From Med School Dropout to Leading a 200+ Person Team

[0:00]  what does it truly mean to be happy and are you brave enough to have those tough conversations one time to put yourself on the path to have a fulfilling life today I sit down with Aussie an amazing CEO and an amazing leader today we're going to be talking about making tough decisions overcoming challenges the pressure that we put on ourselves to fulfill other people's dreams and so much more today's conversation is packed full of life lessons making tough decisions so we can put oursel in a situation for happiness in the future and foundations that we can build upon we're going to learn all about how Aussie built ibh an amazing organization that's meeting the needs of our community serving families and uplifting others we're going to hear about how she

[0:46]  built her team from just one person to a team that is now thriving in today's episode we dive deep into the heart and hustle of this amazing leader let's get after it there was no sleep you know even during sleep I was dreaming about it I was dreaming about work and what's going to what I'm going to do the next day so I started ibh in May of 2013 we didn't have an office at the time so I interviewed this young lady uh by the name of Heather Bentley she was uh she had just obtained her bachelor's degree had no experience in ABA or in the field of mental health or a ISM but she came on board you know we we slowly grew um we're now over 200 um

[1:39]  staff um Heather Bley is our executive director of Clinical Services so she grew with me it's amazing uh over 700 clients um it's it's just beautiful you know uh to see how we all grew together as an agency Azie welcome to the show this is going to be a great conversation today you know here on the heart and hustle podcast we love hearing from leaders like you about the heart and hustle that got them to where they are today now I

[2:28]  know early in your career had a love for Neuroscience but a conversation with a friend put you on a different path let's kind of talk a little bit about that of course well let me uh go back just a little a few few years before that um I was a premedic um student uh major I wanted to become a psychiatrist um I had passion for medicine treating uh people and mental health so I put the two together and I decided to be become a psychiatrist so um I was a neuroscience major as an undergrad um I took all the prerequisite uh courses to uh get into medical school um I got into medical school um but uh

[3:20]  second semester into medical school I realized medicine is not the fit for me um so I left medical school it was a very difficult decision as you can imagine CU I had worked so hard to get into a good medical school it went to UC Davis do you mind if we actually talk about that a little bit Aussie because there are so many people who find themselves going down the path of what they think they're going to be doing for a long time but then they're they come across these experiences in life that kind of give them the signal that maybe this isn't what I want to do what was the experience like what type of conversations who did you lean on to make that big pivot away from you know that undergrad very good question um you know it's it's not easy um you know having this belief all throughout your

[4:08]  life your childhood um and I don't know how much you know about uh the roote to getting to getting into medical school it's very difficult it's um very prerequisites a ton of classes application process everything yeah research uh Publications um um just everything you know it's it's a very competitive uh process but I went through it um and um I I did not like medicine I mean I I loved helping people but the fact that I had to um work at a hospital setting or maybe a clinic and see patients after patients and um you know with the with

[4:59]  new medicine you only have maybe 20 minutes to see a patient so you have to rush through your appointment you really can't get to know your patients or you know make connections um so I realized this is not what I want to do for the rest of my life um so you know early on I started seeing um counseling I went I I went to get counseling at UC Davis and I you know you know I I kept on telling them you know I'm not really enjoying myself I don't think this is it for me and they were trying to walk me through it that you know you're you're gonna you're GNA like it you know just give it time and then second semester I said you know I'm just I'm not happy you know the

[5:48]  Aussie you see on this side I'm I'm a very happy people person I'm uh very optimistic I'm very positive um you know every morning that I wake up um you know birds are singing I look out the window I'm just happy um and I didn't see myself as uh being happy uh at that stage of My Life um so you know I I called my parents one day and I said um I'm leaving I'm leaving medicine um well I went back I went back what was that conver we can't we can't skip past this what was that conversation like this is really important for the audience because having this conversation with our parents who expect us to go down a

[6:36]  certain path is a really scary obstacle to overcome so what was that conversation like with Mom and Dad it wasn't easy um you know I mean they uh I I guess they worked as hard as me to get me where I was you know they helped me throughout the way um so it definitely wasn't an easy conversation for them um I think they saw it as um a failure possibly um but do you think that do you think that that failure perspective I'm I'm not trying to dive too deep into this but I think this is a really important conversation because when I talk to my friends who are in the middle of their early professional career or when we're in our 20s right we're making big

[7:23]  decisions and so many people are informed because of the pressures that Mom and Dad put on us and so when you said maybe they perceived it as a failure I'm wondering if they saw it as a failure from your perspective or maybe they looked at it as a failure from Mom and Dad's perspective where they're going to have to say what am I going to tell everybody who's asking about Aussie and how medical school's going you know it's a really interesting conversation no you're you're right it was a failure for all of us I'm sure that's how they saw it um now if if you want me to go back a few years before I I came to the US when I was 17 um so I I finished high school here I graduated from high school here so I

[8:09]  only I only went to high school my senior year and it was the most challenging year of my life uh because I came here um I'm Iranian so I came here from Iran um and now I'm in high school um and I went to to Maryland um one we lived in Maryland for one year and that's where I went to high school and it's a primarily um white so they and I did not speak a word of English um however academically in Iran students are very high um so they placed me in advanced uh uh class classes um AP Physics AP Chemistry istry

[9:00]  pre-calculus um and just imagine I I didn't speak any English so you you can see how difficult um that era was for me to get through all the classes graduate from high school I went to college again um all thinking you know I'm going to become a doctor you know we we came to this country um we made it so far and I got a make the best out of it um and at that at that time point in time medicine was the most rewarding field you know you help people um you make a good living for you and your family it was just you know

[9:47]  everything status that comes along with that right even for Mom and Dad exactly um so I went to college um I I worked very hard as a a premit student um and again English being my second language um and we didn't have at the time we didn't have the technology we have today um so I remember I had to take a a tape recorder to every lecture tape record the lecture I would come home transcribe it and then I had a u English to farsy dictionary I then had to translate the lecture and then learn the lecture so you know it would take me probably five

[10:35]  six times as just any other student to grasp the information because mainly because of the language barrier the amount of the tenacity and the grit and the challenges that you've overcome Azie I'm so glad that we can have this conversation on the podcast because this tells me so much more about you and your resolve to be successful but also your bravery as you went through this process this is really really cool and thank you so much for sharing the story this is absolutely amazing you can keep going of course of course um so again you know it was no easy work uh being a preed you know English as your second language the hard work I had to do uh you know all the you know the

[11:25]  hardcore biology classes and chemistry classes organic chemistry AP you know the the different you know The Graduate level physics classes all of that um and then to get into medical school and then say no you know I'm I'm not I I don't want to do this um so when I left medical school um I went to study to pursue my education in neuroscience so um I was a doctoral student became a doctoral student in Neuroscience um and then my goal was to become um a professor teach psychology classes and

[12:17]  Neuroscience classes um so I graduated in 2006 with my doctor in uh neuroscience and I started teaching at a local community um University um it was very rewarding I loved it but about the same time um a friend of mine um who was working at this uh nonprofit organization funded by the state um that Services individuals with autism spectrum disorder and other special needs um they had an opening um for well a doctorate in Psychology which

[13:08]  I am I'm a you know I'm a doctor of psychology with a specialization in Neuroscience uh I applied for the position uh come to find out the opening was for a clinical psychologist which I'm not I'm not a clinical psychologist um about a month later uh the director ctor of the organization uh called me and said would you be interested in becoming an Autism specialist um for the organization uh and I said well it definitely sounds amazing but I'm not an Autism specialist uh she said well you know don't don't worry about it um come come in for an interview so they interviewed me they said we're going to send you

[13:56]  through all the trainings um that makes you an Autism specialist um so I accepted the position this was in 2008 um and I've just been in the field since 2008 and it's been the most rewarding um experience I feel like um and and this is what I what I tell all the youngsters you know just don't settle um for Less you know find your dream um you know I mean look at me I went

[14:43]  from uh medicine um to Academia to then F find this field which I'm very passionate for the scariest experience is obtaining the life you thought would make you happy but it not feeling like what you hoped for how many times have people made that mistake Azie I think it's really interesting for us to talk about that because you were brave enough when the writing on the wall that only you could see said that you're going down the right path or the wrong path and you made an extreme pivot to be happy that is something I admire so much it's really tough for me to be able to communicate it through this virtual setting but I look up to you so much because

[15:29]  do not have bravery to do things and they up in a place of regret which is a terrible place to end up in I agree I agree you know I think part of it was luck but you know I wouldn't settle if I if I if I started a career or a path where I was not happy I would change it I would try something different you know I'm not a type of person that would go to work um 8 in the morning come home at 56 and being miserable I just can't see myself uh being that so do you ever think about um the responsibility that we have to the people who came before us grandmas

[16:19]  grandpas moms dads great extended family members I use this as an example on the podcast often but I use this as a reflection activity in my personal life my great-grandfather was a sharecropper in Arkansas for trade of Labor he had a place to stay for his family to live a huge sacrifice my great grand or my grandfather was born in the 1930s as a black man and was discriminated against because of the color of his skin my father was the first entrepreneur who had opportunities to do something different and break the mold now I'm here hosting this podcast a couple Generations away from them and I often think that it is my duty to live the most fulfilled life and take advantage of the most opportunities that I possibly can because the people who came

[17:06]  before us didn't even have that opportunity that's an amazing thing to reflect on I agree I totally agree with you and and this is what I you know I I tell my children I have a 18-year-old and a 14-year-old I tell them um dream big you know you you gotta um you got to go for what really makes you happy and I tell them I I I tell them you have it so easy I mean with um everything they have um and I I tell them my story I say you know your your mom you know look at me I had to go through all these hardships to get to where I am today and you know it's a it's it's a Pity if you

[17:57]  if you don't take advantage of the easy life you have and all you can achieve in this world and this and this country is a world of opportunities I mean it truly is um Everybody anybody can do it I mean if I did it I really I really think anybody can do it um if they just work a little hard that's my story I mean it's it's a it's a beautiful story but your story doesn't stop there you know um I was listening to a podcast probably three four months ago with a psychiatrist who was talking about gen Z and their low levels of resiliency one thing that they were

[18:44]  talking about was because of the standard more common than not American Family nucleus we do not have relationships with our extended family members grandmothers grandfathers from either side and one of the things that we miss out on in those experiences and those relationships is the oral stories that are told about how we had to come from Iran and how your mom was 17 years old and came to a high school where she didn't speak the language and had to come home every day and translate the lectures that she was hearing XYZ those oral stories are so important for building resiliency and that's an amazing advantage that you've given your children as well and I don't think they probably realize that yet um I I don't know um I think they're

[19:32]  proud um but you're right um you know a a lot of a lot of gen Z kids don't get to don't have the the the family values um you know the advice from the mom the the grandpa the aunt um definitely they're they're a different culture different generation it's it's an interesting time in our society today because we have so many challenges when it comes to mental and Behavioral Health in our communities so with your work that you guys are doing at ibh I want to talk about the origin story of starting the organization so how did we get from where we were to where we are here today

[20:20]  let's kind of walk down that timeline and share your story of course um so I started working for that um nonprofit organization in 2008 um it was a wonderful experience I learned everything there is to know about autism the field of ABA um the needs um service providers what's needed what's lacking uh from that organization and then at some point I felt like my work there was as an Autism specialist at that organization my work was to oversee other ABA providers so I I would oversee their

[21:07]  work um but at at some point then my work wasn't as satis satisfactory anymore I I wasn't the one making the difference I was watching everybody else make the difference and I was just uh either critiquing them or giving them feedback or reviewing their work um so I decided um and based on all the knowledge that I had gathered from that organization and what the needs really are um to start up my own organization and that was no easy task it's a scary jump making going from the 9 to five and then trading that in for a 247

[21:53]  365 exactly and that that it it really was like that 24 seven for probably a good two to three years um there was no sleep you know even during sleep I was dreaming about it I was dreaming about work and what's gonna what I'm going to do the next day um so I started ibh in May of 2013 um obviously myself and we didn't have an office at the time so I interviewed this young lady uh by the name of Heather Bentley um over the phone I interviewed her she was uh she had just obtained her

[22:43]  bachelor's degree had no experience in ABA or in the field of um mental health or Autism but she came on board um and you know we we slowly grew um we're now over 200 um staff um Heather benley is our executive director of Clinical Services so she grew with me she amazing um you know we have over 700 clients um it's it's just beautiful you know uh to see how we all grew together as an agency um and you know built the agency

[23:33]  together 11 years now you guys have been in business which is a huge accomplishment I just crossed in July this year my 10th anniversary which feels really good and that means that we are in rare company because a lot of businesses don't survive this long right yes I want to Let's do an exercise in perspective here if we could go back to the origin of you just making the jump from the 9 to5 to the 247365 and you could sit across from that version of Aussie what advice would you give to her as she's starting this journey that's a very good question you know I sometimes I think about it I go back because the Aussie in 2013 is not the Aussie in 24 2024 I'm a very different Aussie in so many

[24:25]  different ways um I see the world differently um you know a lot of the things that mattered back then don't matter anymore and a lot of the things that I didn't even think about at the time is is a big deal today um so the question is what would I tell aie of 2013 right I would tell her just keep on going what you're doing is going to pay off uh um you know you're you're going to build a beautiful agency and I I I never want to take credit for what I what we have today because I didn't build it by myself

[25:13]  there were people like Heather Bentley and Yuki Jens and um Ben Dr Ben Cornell's and Sarah Max SWS and um Amanda ches John our HR manager and so many more that I can name Dominique our um our recruiting specialist I mean we all buil it built it together it wasn't just me and we worked hard we all worked hard but you know we can now um and we're still building it I mean we're it hasn't stopped but you know it it paid off the hard work definitely paid off so I would do it over and over and over again so that that would be I've been in

[26:02]  the mindset recently where I continuously think about having more fun along the way the one of the biggest things that I'm scared of is one day I'm going to get to the finish line that where I finally can say I did it everything that I said I was going to do I accomplished no matter how much I stressed out along the way and put pressure on myself the one regret that I have when I get there is looking back and saying I wish I would have enjoyed the process more now that sounds kind of just like up in the sky right but think about those early days when we start the business and we're so stressed because we're putting the pressure on ourselves and now look at us where we are today did all the stress matter did all that

[26:50]  negative selft talk matter often it didn't because we're here right but it's it's all experiences so even even even those bad experiences I mean you look back and they were good experiences because they made you who you are today I remember I think one tell one thing I would tell aie would be don't don't take a lot of things personal um there's a lot of turnover in this field and early on on you know people would come on board and then there were wonderful employees I thought we had a great um relationship working relationship and

[27:40]  then they would leave let me tell you the very first employee of ibh that resigned I cried I even cried in front of the employee which which now I think must have been I mean it's so embarrassing but I just couldn't help it because um I took it personal I thought you know I did something wrong you know why does she not like Aussie or ivh you know what did I do wrong um but now a lot of people that fit the culture fit our ibhs culture they'll stay um and many don't and it's okay it's okay even those that do fit

[28:30]  the culture sometimes they move on to do better things just like I did and I love it you know I'm happy for them I tell them um I always want to see my employees do great things in life whether it's with ibh or it's outside of ibh um so yeah that would be I guess my one advice to Azie just um you know relax a little don't take things so personal it's it's tough though because this is a unique class of people right when you're the CEO and founder of this organization this feels like our baby and it feels like an extension of ourselves I was having a conversation with a good friend this weekend who is also a founder and CEO of his company

[29:17]  and he was saying you know the one thing that I really struggle with is the separation of identity between the work that I do and the person who I am it all seems to have blurred at some point across the table or across this journey so how do you keep your identity separate from the CEO of ibh and the work that you do have you been able to do that or do you have advice for people who might be struggling in that space well what's been easy for me is I I never really saw myself as a CEO you know I I see myself as just another employee I mean that's um if you come to my office I I have a little cubic cubicle next to everybody else so I don't have an executive office everybody

[30:05]  calls me Aussie um so I mean at work I I'm I'm nobody's CEO really unless I have to be you there there there are certain times that you have to just put that CEO hat and you know tell them who the boss is but that doesn't happen very often um so really that wasn't a challenge for me you know I I I've always been the Aussie um you know as a CEO and before being a CEO at home so I don't have a very good advice in that I guess and that's okay for me it would be just be yourself you know I

[30:56]  want to know a little bit about your maturation process in leadership so you know one of the toughest skill sets that nobody seems to learn is being a leader and often being a leader is completely different from being a good clinician or a mental health professional right so how did you kind of grow in your leadership Journey how has that been for you as we've gone past the 11 years that we kind of can reflect on I guess for me um I delegate and from early on um I I don't micromanage um and I always tell my staff you know there is I only have one brain but then there is 200 of you and there's 200 brain so

[31:45]  together we're going to think so much bigger than just me um I I see Talent when I see talent I recognize it I um I decide you know I I think about okay you know they have this very special skill what they could be good at um and then I put them in that specific position but I I kind of I lost the the question what was the question no you're totally good I was talking about your leadership journey and how we've kind of changed along this path right so here's a good way for us to kind of pick this up you know a lot a lot of leaders that I know often struggle with what I call

[32:33]  it's my baby syndrome meaning this is my organization I want to control everything from the delivery of Clinical Services so when we become great leaders it's easier for us to be able to trust in others and let them do their job so it seems like that's something that came to you naturally from what we're talk no it was it was never I mean maybe early early on very early on it was my baby but very soon I realized that you know if it stays just my baby that it's not what I can't get it too far uh I need people around me to help me grow this baby the baby was fast growing and you know one mom was not enough um I needed

[33:24]  a village to grow this baby um and that's what I did so um you know we have again delegation I have people you know running different departments and they run it beautifully probably even better than I would um if I were to do it myself um they just report back to me or if there are challenges or if they have questions they come to Azie you know um maybe for advice or recommendation but um you know we have different programs run by different clinical

[34:13]  directors different supervisors different leads um and they do an amazing job so no it was never my baby or not for very long it was my baby baby then it became our baby I want to I want to talk a little bit about the topic of like Innovation as an example so we've seen the space change you know from ABA Services mental and Behavioral Health have dramatically changed in the recent years what got us here is not going to get us to where we're going with the demand in our communities for so many people needing our services how are you thinking about technology and Innovation being able to reach people being able to create efficiencies what is kind of your perspective as a CEO of ibh right now

[35:00]  looking at in the marketplace well it's a godsent uh technology in this field um so we have the um electronic medical records that we use for billing purposes um payroll we have our uh data collection is all electronic um you know something I use frequently is Chad GPT you know English is my second language I can as as much as I try so hard to write a very professional you know letter it it doesn't come easy to me so I just put my thoughts together in chat

[35:47]  GPT and inv writes me this beautiful long professional email you know to who whoever it is um you know just you and I um doing a podcast here a lot of our trainings are virtual um our services not So Much Anymore during uh Co we had a lot of virtual Services uh but after covid we took it back to mainly in home uh or Community Based uh but still we have um some of our therapies are still virtual I not everybody not um not every client can benefit from a virtual

[36:34]  service um so it's it's been wonderful what do we say to the CEOs who aren't looking to explore technology even like chat GPT artificial intelligence what would be a word of advice that you have for these people who are saying you know what you're missing out it can make your life your agency your employee EMP es um so much easier so much um you know faster uh more efficient um I mean we were initially doing um our data collection paper and pencil and then we had to put it all put all the information into Excel and then graph the data because in you know ABA we all about data and data

[37:25]  analysis but now with this um you know with this software you know electronic data collection we just uh push a button and it does the graph for us so we can see that like the trend of the behavior or the progress of the child everything right there you know the supervisor can be in the home sitting in their home and they can uh see the data see what's going on during session um so I mean everybody everyone should take advantage of the technology I agree I think uh we have to look at these things through the the lens of curiosity right the Curious mind allows for us to say how can this fit rather

[38:14]  than this will or this will not fit in our world and especially like we talked about the ability to meet the community with needs that they have we have to use technology because we're we only have so much time as a team member we only have so much Focus so much energy and so being able to serve the community with this technology is truly amazing you know Azie there's a a tradition that we have here on the podcast we end by saying or giving the previous guest an opportunity to ask you a question now this individual is an amazing CEO who works in the mental health space but he uses the ability to train service dogs for veterans so they can have a battle buddy and a companion in life the question that he wanted to ask you was what is the one way that you can be more vulnerable at work with your team what

[39:04]  is one way that I could be more vulnerable at work with my team tell me a little more about the CEO he yes so this this guy's name is Chris Nelson right and he wants to be able to create a better culture of vulnerability in leadership Because he believes that when we are vulnerable with our teams it lets them know that we are human and when we are human we get better results out of everybody and so he need he said we need to redefine what from his perspective being an alpha in an organization looks like and because he trains dogs he's like being an alpha is not being the tough scary one but it's being strong enough to be vulnerable sometimes with your team so you can elicit ideas start conversations and help them feel like

[39:51]  this is a place where they can contribute so his question was what is one way that you can be more vulnerable at work with your team to get those type of results well for me again it's it's always come natural you know I'm myself and I think just being myself um and not pretending to be somebody else or somebody tough or somebody's boss because I I hate that even though as I mean as much as we have uh respect at work uh but I don't want people looking up to me as their boss and being scared um so I guess my vulnerability to them would be just being myself you know

[40:41]  I there's been times you know if if Aussie is not having a good day people at work realize they know they ask me you know what's going on are you okay and I tell them well you know this or that happened so I guess just be yourself and then when you're yourself then people can connect to you better they can communicate with you better they can relate to you they can bring to you their problems and be a good listener that would be my advice you know there's a really interesting concept that we talked about at the end of our episode that I did with Chris we were saying you know it's very interesting how we're seeing the paradigms of leadership change and when I asked his question

[41:28]  from the previous guest I said you know how can we help these guys be better leaders and he said what we need to really recognize is the Paradigm is Shifting in leadership we have more women who are being amazing leaders that men need to look up to because they are naturally vulnerable they are naturally showing up as themselves and they don't fit themselves or try and force themselves into the Paradigm of being the tough guy and that's a big development that we're going to see and just here hearing your response of saying this is who I am as a leader is something that reinforces my time with Chris that we spent together and it just makes it more and more apparent that amazing leaders are you know great female leaders like you which I'm really excited about for the future yeah so as we kind of end here today um I just want to say thank you so much aie

[42:16]  for coming on the show sharing your story talking about how Brave you were in those early days to make a pivot towards something that you knew was going to make you happy changing from the nine to five and committing to the 247 365 and how much you've grown in this journey has been an amazing story for us to be able to share here today thank you so much for coming on the podcast I really enjoyed it and and um let me tell you um since we scheduled to have this podcast I went and listened to some of your other podcasts and I I'll tell you I've listened to some but I'll be listening to all because and I wish I had found you earlier because it's I mean people like me sometimes we feel like we're alone you know a lot of

[43:03]  CEOs don't necessarily talk to each other you know we talk to staff and our clients but not necessarily to other CEOs to see what challenges they're facing um what they're doing what's helping them but these podcasts I'm I'm loving them I mean I've probably listened to probably five or six and I'd be sure to listen to all of them and I'll be f following you you know for the future podcast because these are amazing thank you you know for what you're doing um you're making a big difference for people like us you make my job easy because all I have to do is create the space for an amazing leader like you to share their story and that's why I feel like this is so powerful so for everybody who's been

[43:49]  tuning in watching and listening if you want to discover other other episodes go ahead and check them out because you know aie is a perfect example example of what somebody is when there's the beautiful intersection of heart and hustle so that's a wrap we'll catch you guys in the next one