30 Years in Mental Health: What Actually Works | Kevin Martone

[0:00]  I talked to a person with serious mental illness one time and he said, "I hear voices. I can deal with the voices in my head. It's the fact that I'm homeless. I can't get a job and I'm probably going to die 25 years sooner than than you." We serve about 25,000 people a year at Bayove. Um we have uh 2,000 employees, so we're a a big employer. I think many providers like Bay Cove and other providers, you know, in Massachusetts and across the country, you know, if we had, you know, more resources to, you know, expand outpatient services, provide access to affordable housing, employment supports, you know, we could reach more people. We just, we can only take it so far. Systems need to provide better communications so that people are aware of services. Particularly if you're someone who, you know, maybe you're in poverty, you don't have access to transportation, you know, it's hard to get to services. you know, we're a nonprofit provider. We rely largely on government funding. Not always a lot of money for innovation, you know, and how do how do we start to think that way and use it? I think there's lots of potential, you know, with AI chatt. It doesn't necessarily have to replace clinical thinking, but it can inform clinical thinking. How can it make us work faster? Does it help people? Sure. Are there probably some best practices in there? Sure. You know, but we have to sort of caution about, you know, look at some of these, you know, are there the right guard rails to make sure that if someone's using an app or the technology to help guide them through their um engagement to treatment and things like that, you know, that there is some evidence base and it's tested so that they they can rely, you know, they can trust the source that they're going Welcome back to an episode here on the Heart and Hustle podcast alongside today's guest, Mr. Kevin. Kevin, where you located at right now, man? Looks like you're really cold.

[1:54]  I am sitting in Boston, Massachusetts. It's a little on the warm side for us today. Um, so I'm good, but I'm here in Boston.

[2:00]  When you say warm side, what is warm to you over in Boston?

[2:03]  I think it's about 45° out there today. So, uh, that's warm. I was almost breaking a sweat walking to the office today.

[2:09]  Listen, I'm in Florida. 65 degrees. Freezing. My toes are freezing cold out here, Kevin.

[2:15]  Yeah, it's I mean, there's part of me that envies that, but uh, you know, I we'll take this as a warm day here.

[2:21]  Kevin, what what brings you to Boston, man? You you've had a hell of a career. Um, you once considered a career with FBI, but here you are in in a nice little office in Boston. Kind of walk us how you got to where you First, let's start off. Who are you? Where where you were representing? What is your role in this organization?

[2:39]  Yeah. Uh, my name is Kevin Martone, president and CEO for Be Human Services, and we're based here in Boston. I've been here for about 10 months now. Um, I've lived in the Boston area for about 14 years. I was I was running a national nonprofit that did work in mental health and substance use disorders and homelessness. Um and and even prior to that, I you know had sort of grown up in in providing services in in New Jersey. And we can talk a little bit about that. Um but I I took a job at the as the CEO here at Bay Cove um a direct services provider in mental health and homelessness and substance use disorders. Um

[3:14]  because I just enjoyed throughout my career providing services and working with folks. Um, and this was a terrific opportunity for me to, you know, work in a in a urban environment providing services and, uh, you know, something where I thought in a in the tail end of my career, it was an opportunity for me to come full circle from, you know, where I've been, uh, to be able to provide services again.

[3:36]  Love it. So, this is where you're kind of at the tail end. Let's kind of go back though where it all began. You talked about Jersey. Let's go back. Where did it all start?

[3:44]  Yeah. You know, grew up in New Jersey. Um, and uh, you know, um, went into college and, um, you know, when when I realized my plans to become a professional baseball pitcher weren't going to work out and reality had to set in, um, you know, I thought about going into law enforcement. I wanted to go into the FBI. I thought that would be a really cool cool thing to do. and uh you know when I graduated um had landed a job at a community mental health center first um and really just fell in love with it and and made a decision that I'd rather do that type of work um even though the FBI was really intriguing um I sort of came full circle and said you know I'd rather help people than bust people and I just really stayed in that course of human services and mental health you know for my entire career. mental health, man. Because you started so long ago, right? Did I just make you old just now? It says so long ago. Kevin, I apologize here. You told me where the to end of your career, though. Okay.

[4:42]  Yeah. Listen, I I my I I keep trying to tell my wife that I have blonde hair and she's now it's gray. It's gray, man.

[4:48]  I love it. But you being in this space of uh mental health for so long, man, I you probably seen a lot of growth. Um where are we today compared to where were we when you first started in this space?

[4:59]  Yeah, it's a great question. You know, we've in some respects we've made a lot of progress. In other respects, we're we're way behind where we should be. You know, um you know, the the field has evolved where we know there are some best practices and treatments that work. Psychopharmarmac's come a long way. Community based services, evidence-based programs, things like that we, you know, supported housing that we run, you know, are things that are working. Um you know, but at the same time, you know, we haven't found ways to prevent mental illness. We haven't found cures for mental illness. medications still aren't great. Um, people still have a hard time accessing it. Stigma is very real, you know. So, we've got and, you know, even on that, top of that, we've got a lot of, uh, headwinds in front of us, you know, in terms of new policies that might be coming out of the federal administration, state budget challenges, and all of those things. So, you know, we've come a long way. A lot of people are recovering from mental illness and doing well and and getting in jobs, but we're also have a lot of people who are still struggling and not accessing treatment and you know it that's that's a shame.

[6:05]  You say not accessing the treatment. Is it a communication thing as in they just don't know that it exists in their backyards? Is it that um what is the need there for those?

[6:16]  Yeah, it's a combination. Sometimes it's that, right? You know, systems need to provide better communication so that people are aware of services. you know, there's sort of deserts where services don't just just don't exist. You know, even in an urban state, you know, like Massachusetts, there are pockets where it's hard to access services, particularly if you're someone who, you know, maybe you're in poverty, you don't have access to transportation, you know, it's hard to get to services, you know, or particularly if you live in rural parts of this country where services just don't exist. You know, you have a lot of those challenges. You know, taotherapy, tellaalth is a thing. it works for many people but many people in this country still don't have access to broadband internet you know so they don't even have access to to to do teleaotherapy you know so there's lots of those challenges um you know I think many providers like Be and other providers you know in Massachusetts and across the country you know if we had you know more resources to you know expand outpatient services provide access to affordable housing employment supports you know we could reach more people just we can only take it so far.

[7:21]  Where do you think we're at right now in a space of also chat GPT, right, where people like I've I've heard some say that they'll talk to Chat GPT as a therapist. What is your thoughts on on on that? I mean, obviously not the best as something, but what do you think on that?

[7:36]  Yeah, you know, I think there's lots of potential, you know, with AI chatpt um you know, and it's rapidly evolving and we sort of got to watch it. You know, I look at it as, you know, I you know, we're a nonprofit provider. We re rely largely on government funding, you know, for for our for our services. You know, there's not always a lot of money for innovation, you know, and how do how do we start to think that way and use it? Um, you know, and there's some culture change, right? Um, how can it make us work faster? You know, how can it help us um think about um you know, even our interventions? you know, it doesn't necessarily have to replace clinical thinking, but it can inform clinical thinking, you know, um how can it um help us with our overall improving our overall performance and you know, key performance measures and helping us keep track of those things. Um you know, but I think there have to be guard rails, you know, like there's a whole industry of apps that are out there now for people that they can just download and, you know, get their depression scores and get therapy and things like that. And that's the wild wild west in that industry, you know, and you know, does it help people? Sure. Are there probably some best practices in there? Sure. You know, but we have to sort of caution about, you know, look at some of these, you know, are there the right guard rails to make sure that if someone's using an app or the technology to help guide them through their um engagement to treatment and things like that, you know, that there is some evidence base and it's tested so that they they can rely, you know, they can trust the source that they're going to.

[9:05]  Yeah. I just really also think like while it's great it's a really good tool that persontoperson interaction it's just there's nothing like it even even this this is great but I was just talking to my partner and I'm like man one thing is about doing a podcast virtual what what a podcast looks like in person is completely different because the energy is different right the relationship becomes a little bit different so while I do love the AI world I do feel that we're in a space that it it has that face to face it's someone to understand you know have that empathy and things like that. So, yeah, cool world. But, yeah, I definitely see the guard rails as well because everyone's going to believe everything that these apps give them, right?

[9:43]  Well, I mean, you have to think, too. I mean, there's, you know, how many people 300 million Americans in this country or even, you know, think about the rest of the world. And everybody's different, right? Some people are going to want to interact in the office with a therapist. Some people are going to value the teleotherapy relation. You know, my wife is a taotherapist. Her practice is built around doing taotherapy. you know, other people, you know, they're on social media and and they enjoy those apps and things like that. And there's a role for that, too, right? You just got to sort of make sure there's some evidence base to support it. And we're we're that's hard for us as an industry to do is sort of develop that evidence base.

[10:19]  Yeah. How big is the organization? Like how many people are you serving? 2025 just ended. You guys got a a stat on how many people kind of

[10:25]  Yeah. So, we we serve about 25,000 people a year at Bay Cove. Um we have uh 2,000 employees. So we're a a big employer. You know, we serve the greater Boston area um down through eastern Massachusetts out onto Cape Cod. Um you know, so you know, we're an important service provider and community member in many many places. But I also look at us as it's important for us to be a good employer, too, right? Because we employ 2,000 people. Um you know, and you know, we when people go to work, they they should enjoy their job and the place that they work at. And that's that's an important thing for us, too. If the Heart and Hustle podcast has ever sparked any idea or made you think differently, do us a favor. Make sure to guys share this, post it on LinkedIn, or even text that nonprofit friend that you just have. Whatever works. This is what keeps the conversation going and allows us to just grow this community together. Seriously, we appreciate you. I'm I'm put you on the hot seat here as well, real quick. So, you talked about 2,000 employees. What are the values as a leader that you put out there that you hope that they take?

[11:30]  Yeah, I I don't know. I've sort of learned throughout my career first and foremost is just be genuine and treat people with dignity and respect, right? Like you got to have that first. Um you know, and then when I'm working in an organization, um you know, there's big things that we deal with every day, huge.

[11:49]  Um but at the same time, it's it's keep it simple,

[11:53]  listen first. Um and you know be humble. You know, I always tell people u and I hope like some of the things that I I try to live by are also modeling how I sort of want our employees to sort of work and engage you know and I als I will always say to folks I know what I know and I know what I don't know right and so you know that listening being humble you know if you sort of bring that to the organization you can generate a lot of respect with your employees and you know um it's hard for me to know every single employees game, you know, but when I go out and talk to employees in our programs, I want to be able to have that level of engagement that, you know, I'm genuine, they're genuine, you know, they're talking to me personto person, not employee to CEO, you know, um, those are important things for me.

[12:41]  And as a leader, what are the 2026 goals for your organization? Where do you guys see yourself? I'm pretty sure there's that plan already put in place, but what do you guys see yourself at the end of the year?

[12:50]  Yeah, matter of fact, we just had a strategic planning meeting this morning, you know, with our team. Um, you know, yeah, couple of goals we're trying to, I think, really focus on this year because we serve so many people, right? You know, it's really important for us to, you know, have a welcoming and a wellnessoriented environment for our clients. You know, um, you know, many of the folks that we serve come in with, you know, mental illness, other disabilities, have experienced trauma. We want to make sure that not only are we providing good services, but that it's a really welcoming and wellnessoriented environment that they can feel good about that. and we're going to put some initiatives in there along those lines. Um, you know, the second thing was related to that being a good employer, you know, and how can we, you know, have a skilled and caring workforce, you know, that's well trained, good with the clients, you know, but feel that they're valued members of an agency, you know, so trying to really make sure that we're building in, you know, good um wellness programs for our staff and good benefits packages for our staff so that, you know, it's a whole package for them. Um, you know, we've got a couple of challenges ahead of us in the environment trying to protect funding, you know, uh, from federal funding and, um, you know, there's a lot of federal funding cuts that got rolled out today, unfortunately, and the state budgets are always hard. So, some of it is just keeping what we have afloat. Um, you know, and then looking for opportunities where we can, you know, in innovate and and and reach, you know, underserved populations, you know, in the areas that we serve. So, those are kind of the the highlights for the next year. You mentioned just kind of some of the situations that are happening at the government level, man. And it's so sad because it you nonprofits are feeling it, schools are feeling it, like just healthcare is feeling it all across the board obviously feeling it

[14:29]  and to know that that's where a lot of the organizations funds come from. What are you guys doing differently? Because I think as leaders, they're also kind of listening to Kevin on, okay, so what strategic things can I do to kind of think outside the box where I can still kind of get that funding? because we just had an organization that they um they lost a big grant that allow it was a health center and I guess it was like one of their main portals, welcome portals. It was all funded by grant that grant got taken away eruptly and like now they don't have it. So what are you guys doing to kind of think outside the box?

[14:58]  Yeah, it's tough. It's a really tough environment. You know, I mean we try to diversify our funding base as much as we as we can, right? So, we do have a mix of federal and state and and various city funding to sort of help, you know, cover our our services. Um, you know, but that's fragile. Um, you know, we um, you know, we have a $190 million operating budget at Bay Cove. It's a big operating budget. Um, and a relatively small percentage of that is just from like fundraising and philanthropy, you know, and so we're trying to figure out is there a way we can sort of push that up a little bit, you know, get the brand recognition out there, you know, really try to generate some interest from, you know, foundations or just general wealth. You know, we live in in Boston and Cambridge area. It is a wealthy part of the country. You know, people want to give and be supportive. How can we sort of build those partnerships and tap into that, too? Um, you know, is is really important to us. Um and then at the same time trying to be lean and mean you know as efficient as we can you know so that if we are challenged with funding you know that we are maximizing the dollars that we have to protect the services that we have.

[16:06]  Oh man. And only 10 months in that the strategy sounds good and I know that if you're going to execute you and the team will continue to execute. Yeah. Um it is very very tough times and I I I hear that all the times is how do we get more of the community involved and it is that sometimes that lack of how do we communicate? What is what do you think is that communication piece that maybe you haven't tapped into that you should be tapping into?

[16:28]  Yeah. Well, you know, I've had a I've had some conversations with some of our fellow providers in the city area and um you know, when it comes to mental illness and substance use disorders and overdoses and homelessness, I feel like um there was some good movement with the narrative, meaning, you know, if we can take a public health approach and we can, you know, think of ways to get people access to affordable housing and invest in in those things, we're going to have a good return on investment, right? and people are going to do well and and and and and all that. In the last couple years, I feel like we're losing that narrative, right? So, there's a little bit more of a backlash on people who are homeless in the community, people who are experiencing substance use disorders or experiencing mental health challenges and how do we regain that narrative, you know, and that's something we're talking about and trying to reshape out there, you know, not that, you know, you don't want us in the community. No, you actually need us in the community because we're able to help your neighbors, you know, get into treatment, get recovery oriented and things like that. And um you know, that's a challenge. And so, you know, if we can regain the narrative a little bit, the general public is going to be more willing to support uh philanthropy may be more willing to invest, you know, and we really need to change that narrative. You know, we during COVID, I thought we had it to some degree, right? When you think about when you go back to COVID and sort of all the isolation and people were just home, right?

[17:57]  Y

[17:58]  when you look at the data on mental health and substance use disorders during that period of time and even suicide attempts and overdoses, those numbers rose, right? People's the country's overall mental health got poor poorer that during that time,

[18:11]  you know, and I think there was a greater awareness that mental health challenges can be real for folks. and coming out of co and kind of getting back into the norm and just the current political environment, we're just losing some of that. We got to get it back.

[18:24]  I agree, man. I felt like during that time, everyone was talking about mental health.

[18:28]  Everybody felt it.

[18:30]  Yeah. Yeah. And and now when you go out in the world and you're working a nineto-ive, you're just kind of

[18:35]  honestly the rat race and you just kind of think it's normal, but it's really not. And then you get that breakin point. And you know another statistic that I've seen and I don't know if this is kind of helping um that uh the consumption of alcohol is going down. Is that helping in the mental health space do you think?

[18:51]  Yeah. You know I don't know right so I mean al when you think about overdoses and substance use disorder you know everybody talks about theo the overdose epidemic but alcoholism you know and alcohol use disorder is still the primary substance use disorder over everything. And so, you know, that may be decreasing, you know, but is there sometimes what we see is, well, is it being replaced by something else, right? And, you know, not going to be judgmental about anything, but, you know, are more people using marijuana or other types of drugs in substitute for alcohol? And I think we have to see how that that plays out.

[19:25]  I I think it's definitely that I think it's the going from alcohol to marijuana. Is it better for some, you know, and I think that's the whole situation that we have to figure out. But you are right. I think people don't realize and I actually learned this from a friend. I very young friend. I went I went over with a drink and I says, "Hey, you want a drink?" He says, "I don't drink.

[19:45]  I've been sober for 10 years." Yep.

[19:47]  Mind you, he is 35 years old. So I'm like, "You've been sober, you know, thinking he's joking. You've been sober for 25 for 10 years." He's like, "Yeah." I'm like, "What do you mean?" And I asked the question why,

[19:58]  right? And he said every time he consumed alcohol, alcohol led to other things. Yeah. So he wouldn't do alcohol anymore because he didn't want the other life. And you know, he talked about just at his 21st birthday being in um in rehab.

[20:14]  You know, it it's it's crazy to even think that that's what takes people down that that that lane. It's amazing.

[20:22]  One of the things I kind of bothers me sometimes is because I have a someone in in the kind of the situation that people think, well, they have the ability to change, they just don't want to.

[20:34]  Yeah.

[20:36]  Is how real and unreal is that, Kevin?

[20:39]  You know, it's a combination of things, right? I mean, um I don't I almost sometimes I think I frame it like I think about it this way. you know, you take someone who's maybe, you know, um, you know, addicted to heroin or, you know, or alcohol or or whatever it is, and, you know, I think back to when they were a kid, did they grow up to aspire to be addicted to heroin, you know, or homeless or things like that? And there's so much that comes into play, right? And then when those things happen, you're just like, well, get off it, right? Well, we know with alcoholism for instance, you know, even you know, the physical addiction if you have if your if your body is physically addicted to alcohol, you know, it's actually potentially fatal to go through withdrawal on that if if it's not in a medically supervised environment, right? So, it's not just like I'm going to quit because once those withdrawal things start to to phase in, the reality of all that comes into play for you. And so, you know, you have to look at it as, you know, what can you do to sort of help a person along their recovery journey? You know, getting them access to treatment supports, you know, maybe some of the newer medications that can help in withdrawal and treating the addiction, u replacing those things with healthy habits. It's really a combination of things that can help a person sort of move through that trajectory. And at the same time, what we've learned in the field, particularly the addictions field over the over the past several decades, is, you know, it may not be all or nothing for some folks, right? And that harm reduction type of approach, you know, for some people may be okay. You know, when you think about, you know, when they're at their worst, maybe they're homeless, they're incarcerated, they're, you know, all these bad things in their life. But for them to be 100% sober and clean is not realistic. But if they are using less employing more healthy lifestyles, things like that, they're better off. Their family and social networks are probably better off and it's probably cheaper for society, you know. So those harm reduction approaches too are absolutely critical when we're talking particularly about substance use disorder. you being in this space for so long, man, is there a story, and I know there's plenty, but is there a story that you just go to just kind of get your cup filled on a day that maybe you're overwhelmed and asking yourself, why do I do this? And you go back to that story. Can I imagine there has to be one?

[22:56]  Yeah. You know, I don't know if there's a story. Um because the recovery stories for folks, there's so many of them,

[23:03]  you know. Um, and I'll I'll talk to clients um, sometimes when I'm walking in the building, you know, um, and and and they're out coming in for services and, you know, literally have had folks say, you know, the services that you guys provide have saved my life, you know, or I was able to, you know, get a go back to work. I was able to go get a degree. I was, matter of fact, one of our programs down the road um did a sort of a graduation ceremony for folks um about a month and a half ago and um there was an individual in there who talked about his journey through mental illness and actually having been in a state hospital for many years and came out to our day program uh our clubhouse um got engaged um got him on the track of employment then he went to school got himself his uh graduate degree and law degree. This is a guy who lives with a serious mental illness, right? And so that filled my cup because you can see this is someone who came through a lot of adversity. The service and the services and system work for him. His his internal motivation sort of pushed him through, you know, and this is a guy who got his law degree. Um, you know, so those recovery stories all the time or they they fill the cup. That that's what sort of makes you want to come back to this.

[24:17]  Yeah. Hell of a story, man. When you hear that, it's like, man, anything is possible, right? When you hear those those stories,

[24:23]  absolutely.

[24:23]  And it's like, what are we really complaining about? Someone sat out here really had to

[24:27]  right

[24:28]  to work. That's that's hard work. Um, is there any stigmas you think people have out there that that believe that we should debunk that you probably hear all the time?

[24:37]  Yeah, all the time. Um, you know, it's uh it's frustrating too because you sort of learn it over the years and you know um but um you know you still have a lot of you know people with mental illness should be just put back in institutions you know um you know people with developmental disabilities you know shouldn't even be born you know or should be in institutions you know people with mental meal with substance use disorders you know the addicts should be in jail or prison you know um and so you hear a lot of that you these people can't work. See, I told you they couldn't hold a job. You know, a lot of that stuff that's just been disproven over time. And people just hold on to these, you know, these um just just these perceptions and stigma for whatever reasons, you know, and you know, trying to bust that's been really hard, you know, and I feel like I I think we could do just generally a better job on education there from, you know, in home and families, you know, in schools, you know, if we're talking about and if you're in health class, right, and you're talking about physical health, they should be talking about mental well-being and mental health, you know, and teaching about the science of it, not the stigma related to it.

[25:47]  So,

[25:48]  yeah, I mean that's a whole conversation if you want to get into the educational part of what we should be learning in schools. But, uh, no, I I think that's why as resources like yourself is like even harder, right? Because it's something that was never shown or taught to somebody and it's it's there ideally at their fingertips. They just don't know about it.

[26:07]  And think about this, right? If you if you're walking down a street, right, so there's a stigma perception. people with mental illness are violent, right? Well, the data doesn't show that first off, right? But if you're walking down the street and you see someone who may be homeless with schizophrenia who's responding to voices or they're they're delusional and they're saying that they're, you know, from outer space or something, right? People, what do they do? They they have this perception that that person is violent. And who do they call? They call the police, right? They call 911. There's a guy out here. I think he's violent. just because you're talking to you're talk you're hearing voices and talking to yourself doesn't mean you're violent, right? And so how do you sort of provide that education and people learn about those things um you know and then how do you have systems that can respond appropriately? One of the biggest challenges in the system particularly on a mental health and substance disorder side is we don't have a lot of crisis intervention services available. So, right, the default crisis intervention provider in the country is police, right?

[27:05]  So, it's the stigma, but it's also the systems. What can you do to uh prevent that?

[27:10]  I love it, man. And you guys have so many programs really to just

[27:13]  help people, right? And that's really what this is about is to share that word. Um, so many programs, so many resources. You talked about so many people that have come through last year. Uh, the team, 2,000 people that kind of helped this engine run as well. when all this is said and done because you did mention that you're kind of at that tail end. I don't know, you probably have another 10 years. Who knows?

[27:34]  I got

[27:36]  but when this is all said and done and you say I got to hang up the boots now. Um what would you want to see? H how would you want to leave it?

[27:44]  Yeah. I mean I'll first say this. I mean it's you know having been in the field for so long and done some national work and you know I kind of look back and say boy have I failed right? like what have I done to actually contribute because we started out there's some good things that are being done but there's just so long to go you know

[28:01]  um

[28:02]  I think if there were a couple of things you know it would be um that I mean this is sort of high level stuff but you know that services are accessible for anybody who needs them right just it's such so so important um you know that we're addressing sort of these other social drivers of health for folks right so you I I I talked to a person with serious mental illness one time and he said, "Listen, I hear voices. I can deal with the voices in my head." All right? It's the fact that I'm homeless. I can't get a job and I'm probably going to die 25 years sooner than than you, right? And those are the realities for folks. So, it would be we, you know, even if we can't cure mental illness or prevent substance use disorder, it would be that the other things these social drivers of health we've addressed. We're providing more affordable housing for folks. We're helping people get work better. You know, we're getting people access to primary care so that they can live lives as long as everybody else. Those are some of the things that I think, you know, in 10 years, you know, I would say like for me would be, you know, real successes if we made improvements in those area.

[29:12]  Love that. Love that. Kevin, you're doing the work, man. We're going to get there. We're gonna get there. You got a lot of years to go. Okay. Got a lot of years.

[29:18]  Yeah. I Yeah. Yeah. So,

[29:21]  I had a uh as we wrap this up, I had a bl a different blind question, but because I remember what you said earlier on in the uh the conversation, you mentioned that you wanted to be a pitcher.

[29:32]  Yeah.

[29:32]  The question really is, was it Boston or New York? Who you playing for, man?

[29:40]  So, I I'm not shy. It was definitely the Yankees, you know, and I take I take some heat up here in Boston for my for my my my employees and everything. And uh it's always it's a good funny, you know, funny. Listen, I'm good with the New England Patriots. I follow the Bruins, so I've sort of come, you know, a long way, but the Yankees are sort of my core.

[29:59]  I love it. I love it, man. Where can people find more information about the organization, what you guys are doing, socials, all that good stuff. Where can they find out?

[30:05]  Yeah, so you know, our website uh uh at uh bakeov.org. Um it's bove.org. You know, we're on Instagram, Beov Human Services. We're on Facebook. You know, take a look at us. We do a lot on on Instagram. Um and we're on LinkedIn as well. If you look up Bayove human services, we do a lot on LinkedIn. So, you know, we're always up to some good stuff. Um you know, we try to get some of our stories out there. Um we try to bring in, you know, particularly through a lot of our philanthropy, you know, bringing folks in, you know, bringing companies in to help us at our shelters and and work at some of our programs. So, you know, we're always we're always looking for folks that want to, you know, even if it's not monetarily, to really help volunteer with us. So, you know,

[30:46]  we the more the more folks that we could bring in externally, you know, the the better we're at at getting over the stigma and all of those things. So,

[30:53]  100%. Well, Kevin, I appreciate your time, man, as a leader, taking the time out and just giving us some insight what's happening in your life, what's happening um on the back end of what you guys are doing. This is this is a global situation, right? It's not just happening in Boston. You're just a piece of the pie. So, I appreciate to just kind of insight on that. My name is Era. This is Kevin. If you want more conversations like this, make sure you do go like, subscribe, and comment. We'll catch you on the next one.