Why Former Judge Shaun Floerke Left the Courtroom to Build Real Community Change

[0:00]  I invest in the people around me. Um, I hire good teams. I've had I tell people I've had so many good people move on and leave me. Two of my former employees are judges now. Like hire good people. Support them with all you can. Let them lead. Let them have voice and then watch them watch them move forward. Right? So to me it's those people and that that surrounding of a team of strong people.

[0:27]  And I'm not here to micromanage it. I suck at micromanaging, but I'm here to kind of figure out how do we do this together? How do you get stronger? How do we um that's what I think about is kind of that human legacy of good people. There's always going to be problems, right? We're never going to have no problems. What we need are thoughtful, connected, loving people who will be tending and building and planting trees of their own. Right.

[1:13]  Welcome back to another episode here on the Hard and Hustle podcast. Our next host went from being in the courtroom and setting people maybe away for some time. Now he's actually with them in the community. That's a shift that most leaders actually probably never make, but Sean did. Why? Let's get into it. Sean, most folks would have stayed on the bench and respected. What moment told you, nah, no, no, no. I'm meant to get closer to the people, not further.

[1:40]  Yeah, you're you're totally right. I when I announced I was retiring, people like, are you crazy? Like, no. But it was a story that I shared with you previously about I saw um a gentleman speak 20 years ago um named Don Koyas and he tells the story of three sisters who come to the water and in the water babies are drowning and the first sister jumps in and starts pulling kids out and is is making progress, right? Saving lives. Um, and the second sister thinks, "Oh, if I could teach kids to swim, they could help, too, right?" So, she jumps in and helps.

[2:18]  Okay, we're So, then you got helpers and it's still, but they're still overwhelmed and they look up at the third sister and say, "Get in. Get in. Get in." And she turned and ran away. Um, and and you know this story, she was running upstream to figure out who was putting babies in the water and how could we stop that. Um, and I that was how I viewed the courtroom, right? You know, you were always dealing with stuff coming at you and doing your level best.

[2:45]  And then we established uh drug courts and kind of national academy courts. So, we're teaching people how to how to do justice better for humans. But I always wanted to take a shot at making the whole place better for little boys and girls to come up in. Right. And then I found this. It's a community foundation and that's what we do, you know. So transition this was a little bit after co if I remember correctly. Did a year in CO as a judge and then switched over with Delta and Omnicron and all the different variants.

[3:23]  Yeah. So it was a big jump. Do do you think that was a shift as well or was your mindset already kind of in the space of I want to do something different. I really want to be in the community. we went. So, I loved being a judge and I was super connected with community and like I'd walk down the street and people are hugging me and you know it's just that's who I was, right?

[3:44]  Yeah. Co took everything of that away. I'm on Zoom all day long and I'm like I can't connect, right? So, it it accelerated it. It didn't make it happen, but it sure accelerated it. Um, I was sure ready to do something that was was more than zoom judge. You know, Sean, so being in the in the, you know, courtroom, I'm pretty sure you've seen addiction, you've seen some poverty, trauma up close. Yeah. What's something that you learned in the courtroom that most people work in the community actually probably would never even see?

[4:15]  Oh gosh, we could talk about that the whole time, man. I I think what what what we did best was um we helped people find their life back, right? Uh people would come in with all kind and we always think, "Oh, it's all about choices. you wanted to be the American kind of down on you thing. When when you actually look at the research and what happens in people lives, people's lives, a lot of it is the environment and the cards they're dealt and illness or homelessness or, you know, all the things. And if we could help wrap around and and bring supports and healing, people would would get their lives back. It was so cool. Um and and as a judge, you could you could kind of press people forward. You know, we

[5:04]  had probation, we had testing, we had people going to treatment, we had people getting their driver's license, we have people all the things we were kind of lining up for people. But there was this beautiful shift you would see with with a most folks where they weren't doing it anymore because the judge was telling them to. They started doing it because it was them, right? It's called adherence where your recovery your life your trajectory is your own not pressed on you from expectation from external um and that was always and you could see it I mean you could see people just no I'm going to do this judge because I want to do it not because you tell me I'm like that's it we're there you don't need me you know I love that I mean it seems like for you it was always the shift in

[5:51]  the mindset right understanding that sometimes people need to think see things a little differently think a little differently um have perspective a little differently which is always why you give these great stories right since the first time I met you you were kind of sharing them but I want to kind of talk about local investments that that really that you've made you know that made you say this is it this is what legacy should look like could you tell us a little bit more about those investments that you made locally yeah absolutely so we I come in here four and a half years ago and we're doing all this great grant and scholarship work right giving money out to nonprofits and students we take a couple of years to kind of try and make that stronger and better right? Um bigger grants, bigger scholarships. We're going to pay minimum 25% of your education including room and board.

[6:35]  Um kind of making that stronger and easier to get to. But you know, I mean, you've started a foundation, right? You you put all this money on Wall Street and then from Wall Street you take the take the earnings and that pays for the grants and scholarships, right? And I look at this, I get in here for a year or two. I'm like, we're doing awesome work, but what about that 95 bucks that's sitting in Jeff Bezos's pockets, right? And I'm like, I don't think any of them care about my place or my people. I really don't. It's all shareholder blah blah blah. So, what we're doing, um, and we're not the first, but but what we're trying to be part of kind of a a leadership cohort is we're taking money from Wall Street and we're investing it in Main Street. So,

[7:24]  we're taking this money and we still need a return. We're going to continue to do the grants and scholarships, but we're investing in our neighbors, our community, bricks and mortar, child care, wherever we can. And that's been such a cool idea. And as we talk about it, people are like, "Why ain't you been doing this that way all the time?" I'm like, "I don't know, but I'm here now."

[7:48]  You know, so what you said, right, people were saying, "Why didn't we do this sooner?" But be real, was there any push back when you actually started moving the legacy dollars in these bold new ways that people probably weren't really accustomed to? Oh, yeah. There are people who are just going to wave and smile at you and not do a thing, right? you know, and I'm trying to invite in other foundations and it's nice to have me kind of being the crash test dummy, but a lot of people like, well, let's watch how that works, you know? So, it Yeah, there's always, you know, it's changing hearts and minds, right? It takes time with people. You got to prove it. I'm going to prove it.

[8:24]  I'm going to test it. I'm going to show if it works or not. That's what we did with courts, right? Like, I'm going to measure what we're doing and if we're not helping people, we're not going to do it. If we're hurting people, we're stopping, right? So yeah, there's always, you know, change comes hard for people. Sean, what do you think is like the biggest lie that u people really believe when it comes to money, philanthropy, and community work? I mean, I couldn't imagine now being in the space for some time that that you're seeing all these things that people really just don't really know about, but they're making misconceptions.

[9:00]  I think that goes to scarcity, right, man? that we that we need to pull out our pitchforks and our hammers and fight one another for the scraps. Um whereas if we came together and we're interdependent and figuring it out together, we can do better and better and better. Right? Back in the day, people invested in community and community thrive. Now we're all on Wall Street and in things and you know, it's all just going away. Money is leaving our area and going out there. And I'm not totally against Wall Street. I'm not like an anarchist, but I'm like, we can do a lot here with what we got. So, I I think it's that we are better together. All thriving is mutual, right? If you're going to do well, I'm going to do well. It's not

[9:48]  that I got to take from you for me to do well. That's that's the thing I see over and over again. I'm really excited because also when we spoke I realized that we have something in common which is really nature and how nature plays such a big part and at some point we'll have to tell that story in in the back with the tree and the rock.

[10:08]  Yeah. I told my wife the story and how you know that's such a cool story man something that I would kind of always remember but I really want to talk about your your the way that you go into this is really um being in nature right you you you bow hunt you walk the shores of Lake Superior home. What does nature truly give you that leadership sometimes may take actually away? You mentioned about bike riding, right? You do it for a purpose. For a purpose outside. Yeah. I And yeah, we t we have a lot of commonality there. I you know, I think people say, well, I'm going to go out in nature. Um, as I've aged, I've reframed that to understand that I am nature, right? I'm part of and and the more I can like I'm waiting I'm I'm before you and I are coming on. I'm just looking out my window at the green

[10:55]  spaces, you know, and kind of stoking that in. Chief Seattle, have you bumped into his prayer to the four directions? I have it. He says that man didn't create the web of life. He's bought a strand in it. Everything man does to the web, he does to himself. And so, I think as we care for nature and in nature, and there's a million ways to do that, I think it feeds and nourishes us. And as we care for our places, it feeds and nourishes us and others. Um, it's become a huge piece of who I am. Huge piece. I have two goals when I retire, man. One, be outside and two, be helpful to people. That's it. I'm not going to be small, right? What's funny is that I just turned uh 35 about almost a month

[11:44]  ago. Can't believe time is flying this like this, but I uh my wife is like, "What do you want to do? It's 35." And I'm like, "Put me in the middle of nature, like in the middle of a jungle. I just want to feel at peace." And that's exactly what we did. You know, we went and we found this uh this this trail near us. And man, did I feel at peace, right? Something new, the water, the trees, the birds, the you know, if you could only see the other side. I just had some people walk up, Jehovah Witness actually walking up and not only they see the studio, but they're seeing all the plants and they're looking at me like, "Wow, look at all these plants."

[12:15]  And I'm like, "If they only knew." So awesome. This is going to be to really what you said last time. You you mentioned to me once that trees don't hurry, but they actually grow anyway, right? So I I talking about that I had this one tree. It was in a it was in a small pot. It was me. It was my fault for sure, but I didn't have big pots. So this thing is has grown long and it's just kind of stagnant. And finally, I got some big pots. I planted it and only man all the leaves on the bottom fell.

[12:43]  So it's only these new three, four leaves on top. And you know, they said you can chop it. You could do all these different things, but I was so happy yesterday, Sean, because as I was seeing the leaves in the bottom were starting to grow back. They were so small for so many. I didn't know they were going to grow back like that, right? But it talks to us. Trees don't hurry, but they grow anyway. When did you realize you needed that kind of face, man? Oh my gosh, 20 years ago. Have you read the Overtory?

[13:12]  Have you ever read that? I'll be very honest, I'd hate to read. as much as I I love to speak. How about audio? Watch it. Maybe audio. I haven't I have to listen to it. I have to listen to it. It's a great book about trees and kind of the environment, but there's a quote in there that says um when's the best day to plant a tree? 20 years ago.

[13:32]  When's the second best day to plant a tree? Today. I think about that a lot, right? I think about that a lot in terms of my life and how I'm I'm going to plant some trees now. I probably should have planted a few more 20 ago, but what can we plant now that you and I may not see? Maybe your daughter is seeing those trees in the future, right? Having a long view of the horizon. Yeah. Yeah. This kind of goes back to you're planting seeds that make 20, 30 years to grow. Um, how do you actually lead when you may never even see the fruit? You talk about, right, these planted these seeds, but how do you continue to lead even though you don't see it, right?

[14:15]  Um, I invest in the people around me. Um, I hire good teams. I've had I tell people I've had so many good people move on and leave me. Two of my former employees are judges now. Like, hire good people. Support them with all you can. Let them lead. Let them have voice. and then watch them watch them move forward. Right? So, to me, it's those people and that that surrounding of a team of strong people.

[14:43]  And I'm not here to micromanage it. I suck at micromanaging, but I'm here to kind of figure out how do we do this together? How do you get stronger? How do we um that's what I think about is kind of that human legacy of good people. There's always going to be problems, right? We're never going to have no problems. What we need are thoughtful, connected, loving people who will be tending and building and planting trees of their own. Right.

[15:12]  So I asked you before I tell you what I'm going to tell you. Mhm. What is so important to get to this space where you find peace in nature and where nature really also allows you to think differently as a leader in the space that you you you're in? What had to change first? What was that first thing that you really have to take care of to get to this place in your in in your life?

[15:35]  I had to stop taking myself so seriously. I had to start chopping down that ego. Right. Bruce Lee says, "Cut, cut, cut. Get to that which is essential." And I had to I had to learn that I I remember I was sitting up that hill. you can't see it. Uh, one day in May of 2020, thinking, "What is wrong with you? Why do you just go go go go go?"

[16:07]  I had to I had to That That's my answer. And also, and correct me if I'm wrong here, it's a it's a mindset shift. Yeah. Reframe. You have to. So, what I've done, Sean, recently um because I've had to find that in myself as well. And and that was from another leader that told me um he's seen me build brands since I was a very young you know 19 20 years old and he said uh now I'm 35. So he says Ephra man I've seen you build for so many years and and people teach best what they actually need the most. When do you actually start to realize your worth? You tell everybody to go know their worth. When do you realize yours?

[16:41]  And that was like a holy moment for me, right? Like that's awesome. You're right, you know. And um from that point on I really started one having a lot of these conversations with leaders right but as I'm speaking to leaders I also see Sean you can you can I can imagine attest to this is that not every leader has the mindset right there's still some people as you mentioned that takes themselves too seriously. So I say all that because you'll love this. I created a 30-day mindset reset journal and it's because I realized some of these CEOs they like to show up as CEO but forget who they actually are. Right? And a lot of times you didn't make that role. So you know what I'm saying? Like you are a human that got placed into this role and that's what you've been doing for 10 years. Yeah. But ideally look what you did, Sean. You kind of pivoted when your mindset shift and you seen things a

[17:28]  little differently. Like I could be in the in the courtroom and sending these people off for 10, 20, 30 years. Or I could be the beginning stages and saving them their lives 10, 20, 30 years. And what you'll really love about it is that I incorporated plants. I I had to make sure that when they read this journal that everything that I felt and and Sean at this point is feeling right that nature I want them to see plants. I want them to see uh I have like a coach's nugget in there but I called it rooted seed because it's a seed that we're planting and and and they're so much planting when they're telling themselves you know the the conversation they have with themselves the um the prompts that they have to read to themselves. It was really an experience. But I thought you enjoyed man that I put the mindset in there. I put in that reset and and nature more than anything because I realize how helpful it truly has been.

[18:16]  50 plants, man. This I realize, you know, maybe maybe after the fifth and sixth one that I should have stopped, but you know, I realize how it's helpful. I think you're I think you're spot on. I think how we frame things makes such a difference, right? Different word for mindset, but reframing. Um I hurt myself Saturday. I we were climbing through the woods. I fell in I actually got impaled by a tree on my shin went right through my waiters and all that. Holy crap. And I was like I was like dang me. And then I I reframed and I thought, you know, I've got my health. I was able to be out there. We are deep in the woods. We're, you know, and this will so I was able to kind of reframe even around an injury to think I'm grateful, right? I'm reminded that what it's like to be able to walk

[19:02]  on your left leg better. I have another story for you that I got to tell you. I use this doing keynotes. Um I found it somewhere long time ago. Do you you remember the biosphere experiment? You It was probably when you right they came in right way back there was one thing that wouldn't grow in the biosphere.

[19:28]  Do you know what it was? No, I don't remember. What is it? It was trees. And the reason the trees couldn't grow was there's no wind. And wow, because wind makes them strong, right? And to be to be resilient, you have to be strong and flexible, right? You know, and we you and you know, as a dad, you want to you want to protect your kid from all the wind, right? You are not touching my kid. But wind makes us grow, right? challenge is how we how we get that strength. And I I think about that a lot, right? How do you how do you work through life or or the people under your care? How do you let them have enough wind to grow stronger, not too much wind so they break, right?

[20:18]  Right. And that was Marlin's tree story was all about that balance of strength and and flexibility and nourishing. Yeah. It's so funny because I walk around my house, I have this ficus tree that I just start shaking because you're supposed to do that, right? It gives it just So when you say that, it just automatically I actually got to check this tree. People may think it looks crazy. I'm helping the tree grow. Okay.

[20:41]  Right. It can't grow. That's why you don't see huge trees inside your house, right? It'll always be a little plant because it can't get strong enough to be a big plant. That is so funny. How can leaders today, Sean, actually um slow down without really falling behind? Because that's what you mentioned, right? You had to kind of slow down and see things a little differently. And I and I we talked about the mindset reset was because people are going 100 miles per hour and just have to slow down and see things from a different perspective. So, what are your thoughts, man? How can leaders do this?

[21:15]  So, for me, it was adopting. I always say I'm kind of zen adjacent, right? I kind of pick practices. So, it was a meditative practice. You know, I shoot my bow and I shoot an old the bow is almost it's an old wooden bow. It's nothing fancy, but you got to do it slow. You got to listen to you. You got to listen to it. So, what I find is I try to build time intentionally build time in my days and weeks to just pause, right? And like I put hold spots on my calendar just to be open. Fridays, we've got a rule around here. No meetings, no outside meetings, right? That is a day where you can retool. You can kind of work on bigger stuff you couldn't get to, but don't be going out and doing meetings with just have a place built in. And I think you got to do that on

[22:02]  the regular, right? I love vacations, but they don't they don't build that renewal practice that you know this that you need on the regular, right? You can't, oh, I'm going to go to Jamaica and that'll make me a better dad. No, you got to be practicing that on the daily, right? Hey, real quick. If you're enjoying the podcast, we first want to say thank you. And we also just want to give you a little insight of what we're up to at Francis. Some don't even realize that we're working with organizations to help them use AI to create that real human communication experiences. Whether that's actually supporting your your families, those patients, or the entire community, we're actually creating tech that connects.

[22:46]  Check it out. Francis.ai. Unless vacations are never good because I have a wife that likes to like to the tea have an itinerary and that that that means you're waking your ass up super early and and me, you know, I'm thinking vacation. I get to sleep in or sitting by the beach. Watch that. No, that means we got to get to the beach even earlier.

[23:06]  I'm like, so yeah. Yeah, I definitely hear what you're saying, man. You got to take it that that time. I love that. We are we are early outs, but we usually have like one thingish each day we're going to do and that's all we schedule, right? And then then we'll flex and bend and do the other things. Probably get a nap. You're probably not old enough.

[23:26]  Especially now with kids, naps. I don't know what the hell a nap is. I would tell you years. Oh my my little one's still sleeping in the bed. It's horrible. I don't even know what it's sleeping your own bed feels like. But uh no, it it's it is true. I also have done that for me is Monday and Fridays. I make those usually my shorter days and I won't take another, you know, I won't do a podcast past three o'clock or I won't do a conversation with my client even past three because a lot of times it allows us to kind of one maybe we fell back on some admin work, right? The worst thing ever. So, we got to kind of get back into those spaces or uh maybe you forgot to respond to some emails or or personal life, man. I think sometimes we get so deep into um doing for others, right?

[24:06]  making sure we were filling everybody's cup. But at some point, you start to realize for the first time, I tell you, Sean, this past um Monday, I wasn't feeling well. I had this itch in my in my throat and I realized my family I was like the last person to get it cuz the family already had it. Yeah. And I really wasn't feeling well and I was supposed to stream that night and I said, "You know what? I'm just not I'm not streaming." Like it you have to make that decision. And even though I I always talk about consistency and showing up at some point had to realize like I know people were expecting me to show up. Yeah. But what happens when I'm down and out? Who the hell is there for me to pick me back up? Who's pouring into me? So I told my wife, I said, "Hey, I just let you know I'm not working out today and I'm I'm not going live." And she's like, "Really?" I said, "I have to I'm 35 now." Okay. It's not the same. I don't rebound as good, John.

[24:50]  I don't rebound as good. I'm 60, man. Tell me about it. But I love that, right? Because our culture says, "Don't rest. You got to produce. You got to do. And you need to be able to push back on that and say, "I need to rest." Right? And that man, I wish I'd have been thinking that way when I was 35. I I tell you why I had to think this way.

[25:14]  There was times younger age where I was working for corporate and I was a person that never called out and I would go to work sometimes with no voice, damn near dying, right? And show up and realize that they didn't care. No. Right. Even though I showed up and I made them so much, they didn't care. So, I'm in a space, man, and I was telling this to a friend. You have to start worrying about yourself a lot. You know, it is okay.

[25:36]  People I think when people say you're so selfish, they they see it as a a wrong thing. But to me, it's like, no, you you have to be selfish a little bit. You know what I mean? Because if not, who the hell is going to take care of you? I mean, luckily, I got a, you know, amazing wife, but we we have to be able to do that for ourselves as as well. So I I love that we're kind of get into the space of how can leaders think a little differently and take moments for themselves, especially when you're so into the community at that level when we're helping, you know, those that have trauma and we're taking in these stories. That was another big thing is yeah, you carry them. How do how are you kind of getting rid of it so you're not taking it home? You mentioned a bike ride. For me, I'm just watering my plants or maybe I'm going to the gym, right? But we got to find that thing.

[26:20]  Yeah. I tell my people all the time, work is never going to love you back. I love you. We have a we have a super close connected team, but I'm like, work will never love you back. It never will. And I think we're under this illusion that if we give enough, it'll love No, it's work. You know, it's meaningful.

[26:41]  It's good, but it shouldn't take up all of your psychic energy, right? That was what we talked before record. I mean, that's why I started riding the bike. I I needed some space to become to by the time I got back home to be dad and not judge, right? I needed some space. I It was consuming all of me. It had become my identity, you know? I love it. Yeah.

[27:06]  Sean, I I I will we're going to get back into just some of these conversations, but I know that a lot of leaders are thinking and want to know what other people's thoughts are when it comes to AI, the AI world. And I don't even Right. And this is how I look at it now that I speak to people, right? That spectrum looks there. There's a middle, there's a beginning and an end. And really the beginning is that you're completely fear. You're in fear. You don't want to use chat GBT even. You think that AI is taking over the world, but AI is already on your phone and has been for a very long time for those that are listening. Then you have that middle that are very curious and they're kind of dipping their toe and and trying to figure out how that actually, you know, works in me, could work for them. But then you have people that are really kind of ahead of the needle, right? and realizing that I'm not replacing a body, but I'm really making these bodies work a little bit uh easier, right, per se, a little faster, because now in a in a drop of a, you know, dime that we can

[27:53]  actually be able to do what took us months. What are your thoughts when you come to AI? Where where do you fall within that spectrum? I'm I'm totally with you. I I have this sneaking suspicion that AI is going to end the world, right? They're going to look around and say, "Humans are the problem. we're gonna be done with, you know, but but I've dipped my toes in and I'm using chat GPT and it's fabulous in terms of being able to like yesterday I got a a letter from the county attorney's office about a thing. And I don't think they're right. I think their legal analysis is wrong. It kind of happens when you've been a judge. And so I throw all the documents into chat GPT and I say I want an independent analysis of what what what's happening here.

[28:39]  Andoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoom I go back and forth. I write a I write a letter. I write a memo to the board drafty stuff. You know I'll rewrite it all. But it's a powerful tool. I I'm just I'm in awe. I'm just in awe. But I'm really of two minds on it. Right. I mean I don't do Facebook. I don't do I'm I'm really trying to protect that space.

[29:00]  Right. So I'm I'm totally at two minds. I think it's foolish to to close our eyes and huddle from it, you know. Yeah. I So, Chad TPT, I wish I would actually jumped on it earlier. I had a friend that told me about this maybe two, three years ago, and just like everybody, it was it was a new thing. It was, you know, it's like whatever, right? It wasn't making as much noise as it is today. So, I would say within the last year and a half, man, I use it every single day. And I use give you two examples to what you mentioned. I am no lawyer and I'm not an accountant, but I got myself out of two situations. One with a lawyer. Uh well, not so much with a lawyer, but just like you, right? I don't have the background, but I know when when stupid is stupid, right? And they make no sense. And right, I was I was in a contract with someone and they

[29:47]  were supposed to give me back $500 at this point, but they were mentioning like no. And they would, you know, they would go back to the contract, but I read the contract 10 15 times. One before I signed it and one when I realized that they were trying to play me, right? all these screenshots and chat DBT.

[30:01]  Prompting is what it needs, right? So, I'm prompting and I'm having these conversations. Yeah, man. I went back and forth only two times and even Chad GPT almost kind of got aggressive a little bit where I say, "Hey, man, tone it down a little bit." Aggressive, you know, I'm not even tone it up. Tone it up. Boom.

[30:19]  I love it, man. So, I uh I ended up getting $500 back, right? Yeah. Then my accountant I uh we we had lost the 501c3 status for the organization. So I was trying to get the 501c3 reinstated. I they they quoted me $5,000 to actually start. I'm like okay cool. It's it seemed like a lot of money but whatever.

[30:38]  I'm going to pay 5,000. Right. Yeah. So then by the end of it now it's almost $8,000 and I'm like wait a minute. Right. So I'm going through everything they're sending me and I'm already seeing the discrepancy in some of the wording and some of the titles is here. So I'm going back and forth. I got it to to $5,000. They even try to say, "Hey, how about we do $3,000 in marketing and then $5,000, you know, right?" And I'm like, I mean, my math still mapping. It still equals $8,000, right? Like, I'm not doing it. Um, so Chad TPTt, man, got me out of it, you know, in those situations where I would feed it like, "Hey, look at this. Look at this. Like, is this a thing? If if if we had to take this to the next level, where do I do I, you know, do I have a case here?" And yeah, man. And chat GPT really does help people if though you know how to use it.

[31:26]  You know, and I could look at the analysis and I'm like, "Yep, yep, yep, yep." You know, so that um we we're looking in I'm I'm exploring getting a AI training for our whole crew to think about, you know, I think people kind of use it oneoffish. That's kind of how I'm doing it. You know, I got this thing.

[31:45]  I'd like to use it and and analyze how could we work better and smarter and less, you know, how could we build use AI to build some of that space in for everybody so we're we're doing a better job and we're taking better care of our our team. Um don't know if that's there, but it seems like that's a viable path, right? I actually got another question.

[32:07]  When you talk about AI, Sean, the the framework that I sent you or the for my assistant that sent you. Yeah, it was great, right? Oh, it's it's fantastic. It was the AI noteaker, right? That we had the transcript. Incredible. Yeah. And we told her to create the framework based off the conversation, but we also plugged in a framework like this is what it should look like, you know, XYZ. So, yeah, it takes work, but now it becomes easier. I don't have to do that all the time. I can just plug and play. Plug and play. Right. We're using So, we run gosh, I couldn't even count the number of committee meetings we have a year deciding on grants, scholarship, etc.

[32:39]  We've always had one person who's taken notes and a big amount of work. Now, we use an AI tool with our Zoom. Yeah. You know, when it comes out, it's 80 90% solid and and that's saving 80 90% of that person's time that that she used to devote to that. So, yeah, but it takes time because I had to tell my secretary that I said, "Hey, when we doing these Zooms, like we could either be using Phantom AI, like aai or whatever." And at first she was like, "Oh, well, I don't know." And then we used it and she realized, "Oh, I don't really have to take notes unless we're really in person." and and then we can turn on the computer. But yeah, man, it's very helpful. I would say how big is your organization? You talk about training and I think that is a big part is that you're in an organization sometimes where people are scared and people don't have insight on what it is. But if we

[33:25]  could just educate them, education is everything that they can actually see things a little differently, right? Shift that mindset. So, how big is this organization um that you guys are working with? Yep. So, there's 12 of us on our team. So, and most of us are here. We've got a couple who are remote, but um we have really good interaction.

[33:42]  We do quarterly kind of mini retreats. We do every year we'll do a maybe day, day and a half retreat. Lots of good kind of connectivity. Um we also do um we use a there's a thing called Clifton Strengths, which is a gallop pole. It's like tells you your strengths and we have a coach and we all do that and that's been a neat tool because it allows you to lean into kind of your strengths and and then be able to understand oh that's you know Paige is running from she's that's her responsibility showing up okay I gotta I gotta meet that you know it's been a good tool not just about the tasks but about how we work together and how we show up. Love that. Yeah love that. I I I want to get into the story, man, before we start to, you know, get rapping here because I know we could do

[34:29]  this all day. I know we could. I want I want people to know about this this rock story. Oh, yeah. You you sent us a man and years later he returned with a car rocked. Yeah. What did that moment actually mean to you? Tell us a little bit of that story, but also what did that really mean to you?

[34:45]  Yeah. So, he was um he was in our in our DWI court. So, it's a treatment court. It's a wraparound court. I got guys for five years. were incredible success, right? And one day, and he was a tough guy. He was a he was a meth guy. His teeth were gone. He he was a tough tough man. Then he walked in one day and he had a poem about a tree and talking about nourishment and connection and strength and all that. Like, that's awesome. And then he graduated and left and went on to live his life, right? And he came walking in one Friday with with this big tree. He had carved it. You want to see it? I got to show. Bring it up. Bring it up. Yeah, bring it up.

[35:30]  So, like it's a piece of stone from Lake Superior, right? And it that's that's wire. That's angle iron wire. Um and he he comes walking into the corner. This thing weighs 20 pounds, man. And he's like, "Remember that poem?" I'm like, "Of course I do, Marv. What are you talking about?" He said, "Well, I just made that. That's that poem." And I'm like, and it was so beautiful, right?

[35:53]  Cuz it was so outside of his comfort zone to write a poem. And then to come to find out that he's making stone and iron art and Yeah. You see people getting their life back, right? It's just I mean, what that that that's a gift um to be even just a a small part or even just a witness to that and watch people. I I haven't showed you this one. my my Paige, my finance director, her mom does the same stuff. Oh man, that is cool. Yeah. And that's that's me. That's the tree that's getting blown by the wind. But you're hanging on to the rock anyway cuz you're just too stuck. So good. Listen, I I might have a a new problem. I'm going to go find these rocks of trees on this one's copper, man. This is I see

[36:42]  so good. Yeah. I wouldn't even begin to start trying to figure out how to make You have a collection now. People see the one and now you got two. Next thing you know, it's like 50 of them. Like I got 50 plants. You have 50 of these, right? I don't have to water these. True. They look still look good. I love it. Like we I used to try and have fish.

[37:00]  I can't keep them alive. I'm just terrible. I can't fishes. That's they they take some loving as well, man. Some time and care. You you you you you're in a space, man, where you talk about legacy and not so much in numbers, but but in names and in faces and stories. And I love stories, Sean, which is why we do what we do because I believe those stories are so impactful, not just for us to kind of listen to them and see how people's are living and it makes us think a little differently, but also that we can share our stories with someone else and inspire them that way, right? Like this is what we do this.

[37:32]  We're sharing a story on who you used to be and who you are now and why you're here. They may be another lawyer that is actually in a space like man or or judge that says am I in the right place I'm not happy anymore you know like what the passion I used to have I no longer have it and I love that a leader like you have taken you know that you jump shipped because we need leaders like yourself but when you when you talk about it why is that more powerful than a plaque or a donation total I that's a really good question I my sense is that you know no matter kind your faith perspective and your history perspective. It's very clear that we've been sitting around fires together for a long time and telling story and that it was the oral storytellers. And I think story allows it to get into your heart,

[38:22]  right? It's not just your head and you're not just listening to facts, but there's a way that it that it touches your heart. And when we're when we're both heart and head, I think then we can lean forward and engage, right? Um, yeah, the power of story and picture and art is so profound. Um, and I and I I know, you know, you and I connect really well. And I I know that you know and I know that telling our failures is important, too, right? I we we came up in a culture of manhood that said you're going to be tough. You're going to work hard. You're going to use anger to to as your fuel. And I think a lot of that's got to just drop and you got to tell the story of your vulnerability and your

[39:10]  screw-ups. And that's how you invite people in, right? Yeah. Yeah. 100%. I do agree, man. I I love to share those stories. I'm I'm a weird one. I'm You know, it's funny when people say, "You're weird." I'm like, "I love it. I love it. I'm weird." But uh Jehovah Witness just pulled up to I told you they pulled up to my garage earlier and as I sat here started talking to her she mentioned about um she said can I share a scripture and the first thing she mentioned was fear right and because everyone in the world is living in in fear. Oh yeah. Because what's happening Yeah. with uh you know just within the world within our country per se. And I she then goes into a scripture mentioning how um evil and if we clear all evil, we all live at peace.

[39:53]  And and I had to then go into the story of being sexually abused adopted. Understanding that I I seen what evil looks like, right? But I am at peace with with those parts of my life. And also knowing that I'm making a difference, that I'm that we're breaking cycles and we're not doing the same thing. I didn't have to tell that story, but I wanted her to know like I understand that my story of of evil. As you mentioned earlier, you could take it there's people that I have family members that are still living in those moments and haven't been able to surpass those moments. Yeah. Because they feel somebody else in something. For me, I take th those moments in my life, those failures, man. And I I learned this very maybe 20ome years old. I had a mentor and I was ready to close my cafe. I'm 22 years old. I wanted an angel investor. I didn't want to quit. Sean, you know, you're 20 something years old. Your

[40:39]  friends are looking at you. So you think, so you think they're not even coming to support. So uh you know, all these different things, man. And and he says, "Why are you doing it?" I said, "I don't want to look like I failed, man." He said, he laughs. He said, "Ephra, this is not a failure. There's people twice your age that are asking themselves, "What if?" This is a lesson.

[40:59]  You take this lesson, Ephra, and you move forward and know that you'll never make that same mistake again. And if you make it, then you're the idiot, right? But I loved it because it it was so true that sometimes we we dwell on what failure may look like, right? But I always ask, what did you take from that?

[41:14]  When you leave a job, what did you take from that job? When you leave a relationship, what did you learn about yourself? Because it could be so easy to say, "Oh my god, I'm heartbroken." Okay? Yeah, you are heartbroken, but think about what did you learn from this moment? What do you take away that's going to better you in life to what you said Sean 100% I do feel that and it starts with social media man. Social media gives you the gluts and the the glitz and the glamour and all the good stuff. All those people that are successful, you're all you seeing is success, but they're not sharing the times they had to cry, the times they had to sleep on the floor, the times that they almost gave up or damn probably gave up and got back up. Yeah.

[41:51]  Right. Those stories are not shared enough. Which is why I love that me and Keenan were able to talk about this, man. And I'm one to always I don't care who it is. I don't mind sharing my story because I realize that when I share my story, how someone else would be more than willing to share their theirs and be like, "Oh my god, I didn't know that there was someone else like me." Right.

[42:08]  Right. You open a door, you know, and I think so there's a term and you've heard of vicarious trauma, right? The idea that we are impacted. There's also the term vicarious resilience, right? I think we can be encouraged by seeing somebody else's resilience. We had a we had a client named Bonnie um she was in her mid50s and just hellacious background, right? All just, you know, all the But one of the things Bonnie did was she was uh she would do end of life work within her tribal community and she would sit with folks and and help them move into the next the next world. Um and and people sometimes would say, "Oh, it's great that she can do that despite

[42:57]  what happened to her." And I'm like, "Nope. Bonnie has taken what happened to her and turned it into ministry and spirit and love. Bonnie is Bonnie with all the bad things on board. And what you're seeing is her taking what her refraraming what's happened to her and and moving it forward in love, right? It, you know, and all the bad things that have happened to us. It makes us who we are right this damn minute, you know, and then it's a question of am I going to be a victim to that or am I going to lean forward with that um and present, you know, do better.

[43:39]  Sean, man, this is I'm over here looking at the time and I'm like, we could definitely do another whole hour. This how good it is. Let's start wrapping this up. I'm gonna ask you this last question, then we'll get into that blind question. So, have your your blind question. But fi finish this sentence. Real change starts when dot dot dot.

[43:59]  Oh man, when the student is ready. And there's a Buddhist saying, the teacher arises when the student is ready. And I think that's right. Real change starts when you're ready, right? Love it. It's true. 100%. Yeah. And and you don't know you're ready and then all of a sudden you look back and like, "Oh, I was ready and that happened." Right. Um it's all about receptivity and and Yeah. You know what? Also, I think this is so good. I just realized that we're both standing up. Yeah. Like that's how you know the energy is very different in the room.

[44:31]  We're both standing. We're moving. I love it. I literally have I literally I won't show you. I literally have a hole in my ankle from where I got stabbed on Saturday by a tree in the woods. I know. That's That's why I was surprised you stood up this whole time, man. After you told me that story. Golly, trooper.

[44:52]  Idiot. That's exact. Hey, you know, I have to start talking to myself like that sometime when I do dumb things. Like, you're a dummy. Like, funny. It is the funny dumb, man. Um, I'll tell you one really funny dumb story really quick. So, um, don't I'm blind, okay? So, I should not be driving in the dark. I mean, I do, but I'm blind. I shouldn't.

[45:16]  So, what happens is sometimes when when I'm the type of person, man, when I'm listening to something or I'm on the phone call, like, I'm just driving. So, I'm driving one day from work. It was in the middle of a hurricane where I thought I was heading home and home was about an hour away, but then I started to see I'm in Orlando and then I started to see the Hard Rock Hotel and Hard Rock Hotel was in Tampa. That's a whole city away. So I'm like, how is my wife really going to believe me? Right. My phone died, Sean.

[45:45]  Four hours late. Whoa. Yes. My phone died. My wife is one of those that she anxiety started to kick in. It's 12:00 at night. She's like, "Where the hell is my husband?" She knew that I also had a drink. So, you know, she's calling my cooworkers like, "Where the hell is he?" All these different things. So, you know, then I got lost the other day and went to Disney and she's like, "I don't know what the hell is wrong with you, but use your GPS." And I'm like, "Sometimes, man. I'm just I'm just living life, John. I just love life so much. I'm just going with the flow."

[46:11]  Sometimes you had me it was the middle of a hurricane. I'm like, "What the hell? We don't do that up here. We don't have hurricanes." My my friend was laughing. She said Ephra tried to go find the hurricane himself. Huh? I guess I guess but we'll get to the live question, man. We got we got to wrap this up. So, let me tell you one more quote about the fear circling back to the people. I Oprah says, and I love this. Um, she says, um, feel the feels but take the wheel. Fear can ride in the car because fear is something that but don't let it drive. Right? And I and that's a framing for me that really because I'm afraid right of this time and and future and what do we I want to show up in the

[46:59]  right way so that my grandkids think I did I did well right so fear is fear is present but I'm going to drive I'm not going to let fear drive the Yeah. I just that's so good. I'm clipping that by the way. We're definitely going to clip that moment. That's People need to hear that. People need to definitely hear that one. Um so let's get to the blind question. man.

[47:20]  And I I spruceed it up a little bit based off what they said, but let's say that uh well, we know you spent your whole life really helping people really rewrite their stories from at all levels, from what you used to do to really what you're doing now. But if your life was actually a Netflix series, what should season 2 be called and why?

[47:38]  Oh jeez, man. You couldn't have said that to me. Got to put you in the hot seat, man. Got to put you in the hot seat for sure. Okay. Okay. Let me here. Season two should be called um you don't matter that much. Let it go. And and I'll don't don't it was hard for me to stop being a judge. I'd built beautiful things. Um I was caring for a bunch of people. It's a very important kind of job. People stand up when you walk in. Everybody calls you judge. It was really And you see judges who refuse to leave because it's I'm indispensable, right? And I left and I look back and they're still doing that

[48:26]  stuff. There's good people doing that work. It wasn't all about Sean. I don't matter that much. And and letting go helps me to do better work and helps me to be more generous with my people and partners and family and friends. Right? So that there there's a book that talks about cosmic insignificance therapy. Look up at the stars and understand that I'm not that big a deal. The earth does not revolve around me.

[48:58]  I'm still having a good time. I'm having a good time. It's a good time. Uh what is your blind question to the next leader we have here on the heart and hustle podcast? You know, and you asked me this question. It's what is one thing you would let go and one thing you would take up in order to be more present in your life. So I want to let go one thing and take up one thing. Okay. I love it.

[49:22]  Well, you really put someone in the hot seat the next episode. They got to tell me the same. Sean, where can people find more about you, the organization? Um what's your Instagram if you have one? Facebook website, all that good stuff. I'm on LinkedIn, so they can find me on LinkedIn. That's where I tend to put some stuff. Our website is dsa communityfoundation.com, although we're changing to boreal waters community foundation after the 21st. Don't let it out until after the 21st. BL, that's the northern forests and waters. That's the northern environment. So, it'll be bor boreal waters community foundation. I love it. I love it. And was this a you thought process and and how to bring it to the board? all of us and yeah the board and we're looking

[50:10]  like what kind of what what's our place what how do we define who we are and where we live and we're in the boreal northern forest so yeah but don't 21st there's a big part and I do want to I won't tell them Sean before then but I did want to tell them that every picture behind Sean is a legit picture taken by you right Sean right right this is like come on this One is the view out our bedroom window onto Lake Superior. This one is a friend's place just down the road on Lake Superior. And this is where I bow hunt. Right up the I'm in the middle of the city, dude. Right up above my bow hunt. I love it. Well, guys, if you guys haven't already, man, make sure that you guys go ahead and connect with Sean. I mean, the the the wisdom, the insight, I mean, is definitely you guys

[50:58]  can see it through this whole episode. Um, make sure you guys also follow the organization and the growth, the revamp that is actually happening. He just mentioned the new website. Make sure you guys check him out there. Um, it's been a pleasure. I always enjoy speaking to leaders that are in this space. Pleasure. Thank you so much, Sean. Make sure you guys do comment, share, like, all the good stuff because that's how we get the stories out there. We talk about stories. We got to get the stories. All you got to do is share. It doesn't cost you anything. My name is E friend here on the Hard Hustle Podcast. This has been Sean. We'll catch you guys in the next one. Lers. Peace.