From Prosecutor to Purpose: John Temple’s Mission to Disrupt Despair

[0:00]  sharing that that news that no matter what we've been through, no matter what's gone, like until we're dead, he's not done with us, right? Like he's got work to do through [music] us and you don't know how he'll be able to take that pain and [music] turn it into something good that helps others. Um, so it's awesome that you're, you [music] know, you're and when you talk about things, right, you take power out of them, too, you know, and and again, I, you know, I I have a true heart for [music] what you went through, right? as having been on the side of, you know, prosecuting people who've been [music] um who were abusers and sexual abusers and and just that, you know, seeing what people can overcome and moving from victim to survivor [music] and then how powerful survivors can be. Um

[0:49]  there's there's definitely something beyond, [music] you know, what we can do as individuals that fuels that. And so [music] yeah, love love all those stories. Welcome back to another episode of the Heart and Hustle Podcast. We talk a lot about AI tech. We talk to founders. We talk to those in the healthcare space. But let's be real. Hope is something no algorithm can actually replace. And today we got a guy who's actually blending the power of faith, storytelling, and and AI in a way that's actually making a difference. John

[1:35]  Temple, the CEO of Guidepost. Welcome to the show. How you doing? Awesome. Thank you so much for having me. Really appreciate being here. Oh man. Listen, it's early morning right now. We got our I don't know if you're drinking tea or you drinking coffee, but I'm I'm a coffee guy all the way, but uh you know, I I used to drink coffee, but I cold turkey gave it up in December and I think it was just more gut health. I feel so much better. So now I'm classy.

[1:55]  I tell everybody I'm like coffee. I drink tea. Okay. With the pink [laughter] on. It reminds me of that Ted Lasso where he just keeps trying to drink tea and keeps spitting it out. I kind of have that Ted Lasso vibe to it. I I found one man that really works for me. But John, I got to ask, man. Growing up, did you ever imagine yourself leading a nonprofit like Guidepost or was there like a totally different dream in the mix? Yeah, when I was really young, my ultimate dream was to be quarterback for the New York Jets. That would have been exactly what I would have loved to have done as like a seven-year-old kid. Um, and unfortunately, the way the Jets have played, I actually might have had a shot at it at 5 foot 10. And not a lot of physical skill, but um, you know, as I as I grew up, I was always drawn to, uh, helping people in various ways. I knew I

[2:43]  always wanted to do something that was in service. Um, and so I really thought about um, international problems and I had an older sister who was about eight years older than me and she went away to school and she came back and every time she would come back from school, she would educate me. So I was this, you know, I was 10, she was 18 when she went to school and she'd come back and she'd say, "Do you know what's happening in the world over here? Do you know what happened over there?" And and so she really gave me this education that kind of uh, you got me excited to try to to do something about it. So, I really saw myself kind of in the international human rights type of a type of work at some point. Um, and did a did a little bit of of that, but but on much more local level.

[3:26]  I love it, man. And you have a pretty crazy background if I'm not mistaken. Um, there was some law in there, right? Is that correct? You're an advocate. You're fighting for victims. What was that turning point that really made you pivot into this space? Yeah, sure. And so my my I'm a lawyer by trade and then I went to the Manhattan DA's office for about 14 years where I worked on all sorts of cases and and uh supporting victims and uh seeking justice for for what had been done to them. Um and I was most drawn during that time to special victims work which includes uh domestic violence, sex crimes cases uh and then ultimately doing anti-trafficking work. Um, and so I uh was very fortunate enough to be in a place where I was able to help develop

[4:14]  a a unit uh at the Manhattan DA's office and uh be able to run that unit for uh a number of years and and just really try to do something about a very intractable problem. Um but for all that time, you know, it always felt uh it was great work. I love that work. Um, but it felt like I was trying to take bad out of the world and I really was looking for an opportunity to put good into it and that's really what Guidepost is all about. Um, and so I I love their mission. I've known the organization for a long time. Um and it was an opportunity to to in a era where we see lots of negativity and people ripping each other down the organization was part of a movement of hope and that really just just drew me to it.

[5:01]  C can you talk to people that are listening and may not know what Guidepost um really does for the community? Could we talk about a little bit about what Guidepost does? Sure. We are a faith-based ministry that helps people find practical hope in the everyday by connecting with God. And so we uh help people find practices that help them know that they're loved, that they're important, that they're special, that they're uh what they do matters in this world. And so we do that in in several different ways. Um we have a large um book publishing side to us. So we'll do about 55 books a year and that covers everything from things like um fiction series that are hopeful and positive and faith affirming to um

[5:49]  Bibles, Bible studies sort of on the more Christc centered uh uh view of what we do. And then we do a whole bunch of other uh books that are around um topics that are just helping people figure out how to find God's grace in the everyday. people overcoming people who are uh uh you know finding hope in places that are just unexpected. Um so that's sort of one side. We also have a still robust magazine groups. We publish uh uh six different magazines um and reach about a million people a year through that channel. Um and then we also people help people find daily habits through uh our app channel and our our newsletters and and other digital channels. Um, it was really interesting. Uh, we acquired several years ago an app called Abide.

[6:39]  Um, and when Abide was founded, it was supposed to just help people how to pray. Because sometimes when you think about praying, you're just like, "Okay, I gotta, you know, get into this and it's got to be formal and if I don't use the right language and and there's a real power to to knowing that it's okay to just be like, God, I don't know what to do, you know, and just talk to God like I would be talking to you."

[6:59]  And just that that connection that you can have there um is so powerful. Most people don't think about it. they either have shame to it or they have these other feelings that are just not the joy that should come from it. And so um when we started Abide, it was originally started as a prayer app. Um and we looked at it and looked at the data and quickly realized that people were using it not during the middle of the day like we thought they were. They were using it from 12 a.m. to 4:00 a.m. And we realized it's because people couldn't sleep. They were anxious. They were feeling overwhelmed. And so they were looking for something to to help calm them down um and and connect them with something more important. So um our sleep and meditation then became a really big part of what's in that app today. Um and really helps a lot of

[7:48]  people. We get all these testimonials about people are saying, you know, I used to take sleeping pills and now I don't have to. I can just turn on Abide and and go to sleep. And so just seeing those stories and hearing the change that that that hope can bring is just really what excites me about guidepost. I I want to talk about guidepost a little bit more and not so much guidepost itself but you right.

[8:10]  Guidepost is all about hope. Do you remember that moment in your life where hope really changed everything for you? Yeah. I mean I I think there's been a whole bunch of of different moments where that's happened and I can can definitely see that. I mean I think you know there was there's been I have been grateful to witness miracles big and small um that have given me hope and I'll maybe share one story um on the big side um where when my youngest daughter Lucy was born um we were in the hospital you and I were talking about kids and you know it's a one-year-old kid and so I we have these twin girls who were who were two at the time when Lucy was born And um and we were in the in the hospital overnight and we were in a room

[8:59]  down at the end of the hall. It was kind of quiet on the maternity ward. Um and so my wife was was sleeping. I was on the chair sleeping and all of a sudden and just for some unknown reason uh it was about 3:00 in the morning. I woke up and I just looked at Lucy and I didn't know why. I didn't I didn't there was nothing. I didn't hear anything. But I happened to see as she turned over, she had spit up and and kind of, you know, let something out. And all of a sudden, she started turning blue.

[9:31]  And I'm looking at her and she's not breathing. And so fiveb little baby. And so I ran over and grabbed her and I'm hitting her on the back and she wasn't able to breathe. So I go running down the hallway looking for a nurse and it's empty and deserted. And then I finally find this nurse coming out and I just hand Lucy to her and she grabs her and smashes her on the back and all of a sudden Lucy starts crying and breathing again. And the next day the doctor comes and the pediatrician comes in and says um you know I'm telling her what happened and I said well what if I didn't wake up at that moment and she said but you did. I said yeah but what if I didn't wake up in that moment? She said but you did. And so, you know, when

[10:19]  I think about hope and I think about miracles and I think about ways that that God works in my life, that's a moment where, you know, if it's something small, if it's something big, I can go back to that moment and know, you know, somebody's looking out for me because I did wake up at that moment. I did do those things and I can't explain that in any other way. And so I think that's getting back to guideposts when we share stories like that.

[10:51]  It does more I think in some regards. I mean there's there's great pastors, there's great sermons, there's great people who are great spiritual leaders and it doesn't mean to diminish anything what they do, but our approach is not to say, okay, this is what you should believe, this is what you should do. It's not about the doctrine of it, but it's about sharing those moments of hope, big and small. So in our magazine as an example, we have celebrities who come in and share stories like that that they don't share anywhere else because it's not about their their new movie or their new book. It's not about the publicity. It's about how they experience that grace in their life. Um and again, that's what drives me to it.

[11:28]  It's it's I don't love being told what to do or what to believe. It's just not I just don't care for that. And so where where Guidepost comes in, um I love that we can share those stories. I love that we can connect in the universality of of humanity and I love that we can find hope in sharing those stories with one another.

[11:50]  I love that and those are the reasons that I love stories and I love conversations because the things that you're able to see and people overcome. I'm I'm with you on the storytelling aspect of life and sharing. I think everything that we go through like what you just mentioned to to me with your daughter was a testimony, right? And I I always tell this everybody because I'm in a space where my wife when we first got together it was like she was pushing you know we got to go to church we got to go do this we got to go do that or she would say you know one day you're going to be a preacher and and I'm so I just laughed her and my best friend always say this every time they see this big pastor which you know I'm very honored that they see me in that light and I said but what you guys don't realize is that I I am preaching every single day that I walk into the world I talk to people that don't even know God but because I can tell them the story on how God has changed my life or

[12:39]  how God was there for me. You just mentioned how God was there for you at that moment. Those are the moments that people need to see because it's so authentic. It's so real. So, I love that you guys are putting real life stories cuz that's what changes somebody's life. You know, we talk a lot of the times we we we'll share the the the uh stories in the Bible, but a lot of people can't relate to it. But what happens when you can relate to it? You know, so I always tell that I was sexually abused. I was adopted and and things that I had to overcome. there's someone dealing with that right now. There's someone that was dealing with, you know, possibly almost losing their child, but they woke up. They can relate to it.

[13:13]  It it allows them to feel like, man, maybe God was there with me. So, I love that you guys are in that storytelling um aspect of of life. When you talk about the stories, by the way, are these stories created by the organization itself? Are these like uh people that uh volunteer their time for the for the books? Like, how does all that being written? Yeah. So, we have a great team of folks who really know how to find those stories and then help people to tell them. And so, people will submit their stories. People will come in and say, "Look, I think I got a great guy story." And we build that into um you know, the magazine or we build that into a story block or we build that into a meditation or we build that into um you know, devotional practice, a daily practice that just gets you up and thinking about the right things. Um, you know, it sounds like you have a few of

[13:59]  those stories. So, maybe after this we we talk about what those are and see if we can figure out uh where where it connects. But I like this. I like this idea. Was this something that you already came into or was this something that you started? Oh, no. This has been around um so Guidepost is almost 80 years old. So, we were founded by um Norman Vincent Peele uh who was a pastor at Marble Collegi Church in in Manhattan. Um, and so in the 40s and 50s, he was, you know, filling stadiums full of people coming to hear him speak. Um, but when he started out, he, you know, after World War II, the church went through a season where it was like people weren't going.

[14:41]  They just didn't, they weren't going. They were like, "All right, we we've prayed a lot during the war. We're not going to go do this anymore." And so what he did was he really went out and just started talking to people and putting stories in his sermons and making them relatable and using humor and and just made them so simple and and put it together um you know really with psychology. I mean, he he was one of the first to sort of blend spirituality and psychology to get more positive mental health health and spiritual health outcomes for folks. Um, and so he really was the pioneer to say, "We're going to be what was back in the day multimedia.

[15:23]  I'm going to have a pulpit. I'm going to have a magazine. I'm going to have newspaper series. I'm going to have radio." And he was using usergenerated content before that was, you know, they wouldn't have known what userenerated content was. He walked around and said, "All right, tell me great stories and I'm going to go out and tell them, inspire people with them." So, UGC way before was cool.

[15:43]  Hey, real quick. If you enjoying the podcast, we first want to say thank you. And we also just want to give you a little insight of what we're up to at Francis. Some don't even realize that we're working with organizations to help them use AI to create that real human [music] communication experiences, whether that's actually supporting your your families, those patients, or the entire community. We're actually creating tech that connects. Check it out. Francis.ai.

[16:12]  That's why I love to have conversations, man. I uh I always tell these stories and it's just when I see someone that comes from the trenches or um one story that I like to share all the time, I had a really good friend, number one wrestler in the state, and just wrong environment. We [clears throat] graduated high school. months later he ends up doing five years in prison. And the only reason he did sorry that yeah five years five years in prison he should have done more but because his wrestling coach his status at school like all that allowed him to do less but and then he comes out of doing five years and just didn't know where to fit in life right there's no opportunities now so he ends up an opportunity meaning a painter never painted a day in his life you know painting houses to this day the oh he that the owner

[17:01]  then says months later hey I don't want the business anymore do you want my materials? He said, "Sure." He started his own painting company. He's been doing that now for the last almost 10 years, you know, and and when you think about those moments, it's like, man, God would really put you through something for you to be able to see things at a different level. And I'm a big believer that when when something happens in your life, as much as we always dwell on the negative, what do you take out of those moments?

[17:29]  What makes you know? So when like I just mentioned the whole abuse and adoption to me I look at it as I'm grateful for the opportunity like those moments in my life because those are opportunities I get to tell people and share how I overcame it and that they can too. So I I man listen I'm always sharing story that that story that you told me today about your daughter. You best believe I'm telling my wife about that story because [laughter] you know those are stories I even like through the miscarriages my wife had or you know those things that I didn't even know was a thing and I tell my wife as much as it was hard at the moment you don't know why it happened to you. Maybe our daughter has to go through this same thing years from now and now you can actually relate and talk about it or or maybe you're going to meet another mother out and about that is experiencing this and you could be that that light for her. So I love what Guidepost has done. And I love what the founder done so many years ago. And

[18:16]  we should have more of that because when people start to hear those stories, man, it really does. You just don't know how many people you impact. And sometimes they would never even tell you you impacted them. It's just that they heard a story. They seen these blogs, these these uh magazines. I think that's pretty dope. Yeah. Well, and like for you, like as you're talking about like I I totally hear what you're saying, right? as you're as you go out into the world like you're using, you know, what your experience was and what you went through to inspire others, right? And and and know even in your friend's story, right?

[18:49]  That redemptive quality of, you know, God's not done with us, right? Sharing that that news that no matter what we've been through, no matter what's gone, like until we're dead, he's not done with us, right? Like he's got work to do through us. and you don't know how he'll be able to take that pain and turn it into something good that helps others.

[19:10]  Um, so it's awesome that you're, you know, you're and when you talk about things, right, you take power out of them, too, you know, and and again, I, you know, I I have a true heart for what you went through, right, as as having been on the side of, you know, prosecuting people who've been, um, who were abusers and sexual abusers and and just that, you know, seeing what people can overcome and moving from victim to survivor and then how powerful survivors can be. Um there's there's definitely something beyond, you know, what we can do as individuals that fuels that. And so, yeah, love all those stories.

[19:54]  I I really want to kind of go to this team of yours. This is this is a team that, you know, they're creating these stories and could probably working for a billion a big million dollar corporate job, but they chose to stick around and and and work with Guidepost. What do you think makes them stay in with Guidepost when they can go to some of these big publications?

[20:16]  Yeah. No, I I we have a wonderful wonderful team. Um and I think a lot of it has to do with shared mission. We all share this purpose. We all share this this desire to create a movement of hope. We all, you know, this onetoone ripple effect, right? you telling me a story brings joy to my day and I'm going to bring that joy to somebody else's day because I'm inspired by what you told me now and that's going to just continue and ripple out. And so we all kind of come at it from that same perspective.

[20:47]  And so um we are a nonprofit so we try to pay competitively um and we do to the best of our ability, but at the same time we don't have stock options. We're not going to sell out to a bigger company and and have everybody cash out. Like that's just not what we were about. And so, you know, for those who come to us, they're coming because they want something more than just a job. They don't, you know, they can go and write copy for all kinds of stuff and and um it doesn't have to be this, but they're there because they want to inspire others and share that. And so, that's, you know, it's it's great when you know in every conversation, even when you disagree, even when it's hard, you know that this person genuinely cares about the people we're trying to serve. Um, that's a great place to start and and

[21:34]  get allows you to get through a lot of things. I love it. And is there a story with Guidepost that maybe to this day just personally moves you um reminds you why this work really matters? Yeah, I mean we're I mean there's there's a whole bunch of them. Um there was one in particular, a woman who who wrote to us. So um you know for those of your your viewers or listeners who don't know what we call a devotional practice it's basically a daily thing where where you wake up and um you know there's a scripture there's a short prayer it's and then there's just an up inspiring uplifting story for that day. So the design right is to take negative thoughts that you maybe had in your mind overnight and replace them with positive

[22:23]  ones. So, you go out and you be the best self you can be during the day. Um, and so we we will actually there's about 700,000 people who start with one of our books uh every single day. And so one of the stories that that we heard was from a devotional reader who uh was part of a three generational family. And um her mom had been, you know, reading um Guidepost devotionals for for 30 years.

[22:51]  um she got her daughter into it um the woman who was writing us and then her daughter was actually reading too. And so one of the things that happened was as the the um grandmother was going through dementia and then needed memory care. Um, and for those of us who know what that's like, um, you know, I know your in-law lives with you and and my mother-in-law has lived with me and I've seen Alzheimer's firsthand, and sometimes it becomes very hard to find that connection. The way the three generations found that connection was through our devotional. So, every morning they get on the phone, do a call, and maybe she couldn't interact, but they'd read the devotional together, and they all started their day in the same way. And so that connection that

[23:39]  was still there across three generations so that it could mean something to them so that they could could find that commonality even though they're very different. You know the generations are so there's a lot of talk about you know the boomers and Xers and Z's and all that kind of stuff but um you know it's just so powerful to hear that we could be a part of it right in in some way.

[24:03]  Yeah. I I really want to talk about how you guys have really been from the founder where he was very innovative. He was ahead of his time and here you are now CEO still ahead of your time because you're also now incorporating AI. There's not a lot of leaders, believe me, in the nonprofit space that are wanting to even have AI a part of their their business because they're still curious about they're skeptical, you know, all these different reasons. But you guys have AI in a faith-based nonprofit, which something that probably is not easy, something you don't hear every day. What made you say, "Yeah, we kind of got to get ahead of the game and maybe incorporate some of this AI into guideposts."

[24:41]  Yeah, I mean I I think just overall as a general thought, right, not being afraid of technology is step one and saying, you know, because there's there was a lot of fear particularly around generative um AI and looking at it and saying um wow, particularly for content creators to say, wow, this is they're trying to get rid of my job because it's going to just write the stories and and do those things. And the reality is that's not what it's there for. Um and and it's it's really not good at original thought. It you know it's a predictive model. It predicts the next best word and it's surprisingly good at that in the last couple years. Um and so I think part of it has been to say look we're a small scrappy group with giant aspirations. Um we want to reach 5% of

[25:32]  the US population start this ripple of hope and get it out to the world. And so if we can do that, we're gonna need to go beyond our scrappy group and really accelerate ourselves. And that's where I see a lot of the generative AI stuff that's that's better. I we've been using AI for a long time, whether that's in segmenting audiences or that's in um you know, being able to uh do product development. Like we've used algorithmic AI in other areas. It's the generative piece that I think right now we're really seeing that that quality of of what it can do um and how fast it can make us. And so, you know, looking at things like I I don't think of it as

[26:20]  okay, now it's going to just create content, but I think of it as as something that can really go um and enable our speed to insight. So like if you think about speed to insight, you get data back, right? Like so our pod this podcast, we may get some views, we may get some feedback, we may get some things. You're trying to figure out, okay, what's the next best leader to have on or what's the best um you know, you're plotting the course of this podcast. Yeah.

[26:50]  So, you could go through that by hand and look at all that and and figure that all out, but your speed to insight might come from being able to pull that into a large language model and then be able to prompt engineer queries that get you closer to that, too. Okay. Give me some examples of other audiences that we should be targeting that we're not based upon the content of this transcript that we've done. or show me um how could we have changed this interview in ways that might allow it to be more impactful to this demographic or how do I take this and do a series of social posts that will relate back and drive traffic to this podcast like that speed to insight from creation to use and data ingestion

[27:40]  to okay what do we do with that and how do we make that simple um that's really the power of And if you can you can I heard um another person who's a leader CEO of a company said going from drudgery to daring. So AI can take the drudgery out to allow us to be more daring. Um and so I think I so I'm adopting that. I'm stealing that from him.

[28:06]  But it's a good one. It's a he's right. I think he's totally right. I um what's cool is that there there's those I think we're in a place where we're going to see AI chat bots for nonprofits um 247 donor support um through just these AI models. Where do you actually see the biggest opportunity for AI to help organizations um like yours, but just in the nonprofit space in general that you feel maybe that you're using that everyone can kind of implement into their organizations?

[28:37]  Yeah. And I will confess like first off I we don't have this right like just just you know for anybody like I know it's there's there's a lot of folks out there in the world who say we know how to implement AI for you. We know how to do it and based upon my research and people I've talked to. Nobody's got this wrapped up. So if you're just thinking about this you're in good company. Um, and you know, if we came back in a year from now, I may have a very different tune on this because we we've gone forward. So, I think where we're at though is that, um, most of us who are using it now are trying to accelerate their own personal workflow. So, I use it in my, you know, use case in certain ways. Um, the next step and where we're trying to get to

[29:25]  next is, okay, how do we improve organizational workflows? How do we get things faster? How do we build it into our systems? How do we use it to analyze speed to to insight? How do we look at a process that takes us a week and use AI to give us suggestions and then implement those suggestions so it only takes two days? Um, those are the kinds of questions that I think we're going to be into the most next. And then the customerf facing one and the productization of of large language models and the ability to use natural speech I think is probably a little bit of a later phase for us. Um I know there are some organizations who are doing great and I do think AI chat bots and things you know do have that um that ability to expedite that process. Um,

[30:14]  but I always think there needs to be a high touch with it because there's nothing more frustrating, you know, than getting into an AI loop where it doesn't understand you. In the same way, right, when you're in that that um, you know, customer support and, you know, dial nine for this and you're waiting those lists, you know, we're getting past that.

[30:33]  Yeah. But there always needs to be the escape hatch where I just want to speak to a human. And if you don't do that and you don't integrate that well, you're going to have the same frustrations as those decision trees, uh, using, you know, using the the the buttons. I would say the AI space is is very insane. I was working a couple years back when AI was just releasing. I was working for uh airline and they started to have they and they didn't want you to speak to someone on the phone. They wanted the chatbot to resolve your problem. So, of course, they went in where you can chat now and it would answer like I think the the numbers were like 70% of people had their questions answered by a chatbot. The other 30 just wanted to talk to someone and just

[31:19]  probably because they just wanted to talk to someone, right? Like we're just in a space where people don't want to talk to robots. But I'm see I mean I go to Wendy's and it's an AI taking my order and it's it's knocking out the park. I remember one time saying, "No, I didn't want that. I wanted this one." and it it would change it, you know, and I was like, "Wow, we're in the space where we're ordering our food through AI, you know, like and I can only imagine that would advance." Just imagine now face recognition now. It knows you. It automatically like where's some scary Tom [laughter] you are definitely ahead of the game, man. You're definitely ahead of the game.

[31:51]  It's you just you just put your face out the window and they got your Big Mac, [laughter] right? Crazy stuff. Speaking of and you know in your in your conversations with nonprofit leaders like how where have you seen some of the most interesting use cases? [snorts] The one that I I love so much was people using AI because I use chat GBT a lot but I never thought about using it for grant writing and I'm kind of you know just taking over this organization but one of the things I was saying is we need a grant writer and then when someone says well I just use chat dpt for mine. I'm like, "Wow, that cut costs because grant writing could be pretty expensive." Um, so so those I people trying to incorporate within their website as we mentioned a little bit as well, but fundraising, right? Any fundraising

[32:38]  ideas sometimes you do the same thing. You can go in there and say, "I need some fundraising ideas. This is the community I'm in." And it would give you all these ideas. And I think that's what people fail to realize. It's a resource. It's a tool. It is not going to just take over someone's job, but it will make someone's job easier, right? From what all levels if we understand how to use it and how to I think the biggest thing is prompt it to give us the information that that is, you know, truly needed. And the more that you do it, man, like me and Chad BT, we're friends now. You know, I uh we're laughing together. Uh I was talking to another leader. She said she named hers and I'm like never thought about naming my my assistant. That's really what it is. It's my assistant, per se. [snorts] and and seeing how I give you a good example that I used it recently. I mentioned that we lost a 501c3 for the

[33:25]  organization. So, we got an accountant. He was charging us uh originally $5,000, which was still kind of excessive, but whatever. We paid it. Well, we were going to pay it. And then by the end of it, he then wanted to charge us $8,000. And I'm like, how the hell did we go from five to 8,000? So, I fought that.

[33:42]  And he would he was still trying to go back and forth. But what he didn't realize is that I'm having a conversation with Chat TPTT. I'm putting all the invoices that he's sending me in chat DPT. I'm screenshotting the email and Chatt TPT acted like a CPA and it says, "Well, this is where it was wrong. This is a discrepancy here. Why is this here when this should like it just knew everything, right? IRS fees, why is this fees?"

[34:05]  And at the end of it, I ended up getting um that $5,000 invoice and not the $8,000. It was drafting up emails, you know, aggressively. It's sometimes that has said, "Hey, that's too aggressive. Tone it down a little." [laughter] Yeah, that's very aggressive. That's not like me. But in in ways like that, I've seen another one where it played lawyer for me because let's be honest, we're not lawyers.

[34:27]  We're not CPAs. And sometimes it's very hard for us to get those people um you know to come on board for those prices and and and within minutes maybe 30 minutes of me going back and forth on email or maybe a day but going back and forth on email and chat DBT allowed me to get us out some of the situations.

[34:44]  So that that's kind of how I I've utilized it and I think there's so much other spaces that it could still touch. I think we just haven't really got there yet. But I want to talk about fundraising before we I know we're about to uh wrap up here, but fundraising, we know that is tough and people are more skeptical than ever to just give. How do you actually keep donors engaged and invested in in your mission?

[35:04]  Yeah. I mean, so a few things. I mean, one is we are an 80-year-old organization, so we've developed a lot of trust over a lot of years that when you donate to us, it's going to go to the places that that we serve. And so, um, you know, our our, uh, outreach with the military, with VAS, uh, with prisons, with, um, you know, all kinds of places. Um, so there's we benefit from that trust. Um, but I think the other piece of it is communication and just constantly communicating. Okay, here's what you here's, you know, what we said we were going to do. Here's what we did. Here are the proof points. Here are the here's the data. hear the testimonials. Um, you know, and in full transparency, we're getting better at

[35:52]  that. We've not always been the best at at telling our story in that way because because we've had 80 years of of trust and people so trust us, we would just go out and do the things and then not necessarily feed that loop back. And so we're really in a season where we're as we look to bring new people into the organization, building that trust over time, you say you'll do this thing, you do this, and you've given us proof of it is is such a big thing. And and to your point, I mean, the other flip side of AI is to of how much it destroys trust because all of a sudden makes everything look legit in a way that is just is just very challenging. And so we're leveraging um

[36:40]  you know current donors to find new ones. We're leveraging people who you know love and and love our resources, love our app, love um you know to be able to to use that as an entry point. So we're trying to build trust in a whole bunch of different places and then earn that and then keep it. Um and so if it's really a very classic um you know engagement uh problem for us.

[37:06]  Love it, man. This is such a good conversation. I'm I'm upset that we're about to end this here in just a bit. Um I'm going to I'm going to go to the blind question and then I'll let you kind of speak to the people a little bit as well. So this is the fun part of this session. I always love the blind question because leaders like yourself really don't know what's happening. And this is actually a really good question from our last leader. If I was to hand you a mic and I give you 30 seconds to say something that millions of people would hear, but you never know who heard it, what would you say? 30 seconds. I'm counting. God loves you. [laughter] It would it would be God loves you and you're enough as you are.

[37:42]  Oh, simple. Drop mic drop right there. Okay. All right. Cuz if you tr if you if you truly believe that, if you truly internalize that, there's nothing you can't do. And we're all capable of truly great things if we believe in ourselves and we connect our purpose to God's purpose. not like to make money, not to be famous, not to do those things, but truly to your purpose. That's where real joy and happiness comes from. And that's why nonprofit leaders, I love them all because it's not about the money. I've seen people that walked away from some very high salaries to go and run a nonprofit. And they all tell me the same thing. I should have done it sooner.

[38:24]  Yes, I lost some money, but I'm in my purpose. I feel happy. I'm helping the world. um you know, maybe I'm getting back time with my kids and still doing what I love, right? So, I always challenge other other leaders because there's so many leaders still in that for-profit space that I think could do tremendous work in the the nonprofit space, but there's always that idea that, you know, nonprofits don't make money or whatever it is, but you look at Salvation Army, you know, what is that CEO making? You know, um damn near almost half a million dollars, you know. So, there's there's nonprofits out there definitely making it. What What is your question though for the next leader? that blind question.

[38:59]  Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I like I love that you do that and that's the thing for the next one. Um and so I I have I have two and you can pick which one you want because when you when you said that I was like ah we got a couple. So one is is from my wife who um when and it's a silly one but it actually is fascinating is if you were a vegetable what would you be? Um okay. [laughter] And and so it's it's it's a little silly, but I'll I'll give you a sto quick two second story on it.

[39:30]  Um because she asked that of somebody she was interviewing at some point and they thought about it and they said, "Oh, I'd be a a tomato." And she was like, "I don't know if a tomato is a vegetable." you [laughter] know, it was just and it was fascinating to get people because it's you're in an interview process and it's a ridiculous question and it gives you the opportunity to see how people process information that's not in the moment of what you're talking about. And so we're as we're in this moment where we have we're processing, you know, right now you're processing this conversation, but next minute you're going to be thinking about this thing. You're going to be thinking about your nonprofit. You're going to be thinking about, okay, what am I doing with my kids? like how do you process random information in an unusual context and then deliver actually is an

[40:17]  interesting way to watch the mind work. Um so that was my silly one. So you can take that or leave it. Love it. I'll take it. I'm taking it. the more the more the other one that that I thought about that I think is also really interesting um is you know if you had I have found that things that I don't fully appreciate 5 years ago 10 years ago I really appreciate today. So it would be like what's that one value? What's that one principle that you didn't realize five years ago how important it was and and now do um or wished you you know done it earlier. Something like that.

[40:55]  That's good. Yeah, I like that. So either way, I'll give you I'll give you the silly one and the uh and you can decide what you want to do. I'll be curious to know what you choose. I I I like both of them. I think uh I'll use to be honest with both of them on on different occasions depending who the leader is. Um, but as we wrap it up, man, for those folks that are actually listening, um, and who want to be a part of what you're doing, whether they're donating, whether they're volunteering, or just spreading positivity, where should they go?

[41:21]  Yeah. So, uh, we are all over social. Uh, we, our websites are under review at the moment. So, guidepost.org, um, abide.com are both great places. You can support the organization um through our shop, through buying products, through donating um by gifting them uh and bringing them to to to other folks um and your donations when they when they come in, they go out to helping us provide our products and services to people who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford them. Um so we have scholarship programs. So anybody who comes in and says, you know what, I'd love this, but I just can't do it. we scholarship them so that you know they it's it's not a condition that you can actually um you know pay for and we can still support the organization. So um and also then you know with your stories um you know

[42:10]  hit us up on social Instagram um and share your stories share your stories of of where God has touched you and and touched your heart and changed your life. Um or and send that uh send that into us and you may find yourself uh you know we're going to work on you after we we get this and we'll get you get you in there somewhere.

[42:29]  That'll be cool, man. I love it. I love it. Well, listen, John, this was truly powerful. Thanks for sharing your story. um and your mission as well. And I always love to highlight those leaders, but also just talk about what they've been doing. So, what you guys have been doing at Guidepost is phenomenal. I can't wait to uh collab, maybe get my stuff published out there. I don't know.

[42:46]  This is just where the work in the works. But if you guys are still watching, man, make sure that you guys do share, like, subscribe, and if you guys, as he mentioned, if you guys want to tell a story that could really resonate with someone else and change someone's life, um feel free to make sure that you guys are checking out guidepost.org.

[43:01]  Well, John, it's been a pleasure. We got to go. Awesome. Thank you guys. really appreciate you. Thanks so much for the time. Absolutely. Heart and Hustle Podcast. We'll catch you guys later.