Why Erin Ryan Believes Community-First Leadership Is the Future of Impact

[0:00]  We don't wait for communities to become inclusive and welcome people with disabilities. Our very presence in the community makes the community inclusive. And so if you think of it that way um you know we are again I just go to this mutual benefit you know employers who are hiring people um businesses who are being um visited by people with disabilities.

[0:36]  um your neighbor, you know, who lives next door, who's supporting their adult child. Um the kids in the classroom that are going to school with your kids who maybe are receiving special ed services, you know, um it it's just something that is far more present in our daily lives. And again, you know, the system sort of 75 years ago was sort of built to kind of segregate and protect people from the world in a in a way that was very um caring and dignified and and built on a foundation of love. And we are shifting into um a perspective of this full inclusion and meaningful interactions with people who are non-disabled and disabled in the community and how that

[1:25]  um how that can benefit everyone but particularly the people with disabilities. Our clients are living longer and longer um partially because of advances in medicine, right? But I think more than that people are living people with ID are living longer because we have invested in um these social determinants of health. All right, guys. Welcome back to a brand new episode of the Heart and Hustle podcast. I'm sitting across the table from another amazing leader here

[2:12]  today and we're going to learn all about their Heart and Hustle. Today we have Aaron Ryan who is the CEO of Shore Community Services. Aaron, welcome to the show. Oh, thanks so much for having me, Kenan. So, Aaron, we have to kind of start off on a heartfelt note today. Before we start talking about the business and everything that you guys have accomplished and how you support the community and the amazing lives that you've impacted, how is your heart doing today?

[2:34]  Oh, I am feeling great today, actually. Um, I just had a moment this morning when I was dropping my kids off to camp. We're on spring break right now. Um, where, you know, my heart just got full watching them walk into the park district building and um have each other's uh back and be there for each other and and go off to a new adventure without me. So, uh that filled my heart up this morning and I've been carrying that with me all day. Oh my gosh, it's an amazing place for us to get started here today. So, you know, one of the things that I recognize about leaders like yourself is often we're either on this path from the very beginning of how long ago we can remember or this is an opportunity that kind of popped into our mind and popped into our lives and we had to take advantage of it. So, my question for you, when your fifth grade teacher asked you, Erin, what are you

[3:20]  going to be when you grow up? Did you say, I'm going to be the CEO of an amazing organization like Shore Community Services, or what did that look like for you? I said I was going to be the boss. Okay, I kid you not. Um, either that or an astronaut or maybe a ballerina. So, you know, just it's an eclectic uh mix of things, but I did have a sense from early on that I would um lead and so I've sought ways to do that and I've had some great examples along the way. What were some of the first examples that you remember? Like I'm talking the earliest times of you being a leader of people following you that you can remember.

[3:57]  Well, I was a leader in my family. I'm the oldest of six children. Um so as a leader in my family just sort of by default um but also at school I you know one one thing that I remember clearly is that I believe it was fourth grade or something uh my school didn't have a school newspaper and so a friend of mine and I decided uh that we would start a school newspaper. So we got permission from our teacher to use the photocopy machine. We drew comics. We wrote articles. We interviewed teachers. Um, and we um photocopied it and distributed it to every classroom. And it was great fun. I think we did two or three issues before it it kind of got shut down. Um, but it was great fun and it was uh it was an early lesson in sort of, you know, organizing people towards a common goal. And what were some of those like

[4:45]  early aha moments where you realized like, hey, we can actually do something bigger than ourselves in fourth grade, right? we can be the voice of the school. We can interview teachers. What was that process like for you? Yeah, I think that um very very early in my childhood, maybe I was 6 months to three years old, I lived actually in another country. Um and I think that very early experience kind of um connected me to something bigger than myself. Um even as I grew up in my small town, rural Kansas town. Um later on I always kind of knew that the world was much bigger and people had much different experiences.

[5:20]  They looked different from me. The weather was different. They ate different foods, right? And having um that experience kind of kept me connected to the bigger picture from the very beginning. And so um that's how I think I've sort of developed my big picture thinking. Well, I know that you spent a good amount of your career working in, you know, how do I say this?

[5:39]  Like population health, community- based health systems as a social worker as well, if I'm not correct. So, how did you kind of make that decision to go in that direction professionally at such a young age? Was that right after college? You have experiences that got you exposed to that similar to the newspaper or what was that process like for you?

[5:54]  Yeah, I both of my parents worked in healthcare. Um, my father was a physician and my mom was an X-ray tech. So, always working in the community, always working on behalf of and for the benefit of others health. Uh, so that was an early example. Um, I decided after college that I did want to work in social services. I thought at the time that I was kind of getting my feet wet.

[6:16]  Um, and I found a job as a volunteer coordinator at a local community homeless shelter here in Chicago. And working as a volunteer co coordinator gave me great insight into the power of small businesses, faith communities, larger corporations, families coming together to have an impact at the local level. So my job was to match these groups of people or individuals with the service work that we needed done. Um and but I also saw the mutual benefit um of this arrangement, right? Volunteers often said that they got as much or even more out of the experience than the people who were receiving services. And so creating those opportunities for people um who are very in very different circumstances in life to connect

[7:04]  together in an authentic way. um I I learned early on really benefits everyone and so I just pursued a career from there that would help me keep doing that. I mean I feel like it's so amazing helping people navigate the health care system, right? I've been in the space now for over 11 years and I think about how the the health care literacy is not something that everybody truly understands, right? We don't know what services are in our community, how we access them, and so you guys play an incredibly important role of being that connector, if you will, in giving people the information they need to make the best decisions on how they can guide their own lives. Absolutely. Um, I think that's why I pursued, you know, the educational experience to kind of back up my work experience. So social work and then public health um helped me kind of um navigate those systems and

[7:54]  understand how the systems work better so that I could be that bridge between um the the ground level folks who are trying to navigate and the system itself. Um and so I did that for many many years in direct service and then along the way began planning programs, measuring outcomes, creating systems of my own. Um, and then you know the kind of on the side along the way in nonprofits you pick up all these other things, fundraising, human resources, um, and all the business side of things as well. What was it like engaging with, you know, a nonprofit organization, recognizing that in order for you to be a future leader, you had to round out that skill set of fundraising, being able to kind of create programs, and then having like the the templates and the frameworks to actually imprint your

[8:41]  mark on these organizations. What was like what was that like for you? Yeah, I was so fortunate. I spent 15 years of my early career at the same organization. So that organization where I started as volunteer coordinator. I became a a night intake worker at the shelter. I went back to school um for the social work degree, became a case manager, started working more individually with the people experiencing homelessness.

[9:05]  And um because it was a small place, you know, it sort of relied on people wearing multiple hats. And so I just had great mentors and leaders along the way who if I said, "Hey, I'm interested in grant writing. I want to learn how to write a grant." Then they would give me a grant to write, you know. Um or um I remember when I became executive director of that organization and I had a treasurer who for many years uh on the board who had been balancing the books and I said, you know, I need to learn this. So can I just learn QuickBooks and learn how to balance the books and do the budget? And he said, be my guest. Um so you kind of have to step up and ask for it sometimes. Uh but if you if you work in the right place uh you know people will realize that potential in you and they will they'll start feeding you more and more to do.

[9:52]  Do you think that these have been strategic and intentional steps that you've taken that were kind of informing your road map of how you were going to become the leader of an amazing organization like shore services? I think so. I I am a big picture thinker. I think you know that I um for a brief moment in time I would I thought I would go to medical school and I realized that I I had a much bigger picture view of the world and um each person's place in it in order to focus on one part of the body or even one individual person um and their health. And so finding those connections um helps me be curious about the whole 360 degrees of of a thing, you know, whether it's an organization or a social issue. um or or even uh just learning a new skill. I kind of want to

[10:39]  see it from all sides um and then hone in on where I where my skill set can uh do the most uh have the most impact. So I want to double click on two things. Number one, you mentioned curiosity there. So I want to put a pin in that for the conversation. Okay. Uh the first thing I want to refer back to is you say that you're a big picture thinker, right? How did you develop that mindset of looking at the bigger picture outside of yourself and the whole how everything comes together? But beyond that, why is that so important for a leader like you in the position who you are today? Yeah, I think that it would it probably has something to do uh my therapist would probably agree that something to do with early childhood, right? Being uh from a big family um who you know my big family was nestled within a big family. Uh my mom's one of eight children. Uh so big

[11:28]  extended family as well. Um and just always kind of having conversations about the greater good and um and how um you know different choices can affect uh more than just the individual making the choice. It was just something that was kind of rooted in the way that we operated as a family. um always kind of putting the whole um above the individuals and kind of uh that that notion that we are stronger together, right? And we're greater uh than the sum of our parts. So, uh that that was just uh modeled for me very early on and uh you know, I also lived in a small town.

[12:06]  I I mentioned that moved to a big city um after college um and kind of brought that small town mentality with me, right? So um you know it is we are ve all very interconnected in this world um and the strength of any programs that we are operating to benefit others lies in the connections that we make. They're human connections. They're human relationships. Um and and even in a big city, in a huge naughty problem, um it's that's what makes a good program stand apart from a from a not so good program, right? Is those human connections and those um relationships and those networks that are built on the ground

[12:55]  level. It's incredibly refreshing for me to hear you say that because it seems like we need that little sound clip, if you will, as a lesson to how we even approach our communities today in the greater swath of all the division and the individualism and the isolation that people see today, especially because of how social media and everything has the ability to kind of pull us apart.

[13:15]  Recognizing that everything is connected to the bigger picture, um, is something I think is so important. So, I mean, I have to ask the question, do you ever become frustrated, right, with kind of where it seems like it's so easy for everybody to be standing alone and separated and not unified around key elements that impact our community that kind of impact everybody like we've been talking about? Absolutely. I've been, you know, really um the most frustrated in my life when we are uh divided um you know, when we've been trying to create something really good for the community and encountering nimiism not in my backyard uh where people um you know uh don't walk their walk that they talk their talk like we are inclusive and we want everybody here but just not in my backyard. um you know and so that that

[14:04]  is it's really disheartening when that happens. Um and it's really disheartening um when you know all the progress that we've made over time that has been hard fought for and hard won starts getting chipped away. And so, uh, I find strength in coming together again, you know, um, in the developmental disability field in particular, and I think in nonprofits in general, um, we've tended to be kind of siloed and territorial.

[14:33]  Um, and and that is out the window to me, right? Um, we cannot maintain the safety net of services uh, without really being um, in lock step together. And so finding sort of my people wherever I go, whether they're fellow nonprofit leaders or community leaders and anybody who I think um you know, we can mutually benefit each other. I'm out there trying to build those connections.

[15:00]  And that's that's what gets you up in the morning um to keep coming to work even when the headlines are are depressing. Hey, real quick. If you enjoying the podcast, we first want to say thank you and we also just want to give you a little insight of what we're up to at Francis. Some don't even realize that we're working with organizations to help them use AI to create that real human communication experiences. Whe that's actually supporting your your families, those patients or the entire community. We're actually creating tech that connects.

[15:30]  Check it out. Francis.ai. Yeah. I mean, I want to I want to use this as a segue to kind of talk about curiosity, right? when we are curious about how we can come together, create solutions to support the whole person, right, of our community, meaning everybody, every opportunity that we have to surround them with services, like you said, we are stronger together.

[15:50]  It creates a more unified community around the people who need our support the most. And so when you think about I would say the the idea of curiosity did you have a curious moment where you discovered the work that shore services was doing and then we're like hey this is going to be an organization that I was going to work for or how did you kind of discover the organization how do we kind of segue into the work that you're doing today? Sure. Um so I had spent um a lot of time a couple of decades working in that intersection of housing and healthc care homelessness and um I was really looking for a way to leverage that professional experience and and my contacts in a more personal way. Um I have a son he's 11 years old who was diagnosed with cerebral palsy and developmental delay um who really inspired me to kind of

[16:38]  pivot in this in this field. So as a parent, I was already gaining an informal education, a crash course education in navigating the very complex world of services for kids with disabilities, including school services, IEPs, you know, planning for the future. My partner and I are thinking all the time about how to set him up for the best possible future. So when I started to look for a shift in career and I started to think about alignment with my personal values and personal experience, um I I learned about Shore. It's right in my backyard. Um and I knew immediately it was the right place to bring both my personal and professional experience.

[17:20]  So, when you saw the organization, right, and you've got all these skill sets, right, of fundraising and being able to design programs and all of your history in the nonprofit space, what were some of the lowhanging fruit opportunities, I guess, that you saw in your ability with all of your experience to impact the organization favorably? Yeah, so there's there's lowhanging fruit um or tension depending on how you look at it on being the outsider looking in and being the new person, right? So I get a lot of opportunity in this past year that I've been CEO to listen deeply to really understand the rich history of the organization and the legacy that it brings to this work. It's one of the first organizations in our area um to serve folks with um intellectual and other developmental disabilities. And so there's a real um legacy to protect and

[18:08]  build on. And I have a fresh perspective, right? There's lessons maybe from the homeless service uh world which is by the way also a very complex system of funding and service providers and priorities and politics etc. and kind of bring some of that um you know fresh perspective and and new insights into the work and and ask some some questions maybe that because of the longevity of the organization hadn't been asked in a while. Why do we do this the way we do it? Why does it have to be this way? um does it have to be this way? Um and because I'm also a big picture thinker, I think that I I keyed in very early on to what's coming down the road. There's a lot of change coming um in this work with developmental

[18:57]  disabilities that are coming from the federal level, at the state levels, re-shifting of priorities. We're really moving away from um a system of protection, protecting our loved ones, uh to um a a system that really champions individual choice and dignity and risk for people to make choices about their lives. And that's a huge shift. And I I just get really excited about sort of being in on um this moment in time shift because I can, you know, I hope kind of merge and and and come alongside the work that has been done to build towards this future that we're looking towards. So, it's it's a very excit this is exactly as you could tell um what I get excited about um is is not

[19:47]  a stagnant system but a system sort of on the precipice of change and how can I help um guide and usher that in. Yeah. How can you be a catalyst for the change that we need to see right to create services and opportunities to support people how they need to be met. So, I want to talk about the concept of risk really quick. So, I uh was recently listening to a podcast. There's a guy out there his name is Jason Frerieded.

[20:08]  He's the uh CEO of a company called 37 Signals. They built a company or a platform called Base Camp, which is very similar to Slack. It's like a business communication tool, right? Yeah. And Jason was saying, you know, in times of uncertainty, our CEOs and our leaders have to be incredibly skilled at tactfully injecting risk into our organizations. And he said, "Now, what does that mean?" Now, I'm not telling you to change the entire business model and, you know, throw everything by the wayside, but you have to feel comfortable in challenging people to do things differently because maybe we've gotten stagnant and comfortable in how we've always done things. So, how do you think about your role as being a catalyst for injecting risk, thinking about problems differently? How do we attack different challenges and kind of how that's impacted your ability to kind of push the organization forward? Yeah.

[20:57]  So I I um personally am very comfortable with ambiguity. Um and I think that sometimes backfires on me in a leadership role because people really want, you know, some clear um guidance or or clear perspective from their leader. And so it does kind of back backfire sometimes. But I I do try to, you know, just leave space for the unknown and to accept that we won't always have 100% of the information, right? In fact, we almost never do. Um, and you know, I really learned this from my clients over the years, all the people that I've worked with individually to help um, you know, find employment, find housing, um, become uh, meet their individual goals. You know, you know, even in the longest standing

[21:45]  relationships, you rarely have 100% of the information. And so, you have to be able to make decisions to move forward without 100% of the information. You need enough information to make a good decision and you need to be okay with saying that didn't work. Let's do something else, you know, and I try to set up every big change um with that is we we're going to try this and if it doesn't work, we will try something else. Um and you know again working with people in a social service space just teaches you deeply at the core that nothing is undoable and um and there's a lot of different roads to choose and we

[22:35]  can try a different one if this one doesn't work. And so that's the beauty of it is that it is it's trial and error. It's more an art than a science. um both you know on an individual level and an organizational level. So uh so I try I try to kind of model that. At the same time you know we are holding pe you know holding ourselves accountable to the systems that we've put in place.

[22:57]  We're putting in some robust measurement of those systems because I'm not going to abandon something and try and try something new if I don't have data. Right? So, it's it's it's both and and I think really um embracing that as a leader is really important when you think about recognizing that adaptability is a key strength, right, that you have to lean into. And you said something that was really important there, which is like I'm not going to make these decisions without having the data. One of my favorite phrases that I share with my team is the more ways we measure, the more ways we win. So when you came into the organization, did you find that your data strategy was as solid as it could be or did you start really implementing different tools to help you guys gather the information to be able to

[23:44]  communicate the data and the impact you guys are making? Yeah, it's a work in progress. It's definitely um you know there there is data. um whether or not the right people are seeing the data is important because I talked earlier about um uh siloing in as organizations but in internally in an organization we tend to silo too. So finance might have data that the program team isn't seeing. Um and that would be really useful to know how our budget is performing, you know, um or we might have uh program statistics that our fundraising uh department isn't seeing. And so that cross collaboration is so important to make sure um that everyone has the right information to make decisions. Did I lose you? Are you here? No, I'm still

[24:32]  we're still good. This is the beauty of the edit, so no stress. That was that was a great answer, by the way. Um, so the next thing I want to talk about is kind of your personal mindset when you recognize that the landscape of our communities, our government, and everything seems to be a little uncertain. How do you cast a vision right for success to get other people to buy into the impact and the work that you guys are doing daily and the positive impact that you guys are making on the community? Is that other tough for you to cast that vision in the face of uncertainty?

[25:02]  It absolutely is and I think that um again in the developmental disability field we have really relied um over time in our 75 year history not just of shore but of the field you know as a whole we've really relied on those personal connections you know family members have you know somebody has a a son or daughter or a brother or sister or a member of their family that is impacted by intellectual and de developmental disability and therefore they care about the issue. Um so so in the face of the uncertainty that we're that we're facing now with funding and um just um competition for resources. Um it's it's in our interest to make developmental dis disabilities

[25:51]  something that everybody cares about. You don't have to have a personal connection um to the work to recognize how important it is to include people, how beneficial that is for everyone to have meaningful experiences with folks with all who have all different abilities. And so I think uh our work ahead is to bring the issue quite literally the issue of folks who have marginalized voices or are um often forgotten about. Uh bringing their voices to the forefront, but then also ensuring that the the broader community just understands and and recognizes the value that people with intellectual and developmental disabilities bring into every space.

[26:39]  I mean, I think a huge part of this is we have to we have to be incredibly aware that, you know, individuals with disabilities um are a huge part of our community fab fabric. I mean, I talked about some statistics, right, from some of the work that me and my team do. It's like one in 56 children in 2018 were being diagnosed with autism. That number is 1 in 36 as of 2024. And so, when you think about and you look around your community, there are families who are impacted in this space. And so it's not like this is something that is happening every once in a while, but this is somebody who you know, a family member who you know, a colleague, a friend who has a family member who is impacted. And that doesn't mean that that's a negative thing, but we should be aware that this is a part of our community fabric. And I think ignoring that isn't a healthy way to approach how our communities are changing. Absolutely. I I think that's

[27:28]  that it's a it's a great um intro into this idea of community care um and who is part of a care plan, you know, and who um who's invested in the lives of people with disabilities. Um we have 30,000 people in Illinois that are supported by our ID system of services. Um but we estimate that there are many many more people who are sort of uh not registering yet um on the radar of the state system uh because people are living at home longer. They're supported by their families of origin longer. Um they don't necessarily seek services until later in life. Um, and that's important for us to know because people are already part of the community in a

[28:17]  in a far different way than our founders could have ever imagined, right? Um, and because, you know, somebody said something to me and I wish I could give them credit for who it was, but it stuck with me that we don't wait for communities to become inclusive and welcome people with disabilities. our very presence in the community makes the community inclusive. And so if you think of it that way um you know we are again I just go to this mutual benefit you know employers who are hiring people um businesses who are being um visited by people with disabilities.

[29:06]  um your neighbor, you know, who lives next door, who's supporting their adult child. Um the kids in the classroom that are going to school with your kids who maybe are receiving special ed services, you know, um it it's just something that is far more present in our daily lives. And again, you know, the system sort of 75 years ago was sort of built to kind of segregate and protect people from the world in a in a way that was very um caring and dignified and and built on a foundation of love. And we are shifting into um a perspective of this full inclusion and meaningful interactions with people who are non-disabled and disabled in the community. and how that um how that can

[29:56]  benefit everyone but particularly the people with disabilities. our clients are living longer and longer. Um, partially because of advances in medicine, right? But I think more than that, people are living, people with ID are living longer because we have invested in um these social determinants of health. You know, good nutrition, um, stable and safe housing, um, community life, robust and fulfilling community life. um work, uh volunteering in the community, all of this um is what's contributing to to longer life. So, um I'll tell a personal story real quick. I know I'm rambling a little bit, but um I have a twi um a daughter as well. Um my son's twin

[30:47]  sister and she um you know was also 11. She is learning every day and teaching me every day what it means to move through the world. You know, worrying about she has this burden, right, of worrying about protecting her brother, caring for him. But in addition to that burden, she has the privilege and the responsibility of caring for him and protecting him. and she knows more about in what it means to be truly equitable and inclusive and kind um than a lot of adults I know. And so I look at her and I see how she benefits. Right? It's not just about he how he benefits from the

[31:34]  service um of someone caring for him or helping him, but how she benefits and how she's going to take that perspective into the world and make it a better place because of this experience of having a brother who is disabled. So, um take that and scale it up because that's what we at Shore Community Services are trying to do for a whole community.

[31:55]  I mean that's a that's a great example of how a lived experience right is multiplicative and how it impacts the community right we've got generations and I want to talk about this for a second of siblings brothers and sisters right who have the lived experience and caring for and the responsibility for advocating for their loved one and it's like that sense of true empathy understanding and connection to a lived experience is what is going to change our community slowly but surely and that's a great perspective ive that Erin I haven't really heard a lot of people bring to the conversation but you're a thousand% right it's interesting how an 11-year-old can be more rooted in lived experience and empathy for what it means to see people for who they truly are and then help their community see that as well that's just a beautiful story and you should be incredibly proud for being

[32:41]  a an amazing mom who helps your daughter and your son navigate through this ever changing landscape of life and I know you're doing an amazing job thank you thank you so let's talk a couple seconds about what the future's going to look like Okay, so you've been CEO now of Shore Community Services for over a year. Huge congratulations. What are the future years going to look like and what is the impact that Aaron's trying to have on the legacy of the organization?

[33:07]  Yeah. So, I think that uh we do have, you know, this this rich history in the community and we um there's a lot of change on the horizon. And so, first and foremost, I think it's my privilege to help us navigate that change and kind of figure out who is Shore, who who has Shore been, and who are we um now, and who do we want to be? Um there's there's a lot of different directions we could go. Um I think that we need to um prioritize, you know, what what are we really good at? Um we have a lot of peers in this space as well that are doing amazing work. And so because we have this um openness to collaboration in a new way um and individuals who are served have and their families have a

[33:54]  lot more choice in where they get services, right? It kind of forces us to be more collaborative and be more open to partnerships and and maybe we don't have to um be uh the one-stop shop solution for somebody for everything. You know, maybe we can hone in on what we're really good at, do more of that. Um scale it up, uh scale other things down, be real strategic about um where we are in this space and how we collaborate with others to serve uh the community. And so I think that's that's kind of where our conversations will go in the next uh couple of years is just really reviewing um the portfolio of severes that we provide. Um where the need is. Uh we know as well that um something like 72% of people with ID

[34:47]  are living at home with their families. Um and about 25% of those caregivers are over the age of 60. Um so there's a big cliff coming of people who will need services when their caregivers are unable to care for them any longer. And so are we building towards that? Um we also have what as you mentioned um a lot more children being diagnosed um a lot more awareness about neurodeiversity and um brain health, developmental brain health that helps us um intervene much earlier um and follow children as they grow. um for many many years and and so that is exciting too because there's another sort of wave of um folks who will need services. Uh the service

[35:37]  system I think of the the wave of people who are coming will look very different than the service system um of the folks who are aging in the current system. And so, uh, we get to be the architects of what that new system looks like, um, in partnership, of course, with the families and the people who are receiving the services. And so, it's an incredibly exciting time. Um, and Shore is is ready for that challenge. We have 75 years of experience. We have a wonderful reputation in our community.

[36:08]  Um, we have a lot of excellent partners in our community. And so it's just, you know, we're just going to have to um get out there and hit the pavement and start knocking on doors to say, you know, I know you know who we are and I know you know um what we do, but have you really um gotten to know Shore in its current state and where we're headed and thought about how you can come alongside us um to do this work? And so being much more proactive and sort of engaging with the community in a new way I think will be a big part of that. I get so excited, Erin, because I think about the unique gift that we have as leaders in organizations that have such legacy,

[36:55]  right? 74 75 plus years of time of you guys have being around, but now we have a leader who has a a mindset for being able to change the way that the organization presents itself to the community. talking about what services are we truly great at that we can lean into so we can actually create a distributive network and a supportive network of other organizations who can fill some of the gaps around us. That in itself is a demonstration of a mindset of abundance and not scarcity. Yes. How do you kind of lean into that mindset of abundance and not scarcity which is so prone in the landscape of nonprofits?

[37:32]  like we talked about a little earlier, it is it's we're it's very easy to fall into that trap as well. Um, but I think that's where having some experience in a in kind of a grassroots um organization where people are wearing multiple hats and sort of scrapping, you know, their way um learning the ropes, if you will, um and as they go. um relying a lot on on volunteer support and community connections and uh and things like that.

[38:03]  I think there's a lot of lessons to be learned there because some of the most, you know, powerful organizations are those kind of scrappy grassroots organizations and we have a lot to learn from them and they're investing deeply in relationships um which are free by the way um don't cost a thing and um and so I think that that kind of deep relationship work is what will bring the resources but also uncover resources that we already have that we're that we can distri distribute differently that we can use differently.

[38:36]  Um, and so I it's just kind of being expansive about thinking about what what the resource is and can be. Well, Erin, I'm incredibly excited for what the future's going to look like for you. We have a tradition here on the podcast where our previous guest wants to ask you a blind question. Oh, no. Okay. So, this is going to be an opportunity for us to be a little bit, I would say, reflective in our current state of who we are today. Okay. So the question is framed this way. Imagine that we jump into the future where you have an opportunity as your 85year-old self to meet the leader who sits in this chair today. If you had five minutes of advice that maybe the future version of you could hammer home that you need to lean into here today, but maybe you're a little resistant to,

[39:23]  what advice would your 85year-old self give you today as leader who you are sitting across from me in this podcast? Wow, that's a great question. Um, first of all, I hope my 85year-old self has been retired for a good long time and I hope that she has taken the opportunity to enjoy that retirement. Um, and so that I guess that's part of it, right? That's part of the advice is that um the work will not be finished.

[39:59]  um you are going to plant seeds now of a garden that you may not see. Um and be be comfortable with that. You know, my goal is is never to be the one to accomplish the thing. My goal is to build something that can get the thing accomplished with or without me. Right? And so I hope that my 85year-old self has uh you know is hammering home that that advice to uh not take some things so seriously um and to focus on the scaffolding that we're building um for the next leader and the next one

[40:48]  after that and the next one after that um so that I can retire. and enjoy my retirement. Well, Erin, it's easy to understand why you are on the podcast here today. You are the definition of heart and hustle and your mindset for how you're going to navigate the future, help your organization be adaptable towards meeting the needs of the ever growing challenges of the community is truly inspiring. So, for everybody tuning in, watching, and listening, can't thank you enough for being on the show. That's the podcast. Thanks so much. Really appreciated our our time together.

[41:18]  Thanks again.