Why do we hate our jobs? | HR Heroes S1 E1

[0:00]  a positive environment means feeling comfortable being yourself your authentic human self and I if I was writing this down human would be in capital letters and bold print and that is one thing that I stress to the new hires in these checkin chats is that at our organization it's okay to be a human first your whole authentic self and then an employee after and it's okay to not be okay we have a very important conversation

[0:47]  happening because this is a brand new episode of our HR hero series and today I have Michelle coric Walker with me she is a HR Swiss army knife she currently works with an organization called on source Communications she is a former assistant faculty member at the US Department of Veteran Affairs which is absolutely amazing um a human resources administrator for a dental company and more importantly if you're on LinkedIn she is a social Saturday Squad member Michelle welcome to the show thank you so much for being here thank you so much for having me I feel really honored and privileged to be here speaking on things that I get really excited about which is HR which is HR you know one of the biggest things that you and I connect on was the current condition or I would say the landscape of what HR is to so many

[1:36]  people in this world right we connected and talked about how so many organizations are pushing for technology and Automation and all these different things and you being in the it space I think this is a very interesting conversation because it seems like I saw this on um you know a previous conversation that we had you said the larger an organization gets the less human it feels and so when you're in the HR space but you're also Al in a technology company right providing IT services how are you really dealing with the misconceptions that HR is I would say something of a punishment instead of the people forward embracing encouraging supporting organization role that it really is yes so there's a really negative stigma around HR being the higher Fire Company you know group of people who just kind of sits in the

[2:26]  corner looming and waiting for the next person to get the can and I mean that unfortunately is a role of the job to do terminations and things like that but that is not what human resources is and I'm hoping that our conversation today can kind of shed some light on what a good human resources department and a strong team looks like for HR and I just have to say my team that I work with amazing the best people ever so I had to put it out there for everybody to know that one source's HR team is so awesome and we all complement each other really well and work well together but the fact that

[3:14]  we are an IT company and you know it is a corporate business and lots of organizations as they grow they do lose that people Centric aspect of it and I think it's extremely important no matter where we have employees we have several remote employees that you know work all across the us but you can still put the human aspect in there for example people want to correspond a lot by email which is really great and it's a helpful tool but so is teams so is zoom so is slack any platform that allows you to have face-to-face contact I think it's really helpful to bring that human aspect back it allows you to kind of understand the person learn the person and not just speak to them over

[4:04]  email or on a team's chat so I think having a video is is very helpful too I completely agree and it's interesting you know some of I was having I was recording a another podcast with a different guest um a little bit earlier in the day and she had talked about she envies some of these Technology based companies because it seems like they have the right foot forward when it comes to the people Centric nature of their business and you mentioned slack there now I heard in a podcast recently that slack has a huge saying on the wall where all of their employees are it says work hard then go home because slack burnout is a real thing because we're always connected to it they don't encourage their employees to constantly be communicating back and forth but they really lean into the human element of

[4:52]  them disconnecting from work which I think is an interesting dichotomy that some of the technology companies have been the most human Centric in the process it's really tough to disconnect when everything is centered around that technology I also struggle with that a lot of my team struggles with that a lot of the other teams in the organization struggle with that because it's always in our face it's so accessible it's so easy and I think a lot what we need to do is set boundaries and have those office hours and really stick to those unless it's of course an emergency if there's an emergency we need to address that but having having technology in your face all day having teams messages in your face all day or slack in your face all day can burn you out it's can

[5:41]  be very stressful when you have 40 notifications going off and you're you know heavy into a task so um there are tasks that need to get done of course but maybe having o Open Office hours or something of that like or setting your status to do not disturb so you can kind of focus and and take a step away and taking a break get up and take a break it's important to kind of clear that mental space a little bit absolutely and I know that at you've taken some gigantic steps in making sure that you have the human connection right at one source and so in our previous conversation you talked about some of the Tactical strategies that you implement to create a more human Centric connection with your team now when we

[6:29]  talk about HR a lot of people say you got to eliminate b or barriers to communication and there has to be an open door and people have to feel comfortable but a lot of people hear those things but they don't understand how to actually Implement them so I'd love for you to talk about your implementation of your check-in chats that we previously talked about because this is so powerful and it's really something that will deliver a lot of value to the audience if they're looking for ways to engage with their team as well so I think a lot of people are really familiar with stay interviews or the unfortunate exit interview you but I think we're really missing the mark on a really important group of people new hires their wealth of information number one number two you want to be able to check in on the employee experience so we can kind of mitigate where we're having any difficulties challenges and

[7:17]  um reduce turnover so you know earlier this year my team we kind of sat down and and tried to think about other things that we could Implement and I came up with what I call like you said check-in chats they're informal they're not meetings per se because you know the dreaded oh my gosh there's a meeting that just popped up from HR o I'm getting the can I want to remove that stigma I want people to see somebody from the HR team's name to pop up and not have a panic attack so the checkin chats have been really beneficial I feel to our organization and and easily implemented in other organizations so I do do the medic Cadence of 3 weeks 6 weeks and 9 weeks for the purpose of checking in to see what Milestones

[8:06]  they're hitting and to make sure that each one of those Milestones that they're at they are progressing and doing well so at the at the first visit we kind of talk about hey this is informal I always start with this is informal so that way they know that they can kind of relax and not feel tense and just to let them know that the HR team no matter which one of us it is we're all here to support them and whoever they are comfortable going to with any issue um that that they're able to do that even though each of us specializes in a specific area it doesn't matter we work so well together that we'll figure it out for them and immediately you can start seeing that anxiety release a little bit and then I'm just kind of

[8:54]  naturally goofy anyways so I try to cut up with them a little bit build that Rapport that way it helps them feel more comfortable in the future if they need to come to somebody for an employee relations issue or talk through anything a concern with a manager a concern with access level they're not getting something that they need so it's it's a very simplistic addition to the workflow of HR and it's been incredibly beneficial and just Priceless for our team and our organization and I think it really kind of emphasizes right the human connection right that we talk about right and I use this example when I talk to different types of businesses they ask Keenan are you guys a B2B business with Francis are you a b

[9:43]  Toc business and I always say we're a PTP business right it's people working with people and that doesn't matter if you're a large organization a small team if you're an individual whatever it is I feel like we just need that human connection to be able to feel safe to be able to feel heard recognized and validated more so especially as a new hire like you're talking about giving people the field the floor to be able to voice concerns and then having that Cadence of every three weeks that check-in chats are just like so fundamental towards building the momentum towards comfortability and that's something that I've really admired about you know you and your style since we started getting to know each other yeah it's it's been really fun I I was a little bit nervous about it at first because I hadn't ever done anything like that but it's been so positive for the new hires that I couldn't imagine not doing it um it also

[10:31]  kind of allows us like I said earlier to shed light on if we have a broken process during the onboarding process or anything like that and just you know it really helps build that Rapport and they just seem to really have taken very well to it and I'm I'm extremely pleased absolutely you know one of the things that I think about because our mission here at Francis is to spread more positivity in the world right and we really EMP emphasize enabling people with easy access to mental Wellness Resources messages of encouragement and positivity because often you know from the male perspective especially we don't often get those things from our comrades from our team members from our family from our social group and so I want to understand a little bit more about what you just said it's been a positive

[11:18]  impact on your organization and your team members what does positivity mean to you from your organization's perspective I would have to say positivity means having a good employee experience no matter where in the process you are brand new semi- brand new extremely tenured or whatnot um a positive environment means feeling comfortable being yourself your authentic human self and I if I was writing this down human would be in capital letters and bold print and that is one thing that I stress to the new hires in these checkin chats is that at our organization it's okay to be a human first your whole authentic self and then an employee after and it's okay to not

[12:08]  be okay sometimes and I think a positive environment is welcoming it's understanding that every single one of us is uniquely individual and that we Embrace that that it doesn't matter you know where you come from if you can do the job perfect and it doesn't matter if one day you're having a bad day and you need to take some PTO that is okay too so fostering that environment of understanding I think is kind of what sets the tone for positivity in our organization and of course the the person who sits at the top who is our CEO Tim he's he's fantastic you know one of the things that I was really I wouldn't say caught off guard by but I was really encouraged by when we first had our conversation was how supportive

[12:57]  leadership was of of innovation in the form of check-in chats and creating that human- centered I would say experience for the employees which I think is amazing and over the last couple years I think a lot of different organizations have gotten a lot of publicity in a negative way for the way in which they handle things like employee termination when they handle having a down quarter so they have to cut 1,200 20,000 jobs and a lot of that negativity right is kind of voiced through HR and that is something that is concerning for me because of the mission that you kind of outlay in being a human Centric organization and so my question for you is when it comes to accessibility to support other than the check-in chats how do you guys emphasize that in your

[13:43]  organization so people don't think that only coming to HR is a bad thing or I can only talk about these check-in chats how do you enhance the ability for them to access you guys so technology sending messages hey I need to chat about something we really do try to keep some office hours open and the one thing that I will say about our organization and our specific HR department is that when there's any sort of employee relations issue that is the top of priority other things will get moved and have gotten moved in order to be able to have that immediate support for somebody who might be struggling or going through a really rough time or needs to talk through something so I think that's important is being available to people when they need

[14:32]  it and not just putting it on the back burner and saying I'll let you know when I'm available it might be too late at that point so I think the the lack of availability that places have is uh a little astounding honestly I understand we all have things that have to get done tasks that have to get done but you can make 10 15 20 minutes to talk through an issue with somebody I think that that you know and I talk about that flexibility kind of from my perspective really turns into the idea in my mind of like personalization right a lot of organizations have some Sops and some standard operating procedures and the policies and procedures but those don't feel very personalized to our individual needs and so how do you kind of look at personalization of support as being

[15:20]  something that's incredibly important for you guys as well I think that's kind of a tough question um providing this support I mean you can definitely provide resources to people but I really am a big proponent of the time spent huge and that accessibility like I mentioned before I think there is nothing above that that is more important and being able to set yourself available for that and and kind of setting that tone at the beginning and um the purpose of the check-in chats to assure them that we've got your back always reach out to to us no matter what it is so I think building that relationship at the beginning is critical it's just Absolut pivotal and it's necessary and it it is something

[16:10]  that is so helpful for employees to know I've got somebody else besides a supervisor or a manager that can talk through something so I just feel like that human element is really key and have you been a part of organizations to be named that haven't been able to emphasize that I would say that aspect of the human connection and what were some of the challenges that you had to face as a leader in some of these type of environments where maybe you didn't have the support from the top who wanted you to innovate and do things differently what were some of the challenges that I'm sure so many other HR leaders who were going to listen and see this um have experienced as well I've I'm going to say that I've had the pleasure of working at what many would label as toxic environments and I say

[16:59]  pleasure because it has really given me a lot of insight to things that I need for my future workplaces and things like that what I never want to work in again and things that I can bring to light and say you know hey this is not a great idea because it doesn't provide this for employees so I'm glad that I've had those experiences because it enables me to better help shape some initiatives and talk through new things to enrich the employee experience with my team and um the the support from leadership is huge I've had lots of ideas that could have been implemented very easily not at the company that I'm with let me be

[17:46]  really clear um in previous roles where the Antiquated mindsets take over and the this is how we've always done it type of mentality puts the stop of immediately to a new idea or even to the point where toxic leaders if an idea didn't come from somebody who had a specific title it wasn't going to be entertained even if it was Earth shatteringly awesome and could have increased productivity exponentially it it didn't matter and I am extremely excited about the company that I work for and and my direct team and leadership because they are so encouraging and are so excited about trying to innovate and find new

[18:35]  ways create efficiencies and things like that and I really think that leaders need to take a look in the mirror sometimes and understand that each one of us is human and remember that and understand that when employees are having a rough time and they come to you and they want to talk through something so I'm hoping that that answered your question absolutely 100% yeah absolutely you know um when we talk about the word human one of the things I think is a shared experience in today's world more so than ever right is struggles when it comes to Wellness and mental health so I know that the world is more stressful we're surrounded by more negativity it seems like something new is happening in

[19:22]  the news that can kind of raise our cortisol levels and managing work plus the real world the economy inflation all that kind of stuff creates more stress and so what are some innovative ways in which you guys as an organization have kind of thought about mental health and wellness from the employee well-being perspective have you guys gotten creative or like what are you guys thinking about to be able to overcome these challenges that are obviously still coming at us and yes that that is definitely something that a lot of people are struggling with because we are in the I need it now type of environment and the stresses and the go go go the hustle hustle hustle and then you have work and you have home and you have other things and sometimes the only constant for people is work and I think we have an incredible responsibility to

[20:12]  our humans I'm going to say that our humans because that's what we are we're employees yes but our humans to be able to try to create an environment that is supportive um not only just supportive but understanding and that to me is free there is no excuse for companies to not be able to do that it costs nothing so that number one is a huge initiative to mental health is creating that safe space creating a space where individuals are allowed to not be okay sometimes providing that support but also something that we kind of Incorporated earlier this year were mental health days and it's awesome it it has really

[21:02]  increased people's mental well-being there's going to be times where you may not need a whole day but you may get to lunchtime and you got a phone call and your mind is just blown something tragic has happened and you you just are not in the right mental space we encourage people use the mental health day use half the day that they in increments that way so that way you don't have to burn up an entire day if you don't need it and the addition of that has been so positive for our employees and also for when I'm speaking to potential candidates they are just their mind is blown oh my gosh I've never heard of that I think that's wonderful and it is it's it's nice and we actually encourage people to use them that's another thing

[21:50]  is allow the people to use the time exactly I mean because if the time doesn't get used it goes wasted it do right and it's like we have to be able to feel comfortable to be able to take that break and that's one of the things that you know we focus on here at Francis is creating these micro opportunities or these breaks in our Wellness so we send a daily text of positivity encouragement support or a wellness exercise to somebody and sometimes in this busy World asking people to talk to a therapist or a counselor even download an app is too difficult right and so it's an amazing I would say opportunity that a little break throughout your day can help you kind of change your mood change your thought change your thought pattern and approach your situations differently which is amazing now I also know that you talked about you've had the privilege of working in some toxic work environments so when you're in those

[22:39]  toxic work environments my question is is at that point in time did you emphasize your own mental wellness and what role has mental Wellness played in keeping you as calm cool and collected and outgoing as you are I did not exercise my own mental Wellness that is something that for many years I put aside because of that hustle and grind and that unwelcoming environment just to kind of provide a little insight on some of my personal experiences my first job after college I had just started so yes I was brand new I just turned 21 not even two weeks later my mom died and two days after my mom died the boss called me and said

[23:30]  when are you coming back to work and I was devastated I was broken I was not okay but I went back to work and you know several other types of really difficult times have come up in my life and I was not allowed to not be okay I was supposed to be a robot and just show up and not have an emotion not have time taken off so I did not prioritize that and I think that once I joined the organization that I now am in that allows that it took me a really long time and still it's something that I'm unlearning there toxic behaviors and the more that I'm unlearning these the more

[24:20]  that I'm able to help others unlearn and I do that also in the check-in chats we chat through things sometimes personal things are shared that does not it's like you know what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas well what happens in the checkin chat it stays in the checkin chat and I've had people open up and really Express things that are going on and I always just try to tell them that it's it's okay to not be okay this is why we have these mental health days use them so I think my unfortunate experiences has enabled me to be all the more sensitive and successful in helping others find that good mental space and I encourage them to take breaks throughout

[25:10]  the day obviously we can't sit and watch The Flicks all day we have work to do but get up and walk around the building a little bit get some fresh air that's what I do um no Marathon working we can work a few hours on some things but then get up clear your mind get a little exercise in get some fresh air it's okay to ask your coworker how their weekend was you don't have to sit in your little box of Works Space and never come out and communicate so for me that's that's been my experiences and my mental space is is getting much better and I feel like this is a perfect transition to my next comment well first of all I am so sorry about your experience and I know that other people have experienced similar things and often when we have traumatic experiences like like that we

[25:58]  think that we're so alone and we're isolated but the more and more I talk about The Human Experience of life in general I find that we are more and more alike and I just want to say I'm so sorry for your loss of your mom I know that that was something that was really hard and I'm sorry that the leadership of the organization that you were in wasn't fostering a supportive and positive environment for you to be able to navigate through those things which is really heartbreaking now it's one thing for HR to be the champions for these types of initiatives right and the culture that they're trying to Foster but what is the role in leaders at the sea level and managers and everybody else in fostering that supportive environment because I know that your leadership was incredibly supportive of you coming on the podcast so that's a great form of support but what role do those individuals play in kind of I would say waterfalling down the emphasis

[26:46]  in prioritization of positivity in a supportive work environment and it absolutely starts from the top down and again kudos to our CEO Tim for being able to trickle down that type of mentality um I think that's what's really important is that that type of environment or that type of organizational culture is talked about in the SE level meetings the director meetings manager meetings things like that and um is is basically something that they've got to discuss and work towards and maybe having the direct leadership in the SE Suite kind of level executive positions

[27:35]  have some sensitivity training or something of the nature to be able to come back and share with their leaders and their team members so then that way that trickles down like a waterfall and then it kind of Flows In all levels of employees and and humans are able to kind of feel that environment and and that's that's what happens that's what happens and I think it's important for them to be able to find resources and tools and be willing to put the effort with it and be willing to spend the time on it and that's what I really feel is the new form of leaders who are leading our organizations today I know I grew up in a culture and as of you you saw leaders who were given so much praise for the people who were the tyrants

[28:22]  right the people who were Cutthroat they didn't want to listen to the employees you were just another number burn you if I have to to make sure that the mission is accomplished and I think that today especially with the younger generation coming into our space they want to be validated they want to be heard they want to be seen and they want to be valued and I think the culture of leadership has to change if we're going to be able to get to the next space right and I think as my next point that I want to talk about is over the last couple months um let's call it since November of 22 that's which is more than a couple months but a year now um chat GPT exploded onto the scene right it's a new form of Technology it's a new form of how things are innovating and it's happening so quickly now I pulled some questions that the audience would like

[29:09]  to have answered or topics of discussion before we hopped on our episode today and one of the topics of discussion which I think is going to be really relevant to you is technology is creating more trouble than good so basically recognizing technology has the ability to make us more efficient what is your perspective especially being in the it space that technology plays in our lives today and do you think it's good do you think it's bad because you're so ingrained in the space I think technology is necessary it allows us to be more efficient it allows us to create efficiencies work through things to be able to make everybody's life a little easier take the load off but I also think that it can be Troublesome because we lose that people Centric really

[29:57]  relationship we lose that humanistic touch and I think it's a balance and it's a difficult balance and I really feel that leaders especially need to be aware of that and check in with their people to make sure even if it's if it's a remote employee check in with their face on on on some sort of Technology device that allows you to see faces if of course if they're uncomfortable with it that's one thing but it is a necessary evil as we attach you know words to to other things we have to have it in order to move forward to be um Innovative and and things like that but we have to put the individualistic back into it as well and understand that every single one of us no matter what role we have what title

[30:45]  we have we're important and one team one dream it doesn't happen without every single one of us I think um you know one of the blessings that I've had now that I'm getting a little bit older is I can recognize patterns right and when chat GPT came onto the scene it reminded me a lot of when I was younger and the internet came out and people are like the internet's a crazy thing it's not going to be good for us and I think more people today need to instead of having a yes or no attitude need to have a maybe attitude and that sense of curiosity is what really creates opportunity because when we explore opportunities we're more willing to see different perspectives we're willing to I would say adhere in advance the way technology can be integrated into our lives and I'm so glad the way that you answered that

[31:31]  question because it is a necessary evil and unfortunately this is not going to be something that's going to go away We're not gonna be able to reverse time and go back to when we all had the phones on the wall in the household you know what I mean which I do kind of Miss honestly I'm sure that'll come back at some point in time but I think that maybe attitude yeah exactly is something uh that we could all be a little bit more proficient about I think that's something that's going to be really necessary honestly I think we have to be disciplined as well and allow ourselves to step away from technology when it's overwhelming for myself included I years ago I got rid of Facebook I do not have any other form of social media besides LinkedIn and I tell you what that makes a tremendous difference in my life it's so stressful all the time to be on it it's great because it does provide

[32:21]  information and lots of other Technologies do but you have to be willing as a person to walk away from it too and know the limit and not test that limit when it's too much one of my um interesting theories I guess I would say is because we spend so much time with our devices right we look at these things as being a trusted source of information but unfortunately they're so close to us that sometimes they're inside of our defense mechanisms right and so when you're on Instagram Facebook Tik Tok all the other kind of stuff you're getting bombarded from so many different angles that it's difficult to understand if things are trusted or they're not and you're right it does bring so much stress into your world when you're being bombarded constantly from so many different angles and so I do worry about our younger generation who has not

[33:09]  had an experience in a time that was before because they don't understand what it can be like if you eliminate those things and how much more peaceful life can be which is a really interesting perspective that I think you and I are both privy to but the future Generations are not going to have that opportunity because a lot of people you know toss an iPad in front of their kid as soon as they're oneyear old and they're getting inundated by all these things and they grow up in this world of overc consumption which I think is a cool thing but it also has definitely like you said a Razor's Edge on the back end that it can definitely cut you if you're not careful it does we're all over stimulated because of it our minds don't stop you sit down for two seconds you're picking the phone up and it's a little disturbing because it didn't used to be that way if you did a poll on when was the last time that you called

[33:59]  somebody pick the phone up dial the number or went in your contacts because none of us remember phone numbers now we're all lazy in our brains because of technology I bet you that the vast majority of people would say that it's been a while since they've actually called somebody it's too easy it's too accessible um and I I think we need to be really careful about how much we're immersing ourselves with technology especially the younger generation because they're basically walking around like you said at at one with technology in their face we need to um have boundaries we need to set T time aside for a mental break including adults like it's it's so important to clear your mental space and not have people

[34:50]  chitchatting on every platform in your ear this is it this is it this is it this is it you you don't know what the trusted source is so obviously number one do research on your sources number two step away it's not going to hurt you to walk away from your phone for 30 minutes every few hours I promise it'll be right there and I feel like that is something that is so interesting and I'm definitely going to run that poll because I want to find the when we release this I want to be able to toss it in there and kind of see the results of this as well which I think is going to be very interesting um but I also heard on a podcast the other day this one guy was talking about when was the last time when you just sat there and didn't have YouTube running in the background or Spotify or music or something happening when's the last time

[35:37]  you gave your brain time to actually just be there and to be with your thoughts and I know that's scary for a lot of people um my per I had a personal experience yesterday um the Spotify year-end rap just came out where they talk about your consumption of music over the year and they show your stats and everything like that and I had 29,000 minutes of music listen to this year and I thought thought that was a lot I talked to my sister who's also my co-founder in my business and she had 229,000 day or minutes of Music listened to this year and I said why do you think you listen to music so much and she said I think I have anxiety of Silence so every single day I want to hear music and that's 184 days of the year so far where music has been playing in her environment and as we talk about you know your ability to just be silent and kind of sit there with your thoughts I think a lot of people are getting away from that because our culture is

[36:24]  overstimulated like you said which is interesting um to kind of think about from the perspective of everybody who's listening today if you kind of have numbers like that maybe what's going on you know underneath have numbers that are out of this world I I just happen to love music and I do better when it's playing but when I go take my mental break for a quick second a quick spin around the building I'm not taking music I'm taking me myself and I and we're walking it around the building and we're being quiet and it really does help kind of bring a freshness and a a sense of of relief because you're letting all of that go for a few minutes and it's so important for us to do that even like I said me I'm a huge music lover um I listen to it so much my my stats would probably be ridiculous but we have to

[37:13]  take that time to let our brains rest take in take in a few minutes of fresh air look at the birds look at the trees all these beautiful things that we have in nature that we don't have to pay for for enjoy it enjoy it take the time for yourself it's worth it it really is you know Michelle this has been an absolutely amazing time being able to spend time with you today I know we've talked about some incredibly important topics Innovation which I think is incredibly important to me um the way in which you're doing it with your check-in chats the support from your leadership the culture that you guys are building and helping your leaders trickle down that sense of positivity within the organization and how important it TR truly is I think is absolutely phenomenal and you are in the seat of

[38:01]  somebody who is having dramatic impact on the culture of work today but also the people more importantly the humans who work in your organization and I just want to say thank you for all of your work and I'm sure I can thank you for everybody else who you've been able to engage with because I know those check-in chats have meant so much more than just a small conversation but more importantly creating that safe space like you talked about to allow people to be their best self and so for the last couple minutes here I would love for you to tell us a little bit more about your organization how we can find more about what you guys do as well and if you have any leaving notes for any other HR leaders who find themselves in you know Troubled Waters these days in their organization what would those things be so obviously you mentioned at the beginning on Source Communications is

[38:48]  the best place ever so if anybody's looking for life cycle management the communication life cycle management One Source is it people let's do it let's make some connections um I think our organization is really great and I'm excited to be a part of it but in regards to other leaders that might be struggling if it if they can take a break to avoid burnout take the break the work will be there take a half a day take a full day lean on your team delegate I mean obviously don't delegate to the point where you have nothing and they have everything but take the time for yourself to get your own mental space well because if your mental space

[39:38]  is not well and it's jammed up you can't help others unjam their mental space and I think that's really important and maybe talking to other leaders in other departments I'm not sure you know each organization runs a little bit differently but stressing the importance of fostering an environment that is welcoming and safe it costs nothing and it's so impactful and it's pivotal and just that alone can help reduce turnover which is an extremely large cost to a company and I think that's really really important and one thing that I think is really important to mention too that it's a balance we have to balance the employee satisfaction and experience but

[40:27]  we have to do that and not forsake the business needs as well if we're all hanging out making s'mores in the circle and nothing's getting done that doesn't work either so for HR leaders and and other professionals to know that there's a balance and it's not perfect it's never going to be perfect but it doesn't get any better if you don't try so make the time spread the love create a positive environment where people feel welcome and safe is is really just it's so crucial so crucial to the experience I could not say it any better and so leaving your words and re-emphasizing them if you don't have up here solid you're never going to have an

[41:14]  out here solid and being able to use coste effective ways of creating a safe environment means showing up and being that person who you want to see across the table from you and those things don't cost any money and so Michelle thank you so much for your time today I really appreciate it guys that's been another episode of the heart and hustle podcast and this was a special one because we talk about the importance of the human element in business and Michelle did an amazing job of showing how her organization is taking the steps necessary to push all of our businesses forward and so if you guys want to learn more about her organization I definitely suggest you guys search for her Michelle corac Walker on LinkedIn as well she's an amazing individual and Michelle thank you so much for the time today appreciate it