Strategic Partnerships That Transform Mission Impact: Shauna Ejeh's Framework for Nonprofit Growth

[0:00]  And so I went and spoke to the office manager and said, "Hey, like I don't know what's going on. I've put this order in several times. I still don't have my business cards." And he said to me, "Administrative assistants don't get business cards." And and so that experience was a turning point for me. Um so much so that you know I found my voice. So even though I was a shy only child, you know, I had to express to him, look, I'm not an administrative assistant, I'm at the same level as this person who has business cards and I have a master's degree, you know, like I like had to like go there, you know, with this individual, right? either I agreed, you know, and then, you know, and it what

[0:47]  happened though in all of that, you know, I eventually got my cards, but then I was talking about another opportunity at the organization and I ended up moving into that opportunity. And in that speaking to um another staff member outside of my department said, "Well, we heard that you're kind of, you know, you might cause trouble." And I was like, "Trouble?" You know, and so at that point, I was like, "Oh, I see how this is going to go in America." You know what I mean? Like that was for me the the turning point in understanding just all of the you have to work twice as hard, you know, like that was for me the real pivotal moment in that I am going to have to always speak up. I am going to always have to advocate for myself. I don't have the option of sitting back if I want to be successful.

[1:35]  So for me that has driven me that experience not only for myself and advocating for myself but really for those around me and my passion for advocating for children and families. Welcome back to another episode here on the Heart and Hustle Podcast. Listen, this next guest, she oversees 27 life-changing um programs impacting thousands of families. But that journey, it wasn't smooth. Shauna, welcome to the Heart and Hustle podcast. I asked you, I told you I was going to get you right in deep. Let's rewind. When did you first

[2:23]  realize this work supporting families and kids wasn't just a job, but truly just a mission? Your mission. Well, first of all, thanks so much for having me, Frank. It's an honor to be here. I, you know, love to share sort of about how I fell into nonprofit work. Um, I was a college student, had an opportunity to get an internship. Um, my degrees are in public communications and, uh, there was a shelter for battered women, uh, in Washington DC that was looking for someone to do press releases and work with them on developing a teen dating violence program. Um, and so I thought, well, this is really all I have available.

[3:02]  This seems pretty cool and it's interested. I've always had an interest in women's studies and thought, let me learn more about it. And, uh, in that process, they train you to do the work of the hotline. So, you learn a lot about domestic violence. You learn a lot about that network. You learn how it doesn't it crosses over socioeconomic lines, how it is really the violence against women in our society is an issue, a big issue. And so I had the opportunity to do press releases and then they just sent me out on my own to talk to high school kids about teen dating violence, etc., and get to know them and share resources with them. And so it was such a wonderful opportunity and so freeing.

[3:43]  Um, and then just learning about how how instrumental you can be, how impactful you can be by just sharing information and giving resources. um didn't seem like a big deal, you know, but it it's something that folks didn't know about. It's something that kids had never heard about. And so really felt like I was making an impact in just three months time of that internship. Um and then I moved on to get a graduate degree and had an opportunity to work for the American Society of Association Association executives. Um, and I worked on their fourcolor magazine because again I was in communications and learned all about editing and all of that good stuff and communication and it was wonderful. Um, but it opened me up to this world of organizations that you

[4:32]  know they're they do some of them do have money but they're they're really missiondriven. And so I learned from there like wow this this association thing is really interesting like you can work for a specific organization um and if you're passionate about it you can really make an impact and so my first real job um was with a fourcolor magazine and I did that and did some editing um and then moved into their international department where I was able to plan meetings and edit newsletters and work and look for people or work with people that really were passionate about um supporting two-year colleges and education globally. Um and we know that for women, you know, the more education women have, the likelier they are to have less children, to make

[5:20]  sure their children are educated and to be able to be lifted out of poverty. And so I was learning all of this sort of anecdotal information that began to really feed my passion around children and families. So it was really an exciting time. had no idea what I was sort of falling into. Um, and then my next job was really with the National Family Planning and Reproductive Health Association where I learned really the importance of women having access to quality reproductive health care in order to make choices that impact their lives. Um, and so it was really I spent 10 years there. It was I was very passionate about that work. Um, and realized that this was going to be a lifelong thing for me.

[6:02]  You just love people. I do. That's it. I do. I do. I do. I I love it so much. And I'm sitting here and I I smile because um you just literally bring light to a room. You can just tell. And that's why I say you love people cuz the first time I met you. Um I got that. You know, you seem like just that cool person, that cool auntie, that cool mom. Like that's that's what I get from across the screen. So I can imagine who you are as a leader. And I kind of want to talk about um this leadership journey you started really early on because I was just talking to mentioning to another leader that we don't have enough young people in the nonprofit space and the you know her question is like yeah why is that and I felt is because we don't talk about it enough right that's why these conversations are happening we're very like-minded people we're kind of in that youth space right

[6:48]  we still look good you know what I'm saying people can probably relate to us a little bit u but but I I think it is because the conversation's not happening enough so it's actually very interesting that you said you picked this up very early. So nonprofit, is it because you were just this very um curious individual and felt it was very different than the norm? Because we we're told, you know, doctor, go be a teacher. That's just the norm. But you completely went off something that no one was thinking. How do you get into the space? What made you think I want to be a nonprofit?

[7:18]  Wow. Yeah, I definitely went off the grid. Um I think it was really seeing the needs right when I when I look around and realized how privileged I have been and uh you know I've been able to access education through athletic ability. I've been able to I'm originally from Canada. I came here as a college student. Um and when I saw that like everyone around me didn't necessarily have those same privileges, it made me wonder. It made me curious, you know, and so then the work that I did at the shelter for battered women and their children made me learn how how do folks get into these situations, like what's going on in terms of the life choices that they're making or not making that might put them in a

[8:06]  situation that that that's at risk. Um, and so I think that curiosity is what really drove me to learn more. And I think the more that I learned and realized that you can make a career, even though it's quote unquote nonprofit, but you can make a career and still make decent money, um, but also really truly leave a legacy and a lifelong impact depending on what you choose. That's that's really what turned me that and my passion for fairness and and you mentioned, right, what what was the outtake or what's the return of investment when you give your time to a nonprofit? It truly is happiness. I I promise you not that any leader that I speak to, and I speak to two different I spoke to two that was very surprising.

[8:50]  Last week, I think I spoke to a judge that was realizing that he was um sending some of these young kids to jail. He's like, "How do I help though? Why before they get here? How do I go help them? He left being a judge and went to go work in the nonprofit space." And you when you see the guy, you could tell you could just see peace all over him, right? And he's happy. Uh, right before this call, I was speaking to a an attorney that was in she she loved it and she also realized like I think what it was for her she went through maybe can't or something like that. So it sparked you know the mindset a little bit and she she felt it it wasn't just about her and and what she was doing at that level. I needed to make bigger impacts. An attorney leaving you know these are highpaying jobs when you think about it. But when I speak to her she says but I'm happy. You don't get that in the corporate world all the time when

[9:38]  people's like but I'm happy smile in my face because I know that I made a difference today right so yeah you you you've been happy ever you know you made a good decision just let's start there you've also really you you put on a lot of hats you know you talk about communications you talk about management you talk about leadership what's that one role that shaped really where your grit comes from that is that's a really great question I will say so I was a college athlete so I share that because I so I didn't even realize my privilege in that I was a beneficiary of title nine you know me and my roommate were the first two recipients of full rides at the American university to play basketball you know I'm coming from Canada don't know the system don't really understand any of

[10:25]  that um but that experience of leaving home I think and coming here uh in a new environment and really um you you know, Americans are serious about their sports, you know, and and if anything, I would anything the coach would yell, my coach would be like, "You need to be more aggressive. You need to" and I'd be like, "Well, I don't want to hurt them," you know, kind of thing. So, definitely the college um athletic experience really made me more aggressive, per se, at least on the court. Um, and I think it it also relieved stress, you know, like I think the idea of that level of physical activity was really good for me personally. Um, and so that made a difference. But I think from a work perspective, um, you know, I my first job, I seldom

[11:14]  share this story, but my first job, I was hired, um, to be an assistant editor for FourColor magazine, and I had a colleague that I shared an office with. We both had desks and she was hired a couple months before I was hired. Um, and she uh was not a person of color. And as we worked together and I worked on the for color and then did some things for um her boss as well who was who was doing the uh newsletter, I came to find out that she made $1,000 more than I did. She was offered $1,000 more.

[11:47]  Then in addition to that, I had to wait months and months and months to get my business cards. And so I went and spoke to the office manager and said, "Hey, like I don't know what's going on. I've put this order in several times. I still don't have my business cards." And he said to me, "Administrative assistants don't get business cards."

[12:08]  And and so that experience was a turning point for me. Um so much so that you know I found my voice. So even though I was a shy only child, you know, I had to express to him, look, I'm not an administrative assistant, I'm at the same level as this person who has business cards and I have a master's degree, you know, like I like had to like go there, you know, with this individual, right?

[12:37]  I agreed, you know, and then, you know, and it what happened though in all of that, you know, I eventually got my cards, but then I was talking about another opportunity at the organization and I ended up moving into that opportunity. And in that speaking to um another staff member outside of my department said, "Well, we heard that you're kind of, you know, you might cause trouble." And I was like, "Trouble?" You know, and so at that point, I was like, "Oh, I see how this is going to go in America." You know what I mean? Like that was for me the the turning point in understanding just all of the you have to work twice as hard, you know, like that was for me the real pivotal moment in that I am going to have to always speak up. I am going to always have to advocate for myself. I don't have the option of

[13:25]  sitting back if I want to be successful. So for me that has driven me, that experience, not only for myself and advocating for myself, but really for those around me and my passion for advocating for children and families. That's where that grip came from because people are already trying to count you out from a long time ago. You got to let them know. You got to let them know. I I um you mentioned you didn't so much mentioned it, but representation clearly is a big is a big deal, right? Um which is why I love having some of these conversations. We have some people from all walks of life, right? And and just showing love to everyone. But you being one a woman, right? There's already a barrier there.

[14:06]  But then now you're a woman of color. You talked about some of the issues. How important is it for you to be rep, you know, a leader and represent what it actually looks like to be in this role. I can only imagine that there has to be some weight on your shoulders doing the things that you're doing, being in the rooms that you've done, uh being the first of many in in certain situations.

[14:25]  But how important is this to you to kind of showcase representation in this in this space? So, um, it's vitally important. I think, you know, for me, I work with, you know, we're such a large organization. I work for a varied and diverse group of folks. It's really quite wonderful. Um, we are under African-American leadership at Illinois Action for Children, which is which is awesome. Um, you know, but I think my commitment has been to raise all votes, right? To bring as many as possible. And so, I've had the opportunity to mentor teen girls, young girls. I've had the opportunity to lead youth through children's ministry. And I think it is really important, even though I'm not a teacher, to make sure that I'm when I can, that I'm giving in

[15:15]  a way that I can give to support them on their journey. even if it's for a short period of time, right? To be able to have that impact so they know, oh, maybe I could do this one day, too, or maybe yeah, I could, you know, or they ask me questions about how did you become a leader or how did you do this, that, or the other. And I think it's important to really make sure that you're making yourself available for folks um because there isn't enough representation to be quite frank. Hey, real quick. If you're enjoying the podcast, we first want to say thank you. And we also just want to give you a little insight of what we're up to at Francis. Some don't even realize that we're working with organizations to help them use AI to create that real human communication experiences. Whe that's actually supporting your your families, those patients, or the entire community. We're

[16:02]  actually creating tech that connects. Check it out. Francis.ai. You know, it's it's funny that you just said I'm not a teacher, but Right. And I think that I was just having this this thought to myself this this morning is that it don't matter if it was a teacher or not. We can remember people in our lives, whether it was a mom's ex-boyfriend or old best friend, that still showed you something, whether it's a good thing or a bad thing on about people, right? About lessons that we learn. So you being that small part of somebody's life could be what changes them for the lifetime because they seen a woman of color in leadership. She's so kind, she's so sweet, she's happy. How the hell do I get there? Right? So I I I praise all teachers, but I I always say

[16:53]  as a leader, we have to just show up, you know, we want to see we want people to do better and we want to we have to show them better. What does that look like? You know, so you're right. is is making sure that while I'm with them, I'm making the biggest impacts that I that I'm I'm leading, right? That I'm I'm showing them what a leader actually looks like. So, I love it. And you've been doing the work for 20 plus years. What's one thing you know now that you actually wish you knew then?

[17:20]  Anything coming to mind? Yeah, that's a great question. I think, you know, I just entered the sphere of early childhood about 15 years ago. Um, and so I've worked for other nonprofits doing different things. And I think if if I'd known the impact you can have not only on a newborn young child and their family, I would have done it sooner. You know, I think that's the only sort of significant difference. you have the opportunity to impact two generations forever and change the trajectory of their lives when you work in early childhood. It is monumentous what you can accomplish. And so I think that would be the only thing I would do

[18:08]  differently. I love that. I love that because you are 100% right. And actually I used to have a I still do a mentor that she ran a daycare. It was like a karate and boxing. And now those same kids that she used to have are now bringing her kids because they know she's a trusted resource. Nice. Right. Like that's what you're talking about is people understanding this a trusted resource. Like look look what she did for me when I was a young kid. I remember these things. Of course I know my child is in good hands and that is that's what we need right now. Community more than ever. So I love that you kind of talked, you know, on that. But I I ask you because you talk about these programs and everything that you're really doing. You're running over two dozen programs and probably more. Um, how do you stay human in the middle of all that structure? Like is are you even real? Are you AI?

[18:57]  I think I'd have more than five fingers, right? If that were the case. Um, you know, so so I will tell you this, there are are years where my husband jokes that I am an executive without a portfolio. He's in corporate, he's a chemist. And so, you know, I the some of the things that I've done I know I wouldn't necessarily be able to do without a supportive partner for sure.

[19:20]  Um but I think um and these right now are incredibly stressful times. I joke at work that I'm actually sour Shauna. We joke all the time because I feel like I'm always bringing bad news about what could potentially be happening funding wise for us. But I will say this that um and I'm a woman of faith. Uh, but I think even for folks that aren't, if you are passionate about something, um, I think that's the key to getting out of bed every day. You know, I think that even in dark times, if you have a passion or you have faith in what it is that you're doing, if you know that deep down you're making an impact, that's something to get up for. That that's something to smile about even in dark times. And I think for me that is that

[20:10]  is what keeps me going. That is what drives me. Having faith in humanity. Having faith that you can you are a part of the difference. Um 100%. I do love you. You on a roll right now. This is this is just too good. Sh. You is on the road. So kind. And you were talking about preparing all. Listen there. No need. We're having a good time. Um but I do want to talk about that that you mentioned is sour Shauna. And that comes from because right now we're in a space where the government is is changing a lot of things, right? And I can I think you mentioned last night we talked it was some challenging times. I think there may have been some layoffs. How do you process it as a leader like behind closed doors? What what was going through your head understanding that it wasn't a choice that you wanted to make?

[20:54]  It was you were forced to make it because funding issues that our government um has kind of put upon us. Uh it's hard. It it is really hard. I think, you know, again, as a woman of faith, I know that I am not in control, you know, so like there's a grander picture than what I'm in and what I'm seeing. But I think it's hard when I look at um how much good we've been able to do and how much progress we've been able to make and how many families we've been able to support. and then to lose a portion of funding that we know is not only impacting families potentially um but just our workforce, right? Like having those really hard conversations about we don't know if we're going to be

[21:42]  able to continue to fund this program and now they're looking at potentially losing their livelihoods. And so it's just it is heart-wrenching. it is very very difficult to one deliver that kind of news um and to share that um and right now it's only potential you know Head Start and Early Head Start are still in uh the budget but we know now Medicaid is getting ready to get cut and so many of the families we serve even though we're not responsible for that program they're going to be impacted negatively by that and so it is it is really really heavy stuff. Um and so it is important that we we think about wellness and we think about self-care.

[22:23]  Um and so even organizationally we know after COVID postcoid we've had a lot of uh stress. We see a lot of stress in our workforce, a lot of burnout. And so in our early learning programs, we've we've developed a staff wellness plan and we we've built these well, not built, but we've set up these little wellness areas so teachers can step out of the classroom and really decompress because we recognize the level of stress that they're under and they're now um really taking care of kids that were born during COVID, right? And these kids, a lot of them didn't have regular socialization until now. and we're seeing a lot of developmental and behavioral challenges which is really demanding on a teacher. Um and so just making sure that we're reminding people

[23:10]  about self-care opportunities, making them available. Um, you know, I'm leading an effort around trauma-informed practice at our organization to to make sure that we understand that some of the behaviors we see that are negative even in in parents, right, might be coming from a place of trauma, might be coming from a place of challenge so that we can better serve, so that we can be mindful of that. But most importantly, it's about each one of us as individuals taking care of ourselves and doing what we need to do to make sure that we are getting the supports that we need for our mental and emotional health during these really, really tough times.

[23:46]  I love that mental health and emotional health is such a okay thing to talk about, right? Like it doesn't matter who you talk to, mental health comes becomes a part of the conversation for all of us. Like mental health is something that everyone deals with, right? No matter what age, no matter what color, like we all deal with this. So, I love that we have these conversations more and more and and we're being so open about it and we don't mind having these conversations. Um because it is true, you know, you talk about uh I really kind of go back cuz I started laughing.

[24:20]  I also have a co baby. That's what we call them, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Wow. And uh my wife was a stay home mom. So, you talk about just my child not seeing and knowing anything, right, for the first couple of years. Um, especially my wife being a first- time mom, there's already like, I don't want no one to touch my baby, but now there's co out there, too. Oh, I really don't want no one to touch my baby. Um, and we're starting to see that now, you know, we have a son now and we see the difference, right? And then someone had to remind us, well, you guys had this child during COVID when you guys are all she knew, you know, and we're like, yeah, you're right. So now we got to try to get her in activities and making sure um that she still has that interaction with with other little humans um as well. So yeah, very important what you what you were saying. So I just kind of want to touch on that cuz I we're experiencing it. You know, I do know

[25:06]  what that looks like. Um and your baby internalized all the stress that you were feeling during that time. you know, they they're like sponges. And so, you know, there probably is some apprehension, you know, and so just knowing that that impacts your child as well, so that you're you're just building in resources to help them um to be successful, right, and to build that strong foundation for kindergarten.

[25:28]  So, it's great that you're reaching out trying to figure out how to get your child more involved in activities. Oh, got to I mean, she is a handful. Okay, now she going to be jumping off my walls, jumping off couches. That's awesome. a little gymnast in the making. You know what's funny is I always ask her. I like so what do you want to do?

[25:46]  We're trying to get that extracurricular activity and we had a place like I'm not sure that um there's a location where you're at but it's called my gym. And okay, so you're familiar with it. She loved it and we were going to take her back and she's like no I want to be a ballerina cuz that's what girls do and boys can't. I'm like well so I had to let her know. I said actually nowadays first of all girls could do anything. if you want to be a basketball player, football player, you go do whatever the hell it is you want to do. But even boys, you know, like you know the same thing. So had to let her know like you think it's just a girl thing, but don't be surprised when you see a boy in a tutu, you know, that's just the world we live in. And it's okay. You can't judge that person um off of it. But you know, with these little kids, you got to be very mindful, man. We just passed the house the other day and you know, maybe it was a hoarder situation and she's like, mind you, they're outside.

[26:31]  Wow, that house is so dirty. They need to clean that up. I'm like, "Please, let's keep it moving." Priceless out of the mouths of babes. I love them though, man. Kids would say anything and everything, but they they truly are a blessing. Um, you tried to modernize from inside um automated payments, paperless systems. What push back did you get when you're trying to really innovate and people don't see past today?

[27:02]  That's a great question. So, uh, certainly at the organization I had the opportunity to run in central Illinois, um, we worked to change our payroll. We ended up outsourcing it. Um, and that took about a year to really get that through. And I was the executive director at the time. To give you an idea, I even had authority and it still took a year, you know. Um but but I know that particularly in the nonprofit space the difference one of the major differences with corporate is that you do wear many hats you do many things I make my own copies I don't have an assistant you know and all of that um but that also means that so does every other role right there's not just one controller that controller is taking care of everything financial you know maybe submitting grants doing all kinds

[27:49]  of things and so as a result of that folks can gatekeep a little bit and I think what I am noticing particularly um now at a larger organization is that we are seeing a massive generational shift I think all of the workforce is um and it's taking a minute for dare I say baby boomers um and even some of us generation you know exers to really get on board with those shifts and those changes and so um you know in my role I've been really blessed to be able to be a leader um to is to start talking about it and to start thinking about how can we begin to implement things that will will bring us into the future that will be will make us more efficient and more effective so that we can focus on serving the children and families we

[28:38]  want to serve right and not have to focus on like trying to compile surveys from you know 500 different sheets of paper. So we in one of our programs in early learning we are really moving to go paperless and so that we're in the midst of that change management right now and getting excuse me folks trained on how to use our database. It was really only a couple of individuals responsibility to put data in the database and we did everything on paper and it and you know but it allowed us to see how ineffective we were we were being and how much time administration was taking and so the staff now has embraced it realizing oh this is this is much more efficient. I can now look up and see you know what kids are in XY classroom without having to call and wait for someone to go count children in

[29:26]  a classroom you know. So, so there are we are seeing small gains and wins as we as we do this implementation. I think as a whole though we you know we still have a long long way to go. I think if we can get this team um up to speed over the next year which is our goal it will really set the pace for some of our other or other parts of the organization. Um on the state level, you know, we we process the child care assistance uh program on behalf of the Illinois Department of Human Services and as a result of that there it's nothing but paper. Um but the state is moving to figure out a mobile app for families so that they may be able to apply for this funding if if they're eligible. um they can see all of that and find a provider and do all of that

[30:13]  without doing this 17page laborious, you know, application. Uh and so we know that that's coming. We're actually piloting that now with the state. And so that means it'll change our work as well. It'll streamline things for us as well. So we know over the next three years we're going to face these changes anyway. Right now, my goal is to get us a little ahead of the curve so we aren't feeling like we're trying to catch up, you know, but but it's just interesting because, you know, you have folks saying, well, you know, what we're doing now isn't broken. Like, why do we need to fix it? And then you'll have others saying, well, you know, why is it that we can't, you know, submit our expense reports electronically, you know? So, and and those folks tend to be millennials, you know what I mean?

[30:56]  Like, it's just interesting to see the the varied uh groups around the table. But what's nice is we do have diversity around the table which is allowing us to really think through uh innovation at our organization and and what's happening right now. I feel like nonprofits are acting allergic to tech in 2025. I'll tell you what I walked into one moment.

[31:24]  So you talk about taking over an organization. When I walked into organization, we talked about data. They gave me this. They said this is this is it. This is what you got right here. So, I'm looking through it. I'm like, "Oh, so we handwritten phone numbers in here." Oh, addresses suit. Like, I'm sitting like this, you got to be kidding me, you know? I mean, don't get me wrong, I look through and there's some good things. You can see that they were very organized. But you couldn't pass that on to me digitally, you know, and then I got to go back and then I got to, you know, create this CRM. This cuz data is everything nowadays, right? But it's crazy how this is a 30-year-old organization and this is what was given to me was like two three binders. I went to the school and I looked through all these boxes and it was I was very surprised on how everything was just handwritten. And even when I went to an event maybe a year or two years ago when they were trying to collect uh emails,

[32:13]  they weren't letting people just write it down. I'm like they could just scan it and do it on their phones because everyone has access to their their phones, right? Why do you think that we're in a space where nonprofits feel allergic or acting allergic to tech in 2025? I I honestly believe it's generational. I believe, you know, the baby boomers, even in corporate, are still running the show uh for the most part. And I think I think that's a large part of it. Um I think there is um a a real fear about um their ability to control data if if they I I don't know. I don't want to say move from paper, but you know, there's just a lack of understanding about how valuable it is to use all of these modern systems to help you better operate, right? We know that if we're

[33:02]  able to get pertinent information in data systems, we can actually run reports that show us how we're doing in everything from uh family engagement, customer service, uh financially, you know, it's every piece, marketing, how many people are going to our website, how many people are looking at our social media, and and I will give a shout out to our marketing team. they do know that they are they're probably the ones leading the charge um in that regard and try in terms of trying to get us even attuned to social media. But I think that um there's a real lack of understanding of the value of of of the data um and how you can look at trends to better drive your business. Even as a nonprofit, you know, often we work to

[33:50]  please our funders, even though we're working to create impact and there is not an understanding that there's an opportunity to streamline and even have greater impact if we learn and understand how to read data, what data should we be collecting and how do we analyze uh and look at trends and I think that's a skill that really needs to be honed in the nonprofit sector.

[34:14]  Okay, Craig, I got another question for you. How about this? I don't know if you ever experienced this in your life, but there's an idea of wait your turn when it comes to leadership, right? Yeah. I've heard that and I don't know if you've heard it. Uh have you ever had to politely but firmly say no, no, no, no.

[34:30]  My time, my turn, my time is now. Um that is um a great question. So I think um I think for me not so much Well, that's a lie. I was just thinking about that. There was one organization where I came in as uh um I think I came in as a manager and I really should have been no I came in as a director and it turns and they had no VP of meetings and expositions and I really should have been in that role but I applied for the director I got hired for the director and that other position was vacant and so I ended up doing all the work pretty much and then they hired someone who was quite frankly less competent also not a person of color And um and then I had to create a lot of

[35:17]  workarounds to work with this person. You know, I did my best, but I it turns out that there was some intimidation factors, you know, related to us. I had to say, "Look, I don't want your job. Like, it's okay." You know, like there was just all like she wouldn't give me information that I needed to do my role.

[35:32]  It was just it was just it was ugly. And she ended up getting let go. And they were like, "What are we going to do?" And um and then I was like, "Well, I" and at this point I was having a baby. So, I said, "You know what?" I said, "I think I should have this role and I'll do this until my family relocates." And so, um, I was given the role and and and I did a great job of preparing them for the next meeting until they could transition, you know, to have someone else come on board and I could move out. And normally, I would not have done that. Um, but after experiencing this individual and realizing, wait a minute, I absolutely should have had this role. I have better leadership skills. You know, it sometimes it takes that negative experience to realize all that you bring to the table.

[36:19]  And um yeah, and so that that's what I do agree. What would you say to someone, say a 30-year-old version of yourself um well, let's just say a 30-year-old in in general, right, walks into a boardroom where where no one looks like them. What advice do you provide? I say make sure you go and find out everyone who is in that room. Shake hands, make eye contact, say who you are. Fake it till you make it if you're nervous, right? Talk about who you are and why you're there to let them know that you're confident in why you're in that room and that you are bringing something to the table. I think that is so very important that people know from the outset that you have the confidence to do the work and you expect that your voice will be heard.

[37:08]  Love it. That is true though. I confidence and that's where people lack, right? And that's why people kind of stay in the same roles at times because it's not that they're not fit for that role because they are. We kind of talked about where sometimes we're overlooked. I'll tell you what, I I commend anyone that went and got an education and got a piece of paper, but you cannot tell me that that piece of paper outworks experience, right? So, I was a 19-year-old young man that had so much drive and I spent eight years with a company and then someone that just came out with a four-year bachelor's degree in business management gets the position over me, right? like I work I circles around this person, you know, but that's just kind of where space that we're in at times,

[37:56]  right? Um depending who's a leader because I could I could imagine if there was a different leader, they would have see it completely different, right? Like look at the eight years of experience versus someone that just came in and we're just giving them the supervisor position, but this person managed million-dollar locations and did XYZ. Um so I I I hear you on that confidence.

[38:13]  I'll tell you another one that I walked into. I will never forget this lady, man. She was so rude, but she uh walked in. Okay. She was not a woman of color. She uh walked in with her her binder and um every Tuesday we had a meeting and our I work for a restaurant, but our location was a little unique because we were the food court. So, I happened to still haven't show up to this meeting even though I didn't work for them.

[38:33]  Whatever. I showed up and I showed up on time. This lady was late. Okay. So, I sat in the seat, the seat that was empty. It happened to be at the head of the table, right? I wasn't wanting to sit at the head of the table. was just empty. So, I sat there, right? She uh pulls she she walk she's walking up and everybody kind of like look at her and look at me and they must know something's going to go on and I'm sitting here like she says um and that's like oh that's her seat and I said oh I'm so sorry maybe I was a little but I'm so sorry I didn't know we had assigned seats.

[39:07]  Her response was oh don't worry he's just young and immature. I said, "Well, at least I showed up to the meeting on time." Like, like sometimes you have to have these conversations, right? Because you know what? People will talk to you any kind of way. Very true. Because you're young, because you have color, because you you act different, because you look different, because you talk different.

[39:32]  I've seen that happen. I I I was in Jamaica. I'll tell you another story where you have to have confidence who you are and just do not allow people to get to you. I was in Jamaica and this uh woman was helping me in the family, really nice lady, and the husband um was so upset at his kids, nothing that she did, but more of his kids were just kind of all over the place. He was a little upset. So she he asked her a question and she obviously didn't get the answer.

[39:55]  He didn't get the answer she wanted. He says, "That's why this country is poor and you guys would like and I'm saying like where did I come from?" Wow. So I had to look at her and say, "Listen, as an American, that's not how we talk." But people will look at you and talk down to you. But you got to have confidence and know listen I don't care what someone got to say.

[40:13]  You know I know who I am and believe in yourself. Have faith in who you are. Sometime it does take time. It take those moments that where someone you know got to kind of try it for you the confidence to show up. But I I would say anyone that is listening as a leader yeah just show up always authentically you. Umant and know that listen when people don't want you in the room that's okay. There's other rooms.

[40:32]  There's other tables that you can go sit at that will right especially in the nonprofit space that will embrace good leadership. Can I just say one thing related to that? Sometimes people may not want you in the room but maybe they're the ones in the wrong room. Come on now Sean. Especially as time ain't no fight drop it.

[40:52]  I love it. That is so good. All right. All right. All right. So let's talk biopic leadership. Okay. What are we losing every time an emerging leader walks away from from this work? Wow. Um, brilliance, innovation, the next big idea or the next big problem being solved potentially. Uh, you know, we might be losing out on someone who has an idea to solve world hunger, to solve poverty. Um, you know, there's just there's just we live in a society where we waste so much and I don't think we understand what we're losing when we let young people uh walk out the door. And I think even when you shared your example of how

[41:42]  they hired someone with a degree rather than promote you in your role, like what a missed opportunity, right? you'd already given, you were already committed to the organization, who knows how long that outsider would have lasted, but the idea that they didn't take the time to invest in you based on what you'd already committed and done is, you know, that's a loss for them.

[42:06]  That's a huge loss for them. And so I think it's I just think as as leaders it's really important to look at who's around us and really be um intuitive as to who's really giving and committed and passionate and then it's our role as leaders to figure out how to bring them to where they want to go you know and I think it is our job to constantly be replacing ourselves. I think one of our one of our teammates said the other day, that is our role as leaders to figure out how do we raise up as many as possible because it it it takes a village, right? It takes a community um to meet the needs.

[42:44]  I was going to add to what you said that that just stems though from a good leader. A good leader has to see that, right? And a lot of times you'll see that in a good leader that would hate to hire from the outside when we can hire from the inside and have so much talent, especially when the organization is so so big. Um, it always bothered me, man, when I was when I was able to see that.

[43:02]  And it's usually what happens, right, is that someone comes over and it's like, I'm bringing my whole posi with me and and that's how people kind of get into those spaces. And that's like now you have all good talent just leave other places where you had a team in front of you and you didn't even see it. Yeah. Right. You didn't even take the time to figure it out. So, I I love that you actually um added that in there. I can't even believe how long we've been talking. 40 minutes and I'm sitting like, "Wait a minute. We got to start wrapping this up." Okay. We got things to do though.

[43:29]  Well, I don't. Maybe you got some things to do. But I I do truly appreciate what you've um done. And thus far, you still got so much work. I can only tell you feel like you look like you got another 20, 30 years. Your energy level is I don't know about that. What's What's one message you give to someone who's um tired of fighting the system but still believes in the work?

[43:53]  You know, there are many ways that we can give back. I think there are times um that we can feel burnout particularly in the nonprofit sector and um we can sort of feel like we're washed and brushed up and dried out. I think it's important to be able to step back and get refreshed and renew your passion, but there are always other ways you can give. And so I think I appreciate what you shared about the judge who was like, you know what, I need to go help over here because I realize I can make a difference. You know, I think sometimes we can be really close-minded and think this is all we can do or I've spent my whole life doing only this and therefore I don't have transferable skills. And

[44:41]  the one thing I will say about working in nonprofits is your skills are often way more abundant than those in corporate because you've had to wear so many hats. And so never sell yourself short. Um, and recognize that it again it's okay to step back, but try to do self-care now so you never get to that point.

[45:02]  Like know yourself and when you are burning out so you step back before you get to that point, right? And and do what you need to do to renew and refresh. And I think that's a newer lesson that we're learning outside of COVID to really take care of ourselves because it's important. We want to be here a long time and we want to be giving back a long time.

[45:21]  100%. And for those of of us who want to support or even work where organizations like Illinois's Action for Children, what where should we start? Social media, give your Instagram websites, talk about it. So, absolutely. I think um you know, we started as an advocacy organization and so we are always doing work uh on behalf of children and families in the state of Illinois. We're always we're working with legislators. We're we actually just came from a press conference that city of Chicago is investing $7 million towards compensation for childare workers throughout the city. Um they anticipate supporting about 3,000 workers. And you know, I had the opportunity to testify before city council last fall. This has been a hardearned uh fight to really elevate the need for childcare workers to at

[46:11]  least get a living wage. um you know and so there's a lot of good work that's happening but it takes all voices to come together to understand what the needs are and to really advocate uh for those needs and folks can do everything from looking up our organization on social media uh and obviously giving we we always take we always take dollars the work is always there we always need more support for sure but there are other ways to give we have an e advocate uh newsletter that folks can keep uh you know keep a breast of kind of what's happening, what's impacting child care here in the state of Illinois. We also have um we operate the we the village coalition which is a coalition of parents and child care providers and advocates really working together to talk about the the importance of

[46:59]  supporting the workforce that's behind the workforce and providing children with afford families with affordable accessible child care where they live. And so, um, there are there are many ways, um, that folks can learn more about us, but I think with nonprofits, you know, we look for volunteers occasionally. I think most nonprofits do. They're in they're in the the work of of using people however they come to us uh, to make the most of it. And so, if you just want to get your your feet wet, you can serve on a board if you if you um, if you'd like to do that. You can figure out volunteer opportunities.

[47:35]  And, of course, you can always always give money. Love it. Time for that blind question. You ready? I am ready. If I give you 30 days off, fully paid, no laptop, no work talk, where do you go? Who would you take? And what would you do that no one expects from you? Wow, that's a fabulous question. Um, so recently Tahiti came to mind. You know how you joke about I want to go to Tahiti? I was like, you know, where did that dream ever go? So I I would love to do that. I've never been um I've never been east, so I would love to be able to do that. Maybe explore some of Asia. Um I think in terms of something that would surprise folks, I think I would also take some time and maybe build something. I joke that um if I wasn't doing this, I'd be a carpenter.

[48:26]  And so just learning how to use different saws is something I have been angling to do and figuring out when when will I do this? And so I'd probably take a week and maybe do, you know, like a little Home Depot class or like a little carpentry class to learn how to do that as well. But I would definitely be in on the rest of relaxation and exploring a new beautiful scene. That would be And who who are you taking? Who's the lucky person?

[48:49]  I guess I'd take my husband. I'd let him come along, but I guess he would be bitter if I took one of the children. So I would absolutely uh bring my husband along as well. You know, it's funny that you mentioned um doing something different, right? My best friend, she was in the dental world for so many years. It just kind of got drained, right? Like uh being overlooked as we mentioned, you know, opening up these new offices and whenever they didn't need her, they would just get rid of her. That's just kind of what it looked like, right? Yeah.

[49:19]  So, um she then moved to Arizona, from Boston to Arizona, knew nothing in Arizona, tried to get a a job at a hospital. And same thing happened before 90 days. She done painted this office, organized his office, like the money was making the office making money before 90 days. They let her go and because because she was holding the the uh doctor accountable, the dentist accountable like, "Hey, like we can make more money, but you're like not working with us."

[49:43]  Wow. The doctor didn't like that. So then kind of spoke to the third party, whoever, and that's it, right? So, um Oh, she's in she's in fear. She's like, "What the hell do I do next?" She goes to I forgot what the website is app. But she starts organizing people's homes and now she does that for a living and she's like I'm building shelves. She just redid her kitchen and she's she's like I'm doing all these tools I didn't even know that I you know I had but now she's working for herself and again happier right because of different things. But it's like man how crazy is it goes back to we want to know why people can't come to work. Well stop treating people like they don't matter like you know that's why they not want to come to work right.

[50:20]  Um so anyway I thank you so much. I appreciate a matter of fact, I almost forgot. You got to ask the blind question before we go. Put your I don't know if this is a good one now after you ask that one, but I think my thing would be if there's one thing or one um experience that you could do over what would it be?

[50:42]  Okay, that's actually really good. Oh man, you're gonna make me think offline like what what was that experience? Okay, I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Guys, if you guys if you guys enjoyed this podcast, if you guys enjoy these conversations, um sharing, right? That's what makes a difference. Make sure to tag another leader in the in the comment section, someone that may need to hear this. Maybe just a not maybe not another leader, tag another youth that loves to give back and they don't even know the nonprofit worlds exist. All right, you guys can hear from Shauna herself that there is just so much passion. There's so much need. Um, we need people with drive, with that same grit that Shauna has continued to bring for the 20 plus years. Um, make sure that you guys do connect with Shauna. Sha, you on LinkedIn, by the way?

[51:22]  I am. I'm there. Okay. Make sure you guys connect with Shauna on LinkedIn as well, okay? She loves to have conversations and talk to people. But Shauna, thank you so much. It has been a pleasure, guys. Make sure that you guys go ahead and subscribe. My name is Era. This has been Shauna Hard and Hustle Podcast. We'll catch you guys on the next one. What is you?