Failed 4 Times: Rachel Watson's Path to VP at Interactive Kids

[0:01]  [music] Welcome back to the episode here on the Heart Hustle podcast. Sorry, I almost butchered our own title of the podcast. Uh Rachel, thank you so much for joining us.

[0:24]  I am so happy to be here. Thank you so much. It's really great to meet you. I I mean see each other again. Actually, we see each other for the second time. It's been a while though, Rachel. That's how long it's been that you think you meet me for the first time. [laughter]

[0:38]  No, you did leave an impression. I promise.

[0:41]  All right, that's what I like to hear. But let's get straight into it. You You've I love that we're not going to start with success. We're starting off with a little bit of failure. I failed the BCBA exam four times while you were juggling marriage and three young kids. But those three failures didn't define you. you say they actually redirected you into your leadership into autism services. Could we talk about that?

[1:01]  Absolutely. Um and thanks for starting with my failure because we're going to end [laughter] end this interview on top. Right. So, we'll just get this out of the way.

[1:11]  Exactly.

[1:12]  So, I did fail the BCBA exam four times. Um this was about tw 11 and 12 years ago. So back then, way back then, you were only able to take this exam two or three times a year. It was a much longer process than it is today. Today, you can take it every every month if you choose to. And uh the last time I took it, I missed it by five points. It was a a ton of work on me emotionally, physically. Um I had three children at the time. I mean, I still have three children, but at the time they were two, seven, and 10, and they were uh it was just a lot. I was working full-time. I was studying for the exam. And my marriage wasn't the greatest either. And there were times, I remember every Sunday night, I was taking a class uh to help me, you know, learn how to to help me study for the exam. And I would go in at 7:00 at night on a Sunday night, and the kids would be banging on the door. And it was the only time I really asked, you know, for that time alone. And, you know, my my ex-husband at the time just wasn't very supportive of it. So, after that, I um I was working for a company called Interactive Kids, which I'm still here, and they were extremely [snorts] supportive of of me and that. And I found other things there. At the time, this was a growing company. Um, back then we probably only had maybe 30 or 40 employees. Today we have 180, which was the number I heard on Friday. Uh, so it's it's really it's really wonderful. Um, but at the time, uh, there was a lot more administrative need that was popping up and I remember one of them was the need to help with staffing and I just said, "Can I help with that?" and just, you know, week after week, month after month, I would just add more to my uh job that had to do with staffing. Um myself and two of my co-workers, Diana and Ashley, we kind of started the HR department, which is kind of funny to say. Um how did you have a company without an HR uh department? But I assure you, most companies do not start with an HR department.

[3:25]  That is true.

[3:25]  And and we started that. Um, yeah.

[3:29]  I mean, in the nonprofit world, especially me being in the nonprofit world, there is no HR department. Like you, you're everything actually. You are your marketing, your HR, your payroll. You you're just playing every single ad you can kind of take off. Um,

[3:40]  you are everything. And the owners of the company, you know, were everything up until that point. And it just got too much and we and we just solid. Um, but the staffing, I really was drawn to that because it was like putting a big puzzle together and it was non-stop and it was fun and it was exciting and it put me in contact with all of the consultants that we had across the company and as well as the families because I got to interface with them as well. So, while I became kind of less clinical, more administrative, um, I did quickly find that that was that was the right thing for me. I take let's take us back to this failing. Uh I I love failing in life. Um at the in the moment it could be very challenging. Uh you probably were thinking maybe I'm not cut out for this. Maybe this is not for me. Right. The imposter syndrome is probably very loud at that time. But what do you feel it really built within you?

[4:34]  I am so glad that I failed that exam four times because I fell in love with this administrative world. I wouldn't have um learned all of I wouldn't have become more of a self um person who's more self-taught because it just kind of pushed me to to look into leadership and I found there was like a whole other world um with with that it really it closed one door but it opened like 18 more doors and I I I love the families that we work with and I love the the population um of the the autistic individuals that we work with. But I really do love to um to to help our employees, help them become their their best selves. Uh yes, at the time failing, I was so I was devastated. I was so upset. And there are definitely times that I still look back and think, man, I should have done that. I should have just tried one more time. What if it was just that one more time? What if there were three more questions that I would have known the answer to? And today when I talk to other consultants who are struggling with passing this exam, I do encourage them to keep going. Um not necessarily because I have any regrets, but just that um they they they've worked so hard and I just see that in them, you know, just kind of like a don't give up mentality. You can't you can't give up. Um so many times that's just what creates success. It is failure and is never giving up. So many times people just quit too early and you've seen those memes all the time where he's going going and and just one more strike he would have got there and it's it you just realize, hey, I'm gonna keep going. I'mma get this. It's not going to defeat me. I'm going to defeat it even though there was some some challenges. But I love that you found this space. You've been part of now interactive kids as as it grew as you mentioned from startup to this just major provider. Could we talk about what is Interactive Kids? What are the programs? What are the services? How do you help your community?

[6:31]  Sure. Interactive Kids has been around for 20 years. Actually, this month we're having our 20th year bash in December, which we're really excited about.

[6:39]  Happy 20th.

[6:40]  Yes. Yes. We're super thrilled. Um, so Interactive Kids, we're located in uh South Jersey. We have offices here in Cherry Hill, Marlton, Lynwood, and Summers Point, New Jersey. And we are an ABA provider. So, we provide uh services to individuals who are diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder. In addition to that, we also uh work with um individuals who uh receive counseling services. We have some incredible uh LCSSWs providing uh counseling. We work with a lot of individuals with challenging behaviors. There is a core group of us who worked together actually at an out ofd district school in this area and we we did um find ourselves in a lot of crisis situations and we also still see that those you know children those individuals still need a lot of support. So we um said sure we can do that too and we opened a behavior stabilization um program.

[7:42]  I love that. What was the proudest mo milestone that you've had and why being part of this organization?

[7:48]  The proudest milestone.

[7:53]  I know. I know it's been some time, but there has to be that one that just really stands out like I can't believe that we did this.

[7:58]  It just happened. Um, so we, um, two of my co-workers, Megan, who's one of the owners of the company, and Logan, um, we, uh, started a networking group and it's called Sparkle, and it's our newest adventure. And okay,

[8:14]  Sparkle is it's a networking group for special needs providers. I was searching for one um, being in the marketing field, I wanted to see what was out there. I've visited a few networking groups and they're wonderful, but they're more geared towards uh real estate agents or attorneys or, you know, people in in banking and that's wonderful, but I found myself uh not really connecting with them. And what we do here at Interactive Kids is we always say, well, the owners have always said the sky's is the limit. So, I say the same thing, the sky's is the limit and if you uh can't if you don't find what you want, you you create it for yourself. So, we created this networking group called Sparkle. We had our very first luncheon on Friday. I was terrified that no one would show up. You know, when you have you plan a birthday party for your child and you're like, I hope his friends show up. It was it was that feeling for for weeks. Um, and Megan, the owner of the company, said, Rachel, it doesn't matter if it's just us. So, I felt that support and that really really carried me through. And it ended up being 16 of us. There were four from our company from Interactive Kids and there so there were 12 other people that um that came and we had everybody introduce themselves and and talk about you know them and their career path and things like that. And these are people who do exactly what we do. So if you want to call them competitors that's fine. They that's who we're you know inviting into this that's who we want to be part of this group. And I'm sitting there and it was like the fourth person who started speaking. And I felt so excited and proud, more excited than any than any any time in a really long time about something that has, you know, to do with with work because people were talking about the vibe. They're like, "This is a really cool vibe in here." So to me, that meant that they felt welcome, which is what I wanted. they felt um that they were going to be able to be themselves, that they could feel the integrity in the room to be a little vulnerable. And if I'm not saying it needs to be like group counseling, you know, that's not what I'm saying about this group, but I really do want to create the space uh for people to feel like they can lean on each other and say, you know, hey, I'm I'm dealing with this insurance issue. Has anyone had this and had this issue and what have you guys done to to support it to to work through it? even if they are somebody who again is considered our competitor and I just was overwhelmed with happiness, enjoy and satisfaction. So I would actually say that my biggest milestone just came in the last week with that group.

[10:51]  This is really good that you say this and that you told me how you felt because I think from a leader perspective meeting you now for the second time that it's you. It's a you thing, right? It it's a the way that you carry yourself. it. There's not a mask on that when someone walks into a room and see how authentic you are, it allows someone to automatically just drop their guards. I love,

[11:12]  you know, like even though today, like even today, it's been a while since we've last spoke, but even today, the way you just smiled and just like, hey, you know, it's that and as leaders, we forget that is being authentically us that wins every single time. So, in your case, it's always going to win even though we are our worst critics. We think all these negative things. The imposter syndrome is yelling at us. Do you agree with this? That what I'm saying?

[11:36]  I was just feeling it five minutes before we started recording like, "Oh my gosh, what am I doing? I'm in the hot seat." Um, but I do and thank you for saying all of that. That was really kind of you. I love people. I love meeting new people. Um, there was something I saw, I don't know, it was like a clip on Facebook or something about so there's like a library in another country where you can go and you can meet other people and they will tell you their life story and I was like that's what I I want to go there.

[12:05]  I love it.

[12:07]  Um, but I I walk into places like Wawa and I I feel I'm very like I'm energized by other people. So I walk into a Wawa and I'm like, "Hi, hi everybody." And I'm just like saying hi [laughter] to everyone. And of course sometimes they get crazy looks, but I just feed off of each other.

[12:25]  Are you both are do you do both sides though? Like I am that I am the outgoing person that says hello to everybody. But there's times where I'm very like I'm just a guy.

[12:33]  I shut down every day. Every day at the end of the day I shut down and I am I'm quiet and I'm not like necessarily like full of thoughts or things like that. I just need to kind of shut it down. I guess I think of it as my battery ran out. And my social B my just like my battery kind of kind of you know ran out.

[12:55]  Yeah. Yeah.

[12:56]  That that's me. I It's bad because my wife was like, "I want you to talk to me the same way you talk to everybody else and motivate me the same way you talk to everybody else out there. By the time I get home, I've done spoken to so many different people, you know, and had to usually kind of like uplift people,

[13:11]  right? And it's that whole thing of pouring from an empty glass. I've done gave all of me out today.

[13:17]  No one poured back into me." So, leads me to my next question. You talked about going to Arizona on a hiking trip.

[13:25]  Is that to refuel? Is that to refill your cup? Is that is that what it is? You talked a little bit about hiking and meditation. Do you do those things to fill your cup?

[13:32]  I should do it more. Um, which is why my husband and I said, you know, we just have to make this trip happen. He, it was literally planned in one day over the summer. I can picture him coming down the stairs and saying, "Hey, Ra, what if we go to Arizona?" You know, the here in New Jersey, all the a lot of the schools are closed next week. It's called um NJA. Um he's like, "What if we go, you know, away that week in Arizona, I found this Airbnb." And I'm like, "Just hit yes. Just do yes. Just accept it." And he did. And it was so incredible that he just did that literally in one minute. And we are

[14:07]  I'll be in the area. You said you're in Jersey.

[14:09]  Mhm.

[14:11]  I'll be in the area. I'm actually going up to New York tomorrow to the Tribec Soho.

[14:17]  Okay. Tribeca Soho. Sure.

[14:19]  Uh Tik Tok. I've done a lot of Tik Tok. I don't know if you know that, but I'm big on Tik Tok. I have like 67,000 followers. I found my niche in wrestling and I've kind of built that community up. So, it's it's funny because you talk about community. I used to have to go live, Rachel, with only one person. Sometimes no one watches

[14:35]  and I had to keep that up. I'm two years in every Monday, every Friday. But just talking about showing up and no one's there and you just know that it's okay, you got to keep going. You got to keep showing up. Like that's going back to success, showing up when no one's even watching. So anyway, the Tik Tok uh reached out to me. They have a summit coming up in New York tomorrow and they invited me. So I'm like, cool.

[14:55]  See what happened. You just show up and don't give up.

[14:58]  You can't like Well, what else are you going to do? Um and you know, it starts with one follower, right? And now you're at 67,000. It's it doesn't just go to 67,000. Like it starts with one, two, three, and you know, it can only go up from there.

[15:11]  Yeah. Truly mind-blowing. But yeah, it's it's to everything that we've kind of mentioned is that mindset of never giving up. It is that time where um you have to just shut down. It is okay to shut down. It is okay to take that break because if not, you're not giving the way that you should, right? You don't want to give ever less than who you are. So, in order to just refill your body, find something. A lot of things I like to do is planting. We mentioned hiking, but I love plants. So, when I'm just in there, I'm losing myself into the soil and just, you know, I love that. Uh yesterday you talked about cleaning my my family and and went to SeaWorld yesterday and they said, "Do you want to come?" I said, "No, I'm going to clean." And even that was just almost therapeutic, right? You start to smell the good scents and your wife comes home and she's like, "Baby, it looks really good in here." And I'm like, "Yeah, that's what we need." Sometime when I feel in my mind, Rachel, that things are just seeming chaotic. I automatically go to my desk and start to just organize my desk because how is it that you want to be organized if your area is not organized? Your room, your office space, your, you know, all that matters so much when it comes to the mental, you know, and especially the line of the work that you do. It has to be because you're seeing so many different things. Um, and the autism services are really bursting with demand at this point. How do you plan for growth without losing that personalization families really depend on? I would say you it's one day at a time. Um you don't grow too quickly. Um the the owners of the company, Melissa and Megan, have really um stressed that personalization. They talk to families almost every single day. They're boots on the ground. They run programs. They work on the billing. They're still doing it very much so. And and they meet with staff individually. So everything really, you know, still is individualized. It's just kind of part of the culture here. Uh, and 20 years in, you know, that's just the way it is. There's no there's not much resistance to that, I would say.

[17:14]  Let's talk about culture. I think it's so important in in companies. The culture in a company allows people to stay or leave. How important is that to you?

[17:22]  Culture is is really everything. And we did learn that as a company. Um, in particular, we have um the departments in Lynwood and in Summers Point, um, they're run by two women, Chrissy and Aaron, and they have really worked so hard to develop their culture down there, and they just continue to make it a priority. And it's like every decision they make, uh, they're asking themselves and they're asking us, well, is this is how will the will this impact my culture positively or negatively? because if it's going to impact it negatively, I need to, you know, think about another way or really um decide if that is the way that I need to go.

[18:06]  I love that. And one of the things that you mentioned was empathy. We we talked about empathy last time. You said empathy sounds soft, but you treat you treat it more as a uh strategic avenue. How do you define empathy and leadership and how is it change decisions at interactive kids when you talk about just building you know

[18:25]  culture and all that?

[18:26]  So I think that some people interpret empathy as being soft. I certainly do not. Empathy is the key to life. I truly believe being empathic will will help you in every single situation that you face from the time you wake up to the time you go to sleep. This started for me when I was um a little girl. I can remember being in the car with my mom and uh a car whizzing by us, speeding down the highway and we would take I lived in um in Pennsylvania at the time and we took a lot of trips to see my grandmother who was in South Jersey and so we were in the car a lot and I would say what are they doing that you know that's not safe or or get kind of like angry about them you know speeding past us and my mom would say well maybe their child is in the hospital or maybe there's an emergency that they need to get to. And so she planted the seeds very very early about, you know, looking at things from another perspective, putting on somebody else's shoes.

[19:34]  And if you can do that in as many situations as possible, you will be less stressed and you will be able to come up with the solution to the issue and you'll just but you'll not judge people for that. I think that, you know, it's it's great to analyze and learn about other people and kind of try to figure out the why. I mean, I did study behavior analysis. I am about the why of the behavior, but when you add that that tone to it, that attitude, that judgment, it just can really drag you down and nothing positive can come out of it.

[20:09]  I love you said that. I have that fight all the time because I do see things like like that. I'm always trying to find the kid, especially when you talk about the car. Um, I'm in the car with my wife and she's she'll freak the hell out. She would just give her the most It'll give her the most anxiety, you know, especially if she's driving. Um, and I would say exactly that, like you don't know why that person is rushing. Could be they're late to work, you know, whatever the case may be. You talked about, you know, chase uh racing to get to the hospital. I think about when she gave birth, right? We we just need to get to the hospital. Like there's so many things that could ideally happen to somebody's life. You got a call, a devastating call that you got to that's just you got to get there. And um she always says, "You're just always too kind." I'm the person that likes to help people. If something's going on, altercation at a Walmart or Publix, and I get involved, she's like, "Can you stop that?" Like, you don't know what's going to happen. It's just us, right? And it is I think it is the seeds that were planted in us to allow us to see very differently. Um and and it allows me to live more peaceful because why would I ri myself up on something I can't control? I can control me. I can control my vehicle. So, hey, I'm going to back away from this guy. Let this guy go as fast as he can ahead of us. We'll just stay here, you know. So, definitely I love the way that you're thinking. And that also goes back to your leadership skills. H having that. And and you talked about building leaders as well um on your good leadership to see their potential sometimes before they do, which is huge. I think that happened to me. I was a 19-year-old general manager for Subway. And I I thank God that someone seen my leadership skills before I seen it. I didn't know that I was going to be a general manager for a sub shop, you know, and I did that for eight years, but someone seen something in me and now you're doing that same thing. What's that one tool or maybe conversation you use to kind of activate that for others? I one tool uh how can I name a couple because it's sort of start it's uh it's I feel like um it's well it's it's finding something that they're doing and and and recognizing it even if it seems small or even if it seems like kind of insignificant when you notice some something that somebody did and they went out of their way say I I noticed that you did that and that was really cool or um a after they um after like you observe them let's say giving feedback say that must have been really hard you did a wonderful job just like words of encouragement and kind of opening up that relationship I think that's very important I'm really I'm built on relationships um the company we operate we're very relationship built um so so that can be extremely helpful but getting to know people saying you know what are your hopes dreams goals aspirations um but it's also remembering that Not everybody is, you know, where where they are. Let me let me backtrack. You have to meet people where they are within reason because some people are very very content, you know, just being you who they are. And if you're giving them other ideas and suggestions and they're really resistant to it, maybe it's not because they're lazy or because whatever you know you you're that what that judgmental side of your brain might be thinking. Maybe they They don't want to excel. They don't want to move up. My son Kevin Jr. is He's uh about to turn 21 this weekend. But he is brilliant. He's that kid that doesn't have to study. He never had to study. He took his SATs, didn't sleep the night before, walked in without a calculator, and got like a 1370 just,

[23:44]  you know, just doing it.

[23:45]  Who else did?

[23:47]  So me was like, "Oh, oh, so you're going to become a surgeon? Like that's just like where you know what I thought. Well, what else do you do with that kind of brain? You go all the way and be you become a surgeon, right? Guess what? That is not what he sees for his future. He is no I don't even know if he's going to go beyond his bachelors. So, which is fine, which is fine for him, but that's not exactly easy, you know, for me to kind of meet him where he is. But it's not just for him. It's for everybody. Like I I I just see I that sky's the limit, you know, uh thinking that we have here. I see that for everybody.

[24:26]  I love how similar we are because it it bothers me when I see potential in someone and they don't see it in themselves. And I tell you what happened to me and I had to learn this I would say the hard way. So I knew this guy in real estate, a huge guy um for what he does, really top seller year after year after year and he let me use his box truck all the time. So you know, great. And then I had a partner at the time. It was my brother-in-law. And I seen so much good in my brother-in-law. Sometimes he just wasn't doing the things he should have been doing. So I remember um it got to the point where we just stopped working with each other. You know, it it blew up. And I went back to this real estate guy and I tell him the situation and how mad I was. And he says, "I got a question for you." And I'm like, "Yeah." He says, "Did he ask for your help?" And I'm like, "No, he didn't ask me." And he's like, "Okay, well, you're the dummy because you're the one that continued to help him even after he didn't [laughter] ask." And I'm like, "I get right." You know, and it is true. You know, you can't get mad when you're trying to help somebody and they don't want to be helped.

[25:20]  Um, I miss it. I Where do you put

[25:24]  developing people on your list of things that you love to do? I actually love to do it. Sometimes I felt like I was actually babysitting adults, but there was times where I really love to see how I was able to develop somebody to be their own general manager. And even now, 10 years later, have this conversation on, hey man, thank you so much for for seeing something in me. Where do you rank that on the things that you love to do at uh at your

[25:45]  Definitely at at the top. Um I do again love people. I'm drawn to them. I want to know about them. So I'm kind of naturally like sort of able to talk to them about uh what their you know aspirations are and and how can they get it and when they pose uh some barriers to that you know saying well you know well what about this what about this? Um and just trying to do that in a in a respectful way. their um because maybe they didn't have anyone to say that to them. Maybe no one has ever said that or recognized that in them and they kind of walk away feeling, oh, maybe I can do something, you know, a a little bit different.

[26:24]  Yeah. Let's talk about the the family that you you guys serve. You say families with autism often feel boxed in.

[26:31]  What what did you see in your region that compelled you to actually build community hubs instead of just clinical programs? So, um, New Jersey has a very high rate of autism and we recognize that and we honor that. Um, so we need to work really hard to make sure that everybody is has access to the services that they need. There are a lot of other ABA agencies, you know, popping up in the area. And again, um, we we we are not a very competitive company because really we're all if we're all here to serve the client, then the the more the marrier. As long as other providers are doing the right thing and doing right by the families, we we welcome them. We even want to work alongside of them, you know, with our networking group that we started. Um, so but it's really looking at the families as a whole and it's not just the client and it it's it's the parents, it's the siblings. Um, and we try very very hard to to work with them and again pulling on that empathy to see it from their perspective when we're working with families who let's say they have um an idea for a goal which would could be um playing having game night, Friday night game night. that's what they want for their family. But we're saying, but maybe us from like a clinical perspective is like, "Oh, you know what? I really think you should work on um more communication or putting, you know, making um how teaching them how to say sentences, full sentences instead of just like a few words." Um but it's seeing the families where they are. And that game night is super important to them and is going to lead to so many more positive things than maybe if we just taught them how to say um increase their communication or it, you know, from communicating their wants and needs to like full sentences.

[28:26]  If the Heart and Hustle podcast has ever sparked any idea or made you think differently, do us a favor. Make sure to guys share this, post it on LinkedIn, or even text that nonprofit friend that you just have. Whatever works, this is what keeps the conversation going and allows us to just grow this community together. Seriously, we appreciate you.

[28:49]  Do you think it also helps uh because some siblings usually feel like the invisible one? Do you think it also helps having those moments where we can integrate those children that may don't need that additional assistance? I think that's what happens a lot of times that siblings kind of get feeling left out. Um they feel they would say the black sheep. They would say all these different things that I've heard before. Where do you feel that comes in and and what does that conversation should look like and why does it matter for the family system?

[29:14]  I'm so glad that you asked that because oftentimes siblings are overlooked or pushed to the side and really siblings are the ones that are going to be there for them. So how is that going to impact the family? they are the family once the the parents unfortunately pass because they're going to be the ones who are there um having to make decisions for them or even you know uh having them in their care. So they are extremely extremely important and I've talked with many many siblings about um you know some want to be in the field some are on their way to get their BCBA and some are doing whatever the exact opposite of a of this career is. Um, but a as a whole, we definitely need to pay more attention to the siblings.

[30:01]  And if you can advise any community to build one first practice for autism families, what would that be? If I could advise any family to

[30:10]  to build one first practice for autism families.

[30:14]  Um well being another ABA provider would be wonderful but I would say um having more support groups kind of like dropin support groups for even parents and for siblings I think would be really really impactful. And again um just parenting in general it can be so isolating as much as we are connected on social media we're still you know very much in these little you know silos. So if we open our doors or places open their doors and have a place where parents or siblings can just learn from each other and be in the same room together would be super helpful. We have a group of parents in um out of the Lynwood office um and they um their children are homeschooled and they also receive services at Interactive Kids and they have decided to create their own parent group and you know we're helping support them but this is them all on their own and we couldn't be more happy with that.

[31:18]  That's cool. I actually met a leader a couple of weeks ago that she did that. She realized that even though she was already in the space, she's like, "We need to build the community aspect of it." So she one once a month she has like what called wine night for moms and she has all her, you know, employees take care of the kids while the moms just kind of have a little cup of wine and have these conversations and because sometimes you do feel left a lot, you know, alone and left out. My sister, she actually has two kids with autism and um they're like nine months apart, believe it or not. It's very hard.

[31:51]  How old are they?

[31:51]  And you can seven and eight.

[31:54]  Tough. That's tough. Ages can be really tough.

[31:58]  Not talking, you know. Um, so that that was they just started walking if anything. So it was it was a lot. And even as a family, while we can say that we understand and we want to be there for you, it is still tough from when you as a mom having to deal with this and you feel that no one understands. No one's going to get this because we didn't see that in our families. So I when she told me she'd build this community, I'm like, "Wow, how cool is that?" Because so many people get left out and feel like they're doing this alone. And it's not. There's so many resources, which is why I love to have these conversations. so many organizations that are out there that want to help these moms, these fathers that feel that they're in it alone cuz it truly not real. There's so many kids that are dealing with this, so many parents that are dealing with this now. Is that what you're referring to when we talk about um putting families together to just kind of educate themselves and feel at ease that they're not doing this?

[32:51]  Absolutely. And it also So, uh your sister has two kids, ages seven and eight. Well, things change, you know, things are going to things are different. So, as they get older, they're also going to move into um what what we in the field call as the cliff. So, once a stu a child turns 21, services just completely fall off. And so things so her so your support systems are going to need to change. So, it's really even more important to learn how to lean on other parents and, you know, learn from them, learn from their mistakes, and learn from their successes.

[33:30]  Yeah, definitely a tough situation. And I try to do the best I can. You know, again, I may not have understand it fully, but understanding that when I call her, you can just see, you could just feel it. you just need to to to be there for her and to, you know, to just

[33:45]  you're doing a great job and just to just try to be there for her. Um, a lot of times people say, "Well, I don't want to, you know, bring it up because I don't want to remind them." Well, guess what? They're already thinking about it. I mean, it's on our it's on their minds, you know, 24/7, like am I doing the right thing for them? Should I be doing something different? There's a lot of parents also, you know, in um with, you know, children in um public school system and they're not sure, you know, if they're getting all of the services that they need. So, it's just really about encouraging them to ask the questions and to and to find out to kind of put yourself out there, which is very very scary to ask the question. If you're a parent and you're like, "Okay, things are going okay. I don't want to rock the boat." I can definitely understand why you wouldn't want to rock the boat, but asking questions shouldn't mean you rock the boat. It just means that you're trying to like learn about other options that are there for your child.

[34:39]  Because if you don't ask, you would never know.

[34:40]  That's right.

[34:42]  Yeah. Burnout, weight list, understaffing. What's one change you believe the industry must make in the next 12 to 24 months? I believe we should educate our high school students on the field of ABA and working with this community. That's really where I think that um we we should go and we should spend our time and and resources. Right now there are 77,000ish BCBAs which do the math is not enough for the number of individuals who require services from a BCBA. we need to make some changes. We need to get out there. We need to teach our youth about this this field that they could um enjoy and thrive. Uh from a high school degree, they can get their RBT certification. As a bachelor's level, you could get your BCAABA and then as a master's level, you can get your BCBA. I do think that we need to be educating uh our high school youth more. very interesting that we don't do that enough because at least when I went to school which is you know aging myself here 20 years ago I was graduated and um I remember best buddies you know and of course you knew as a young kid that there was something different about them but we never got educated right we just remember best buddies we remember that they had their own little space we used to see them understand I could still tell you what the logo looks like but we never understood and I think it's like how were we not being educated But we were seeing them every single day

[36:17]  and it that happened in pockets. So I did not grow up with best buddies. I mean I know you know other people have and and it's not because I'm even older than you. It's because of you know I went to I I mean ironically I went to Catholic school. So that was not something ironically that you know we were you know exposed to.

[36:38]  So what can we do? I think as as parents or aunts and uncles or anybody who has any kind of interaction with a neurotypical child can teach them about being a nice person and about being a good person and about including others in what they're doing. And you don't have to force it down your throat their throat, you know, and and say, "You better sit with that kid at lunch who's sitting alone." It doesn't have to be like that. It can be uh sprinkled throughout the car rides here and there like, "Hey, you know, anyone you notice at your school who kind of ever sits alone at lunch? Well, yeah, there's this one kid, Johnny. Oh, why do you think he sits alone?" and just like even with a little per even with a 5-year-old, you can have these conversations

[37:27]  and that really will make a difference because I I also think that we need to educate, you know, everybody about me being more inclusive because

[37:37]  the the world of autistic individuals bend a lot to fit into our norms and I think we need to do more bending. my four-year-old daughter. We So, my sister has um the two sister kids, but she also has a 16-year-old. 16-year-old been very helpful, you know, throughout the journey for her. But I remember my my daughter asking me, "Dad, why is she on the floor like that, you know, cuz this girl's older than her, bigger than her, and my um niece overheard that?" And her answer, which was so good because in that moment, I thought to myself, "How do I answer this question?" And my daughter uh my niece says, "We're all different and we just got to love each other for who we are. We're all going to look different and be different and walk different and speak different." This is a 16-year-old girl that said this.

[38:30]  I was I'm a 35year-old man and I had to really think about how do I enter this because I was never put in that predicament. This is a 16-year-old girl. So when we tell that we can't educate them, we're educating now a fouryear-old that to this day remembers that her you she tells me all the time, "Yeah, my my cousin is very different, you know, like she's going to learn how to speak and just very positive on what that actually looks like." So yes, we could definitely start early, not just at the high school levels, but even talking to our young kids because they get it. They're very smart, very understanding individuals. Um, the conversation just needs to be had more. I don't think that we have this conversation enough, which is Rachel, why I thank you so much for just being yourself authentically today and have this conversation because I think a lot of people can definitely take away from it. As we wrap it up though, Rachel, because we got to go, you got things to do, Rachel. Um,

[39:16]  what what what what is your socials? Where could people find you, the organization, and know more about what you guys are doing?

[39:21]  We're on LinkedIn, Interactive Kids, uh, Facebook, and Instagram, and then we have a website, www.inactivekids.com. All right, I'll leave it as a blind question because I got

[39:33]  Oh my gosh, I can't believe the blind question. [laughter]

[39:37]  You speak openly about failing multiple times. We're going to kind of go back to that. What's one belief you held about leadership or yourself that you completely reversed though? And how has that reversal changed how you lead now? So, see, we're going to talk about that failure, but how it really leads you to be back up top.

[39:53]  All right. What is the actual question? [laughter] So since we talked about failing multiple times, what's that one belief in leadership

[40:02]  or yourself that completely reversed as you got into this space? You realize, wait, I thought this, but it actually wasn't that.

[40:08]  How has that reversal or changed how you lead?

[40:10]  I thought that as to be a leader, you really had to kind of keep things separate from uh who you who you work with. Like your boundaries really had to be like super duper high. Um that's what I thought envisioned you know like the boss did like the boss has their own kind of thing like they don't really interact with you know other other other people uh that was that changed probably no I would say it changed a lot at my uh you know other job working in the school but you can you can do both you can be a strong leader and set those boundaries and have those hard discussions with somebody and you can also you talk about what's going on with their families. Um, you know, get invited to their kids' birthday parties, go to happy hour with them. You absolutely can do both, but you have to respect both. You have to respect the relationship that you have and and work towards it. The one that you have at work and then the one that you have, you know, out outside of work and cultivate both and just keep both in check.

[41:17]  I want you to know that it sounds very easy when you say it, but let's be honest. We've found leaders that are in spaces that are not that, right? And it goes back to just authentically yourself. I used to, Rachel, I used to hire my friends when I used to be at I would hire my friends. I would write them up and I lived with those friends and I would go back home like nothing ever happened and they would be mad and I'm like, "Hey, you decided to act up at work. I had to do what I had to do as a boss, but hey, you want to go have this drink tonight?" Like, it's simple as that. You had a respect. There's a place to play and have fun and there's a place to be serious and have business.

[41:51]  I understood the both of them. If you didn't understand the both of them, that is definitely on you both. This is where we're at. So yeah, it's just some leaders don't have that. Some leaders think cuz I'm here, I don't talk to people. I don't talk to the janitor the same way that I'll talk to my COO. And it it's actually it sucks because you'll lose people in that way. So

[42:07]  Rachel, we thank you so much. We can do this definitely again and again and again. I know every single time it would be just as amazing as we were today. If you guys want to make sure that you guys continue to follow what Rachel is doing and the growth and the scaling that's happening in the Jersey area, make sure you guys connect with them on social or go directly to the website. We thank you so much for the authentic conversation and being an amazing leader, Rachel, and being into this space the way that you have um even when things didn't look like it would be here, right? Like that's what God does and thank God that you didn't give up. My name is Ery. This is Rachel. We'll catch you on the next one. Lers.