked up skills along the way that's how I was just thrown in with the sharks and I just decided if I was going to swim or not um and Millennials that's not how they want to do their jobs they want to be confident right they don't want to figure it out the way that we had to figure it out they want to really believe that they have all the tools they they need a little bit more it takes a lot more Humanity to lead Millennials um and to build them up and give them the skills that they need to be able to do the job so that they're confident in doing it but a lot of times the skills go by the wayside because we're filling seats it's like a butts in seats type of situation and so um I think that's what we're what we're seeing is that you know there's

[17:27]  this contention between leaders and team members and it really just comes from team members coming in very very green expecting to learn everything that they need to know from their managers and managers just unfortunately not having the time to dedicate to ensuring that the skill set is there so that the team members can go in to the home confidently you know I want to I want to use the lens of ultimate accountability in this instance one of the things that is one of our our core tenants here at my company is Ultimate accountability and what that means is you have to be ultimately accountable to yourself first and that means developing the skill sets and everything else that comes along with that right and when you are ultimately accountable to yourself not only can you take care of yourself

[18:14]  better but you can take care of your teammates better now there is an onist and a responsibility for teams to continue to develop and nurture and cultivate the Future Leaders of an organization but they can only take you so far in a space where we have in Las Vegas I mentioned our previous call sou Nevada and you're coming to this community to serve as well a 6,000 family wait list 6,000 families are waiting for services here that's a two and a half year wait to access Services when we talk about the demand we just do not have the time to be responsive to be slow enough to respond to this and so it's an interesting dichotomy of pressure with the lens of ultimate accountability that comes with it and I feel like it's very important to lean into that element what do you think about ultimate accountability yeah I I'm first of all putting that in my pocket I'm taking it with me um trademarket if it's yours that's

[19:03]  great um that's really where the disconnect lives in the area of accountability you know I was attending a conference um a few months back and one of the questions posed for like a survey opportunity from the audience was um who is responsible for your well-being at work and it was so interesting because there were so many different responses right there the options you had to just click button options were like me my manager you know both I think and there were it was it was divided and that division in and of itself of who should be accountable for what really leads to one of my least favorite um circumstances or characteristics or

[19:51]  attitudes which is Judgment um you know feeling that someone else is accountable for your well-being or for your growth or or your understanding or your knowledge solely accountable and that there's no accountability on yourself to constantly be improving anytime you're in a scientific field it is your responsibility to um to be educated on an ongoing basis that's why we have continuing education and things like that standards that we have to adhere to but I think that the conversation needs to start at accountability and teams and managers need to understand who is accountable for conducting a task who's accountable for problem solving when something goes wrong who's accountable for you know your knowledge your growth your well-being your happiness um and once the under there's an understanding

[20:41]  there about everyone being accountable for themselves then I think that's where we can say okay but this is where I can help this is where I can be of support right because there's there is growth that comes from collaboration but the coll collaboration also I think really needs to come from people being willing to step up and say this is how far I've come and if we could collaborate on the other 20% that would bring me from 80 to 100 and we just don't get enough of that so we talked a little bit about Millennials here I was listening to a podcast one time where this uh the psychiatrist was talking about um macro Trends in generations and we were talking about gen Z and he said that gen

[21:28]  Z has the least perceived efficacy on their lives to any generation at this point in time and so everybody who doesn't understand what that means they have the least amount of perceived willingness to impact their worlds to change the life that they're living in so they think that somebody is going to come along and say Hey Porsche this is what we're going to do and I'm G to put you in this position to be successful instead of thinking about how they can impact their world and I'm not sure if this comes as part of the entrepreneurial mindset out of necessity but I recognized a long time ago that nobody was going to come save me and it was my responsibility to develop the skill set so I could provide enough value to create the life that I wanted because the systems never supported me in my journey I was never good at school I was never a part of a great academic

[22:16]  experience and I realized that once I get on the other side of this it's going to be me and myself only and I saw that in my family culture as well and I'm not sure if people are just naive to that idea but what do you think about about that necessity for nobody's coming to save us yeah I think that's really what like puts the barrier like I've noticed puts the barrier between me and my team right where it's like I I cannot climb into your body and force your impact right you have to wake up every day and be hungry for it and what more and if you do I'm going to notice you other people are going to notice you and you're going to be living in in your own fulfilled Vision uh for your life but I think that um so interesting that you say that because I did go the academic route like I did everything right I graduated I went to college immediately

[23:07]  I graduated from there early with high honors like I I really climbed the ladder um in the best way that I could and it didn't mean that I was going to be saved in the end even by the fruit of my labor right it didn't mean that because I had this history being a black woman when I got out there was still a thing and so I still had to carve my own path and create something that maybe didn't exist for me and in the meantime exist in places where I didn't necessarily feel that I belonged or that I was respected or honored and so I've always like the only thing I know is how to like get it you know I don't know how else to say it like that's the only that's the only way that I know and I don't see another way to have success

[23:56]  besides getting it every day um by yourself if you have to you know figuring out on your own if you have to and I do think that you know Millennials or gen Z they do kind of lead with this um learned helplessness I think and there's there's a there's a spirit of uh Us Versus Them where it's like I'm just going to be me and you're going to appreciate what I got to to offer right whether or not there's something that I have to bring to the table or not you know and so it's almost like a challenge me to a duel type of situation between entrepreneurs employers and employees you know and um I think that where that comes from is people have just gotten

[24:47]  tired of capitalism and I can understand that from like my lived experience that people are just is kind of in a place this is the the the generation of the advocate this is the generation where people are like I'm standing for something right I'm falling for absolutely nothing I'm standing on on it t toes down whatever it is that I believe in and um I think they have witnessed some of them may have experienced but they're very young for the experience but I think they've witnessed what we've been through um the elders and they've decided they're not going that route which is really commendable of them to say like something has to stop right where we've

[25:34]  paved the way through hard work and dedication and commitment and they are just like on a you know on a um skate they want a skateboard right through the little the little path right um it doesn't work like that though and I think that there is a middle that people need to reach but I do understand where that mindset comes from of of just going a lot of times we work and work and work and then we just go you know what [ __ ] it lights out I'm not I'm not doing any of this um and and so I think that's what we're experiencing is that like you know resistance that refusal to be a part of a system that doesn't respect people that doesn't honor people you know that doesn't give opportunities to

[26:20]  people who deserve them and I think that right now employers are experiencing the consequences of what was happening to us not that we're creating it but just of what was happening to us and now this generation is like no more oh man there's a lot of stuff to unpack there um one of the biggest things that I recognize is I I often bring this up in the podcast so sorry for everybody who's been tuning in over the last couple episodes but I talk about in 2022 right the Surgeon General came onto a national broadcast in America and said the biggest threat to our American society today is not another outbreak in a viral pandemic but an epidemic of isolation and loneliness okay now when you think about how distracted and how unmotivated people are in the world today because of all of the societal systems that have been created to gather your attention

[27:07]  take your money and literally keep you engaged in doing things that don't matter to your end goal in life it's very easy to feel hopeless I truly feel that we are secretly yearning deep down inside of us to feel connected to a mission of impact in an organization that work can f fulfill in our lives at this point in time and I think that there's a true opportunity for leaders to inspire people to do exactly what we're talking about here is take ownership for the things that you want to accomplish in life and do the work that is necessary because fulfillment comes through the application of trying you can't get the results that you look for in life by expecting for somebody else to come along and do these things for you and I worry about the macro trends of all these younger Generations who aren't willing to put in the work to

[27:54]  get the Fulfillment on the other side because everything is supposed to be easy yeah yeah I completely agree with that I think you know even just I was talking to my husband just yesterday about a new training program and I'm like sh how do we make this like a minute and a half two minutes right because that's as long as people want to watch something that's as long as they want to take to learn something that's that's the what the algorithm has done right that's what Instagram has done is it has taken big Concepts and made them one minute you know and and and honestly people are able to process that quickly and understand in one minute and have enough information at least to get an idea of where they need to explore and research so I think that there's an evolution that we're experiencing um a human evolution of

[28:42]  like how much our brains are willing to to hold how much stress we're willing to carry um because of Technology like we didn't have technology my daughter actually lost an assignment a paper assignment the other day and had a panic attack um just about and she said mom you don't understand and I said I understand because when I was your age we had Microsoft and it was new and you could be working on your assignment um and then it would just disappear because there was no autosave my dog literally ate myom like I understand you know like I trust me I get it um and so but I think like you know just even autosave like we had to remember every 10 minutes to like save our save our work they don't even have to do that you know and so um I I

[29:31]  just think that you know the the impact of technology is shaping the workforce right now and fortunately for me I love technology so I can kind of lean into it a little bit and go how can we use technology to connect with our teams uh maybe more frequently but uh shorter durations right I think that as Leaders we do have to I wanted to Stand My Ground not GNA lie like my first two and three years I was like these people are [ __ ] they're either going to get it or they're going to get right like it was hard being an employer um but over time I was like I have to join them in this revolution that they're on in any ways that I can now I can't fully go on every Journey

[30:19]  but I can join them in the Revolution being a revolutionary myself I understand what they're fighting for and what they're fighting against and I can try not to be the picture of that thing that they're fighting against and I think that if we think more innovatively and think how can I reach them you know and look at the facts they don't want to learn if it's longer than 10 minutes long they don't want to come to the meeting if there's not a specific like agenda and an outcome uh they don't want to hear somebody just talking at them right they want to be a part of these discussions they want to be a part of the change and so what's going to be important is pulling these employees um into conversations where they are able to give us the information that we need to build companies that they feel like they can thrive in and it's hard

[31:08]  it's so hard because I want to be you know I realized I feel like I'm young but I realized that my work ethic is like of the old school it's of a different nature and I'm my kids are actually being raised by me but in this world they're going to grow up probably to be you know more on that side um and I think the best thing that we can do I have a team where most of my team members are like in their early to mid 20s the average like the the average age is like 25 you know and so first of all realizing I feel like we're all equals but recognizing they're all 15 years younger than me at least and then calling them into conversations Round Table discussions coffee chats or whatever we can do sending out surveys to collect data about what is going to help them to feel like they can Thrive

[31:59]  and of course sometimes we get some real some some responses that I'm like nah absolutely not we're not doing that but most of the time we're a from the greater group I do have over 160 employees so I I'm able to extract the data helps me to take the biggest piece of the pie and go okay I think we can do this all these other little things maybe not but I do think we can do this and we can find a way to meet in the middle because it's an evolution I saw it as a behavior problem because I'm a behavior analyst so I was like this is a problem that impacts the employer which impacts the families that we serve um and it was really hard for me to get out of that mindset and go okay this is an evolution that we're experiencing usually you're on one side of evolution you don't get to be in the

[32:45]  middle of it but we had no cell phones no computers and now we have ai so like we got to see the evolution and I think just having open conversations about how can we meet you in the middle um I think that's the only way that we're going to be able to ever see eye to eye because what's happening is if we can't then the the younger you know crowd they're starting their own companies they're going into entrepreneurship and they they're not ready but they're tired of the fight you know and so they're going into entrepreneurship underqualified um underprepared and I think that's going to that's going to speak volumes to our economy and I think we'll realize that in the next 10 years or so there's been a lot of influence out there before I kind of talk about that I need to plug a pin in the idea that I'm

[33:32]  riffing within my head um the biggest skill set of our modern-day leaders who are going to be successful in building the organizations for the future is the skill of curiosity when we were born I was born in 1990 right and so I was in the middle of the millennial generation where I saw everything changing so quickly and I had to be curious about what is this new technology new what is this new way to communicate what are all aim what is Facebook what is all these different type of thing now we're here with AI and unless we are willing to be curious enough to say I need to adapt and change like we've been talking about today you are going to be stuck in a place where life and everything else is going to pass you by and the people who you're begging to respect you are going to say you have no idea what's what's going on and so you almost have to be sharper than all of these younger people

[34:19]  who are coming into the organization to prove to them that you're willing to be adaptable because they have a skill set of adaptability which they've experienced in their lifetime the pandemic everything else that comes along with that yeah 100% I think like you know you that is so true that is a skill set um I was having this conversation recently where I was like you know what is the issue with this particular employee right and the response from their manager was you know they just really struggle with change and there's lots of change and they just really get rattled and have a hard time navigating the change you know it's stressful for them and I said got it this is a brand new company we're four years old we're a baby we're going to make updates just like apple all the time maybe monthly

[35:07]  right we're just G to update all the time because we're getting better we're learning new things and we're like being Innovative that is at the core of our company is innovation we're a young company with young team members and so what I need that person to understand is that if adaptability is not a skill set that they are using when they're going into change when they're having to navigate change um that's where their growth spot is because anyone who's not adaptable it will not be fit to lead this team um because this isn't that you know this isn't an old company that's been running the way that it's been running for the last 25 years and it's good and we don't have to make any change we have to make change just to stay current just to stay relevant for our families and our teams

[35:54]  um and to be better to be able to provide we have to use technology to be able to provide better higher quality services to the families that we support and that does require us to learn a new software every now and then and if that person is unable to adapt um that's not going to they're not going to do well in a company like this building that culture is tough um especially you have a unique Advantage because your team is younger um I started my company as a tella Health company back in 2014 and so when I was bringing Innovation to the table in healthcare people were like there 's no way there's going to be a future for video in this space and I was like you guys don't understand where we're going you're not being very adaptable but I had team members who were in their mid-50s and they were playing is as part of my chief executive team and we were

[36:41]  talking about things as simple as we need to record all of our team meetings so we can use those recordings to disseminate information to to everybody else they came from the healthcare sector and they said we can't do those things that's not how we do it and I said you don't understand where we're going and if you're not going to be able to adapt this skill set you're not going to be a part of this team and years later they're no longer here and I've got a team now who leans into saying how can we use these tools to be more efficient to get more done because we have to do more with less but you have to move fast and break stuff like Mark Zuckerberg said back in the day if you're gonna have the biggest impact that you're looking for it's the truth you don't have the luxury of sitting around anymore 100% we don't we don't have a luxury of having like consistency you know and I think in ABA I think I'm blessed in that there's there's ABA

[37:29]  business owners that are learning ABA while they're owning the business for me I learned ABA you know and I learned the industry while I was a behavior technician 18 years ago and so I've seen how fast we have to move and we weren't moving nearly as quickly as we are now um we had paper data binders you know nobody was I'm a freak in the spreadsheets now but before we had to like paper pencil Gra you know it was grueling and um and watching it evolve from something that was already faster paced than other you know Industries but watching it evolve and you're right there really is a time where we have to decide is this too much for me or am I willing to be curious and

[38:19]  am I willing to adapt and to grow um and it's not so much about following a trend it's more so about being on the side of um of growth that you want to be on right being on the side where you're not constantly taking two months to go oh my God this thing is happening what are we going to do um get just immediately getting into the lab and innovating and almost it requires us to be one step ahead not of our competition but just like you said one day we're going to have tele medicine and this is going to be necessary and I'm doing it now that's what's hard about being an entrepreneur and a Visionary is that you saw that and everybody else was like I don't see I don't see the sky falling I don't see it doesn't look like rain to me and you're

[39:07]  like all right well do you want to be caught in it though when it comes do you want to be prepared you know and that's hard because having to it slows us down to have to constantly be getting Buy in from the people that we serve and that we lead um in order to encourage them to do the work that we know is necessary because we can see from a different Vantage Point than they can there's a a unique perspective that's happening right now and I kind of want to get your two cents on this is like the use of Technology specifically artificial intelligence in spaces like this now one thing that I've recognized in my years my decade plus of spending time in this mental and Behavioral Health space is the way in which we are trained the mental and behavioral health professionals come from an academic experience which is very much like

[39:54]  you're going to go through the process you're going to see how things go but you're not taking an account for the compounding factor of exponential Improvement in technology and how it makes a huge difference in all of our Lives I have been continuously and this is like it hits me right in the heart you have to continuously convince the people in a space that has never been very adaptable and Innovative to think around the corner but they've never been rewarded and compensated to do so and when I think about the rock in the hard place where we are right now with the increasing numbers of diagnosis every single year the definition of insanity is thinking that we are going to do the same thing for the next five years and be able to outperform and get a different result from what we've experienced and that is terrifying to me but we need Innovative young leaders very transparently and entrepreneurs who

[40:43]  are Outsiders who can bring a different perspective into these spaces and say this is what you should be doing and it's really tough but you have to have so much grit and conviction to go back to the point earlier to get people to believe your idea it's like you're almost a prolific leader when you just can see around the corner and be like guys it's [ __ ] raining over here you need to get ready you know what I mean and it's so frustrating sometimes it is frustrating um that's that's the hardest thing I think is trying to you know trying to get people to be on the journey and also to understand that this isn't capitalism you know first of all I didn't invent capitalism so if it feels like if it feels capitalistic I'm a part of the system too as an employer right and I have to navigate as such but in this industry I think one thing that

[41:31]  people don't understand is that the rapid growth is coming from the increasing rates of autism this isn't like we're Target um or X trying to hit a certain Market to make billions of dollars for our own sake you know I I I didn't know how to describe it at one point and finally I was like this is a service that I show up every day to provide because I want want to because this is what I want to serve people and if in my work I can't serve people I don't want to do it but also I don't want anyone my team my families anyone to forget that I am in service to mankind when I'm showing up to work it's not about trying to make more money or trying to grow to get bigger we're just trying to keep up

[42:19]  with the need so that the need can be satisfied right but what happens is that there's like rapid organizational growth which means that there are lots of opportunities for team members to advance to get promotions to learn new skills um and whether or not they have learned the skills this rapid growth is leading to underqualified and undertrained managers who are then expected to perform with high levels of competence right High proficiency competence speed and accuracy they're expected to perform that way but we don't have time to train them at the rate that we need them to grow right and so there's a saying that says God doesn't call the qualify he qualifies the call and I think that technology is going to make it possible for us to take high quality humans like

[43:07]  you said Outsiders regardless of their experience even in this field provide them with high quality training feedback support and Reporting and then turn those people into high quality managers and leaders versus like this isn't the time for the natural leader the natural leader should rise up and should help but really we're going to have to start building better leaders and I believe that technology is going to do all the technical stuff so that people can get back to caring for the people and that's the only way we're going to keep up with the demand I agree I mean technology has to be looked at we do not have the luxury of looking at the classic human lizard brain perspective looks at a threat and says oh my gosh that's going to take my

[43:54]  job right you don't have the luxury of thinking about anymore technology is here to accelerate you to put you in the position of Leverage so you can do what you do incredibly well and everything else that you don't need to be focusing on you need to think about how you can activate and Implement A system that can take off the workload because let's think about the entire clinical experience I mean like U the documentation fatigue all of these things there are so many companies that are blowing up now that are taking that off of our clinicians plates and if you think about the delays in the service process if I spend a national average as a doctor five minutes with my patient and then 15 minutes documenting there's a huge bottleneck there and we need to attack that problem that's where I glad Innovation is stepping up to do these things I want to Pivot a little bit because I know we're charged up on this

[44:41]  to talk about creating organizations that look like us to serve people like us why is this so important oh my gosh um and when we say us I think it's important to Define us as the people all the people so like for me I I live and work I was born and raised in Southern California San Bernardino County where it is 60 at least 60% Spanish speaking it's all black and brown um and when I say us look like us I literally mean me as a representation of the community that I serve um over the last year corporate corporations have told the truth when they started Ed pulling the funding for

[45:28]  their Dei programs right that they do not care and I get a lot of questions about like how can we build more diverse companies um hire hire more black people the only the only advice that I have for people it's not mystical there's no magic wand you just hire diverse people one thing I'm really proud about at Behavior genius is we and this is incidental I didn't do this intentionally until I saw the data but two years ago we gathered some data from demographic data from our team and we realized that when put on like a pie graph our the demo the racial demographic of our team members and the language demographic of our team members matched our families almost perfectly like almost exactly which I thought was

[46:18]  so cool because you know I get a lot of well how do you do that I'm like well we don't discriminate in our hiring practices we're hiring the people that live in these communities um we didn't do it on purpose but now we do now we make sure that the people that we're hiring um are representation of the people that we serve and the reason that's important is because we have an opportunity to go into homes where people look like us and to make impact not just with a family but in the entire community and so we want to make sure that we're able to pair families for trust reasons especially people of color and different people of color different cultures of people of color have trust issues around different things but those walls come

[47:06]  right down and we're all able to do the work uh more effectively when we don't have trust issues and when we don't have cultural clashes or misunderstandings so I think like the best thing we can be doing is putting people with a lived experience into homes with people with similar lived experiences because then you don't have to be so Innovative about how to solve this problem you can just think about what you would want for yourself or what you would want for your sibling right that's why it's important you can think about yourself which is the easiest thing to do and go what would I do for me or what would I want done for me and I can bring this to the table for this other person you know and I think that we have like mystified Dei programs I put air quotes because you know I don't I don't subscribe to Dei

[47:55]  programs um but we have mystified this thing and made it more difficult and really all it is is us doing the thing every single day knowing that our decisions impact everyone and so knowing that they impact everyone do those decisions serve everyone who is impacted and that requires the effort of the entire team right from the moment of hire I mean I couldn't agree with you more I mean I think about one of the biggest um things I will be proud of is the lineage of men who I came from so my great-grandfather was a sharecropper in Arkansas right a black man my grandfather was born in 1930 and was discriminated against for the color of his skin and sacrificed so much to put his family in a position where they

[48:42]  could just live a life right my father was the first entrepreneur in our lineage who made choices and sacrifices and took accountability to risk it to put me in a position where I can be successful do you know how good it feels to walk into a boardroom full of Executives from a Healthcare System who are all very transparently from one ethnicity often white and me and my team are sitting there and we are a representation of Spanish and women and black men who sit across from them and talk about how they should be innovating in this space to be able to create opportunities to serve more people that is so important to me because often when we're thinking about the impact of being an entrepreneur and the mission of what what you're building and what I'm building it's not just to solve the next

[49:30]  five years but I secretly think that there's a real tactical need to inspire younger Generations who look like us and come from similar lived experiences like us who can understand that they can do this stuff too and that's a huge responsibility that weighs on us but it's one that's just for fighting for yeah 100% I think all the time about the world that my kids are going to live in you know the the world that they're going to work in and and my kids don't have autism they're not in the population that I'm serving but they do have an opportunity to impact um the world in a way that ties back to where they came from and who they are and you know it's so funny I I had this

[50:17]  conversation with my mom where she goes I was looking for a housekeeper and my mom goes well just make sure you don't have them clean your kids' rooms they need to learn how to clean their rooms your kids are going to grow up and they're not going to know how to clean and at first I was like I almost I almost bought into that you know uh that black woman [ __ ] yeah but um but then I was like you know what Mom my kids are gonna learn how to care for people my kids are going to learn how to work hard they're going to be doing things that are so much more important and they're not going to have a dirty house because they're used to their house being clean but they're going to have to learn how to make them do the work to make the money to afford to keep their rooms clean if they don't want to do it themselves right um but it's just I think in what we're doing every day it's I have to remind myself

[51:06]  often that the first people that I lead are the ones inside of my home and if they're the only people that are ever impacted by my leadership there are three of them and one of me and so everything that I do is in um is a model for how I want them to show up for other people and how I want them to engage in work that fulfills them but also serves their community and just like you said when you walk in I love that you said that because often when I walk into a room I don't feel uh Pride first I feel inadequacy I feel like maybe I don't belong here these people are probably judging me because that's been my experience but you're absolutely right as I advance in my leadership when I

[51:55]  walk into a room I'm like look at these faces in here look at these people that get to sit around a boardroom table that come from all of these diverse backgrounds and have so much to bring to the T these people don't even know we're about to rock these white people's world no idea y y and I love that you said that because I don't think we talk about the feeling of Pride when you walk into a room and there is diversity and knowing what power comes from that but it comes back to exactly what we talked about earlier which is you said when you walk into a family's home you say I am really [ __ ] good at my job and there's a conviction that comes after you know what you say is going to bring results and if you're not on this boat you're missing out and that's where that

[52:42]  it feeling of inadequacy came from because very transparently man it's like when I first started working with my dad back in 2014 he's the only black man other than me in these rooms and I see how people look at him and it came from a place of like okay we're trying stuff out but my experiences and time that I've built up have not come from confidence of saying affirmations in the mirror but having a stack of undeniable proof behind me that says I am who I say I am and I can show you what's up because I know what I've done here and that takes time but it's also that element of accountability to myself as well to continue to show up and do the work that I do because I know I'm right and if you're not wrong you're going to be caught out in the storm because it's coming yeah 100% you know I um one thing I I wrote a book on organizational behavior management which

[53:29]  is like the study of human behavior in the workplace called radical OBM it's available on Amazon there you go copy sold um I what I've learned even since like before you know I wrote this with all of my thoughts and and my you know what I had gathered then but since then just talking about the book I've learned um that the best way to sum it up is that organizational behavior management is hum driven but it's data empowered leadership is a social measure of competence that's what makes it so difficult and so um frustrating for people because our hearts are in it because this is a social measure of our competences how can we impact the people that we lead data validates the decisions that we make um and the skills

[54:18]  that we have and it fills in the gaps where people may not understand what they can't see it tells a story about the organization and when you're in leadership that same data tells a story about yourself and your own track record and that's why I was able to walk into those homes and go I got you you're you're in the best hands you can be in not only because of my skill set but because I wake up every day excited to be here and to do something that's hard for you and and I think that that is where leaders need to get back to CU when you're there you're un touchable what you can do you know people used to tell me can you go and speak to this family because bring your magic wand uh because they need a little bit of magic it's not magic I'm just

[55:07]  really passionate and also I have the numbers to back it I've been in the game for a little bit of time I've used my skills I've done it wrong I've improved um and I have a track record of not just serving people but of improving the quality of life for the people that I've served with intention and there's data that backs that that and that's really where the confidence comes from um knowing that you're competent because you have information that tells you so exactly I mean one of the things is data doesn't lie and it cannot be discriminated against because if you're not looking at the hard black and white facts of what it is then you're making poor decisions and I can't change that type of ignorance is what I'd say you know there's an amazing saying I like to bring into these conversations so there's an Olympic weightlifting coach

[55:54]  right and he coined a phrase the more ways you measure the more ways you can win so one thing he did with all of his athletes is he would have them measure every single lift that they did so every single time that they got into a training session they would hit a PR a personal record and what that did is that created opportunities to build momentum and created morale around the journey that they were on but it goes back to this data set and this data conversation and your scientific background leans into this perfectly because you have to have the data to stand behind what you're saying you can't make promises in today's world but you have to show proof of why people should stand behind you and I feel like that in itself just needs to be emphasized a little bit more yeah a lot more I think you know people no longer and it goes on the other side too right people do come into organizations and

[56:42]  they have no track record or they have no experience or they have no proof but they have all the confidence in the world um I I love the idea personal best personal record that's always like been my I I come across as very competitive I do like to you know play games I like video games I will beat you in game night every time um but not so much for the competition between me and another person more so am I maximizing my potential am I better this time than last time did I get this person to um to grow at a faster rate or to learn at a faster rate than I got the last person to grow at every time there's um turnover within my organization especially at higher levels I look at what can we build so that we have the infrastructure to build a better

[57:31]  employee the next time right to to just to continuously get better and better um for this for the sake of the people who are here not so much for the sake of beating the competition because there is no competition when there's hundreds of thousands when there's 6,000 kids in Nevada who need support right who are on a waiting list but just so that we know that we're in alignment with our vision and our mission that we're getting closer and closer and closer to that as we uh continue to move forward having those types of measure I measure everything and I know it drives my team crazy but they can't argue with me because like what you said about data doesn't lie so I can walk into a room and really tell them anything that I want to tell them but I back it by data just so that they understand where it's coming from um and I when I open up the floor they're like you know there's

[58:19]  really nothing that we can say that disagrees with what you have um in terms of data um on why this decision is being made or why we're going in this direction or why we're using this technology or going away from this technology it's just so important because we don't have time to get into the weeds we're growing and we're moving right you got to move and break move fast and break things we don't have time to be in the weeds of trying to get people on board we just need people to be able to respond to the facts so that we can continue you know moving at the at a pace that serves you know people who really need the help I want to talk about an interesting dichotomy and this is something that I've struggled with for a long time but I feel like I'm getting better at it now being incredibly impatient in the micro and being very patient in the macro because the only objective that we have you and

[59:09]  I as Leaders of organizations is to not stop playing the game and we talk about the impact that we're trying to have in our communities and the people that we serve the only objective is to keep this ball rolling I want to listen to your perspective on the importance of really strict action in taking action right now in the micro but having flexibility in recognizing that this is a long Marathon that we are on together what's your perspective on that I like to build inflexibility I'm not an inflexible person I couldn't be to do my job but I do not like to have an expectation for the future that I can't realize with my everyday so what I do so that that I'm not spending too much time filling down

[59:59]  and out when my little [ __ ] didn't work is um I plan every single day and I also have a big plan for in three months six months a year three years um I know that the vision will get more and more clear as I get closer to meeting it so I forgive myself every day for you know um I try not to put myself in a position where there's like this is the path I have very strict uh policies around being flexible enough to Pivot and my team is expected to do the same so uh I like to have a plan a a b and a c and knowing that all of them could lead to

[1:00:49]  that Vision but also knowing any of them could also go away at any time and and it helps us to clarify which exact path we want to take I am extremely impatient um in the in the micro that's yeah I'm very like I'm not with my team always when I'm in a conversation with them one thing that I recognize that they've helped me to recognize is I'm way over here thinking about and planning for and preparing for that um and I used to try to I used to feel bad about that because they're in the day-to-day they're in the minutia they're in all of the things that I feel like would slow me down if I were in them and so there was like this conflict of like well you don't see us you don't hear us I do I see you I hear you and I'm over there my job is to close the

[1:01:38]  gap between where I'm at and where you're at and I think um it's just something that I'm that I'm learning every day is to you know not to get into the day-to-day in in an effort to seem more present but to recognize and document when I can how the dayto day leads up to the big thing you know it's like you're building a brick wall and you just got one brick and it's like I'm the only person that knows what this is going to look like when it's built everybody else is just putting bricks on the wall right um the more people the more I can use visual representations of what that structure is going to look like the better but honestly sometimes I don't know that's my that and that's where like my Humanity shows and I used to feel really you know um inadequate

[1:02:26]  about that like I don't know exactly but I know that something's up there right I know and I know we have to go this direction and I don't even know for how long but I know in the right now what what we need to do to get there um and I don't feel inadequate anymore because I'm like you know that's I run around here like an AI you know so if there's any flaw or anything about me that's imperfect it's that I just can't tell that I'm not a fortune teller I don't know exactly but I know that God is guiding Us in this direction or that direction and I I can see it it I may it may be a little blurry for me um but I always know what's best in the moment and I trust myself to make decisions based on what is to come um even when it

[1:03:15]  doesn't it doesn't make any sense to other people and when you have enough of those experiences you start to be validated by the reality of the moment you know when you're a Visionary and you are guiding the ship the people down in the engine room who are tossing coal into the engine into the steam room right they don't understand that you're navigating across the globe to get there and that's where I feel like that's kind of the biggest the biggest challenge of being a leader when you have really big audacious goals is you have to paint a vision so large that your team can find themselves within your vision and that in itself is an attribute and a skill set you have to develop and using things like data and everything else that we've talked about today as part of that but the best of them are the ones who were able to get

[1:04:03]  people so inspired I'm actually reading a book and you might want to check it out um it's called expert Secrets by Russell Brunson he's a guy who started a company called um clickfunnels huge huge huge business now and he talks about being a prolific leader you have to have a vision that is not mainstream but is just on the other side of that close enough to Crazy where people aren't going to Discount you but you can leverage your compassion and your cander to be able to say this is where we're going and it's those type of ideas that you can get people to buy into did anybody ever think that there was going to be a day when there was going to be a random stranger showing up at your house and they'd pick you up and take you across town safely our parents told us never get in a car with a stranger but somebody had a vision where they changed the way that we thought about things because it was just crazy enough that

[1:04:49]  they got people to buy into it and other people behind them right and so that's the biggest lesson of leadership but once again if you have enough of these experiences and you're willing to plant your flag around the corner people are then going to come around and be like hey how long have you been here that was my tele Health experience that's my experience now when I'm trying to get people to buy into the use of AI to create access to information so they can communicate with a trusted resource how they can ask questions and get them answered without the delay of hours that turn into days which turns into doubt which turns into fear we need to use technology as an accelerator to get people the information that they need we need to eliminate friction in doing that process because there's so much misinformation out there that I think there's an opportunity for organizations like us and you guys to be able to make a huge dent in the way that we perceive the world and there's a mix right it's

[1:05:37]  in there somewhere um this has been an amazing conversation today I want to ask you one question what have we not talked about that we should be talking about what have we not talked about um gosh I feel like we covered it all um I do think that one thing that that I don't hear about often on podcast or in conversations about entrepreneurship and Leadership is you know um how many pep talks does it take on average to keep you going um because especially in health care the work that we do is so emotionally charged and draining um and just the higher up you

[1:06:25]  go the more so right because now you're not just serving families you're serving team members and you're serving this organization and it's um it can feel very thankless right every now and then I'll get a card from an old you know kid that I helped 15 years ago and I'm like okay my my work is not thankless my impact is is felt but I think that it's important to remind not only leaders but people who are not in leadership ship who are maybe judging their leaders or who feel a sense of entitlement with their leaders just to remind them um how little um reinforcement and acknowledgement and encouragement we receive and I think it's important also for me sometimes I

[1:07:14]  have to remind myself when was the last time I felt encouraged by someone or something and to try to build that into my to my um social interactions or just ask for it when I need it um your CEO needs encouragement too and I think that we talk about like The Innovation and the big stuff that I think goes over people's heads but the work the emotional work that it takes to do what you love because of the very fact that you love it is so taxing and I think it's just important for us to acknowledge that work um and to think the people who are serving the people because it really is um work that is from the heart it takes everything in us to get up every day and to do it I mean any of us can go any entrepreneur can

[1:08:02]  get up go get a job and be amazing and get paid a lot of money to work at someone else's company um but the ones like me who are trying to do it for all of us who are trying to build more diverse and inclusive workplaces where people don't have to recover just from their eight hour day um we're the ones that that really need the encouragement because it just takes a lot you know it takes a whole village we don't always feel like that Village is behind us so I think that's something we don't talk about it's a lonely process and I want to talk about this a little bit because often you know part of my personal brand is I am very positive and optimistic right I've been called toxically positive by many people and when I think about when I think about those

[1:08:50]  individuals I'm like you know guys like nobody else is cheering for me here when in 2017 when I was in the midst a beginning of my tella Health journey I kept going to these organizations I'm like guys there's GNA be a future for video and nobody believed me and back then January 1st of 2017 I made a decision that the only thing that I can control is my mindset and how I see the world so I started hopping on Instagram every single day and giving myself a pep talk like hey guys listen it's going to be a great day for you you can do it remember just keep going right and by the time I got to 365 days I had so many people who reached out to me and they said hey man I never told you but I watch that story on Instagram every single day they would never comment they would never reply they never even heart for the instance of saying like they would never even do those things and the one thing I recognize as I was on the

[1:09:38]  gym uh as I was at like 6:15 this morning I'm walking on the cardio or walking on the treadmill after I got my workout done and I was reflecting on the 10 plus years of things that I've had to overcome in this Silo by myself and now I see the fruits of my labor coming around because I have so much conviction of saying guys I told you I was right and now people are starting to believe me that I started to get a little emotional while I was walking there and I was thinking I wish I had more people supporting me along the way you know and this is why I love having this podcast because when I can sit across this digital table with leaders like yourself I feel like we're a part of a Brotherhood and a Sisterhood of people who truly understand the challenges of leading from the front and always being the person who's sticking out your chest and willing to take on challenges and encourage others and lift people up and often we don't have that support system

[1:10:26]  especially when we're in such a big fight and it's really tough to kind of lean into that sense of vulnerability of saying like hey guys I also need the help you know yeah yeah I think you know and there's really no right way for us as Leaders you know team members ask for encouragement all the time they're like can I get some feedback right I'm not getting enough recognition um but I'm like none of us are getting enough recognition um you know I I'm very intrinsically motivated by my work but that doesn't mean that recognition falls on deaf ears or that it doesn't sometimes just someone on social media just saying hey I see you um I appreciate this you know I'm inspired by this or I bought your book or whatever just for me it reminds me of my Humanity

[1:11:16]  there's this dehumanization around black women specifically that we don't need anyone or that we don't need encourage or we don't need positivity and that we can just H you know produce everything on our own and I just think that it's so important for us to remember especially in difficult positions like leadership where we're constantly judged and we're constantly questioned and you know we are out here really leading from the front and we don't see anyone in front of us who's doing it you know and so the faith that we have to have every day um and the mistrust and the disrespect sometimes that we have to endure in order to build something that impacts other people um it just takes so much courage and I think that we need more reminders

[1:12:05]  that the work that we're doing means something and that it doesn't have to just be intrin just for me doesn't have to just because I'm intrinsically motivated by it doesn't mean that I don't need to know that what I'm doing is valuable to other people because that's the reason why I do it right and so I think we should talk about that more because I don't ever want to be in a position of power where people feel that if they're not like me they don't have the same um the same grit that I have or the same knowledge I don't want people to watch a podcast like this and go wow those two I could never you know they must we don't must anything we just grind every day and sometimes we cry in the shower or on the treadmill or whatever right K very true that's the truth um and I

[1:12:54]  think people just need to know that you know sometimes my team says or does things that hurt my feelings and I cry in the shower you know um going back to a place of humanity um and whether or not anybody accepts you at that version that I think we're allowed to bring that version with us to the table too and we we should be doing it because it models a different a different vibe for everyone else who feels like they can't operate at our level just recognizing what it takes to do it and the fact that l and I didn't think I could operate at this level either um and it does take take a million pep talks a month for me to keep doing it I think that's important for people to know because it's easy for them to see us as if we don't get like we don't get in our feels we're just doing it anyway we're

[1:13:43]  not our actions I say all the time I'm afraid all the time but no emotion that I have ever directs my actions I don't feel scared and that's why I didn't do something I just feel scared and I do it anyway but I want to be acknowledged for what I'm capable and willing to do while I'm afraid because that is hard that's where I'm doing the hard work and people discount I think it they discounted as easy and that's why they don't have respect for the work that entrepreneurs do and this is why the podcast is called heart and hustle because there's an intersection where we find ourselves where we have to have both in order to keep making it and that's representation for all of us but those two are incredibly important in that long-term success of what we're going to be able

[1:14:30]  to accomplish oh man this is a great conversation you know the last thing I want to do is um we like to tie our episodes together by having a previous guest ask a blind question to you now they knew nothing about you and I'd love to hear your perspective on this question how do you handle underperformers what a question um I measure behavior for a living that's my job it's such a great question um I measure behavior for a living but before I get into measurement I lead with compassion that's one of my personal values I I handle everyone compassionately I assume that everyone has a path um and a reason why they're underperforming not that that reason

[1:15:19]  validates underperformance and especially in a field where our families need you to show about your best um but I do make sure that I address or give the person permission to address things that are occurring with them personally that may be impacting their work and then we use measurement to guide them so that they're able to self assess the extent to which their personal things might be interfering with their you know with their work um it's always easier for people to see themselves from a place of objectivity and compassion and I think that that's using data and then having those like tough but compassionate conversations is the best way to to give people both well I just want to say Porsha James for everything

[1:16:06]  that you're doing for the people that you're inspiring for the grit that it takes to continue to show up for the challenges that you've overcome and for your vision for the future I feel so jacked up to continue to do the work that I do because I know that there's other people who are fighting just as hard as I am out there and for everybody who's tuning in and watching in Porsche James thank you so much for coming on the show seriously thank you thank you for having me this was amazing one of the best talks I've ever had I appreciate you and that's a wrap there we go guys