She Charges $80/Month for Unlimited Doctor Visits (Erin Kosich Reveals Why Insurance Hate This)

[0:16]  Welcome back to another episode here on the Heart and Hustle podcast. She changed major six times, walked away from a stable system and build a practice where patients cry out of relief, not frustration. What are the moments, Erin? What was that moment you realized nursing wasn't just a job, but it was it was your actual purpose?

[0:35]  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think you you hit the nail on the head. It just really when you hear patients just kind of gush about how nice this system is compared to the frustrations of the insurancebased system. There's a lot of reward in that pretty much daily. Um, but yeah, the the moment where I really realized that this was this was more than just a job and and more of a passion was in my first job in primary care. And you know, you just get a relationship with the patient and you really get to know them and you you're really a part of their life and there's a trust there and and that was really what kind of led me into this whole career to start with.

[1:20]  You you now six majors, that's a lot, right? Some people only go and get one. What were you searching for uh that nothing else gave you except nursing?

[1:30]  I know. Well, I think I realized at some point along the way that I was a people person. And so, you know, a lot of those were in math and accounting and some of these things that were necessarily not chatting with people every single day. And so at some point along the way I realized that I really did and a lot of them were in science and you know I did not want to do research. And so a lot of that was me kind of trying to take my passion of science and math and that side of my brain and be able to somehow connect that into a way that I could really get, you know, those interpersonal relationships and those interactions with people every day. And so it just took trying a couple different things before, in my case, six different things before I ended up here.

[2:17]  At least you didn't give up, right? You said, "Hey, I could I didn't find it here. Let me go somewhere else." And and that's good because you never felt you never got comfortable in something, right? You already knew like, "Wait a minute. I I this is not it for me." And you moved on to the next. And I could only imagine it was probably a challenge at time mentally to pivot at times because you're like, "Wait, am I doing it again again?" You know, and but you did. It all worked out. And here you are. Uh, and what's even cool is before you started your own practice, you were actually in a respected hospital. Uh, what felt wrong about that world? Cuz really you you you went out, you found what was wrong, and now you're implementing all the wrong all the rights to those wrongs in your own practice. What went wrong working for that respected hospital?

[2:58]  Yeah. So, when I was a nurse, I was a nurse at um at Duke Hospital and it was hard because um the institution is fantastic. I if you're sick and you need to go to a hospital, that's where you want to be, right?

[3:10]  But what I realized is that there's a lot of the hospital work that was really just sort of reactive. You know, by the time I saw patients in the hospital, they were really sick. So, they had had these kind of diseases for a long time period that had led them there. And I really wanted to be able to have that relationship with them before the disease had progressed to that point and to try to there's a lot of stuff that I realized we could prevent in that situation if these patients had just gotten um a little bit more intensive of eyes and a work up prior to the hospitalization. There was a lot that could have been prevented if there was a bigger focus on preventative help. And so that's really what kind of drew me out of the hospital world and um and into the primary care world

[4:01]  and and doing an amazing job now. Um giving them 60 minutes right when they not even getting six minutes um sad as it seems. Um or not seems but that's reality. That's just what we we live. Um, how does it make you feel now emotionally knowing like I was in a space where six minutes is probably all they've seen, eye contact, but now I'm fully I mean you even remember the kids' names, right? You know, right?

[4:27]  Why does that matter? Why why does that matter in medicine? And how are you feeling emotionally now that you're in this space of

[4:33]  making a difference?

[4:35]  Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, when you're in that traditional insurance type model, you're right, you're going to get six minutes with your provider and they're distracted and rushed and it's, you know, we have some really great providers in this area and really intelligent, passionate people, but then they're stuck in this system where the insurance company is kind of dictating how long they get to spend with patients. And so it's more about how many patients they see in a day and how quickly they can move through them and how many little boxes they can check and all of this stuff every time that you're, you know, in the room with your provider. And we've all, anyone who's been to a prover's office has experienced that feeling, right, of being rushed and of

[5:15]  not feeling like you had time to really discuss everything about your health and get all your questions answered and all of that. And so that's why when I opened this practice and kind of wanted to expand that time period that I get to spend with patients, you're right, I have a 60 minute most of my most of my appointments are at least 60 minutes. Some of my new patient ones are even an hour and a half. And so that's important because then you do get to know their family dynamics. You get to know what's stressing them out at home, what they what brings them joy at home, and you get to know kind of them as a whole person. And it really does make a difference in how you treat somebody um to get to know them and and you know everybody is different and everybody's care plan should be unique and individualized but you're not able to do that unless you actually ask them their preferences for certain medications or you know if you prescribe a medication that you have to take twice a day are they going to remember that? And

[6:12]  you know, it's it's one of those things that only they know that, but you do have to dig in. You have to kind of ask those questions and figure out what's going to be best for them. Is that going to be something that they're even going to be able to do? Um, and that's where having that long time and, you know, really that space to be able to do that and dive into the person as a whole really makes a huge difference in preventative care. I don't know why this came to mind because this is completely off healthcare but it it brought me back to a time when I was in restaurant and the service and really because you mentioned the service and how someone feels that's truly what makes them come back right when they when they when you remember their order in your case when you remember what you spoke about them to them last time when you remember their name when you remember who their kids are and and you just show that you care right sometime it's just that just show that you care a little empathy goes a long way so you're really in a neat face where people come in a little happier probably to see you, right? A lot more smiles. It feels like a great friend that you're just catching up with. Um, but I can imagine doing this, taking this leap of faith that's been going well for you. There's probably time that you're waking up at 3:00 a.m. as a solo founder like what what am I doing? Right. Are you Is those moments happening?

[7:32]  Yeah. Oh, yeah. I don't think you can um start a business and not have that like

[7:37]  true

[7:39]  um especially because this model is so unique. Um direct primary care is was originally started in 2010. So you know I am not by any means the original founder of this idea of doing things or this model. Um and it is all membership based. So, all of my patients pay it's about $80 a month from it's an age range, but most most patients most ages are $80 a month and they can come in as many times as they want. Unlimited visits, unlimited texting, unlimited phone calls. We can really really get to know somebody. Um, and because of that, because of it being, you know, a relatively new model, there are not a ton of practices like that in the country and particularly in my town of Durham. There's really not a lot of us in this area. So yes, there was a lot of, you know, me just pouring over spreadsheets when I started like, is this financially okay? Like am I am I going to have to close the doors in a year? Like what can I actually make enough money to sustain, you know, my

[8:41]  feeding my kids and and still be able to keep, you know, rent paid and that kind of thing. So I think, you know, there's a lot of stress and a lot of um uncertainty at the beginning. Um, but you we're getting in the groove of things now and it's going really well.

[8:56]  That's good. No, I I 100% agree. There's a sacrifice there and when you're putting the weight of your family, it's not like it's just you, right? It becomes easier if it's just you. But I hear you. When it becomes the family and you make this jump when you didn't have to, per se, right? Money was probably good,

[9:13]  but uh you wanted to do something different, make more impact. And I'm I'm happy that it has worked out. I really want to talk about though because a lot of people fear doing things alone, right? Um what made you say I'll figure it out anyway?

[9:25]  Yeah. Yeah. That's because I I was terrified of that and I really wanted a partner and so I tried to convince when I first started this I tried to convince an old another co-orker of mine that was another nurse practitioner and I tried to convince her to come into this with me and I was like we can do this together like this there'd be two of us. would be sharing a lot of the financial risk. a lot of just the you know there is a when you do have this kind of membership model and you're the only practitioner at the primary care office you don't get time off you know and so when I go out of town my cell phone of course goes thankfully we have a very very you know digital age so I can take a cell phone with me I can do virtual vis visit from the beach you know we can kind of stay connected and stay there for you know patients who do need me and so there was a lot of that where I tried to bring in a partner from the beginning and um yeah, it ended up just did not work out with with her. She could not be convinced. So, here I am doing it on my own. Um which it's turned out to be it's turned out to be really good. You know, a lot of my patients are really respectful of when I do take time off to be with, you know, with my family and um they don't bother me at night unless it's, you know, really an emergency. And so, you know, they're really they've been a respectful really really respectful group of people. I think there's a lot of fear in the normal environment with with providers because it's really hard to call a doctor's office and talk to your doctor. And so, in this model, they know that when they text me, they're texting me directly. And so, I will get back in touch with them and I will answer their questions and they'll have time to make sure that they get handled everything that they want to get handled. And so it does sort of decrease that anxiety on the patient side of things because they know Aaron will Aaron will text me back, you know,

[11:22]  and that's good. I um I experienced when my wife was uh pregnant and having to go and see all these doctors and you know how that is. It's like nonstop doctor's visits and yeah, she would have to call and and it wouldn't be the doctor per se. who would be the assistant to the doctor, the receptionist or somebody giving the information, transferring information and and what happens at some point it could probably be missed information as well, right? Like you got so much going on at the assistant level that you one doctor told you this and this person told you this. You might just be giving the wrong information but talking one-on-one it is always the correct information. You've worked with that patient, you've seen that patient, you prescribe that like you get it right.

[12:00]  So I I I can imagine it's probably Do you find it easier now?

[12:04]  Yes. Yeah. Much easier.

[12:06]  It's much easier to do medicine. Yeah. Yeah. And a lot can be handled virtually. And it's just shocking to me how much can be handled over text,

[12:15]  you know? So, they text me, they've started a new medication, they're texting me about side effects. Well, we can tweak doses and all of that based on kind of what they're telling me. Or, you know, I have patients if their blood pressure is high, I have them do home blood pressure checks and text me those numbers. So they'll send me pictures of their blood pressures, you know, and so that way when we can catch things earlier like, hey, this is not as controlled as I wanted. We need to increase your medications or oo, you know, this looks great. I think we're on the right track. You know, you can really in real time be able to kind of take care of people.

[12:50]  And are you still uh a a oneman show or one woman show in this case? Yeah.

[12:54]  Um yeah. Oh man. And it's I'm loving

[12:58]  I did end up hiring I hired an assistant and that was um a lifesaver. So I do have um she's parttime about 20 hours a week and so I do have an assistant that has taken a lot of the there's a lot of you know between getting we even though I don't take insurance we still have patients with insurance and so you know if we order MRI or something we still have to get prior authorization from insurance for stuff like that. So there is still a lot of administrative type paperwork in that regard and um scheduling and invoicing and all of that kind of stuff has been really helpful to have somebody help me do.

[13:35]  That's good. How many years in total have you been on um your own now?

[13:38]  I just celebrated my year birthday. So it is

[13:43]  congratulations. Congrat You know I say that because now you're an assist now you got this assistant and I think last time I spoke to you I think maybe you were just

[13:52]  Yeah. Yeah. And I just hired an assistant and I was just literally just telling my wife like, man, I it feels so much better that all this just small little work. Not that I can't do it, but it takes away from so much, whether it's family time, whether it's patient time, um, you know, client time, whatever that may look like, and I'm only doing 15 hours right now, but it's a difference. So, I'm like, my goal is to make it a full-time thing, right? We got to make more money, though. Um, so I'm happy you're experiencing that, too. and feel the kind of that weight off your shoulders just just a little bit.

[14:24]  Yes.

[14:24]  Um that's exciting.

[14:25]  Oh, it makes a huge difference.

[14:27]  When it comes to um you you're growing but but quite in that gently space. What's the line you refuse to cross in the name of actually scaling?

[14:38]  Yeah. Uh, so I mean I think a lot of this is sort of what I'm figuring out right now is and a big question in sort of these direct primary care practices is what's your panel size and how many patients can you take because you know in a primary care at you know a major one of these like hospital institution type primary cares they'll have oh sorry they'll have you know at least like sorry about that they'll have at least like three 4,000 people on their panel And at in a direct primary care, we can't do that, right? Because the whole point is to be personalized and know these people and have that time. And if ever anybody's sick, I want to be able to get them in same day or next day. And so, you know, a normal direct primary care practice will only have about like anywhere from two to 400 500 patients on a panel. So, somewhere kind of in that range. So, yeah. and I'm almost I'm getting close to the 200 mark. So then kind of trying to figure out yeah where that looks as far as

[15:43]  you know the future of do I hire another provider, you know, where where does that go? Because I do want to be able to provide this level of service to people and it seems to be a needed thing in this area and a desired thing. And so to be able to continue to be able to provide that probably does mean that at some point, you know, the next year hiring somebody.

[16:05]  If the Heart and Hustle podcast has ever sparked any idea or made you think differently, do us a favor. Make sure to guys share this, post it on LinkedIn, or even text that nonprofit friend that you just have. Whatever works. This is what keeps the conversation going and allows us to just grow this community together. Seriously, we appreciate you. So, so have you actually um also I know you said you're looking at to um that scale five years from now. Is there something that you would love to do five years from now and what must stay the same no matter what?

[16:39]  Yeah, I mean I think my availability to patients and my, you know, because I'm not overwhelmed by numbers and I'm not stressed out and these patients do have an hour of my undivided time for their appointments. I am able to really focus and really listen and really I mean they're getting a nonb burned out fully focused me and so that is one thing that I will maintain forever. So that's that's really has to be maintained. And so if that means that I need to hire another provider, you know, cap my list and then hire someone else to take on anyone past that, um, then we'll do that because that's I mean that's the benefit of owning business is that I can determine when when we've reached that point and when we hire.

[17:26]  When you you mentioned burnout, have you had that moment where you felt burnt out? And what h what does burnout look like in a space where you know you're speaking to patients? Is it just the workload? Is it just the things that you hear? Like where does burnout even come from? Especially where you say, "No, I'm happy." You know, I don't even know if it's happening, but just want to kind of for those that may want to do the same thing.

[17:47]  Yeah. Well, the beauty of this is that it's not happening in this job. And that is 100% why I left the last place I was working. Um because in that place it was happening. And so that's where, you know, it would just be patient after patient after patient after patient and trying to see, you know, certain numbers and at the end of the day and not feeling like I was pull, you know, pulled in 17 different directions and not feeling like anybody was getting like the best of me. And so, you know, to me, that's a time when mistakes are made and when things are missed and when I'm not that patient deserves your full attention when they come in. And if you're busy and rushed and thinking about 17 other things, they're not getting that. And so that's that's what I'm loving about this is that I haven't felt burned out once. And so the beauty of this is that

[18:43]  because I am getting more time with each person. And you know, we don't necessarily need an hour for each visit, but at least they know they have that and I know that we have that. So there's no rush, right? We're able to kind of talk. If they want to talk for five minutes, great. if they want to talk for 15 about one thing, fine. We have that. And so we can kind of really take our time and and I think that's what you don't get in a normal

[19:07]  kind of primary care setting is time.

[19:09]  Yeah. I I when I have my coaching, you know, I do coaching and consulting. So with the clients like you mentioned maybe they don't need the 4 hour but knowing that they have that time slot that is completely theirs acts away um like you know take your time no need to rush truly does make a difference you know for us the ones that are providing the service but also the ones that are receiving that service it just makes things a little bit easier as you mentioned the anxiety becomes a little less because they know they're not going to be rushed out of a room without having all their questions right sometimes you you that causes us to not think correctly right So, it's you're in a better place now, right? Just relax. You go in there, you create your own schedule. Uh, I love that. I love that for you. And I love that you're growing and and you're not feeling the burnout. And that you've now added, you know, not feeling a burnout and then you still added someone that's just like you're living the dream at this point, right? In a sense. So, I I almost feel bad for the coworker that didn't jump on board.

[20:07]  I know. I know.

[20:08]  Did you still do you used to have that conversation?

[20:10]  Oh, yeah. All the time. I know. I know. Yes. all the time. Go. All the time I see her. Yeah.

[20:15]  What is she saying to you?

[20:16]  Well, maybe she'll still join me. I told her that I was going to go make some money and be able to pay her. And

[20:22]  All right. I think, you know, it was a little hard to bite off that I'm going to come work with you, but I'm going to make zero dollars for a little while.

[20:29]  Yeah.

[20:29]  When you start a business, it's a

[20:32]  it's a rough uh, you know, for a working mother with kids to feed, that's a rough um that's a rough pill to swallow. And so, you know,

[20:41]  it is. And uh it's just not for everybody,

[20:44]  you know. It's just not for everybody. And some people would love to work for that private, you know, uh

[20:50]  doctor or practice. Um and people love those privates, but they will never do it themselves just because it is it is very very hard. It is. You have to be strong minded. You have to um I mean have faith that it's all going to work out through those dark times. I can imagine that you probably face some of those times where you had imposter syndrome. What the hell am I doing? Am I doing the right thing?

[21:12]  But you pushed through. So congratulations. What does it mean to lead with heart when the whole system is actually built to to break it?

[21:19]  I know. Well, and I think that's really where you you don't have time to do that in another kind of setting because in a traditional setting, you're leading by what the you know, the insurance company says we're doing. You know, you're leading by, hey, this person comes in with high blood pressure. we need to do xxx and x. And on this side, it's like, okay, but let's look at that as a person and figure out why they're have why their blood pressure is high. Are there things we can do to reduce that before we just throw medication at it? Because throwing medication at it was the easy that's only going to take you five minutes at that appointment, right?

[21:57]  But asking about are they are they stressed? Are they exercising? Are they sleeping well? Do they have sleep apnea that's been not been diagnosed? like where where are some of these other areas that we could with more time invest in and and even just small tweaks to what whatever it is that their lifestyle is. Can we fix something else or work on something else? I mean, yeah, sure. Sometimes we just need meds for things. You know, blood pressure sometimes the only way to bring that down is with meds. Fine. But to to really make sure that we've maximized all of that other stuff and to put like heart into that takes takes that time. And so I think that's really where it's it's just a very different way of kind of looking at health care and the human body.

[22:42]  And how about for those who've lost trust in the system? Pretty sure you hear that all the time. What's the first step um back to hope?

[22:50]  Yeah. Yeah, that's a very very good question and I do get that a lot. Um I have a lot of patients that have had medical trauma and so those seem to be patients that do find this um this model a really a perfect fit and I mean that is really on the extreme of the extreme scale of losing trust in the in the system. I think most people that you talk to out, you know, in the world right now have lost a little trust in primary care and then they've just had bad experience after bad experience after bad experience at their provider. Um, but there are a lot of people who have actually had medical trauma and so every time they walk into a provider's office and you know they tell me like even just the smell of the cleaning supplies and the hand sanitizer that smell those smells

[23:42]  and those environments really bring them back to that trauma and it's hard for them to get, you know, to even accept care and get care and, you know, they end up not going for years and not having any kind of there. And another thing that people have lost trust in is the cost of things. And I think that's a huge one is there's so many people, myself included, who have these stories of we go, we go for an XYZ complaint or concern and we get this surprise bill afterwards and we're, you know,

[24:14]  big surprise bill.

[24:15]  Huge. Oh, huge. I mean, I have good insurance and I get huge surprise bills. Huge. And it's just it's just shocking. And so I think that, you know, that's just not what this is based on. This is based on cost transparency. So people without insurance who have just been burned time and again at providers offices with these huge bills come in here and I have a list of all the labs and what it's going to cost you. And they're cheap. I mean, most of them are anywhere from like $2 to5 for a lab test.

[24:46]  Um, like they're very, very cheap. And then they know that they won't owe after they've paid their $80 per month, they never owe a co-pay. They never owe anything else for my time. We can do a strep test, EKG, whatever else. We're not going to charge them extra for those. Like everything is just so

[25:03]  either included or very cheap in cost. You know, we know what it's going to cost. And that's kind of part of this is for me to be able to tell them what it's going to cost. like you're not I'm not doing anything to you where oh no you know that's just an estimate or there's no estimates like this is what it costs

[25:20]  which is

[25:20]  I uh this story just came to mind just because transparency um the rush and everything it's actually pretty funny story so um I decided I was speaking to our neighbor he was he was going through his own um medical conditions I think he was having cancer he ended up passing away but when he told me that you know being a father I was like man I need to make sure that I go get my yearly checkup so I went to the same place that my wife goes to so she's like yeah still here. XYZ. Okay, good. I go in there and I'm talking to the doctor and it's almost what you say, you know, they didn't know who my wife was. They didn't know who the hell I was, right? So, I'm talking to her and she's like, when I say, "Hey, um, you took care of my wife, you know, Desiree, oh yeah, yeah, yeah." But the whole time she's lying. So, when I told my wife who took care of me, she's like, "Oh, that's not my doctor." So, I'm like, "Wow." So, she acted like she knew who you were. She's like, "I've never seen that lady a day in my life." I'm like, "Man, right. How embarrassing is that?" Like, do I want to go back to that person that just lied to me and act like she knew who the hell I was?

[26:15]  No. Nope. It's so It's not personalized at all. It's so impersonal.

[26:21]  You are a number in those systems and it's sad, but you It's It's so

[26:26]  But this model lives, right? This is not just a like you mentioned, I didn't create this model. Um is this do you know if this is kind of in every state? Yeah. Um

[26:35]  it is.

[26:35]  Yeah. So there is um if you are looking for a model like this, you can just go and Google DPC for direct primary care

[26:45]  mapper and they have um a map where they have all of these models. Um and I mean there's I'm pretty sure there's at least one in every state. There's a handful in every state.

[26:57]  Love it. I love it. And I think it's good. I think it's right educating the people to understand that there's better places than going to your normal traditional uh doctors because there is there is that fear of misdiagnose um you know surprise surprise bills you know and like we mentioned it's not little bills these are big thousand dollar bills. So when you're sick, you automatically think, well, I don't want to go to the doctor and get this crazy bill. I'm just going to try to figure it out at home. Not realizing sometimes it could be a little deeper than what we actually think. But because of the fear, the trauma, all these different things. Um, you are you are correct. People people are living in in a different place. For sure.

[27:33]  Even for myself, I had labs I had my assistant draw my labs for my primary care visit that's coming up. I said, "Well, I'm going to do my labs in advance because I know I can get, you know, the the cheaper price on them, right?" So she gave me the list of everything she wanted me to do. Fine. So we drew we drew the labs. We drew them off. My assistant had put had just put it in wrong as I was going to do cash pay with lab corp. Like she had not put in that the that we were going to bill it from here. I got a bill for $1,000 for my labs. And so we just we called him up. We said, "Oh no, like the the practice is going to pay for my labs." And we got the bill ended up being $44. So that I mean that's dramatic. And it was like normal labs. It was like vitamin D and stuff like it was not even anything crazy that I was having tested. And yeah, the cash pay price from LabC was going to be $1,000. I was like, "Oh, thankfully, like thankfully I got that bill and knew it was wrong and I could fix it." But that's the fear that, you know, people are really actually living. They go to a normal primary care visit and their lab bill could be $1,000.

[28:36]  Yep. And like you mentioned, the education, that's why I love having this conversation because you're really educating us on this. There's a lot of education. You know, sometimes we could have those conversations, but when you call and then you get transferred and you get this, like that's also part of the experience. Like all of it is part of the experience. You know, from when you call the doctor to when you go see the doctor to when you leave the doctor and all that accumulates on a bad experience, you know, for yourself, it's like when you go in there, it's almost like I go to the barber shop, right? You get that sit in the seat, you have the conversation, you just almost enjoy yourself knowing that you're in good hands. Um, and you're going to get consistent quality, um, and never be rushed out of this this seat or this office. So, um, I love it. I love that you found your space after six majors that you found. And look at that. It was like almost meant for you to be here. Right now, you have your own practice. Who would have known? Who would have freaking known? Um, so before we get to the blind question, which we're about to get into in just a bit, where can people connect with you? Are you guys are you on LinkedIn? Is there a specific website people can visit?

[29:37]  Yeah, go ahead and shout it So my website is um compasseldpc.com and then I have an Instagram page and a Facebook page. So um you can follow me on both of those and I do try to post some about you know tips and tricks about sort of how to navigate the health care system because I do think that that education piece is helpful. Um but those are kind of the the main two places to find me and you can just search Compass Health DPC on Facebook or Instagram and find me there.

[30:04]  Love it. I love that you're also on social media still educating. That's how you know you got time. Look at all the time you got, Aaron.

[30:10]  Right. Right.

[30:12]  I appreciate it. So, this blind question comes from our last leader on the blind uh the heart and hustle. Uh what's one truth about leadership or healing that stills uh still rock solid today that was just as true when you first started out? Um, I think that the thing that oh gosh, I think that the thing that is most true about this kind of leadership role when I started and when I am now is kind of finding the the support systems that are helpful to to me. So, like my assistant is amazing and she started out as my nanny and has now she wants to go to med school. So, that's sort of how we've transitioned her into this role here. Um, and so just finding those good people that you can really lean on and and knowing who you can trust and who you can get support from is is so key because it's not just me standing up here by myself. You know, my husband has picked up the kids from school more times than I can count. you know, I text him. Hey, you know, somebody wants to be seen today at pickup time. Can you get the kids instead? And, you know, financially, the support that I get from him and the child care stuff at home. I'm working a little bit later tonight to see patients and he's cooking dinner. You know, just really having those people um those those people in your life and realizing that even though you can be a leader, you can't you're not alone and you really can't do it alone. And so, finding good people in your life and leaning on them. um I think is just so huge and so valuable.

[31:48]  Shout out to a good dad and a good husband, right, for allowing you to to live the dream, per se.

[31:54]  It's great. I really I can't do this without the two of them helping me. And so, you know, I think just kind of appreciating that and being appreciative of those people in your life is important.

[32:05]  I love it. I love it. What is your blind question to the next leader that we have here on the Heart and Hustle?

[32:09]  Yeah. So my question was going to be that um what was the the challen what has been the challenge that surprised you most because I think I mean we know when you go into entrepreneurship you know that there's going to be challenges and you pretty much like mentally expect some of them and mentally prepare for some. So, I just, you know, I think it's interesting to hear what people think is the one that was the most surprising. I didn't realize that was going to be hard, you know, and so I think that's

[32:35]  I like that. I like that because there is, like you mentioned, there's a lot of there's a lot of success and a lot of challenges. Sometimes the challenges outweigh the success, but that's why you got to keep pushing. You got to keep pushing. Um, Erin, thank you so much for your time. Truly has been a a blast just getting to know more about this independent space, right? I'm going to have to look into it. didn't know it was a thing, but today I was a lot more educated. Um, thank you for, you know, sharing that website with us as well. For those that are watching, do not live in fear. There's places that truly care that are not just asking for the big paycheck. Um, but truly just wanting to help you uh live a better life, right? Stress free, um, anxietyfree, just giving you the undivided attention that we have not really witnessed in in probably so many years. But thank you, Aaron. If you guys are enjoying this, make sure you guys do like, subscribe. Make sure you guys do also just tell somebody they don't have to live in fear anymore. This has been the Heart Hustle Podcast. We'll catch you guys in the next one. Virus.