The Children's Village CEO Jeremy Kohomban: Relationships Heal More Than Any Program Ever Could

[0:00]  Our next guest walked into a group home during ROC training, expecting one or two kids, but 14 teenage boys met him. That's when he felt if he didn't fight now, then we're too late. Jeremy, thank you so much for the fight, man. You're still continuing that fight, my brother. And there's been a lot of fighting. Could we kind of start, you know, at the beginning? You have all these nice plaques and looks like, you know, nice awards. Could we talk about it, man? Where do they all come from?

[0:41]  Um, they're memories. I I like to surround myself with uh good memories of things that have happened. uh got some uh some work in DC, some recognitions of the work we do together.

[0:59]  Um you got you got to celebrate the wins.

[1:02]  Yeah,

[1:02]  you have to.

[1:03]  It's hard. It's hard sometimes though, right?

[1:05]  It is hard, but you got to you got to celebrate the win.

[1:10]  Yeah, it's it's easier said than done. And we just talked offline. I think that's one of the biggest things that I forget sometimes is that I'm go go go go. And as you mentioned, sometimes having to remember the past. Matter of fact, I'll tell you a little to the story of the Hardy Boys that we where we were started at. So all that happened, right? And I'm so excited. I made a rookie mistake. Mind you, this is really new cuz I'm usually in studio. So to go out and really do mobile was different for me. But I was going to figure it out because that's what we do.

[1:38]  Figured it out. However, I forgot to um instead of hitting stop on the record, I just started to unplug everything. So it never saved the audio. So here I am. I'm hurt. I'm I'm you know because I set an expectation for myself and anything less I feel like I I failed right so the next morning I'm so down on myself man I couldn't get up I wanted to cancel every meeting I'm having this chest in my pain like you know I just literally felt like I failed Jeremy you know before I left there though the guy that I never met that's you know the VP of communications relations he already loved that I showed up and how I showed up with cameras and lights he's like people just show up with a cell phone

[2:14]  he says that you came from Orlando to Austin allowed me to know that you really wanted this. So before I left, he already had a lined up of other people. But in my mind, I still failed, right? But I had to sit here and think about it and remember where I came from. And believe it or not, Jeremy, and I'm happy that you're the first person here today, the first person I spoke to after all this happened was a lady that ran an organization of foster kids. And I had to remember where all started for me. I am a foster kid that was adopted at the age of 2 years old. and look where I'm able to actually be in my life where I'm able to live out a dream. You know, we talked about wrestling being one of the things that um helped me escape from reality as a young kid and one day saying, "I'm going to do something with wrestlers and and I'm going to work with subwees and I started this career two years ago of of actually being in the space and that happened." It is remembering where you started and remembering every time that you failed and there was a lesson to be learned, right? Even in that moment, there was a lesson to be learned. So yeah, Jeremy, it is it's remembering.

[3:15]  It's where you started and the people that encouraged you, right?

[3:20]  So that gentleman who recognized that you had made that trip from Orlando to Boston with a bunch of bags and whatever other technology that you came with, he he recognized the effort that that you put in and that was encouragement. And and you were adopted.

[3:40]  You're one of the lucky ones, brother. You were adopted at an early age. Adoption is imperfect. Family is imperfect. But you started

[3:50]  with a family. So now as a dad today, you at least have some context to what family could look and feel like.

[4:00]  Absolutely.

[4:00]  That's it.

[4:01]  Mhm.

[4:02]  What a gift.

[4:02]  Absolutely. I love that.

[4:03]  You were chosen, man. You were chosen.

[4:05]  I I I do say that. I do say that. You know, it's one of those things as I grew up, I always knew I wanted to um give back because I felt like I was given a second chance. Believe it or not, this is from a very young age, knowing that I wanted to be in the space of giving back because someone gave to me. As you mentioned, it wasn't perfect. There were still the sexual abuse. There were still the unlove. There was all these things that were going on mentally that we did not take care of either. So, it was even a little harder, but I did. And it was really people. I actually one day u my neighbor actually picked me up from the airport weeks ago and he asked me that question. Ephrain, your mom had 10 kids. What made you the special one? Yeah.

[4:39]  Because there's still some of my family that are still living that same lifestyle, right? Thinking someone owes them something. And kind of to what you said, man, I had people in my life that seen me for who I was and not for who I was. Who what was I going through at that moment, right? When I was acting out in school, when I was, you know, barely getting by, they realized that's not who Ephrain was. Something is happening even bigger in his home. you know, um, friends that we didn't start off as friends because I was always a jokester, so I make fun of anybody. But these two girls that, um, you know, I used to make probably just harass with jokes. My best friends, my sisters now, they believed in me. They seen something in me. My wife,

[5:17]  I remember early on when I got with her. And she said, that's when I really started talking about my sexual abuse and my life and everything that was happening at like 20ome years old. And she says, "Even if we don't work out, I want to be there for you and help you heal."

[5:29]  And at that moment, I had to marry her. Like, no one ever said that to me. You know what I mean, Jeremy? So, no, it is, man. It is where we start. It's not uh where we finish. And I ask you, Jeremy, go ahead. You're going to say something.

[5:39]  I was going to say something about sexual abuse, right, that you went through because this is the second time I've heard you say that. And um I hear you. It's it's one of the terrible risks of the work we do that sometimes the best decision you think you made could be turned upside down because of a perpetrator's ability to get to a child and you were a child and you were hurt

[6:11]  and nothing takes away from that pain.

[6:15]  Absolutely. except you identified three relationships that helped you heal.

[6:22]  You know, I I think it's worth saying that in all that we do, the only thing that I've seen that heals is a relationship. Relationships heal. Everything else is kind of sweet. It's secondary. Therapy is important. It could be helpful. But in the absence of relationships, the people that see you, see through you, understand you, love you for who you are. You know, we talk about this concept of implicit belonging. Implicit belonging is when people love you for who you are, not for who you might become. So it is no there are no conditions on that love. It is simply like, man, I love you for who you are. There are lots of things people may not like about you, but I just love you for who you are. End of story.

[7:13]  And that is the power of relationship healing. And how lucky are you to have so many people that love you for who you are?

[7:22]  I I agree, man.

[7:23]  And they'll celebrate who you'll become.

[7:26]  Sometimes not even, you know, you say that and it was sometimes where I was even probably loving myself, people were loving me, you know, and and how deep is that, right? that someone can love you even when you don't love yourself. So important.

[7:38]  And so when kids don't have that, when people don't have that, you know, I'm not loving myself and nobody loves me, that's when their world falls apart,

[7:50]  right? Because there's no one to pull you out of that darkness of selfhate. You know, when you start not loving yourself, you go into this spiral of self-hate. You begin to think about all the things you did wrong that you could have done better, all the failures you made. I mean, look, to be human is to fail, right?

[8:11]  Yeah.

[8:11]  But some of the biggest yourself up

[8:15]  and when you have people in your life that can bring you out of the darkness and say,

[8:19]  "Yeah, so you said that on radio, too." Or, you know, you said that on TV, man. What what a stupid thing. But you're going to say a lot of other smart things tomorrow and the day after and the day after. and we're waiting here to hear you say them, right? Because we are so hard on ourselves. It's a human condition that we think the worst of ourselves. I uh I love how this conversation has started, man. I kind of want to bring it back to how you started, right? This was just something you signed up for the ROC. You um just probably having fun, right? High school days, like not knowing what really is going to come out of it. But your whole career was based off that moment. And sometimes we don't realize it, man. The seeds are planted in our lives. I talk about wanting to give back. That seed was planted so many years ago. And I go as a older 20some years old after telling the world that not really telling the world, but telling my wife and others that I was sexually abused. I go and start a nonprofit. 20ome years old. I go, you know, all these seeds lead us to where we at today. Talk about it, man. That seed that was planted being an RTC going to a group home. How did that change life? Look, uh, it was transformational. Um, I think I should mention that some of the seeds that were planted, I didn't recognize them, but were planted by my mom, and I was I'm blessed, uh, that she's still alive, and she'll probably hear this, and that'll be cool. Um, she she's the reason for who I am. But what happened to me was I I had an incredible senior officer, a captain who I think saw something in me that I didn't see in myself. And he he kept saying, "Look, you there are a lot of things you can do. You know, we love talking and he would, you know, here's this very senior man spending time with me and kind of said, "Hey, look at other things you might want to do while you're studying psychology." and he is the one that guided me to that uh to that group home. And as as a new immigrant, I had no context for foster care, group homes, juvenile justice, nothing. All I saw was a bunch of kids, some of them who looked like me, about as dark as me, some darker. Um not all, but none of them had a shared narrative about family and food. two things that I took into that place and that got me interested because I I wanted to know why they couldn't talk about family with confidence and I learned later it was because the system had told them things about family and they've always nervous to talk to any staff about family because they felt that they'd be you know judged for their feelings right I mean some of let's face it We have young people in foster care who have been hurt badly. This is not all, you know, hey, these kids never need to be in a system. That's not true. There are some kids, and there were a couple young people in that group home that had been hurt, but here's a complicated relationship with family. Even when you're hurt by family, that doesn't mean you don't you stop loving them,

[11:39]  right? Mhm.

[11:40]  And uh that kind of got me interested in understanding more about why young people and these were teenagers mostly uh would languish in a home and not have aspirations like you and I have today for all the things we want to do tomorrow. They couldn't see beyond beyond that day.

[12:03]  It's a hard thing, man. It's a hard thing as you mentioned just having people in your corner that are really rooting for you in a sense. And your mom was that to you as you mentioned. You mentioned a phone call you had with your mom when she says, "Why do you listen to your father? Go find something you love to do." Yeah, that's a that's a pretty good u look my my father is an Asian and in Asian society there there are these expectations about achievement and I I think I always felt that being a doctor, a lawyer, a military officer, all these good things were like my priority and that there was wasn't really anything in between that I felt I could do that could make people happy. And uh when I finally called my mom and said, "Mom, you know, I'm I'm you know, I'm practicing as a neurossychologist here in New York. I'm I'm loving learning this stuff." And she said, "Well, so what's the issue?" And I said, "Well, but I'm I'm not happy. I'm like not tied I'm tied to an office. I'm doing a lot of testing." And she said, "Well, why are you doing that?" I said, "Well, I I I know that's the expectation. I'm the oldest of the biological children.

[13:14]  And she said, "Why do you listen to your dad? Just go do something you love." And I immediately went back to find a place that had kids. So, because I remember loving that that those few months that I spent with them just inspired me. So, I said, "Let's let me go find some kids that inspire me." And I've been inspired ever since.

[13:37]  You said you're the oldest of biological kids. Did you guys end up adopting?

[13:40]  We do. We have uh three uh my mom and dad adopted three others. Uh so but I'm the oldest of the biological.

[13:48]  This is before you get in into this line of work.

[13:50]  Yes.

[13:51]  So that's also added on to when you get into this space like you're living this world and now you really get to see it at a different level.

[13:59]  Yes.

[13:59]  Oh yeah. This exciting stuff, man.

[14:01]  This this this is what moved the needle even more. I I you know I'm in the space of when I met my wife I um I always say that I wanted to have two and adopt two and we still have young ones and so the adoption having came but it's always cool to see someone in this space that lived it you know I think there's nobody better to be an advocate a fighter for these young individuals than someone that actually understands the space that's live the space um it it it it's so I I totally forgot that you mentioned that um What was that like, man? Did Did do you feel any You know, one of the things I tell you, my sister, she was my cousin. I used to always hate when they said, "This is my cousin. We adopted him, right? It already kind of put me in a different space." What was that like for you, man? Having to go introduce these individuals that, you know, were adopted.

[14:53]  Um, I never thought much about it. Uh, two of them came after I had left home, so they came later. Um there was a cultural context that made it a little little easier. I think this idea that you know this is just a part of your expanded family. Outsiders looked at it differently. I remember people saying well you know you're going to give them your name and you know what happens when your parents die? And I was like I I don't know. I mean it's not like we have a lot of money to begin with. So outside the immediate family, there was always talk and and let's face it, man, I didn't have a perfect family either.

[15:34]  As you said, you don't define family as someone who chooses you.

[15:37]  Nope.

[15:37]  Right. Especially in systems that are designed around placement. How do you make that real beyond the cinematics?

[15:44]  Well, I I think there are two things that need to happen. One is when children are in the system um you forget what it means to have family because the system's bureaucracy and casework functions all well intended but they kind of take you away from normaly and you live in this very artificial environment of demands schedules and compliance. That's basically what the system gives you as you get older in the system. So we have to convince young people that have spent time in the system because the longer you stay in the system, the greater the damage, right? No question about that. We have to convince them that they deserve family and that family is not perfect. That's the other thing. You know, you you put a teenager who has never experienced family in a family, they think that family is like from the movies. We're like, "Yeah, no, no, no, not even close. Not even close." So, um, helping them want it and then going to people who they may know and saying, "Hey, look, this person, this young person thinks of you as family." You know, they think, you may not have realized that, but they think of you as family. And that is the key conversation that we need to carry because look the other problem with the system is this expertise uh aura that we carry right so normal people look at us social workers psychologist psychiatrist good people in the system and they think we know everything and and they think there's a scientific explanation or a scientific solution to the problems that we are trying to solve. Actually, no. It's a human solution. And so, the big piece here is to identify people that young people say, "Hey, you know what? She was there for me. Those two those two girls that I harassed, you know, they were there for me. Maybe they would want to be my family." And then we need to carry that message forward.

[18:04]  Yeah. And and and for me, man, those two girls that you me that I mentioned earlier, those are my families. Those are sisters.

[18:10]  That's it.

[18:11]  So, for the last uh 15 years, we've come together. We don't even celebrate Thanksgiving with our families. We celebrate Friendsgiving. And now that we have families, now we just bring our families together for Thanksgiving. We bring our families together for Christmas. My my and and mind you, she's African-American. My daughter only knows her as Stiti. Yeah.

[18:30]  Right. And vice versa. Her kids only know me as Tio because we're just family, right? Family doesn't have to look a certain way. Uh family doesn't have to be blood all the time is how I I I realized that in my life

[18:42]  you know what I mean like let's let's be honest sometimes you adopted and you guys are not blood but you guys are family

[18:47]  you know my case we were we were blood that was that's my aunt that raised me as her her own and there were so many things that I had to take out of that and realize as an adult and I don't know that some people are having this conversation and as I grew older and I became a father myself and really started to open up and have conversations I've never had with her um I realized she did the best she could with what she And back then, Jeremy, we know that they didn't have the best. All right. She had to figure it out. This was a a young woman herself that uh her sister couldn't take care of her own kids. So, she's like, "Well, I can only take three out of the 10 cuz I already have my own for and didn't graduate high school, you know." So, there was a lot of animosity as I grew older. But as I realized life and what that looks like and how much she had to sacrifice and and really the space of adoption and what that looks like and that the assistance that was happening, she did the best she could what she had and I had a love for that because she didn't have to, right? She she could have made I could have been in a foster home and I know and I had families to this day that are still in foster homes, you know? So I I love that, man. And one special thing I love about you as well, man, cuz there's so many special things I love about you. I I seeing you today, I was like, man, it's been a long time since we had a conversation. I remember how good it was, actually. So, I knew that was going to be good today as well. But I love that you you've also moved from 25% success in family placement to 95%. What changes had happened structurally, culturally, and emotionally to to get to that shift, at least within your organization?

[20:18]  I I think the um key change was a belief, changing belief, right? Uh the system has for too long believed that we have a solution for kids and

[20:36]  the longer we don't find it the longer kids stay in the system till they basically age out.

[20:42]  Yeah.

[20:42]  Right. When you change your belief internally as an organization to say that when kids are here long the damage is greater. They need to be with people. Doesn't mean it's perfect with people, but they need to learn how to live in the real world with real people. That shift was not easy. That shift was not easy. And when you factor in issues of race and poverty, there's always this tendency for us to believe that somehow poor families can't do right by their kids. Your story is a story I've heard over and over again where an adult tells me, "He took me. She took me. We barely had enough with all the other things going on in their life, but they chose me. They took me." Right? And that's that defines your success today. that that was your foundation that someone chose you early and not everyone in the family, right? There were 10 kids, but there you go. We have to and we had to convince ourselves that we were not that good unless kids were with family. That is really hard to do in this system. Yeah.

[22:12]  Today we have 4 about 450,000 kids in foster care alone in the United States. Look at juvenile justice

[22:19]  that have been taken away from their families. Again, there are reasons why kids need to be protected, right? You know this, you there are reasons why kids need to be in foster care,

[22:31]  but foster care is not a permanent solution. It never should be. And the longer a child stays in the system, the less likely they are to go back to a family because it becomes harder

[22:43]  and and they start to um feel like nobody wants them,

[22:48]  right? Like h how do you use that vulnerability to in your daily leadership when you're carrying the weight of others that maybe they can't see?

[23:00]  It's hard. I mean, one thing I do, and I just did it this morning, is I go out to meet young people as they come to school as three to four days a week. I do it. And I did it when my when I when I was as young as you and my kids were younger, you know, and and they there were three to four days a week when they wouldn't see me in the morning because I wanted to be here with these young people because I need the constant reminder of the child that has not found a family yet. I need that.

[23:34]  It is easy to forget when you don't see the problem, right? There's it's a human condition. We avoid pain. So if seeing children without family is painful, my mind is going to just keep me busy thinking about other things and then things will go back to the way they were.

[23:56]  And how about with your 1500 plus staff, man, and multiple programs? How do you make that macro feel personal so everyone from admin or to the front line knows that they matter? Because right, we all matter in this space. and and for if I'm working for someone if I know I matter I then give the same output right so how do you go through all that man it's not like you have a small organization

[24:18]  it's really hard it's really hard look people come to this work for the mission they stay for the people um I learned that early on and so a big part of our challenge is to create community look u at the entry level this work doesn't pay Well, right. We have amazing people that are working two and three jobs to do something they love. So, the burden on us is to make the work meaningful. And I try to do it for the people that I come in contact with because I want them to know that it's not just a job that there's greater meaning that they're teachers that they're coaches that they're agents of life transformation. Um but to kind of get that to spread through a large organization, you are constantly depending on that frontline manager to be that person that not only demands great quality work because we're working with young people and families and there is not a lot of room for error but can also inspire people into believing that they are both successful and can be greater. Not easy to do. Not I I I I don't think we are doing that as well as we could. I want to be honest.

[25:39]  I um you don't look as old as you do, right? Um because you you have no hair, so I can't really tell. But you've been doing this organization, you mentioned a little earlier, you're kind of showing your age a little bit as you continue to tell stories, but uh you've been in this organization for 20 years, and a lot of times people don't see how hard it was to get to somewhere. And I want to talk about that because anything that you do, no matter what your lifestyle is, you want something, you have to work for it. You have to hear the nos and through those nos, you got to pick yourself back up and keep going at it. You had 19 interviews.

[26:13]  I did. I did. Well,

[26:15]  like what what does that look like, man? How does that making you feel on something that you have a passionate love for, but you're getting the door shut a little bit?

[26:23]  Uh, it was kind of crazy. Uh well look, Children's Village is an old institution, right? We turn 175 years old next June.

[26:32]  That's wow.

[26:32]  That in this in the United States that makes us one of the older players.

[26:37]  Um

[26:38]  and to come before these amazing amazing trustees who had only heard one message for years and the message was this. It is better to take these kids and put them in our beautiful camp on our beautiful campus with 200 acres of green grass and you know just outside New just barely outside New York City. They are so much better here than in all those much more challenging communities where they came from.

[27:11]  Mhm.

[27:12]  So that's what they always heard. and for to have somebody who was way too young then to come before them and say, "What are you doing?" These young people need to be back in those communities. They need to be with family. They'll find their way forward, right? Our job is to make sure they're safe and get them home, not keep them here. Because the statistics were pretty clear. I mean, kids that grow up in foster care end up in homelessness, in jail, you know, human traffic, just terrible. The longer you stay, the greater the damage. That was not an easy message for them to hear. And it didn't help that the former uh person was also communicating and saying, "Hey, what's what are you guys doing? This guy has written about, you know, closing places down that keep kids, you know, he's he's like the antichrist of foster care. Uh I didn't feel great about it. And I remember um at my 18th in after my 18th interview, the recruiter called me and said, "Hey, how are you doing? Are you okay?" And I said, "Look, um don't call me again. I don't want to leave a place where I'm loved to go to a place where the first time I make a mistake, it'll confirm their opinion of me that I'm this guy that shouldn't have been hired. And something amazing happened. the chair of the board who passed away a couple uh years ago. Amazing guy. He called me and he invited me and my family, my wife and my three children to come to his home and spend a Sunday with him. And at some point he leaned over to my wife and said, I didn't know this. Look, if he chooses to come, I've got his back. And at the end of the day, we spent the whole day. It was a day in February. I remember snow all over the place. Um, he said, "Look, I I really hope you'll say yes. I know this hasn't been easy." And I took a chance. And I said yes. And I said yes, mostly because I wanted the opportunity to lead a foster care organization that had a massive history and do something different while talking about race, poverty, success, you know, reminding everyone that our our kids have been victimized, but they're not victims, right? A

[30:00]  big difference there. Big difference. Wow. And what did you learn? Like what are you learning? I mean, I could imagine a young leader in this space, right? Uh you already had odds against you. People didn't really believe, but you still took on the opportunity because you believed in yourself more than anything. What are you learning as you're as you're taking on this new new journey in your life?

[30:23]  Two two things. Um I often think about it. One is um you got to build alliances quickly. Um, you got to somebody's got to trust you and and that's important and I did that. I found people in the organization that were willing to hear me and look at the work differently. And the second is money drives the system. It doesn't matter what system it is. Money is a massive incentive. If you can't change how you spend money, you're not going to change the work. We were spending all our money in on keeping kids in places where that we thought were beautiful but away from family. We had to make some tough decisions and man they were hard to because we didn't have new money to take the money we were already spending and spend it on the thing that we believed was going to make a difference which was finding families finding foster families inviting parents back inviting family groups back and saying come have a meal with us and tell us who in your huge family would say yes to this young person that took a lot of money and change in that spend transformed us.

[31:45]  If the Heart and Hustle podcast has ever sparked any idea or made you think differently, do us a favor. Make sure to guys share this, post it on LinkedIn, or even text that nonprofit friend that you just have. Whatever works. This is what keeps the conversation going and allows us to just grow this community together. Seriously, we appreciate you. Yeah. from that 25 to 95. All right. All because you found people to believe in you and you believed more than anything.

[32:13]  Um I love it. I'm love I'm here selfishly learning from you, man. As I lead take off an organization, it's really funny that you say that because I just took over your organization and it is that it's out of 10 of us. I feel like there's four of us that are really driving it and and and three others that are believing in me

[32:27]  and say, "We got your back. Just lead." All right. like it's not easy when you want everyone to be on board, but there's that other half that for a very long time probably believed and realized that things just weren't happening. So, they start to not believe and I I I don't think that they don't, you know, it's just didn't have a good enough leader to lead them to that what they wanted to,

[32:48]  you know? So, here you come trying to get them there, but they already don't care, right? Cuz they've seen it for the last couple of years. It is so hard, man. you're just really sharing some knowledge that I hope a lot of leaders are really um listening to cuz one of the biggest things you do is go to an organization and make changes like that that you know are going to make huge impact and you have half the team saying yes and you have half the other team saying no. I'm a big believer that when you when it when it happens everyone wants to jump on board after the fact like oh my god it's happening. I can imagine Jeremy that's some of the things that were happening right on once you they see the changes they're like oh I love this this is what we've been needing the whole time. It it took time, right? They they add to that it was working.

[33:28]  It takes time. And and that whole thing about money, you know, I talk to a lot of leaders who say, "Well, we'd love to do what you do, but we don't have the money to spend." Well, you're already spending money. If you're not spending money on the priorities that you believe are correct, you'll never get there. Because look, the system is about money. I'm sorry. Good intent only gets you so far if you can't change the spend. That's that's it. You might you know the reason why we have people doing the same good thing year after year and not making change. You know, we build affordable housing in our most burdened communities. And everyone I talk to says, "Yeah, it's not right. You know, we put another building in there that they don't have a good school." But we do it because we don't know how. We don't know how to change the spend or do we don't want to take the risk to change the spend.

[34:29]  Love this man. You you come for for the mission but you stay for the people. What does that mean when the mission is actually relentless and the people are human? Look, the people that come into this work are consistently driven by things that are often outside what you think their qualifications might be. Right? So we are seeing doctors, lawyers, great social workers, psychiatrists, amazing professionals. But you dig a little deeper and for many of them it's a past experience. It's faith. It's it's a cultural experience. It's a sense of calling. So in this field we attract some amazing amazing people but the work is so demanding as you said the mission is so relentless. You that will not carry you through permanently. If you want to stay in this field, you've got to find a few people and relationships that are meaningful to you. Because what keeps you encouraged at the end of a brutal day is not the work anymore. It is your companionship

[35:46]  of other people that are working as hard as you. This confidence that you have that you're not alone because this work is lonely. The work is so odd that you feel lonely in it. It feels like you're pushing that rock uphill and it's just not moving. But when you know there are other people that are also there, it gives you enough encouragement to come back and fight another day and maybe it's that next day that you experience a success.

[36:17]  Just can't give up.

[36:18]  Can't give up. But you can't do it alone. Can't do it alone. So organizations that are strong find ways to create community, authentic community, right? So that people can have friendships. Um I met my wife at work. That's not uncommon.

[36:39]  Yeah.

[36:39]  You know, friendships matter. Uh we spend it in this work, we spend way more time here than we spend at home. So if you don't have people, you're going to hate it, man.

[36:53]  Yeah. No, for sure. That f family at the end of the day, right? Like you guys become family.

[36:58]  You guys see each other every day. Sometimes even know more about each other than the family knows about them, right? Because you spend so much time.

[37:05]  That's right.

[37:05]  Um

[37:07]  for those that are wanting to gauge, man, how can they support Children's Village? You got you're you're doing some amazing things, whether it's through policy, donation, volunteering, advocacy, because I think a lot of people always think donation monetary, but there's so many different things people can actually do to really get involved. how

[37:23]  um so you can go to children'svillage.org uh one word children'svillage.org G see what we do. Uh love donations especially as we go into Thanksgiving and the holidays. These are the most difficult 10 weeks in our year. A lot of heartbreaks, a lot of loneliness, a lot of pain. Uh but we're looking for families. Mhm.

[37:46]  If you are in the greater New York City area and you have space in your home, room at your table, a willingness to open your heart and your doors, talk to us because we will not leave you alone. We will be with you 24/7. Easter, Christmas, doesn't matter the Hajj, we are there with you. If you open your doors to one of our young people, we will be there with you 247 and I promise you it'll be a lifechanging experience. I'm not saying it's easy, but it'll be life-changing.

[38:25]  You talk about that. A couple things, two things I would tell you about Thanksgiving. So, when I first started my nonprofit at 22, I always remember, and I don't know if they still do this in school, but you go back to school and they want you to talk about your vacation. They want you to talk about your holidays. And I realized that kids couldn't talk about holiday. they didn't have it. So for Thanksgiving, I decided uh for 5 years we did a Thanksgiving event and I'll bring speakers, I'll bring performers, I would we would do a whole uh feast. So you eat there, but we also handing out turkeys, handing out 100 turkeys in the community um that I grew up in because it was it was one of those rough communities. And I did that for 5 years. Then I started doing for Christmas. And you know, I ended up leaving that cuz I feel like the impact I was making wasn't as great as I I knew it it could be. So that's how I ended up back at my old high school to really impact more. Um, so it it is very interesting that you say that the holidays, right? It is those times and I'll tell you another story of someone that I know. Um, to this day she's 35 years old, doesn't know mom, doesn't know father. That she knows them now actually cuz she found them. But there one living in Haiti. She doesn't know where mom's at. She knows exactly kind of location, doesn't know. But when it comes to Thanksgiving, she doesn't have family to spend it with. Going back to what we mentioned, she decided Friendsgiving is her time where she brings all those people, those friends that our family like to her and she created her own. It is very hard for holidays because people take their lives around this time

[39:48]  because they they don't feel like they have family. They feel unseen, unheard, uncared for. So yes, I would second that is that there's people out there in the world, even my age, your age, that get so lonely around these times that would just love to be around other people that are like-minded, that feel alone. You know, so many people want to love, they can't, they don't know who to go love. There's so many young kids that just need that love. Um, so I I love that you mentioned that because the holidays does become a very stressful time. And for me, it's always giving back during these times because I understand how important it is. You know, my my kids are still a little young to understand, but I can't wait till we start going on Christmas days to these shelters and and really helping out the communities. We just found out there's actually a foster home um around us that my wife was like, "We got to go visit. We got to go check it out and see what's happening there." Like, that is my space, you know? So, I I love that you mentioned that because it it is it is people don't realize that you're people get so caught up in their own families and the excitement around it when there's so many people I've seen passed away during these times because they didn't have anybody.

[40:54]  Absolutely. And it's so great that you're doing so much and you know taking your very young children with you. It's important. And I I think if there was one message I would give the audience is don't don't for a minute think there's nothing you can do.

[41:11]  Mhm.

[41:12]  You It's not about your money. It's not about your cooking skills. It's about your willingness to spend time with people, right? And it it can't just be on be on Thanksgiving or Christmas or Easter.

[41:23]  You've got to make a commitment. If you want if we want to make the world a better place,

[41:28]  it's going to take a little bit of our time. I'm sorry.

[41:30]  Yeah. It is. I'm a big believer one story, one person is changing somebody's life

[41:34]  always.

[41:35]  You talk about it's not food, not sometimes just having a conversation with someone. That's right.

[41:39]  Allowing them to know that that that they're seen.

[41:41]  You know, I remember so many things that people told me in my life

[41:45]  that I can go back to and say, man, I remember that person told me um you know, one day if I if my father grows up to be anything like you, I'll be a happy dad. And my I didn't have a dad. So that was like I keep those words to myself, you know. Um you know, you're a rock star. things that people told me like wait you see that in me you know what I mean like you keep these little those are the seeds that are planted so it's not as you mentioned

[42:10]  very very powerful so if you're watching and you're a leader or you're just someone just enjoying this conversation is not about the money sometimes it's strictly about the conversation and just being present in someone's life you know being a mentor being an advocate for these individuals um it it definitely goes a long way and I feel like that's what kind of helped me through my life for Uh final words man to those leaders in any field. How do you invite them to carry this mission into every space they touch?

[42:39]  What I would say is win people over to a new way of doing what the work. If you're in the charitable sector, you are anchored by a pretty complicated history in the United States. A history that tells you that all you've got to do is be charitable. We need to create a new history. We need to be asking people what do they need that's permanent. Right? Charity is very temporary. We've got to give people what's permanent. Permanent is family, education, a safe place to stay. If we can give people those three things, they'll find their way. Man, they'll find their way.

[43:25]  I'll leave you with this blind question, man. And I'm I'm going change it up for you. Get you a little deep questioning before we hop off. You carried immense responsibility and hope. What's one moment you felt like you failed a child or a system? And how did that actually that failure reshape your path forward? You know, this answer is going to be so unsatisfying to you. I fail almost every day because I still meet young people that have not found a family. And I can't tell you how hard that is to admit, but it really is every day. Yeah. No, I appreciate it. I What a way to really to end this. Um I'm excited for the work that you do, Jeremy. One day we have to meet. You said you're in the New York area. Is that what?

[44:16]  Yes. Yes. right in the city. Find me anytime.

[44:19]  I I may be there uh the end of this month. I have an opportunity um with TikTok. Remember I told you that I've been doing Tik Tok. So,

[44:27]  they invited me to a summit. So, I'll be probably in and out that day. But um I'm I'm definitely going to reach out, man. I would love to have lunch or coffee. I don't know what exactly what area I'm going to be in. I'll have to let you.

[44:36]  Let me know. Drop me an email and come and see some of the homes that we build for our people.

[44:41]  I I would love to. I would love to, man. I would love to. Well, Jeremy, we thank you so much for your time. I you mentioned the website. Are you also guys on social media that can

[44:49]  all over he makes sure listen there's there's no stoned unturned. He's make sure he's covered it all. I thank you so much Jeremy. Thank you for the work that you've done for the dedication that you've made in this space as well obviously because it touches my heart to know that someone like you has fought for the last 20 plus years and even more since a young kid understanding that this wasn't right and there has to be some changes and you made tremendous changes. So, we thank you for the work that you've done. Guys, if you guys are still watching, make sure that you guys do like, subscribe, comment, um, and find out more about these organizations, how you can get involved to make make someone's life just a little bit better today, you know. We thank you. I'm Ephrain. This is Jeremy. We'll catch you later.

[45:29]  Thank you, brother. Take care. Bye.