Purpose, Mission, and Power: Dr. Sheyi Lawoyin’s Global Journey to Transform Community Healthcare

[0:16]  Welcome back to another episode here on the Heart and Hustle podcast. Our next guest was just a kid when she saw the gap. There was one country with doctors on a call and the other with families just praying for a miracle. That moment it never left her. Today we got Miss Shay. Did I say it correct again?

[0:35]  Ola. Dr. Olu Leo.

[0:37]  Dr. Ol, I appreciate you. I asked you a question. We got to get straight into it. What's a moment from your childhood in Nigeria or the US that still lives in your gut and fuels your purpose that you still have today? You know, one of my earliest exposures to what I would have considered a health disparity was during a school break in the city I lived in in Nigeria. I I was helping my mother collect data at a local state hospital and we were at by the labor and delivery ward. So, it's a maternity hospital. Um, obviously there were a couple women in labor very clearly. And what struck me at that age, I was a teenager, was that you're bringing life into this world. And there was nothing around the mother that was supportive of that. Um, you know, God bless the care workers who I believed uh were trying the best they knew how to, but the ward was exposed. Uh, the beds didn't look comfortable. It was clearly lacking equipment. Um, state hospitals at the time and in that context, I'm very um it's very important for me to say in in that context at that time were typically underresourced and underfunded. And in most countries in the global south, so that's countries with less developed economies, there's usually a stark difference between care offered um in private and public sectors. Um you want the best of the best, you go to private clinics, but how many people can afford that. Um, so it was at that time that I I it experience stays with me because I it started out to started shaping the direction that I was going to go um with my my career um in public health and international psychology. I am right now.

[2:16]  So you've worked at places that people really dream of, right? the CDC, the State Department, but was there a moment when you knew if I don't follow my calling, I I'll really regret it. Do you remember that time, that moment?

[2:32]  Um, well, I'll start here. If you told me 20 or 30 years ago that I would be a health systems leader, um, I would not have believed you. um the idea that I the idea of that seems so far-fetched and so far removed from who I was um back then or even what I saw for myself. Um I know that I somewhat I was somewhat on a path towards a field of medicine. Everyone wanted to be me to be a doctor. I I I do come from a family of um health professionals and people in in medicine and and dentistry. Um obviously that didn't come to pass. Um I switched majors in college. Um, I did know that I wanted to do something with my life that improved the dignity of those who may not necessarily be able to advocate for themselves. Um, at some point I considered studying law as an option,

[3:22]  but I also had an affinity towards business, economics, and social sciences. Um, I took a marketing strategy in in business, I mean college, uh, my junior year in college. Um, that pretty much switched the light on for me. And and this is leading up to my my time in these other organizations that I've worked in. Um you were taught to look at a problem, understand the problem, perform an analysis of the situation that has led to the problem, and then provide informed recommendations. And as I was heading into um graduation, um the only other I guess um course or field that closely resembled that um was policy um health policy um and so I applied to graduate school um to study global health and policy, health policy and I got accepted into George Washington University. But that experience has taken me from you know working in policy think tanks like you know the Institute of Medicine in DC where I decided you know I want to go into policy and research and I want to lead but it was very important for me to learn community health right and work in the field at the ground level and that's what really led to to my time um in the Peace Corp. So, um I applied to the Peace Corps and um I had coincidentally met someone who served in the Peace Corps um and she was she's doing amazing things, you know, that stem from her her time in service in in her country uh that she was assigned to. So, you know, I decided to go ahead and apply to the Peace Corps. I was assigned to Namibia. Um lived there for about 2 years um and then came back and then started working at the CDC. So it's a mix of progressively a mix of community health. I'm learning what the issues are in real time in the field um amongst the people that are you know engaging the health system and engaging the policies that impact them. And then I also had the experience of the CDC where I was able to you know kind of switch hats when I had to and also learn from people who are doing doing incredible work as well. Um staying true to my calling has been of course is tricky. I think there was a stint in my career where I I decided this is right after business school um at Emory. I went to Quisetta Business School where I decided to, you know, go into consulting for five minutes and um

[5:56]  five minutes.

[5:58]  It it lasted about five minutes for about five minutes. Um you know, cuz that's what you did. You get an MBA and um I don't regret the experience. Um but I think it solidified the um that part of my journey where I I knew without a shadow of a doubt that I I wanted to be in community health and I wanted to be a health systems leader and I you know my trajectory had been um going along that way and it was okay to stay that course um and I've been on that course ever since. And now you're leading one of the oldest community health organizations, LA. Like what what what what did that community teach you that no degree ever could? Cuz you did mention that there was just so much that you you've learned from this organization as well cuz every job always say there's something to learn and every single step of the way. You mentioned that five minutes there was five minutes of learning, right? And now you're in this space where you mentioned um helping a a a pretty cool community health that people don't know probably um if you're not from LA exists. So if you can just kind of talk about it, what you guys do um give us some more insight on that, but also what did you learn from it that that no degree can teach.

[7:12]  Yeah. So um there's such a powerful story behind um Watts Healthcare's uh beginnings. Um so following the Watts riots in 1965 um a task force was set up called the MCONE Commission. Um and they issued a report that identified the root causes of the riots. Um and you know some of them were high unemployment. You know there were poor schools um and related inferior living conditions that were endured by black and African-American residents in Watts. Um one of the recommendations among several for addressing these problems included um upgraded healthcare services. So the history books tell tell us that most of these recommendations were actually never really implemented.

[7:52]  However, um um the Watts Foundation was born um a couple years later after after the riots to advance quality healthcare delivery for the Watts community. Um one of the findings in the Mcome Commission report suggested healthc care in the area bordered on third world conditions at the time and most residents had to be busted to other parts of Los Angeles for proper care. Um so when you when you think of that really um uh powerful story and also the fact that Watts healthc care is considered to be one of the leaders in the community health center movement. I mean we're we're we're two three years shy of 60 years old. Um so we're we we've been doing community health and in equity work for for for that long. Um, and now more than ever before, we're aligned with our mission to, you know, improve the health and well-being of individuals, families, and the communities we serve by ensuring access to quality and culturally sensitive care. Um, culturally sensitive because um, we know that health doesn't exist in a vacuum. There's so many drivers um, of care in the environment and culture being one of them. want to make sure that our the care we provide is responsive to the needs of of our community members. Um for those who are familiar with Los Angeles, we serve Watts, Compton, Willoughbrook, Southgate, Wilmington, Krenshaw. Um and we're well known across the country. Um so I'm really proud to be part of this organization. Um, one of the things that drove me that drew me to Watts Healthcare is um, community, very community oriented, very very community oriented.

[9:39]  I ask you, you've been in the space for a very long time. What what do you remember a story? Does it come to mind that makes you think, man, I'm happy I do what I do? Is there a story that you recall in your career that just allows you to feel like, man, I'm in my purpose? I think it's every day, right? So for me, I um so I'm an international psychologist by training and um which means that I apply psychological science principles to global health issues um typically the population level and within the population's context. So, I'm looking at ways to um understand and improve um the health and and well-being of underserved populations and making sure the health systems are responsive. Um I I go back to culturally appropriate and culturally sensitive. There is one particular incident that I it was so profound for me as I was, you know, engaging some of um staff members. there's a patient who um who wasn't taking her medication um for some reason and I guess her you know her team just kind of concerned about that and they didn't understand why she wasn't taking it and um decided to ask a different question. Uh the question was, "Okay, you're not taking your medication. What's going on? Tell us about what's going on in your at home." And and when we started along that path, uh we came to find out that she lived with her her son. And um you know, she couldn't take her medication because every time she had to to wake up um in the middle of the night to go use the restroom. It it bothered her her son and she was so concerned about that. So she she stopped taking the medication because she didn't want to bother her son. M

[11:27]  and the light bulb switched on for um for all of us um as we listened to her and we thought through a different plan. We thought to bring the son in to engage him in the conversation. So things like that bring so much joy because you're providing a solution but you're also getting to hear more about what's going on. And it's something as simple as hey let's bring the son in and um you know figure out a plan help him to understand what's going on with his mother so that um she can stay well. but also recognizing that, you know, families families are important um culturally, you know, uh people respect that and um they want to do what's best for them. So, I think being able to incorporate those aspects of people's lives into the care delivery always a joy for me, but that particular story out. you think growing up um and your early childhood really gives you the empathy to deal with some of these patients today? What you've seen in your past as a young girl and thinking of where you're at today that you think that's provides you that empathy to really help others and and and give you all to it?

[12:30]  Oh yes. Um a lot of that has also to do with the fact that I um you know I I spent you know I'm a second generation American. Um I am Nigerian um ethnically Nigerian. Nigeria is a country of my heritage. Um I also spent my formative years in the in the Middle East as well. So I was also a third culture kid experiencing um a culture that was very different from mine and my parents. Um but this was a big part of my upbringing that has played an important role um in my personal and professional development. um being able to understand um people of different cultures, being able to understand uh people of different orientations. Um the lens through which people see life is is is not always the same. Um and it's important to understand that. Um being able to provide proper care. I think now that I'm uh a professional in this in this field, I apply a lot of you know how I was raised and my experiences growing up and you know you live in different you know I just gave you a story of working at a local state hospital working well as a you know with my mother helping her um and experiencing um the local state hospital that was underfunded you know seen a lot of that as well um and wanting more um for you know people who um may not typically have access to uh services that would offer optimal care. It was really important to me um just because of those experiences. Um I don't know that there's any one incident in my childhood that made me go um except for these stories that I've shared that made me go um that made me just really learn empathy. I think it was just a continuum um across my childhood into my teen and even into my adult years just

[14:29]  learning people um learning how uh to support and serve people um I think that's just ingrained in me um from childhood.

[14:37]  No no I I agree life experiences wherever I may have been as you mentioned doing a little traveling and experiencing other uh cultures definitely will help where you're at today cuz uh that's kind of a melting pot when you talk about the crunchaw areas and the just the areas that you guys serve that is very a melting pot. So being having the experience you've had all these years, definitely you're the right fit to then go to Watts and provide that. But I also think that there's also something in you being representation to people that probably never would have seen someone like you. I think it's huge. I think one, you're a black woman, right? That's it. You're a black woman. And and there's already a stigma against it, but you show up and you show with so much grace, so much empathy. I mean, look at you today, right? like representation matters. Um, do you feel that you have this like almost weight on your shoulders to show up and and and be present and and lead uh with presence? Like where do you think you stand as a young black woman?

[15:39]  Um, you know, I I I'll I'll tell a little story. I I've been very fortunate to have had mentors and had people in my life who've um I like to say saw me before I saw myself.

[15:56]  Um they were able to see something in me and they wanted to make sure that I saw it as well. and you know they've they come in I've you know I've had you know my dissertation someone on my dissertation um committee was my first boss who said who pushed me to the forefront and said you're going to do this and I wanted to retreat and she pushed me and um I've worked with just amazing people thinking about my my time in at Emory Healthcare as well um I strongly believe that early exposure and early exposion exposure often to opportunities that will help young women of color see their future selves as key. Um my first day on boarding at Walked Healthcare, I was um sitting in a training session with a few people and a young lady who was coming on board as a social worker uh just kept staring at me and a little uncomfortable saying, "Okay, what's going on?" And um she eventually approached me. This is when we had a break. And she said, "You know, I'm from this area. I've never seen a black female COO before." And I and I promise you that as that that there was a shift u for me after that interaction.

[17:13]  Um and I became more aware of my role and you know and being an example and really thinking wow I I have to present this role very differently. Right? I want to do well in my job. I want to do well um for the organization and you know do well by the legacy of Watts Healthcare but also realize that people are staring at you

[17:39]  and staring at you for the reasons that this girl mentioned. I've I've had several comments even after that where people have shared similar sentiments with me. Um so being very aware I know that you know uh people say you be yourself. Yeah you be yourself but you also have to realize that people are looking up to you as an example. I think that's been very important for me to um has been very important to me especially since that day. Um some people may see the value in it some people may not. Um I share stories where I can. I make sure that um I'm speaking to um to to young women of color as well um when I meet them. Um I'm sharing I've you know been able to share opportunities and stories about you know my background with others and my trajectory with other people and I I I'm a huge advocate for that. I think that if people are able to see more of what their they their future selves could look like, I think it's easier for them to navigate um the spaces they're in and probably n navigate a path. And I want

[18:46]  to what you just said. You said when you see um young women, right, you pour into them in a sense. So, for girls that are watching this, what's the story you wish someone had told you about black women in leadership um that you can share with those that those young leaders, especially woman leaders that are wanting to get into the space, but also may have a little bit of fear.

[19:10]  Oh, yeah. Um lead with knowledge. Lead with knowledge. I um you know I I always make sure this is just part of what I do but um as as as best practice for myself and my work but um it's very important um lead with knowledge. you have nothing can be used against you um if you're able to lead with um the knowledge that of your work

[19:50]  um and the knowledge that you deserve to be in the space. If you're in the space, you deserve to be in it, right?

[19:56]  Um you're always going to have naysayers. Um I I'll give an example. I remember um early in my career I had a presentation at a um university very very early in my career. Um and I know I was nervous but you know I knew my work and I knew that what I had to share was important. So I I was fine. And I was being introduced a few minutes before that I was supposed to speak. I was introduced to um I was being introduced to some of the faculty. Everyone's kind of looking forward to me speaking and what I had to say. And one person said, "Oh, you're young." Oh, you look young. What do you What do you have to share? You know, it's like,

[20:38]  yeah, I already matter of fact like,

[20:40]  yeah, yeah,

[20:41]  I have like 30 years on you. What what are you going to tell me?

[20:45]  And I walked up few minutes before my before I started to speak and um it did affect me because I I fumbled a bit. Um, and I guess what I want to tell, you know, young black women and and just young women really, um, who has, you know, who have a, um, a purpose and a goal, who are able to identify that you will have naysayers along your journey. It's going to be that person that makes a flipping comment. It's the person that has judged you as you walk into the room or the person who has assumed they know you as you walk into the room. You're going to have that that just that comes with the territory. Um you lead with knowledge. You're anchoring in the confidence that you are you have a goal that is bigger than the space you're in right now. And that needs to be your north star. Um definitely my for me personally, you know, my faith has been, you know, a big big part of um just my journey and being able to just entrust, you know, that purpose and mission, you know, to God and um and letting him lead is is important. Um leading with knowledge.

[22:02]  Yeah.

[22:03]  You be the best in your area. Be strive to strive to be um the best in your area. Strive towards being the best in your area and and allow people to see that. lead with that.

[22:13]  If the Heart and Hustle podcast has ever sparked any idea or made you think differently, do us a favor. Make sure to guys share this, post it on LinkedIn, or even text that nonprofit friend that you just have. Whatever works. This is what keeps the conversation going and allows us to just grow this community together. Seriously, we appreciate you.

[22:35]  Yeah. I mean, I would just add on to what you say for any of those leaders that are watching is um one, know your worth. I always say that know your worth. You have so much value. You bring value to a room before they even knew you had value, right? And that's for you. You had value. Someone tried to take that away from you, but you brought value to that room. You know, I'm pretty sure someone took something away. But it's also never let someone dim your confidence. We work so hard to be confident. And you mentioned the word confidence. That's the only reason I tap into it cuz you have to have confidence as a leader myself as a male leader when it comes to us being I think a minority or even sometimes being young. People look at us and they almost get intimidated and that's why they do what they do, right? Because they see someone like us that comes across very confident. Um we we show up. We we're very um just happy, excited. And I would even share a story for another for for those that are watching. It's going to always happen. I remember when I was 22 years old, I was already a general manager and I happened to have a unique location. I worked inside of a science center and I will never forget how this woman treated me. She did not know me. But one time we sat at we were sitting in a, you know, having a meeting and I'm guessing she had an assigned seat. She was the only person that had an assigned seat. Okay. So, she wasn't there. So, I sat in that seat. I didn't know it was her assigned seat. I just sat in the open seat that was there. So, as she showed up, she's walking up. Everyone um kind of looked at me like, "You're not going to move?" And I'm looking like, "Oh, we have I was a smartass, you know, I was a little young. Oh, we have assigned seats." And then she uh she they was like, "Well, she normally sits there." And she's like, this is her response. I'm like, she says, "Don't worry. He's just young and immature." I looked at her. I said, "Well, at least I showed up to this meeting on time." So, you already know how she felt. Rough with the feathers, right? And I had to like undercover boss. She hated me pretty much to the point that she went back to the company and says, "If you don't remove him from this location, we will not renew your lease for this location." So, they had to pull me out, right, and pull me somewhere else. And and I I really felt bad be I felt I felt disrespected by the company. It's a million-dollar location that I opened up that I worked very hard to do this, but because someone else didn't like me, that they took me out. But that's how business is. But you'll have places and at that moment I could have just left. I could have felt bad about it. I could have felt all these different things. But I know who I was and I knew what I brought to the table. And I knew that it wasn't a decision based off my performance. It was a decision based off someone that didn't like me. I'll give you another example. When I was in nonprofit and people wanted me to be vice president, but the president at that moment, sitting president says, "I don't he's too young. We couldn't train him and mold him and then maybe one day." But he didn't know me. He didn't know what my talents were. He and today I actually am president because he decided to walk off and I was the only person to take, you know, take on the responsibility. But it it it goes to sometimes you just got to be patient as well. You know, God, you mentioned it. God is going to test you, you know, and you got to continue to have faith, especially when you know you're doing what was being called upon you, right? And for me, it was being a leader and it it was showing up even when people counted me out because you will always there's going to be certain rooms a man will count you out. uh you know someone a different race will count you out all because of his color of your skin or your orientation as you mentioned a little earlier or your sex whatever that may look like. So for any leader that's watching always, you mentioned it oish is to be um yourself. Um have confident um bring the knowledge. We are so educated and people already belittle us before we even walk into a room. But use that as your fuel to really show them, oh you thought I was what? Like add that into your into those stories and into those speeches into those talks that you give cuz there's something in that. And I'm I'm happy to see young leaders like yourself in the space where probably there's not a lot of them, you know, and and sometime may feel lonely that you can't call someone else somebody else like, "Hey, what are you going what are you doing through this situation?" Do you have that?

[26:39]  Yeah. Yeah. So, um any leader will tell you that it can be it can be a lonely journey. um you're learning you you're learn I will say you think you're learning a lot early in your career as you're as you're growing and then you become a leader at any level and you realize that you're you're you're required to learn even more.

[27:02]  Yeah.

[27:02]  Um you're learning, you know, you're learning how to lead people um

[27:07]  with grace and towards a mission. You're learning how to um to confront issues. Um, you're learning how to be, you know, make decisions. You're you're learning so many different things every single time.

[27:21]  And it's always good to have people you can um talk to, who you can relate to. Um, I go back again to my time at Emory Healthcare. Um I you know I look very fondly at that experience because it taught me I will say it taught me um boots on the ground operations and really how you know health systems leadership and but I also had you know mentors uh I had assigned mentors um and I I I think it's very important for me to say that you know mentors don't always have to look like you um you really need people in your life who um genuinely want to get to know you and who genuinely want to get to see you succeed

[28:07]  and you you want to remain open to those um opportunities. Um and very importantly, a good mentor, you know, shows you who you are

[28:16]  and make sure that you make sure that you see you see it. And I I've had um you know, individuals like that over the course of my life and even as I was learning leadership at Emory, I had that as well. Now, you know, here in this current role, it's, you know, sometimes it's peers. You know, you're you're reaching out to your peers and saying, you know, I just can we just talk about stuff, you know, you know, because you you walk around as a leader and you are I call it the burden of responsibility. You you have to process a lot of things outside of the current situation. Um you have to process things um away from you know people you're leading you know um you have to figure out the mess but show up you know you smile and wave smile and wave um you know that's a that's that's you know that's a leader there opportunities to be vulnerable and and to reflect that I think that you know sometimes people that look up to you as a leader need to see that the sense of that but for the most part you know you you have to display um decisiveness. You have to display calm because again going back to what I said earlier, you're a mirror. People are looking up to to the leaders. If you know, if my leader is scrambling, you know, they're going to start scrambling, too.

[29:36]  Yeah. So, um, being able to reach out to people, um, who you, um, have close affinities with, um, is very important because it helps to sort of, um, helps you go through some of these, uh, things you experience as a leader a lot easier. Um, I I think it's really important, self-care for leadership. I think that's really important to have that.

[29:58]  And you mentioned self-care. That's exactly what I want to kind of go to because as a leader, we all have that imposter syndrome at times as well. Um because no one's really showed us how to lead for ourselves while leading for others. So sometimes we're trying to pour in to somebody else's cup and we have nothing to pour into because we're exhausted. We're leaders and we have to put on this mask as a CEO, as a CEO, as an entrepreneur, whatever that may look like. So what does that look like when you talk about that self-care? Um making sure the mental is good, right? The mental health is so important in this space as well because you can start talking to yourself in in a negative way and starting to believe it. But what are you doing? What are those steps that you're you're you're taking on that really kind of help you get and overcome these these moments?

[30:43]  Um, guarding your heart is important. Guarding your heart is so critical. And what what do I mean by that? Um, once you open up the door, like I mentioned earlier, that you're you're going to have naysayers. You're going to have people who make these flipping comments. You're going to have, you know, situations that will test you,

[31:02]  you know. Um you have to be um you have to be aware of as a leader you have to be aware of you know those little things or those little I I call them gates or doors that you know once open can really derail you. You have to be aware of what those issues are and what those events might be and guard and guard you know guard yourself against that. Um I have some some people tell me um you know they you know they when they when they get stressed they take walks. Um you know they don't um there's certain things they don't listen to. Um you develop such a thick skin. You have to you have to develop such a thick skin because um people will have their opinions about how how you should be leading or not leading

[31:53]  and it's all opinions and if they have every right to to to have that opinion but what is true and what is um edifying about what you're supposed to be doing in your role. That's what you want to focus on because you know people are going to say whatever. Um, so I think guarding and making sure that you are you're sifting through um and you're you're filtering and making sure that those things that are actually going to build you as a leader and maybe maybe critical but will help you grow are those things that you should that should stay with you. Everything else is noise and that takes practice, right? That takes a lot of practice to be able to get to that point. Um, so guarding your heart. Um, making sure some people say, "Hey, after a certain time I don't respond to emails. I don't, you know, because if you're constantly on a go go go go go and you don't have time to to recharge or refresh." Um, sure.

[32:52]  Pretty much no work life balance.

[32:53]  Yeah. You're working hard. You You get to define what that looks like for you. Maybe there are some things you have to do late into the night, right? Um, but then you have to decide where do I where am I just not very useful after doing all this work? Where am I just not useful anymore? Not only to to to others but to myself. Shut it down and get back again to it. I think each individual gets to define what that looks like. Um, some people will say after 5, I'm no more emails. Some people say on the weekends I'm not looking at emails or I'm not working. Um, everyone gets to decide that, but you have to be able to to recharge and you define what that looks like. Um, that's what I would what I would say.

[33:35]  I love it. Okay. All right. I want to go ahead and um, you know, take this in a different direction. You're in a space of healthcare. We know that there's so much happening right now when it comes to government fundings in the health care space, and the uh, nonprofit space. A lot of people being affected. people don't want to show up now to the hospitals because of a fear of what may happen. You know, maybe uh ICE shows up. Um but then there's some people that are when when when we just come to like staffing. Let's talk about the staffing because we know that pandemic we lost so much so many people in this space of healthcare nurses um because maybe they felt overworked maybe they felt under uh valued but I think we're in a space now that people can come back to the healthcare space do what they love more and all the admin all the task on the back end is being automated by AI or at least some organizations are implementing this so what does Watts look like when we talk about AI is there something that you guys feel um has really helped you guys scale by implementing some AI. Are you guys looking around the corner and testing the waters? What does that look like in your space?

[34:40]  Well, I'll say more generally, um I think there's going to be a role obviously a role um of AI and health in healthcare um you know looking at AI towards um autonomation but also to help with efficiencies improve efficiencies. Um I think you know as we like every other you know health system ventures into that that space you know um looking at how to create efficiencies and going back to quality care making sure that you know we're providing care um value based care um you do want to make sure that you're efficient um and efficiencies look you know look like improving the workflow

[35:22]  you know making sure that patients or populations receive this, you know, quality care maybe a lot more quickly without a lot of the waste. So, I think cutting out a lot of the waste is, you know, where we'd be, you know, we'd be looking um as an organization like um most other um health systems, where can we cut back on the waste so that on the waste in the in the processes in our processes so that we are focusing on what is going to bring the ve best value

[35:53]  to to our patients. that's that's what we'd be looking at because that that aligns with our mission.

[35:59]  Um,

[35:59]  have you guys already implemented some sort of AI or are you guys just uh looking ahead and trying to figure out what's best uh to incorporate, integrate?

[36:06]  Looking ahead, you know, we're looking ahead. Um, you know, you want to be careful too,

[36:11]  right? It's uh you don't want to um jump head into that 4A without really understanding it and understanding um um how it what the impact of it would be. So I you know it's good good exploration phase right now. Um and specifically looking at efficiencies, how do we become a more efficient system and also how do we how can we be more supportive of our our staff, right? so that they are um using the system. Well, you know, someone once told me it's um it's not always a staff and maybe the tools, right? So, standardization is going to be really important and AI brings that benefit um so that people are learning to do you know the same thing every time to create the efficiencies that we're looking for.

[37:04]  Are you a user of AI like chatpt or anything? Have you been dipping and dabbing into it?

[37:08]  Yeah, I mean people people use I think I think one of the most common um tools are is Chat GPT, right?

[37:16]  Yeah.

[37:17]  You'd be surprised. I was talking to a gentleman. I was like, "Hey, you use Chatt DBT?" And he's like, "No." And I showed it to him. He's like, "Do you have to pay for that?" And I'm like, I mean, there's a paid version, but you can use the free version. But it is true. I think that some people are getting into the chatbt versus Google before Google now. But you'd be so surprised how many people I still talk to that it's afraid to put anything in AI because they just as you mentioned right there's a safety issue there's what what do I put what not but in the healthcare and the nonprofit space I mean to help you with emails help you write letters to other people like I mean I use it truly I use it every day like a personal assistant to be quite frank um research becomes so much faster you know so I I truly uh enjoy that

[37:56]  um I ask you one other question as we start wrapping it up when did you learn that listening is just as powerful as leading because I feel like you you're a really good listener and you're a really good leader and those are two great qualities, but when did you learn that?

[38:11]  Um, you know, I think listening is a big part of my personality, too. Um, I I'm curious about people. Not in a strange way, but in a way I I I I think it's really important to try and understand where people are coming from. I think the the worst thing is if if you can help if you can't, you know, can help is to is to not feel you don't want to feel misunderstood. You certainly don't want to misunderstand people. If they mean X, you want to be sure that you understand that they mean X and not Y

[38:45]  because it affect, you know, it impacts the way you interact with them and how you perceive them and you you want to make sure that you you have the right information. So listening as a leader is really important. Um, I think, you know, a mentor taught me that, you know, one of the the good signs of of a good leader is someone who's able to um sift through information that they're learning from others, right? And about who they are and leading them based on that. Um, I'll give you an example. um you know um an employee who you know you have an employee telling you um you know sharing stories about how they start their day you know they have children how they incorporate you know taking care of their children into their lives you're listening for certain things um you know you're listening to you know is this how does this person organize stay organized how does this person you know um you know how are stay proactive. You're you're you're you're listening for these things. They're not telling you. They're not coming and telling you. You're not asking them, "Are you organized or not?" You know, you're not asking that question, but you but you can listen for it when you are really interested in hearing their stories and what they share about themselves

[40:04]  and you're incorporating something like that and okay, well,

[40:09]  maybe I'm getting from this individual that maybe when they start the day, they're not particularly organized. um

[40:17]  I I kind of need that organization here. How can I support that here so that they're growing in that space and I'm getting what I need from them, get the best of them. Um sometimes it's, you know, maybe giving reminders to, you know, on task to keep them on task. And I've I I give that example because I've experienced that in my um in my, you know, personal interactions. I had it I it was made the difference. It was a night and day difference and the person felt so understood and um so supported and I and I you know I'm helping them grow in that area. I hope but that I am but I'm also making sure that you know it has to be done on time. So listening is not just about um you know it's it's it's really about getting to know the person and getting to know how best to uh lead them which may be different from another person the way you lead another person and that's really important um to know as a leader.

[41:21]  Yeah.

[41:22]  Yeah. When someone feels heard, seen, uh recognized, all that makes someone feel like they want to come to work more, right? Like they the loyalty, all that. So yeah, great leadership. That's why we had asked that question cuz I I I I I knew that you're going to bring that out. But I also want to talk before we head off into that blind question, get you in the red hot seat. You you've I really want to talk to the woman and all those women that are of color and they're leading a health organization one day. Um if they could hear your voice, what would you actually want them to know?

[41:56]  You are, you know, I believe that everyone is placed on earth for a purpose. Um that is the essence of of life and um you know that essence is making an impact on others and others around you. Um there's a lot of wisdom in taking the time to develop your skill set. So if you have a goal and you know that you want to be I'm going to say let's say you want to be a lawyer someday. At some point that was an option for me. I wanted to go I thought I was going to go into law. Um, sometimes I still wonder about that, but that I think that ship is long sailed. Like we're done with all that. But you know, for example, let's say you you want to be a lawyer one day.

[42:39]  Think through the skills that you'll need to get you there and that you need to cultivate to be the very best, you know, best attorney, best advocate,

[42:50]  and develop those. And it's going Don't rush. Comparison is is a thief of time, a thief of your emotions, a thief of your joy, don't compare. Don't get into the comparison game. Um if you feel that you are being um slighted for reasons beyond your control, um you know, based on anything that's innate to you, um test it first to see if it is actually the case. Um, you know, the last thing you'd want is to um to be reactive, right? You want to make sure that you're developing the skill of um sifting through your perceptions as well because that that will serve you very well. Um that will serve you very well.

[43:42]  Um taking the risks. If you see an opportunity, if someone gives that to you and that opportunity can come to you and from anyone anywhere, if it's going to serve you well, take it. It may be hard. I mean, I I took on a a task. Um, someone gave me a data set again early on in my career. Someone gave me a data set and told me I had to present it two days later at this mini conference and oh, by the way, you have to analyze the data and oh by the way, you have to use this software I've never used in my life. it. I had learned that software in two days because I was going to be presenting at that I was going to be there

[44:17]  rain or shine. So, it meant that I had to figure this out the weekend. I figured it out. I've stayed and hold myself into the room and I figured it out. Don't be afraid of those opportunities. It's was very overwhelming and daunting. I made it through. Um, but take, you know, take those opportunities. Um, and again, I go back to what I say what I said earlier. Lead with knowledge. Lead with knowledge. Don't lead when you walk into a room. Don't lead with this is what I look like. This oh I'm young or I'm a person of color or oh I have only been doing this for a year. Don't lead with any of that cuz it will derail you, right? Guard your heart. Um lead with I'm in this role. What do I need to know to be the best in the room that I'm going into right now? And that's what you should focus on. And people respond well to that. Mhm.

[45:10]  I love it. I love it. You ready for this blind question, Tom?

[45:14]  Okay.

[45:15]  It's pretty good. It's pretty easy, I would say. What truth about equity or leadership do you believe now more fiercely than ever before?

[45:25]  Wow. I I I one one thing I believe is that um especially in health equity um systems you want to build a I I'm in I'm a health system strengthening um that's my area of focus and I think historically I think we haven't really focused on context

[45:54]  um in in equity and health equity. Meaning that we um we haven't really looked at historical, economical, um cultural, social, political factors that really influence the way that a community engages the health system.

[46:12]  And I think now more than ever before, that's so critical. I think I learned that during the pandemic.

[46:19]  Yeah.

[46:19]  Right. during the COVID 19 pandemic. Um that that was so pronounced that you know there's so many the health system the traditional health system would have to die for and the way that we deliver care would have to die for us to be able to create a delivery system that um you know optimizes you know health and social well-being. You have to figure out the context in which a person experiences their environment in order for them to in order for you to provide equitable care.

[46:51]  Um, and in order for you to ensure that they are actually well.

[46:57]  No, I hear you on that. We could that's that'd be a whole conversation, a whole another 30-minute conversation really.

[47:02]  I was about to open that. I was like, you know what, we got to wrap it up. No, that's a whole situation that I've been talking to other leaders about. But I ask you, what is your um blind question for the next lead that we have here on the Heart and Hustle? If you could give your younger self one piece of advice, what would it be?

[47:19]  All right. All right. I love it. I love it. And where could people find you if they want to connect with you directly or what is the website for um the organization so people want to find out more in the area?

[47:30]  Um wattsalth.org. Um that's our official site. I'm also on LinkedIn. Um, and I I would say that's my primary well primary social media professional social media page.

[47:45]  Yeah, I love it. Well, I thank you so much for your time. Uh, I know you're a busy person, but to take this time and just really share the knowledge, but also share some leadership skills to those that may be watching. Um, I always say reputation matters. So, anytime I get to see someone like yourself across the screen of color more than anything in these spaces, it doesn't happen often. So, I always appreciate when I do get to see it and I get to just kind of um hear how you've navigated, you know, the system in a sense because it is very challenging, you know, when you don't see people that look like you, it's like who do I go to even ask? But, as you mentioned, just always show up with knowledge. And I think that's the best thing that we could take away from here. Guys, if you guys enjoyed this, make sure you guys do like, subscribe, and comment. If you guys want to see more great leaders, don't forget it's right here on the Heart and Hunter podcast. My name is Ephrain. This has been Oelli. Thank you so much. We'll catch you guys on the next one. Lers.