Why Rescuing Families, Not Just Children, is the Key to Reforming Foster Care

[0:00]  but what I know now is that that child being removed from that family and brought into our system even when they're placed with nice people and I'm a relatively nice human being um is is hugely traumatic for the child and what we've learned from young people who've grown up and had the experience of being foster care is that um they would have loved for us to rescue their family rather than trying to rescue them from their family and so what we know now is if we can wrap services and supports around families to create safety within the family that is the best thing to do and ideally can we solve the problems that are occurring with that child's parents first and keep them safely at home and if not can we keep them connected by getting them with a relative or a member of their community

[0:48]  that is is kin to them so that they don't experience the kinds of loss and grief that happen when they come into foster care all right guys welcome back to a brand new episode of the heart and hustle podcast now I'm incredibly excited to be able to share the heart and hustle of this amazing leader and CEO who sits across this digital table with me today we're going to be learning about Lori Ross the CEO of foster adopt connect now we're going to hear about her personal experience as a young 20-some that led her down this path we're going to talk about the changing landscape of child

[1:35]  welfare and so much more Lori welcome to the show thank you so much for having me I'm excited to be here so Lori I think it's really important for us to kind of get off on a a tone if you will for heart and hustle how's your heart doing today uh it's big and full and excited about good things that can happen that's an amazing way to be an optimist right about what's happening we're recording this in mid December 2024 2025 is right around the corner what are you most excited about as we kind of get into the next year here uh well I'm not done with this year yet so right now I'm excited about the work that we're doing Serving thousands of kids in Missouri and Kansas for Christmas so we have uh our give joy program going on right now and um and we're getting ready to hand out a whole

[2:22]  lot of holiday smiles to a whole lot of kids and that always just makes me excited and happy at the end of the year how long have you guys been going doing the give joy program how long has this been something going on uh well we've been around about 25 years and I think we've been probably doing it maybe uh 18 or 19 of those years um and as we grow in different locations in our two states the number of kids we serve grows right along with it wow I mean doesn't it feel good to be able to be somebody in the community who's giving back to so many people and making so many fundamental memories for their life yeah it really is cool um and it what's I think even even cooler is that it is a real direct way that people in the community can do something that really impacts the life of a child May everybody thinks they would like to make a difference for kids

[3:10]  whove suffered abuse and neglect and this is a way to I mean actually directly give them something that they are excited about getting for the holidays and uh and I love being able to connect the community to those opportunities so what was the story that kind of brought us to be the individual who sits across this table from me here today how does one support thousands of children helps so many individuals how do we kind of get down this path well I um am a person who had a fantastic mom my mom uh did everything in the world for me and my sister um Ben over backwards uh uh raised us for a large part of our life on her own and um and never ever ceased to make me know that I was loved and treasured and um I had a friend in high school who had an

[3:58]  experience uh with her mom and it involves some abuse and I remember at the time thinking that was it just shocked me it was just shocking and I remember at the time thinking I I want to do something uh that makes a difference for kids like my friend and uh so that eventually led to hearing an ad on a radio one day that um that the state of Kansas was looking for people to be foster parents and I was 20 and newly made married and um had you know uh no reason in the world to think I would qualify lived in an apartment so I thought what could it hurt to pick up the phone and call and so I made that phone call and they said oh yeah you actually you would qualify why don't we

[4:45]  bring you into an orientation and teach you all about it and uh so I had a long conversation with my husband at dinner that night and he was like you know kind of was like okay whatever you know whatever you think well and and before he knew it we had a six-year-old uh living with us so just happened that fast wow I mean like what is that process like of being a young 20-year-old 21-year-old right applying to be a foster parent and then having a six-year-old child be given to you guys for protection and to be raised like what was that experience like being so young especially too so I was so young that I did not realize how far in over my head I was I mean I had all of the bombas of Youth

[5:34]  I did not realize that I did not know anything and um and I didn't realize that I couldn't do anything so um it really was wow this is cool I get to do something that's really life-changing and get involved and then when she moved in she was our biggest teacher like from day one we were learning she had uh we were her sixth placement she had been in multiple placements she had had a very tragic history of abuse and um and a lot of accompanying uh behaviors and challenges that came with that but one of her issues was a speech delay and um and so for example the word milk instead of saying I want milk she would say moo and so I we had a we had a baby of our

[6:22]  own who wasn't quite a year old learning to talk and so I just did the same thing with her that I did with our baby and would say milk you know say it slowly with me and within like 2 months 3 months she had eliminated Her speech problems just by doing that so I really I thought like I had discovered the cure for cancer or invented slic bread I was like dude I got this I'm good and I still had no idea how much I didn't have it um but we plugged away like that month after month year after year and eventually she taught us pretty much everything we needed to know um and not only for her but for all of the kids that came after wow so ignorance truly was Bliss in the very beginning of

[7:09]  recognizing it was yeah looking back now I would never in a million years have licensed myself there's no way but I mean if we think about the results of somebody believing in you and Licensing you as a young 20-some the impact that you've been able to have on so many lives so obviously they saw something in you that was super important they must have or I don't know I have no idea I just I just think about it now and I think what was I thinking you know I have children that are that age and older and oh my God you know there's no way somebody that age is ready to take this on but I guess you know I guess I'm you know you're the living proof I'm living proof that some some of us can so we have our personal experience right in adopting a child but then we also later than later create uh foster adopt

[7:56]  connect so what is the inspiration behind that well after we had been fostering for a number of years I think we had been fostering like over a decade um we started to recognize that there were issues within the system that were difficult um difficult to find resources for kids difficult issues to overcome a lot of things we didn't know uh the answers to that now that you have to recognize this was back in the days before the internet imagined that so uh you couldn't just say hey Siri find me the answer to this or Google everything you had to actually um you know find the right person to call get them to answer the phone and it it was it was hard to navigate systems and um so um I was

[8:46]  looking for something in a way with other people to create some level of support for families and I got involved with the support group which led to some brainstorming and a group of us got together and came up with this One-Stop shop idea where people who were trying to do the work we were trying to do could find a whole bunch of answers just by coming to one place and that eventually led to us writing our 501c3 at my kitchen table and sending it off with $500 that we rounded up from family and friends and amazingly enough the government gave us that 501c3 and we started uh you know finding a place to provide services from and growing an organization I mean this is one the beautiful things I love about the

[9:32]  founder story is when we have a personal experience we have almost like an aha moment where we recognize there's a gigantic Gap in the marketplace of services or support that we can actually provide for people so what were some of those early conversations like when you said I think we're really going to start a 501c3 here and start tackling this problem that we've all been experiencing um just things as basic as um not being able to access uh support from each other uh back in those days you may have uh you know four foster parents who are in your Elementary School attendance area and you don't know any of those other people there's no way for you to interact with them there um there is no way to be able to find anybody who who can offer you back the same kind of support that you can offer to them so

[10:18]  that was one thing connecting people to each other access to resources that could benefit everybody was another thing um education and then as we got to know people and got in the door um and they joined us for a training or something like that we discovered that there was a significant issue around um the need to uh know what the rules were that we were playing by like how does this system actually work and what are the policies and procedures um because you know somebody would quote something to you and you'd be like where is that written down I don't see it anywhere nothing was online there was no online wow so um you know one of the first things we did was order all of the three- ring binders full of policies

[11:07]  that govern child welfare and I got eight 3inch three- ring binders that were mailed in a huge box pulled those out and started reading through them and then they sent updated policies by mail every month as the policies were updated so when people were asking us questions we could answer their questions and we knew what are the rules that people have to play by um and that's just one system foster care involves lots of systems you have court systems and Educational Systems and Health Care Systems and mental health system so it was a whole lot of recognizing how much we didn't know and trying to figure out what to do I still feel like people don't know the real reason why so many children find themselves in foster care in the first place in our previous conversation you said you know normally there's a narrative in society that says like both

[11:54]  of someone's parents passed away in a car crash is that how individual children are coming into the foster care system almost never that's almost never the case um in those circumstances there's almost always family members that step up for those kids there's a backup plan that the parents have put into place or they have relatives or family members H what happens is that kids come into foster care largely because of abuse or neglect and neglect is a big category so we see a whole lot of people coming into foster care even even back then but as a result of uh mental health issues that they uh se you know people have self-medicated by using substances so substance abuse mental health issues domestic violence issues um those kinds of things are things that lead to conditions in which kids are

[12:42]  either abused or neglected um and then you have the the smaller number of people that are seriously physically uh abused or seriously sexually abused and of course those are just tragic situations but that's why kids come into care it's it's not usually that there's aort orphan that needs care that's not it well my question for you is is the best answer always removing the child from the household no I used to think that that's something that I used to think I I in a lot of people used to think that saving the child from the bad situation is the way you make a difference and that truly is how I felt 25 years ago but what I know now is that that child being removed from that family and brought into our system even

[13:29]  when they're placed with nice people and I'm a relatively nice human being um is is hugely traumatic for the child and what we've learned from young people who've grown up and had the experience of being foster care is that um they would have loved for us to rescue their family rather than trying to rescue them from their family and so what we know now is if we can wrap services and supports around families to create safety within the family that is the best thing to do and ideally can we solve the problems that are occurring with that child's parents first and keep them safely at home and if not can we keep them connected by getting them with a relative or a member of their community that is is kin to them so that they don't experience the kinds of loss

[14:16]  and grief that happen when they come into foster care I mean there's a a buzzword that's been thrown around since I've been in the space of healthcare since 2014 which is called whole person care right it's not just addressing your physical needs your emotional needs your mental health needs but all of the socioeconomic needs as well and unless you can address all of that as a complete picture of an individual or a family right it seems like we're treating the symptom rather than the cause of the actual issue if that makes sense and that is totally the case if you get in there and you just snatch a child from a bad situation you may have saved that child in that moment but you've created a host of other problems moving forward what we need to do as a as a society is we need to look at all of those issues that are bringing kids into care and we need to do something uh about those

[15:05]  issues um you're right poverty uh homelessness Transportation issues substance use issues those are the things that uh are the place in the river where the babies get thrown in rather than pulling them out if we can stop them from getting thrown into the river then we're really making a difference you shared some statistics in our last conversation about you know substance abuse being a factor in about 9 90% of child welfare cases now we've seen opioids fenyl drug use coping skills that have been kind of around all of these types of elements and narcotics over the last couple years have been incredibly stressful why do you think it's those specifically that have such a huge chunk of the cases that individuals end up being a part of child welfare because of um I think because um what we

[15:55]  see is that people try to medicate away um there other issues problems and concerns so if you're living in a in a trauma filed Community where there's stress and violence and things going on around you all the time uh self-medicating around um that is something that we see very commonly uh we definitely see self-medication of any kind of mental health issues or challenges um and and truly that is I think uh it is a huge part of every almost every case that we see um it it's a rare situation if there's not a substance abuse issue involved in addition to whatever the other issues are man that's got to be incredibly

[16:43]  challenging even from the way in which you engage with an individual child right who comes from a majority of these environments does that change the perspective in how you engage or how you kind of support a child through this process knowing that they come from this unstable environment well I mean absolutely absolutely you um well first of all you really have to recognize that people do the best they can in the environment that they're in so not um not looking negatively on the way people have chosen to cope with their challenges in life and instead looking at um those honestly I ever I can't look at a social media post that's not a a mom having wine at the end of the day because her kids are driving her crazy right and that's perfectly acceptable

[17:32]  but we don't recognize then that what we see in the families of the kids we're working with is a similar effort to cope with whatever the stressors are that that family is undergoing um and we recognize that uh things like substance addiction and alcohol addiction those are addictions and a disease but we don't necessarily treat it that way and then the other piece is that there is nowhere near enough access to help and support and treatment for those for those issues um and and when all you're doing every day is trying to survive because you're living in poverty or a situation a community that's unsafe um seeking out treatment for those things that make you feel better is not the top of your priority list it's probably how I'm going to keep the roof over my head and how I'm going to get to that job so

[18:19]  I don't get fired um that is on your mind so I mean I think recognizing the actual real challenges that human beings are dealing with that it's our obl ation as a as humans who work within the system to see these people as people just like us who are struggling and trying to find their way I mean the perspective that I have being born in 1990 was I saw the before time before the internet before the social media before the smartphone right after the smartphone I've started in my wiser years of being 34 years old I've started to become more of an observer of people around me and one of the things that is kind of alarming to me deep down in my subconscious is are inability to kind of regulate our emotions because we spend so much time on these devices anytime we feel uncomfortable in a social setting standing in line at grocery store what

[19:06]  is everybody do pulls out their device starts getting away escaping from this moment of instability or this inaccuracy of how we're feeling do you ever worry about the macro impacts of access to these little devices on AB to manage our ReliOn yeah 100% not only do we escape into them but we allow our kids to escape into them um we expose our kids to a world that isn't real that is not reality we lessen the value of relationships with the actual human beings who can have contact with them do you know all of the Neighbors in your neighborhood because I don't here's a scary statement I had this conversation on the podcast a couple weeks ago I don't know the names of any of my neighbors and I've lived in this house for two and a half years now which is terrifying to say there was a s there was a guy on the podcast named uh Jesus Guerrera who's the uh leader of an

[19:54]  organization out of Tennessee I believe and he said simple thought experiment if Lori if you were out of a cup of sugar would you go to your neighbor and ask for a cup of sugar or would you go to the store and go buy new sugar or have somebody like Postmates or Uber Eats drop it off at your house yeah I would not go to the neighbor right and so it's like the layer of convenience is like creating a disconnection in our societies which previous generations would look at us like we're crazy it's like why you going to go to the store when you could just borrow a cup of sugar from Lori who's your next door neighbor right and when I was a kid which was way before you were a k kid um you know the neighbors on My Block were my other mothers you know and my other fathers like somebody would yell at us to get off the garage roof and it wasn't my dad yelling at us to get off the garage roof it was the neighbors Dad

[20:41]  they knew exactly who our parents were and if we did something dumb everyone in the neighborhood knew about it we don't even know our neighbors anymore so how do we have a community that can look out for kids and wrap families with the supports they need we are isolated all of us are way too isolated we need more leaders like you Lord who can help us understand why it's so important to give love to so many people who need it because I think we're all so caught up in our own little worlds of like selfish PR and showing our highlights on social media that we forget to engage with the people who are around us who actually need our attention you don't do that you don't post on social media what your struggles are like that's not something you put out there so those folks who are struggling the most are very rarely putting out their I need help and if they do God forbid puts I need help in some neighborhood community group they

[21:29]  get torn up for having the nerve to have an issue or a need it's I know it's not a kind world anymore it's just not it's not so here let's talk a little bit about the impact you guys have been able to have over all these years how many lives have you guys impacted how many children have you helped find foster homes get adopted what does this look like from your guys perspective thousands and thousands I think within the last year we've served uh about 3,400 kids um in the states of Missouri and Kansas and their families um so this is our we're in our 25th year um of service and that number you know has just grown year-over year as we're spreading out geographically um the number of kids that are adopted goes is different year by year um but it continues to remain

[22:16]  steady several hundred a year we help facilitate adoptions for um we have added Services over time like we are really invested now in working with families who are at risk of having their kids come into care so that kind of work is tremendously important to us and we have very good success getting in there and working side by side with families to prevent their kids from having to come out of their home is that an intervention or is that like an education engagement process it's both we will walk with them one of the things we realize is that a lot of people want to pour education at you but they don't want to actually help you solve the problem so we get into a home and somebody is struggling and they don't have the furniture they need or they've got bed bugs in the house house or they actually don't have access to Transportation we're a nonprofit so we

[23:04]  can put a need out on our on our social media which has a positive side too right and we can uh you know find somebody who will uh come in uh Blue Blue Beetle in our area is a is a organization that it a company that treats bug stuff they'll come in every now and then and do a a a bed bug thing for us at somebody's house for cheap or free um so we can rally Community Resources to actually help make that difference for that family walk through them through their struggles talk to them about safety you know create not just educate but walk with them to solve those problems yeah partnership and collaboration is what people really need we don't need to be talked at we need to be talked with and help us navigate this time have did you

[23:52]  ever think that your journey of when you were 21 years old and applying to be a foster mom did you think that it was going to turn turn into the element of you creating this business 20 plus five 25 plus years later thousands of children placed like what did you think this journey was going to be like when you first got started no I really I thought my husband and I might end up adopting one child when I was a little girl uh my parents had considered adopting uh after the war in Vietnam this is how old I am so they had they had considered adopting a child at that time and so the idea of adoption was planted in my head and so I thought maybe we'll adopt one and um it never occurred to me that I would do anything other than just have a job and raise my kids you know um but the passion that you find in making a difference um not

[24:42]  just for your own kids and your own home and your own family but for the ability to help someone else solve a problem and take the burden and make it lighter for somebody else it it's just there's nothing like it so no I had no idea and I had no idea what we built in this little One-Stop shop would grow into this organization that we have now I had no idea and I could never have imagined it would be what it is how do you stay grounded in the sense of appreciation and gratitude for the impact that you're making while also recognizing that as you guys continue to expand there are more and more and more lives who need your support does it ever feel like there's a little bit of a dark side of the success and realization of how impactful you guys have been I think the hardest part of that is is you I'm a I'm very much of an optimistic person so for

[25:33]  me um the hardest part of it is trying to figure out how we retain who we are as we grow so um you know our organizational culture is really important to us and when we were an organization of three people and then an organization of 12 people that was way different than an organization of 300 people and so now it's how do we how do we retain who we are in our direct connection to these kids and families in a way that is um is is legit is real and meaningful to them how do we do that how do we keep our Focus where it needs to be on doing the right thing for kids and families and not get caught up in other drama how do we maintain that organizational culture as we grow out I'm not afraid of growth I embrace

[26:22]  growth and change and I love to have opportunities to try to wrap my brain around with the of these amazing people that work with me solutions to problems that we haven't found solutions for that's fun for me that like lights my soul on fire but um but how we keep people feeling uplifted and passionate along the journey with us that that keeps me up at night sometimes and what are some of the challenges that have come along with that process from being a small shop of three to a team of 300 your skill set as a leader I'm sure has had to morph change adapt to me meet the needs of the organization so what are some of the hurdles that you've been able to overcome during this journey of growth so many um I mean I didn't have a college degree when we started all of this I had to go back and get my

[27:10]  education while I was doing the work um uh learning about nonprofit management I have had like a life lesson I'm probably a doctorate in it now based on life you know um so many things making mistakes and learning along the way um but I think the thing that has guided me through is is um just a a sense of there that no is the beginning of this of the story of the conversation if it's the right thing for a kid or a family like so whatever the barriers are that are put in our way to doing the right thing we will find a way uh to overcome those go around them under them whatever we've got to do to get through those barriers that sometimes when you're getting to the right place people start pushing

[27:58]  back and that's when you face the most resistance so recognizing that as progress rather than as a sign that it's time to quit that's a big thing um learning from the mistakes as you go I'm a Victor Frankle fan from way back um you know I truly believe that in the challenges is when you have the best opportunity um to control your thinking and to choose to learn from those things and move forward um so so I mean those those are all some of the things we've had to overcome scaling everything uh you know getting National accreditations and developing all of the processes and procedures and and then reminding everybody that we wrote those so if it's not working for us we can actually

[28:44]  change them you know every now and then you get people that are black and white thinkers and you're like um yeah if it's not we can't redact this document well we created this document so we can actually do whatever we want yeah you know you mentioned something that I think is really important to double click on really quick which was you mentioned the word control right when you are the founder CEO leader of an organization often you have to play from your perspective of time in the future right I have to cast a vision for the future other people are going to believe in like you said often when you get close to those breakthroughs you often get threatened with a breakdown so how do you control your inner World your mindset the way in which you hold confidence in yourself as you're going through some of these breakdown to

[29:31]  breakthrough opportunities in your in your time here um I I just feel like in my actual life in raising my children um I have faced about every problem a human being can face um my husband and I I didn't tell you this before but two of our children had severe medical needs and we ended up losing them 5 years apart from each other they passed away we have overcome so much in our real life in raising our kids with every kind of issue imaginable that there's nothing that happens at work that feels like big stuff to me it's such a rare thing that there's anything that makes me go oh my God this is a problem we can't figure our way around my first inclination is to bring

[30:19]  together our leaders who are all amazing smart people on their own and say hey here's the problem we have what are we going to do about it and then we sit around and we brainstorm I am not a control freak I'm the opposite of that I I do not believe I know everything or have the answer to everything so if I can keep lighting the fire under people and encouraging their potential and their growth man they bring some wonderful Solutions in sometimes when I don't have a clue where we're going to go next man Lori that sense of perspective is so important you know so many of us get caught up in the idea that work is the end all Beall right but then life has a way of showing you what's truly important and what actually matters and I think a lot of people need to be tapped into that lifestyle or that mindset more so that like Hey listen this is just work and being able to show

[31:07]  up and provide services and support others is great but it's not the most important thing in the world you know what I mean at the end of the day yeah and and even that the work that we do isn't is that low I mean it is important work it's not like selling widgets at Walmart right it is that level of work but um but also there's a solution like I truly believe that people who work in and around child welfare generally care about doing the right thing for kids so the person sitting across from me may have a completely different perspective on how to get to the right thing for that kid but if we can recognize in each other that we both care then maybe we can find some compromised solution that gets us to where we need to be oh man I had a a CEO on the podcast named uh Matt perky who talked about the difference between differences and division he said

[31:56]  when you have a team and you guys have differences in how you want to attack a problem that's an awesome conversation because that gives us the ability to dive into different perspectives and ideas division on the other side is saying no we don't do things that way and creating those hard boundaries if you will that stop collaboration ideas which are often the best ones from coming to the top um and I think it's important to recognize that too 100% agree with that how are you thinking about technology being able to impact this space because what we're really talking about is Human Services we're talking about helping Services showing up human connection to be able to support somebody else is there a role for things like artificial intelligence or technology in this Service delivery or what are we thinking I don't know that we've thought our way around artificial intelligence yet that's still new out there um but technology has definitely impacted things um for example it it makes things far more

[32:45]  accessible to people no matter what their circumstances are like I don't think there's many human beings left in the United States of America who don't have a phone um and you know your phone is basically a small computer and so you can access uh people training uh information easily through that um and so getting word out to communities is immediate it's easy that has been a huge positive impact um one of the things we've struggled with however is not going too far that way like covid you know everybody did their thing from home and we are one of those organizations that we've come back like we can't lose our culture and we we recognize that we need to do this work together in community in our

[33:33]  organization in all of our different locations that's a necessary piece of it um but we also want to give people the flexibility that they need um and so we're balancing out okay how many days can we work from home where honestly you get so much more done because you're not getting interrupted 500 times versus how much time do we need to really be collaborative with the people that work with with us um I do think having the internet did allow for uh more accountability too um but I'm also worried about the spread of misinformation that occurred as a result of the internet and um people believing things that aren't real um and watching all of that and responding to all of

[34:22]  that the skill set of critical thinking is going to become a superpower in the future because there's a a big difference that we see on social media today is back upon the before times right Authority was based on factual evidence and knowledge Authority today is often accused with um with popularity just because you have a message that goes viral online and gets a couple million likes people think that that is the gospel but it's not we need to be critical thinkers about the information that we're being given what do you what what's kind of going to happen over 2025 into 2026 with what you guys are doing with your organization I want to give you an opportunity to kind of call what the next 13 12 and a half months look like for your guys organization well um more expansion we um we have defined our service area direct service area as the states of Missouri and Kansas um so we

[35:11]  are expanding geographically we're almost fully around the areas we need to be in the state of Missouri but we're growing in Kansas pretty significantly um we have brand new um incoming uh uh legislators in both of our states and at the national level so navigating uh the new direction that always occurs when there are changes in administration will help us to recognize what some of the challenges are going to be upcoming for our kids and families um we are looking forward to some collaborative projects within our community that address things like uh disproportionality and the number of kids that are in care in um in child welfare uh black and brown children are over represented in the foster care system we like to do something about

[35:58]  that when you reduce the number of kids in care addressing issues like that is a critical piece of it um so I we have lots of good work to do moving forward yeah I mean you guys are continuing to have an amazing impact and it's easy to understand why I thought it would be such an amazing idea to have you on the podcast you are the definition of heart and hustle right the hearts that started this journey 25 plus years ago turned into the hustle to impact thousands of lives a year and I hope that you have some time Lori to actually like reflect on the attitude of all the people who you've impacted across your lifetime and all the people have so much appreciation for the work that you do thank you Keenan that's super nice someday I want to reflect on that on a beach with a drink in my hand but that's still a little ways off there you go well you know part of our tradition on the podcast here is we love having our

[36:45]  previous guest ask you a blind question now this question is coming from a leader of an amazing Human Services organization um out of Illinois and he said in a time of Crisis or un certainty what does courage mean to you I think it means believing that there is a way through um and seeking that out tirelessly until we find it um I I think that is something that a lot of us are going to be dealing with uh as we're looking at the changes as a result of incoming new administrations recognizing right when it's right um seeing the crisis for what it is and believing there's a way through and

[37:32]  finding it and not forgetting to still continue to do the right thing every single day in my case it will be because these kids lives matter every life is valuable and Lori Ross thank you once again for coming on the show everybody who's tuning in watching and listening seriously we cannot thank you enough for being the definition of heart and hustle you are an amazing guest and we can't wait to have you back on the show someday thank you so much for joining us thanks Kenan