Why Child Welfare Is Not What Most People Think

[0:16]  Welcome back to another episode here on the Heart and Hustle Podcast. We have Miss Mimi. How are you doing today, ma'am?

[0:21]  I am doing very well. Thanks for having me.

[0:23]  Yeah, absolutely. Where are we virtually visiting today?

[0:25]  I am in Denver, Colorado.

[0:27]  Love it, born and raised.

[0:31]  No, actually I was born and raised in Wisconsin.

[0:33]  Love it. What brings you to Denver, Colorado? Like how did you get there?

[0:38]  Well, I went to college in Madison, Wisconsin, at UW Madison. And then after my master's program I had friends who lived out here and it was an easier time and they just said, Hey, come live with us and find a job. So I did. And so I came out and came to Castle Rock, Colorado, where I started my career and kind of jumped all over the place and so now I'm here in Denver.

[1:02]  I I just met someone that went from Colorado. He moved to Phoenix, hates Phoenix and wants to move back to Colorado. Just loved everything about it. What's the thing that you love most about Colorado? 'Cause people seem to just really enjoy Colorado.

[1:15]  Yeah, I think one of the things I enjoy most about Carol is everybody's pretty laid back. you know, you can go to a restaurant and it you know, you may have a dress code, but most people don't follow it. You know, you'll see shorts and flip flops and suits all at the same table. It's kinda it's kinda great.

[1:32]  Ha ha ha.

[1:32]  lots of outdoor outdoor activities to be done. People who love the outdoors love it here. Yes, it can get hot. It has been the last week. Today it's rainy and humid, which is kind of unusual for us. Humidity's not normal, but Yeah, and the winters are typically mild. We're hoping for a bit more action this winter because last winter was almost non existent. But yeah,

[1:54]  Really?

[1:55]  we get a variety of things. It's it's quite the interesting environment over here.

[1:58]  Are you hiking the mountains?

[2:02]  every once in a while, actually not so much in the mountains, but we have lots of just hiking trails that are not always an incline. So people who don't really enjoy that kind of thing, there's plenty of places to go that you can just walk and enjoy being outdoors. It's great.

[2:16]  Love it. And what's the organization you represent today? And what's your title with them?

[2:20]  Sure, I'm with Denver Human Services and I am the chief program officer. And what that means

[2:27]  Okay, so

[2:27]  is I oversee most of our state federal programs that we operate.

[2:31]  Okay, so have you been having a tough time? I know w we're having some issues at the government level, so is your job getting only harder, will you say, as time goes on, or are you figuring it out?

[2:43]  a little of both. harder just depends on what the hard thing is at the moment. I think human services has lots of hard things all the time. They just change. one of the things I believe that we as long as well as other I think across the nation really is local budgets are a challenge already. And then the federal changes are going to impact our budgets quite a bit more with just having us It's leading us to having to make harder decisions about staffing, our levels of staffing, the work that we do, how many people we have doing the work, how we do the work is also a very, very big conversation right now.

[3:23]  Yeah.

[3:23]  so, yes, the federal changes do have impact on us as an agency, and they also have impact on those who receive our services, right? Like some

[3:35]  Yeah.

[3:35]  folks who used to be qualified for our services may no longer be qualified. Or they can remain qualified if they do some sort of community engagement activities, which may be new for some of them. and

[3:48]  Love it.

[3:49]  then determining if someone doesn't does not need those and they are exempt from that. How do you figure that out? And how do you make sure that they know that and and we're able to articulate that for for the system. So yeah, lots of really, really hard conversations happening for sure.

[4:03]  I see where you stay busy now. You gotta have these conversations,

[6:00]  Yeah, just a little bit.

[6:03]  gotta figure it out. Yeah, yeah. How long have you been in the nonprofit space?

[6:15]  Well, I've actually been in government for twenty Gosh, I don't know. Twenty five years. Yeah.

[6:29]  Long time. Wow.

[6:32]  I've never actually worked in the private sector except for maybe, you know, IHOP when I was in college. Other than that, I've been in the government and public sector.

[6:57]  What what was that favorite meal iHop, you still remember?

[7:43]  my gosh. I would ask the cooks to make me an omelet and make sure they put ham and the hash browns inside the omelet so I can add it all together. Lots of cheese too.

[9:55]  I love that I've been IHOpping so long, but I I would

[10:38]  Ha ha ha.

[10:45]  remember on a a good old fun night, when it's two or three o'clock in the morning, we're probably going IHOP. Getting us a good breakfast.

[11:55]  Yep. I've had those shifts. They were fascinating.

[12:21]  what you you mentioned just it looks like you guys are doing a lot in the community. There's must be a lot of different programs. Can you just tell us some of these programs that you that exist that you guys are offering to the community?

[15:56]  Yeah, sure. So we have the typical benefit safety net programs, meaning we determine, you know, Medicaid eligibility, we determine SNAP benefits for food assistance for folks, long-term care for those folks who need additional services beyond home. we offer we pr well we provide our child welfare, child protection services as

[16:08]  Mm-hmm.

[16:08]  well as adult protection here in Colorado. And My gosh, there's so many. we also have some programs that are Denver specific, which is like our Mill Levy program that helps folks with develop intellectual and developmental disabilities to access services here in Denver. There is some funding that's dedicated to that. And we also have some outreach teams that really help our community partners and some of our clients that come in the door who just need a little extra help and support in in. navigating the services and trying to find resources that we may not offer but we can connect them to others. So we try to

[16:30]  Love it.

[16:30]  do a lot to kind of, you know, encircle our folks with the help that they

[16:50]  Yeah.

[16:51]  need. And I mean, we can't always help everybody, but we try to do our best.

[17:52]  So you guys are a pretty large organization, you say, huh?

[18:39]  We're our organization's about twelve hundred people strong and we have currently three locations across Denver, actually four, technically, four locations across Denver to make sure that we're meeting our customers where they are and we're able to provide access.

[22:12]  And how long have you been with this organization?

[22:17]  I have been in Denver Human Services since 2017. I started as the child welfare director and then I moved on to one of the deputy executive directors with a handful of programs under me. That was during COVID. That was interesting. And took on other duties as assigned. and then moved into this role a few years after.

[22:49]  Wa did you always think that you'll be in this space? I mean, a lot of times we life be life for us, life happens and we get into these mysterious places. We didn't even know sometimes existed. But did you always know you wanted to give back? You wanted to be in the space of just helping others?

[22:59]  I always knew I wanted to help others. Started saying I want to help animals and that didn't exactly work out. so I sh you know, just turned to the human space and said, I wanna help humans

[24:31]  Yeah.

[24:33]  and I really did avoid the child welfare field when I was in grad school. Lots of fear around that, lots of misunderstandings about that work. but landed there anyway and have been in love with it, been in the field, like I said, for over twenty years in the child welfare sphere. Started as a caseworker, never really had ambitions to be in leadership, it just kinda presented itself and I took the chance

[25:04]  Yeah.

[25:05]  and just kinda clapped.

[25:12]  When you're a leader, you can't run away from it. So it seems to me you are a leader. That's how you got there. You know, you didn't see it in yourself. Someone may have seen it in you, gave you the opportunities you mentioned during the pandemic to really take on more,

[26:36]  Yeah.

[26:38]  to bring you where you're at today. You said there was a misunderstanding around child welfare. What was the misunderstanding?

[29:27]  You know, I think like a lot of community members, people feel like child welfare is just there to take kids away from their families. And that

[29:34]  Mm.

[29:34]  is not what child welfare is about. Yes, we have to do that sometimes because we have kids that are in really dangerous situations. However, most of our work is intersecting with families who are really having a hard time and they need some additional support and care around them to be successful and to keep their kids and families safe and together as much as possible. and also, you know, if if there is a situation where we have to take a kid from a family, like how do we not remove them from their entire family, right? Keep them with people they know and love

[29:58]  Yeah.

[29:59]  and they these folks already know these kids and want to care for them. Like how do we just bring that universe closer to them to help provide support? But yeah, it was just this understanding that, my gosh, and people hate child welfare, nobody ever wants to talk to them, which is kind of true. Like child welfare gets

[30:01]  Yeah.

[30:01]  a bad name, but I think we do a lot of good and we've come a long way.

[30:02]  And I I appreciate it, as you know, my story of just being adopted as one of those things of I appreciate those that are providing the resources and meeting people where they're at. 'cause me too was taken on taken in by my aunt, right? So it wasn't that I was completely separated from my family. they put me in a place where they just felt would be the best. you know, and I j I just thank God that it it did happen that way. That I do know some sort of family, 'cause I know people that don't know family at all, you know, 'cause it's a closed case and whatever that may look like. So kudos to you for Giving your life to helping others. You know, it is not an easy task. there's a lot of fun things, I can imagine, Mimi. What is that that the thing that you love the most about the work that you do? Can imagine there's a lot of by.

[30:32]  there's l I mean there are a few different things, right? Like when I talk about our staff, there are so many people who just love the work that we do. I forgot, like we do child support services and they are there to make sure that kids and families get the resources they need if the parents aren't together. Like people are just so passionate about what they do. Even our like support teams, like our logistics staff and our financial services, like they know that they just have this bigger impact that's Out there and the mission that we have, and they're just so passionate about it. They love to have a good time. They love food. Bring food. Everybody's happy with food. yeah.

[30:57]  Who doesn't love food? You know?

[30:58]  And our clients, it's challenging because honestly, our work really is engaging with folks at one of the hardest times of their life, right? It is they are in a bad spot most of the time. Maybe they're having a really, really bad day. But the fact that people can come in with a smile on their face and say good morning is really just encouraging that, yeah, life can get really hard, but people are really resilient too. Like they can figure it out. And we can just be an additional support for them in any way. it just it it fills your cup if you're that kind of person, I guess.

[31:19]  Y you know, this is when we talk about the things that we do naturally, I can imagine you do this naturally. I got a text message today from someone I haven't spoken to some months. and not that I n really knew this person, but when I met this person, you can see the good in that person. Life started to life. you know, now the person's up against trying to provide for their family, making sure the kids are good and you can just kind of see like almost kind of the spiral a little bit. and I would always just try to pour into that individual and just let him know that, you know, life do be lifing, like you gotta continue to stay consistent, you gotta find the right community around you. All that to me matters, right? Is that you're you're I like my camera starting to act up here. we'll get this camera back on. But he he he he messaged me today and just kind of told me how he really appreciated pouring into him during those times and he he doesn't take that for granted. You know, so I really just kind of appreciated that. I can imagine there's times that you, me, me, had the same kind of experience where, you know, you were there for someone and someone just kind of sometimes we don't know that we're watering seeds or planting seeds. We just naturally as leaders want to help others at whatever whatever level, right? You just meet this person off the streets and you're like, Hey, you have purpose. Like maybe today is not the best day, but that doesn't mean that's what it looks like, you know, moving forward. Do you recall any of those that people have come to you that you'd even expect to come to you? 'cause I think that's always where we our cups are filled, right? It's not just the paychecks, it's really the work that we do.

[31:19]  Yeah. You know, there's so many instances where you're just you're just interacting with people and you're just trying to be a person and be real

[31:19]  Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[31:19]  and be helpful. there was this one woman, very young woman, probably nineteen years old. She was so young. She was leaving our office clearly very upset. I don't know if our security team said they couldn't help them at her at this door or whatever the case may be. I don't know. She was very upset and I was on my way in and I I just Stopped her and said, Hey, is there anything I can help you with? And she was just saying how she'd gotten out of this really terrible relationship and she didn't know where to go for help. and the people there weren't helping her, and just she was just clearly so upset and frustrated and scared. And I just kind of directed her to which building to go to, how they were gonna help her, and that I just I acknowledged, just acknowledged where she was, right? I didn't tell her. It's gonna be better, everything's gonna be fine. I didn't know that any of that would happen, right? I don't know that any of that's gonna happen. But I acknowledged where she was and I tried to give her the resources and that was just a small interaction. Like that literally was a 10 minute conversation, if that. But

[31:19]  Yeah.

[31:19]  by the time she left, she just felt so much calmer, knowing she had just some place to go. I have no idea if she got what she needed and how it worked out, right? This was literally in the parking lot. But I feel like when you're running into people every day. Even just on the street, a little bit of kindness goes so far. Just

[31:19]  Agree.

[31:19]  kindness, right? Just a hello, a smile, anything, like it connects people humanly and they may be having a really crappy day. And quite frankly, you might be having a crappy day, but if you just put on that smile and is kind to somebody, that really will just help you feel better in general. I don't know. There's lots of work things I could tell you, but I don't really know them.

[31:19]  Yeah. No, yeah, you know you just

[31:19]  You know, it's like I don't know, I don't know how great people are, but just I can just benefit from people just being human and kind.

[31:19]  I think it's all about that authentic being authentic, right? Just being yourself. I think people appreciate that. And it is just being kind. It is meeting people where they're at at times. It is saying the hello. sometimes even just picking up a call and calling a friend and saying, How are you doing? We we some as humans, we want to feel seen, right? We want to feel heard and a lot of times maybe in in situations that someone grew up in just never felt that. and I I think that's one of the biggest things I kind of struggled with. And thirty years old, I finally was able to tell my mom how I felt my whole life as this child. and and her response was, I'm sorry, I did the best I could with what I knew. Right. And we talk about those resources, Mimi. This is someone that had four of my own kids, took in three, already didn't graduate high school, was really trying to figure it out and was just trying to find help, you know, and and and truly was doing the best she could of what what she had. So I I commend you in the work because it's it's her, right, that we're trying to get to and let them know that we're we're not alone. Like while you have these seven kids and you're taking on, you know, three more, like we want to make sure that we can help you. We want to make sure that we can, you know, provide that guidance. If someone like that, what does that look like? Someone comes in, seven kids, already taking in some kids. How do you guys assist in assisting are you assisting the whole family, I'm guessing? Not just mom with resources, but even the kids with resources?

[31:19]  yeah. So how the resources kinda work. I mean, it all depends on what the situation is that brought them to us, right? Is it because they came in to sign up for some benefits they may qualify for, whether that be SNAP, which the community knows more of food stamps, whether it's,

[31:19]  Mm-hmm.

[31:19]  you know, Medicaid to get their medical needs met, whether it's basic cash assistance, which is just a small cash payment that will help them and they also cut our connected kind of job job Readiness, support, training, that kind of stuff, GED, we can connect them with stuff like that. So there's a lot of resources

[31:19]  Yeah.

[31:19]  we can offer. So if they come to us, we're gonna do a pretty thorough kind of not an assessment. It's not really like a formal thing, but it's a conversation. What is it that you need? And if you come in for one thing and we identify maybe you need more, because I'm hearing there's more that you may need. Let me try to connect you with those other things. So we'll do that. And then if they come in through the child welfare door, it's not a voluntary thing. Like people don't typically call child welfare and say, I need help, right? That is not typically what happens. Normally it's somebody from the community, a family member that calls us because they're s really concerned about the safety of children, the capacity of the parents to care for those children, things like that. So they'll come through the child welfare door, and depending on what the circumstances are, you know, we'll go out and we'll do an assessment. And it's more formal and it's really a lot of questions about. You know, what resources the family has, how they're using them, are they able to provide for the kids? Are the kids able to get to school? Things like that, depending on the ages and daycare situation is really a struggle for a lot of people. Housing is a real struggle for a lot of people. so we try to connect them as much as we can. And unfortunately, the resources are pretty limited now. for example, we operate the child care assistance program here as well. So I'm probably gonna remember all the programs we do as we go through this podcast. So just

[31:19]  I I love it. Keep going, like

[31:19]  So we we CCAP is one kind of federal program for childcare that is offered. there's also Head Start and Colorado has universal pre-K. but the amount of people we can serve with the funding we have is pretty limited. we can only serve a small, like single digit percentage of the population who qualifies based on their income that we can actually provide it. and and the money is so tight that now we're on a freeze. We can't put any more kids on our rolls because we don't have enough money to serve them at this point. So we have to wait until so many families kind of roll off the program before we can bring new families on, which probably won't be until next year. which daycare

[31:19]  Wow. So you guys have a waiting list at this point?

[31:19]  we don't. It's actually we're literally on a freeze. Like we can't even put people on a wait list. They can apply. But we just kind of take their application, put it in the system, and kind of set it aside. And

[31:19]  Got it.

[31:19]  then when we can transition to an actual wait list, then we'll go back through all those applications we put on the side and see who still needs it, who still wants to update their application, and then we can put them on the wait list. And then we have to decide what families we have to prioritize based on the federal program guidelines. So there are families that get priority over others. So there's just not enough. Go around necessarily. So trying to figure out how we can support families the best we can, leaning into people they know, leaning into other daycare resources so they can maybe get a job and work. you know, leaning into the school and what resources schools can provide, if anything. There's just so many we have to get really creative to help families get the support

[31:19]  Yeah.

[31:19]  they need.

[31:19]  I I was gonna say that you you definitely a time where we have to pivot and figure out how do we get around some of these things where we can still meet people at where they're at. And I actually ask you, because I know you're in a tough situation and you're probably talking to yourself every day on like, hey, it's gonna get better or you know, this is just we're in this dark tunnel, I see that I will see the light at the end of it. what are you sharing to yourself that maybe you can share with other colleagues that are kind of in the similar situations that are kind of almost freaking out like Are we going to lose programs? Are we going lose the organization? Can imagine this is a tough time, but you're also having to talk to yourself to make sure you're showing up authentically you.

[31:19]  I think a lot of the conversation is kind of starting at that place of what do you have control over and what do you not? Right? Because we're in a position where there are a lot of things happening that we have absolutely no control. It's going to happen. We're gonna have to figure out what we do with what comes. But then what do we have control over and how can we lean into the control of the pieces we do have to hopefully mitigate the outcome, change it, make it less impactful in the negative. and get it more neutral. Again, like there's so much we can do. And that takes some really creative thinking. And it also takes some really challenging thinking. because, you know, we're in this place of when when we were flush with cash, and I say that like during COVID, you know, there was just money coming in to everybody to do all sorts of things to help

[31:19]  Yeah.

[31:19]  serve community, right? Those dollars are gone. And a lot of people were kind of living as those dollars are just going to be there. And now they're not.

[31:19]  Got it.

[31:19]  Right. So there are going to have to be really hard conversations about what are the basic things that we can provide and we will provide? And what are those really nice to have that we can't do anymore? But then how do we bring our community along with us to say, here are the things that the money will pay for now? Here are the things that it won't pay for anymore, at least not through us. What do you have as a resource that can maybe pick up some of it? Even though I'm not saying like everybody, I hear a lot of people get worried. our community providers can't do it either. It's like, no, I realize that. Like sometimes we're the ones who provide that funding. And at the same time, they may have funding that they can serve like a small group of people. And that's huge, right? That can go a really long way. But again, what what can we control and what can't we? And the things we can control, lean in, right? Lean in and have those hard conversations. figure out what it is we can do to support the people who need us most.

[31:20]  And I truly think it's the relationship, right? Like continuing to keep those relationships going and alive. the

[31:20]  Mm-hmm.

[31:20]  conversations, right? As long as you keep people kind of engaged in the conversations as well. And I say that from just a nonprofit standpoint of leading my own nonprofit. I think I see sometimes organizations fall to the wayside, but I say, Well, how good has your communication been out? Like are we sharing the impact stories? Are we engaging with our donors? Are we saying thank you? Are we just you know, those little small things truly do make a difference? I hear people all the time says, I I wanted to give, I just didn't even know that you guys exist or, you know, no one was keeping up with me. Do you think those are some of the things that people should be also tapping into? And is there other things that you think organizations should be tapping into?

[31:20]  I think absolutely. The reason I say that is because as a government agency, like I don't do philanthropic work. I don't go ask people to give donations to me, right? Like that's typically

[31:20]  Mm-hmm.

[31:20]  not what we do. We have one group that's called our Give Center so that when folks come in if they're really desperate, we can give them some, you know, basic hygiene items and some food that's gonna get them through the next day or two. Like we can give those kinds of things and we'll take donations there. But people want to give. The people who even the people who don't have a lot to give, they want to give. And

[31:20]  Yeah.

[31:20]  those community partners are huge resources and are able to really connect with community ev way differently than I can even. Right. Like I might be there to be able to support somebody, but what I can actually actually not what I can do, but how I can engage is very different. There's a lot of distrust of government. I don't care who you are. Doesn't it doesn't really matter the political climate. We're the government. So not everybody trusts us to be there for them and really offer what is needed. However, those community organizations, they're in the neighborhoods. They're talking to these people. They trust them. It's like they can offer so much because they do have that relationship and they're so connected to their community. If they could just continue those relationships, reach out for the help, be really specific about what you do and how you can provide it so that people are not leave, you know. Looking at your organization to donate and they're like, Well, what do you do exactly? It's like, be clear about what I do, who I serve, and what my purpose is. and wow, the impact you can have on community in that way is just amazing. Things I

[31:20]  Yeah.

[31:20]  could never do as a government agency.

[31:20]  I agree. I agree. Yeah, you gotta just I think the more that you stay consistent, the more you stay on top of those conversations, the trust building happens, right? Because okay,

[31:20]  Absolutely.

[31:20]  so they're not just another government entity, right? These this is this is different. I think non profits, while we are all part of the government entity, we have your five one C three, you are that. We're just a extension of it a lot of the times. while we do have to follow their guidelines, there are also those things that we've built within our own organizations that create that That trust factor. People just need to know about us. and we just gotta stay

[31:20]  Absolutely.

[31:20]  on top of those things. Once that falls to the wayside, your money goes elsewhere. They're gonna find other organizations to kind of give it to. So I think more than ever just staying strong, staying consistent. I mean, if we got through the pandemic, me mean we can I think we can get through these times, right? I mean

[31:20]  Right. We did some pretty amazing things together.

[31:20]  collaboration, I definitely think should be happening more than ever nowadays. I I I don't know why Sometimes I hope I wish that leaders could drop their egos and realize we're strong together. Are you experiencing some some leaders that you feel should be at the table, but maybe haven't you don't gotta say a name, but you know, I don't know if this is just a me thing here in Orlando. Do you think that that's what leaders should be doing? Is kind of dropping egos and and partnering up.

[31:20]  I'm trying to think about that question, 'cause sometimes I don't know if in our sphere it's ego or it's politics.

[31:20]  Hmm. Okay. Okay. It could be a little bit both.

[31:20]  Sometimes I think pol yeah, it can be both for sure. Like there can be they

[31:20]  Yeah.

[31:20]  can be wrapped really tightly together for sure.

[31:20]  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[31:20]  but I do feel like we're up against a lot of interesting political views and conversations that are kind of holding us back a little bit. And that does get

[31:20]  Yeah. No, I can agree.

[31:20]  really challenging when the resources

[31:20]  I can agree.

[31:20]  just aren't there to support all the wonderful things we want to be doing.

[31:20]  Tough times. But Mimi, you can I can only imagine while we can't speak for the whole organization or for others, there's there's this maybe thing you want to see out before you hang up the boots at some point. I can imagine you've still got years to go, but what is that thing that you would love to see happen within your own organization and for people that you serve? What is those goals?

[31:20]  I think the thing that we are grappling with right now is resources are limited. That is just what it and when I say resources, I have to say it's it's money. Money is limited and money is what makes everything happen. And it's

[31:20]  Mm-hmm.

[31:20]  limited. So how do we use the money we do have the best way we can and serve the most with the resources we have, but at the same time those who are most in need? Right? We want to be the safety net. We want people to get that leg up. They do have to have some self motivation, some self-drive to get going. But what can we do to just give them that cushion to kind of help launch them again? Right? Get them to where they need to be and not rely on us entirely for generations. That's really hard. The system isn't built for that necessarily. so then how do we build community round post to give them the confidence, the Help build that resilience, give them

[31:20]  Mm-hmm.

[31:20]  the resources they may need and be there when they need us and help them grow and be self-sustaining because I think everybody wants that. Like that is a really comfortable, confident, proud place to be, to be like, I'm on my own and I'm making it work. I may not have everything the Joneses have, but I'm making it work for me. And I think the more we can build a system to do that, the better off.

[31:20]  I love that you say that. Like, don't look next door and see what they have. Like, that's it could look good from the outside, but even internally, there's still some things that are truly going on, right? Yes. I say that all the time. That is definitely the glitch and the glamour. But behind

[31:20]  Yeah, don't pay attention to their Facebook feed. It's not real. Yes.

[31:20]  that, there's a whole different person. And a lot of times there is struggle that got them there, right? Like there is still that consistency. And people always ask me in the line of work, like, you look so successful. What does it look like? I say, I just had to stay consistent. And even then I I still feel like there's so much more that I would love. But I've had to learn of what is it I truly need and what do I want? Right. And really focus on the things that you need and not so much on the things that you you want.

[31:20]  Right.

[31:20]  and I think once you realize, man, I got everything I need, life, life is good. You know, you you are successful

[31:20]  Yeah.

[31:20]  in those in those moments.

[31:20]  And you're gonna fall down.

[31:20]  Yeah.

[31:20]  You are gonna make mistakes, you're gonna screw up, you're gonna fall down, you're gonna make the wrong decision, and you reevaluate and you get back up and keep going. Don't

[31:20]  Yeah.

[31:20]  don't let any one mistake just take you down and say, This is where I'm gonna stay.

[31:20]  Hundred percent. I say life is like a roller coaster. And if you're not having that roller coaster ride, is it even fun? Is it worth it? Right. I I want the ups and downs. I know

[31:20]  Is it even life? Like what's happening?

[31:20]  you said you're a mom earlier and as we start wrap up, what would you want your kids to just know about mom, about who she is and you know, just the legacy that you want to leave behind.

[31:20]  Yeah, for my kids, I wanna know that I am always there for you, but I will not do for you. You need to

[31:20]  Mm.

[31:20]  do for yourself. You need to learn how to live a life and be a contributing member to society and I will always be your backdrop, but I will never be your savior.

[31:20]  Come on, Mimi. I love that. Come on. Let these kids know. No, it is it's so good. I I think you know, for like someone like myself, it's like I didn't have much and I think as millennials we want to give them everything, but are we really, you know, being of disservice to them or are we being of service? Yeah. So I'm trying to find that

[31:20]  It is true. Give them the independence.

[31:20]  balance.

[31:20]  They can do more than you're giving them credit for. Make them do it. Right. And as a mom, I want

[31:20]  Hundred percent.

[31:20]  to do everything for them. I have to tell myself every day they can do this by themselves. You don't have to do that.

[31:20]  Yeah, no a hundred percent. Mimi, thank you so much for your time. I do want

[31:20]  Yeah.

[31:20]  to make sure we respect your time. Where can people find more information? Like you guys are doing so much. What's the website? Are you guys on social? And even drop your LinkedIn if you want someone to just personally contact you if they have info.

[31:20]  Yeah, sure. I can do all I mean nothing is up right now for me to go to, but Denver Human Services, you can just Google us. It'll pop up, the city and county of Denver. There's lots of information there. I'm happy to give just send me an email of what I can give. We can pop it up there. but yeah, we're happy to help anybody in any way that we can. We can't help all in the way that they want to be helped, but we will do our best.

[31:20]  Love it. Thank you so much, Mimi. And that website, for those that are still watching, listening, it is Denvergov.org. So if you guys want to know more information of what's happening in your own cities or even around you and how you'd be a part of it, Denvergov.org. My name's Ephraine. This has been Mimi. We appreciate you guys so much for watching and listening. And we'll catch you on the next episode. Later.