AdvisaCare's Kelly Fischer Reveals Why Hospice Patients Live Longer Than Expected

[0:16]  Welcome back to another episode here on the Hard and Hustle Podcast. This guest, listen, I'm so excited because today, this week's guest has been really good. But what you don't realize is most CEOs actually chase margin. And in this case, we're not chasing margins. Kelly, what are we chasing?

[0:31]  We're chasing a great end of life, which is unusual to talk about, but yes, that's what we're chasing here.

[0:38]  And what got you started in the end of life? A conversation that people don't like to have often, but you know, I actually was because I'm having these conversations more and more with individuals and leaders like yourself. I started to tell my friend that she said, "Can you please not talk about it?" I said, "We're all going to die sometime."

[0:53]  Well, I have to tell you, I was the same way. Um, I grew up in New York City and I was a junkie for intensive care units and emergency room. I ended up in a um, trauma center level one which I loved and I followed that pathway across the country for quite a bit. But um, I got pulled in just one day. I went out with a a nurse that was doing hospice. I spent a day with her. Her name was Maggie Kalinan. She's written two books, Final Gifts and Final Journeys. and I spent a day with her not knowing that she was the author of this book and it changed my life. She was working with people that were seriously ill. They were taking tons of um drugs for comfort but still living and still doing things and and joking and enjoying their lives and working on pain management so that they could enjoy their lives. And it was so different from what I was experiencing in the hospital and in the ER when there was like feudal care. and I just decided at that moment to change my life and get into hospice. So, um I did that. I worked with her for about two and a half years. Um and then for for different reasons, I had to step away for a little bit and then I came back into it in 2000. Um and still love it very much. I took another break um in 2019, but um and to write myself, but then um I came back to it again here in Arizona, and I'm very happy that I did. This is I hope my last hospice home. Uh we're growing it. It's very small. So yes, we have all the challenges of a business and getting it up and growing, but we're also having the challenges of just educating people about what a really good endof life recipe is and how do we get there and what do we do to celebrate someone's life? So it's really been an interesting journey.

[2:41]  You know, you mentioned Arizona. I don't know. I forgot that's where you were located. And my friend, I mean, I'm in Florida just as hot. But, uh, my friend said it's like a 120 degrees the other day. So, I'm glad to see you in the AC, not sweating, you know, cuz I can only imagine the Arizona heat is nothing to play with. Huh.

[2:57]  It It does get really hot out here. And we worry about our staff. We do um try to do some fun things to keep everybody hydrated, but actually so far this summer has been pretty mild. So, we're very happy about that. Last summer you would walk outside and your heels got stuck in the tar. It was just so hot. But this summer so far, knock on wood, has been great.

[3:17]  See, she's from Boston. She moved out there last year. So to her, this is extremely hot, right? When you come over from a Boston weather and uh you know, for us, we have a humidity is crazy right now. Actually, it says hot days ahead. That's literally the notification that my computer is telling me on the bottom left. Like what? What do you mean? It's already hot. Now, let's get back to it. So, you leave hospice multiple times. You said to write write a book. Is that what it was?

[3:39]  I did. Um, you know, with all those years of all the families that I was with and the patients, some of the stories they shared and some of the experiences I had, I really felt if I shared some of that with people, they would be less frightened about dying and maybe families or volunteers would come in, your community would come together. So, it's kind of a um book that I I haven't had it published yet. It's I'm waiting for that next step, but um it's a book about a recipe for how to die well and also has some recipes in it that are really good.

[4:13]  Kelly, you got to get it out there. What are you doing?

[4:15]  I know. I know. I Well, I came here to Arizona. I didn't think that this job was going to be as all-encompassing that it is. It's um it's been interesting, but I am getting ready to get back on the side to work on the book and get that out and going because I do have a passion for helping us to look at hospice and end of life care differently. We definitely made it a medical model in our country. Um and it it's just sad. It really shouldn't be so medical oriented. Uh you don't really need a doctor's order or even a professional team to die well. But when you do have a good team and a good physician on that team, you can have a very good end of life and still celebrate every moment until you can't. So that's what we're doing here.

[5:00]  Hey, real quick. Have you enjoying the podcast? We first want to say thank you. And we also just want to give you a little insight of what we're up to at Francis. Some don't even realize that we're working with organizations to help them use AI to create that real human communication experiences. where that's actually supporting your your families, those patients or the entire community. We're actually creating tech that connects. Check it out. Francis.ai. And I mean, you work working across the country. What did Arizona actually bring you that maybe other hospice companies didn't provide or something different that you see here with the organization you're with today that maybe others just weren't implementing? Well, I actually um found that from working in the East Coast and then in the Midwest for a long time, um they've pretty much offer the full Medicare hospice benefit, which is a great benefit. Um helps people really who have no cure left to enjoy their life, get pain under control, put things in order, and maybe find some joy and have some fun. Um, in Arizona, I think that there's a tendency to just wait until the last few days, and that's what's made it so challenging for me here, very different from the rest of the country that I've experienced this far. So, um, I think we're bringing something or I'm bringing something to Arizona that it you should be getting engaged earlier. You may live longer. There's studies that show that. So, I've had people here say, "Oh, no. It's just for the last few days." I'm like, whoa, no, that's really not a good time. You know, yes, we'll help you for those last few days, but if you came on a few months before, we'll really be able to help you and your family. So, I think we're Advisor Care here in Arizona is doing that. We're really focusing on what's important to the patient, the patients families. Um, do the hard work and then what do you want to do for fun? So, those are things

[6:57]  and I remember our last conversation, Kayla, you mentioned hospice isn't just about theft, it's about life, right? And what's a bold statement to really make when people are in fear of of what death actually looks like? What does that actually look like in real time though, you'd say?

[7:13]  Wow, that's an interesting question. Um, I think everyone's death is really individual, but around the world, whether here or England or Germany or

[7:24]  the Middle East, anywhere, as we're actually dying are just we tend to wind down. our systems wind down and we're sleeping more, we're eating less, we're drinking less, and everything kinds of shuts down. It seems to be very peaceful if you don't have a disease that's causing pain. So, it seems to be a very natural process for us as a species on this planet to go through just like all the other species. Um, it seems very natural and um shouldn't really be painful from what we've learned. But disease plays a big role in pain. So in hospice programs that are really good and paliative care programs that work towards pain management that's our goal is to help you feel less pain and be more comfortable um as you're on that journey. But that's really the very end like the last few days maybe few weeks of our lives. If you're doing a good job in pain management up until that time you can still be going out and doing things. Um, we've had people here in Arizona, fishing is a big thing. They like going to casinos, um, go shopping at a mall. Uh, there are things that people want to do before they die. And our goal is to help them get comfortable that they can do that. So, it's not just the last few days.

[8:40]  We've had people want to go to concerts. You know, it's just really been fun to um ask them what's important to you and what do you want to do and then help them get there. Is this just uh one location that you guys have in Arizona or there's multiple locations throughout the uh country?

[8:57]  We um this organization, the um mother company is really up in Michigan. Um so they have several hospice offices there and in Arizona we have an office in Tucson as well. It's um just getting its feet on the ground and up and going. So we're mostly in Phoenix and um Chandler area here.

[9:17]  Okay. So yeah, for those that wanted to know where exactly located, I think it's actually good. And what would it take to make hospice care feel less like a system as you mentioned and more like support?

[9:29]  That's a good question, too. Um, just being having a team that helps you feel knowledgeable. Um, I had a I met a gentleman the other day, he's very sweet gentleman that asked me, you know, I don't know what death looks like and he knows that he's seriously ill. So, we talked about it and um he has a better understanding. Same question as you asked earlier. What what does it actually look like? And am I doing that right now? I'm like, no, you're not. You're not doing that right now. You're sitting up and talking to me and I really want to find out what's important to you that you have everything in order. What will give you joy? And he was thinking about it. And I do tease people. And I said, you know, if you want to, you can go to a Diamondback game and see the New York Mets play. And he was the first patient that said, I do love the Mets. Unfortunately, they've already played with the Diamondbacks, but he will think about going to a baseball game, which is kind of cool. Um, so that's going to be our goal as we're working with him and his family and help normalizing, but he's got to get used to using some opioids, too. We're really good at symptom management and he's going to start with baby steps of using some morphine to feel a little less short of breath when he gets up and get used to that feeling because um this is a time when using opioids is a good moment in time. It's not illegal. It's well monitored and controlled and it helps people who have serious illness to feel better and be able to do things. So, he is testing it with his family and they're all ready to support him to do that. They're really excited. He got his morphine delivered on um Saturday night and he let me know it's here. It's here. It's like okay, you could take a baby dose and see how it works. He still hasn't tried it yet. I think he's waiting for us to be present in the room at the same time and we'll have that probably happen this week. I'm not his nurse, so I they may have already tried it. I'll have to find out how he's doing.

[11:26]  Was it you that told me the story about the bears?

[11:29]  Yes.

[11:30]  I I love that story. I thought it was you and I share that story often because like to know that we're helping our elderlies in a space where it's like this is what you want. How did we make it happen? And then because you mentioned that u the morphine, it reminded me of that story, but I think what a cool story it is that you guys were able to give him those three moments with all his kids to go hunting, right? And then he he dies peacefully. So yeah, I I bring that all the time, but there's also some cool things that you guys are doing like skydiving VR. Like those are some of the things that we we're hearing. Um AI it's it's AI it's technology like where are you guys utilizing AI um more of to kind of continue what you guys are already doing and elevating.

[12:13]  Well that's pretty much the focus really is that those virtual trips. So even this gentleman has never been to Ireland that I mentioned and that is something he'd like to do and I don't I don't know he probably could make it there but um he wouldn't mind doing a virtual trip to Ireland. So just expanding our library on virtual trips with AI in that sense. It is a little scary when people do activities. We had one gentleman that wanted to fly out of a plane or jump out of a plane. He was a a World War II vet and he felt that if George Bush could do it, he should be allowed to do it. And we were like, "No, you have disease. Like your your bones would not be able to handle it, but we could get you a virtual trip." And as soon as he put that on, he was like his hands went up. He was flying. and we have to actually stay in the room because you do feel like you're having the trip and we didn't want him to get up and fall over. So, we had to just stay with him. But he had a great time. He really enjoyed his parachute virtual parachute um jump. So, those are the ways that we're going to continue to use AI for patient care. any other ways that you feel that even from logistics maybe admin that you guys are able to help uh with that AI is helping you guys do more of the things you guys love and less of the repetitive task. Well, um we're a smaller company, so yes, I would like to do more. Um financially, we still have to grow those margins, which we're we are doing now. Um so, yes, there are a lot of things that we'd like to do that would be um much more fun if AI could take over some of the tedious tasks. So, just even getting people on board and the education, pulling it all together, I'd like that to happen. So, it is something we'll be looking at as we continue to grow. Definitely. Are you testing out chat GPT yet?

[14:00]  We um we use it in a variety of ways for asking questions, finding out the norms, and we'll also use it for writing. So, if we're writing a summary, we might, you know, do that initial thing and then just let them fix it. It looks so much better.

[14:15]  I love that you guys are using it. That's always kind of the start of it all, right? How good because what people don't realize with chatbt is the better that you prompt it, right? The the the better it's going to give you back that information. But I love that you guys are touching it. you guys already at a high level. The VR is a high level. Um th those opportunities. You just mentioned how you had to be there for him to make sure he doesn't fall. It's always funny to see those videos of people that are not being monitored and they just run into walls and they're just running to a TV. I'm like, "Oh my god, no one there to stop them." I I I think I um in Florida, we have this Star Wars virtual reality. That's probably my first time ever doing VR. And it's so scary cuz I walked in and I had to take off my goggles. I'm like, "Where are we?" So they they harnessed you up and you're kind of just walking through this maze, but with the VR, it looks like you're walking and there's lava on the sides of it and how scary it is. And then you see, you know, you're holding this gun and you see this gun and you know, you're just getting the bad guys, but all I could think about is this lava like, is this real? And as I put up the VR, you're just literally just concrete with little tape and you're just following it harness. So I love the virtual reality that people are at that age are able to experience that. Like technology has changed so much. What are you hearing from some of these elderlys when they do this VR? Like, are they in shock? Are they like, "Oh my god." Like, what what is your feedback?

[15:27]  That is the amazing thing. They are so open and receptive to it. Um, as soon as you make it comfortable for them to try it, they're willing to try. And I have to say, some of our seniors are more techsavvy than I am. They just get in there, they can text, they're online, they will look things up. A lot of them like chat GBT and um have conversations with virtual buddies. So yeah, they're really very open to it much more than you might think.

[15:56]  I'm I'm very surprised on how people are using chat GPT. I was talking to a leader yesterday and she mentioned uh she's mid60s. She's just learning now chat GPT. Her daughter's teaching her, but she's like my daughter is also using it as a counselor. And I'm like what? Because when you speak to those that are in the field of you know counseling and mental health, there's like there's no way they can actually go together. But here you are have people actually know using it because they feel more comfortable having a quieter conversation to find out a little bit more about themselves and how they can actually help themselves. So I love that AI is while maybe financially is not there yet. So you guys can really expand, you're still using it in places that really matters as an experience for the elderly. So appreciate you guys for even thinking that far ahead. Not a lot of people are in the VR space. I've always asked when I hear hospice because of you. I say, "Do you guys do VR?"

[16:42]  And not a lot of people are doing it.

[16:44]  Yeah. Well, we're kind of innovative over here. We're small and sometimes that helps create innovation, right, when you have challenges. So,

[16:52]  yeah.

[16:53]  What's the patient goal? Uh what's a patient goal that completely surprised you like but made total sense once you heard it? I know we I know we talked about the the bear story. Is there another one? Um, well, yeah, I love that bear story, but um, there was a gentleman,

[17:09]  you know. Share that bear story because it was only a private conversation between me and you. Those would love to hear the bear story. Tell the bear story. We mentioned it a couple times.

[17:15]  Well, this was um, when I first went to Wisconsin and I was helping with an admission team. I went out to help um, a gentleman uh, come on board to hospice. He was in a lot of pain. He was laying on a couch and he had his three sons behind him. This is a long time ago. Um he had his three sons behind him and they were all saying no morphine, no morphine. And I'm thinking, oh no, you know, everyone reacts that way. They think that we're just going to kill you with morphine. And really in hospice, we don't want to do that. We want you to enjoy every day that you're alive. We only get paid every day that you're alive. So if we can get you comfortable and living well, that's better for us, too. So um

[17:55]  we I just did a very good headtotoe assessment of this gentleman. And then I said to him, "Can you tell me what's going on with you?" And he's like, "What do you mean?" And I said, "Well, I can't tell. I just met you. I can't tell if you're actually dying right now. Do you think you're dying?" He's like, "Oh, I don't know." And I said, "Well, neither do I, but I do know this. You can't really live well in pain. You can't die well in pain. So, if you let us work with you to get rid of your pain, I think you're going to be okay, but here's what might happen. We can start you on a very lowd dose pump where you can push a button and control how much you get. We'll just put a very low dose there. You'll be in charge of that pain control, but um hopefully you'll sleep for a day or two and then you'll wake up and you'll want to do some things because you've been in pain for so long and we bring you down. You can get comfortable and start to live again. But you could also be closer to dying and we can get you comfortable so you could die peacefully. and if you you know I don't know which way it's going to go. I think you're going to be okay, but I just met you. So he's like, "Okay, I want the morphine. Give it to me." And his sons were like, "I can't believe it." You know, so I said, "All right, I'll stay with you until the morphine pump comes. Let's get you started." So then, um, we had all the other questions I was able to ask. If you could design your end of life, where do you want it to be? Who do you want there? And we did all of that. He had his whole service planned out. He had everything tucked in. So, he really thought about all of that. Um, then I said, "Okay, you did a really good job. So, what what's your goal?" And he said, "Well, I I have to think about it." And he sat back and then he said, "You know what? I want to shoot a bear." And I'm like, "Whoa, I'm from New York. I don't usually hear that request." So, you know, he's like, "Well, honey, you're in Wisconsin now and we hunt." So, I was like, "Okay, I'm going to put this right in your chart. I'm going to put shoot a bear in your chart. That's your goal." and let's see how we do. So, we'll get you comfortable and see how that goes. So, um I did get the pump started and I handed him off to his wonderful team and a few days later, like 5 days later, I asked the team, "Hey, can I go back and see this bear guy?" Because I just want to I never had anybody say that. I just want to see how he's doing. And they said, "Sure." It was helpful. So, I um went back. He was up. He was dressed. He had his little cassette with his morphine that he was carrying around. And um I looked at it. I said, "You look great." And he's like, "I feel great. I feel so good." And I said, "You know, we could probably, you're not on a lot. We could probably take your pump off and give you a pill one in the morning and one at night, long acting. So, you'll be able to shoot the bear." And he said, "No, you're not taking my pump away. I love my pump. I love my morphine and I can shoot a bear with this pump." Like, okay, I'll let the team know. So I did let the team know and then they began working with him and um what he did was he took his wife and one son and his son's wife and their children um for a long weekend each month for the next three months. So on the third month with the third son is when he sent me a picture of a bear which I ran into the team and said he shot his bear, he got his goal and they started teasing me like it's not big enough and I I didn't know anything. I'm like, I would shoot that bear and I don't know how to shoot a bear. But um he really did reach his goal and um and that's what hospice is all about. He had three months and had a special weekend with each one of his sons that really appreciated it. So that's kind of what we're doing. He had everything tucked in. He never went to a hospital again. He had his pain managed really well and he had a really good end of life. So that's what I think you know if we can share that story with people I think it will help them be less afraid.

[21:44]  I always share that story since start such a good story. No for sure believe me it is being shared. Um and and why is involving the family so important as well especially caring for that patient because you mentioned it all the time right like it's not just about that individual but about their families as well that have to go through this experience. Why is involving them so important?

[22:04]  For many reasons. Well, as a culture in America, we used to do that all the time. It's really been like in the last 50, 60 years that it's really shifted to a medical model and people go into hospitals. When you think about it and you look back, families came together or communities if you didn't have family um and helped each other get through that end of life experience. They were there for the birth. They would help when someone was having a baby and then they would come together when somebody was leaving this realm. So we've kind of lost that and made it very mod medical. And I think that it's really important for families to get that support to feel comfortable. They need that education too. Like what does death look like? I grew up in a big Irish family. So I had lots of great aunts and uncles and then aunts and uncles. And we were all engaged in caring for our seniors as they were coming to end of life. And a lot of us have lost that. I don't know if you've lost that in your family, but we're more spread out and distant. Um, so if you engage your community or your immediate family, your outcome is going to be better as an individual. And then also for the people that help the um that love you, they they will grieve easier because they know that they have helped you. And studies have shown that when they've participated in helping someone else, it makes them feel better. I was impressed. I think I mentioned to you I travel when I travel I try and visit hospices. There was a hospice in Vispod in Germany for children. Never wanted to go there and it and that also changed my life where I started doing pediatric hospice for many years too.

[23:41]  But um in that pediatric hospice the families when they've lost a child they do do go to group support but then they quickly come back and help the next family. I could not believe it. I was so impressed with how they wanted to share how to do that well with the next family that was going through the heartbreak they were going through. And I came back thinking we're doing that here in America and we're not so much. We're getting better at it for pediatric care, but we're not doing it as well as what I I witness there for a program. So, I can see like even the benefit whether you're young or old, just pulling in your neighbors and your community, it helps everybody. It adds to who we are as a person. It helps develop our character and core as good people, I think. Anyway, so that's that's why I think it's important. I love that. And and you continue to mention like the almost the system that's been created, you know, all these years. What actually needs to break in the American healthcare um system for the end of life to actually feel human again?

[24:48]  Wow.

[24:48]  You could cut something. What would that actually look like? I I think that we would have to do a an overhaul completely of our health care system because we pay physicians for illness. They they're reimbursed. It's not their fault. They get paid for illness. So, if we could have a wellness program and physicians are paid maybe for populations um to keep people well, that might help change that trajectory. Um, but as long as you're going to get reimbursed and hospitals, too for illness, you know, that that's the incentive. Get someone into the hospital and take care of them. It's it's just how we're built. So, I would love to see that.

[25:33]  And it's expensive. Listen, anytime you go to the hospital for anything, like any that's what scares people to not want to go and get better is because they don't want the bills. They don't want their families to be left with these bills. Like, so I I hear you. I hear where you're at on that. And people's mindsets all feel the same. Um, you know, no one ever wants to leave their loved ones with some huge bill to take care of because that's usually what happens. The bill just continues to pass on to the to the kids, right? You're going to have to take care of these bills or whatnot. So, um, yeah, I I I definitely hear where you're going with that and I hope that one day, you know, with all this new technology and now AI being a thing, maybe it helps out. We can save some money so they don't have to charge so much money uh, and make it a better experience. And so I think that's another thing is just the experience in general hasn't hasn't been there either. Um so I think there's hopefully some things hopefully some things that would actually help the situation of hospice during the pandemic. Were you in the hospice space as well during

[26:30]  No, I actually I had taken a break and that was pretty funny because that's when I was starting to write um and I was working in a I got hired to um revise clinical practices for a company that did assisted living. They had about 3,000 seniors in six states and they asked me to just rewrite their protocols and help them do a better job at providing support in assisted living. And two weeks after I started, COVID hit and they came back like, whoa, we can't let these people die. This is our business. If they die, we're out of business. I thought, "Oh my gosh." So, a lot of the uh New York City trauma nursing and FEMA training kicked in. And that company actually did an excellent job in um advocating for testing for assisted living in Illinois and in other states. And we started, we were the first ones really to get um the COVID testing done. We worked with um Abbott and we worked with LabCore to get as much testing done as possible. And we ended up doing a really good job. In the two-year period I was there, we only lost 64 people to COVID and we never really closed our doors. But I will tell you that the teams were exhausted and everybody was happy when things were winding down and it was easier to do self- testing and um our seniors really they were terrific. They they were open to the vaccinations at the time. We never forced anyone to do that either staff or um residents and they it was very high compliance. So, we did pretty well, but I felt like I was in a war zone when I first um got there.

[28:06]  Yeah. No, I can imagine those were some tough times. Um anyone that was in that field and so many people left from that field because of just the overwhelmness and and really doing the things. That's why I think AI is pretty cool and I know I go back to it, but I believe that now there's things in place where you get to do more of what you love and less of the things you don't like. all the admin, all the note-taking, all these different things, and we can actually take that away and allow the people that went to school for all these years to really do what they love, which is to help people to, you know, to bring them back to health. And I I think sometimes that does get swept under the rug because we got so many other things that need to be marked up so we can get paid and, you know, all these different things as as you mentioned.

[28:47]  Absolutely.

[28:48]  So, even for nurses, that's probably um nationally number one complaint is the amount of charting that they have to do. So we we do use tablets and they can go in and use a microphone and just voice speak the note which is such a huge help that I had one nurse say I just cannot believe how much easier this is. Thank you for doing it and I didn't do it but we give them

[29:11]  it makes a difference though right it truly does make a difference. how when we talk about the uh the end of life, how can we actually get our um our families to start supporting us through this without actually saying the wrong thing? Because I think families want to help, but they're also afraid of saying the wrong thing.

[29:26]  You know, I think that's where America's culture has changed so much about death and dying. We're so much focused on life and living forever. Um, I think the more volunteers probably have um the greatest impact. When volunteers become involved in a hospice program, and it's actually required by Medicare, 5% of the care is to be provided by volunteers. When communities come together and provide those services, it really helps people to bring that home. So, I know um even for us in this community here in Arizona, we've grown our volunteer program. We now have like college kids that want to come and help. They don't really want to see people dying, but they'll help deliver supplies. Whoops, sorry. Um, so they'll do things like that and or maybe they'll make cards or write letters or go read to somebody or do a tea party with somebody that wants a tea party. So just getting engaged on the outside of it helps to normalize that we're going to die one day. We've had some patients ask for their volunteer to be with them at the end of life. They didn't want anyone else but that special volunteer. So, I think that helps just raise the bar and the quality of life in America when we all jump in and help our neighbor. It doesn't have to be huge. It could be small. Um, you don't have to know the exact words. When you do know someone is dying, not talking about it is harder.

[30:53]  You know, if you can find the way.

[30:55]  Go ahead. You actually made a comment the last time that we spoke and it was, "You'll never regret a conversation you had. You'll only regret the ones you did it."

[31:03]  Yeah.

[31:03]  Right.

[31:04]  Kind of to what you just mentioned right there. So, I love that. Well, it's time for the blind question. Are you ready?

[31:09]  We're wrapping it up. Okay.

[31:10]  Almost 30 minutes up. 30 minutes. I told you it was going to go quick.

[31:14]  Okay.

[31:14]  So, if your final days were tomorrow, what would your answer be to what would bring you joy?

[31:21]  Wow, that's so funny. You know, that's my favorite question. For me, um, spending time with my family in a fun place. I would want to gather everybody together and go somewhere fun and beautiful and just enjoy spending time with them. Great food, great wine, great music, and just spend time with

[31:41]  Love it all.

[31:42]  Yeah.

[31:42]  You I I this would probably be on your list to do one day, but I went glamping. You talk about just a good place. You ever been glamping?

[31:50]  A little bit, but not anything not any spectacular place. Where did you go? Oh man, Disney. Of course it's Disney, right? Come on. So Disney had these beautiful like tiny homes, full kitchen. The bedroom had a I think a queen-siz bed. It had a um bunk bed in that room as well. Um and in the living room, the couch pulls down into a bed. You just a line of them. And then you can do fishing there. You can ride horses. You can do all these different things. And I had Wi-Fi. Like your signal never went out. You didn't even need Wi-Fi. The signal never went out. And I'm like, "Wow, I never been camping in general." So, this was my first interaction of this. I'm like, "I can do this often." And people laughed. They're like, "Man, you didn't go camping. You went glamping." So, now I know that that's what I did. And they give you a golf Well, you have to pay for the golf cart. So, you're riding around the golf cart. And it's just it's just a cool time. But like you mentioned with some great wine. We're grilling burgers out there. The kids are on this splash pad. Um, so if you ever get to experience glamping at Disney, you got to And I heard it's better cheaper during the weekdays. So,

[32:49]  Okay, good to know. Um, so listen, we have to start wrapping it up, but what is your blind question, Kelly, for the next leader we have here on the heart and hustle?

[32:58]  I would ask them the same question. I think it's a great question and I think we have to ask that more often in our country. If you were just going to be here for a few days, what would be really important? What would give you joy?

[33:09]  Okay, I'll take that one right back to the next leader. So before we head off though, where can people find you? Where can they connect with you? The organization, give the websites, give your LinkedIn if you are on LinkedIn, so people can actually go. Yeah, I'm definitely on LinkedIn and we're here in um Gilbert, Arizona. Um do do you want a phone number or it's like I don't know.

[33:29]  Sure. Whatever whatever people may be watching and they want to reach out.

[33:33]  Okay.

[33:33]  Whatever you like to give us.

[33:34]  All right. Our office phone number is 480284600 and um you can always reach me at um kfisheradvisare.com.

[33:46]  Are you on LinkedIn as well?

[33:47]  I am on LinkedIn. Yes. Is Irene Kelly Fisher? My My first name is Irene. It's a long story.

[33:54]  I would have never known that. I would have never known that. You don't like Irene. I'm guessing you just dropped it.

[33:58]  Well, I was a tomboy growing up, so definitely stuck. I have two sisters also that are known as Kelly. So, we were the Kelly girls. But, um, yeah. So, it's Irene, Kelly Fisher on LinkedIn. Would love to hear from you.

[34:09]  I have u my daughter's name is Noah Rose. Noah, first name, middle name Rose, but it's like flow. So, every time I call her, it's like no Rose. And um you know I don't know what's going to stick with her. You know is she going to go to school? Is she going to keep Noah Rose? Is it just Noah? Was it just Rose? You just never know. I never had a middle name. Sometimes I wish I did though cuz Ephra is not a name that you hear often. So I and everyone would always butcher it. So it's like why do I even have this name but I would name after um my father. Unfortunately I say cuz you know he wasn't really my life but um I didn't do it to my son. I made sure he had his own name you know. So, but still carrying that legacy of what Lozadas actually look like and live like. So, I appreciate it. Kelly, you have been completely phenomenal. Thank you so much for your time. Your beautiful smile. You've been smiling since we started. Thank you so much.

[34:56]  Guys, this if you guys are not talking about death, you should be. It's a conversation that we're all having to have. We're all going to see the end of life. What does it actually look like? Think about those things that actually bring you joy. Just as I mentioned to Kelly and Kelly's also mentioning to all you guys. So, if you guys want to know what more of what Kelly is doing, make sure you guys do follow her on LinkedIn. Make sure you guys go check them out. I'm Ephrain. This is Kelly. We'll catch you guys on the next episode.

[35:19]  Thank you. Bye bye.