From Teen Fundraiser to CEO: Michael Hull’s Journey of Transformational Leadership

[0:00]  what caught me off guard probably is you know for msh specifically how big our need is and how hard it is to get to the kids as I said I've been a volunteer a fundraiser for the organization for you know well over 20 years and um I didn't think that that would be a problem and so coming into the organization of all these ideas and thoughts you have I quickly realized that recruit I I say recruiting Because uh for lack of another word in this moment um but like um getting the kids to come to us um so we can grant their wishes these kids with critical illnesses you think that like we just have a list of my long and it's not true always right there's some areas of the country that do but we you know in our area that we serve we have a

[0:48]  lot of underserved areas and urban and rural areas and so to actually get those kids referred to us is really difficult and it's one of our biggest challenges and it's an area that I spend way more time than I would have ever imagined and so as we think of truly serving our mission of granting the wish to every eligible child we have so much more work to do and as Health Systems continue to be you know overworked and underresourced it's only going to get worse because you know we're a program that kind of Falls within that social work area where we need this you know the social workers the child life Specialists the medical team to refer kids to us and as they're really strapped for resources we're a program that they can't get to in a day all right guys welcome back to a brand

[1:48]  new episode of the heart and hustle podcast today we're talking to another amazing leader sting across this digital table with us we've got Michael Hull who is the president and CEO of Make A Wish Michigan now today's conversation is going to be talking about his personal Journey but also what it means to have such a gigantic impact in his community as well Michael welcome to the show man thank you so much for having me I'm excited to be here today you know Michael I think a great way place for us to kind of start here um would be to kind of go down memory lane a little bit I know that when you were a 14-year-old you had an experience that kind of changed the trajectory of your life which actually caused you to start going out and calling banquet halls to be able to raise money what was that story about as we kind of get started here today yes when I was 14 I lost my grandmother to cancer and it was the first experience I

[2:37]  ever had with loss in my life you know 14-year-old young naive didn't really realize how cruel this world can be and these illnesses that were out there and my grandmother was everything in my family and when she lost her battle um we were all lost U didn't know what to do how we moved forward and I happen to see a commercial for the make Wish Foundation that um was a young girls wish um to create this commercial to tell her story and basically from that I called make a wish and I said how can I help I want to do something I want to be able to give back and pay it forward in life and um that totally changed my whole life by making that call um and learning that kids have cancer too because I you know being young i' never realized that you know I didn't think

[3:24]  about it in that way well I know that when you saw that commercial you were impacted you reached out and they told you you know what you're too young to help us raise money so you start saying all right I'm going to start calling around to banquet halls what is that process like as such a young person trying to make such a big impact do you remember like what your mindset was I'm just going to start Dialing for Dollars or what were you kind of at in that position yeah I I thought for sure you know with an incredible organization like make awish as I got to know them and what they were about and when I heard they need money I'm like I can raise money I can do this and you know my family was not a family that you know historically did things like Gallow or dinners or events like that but I I came up with the idea that I want to do a dinner and I thought surely if I called people they would help and I learned the hard way that yes people want to help but they won't just give everything and

[4:11]  so as I started making calls I met a woman who granddaughter received a wish like two weeks prior and she started crying on the phone and she was like Hey I can donate all the food if you can find a place to host this event and I'm also willing to help um I feel like it was fate that you called me today like we wanted a way to give back and so um as hard as it was initially to start out I quickly realized how many good people there are in the world that want to help they want to do something they just have no idea how to you know do it and that was me you know when I called initially I just wanted to volunteer and then all a sudden here I am hosting a fundraiser and trying to raise thousands of dollars so it's pretty uh powerful when you see the kindness of others I mean the kindness of others in itself is it fires up those chemicals in our body right

[4:59]  we're talking about gratitude we're talking about oxytocin we're talking about all these things that are so amazing it's so cool to hear how someone had such a huge impact on your life but you didn't so you weren't 14 years old calling around to these banquet halls right interacting with an amazing woman who just had a granddaughter given a a wish two weeks ago you don't automatically become president and CEO of this organization so how do you kind of talk about your journey what other places did you stop what are the organizations did you work for that kind of brought you to where we're at here today yeah absolutely and it's been a journey I will say um I I had had so much opportunity in life um to follow my heart and my passion and so I think it all started then right at 14 realizing okay I can make a difference in the world and so from that point forward um I got to know this family really well

[5:46]  and that little girl needed a bone marrow transplant and so uh we started fundraising to try to get her a bone marrow transplant and so I started to learn more about fundraising and events and all these things that you can do for a career career and I had the opportunity to go off to college and I kept fundraising I I forced every organization I was in to fundraise for make a wish and just give back or do something powerful um and I found a program that was all about um you know doing things in the community it was basically around uh events and um leadership and so I started working with youth at that time and really started falling in love with making a difference to a child and so a different way right like I'd been in love with makeawish but now all of a sudden I see how I can impact one child and one person and so

[6:34]  um through camps and Leadership activities um so started working in that space a lot which led me to um you know my first big job after college which was working for a university um recruiting students to come to the university um and um I had the privilege of working with some kids that were first generation college students I was myself and so um I was able to help them overcome these hurdles overcome questions that they didn't even know to ask and so um I was able to give back and so I guess the theme for my career has been like how can I get back because I just don't want to work for an organization where you know I'm making someone else money or I'm just adding to uh something that's not powerful at the end of the day I want to know that I made a difference in this world and so um started working for the University as

[7:21]  I said and then um through a series of events um my mom was diagnosed with breast cancer at that time and um she got really sick really quick and unfortunately she lost her battle but um one day uh my manager came in and said hey you're doing incredible work um but I don't know that this is your life's work like you're making an impact here but I see how passionate you are for working for health rated causes and so uh you you have a bright future here I'm not telling you to leave by any means but like I just don't want to limit you and so that statement changed my whole life because I made me think I'm like wow there there is more here and you know I loved what I was doing but if could find a way to do even more in this world and so from there I was able to join the team at the American Cancer Society and then uh I went on to Stu

[8:08]  Children's Research Hospital uh for about eight years where I led um you know fundraising and and work there and then I was able to come full circle and come back to make a wish and truly be a part of the organization that started my entire journey in the fundraising in nonprofit space dude I'm I'm so interested because it seems like there are a Chosen Few who recognize in life and the work that we do that serving others is more important than self- servant so how did you kind of Click into this mindset so early because it sounds like from the very beginning when you're starting your professional career you're also going to leaders and saying hey we need to make a donation to The Make A Wish Foundation and and so it's like I'm just I'm just so confused about how you were so centered in that mindset so early because so many of us at that young age are so selfish how did you

[8:54]  kind of tap into that so early you know that's a really interesting question because I think even to this day I get far more than I give um you feel it like you just leave an experience you have um with a child or a family and you're smiling and you have something inside of you and you feel that you made such a difference and so um I get that question so often people like you know how how and why and tell me about it and selfishly I think well I do such great work and I get the opportunity to do this great work I'm leaving with so much more than I can ever give and so I think it's that mindset it's what can I do to change a life today and and make a profound impact because we all can do it and a lot of people the the biggest

[9:41]  thing I face daily is I can't make a difference in the world I don't have enough time I have a busy family I have a busy schedule like I I could never make a difference like you can work in a nonprofit and that's so not true there's so many opportunities where we can do something small and I've been a part of initiatives um like the long story short but ended up um having an opportunity to donate vrow to a little girl and she started this campaign um All About You Know paying it forward and random acts of kindness and so I keep these cards with me at all times where like you can just do something kind for someone you can see on someone's face sometimes where they just um you know had a bad day or maybe even if you can't see it just buying a drink for the person behind you or holding a door like there's just so much you can do to make a difference in the world that I think sometimes we think we have to go big

[10:28]  like we have to plan you know that big dinner to make a difference no you can do something small and make a huge difference uh you know and make someone smile right and you can change someone's entire life uh by just doing that one act or that one um you know piece of kindness or even that smile right as humans like we feed off each other you you throw a smile at someone when you're walking down the street you don't know what that person's going through you might change their day and so I think it's far less profound than sometimes as humans we make it out to be I mean it's the small things that make the biggest difference in my mind I'm picturing I've seen a clip on social media where there's like a tiny Domino that someone ticks over it ticks over the big one ticks over the then before you know the Domino is 20 feet tall that's being ticked over by that small motion it's so incredible to think about how you have such an impact on people's lives by

[11:16]  doing the small stuff and it's multiplicative as it grows do you ever consider or even contemplate the mindset of scarcity vers abundance because it sounds like you're coming from an abundance mindset where you recognize if I just continue to provide for others other things will come back to me which a lot of people seem to struggle with yeah I I definitely do um you know and I think I think it all goes back to every action we do in life um has a reaction right or it has a it has a piece to it it has that other Domino and so I I would agree with that and I would also say that you know sometimes we just again we get too big in our head we think we have to we have to be up here

[12:03]  to make an impact when we can really make an impact you know down here and many years ago I read this book I think it was like Chicken Soup for the Soul or something there was a short story in it and it was about this young man that was on his way home um to end his life that day and another student actually helped him carry the stuff because he had cleaned out his locker because he didn't want his parents to have to do that and another student helped him clear helped him carry the stuff a student he had never EXP experience or met before and they walked home together and at college graduation he shared um what he had planned that day and what didn't take place because of that that that that piece and so it stuck with me um my entire life and I probably got half of that story wrong but that was the you know essence of the story and it it really is about um you know all those

[12:52]  small moments you know doing a lot of small things and again we all get selfish right I get road rage just like anyone else does um even in the work I do seeing like why do I care about that like let them be crazy like I don't have to respond to that but but but I get it we all do we're humans um but I think if we bring oursel back and think of those small things each day that we can do just to change someone's life just to make a little bit difference like just imagine what the world would be like if we all did two or three small things a day it would be totally different dude I feel like this is the perfect message for where we're at in history today right we just had a huge change in government we have a newent president who was just elected um just went through their process um of being you know um sworn in and when I look around in society today people think that we have to make

[13:39]  gigantic changes right to have a positive impact but if we were all just nicer to each other if we were all intentional in the time that we spent together in the small little interactions you can change your community with small actions um here's a question for you being the president and CEO of such an amazing organization realizing that you're helping children and indiv uals make their Wildest Dreams Come True right there are so many people who unfortunately don't have the opportunity to experience what it's like to have their wish granted so there's a book out there called um the Gap in the gain by an author named Dan Sullivan who talks about often CEOs leaders people who are highly ambitious find themselves in a place called the gap which is the distance between where we are right now and where we want to get to if we you

[14:26]  know think about our goals often their check mark s or Milestones or accomplishments but in the work that you guys do it's a little bit different so how do you stop those goals if you will that you've set out for yourself and impact that you guys want to make from becoming a horizon line you make take one step closer to them they step one step further away from you how do you kind of make sure that you appreciate the impact you guys are having every day by recognizing that what you guys do is so important yeah that that's it's a really important question because sometimes a non profit we really hard on oursel because we know if we do a little bit more it's one more life it's one more kid we can help if we raise another dollar that's one more wish we can grant and so we were really tough on oursel in this industry and

[15:15]  people really struggle to separate themselves even at night right like we can lay in bed thinking about um that child that is not having a wish because of X Y and Z and so it's hard uh you know in fulling transparency it's hard because I know if we raise more money we can grb more wishes and so that goal is always going up I know if we put more res resources behind our Outreach we can reach more kids which means we can grant more wishes and so for us we really have to stop and take in those moments and so I'm really lucky I have an amazing board who understands the value of our staff my team is who makes all of this happen they are Heroes and they work really really hard yes I have the privilege of

[16:02]  leading them but they do the work and they show up every day and so making sure that we are putting resources and opportunities in for our team to live that mission and see it and sometimes we need to pause and sometimes we need we a what we call a mission moment we start all of our meetings with a mission moment we talk about a story of a wish kid or family or or someone who we've had an impact but sometimes we actually need to live one of those moments and so what we did in the past year is um we now have a requirement where everyone on our team has to be a wish granny volunteer uh during work time where they can actually go out and see it because the person that is processing all of our donations is not on the front lines right they don't get to see that every day but we have to ensure they can see why they're showing up every day and why

[16:49]  they're working so hard because without that person we could not operate and it truly takes all of us and so it is definitely a balance of knowing that we have to go um and stress ourselves right we can't become complacent because we have to do more but also not to a point that just completely paralyzes us where we can't do anything because our goals are just so wild and crazy and again I will say for us in particular we have an amazing Board of talented leaders that understand that and they challenge me uh constantly like should we be growing here should we you know um be more transformational in this space does growth make sense or do we you know cast our net more wide um and so it's about surrounding yourself I think with the right people too and the right advisers that understand what we're doing both on our staff side and our board side in a

[17:39]  nonprofit the mission that you guys have is amazing and I love the fact that you're so passionate about the work that you do because what you have even in their conversation today you're casting a vision that talks about the impact that you guys are going to make right and something that we said in our previous conversation together you said keina you know I really truly emphasize the fact that my employees are humans first not workers I think that this is a huge paradigm shift that we see in the next generation of amazing leaders just like you Michael how did you come to that realization that your team members are not just another butt in the seat but a human being who has a connection to the mission that you guys have and why is that so important for you yeah that is the most important thing to me and it's hard I think for people in the workforce to understand that when when we're having genuine conversation around it because there's so many work

[18:27]  environments that are not like that and I give a lot of credit um to a woman um who uh was the person I reported to when I was going through some of my hardest days in life uh as I mentioned earlier my you know mom was sick breast cancer metastasized to the brain and got really sick really quickly and one day she just said you're done you're out of here like we got you we will cover anything that needs to be done you need to be at home you need to be with your mom and she she meant it she put in place resources for me to be there while unfortunately my mom lost her battle and it's something I could never repay her for and so after that experience through talking with her and learning more the why why do you lead like this why do you you know why

[19:15]  did you do that for me you didn't have to do that because it put work on everyone on my team on her um and it was because we're human first and so we always have to support each other and she said my only ask of you is that someday you will have an opportunity to support someone else in some way shape or form and you pay it forward and you give them the same gift that you were able uh to receive because people have done the same thing before you and so it changed my entire mindset and you know while I hope to think my entire team will stay with our organization forever it's not true um because they need to grow they need to develop their life changes and so I want to be their biggest fan you know if they decide that hey have to go on and do something I want them to come to me I want them to tell me so I can help them let me make a

[20:03]  call on your behalf let me call another CE of an organization and say hey I have this amazing person who's interested in working for you um because I think that's what you need to do if someone works hard for you uh and for the organization you're a part of like you have to help them in life and it all goes full circle and I think if we all live like that and everything was in a game um we could do so much more and we could be so much more happy and then we could create workplaces that people people felt comfortable raising their hands saying I'm overwhelmed I need support I'm mentally struggling today or I have this going on in my life and even though I I say all those words right now our workplace is far from perfect right like we want we want to um grow in this area but it's hard for people to trust that you know I'm being genuine that the organization's being genuine when you're

[20:50]  trained and you read things online like don't tell your employer this be guarded here and I understand why those things are out there because many workplaces don't believe in that so it's even more difficult for those of us that want to create that human first approach to do it to knock down those walls and barriers and truly see people for people let's talk about some of the Tactical ways in which you've been able to accomplish this mindset so I talk to a lot of leaders who often say you know Keenan I struggle to connect with my team on an authentic level because I'm the CEO of this organization how do you balance that need to be authentic while still being the leader of the organization where are some of the bridges that you created kind of to connect those two worlds yeah that's an interesting question I think um I think

[21:38]  a few different ways one I think being human um and showing your vulnerability um is key I make mistakes just like everyone and it's okay to say that I also think that there's a time where I have to be Mike the CEO of the organization and I have to maybe work a little differently at some of our events or donors or whatever that might look like but then there's also a time where we're all just arriving where we can all carry a box into the room because no one is above each other at the end of the day because again we're all human and so while our roles might be different in different times we have to shift there's no reason that uh anyone my team is not going to you know clean a bathroom because something got crazy at an event to washing our hands and Shak in the hand of a a CEO of a huge company like we all need to be able to do those

[22:26]  things and so I think that mindset is key um to starting to create that culture but then also you know there are opportunities to do things with action to show your team that I mean this right so like we've created a culture committee um and they're kind of advisers to me saying hey word on the street is this didn't land well you said that last week and it just you didn't nail the mark like and I'm like oh I I I thought I did I thought I meant this and again we're one side of communication right when we say something we feel good about it and so I think also doing small things like that like having people that are telling you hey that was really good that was really bad we need to grow in this area um and again I I could go on and on because I think there's a million

[23:13]  small things to create that culture but it's constant and it's not do this thing one time and your culture changed um it's a lot of actions um and I think that it also can just be really difficult on us uh you know in terms of leaders because before I was like the CEO of an organization I I would think like what does that person do all day like I I don't know what they do and every time I've moved up in leadership I I've thought that about my supervisor like what are you doing you're in meetings oh you're doing this uh you're going to a a donor dinner like that's fun I want to do it and then you realize oh gosh like there were six donor dinners last week like that's a little exhausting and so I think part of it too is communicating like um what everyone does in an organization and again we still struggle with this too because we

[24:00]  have so many different teams and people but we never understand each other unless we talk about it and communicate it and so that's one of the big things we're doing right now is how do we how do we share those things internally so we have a common understanding for each other so again we can see people as people and my word of the year last year I guess it was two is better together because when we see people as people we're better together and so even on our Retreat like we had a staff Retreat last year we didn't actually do work in it if I'm being very honest it was just about being together especially in this hybrid environment like you know the extra exclamation point in an email sometimes doesn't land right because we're not in the office together five days a week so I don't know your emotions and so you know learning each other and learning how we're better together also is really helpful what has been one of the biggest things that has surprised you about the

[24:49]  role of president and CEO of the make A- Wish Foundation here specifically was there anything that caught you off guard anything that you leaned into heavily or anything that you didn't expect what was that kind of process like yeah good question so I think what what caught me off guard probably is um you know for msh specifically how big our need is and how hard it is to get to the kids um I I as I said I've been a volunteer a fundraiser for the organization for you know well over 20 years and um um I didn't think that that would be a problem and so coming into the organization of all these ideas and thoughts you have um I quickly realize

[25:37]  that recruit I I say recruiting Because uh for lack of another word in this moment um but like um getting the kids to come to us um so we can grant their wishes these kids with critical illnesses you think that like we just have a list am my long and it's not true always right there's some areas of the country that do but we you know in our area that we serve we have a lot of underserved areas and urban and rural areas and so to actually get those kids referred to us is really difficult and it's one of our biggest challenges and it's an area that I spend way more time than I would have ever imagined and so as we think of um truly serving our mission of granting the wish to every eligible child we have so much more work to do and as Health Systems continue to be you know overworked and

[26:25]  underresourced it's only going to get worse because you know we're a program that kind of Falls within that social work area where we need this you know the social workers the childlife Specialists the medical team to refer kids to us and as they're really strapped for resources we're a program that they can't get to in a day and so how are we working differently how are we um responding differently you know to these communities and reaching the underserved I mean what are some of the ways in which you're kind of I guess being curious about the future right if you're talking about being able to reach more people are you exploring exploring any type of Technology automation things like that to help you guys expand the vision of your guys' mission absolutely so we're doing a lot of different things and it's interesting because um you know we we've been all over the place with

[27:12]  technology with resources all the way down to very simple things like for example we um recently put up a billboard if you will like a 10 uh it's 10 ft long by 6 feet wide inside the lobby of one of our health systems with a QR code in it that shows what a wish is like because not everyone also understands the wish right like what is the wish experience that were for kids with critical illnesses not terminal illnesses and so uh there's a lot of you know misunderstanding out there and so through this we put a QR code on there and we actually had one medical doctor refer multiple kids uh within the first few days that had never referred to us before which is just wild right like the QR code it was accessible and it was in an area where he saw it and he could

[27:59]  respond and so we get stuck a lot of times in um the high-tech things that we want to do but like it works so well for us and so in addition to that we're also trying to have a place in the community you know for us we serve every Community there's no community in our area we don't serve and so we have to be a part of all those communities all the time not just when we want something or we need something so how do we genely be there as a resource and so uh we're growing our team to be able to be embedded in those communities uh to fully immerse themsel in them to reach and find those kids and we're we're doing alternative things right we're utilizing school systems Athletics who are the other people that know a child might have a critical illness in addition to nursing organizations and hospice organizations and not just the

[28:47]  children's hospitals because there's uh amazing Partners we have we have some of the best children's hospitals in the state that work with us but we have to go at it from every angle and it's not one siiz fits all and so what I challenge the team with is be creative come up with ideas and if we need to Pivot or change and real time do it and if you need a resource where we need funding like I want to hear it um because we can't wait and do everything once a year in our budget cycle we have to move in real time what's working what's not working and so we're always looking for the new Innovative way and sometimes the Innovative way is something super old school you know this is got me jacked up um so I was listening to an amazing conversation with Jeff Bezos where he talked about creating a culture of experimentation within Amazon and he said there's a

[29:35]  stark difference between making decisions as an organization because when you go down this path after making a decision Everything feels incredibly final AKA it's life or death the decision that we make this needs to be successful but the difference in decisions and experiments is if we run experiments in a specific direction we recognize that it could be good or it could be bad but we're willing to learn and I love how you're challenging in the team to be Innovative to be creative to run experiments if you will to help you guys expand your guys' mission and how you guys fulfill on that that's so cool Michael absolutely and it's all about trying things there's no blueprint for what we do you know if you look at the more traditional side of what we do raising money um you know that that yeah there there's some more blueprints out there right there's industry best practices but as you think of this uh

[30:22]  there's really not and so I think it goes back to empowering people and trusting people and creating a culture of having staff come forward with ideas and thoughts because they have the best ideas and um you know for us again um you know nonprofits we have a board a board that advises us and guides us and we have amazing people on our board that see the value in that of testing things ensuring we're building in resources and funds to be able to try some of these things and so um really proud of um you know what we have because it takes everyone having that mindset to be a little uh we call it Scrappy sometimes be a little Scrappy and try things and see what's working and you know the other piece to it is then admitting

[31:09]  what's not working and it's okay we're going to fall sometimes it's okay as long as we admit it and we figure out what we learned uh we can move forward dude when you said Scrappy I naturally thought of the 2004 Pistons team that one a championship playing defense right and literally doing the work every single day to fulfill on that mission I love the the fact that you guys are in Michigan as well and I can use that reference I haven't touched that one in a long time absolutely so Michael here's the question for you what is the future gonna be I'm a big baseball guy right I always think of Babe Ruth when he's standing at the plate and he calls his shot to center field what is your shot over the next I would say year going through 2025 what are you hoping to accomplish and what's got you excited yeah absolutely we we are going to reach kids that we've never been able to reach before um and we are also focused on transformational wishes

[31:58]  so for us you know there can be a transactional wish and there can be a transformational wish and for kids with critical illnesses like hey let's go back a second like no child should ever have a critical illness right like just think about that like kids with cancer and sickle cell and all these illnesses like it's just wild that these kids even have these illnesses and so if they do we have to complement the journey that they're on uh with their health system because hope truly is a medicine um and those of us that have ever had anyone sick in our life we know that hope is a GameChanger right when you have hope you have will you have drive you have strength to keep fighting to go on or create moments uh while you're still here for kids that are really sick and so for us it is all about um digging deep with that child

[32:49]  and family and not just granting a wish but granting that transformational wish so within a wish there's there's usually a why right like why does that child want that so the child wants to go to Disney World why like what do you want to do at Disney World what does it look like what does it feel like what are you going to experience when you get off the plane you know if a child wants a backyard place that same thing tell us about that like what are you going to do back there so we can make sure we get it right and so we're really focused on transformational wishes and how we continue to grow in this space because coming out of the pandemic you know our kids couldn't travel right these are some of the Sickest Kids uh in the world uh sometimes um and so we can't we can't put them on a plane right um and so as we think about doing things um you know differently out of the pandemic now we

[33:36]  have a lot more opportunities to do that and so we're really trying to focus on transformational wishes and we're also trying to uh find those kids that we've not been able to reach before and so our entire strategic plan um really is centered around those two things reaching more kids and then creating as much hope as possible for a child um because that's why we're here it's it's transformational wishes for these kids um no matter where they fall and again not all of our kids are terminal uh that that's something that I I want to stress so bad because so many people think it's just a terminal organization we're not we help kids with critical illnesses and there's 12 different Specialties we help kids in I want to ask a question about accountability right as the president and CEO of this organization you have a tremendous responsibility to continue to push the organization forward right that

[34:25]  means our team members how they execute how they fulfill the mission but if we look at this through the lens of accountability for 2025 what does Michael have to become better at in order to help the organization fulfill on the mission like you expect yeah that's a that's a good question I I think I think I have to model the way um for some of the things that I shared earlier um I like many of my team members you know often care too much um and it's hard to separate the two um you know full transparency uh we've talked about the board uh that I have the privilege of reporting to that that's the feedback they give me too like hey you you can't do it all um because you're going to burn out and um I shake my head because I know that's my personality right like I see that one

[35:12]  more wish I see that one more kid we can reach I know what that can do for that child and family and so this year to achieve those goals I have to set you know a balance for me more than I ever have and and I have to model that for my team um because my team is a like me um we have um you know many different people on the team that bring different expertise but they care a whole lot um we also have a lot of type A people on the team that you know wantan to want want it to be perfect and so we we can only do so much um and we have to keep trying to do more but not to a point where we get overwhelmed and so I think my big thing for the year is really really understanding uh and you know separating a little bit um it's important I think for for all of us um especially those of us in nonprofit when

[36:00]  we have such a strong Mission and we know that uh you know it makes an impact if if we keep going and if we work one more hour or do one more project or meet with one more donor so I really am focused on that this year um I want to model the way uh for my team because it's important I think about this in an analogy of there's a difference between a Sprint and there's a difference between a marathon right when we're playing on a longer time Horizon the objective is not to get there as quick as possible but is to stay in the game as long as possible and man I really hope that you have the ability to kind of establish those boundaries because we need amazing leaders like there like you out there Michael who are helping organizations fulfill such amazing gifts to so many people in need um one of the traditions we have here on the podcast is our previous guest wants to ask you a

[36:47]  blind question okay now this is going to be a little tough for you so the question is if you hopped in a time machine and your current path was not an option in your professional life and you had to change careers what career would you change to and what would you do oh that's a tough one oh I love what I do okay I I can't pick what I do I want to take I want to take an easy answer and just pick a different organization but I know that's not I know that's not the question um huh where would I go I I think hm I think I would go in the experiential marketing space um or maybe events related to that um because

[37:40]  I think experiences connect people with everything um kind of Dipping into what I do a little bit um cheating slightly but I I've had the privilege of going to some conferences and and hearing from some amazing leaders in these big corporate companies and how they connect the consumer with their brand and we try to do that you know even at make a wish like how do we make you understand what a wish is like and so I think if I had to completely change different careers even if I couldn't work in the nonprofit space or work with nonprofit I think I would want to do something in that because you can you're still changing people um and you're connecting them with with something that would make their life better um even if it's just a silly product right even if it's a drink but it helps with this uh I really like

[38:27]  that I really like bridging that Gap and helping people understand um you know things in that space I think Marketing in some aspect I would say you are the the vision Caster right of these amazing experiences man I can't thank you enough for coming on the podcast seriously Michael it's been an amazing time being able to share your heart and hustle with the audience so I know everybody who tuned in today watching and listening is so appreciative for the amazing work that you do brother I can't thank you enough for coming on the show seriously it means a lot thank you for having me I really appreciate all that you do all right guys we'll catch you in the next one that's a wrap