From Theater Stage to Nonprofit Boardroom: Lissa Southerland's Executive Rise

[0:16]  Welcome back to the Heart and Hustle podcast. This next guest, she walked away from the stage and into the boardrooms that weren't built for her, but she made space anyway. Um, Lisa, you had the mic, the spotlight, and the storytelling chops to match, but when did you realize a story really was bigger than you?

[0:32]  Yeah, I feel like even as far back as when I was a little girl, I always knew that I wanted to be in a boardroom of some type. Um, it was just about the hard work and sacrifice it would take to get there. And I think through high school and college, I didn't exactly know exactly where I was going to land, although I am very blessed and thankful that I've landed here. But I always knew that I was going to have a space and a seat at the table. And I think that was an important journey for me to go through, but I'm I'm glad I'm here.

[0:58]  So, I ask you, what did what do you think that theater was able to um help you with in in the space that you're in today?

[1:05]  Yeah. I mean, I credit my theater experience with really who I am. I mean, the fact that I can be as comfortable as I am on the camera, the fact that I'm very extroverted and outgoing, um I've got to practice all of that when I did theater. Um, and so even though I'm not on the stage anymore, I still feel like those things that I learned during that time, I'm still using today.

[1:29]  You know, the biggest tool that I enjoy about um just that world is improv uh improv, right? Improvising because truly as leaders, we have to do that every single day. And I was actually able to take out of high school, I was able to take an improv class. And I'm like, man, I feel like every leader should learn some improv. Like truly, it's part of our dayto-day. We don't realize it enough. I think we just think that it just happens. But no, that's called improvising. I mean, as leaders, I can imagine. Do you remember that one time that you had to really improvise in the space that you're in to just

[2:01]  make something out of nothing?

[2:02]  Yeah. I mean, I feel like I do that every day. I mean, I'm an operations leader, so my world is always pivoting and moving, and if there's one challenge and it's not working the way we thought we would, we have to pivot and do something else. And with over a 100 locations, you can only imagine the amount of different operational challenges that we may have even in a dayto-day. And so I'm always like telling my team like, okay, if this is not working, we may have to improvise in this moment and what does that mean and what does that look like? And I'm always helping them to navigate those challenges. So I definitely credit my theater experience and I loved being on the stage. I feel like when I'm most at home is when I'm on the stage. So, being able to translate those skills into my day-to-day job is actually makes my job sort of fun and I I still enjoy it.

[2:45]  Love it. And and when it comes to burnout, um we all experience it as leaders. What does it look like for you? Like what do you hear in silence that lead you to to service even when things seemed a little bit overwhelming on your end?

[2:58]  Yeah, for sure. I mean, being an executive leader, you you sometimes forget to think about yourself because you're always worried about the people that we serve first and foremost, but then my team. I'm always worried about my team and I'm telling them to do self-care things. I'm always making sure that they take their vacations, that they take their day off, but then when it's comes time for myself, I sometimes forget about that. And so, even over the past couple of years, especially coming out of COVID, I have been able to kind of re-engineer my thinking. Um, I'm also a mom of four. I'm a wife. I'm doing a lot of entrepreneurial things outside of a day-to-day being a chief operating officer. So, it's very easy for me to burn out. Um, four kids alone will will give me burnout, but then you add in all the other things that I do, including my challenging job. And so, I really just think it's important for for all of us as leaders to just understand that you have to take that breath. You won't be the best version of yourself if you don't find time to do that. And so I have learned that sort of the hard way in moments, but now I'm definitely rep prioritizing that within my life just so I keep myself balanced.

[4:00]  Yeah, that's one of the things my wife told me very early on. I I tell as much as my wife drives me crazy and we talked about a little bit, right? The clothes like stop wearing my clothes messing them up. But no, um she said so many great things early on in my life. I was 20some and I will always remember to say how do you help somebody else if you haven't helped yourself? And that's exactly what you mentioned, right? like we we have to kind of figure what that looks like. What is that mindset reset? Um it could be at home, it could be in the garden. Some people like to take some walks, whatever that may look like. But I think you're also in a in a very nice place because you are a black woman leading at the executive level. And I tell you what, I speak to a lot of nonprofit leaders and I always get excited to see a woman of color across from me because it seems not normal, right? What part of that still feels surreal, if it feels surreal, and what part feels overdue? I think the longer I'm a chief operating officer, the more comfortable that I get in being in this role. But I definitely never take for granted um what it took to get me here. And I try to manifest that by turning around behind me and pulling up the next folks that are coming behind me. Um I want them to see themselves in me just like my mentors and those that helped me along the way allowed for me to see myself in them. Um, I think that's vitally important and I I don't take for granted that I'm a person of color at one of the highest levels of an organization. It is not easy to do. Um, and it took a lot of hard work, a lot of sacrifice, a lot of days feeling like am I ever going to get here? Uh, questioning myself, you know, knowing what I wanted to do and having the path set, but just kind of, you know, questioning if this was really going to happen. And I definitely pinch myself, I think, sometimes just because it's it's a dream come true. I mean, this is what I've always wanted to do. I I I my mom was very much um in executive levels in her career and I remember looking at her and being like, "Oh my god, I want to be just like my mom one day." And to actually be here is it is a pinch yourself moment, but in the same time I'm very I'm very comfortable here and I knew that I would always get here. Um so I'm definitely like savoring the moment and just enjoying what I'm doing. I love my job. My job I would do it even if I didn't get paid to do it. And um I'm passionate about it. I love operations. So, I definitely enjoy the role that I'm in and, you know, just succeeding in this space.

[6:16]  What do you enjoy about being the CEO? Like, what excites you most about being in the operation space and really on a day-to-day, you know, basis figuring out what it looks like for the for the company?

[6:26]  Yeah. So, the operations folks, we like to think of ourselves as behind the scenes, right? So, we're doing everything from facilities to IT to HR to training, outreach. All of those areas fall underneath my portfolio. And one of the things that people often sort of take take for granted about operations folks is without us the engine can't run. So we are you know we like to think of ourselves as the heart of the organization and the program folks are the heartbeat of the organization. So um without that the engine doesn't run like you need clean spaces you need to make sure you have Wi-Fi. You need to make sure that you have staff to be able to run all the sites and programs that we run. And so that excites me every day. Um, I think the breadth of what Rising Ground does and the fact that we have so many programs, you, you know, you're going into work and you're never going to be bored. Um, there's always something going on. We're always, you know, inheriting new programs. We're growing. And that feels really good. I think the biggest thing, too, is that I'm giving back every day in my role. And so, you know, most people when they want to give back, they go and volunteer. And I definitely do a lot of that in my free time. But the fact that every day I get to come to work and the work that I'm doing is helping people that need it the most. They need clean spaces. They need, you know, they need to be able to come into our space and use their phone and use our Wi-Fi. Like all of those things that makes my heart happy. So I I could definitely like lay my head down at night and know that I'm giving back to people that that really need it. I literally have been an advocate to to leaders uh or those that are leaders but not in the nonprofit space yet because I'm telling you every person I speak in the nonprofit space, you just said it again. I'll do this even if they didn't pay me. Why? Cuz you're truly happy with what you do, right? It's not about the money. Um I recently been saying we've been we've been chasing paychecks because that's what we've been told. But we should be chasing passion and purpose because the money will follow, right? Um and it's not about the money. I've seen so many people that are in the for-profit, judges, attorneys, um, you know, business owners that go into the for-profit and say exactly what you say. I love what I do. It makes me happy. I wish I would have done this sooner. I'll do it for free. So, I I want to get our young leaders to get into this space. You know, we talk about um school, right? What we did in school, but I also feel like no one told us about nonprofits and about community work and and things like that. So people are not going to college and say I want to be, you know, a nonprofit leader, but how really the reward behind it is so like why are we not talking about it? But I want to talk about what you mentioned. You mentioned a whole bunch of programs, 100 plus programs. Um you're now supporting 30,000 New Yorkers across Right. That's that's a lot across those 100 programs. What's that one um one moment, that one phase that made you stop and say, "Man, this is truly why I do it for

[9:13]  Yeah, man. And I I feel like I get those moments every day. But one that immediately comes to mind is we have a preschool that is for kids that are on the spectrum or they may have special needs in some way. And so um you know these are two, three, four year olds that you know sometimes it's hard for the parents to find adequate schooling for them. Um but they know and they appreciate the value of education, but trying to find a school that can help your child that has certain special needs is not always the easiest thing. And so when you walk in the door of our preschool and you see these kids and they are so amazing and learning and growing every day, it just makes my heart happy. And especially when I walk into the space and I see it's beautiful and it's yellow and it's bright and it's cheerful and they're running around and they're having like a really good time. I think that really makes my heart happy and it makes the work that we are doing behind the scenes in operations even more valuable. When I see when I walk into a space and I see it's cheerful and the yellow is the exact yellow that we wanted it to be so that it could be as cheerful for the kids as we want, that is what makes my heart happy. And I loved what you said about, you know, a lot of people don't know about about nonprofit. they, you know, they kind of fall into it or they don't go necessarily go to school for it. But I would love to see more leaders reaching out and exploring the different facets of nonprofit and the different things that you can you can do and you can make a living and still give back and sort of really feel good about yourself and you could go into the program side or the operation side or you know there's so many areas and just like a for-profit organization that has all the different departments, a nonprofit has those same things. So, if you're an IT person and you love it, you could do it a nonprofit. If you are a facilities person and you love working with your hands, we have we use vendors all the time to do that. And so, I think that's always the misconception is that we're not a business because we're giving back, but we very much are a business. And um we're just in the business of giving back. And I think that's sort of the one of the best things about nonprofit.

[11:13]  I love it. I love this. I love this conversation already. And I want to really talk about you back later at this table because I can only imagine there was times that you almost shrank. Do you remember that moment? Um let's talk about it and then but what made you show up louder instead cuz there's those times where we we shrink where we realize the confidence then starts to pour out like wait a minute I belong at this table. Uh and who what pushed you to pass that fear?

[11:37]  Yeah. So, I can definitely remember before I became a chief operating officer, just in the last role that I was in before I took the leap and ultimately got to rising ground, just wanting so badly to get to this level, knowing that that was my next step and just trying to figure out how to push myself to go after a role like a chief oper operating officer. Like, what does a chief operating officer interview look like? I mean, it was all these questions and sometimes you can almost talk yourself out of something like your biggest blessing is about to come and you're like talking yourself out of it because you think, "Oh my gosh, this is really going to happen."

[12:11]  And so I I just I you know, my mom is very important to me. Like I said, she was an executive leader before me. So I always have conversations with her about like my next step and in making decisions about my career. And she said to me like, "This is your time and you need to step up there. And you know, if you don't get it, you don't get it. But you won't know unless you try. And I'm so glad that I did because not only did I get my dream role, but I also got connected to an organization like Rising Ground, who I had had not heard about before, um, but was doing amazing things in the New York area and beyond. And it was just sort of taking that leap. And I think as leaders, we we sometimes we need to kind of fall, right? And um, know that if it's your moment, it's nothing will pass you by. So if if this is your moment, it's going to come. And if it's not your moment, you're going to learn something from it to get to that moment. And I think the more and more I'm getting sort of seasoned in my career, the more and more I'm realizing just the importance of that.

[13:08]  That's so good. That's uh not playing it safe, right? Cuz it's easy to play safe and just stay comfortable. And I ask the question all the time to leaders, are you happy or are you comfortable? There's a difference in that. And and you you were comfortable, but you weren't happy. And now you're like, I'm so happy. This job that I never knew existed. I mean not the role but just the job the corporation behind it and then the role to get into that space of CEO. I can imagine there's a lot of imposter syndrome even after going to the interview like oh my god am I going to get it? Did you get it right away? How how long was it before you interviewed to getting the spot?

[13:40]  It was a process right and but I did I did get it and that's that's the takeaway is that you know regardless of the process it could be very intricate it could be very complicated. You could have multiple steps multiple levels it doesn't matter like if it's for you it's for you. And I felt like when I took the leap to even apply for the job, I felt comfortable enough that if I was to get it, I was going to be ready for it. And so it was just a matter of navigating through whatever the interview process looked like to ultimately get that offer. And I I I never forget when when I got the call, like I was just like in a way I was like, "Oh my god." But in a way I was like, "Yes." Like I knew this was my moment. And that's I can still remember that. Like,

[14:23]  hey, real quick. If you're enjoying the podcast, we first want to say thank you. And we also just want to give you a little insight of what we're up to at Francis. Some don't even realize that we're working with organizations to help them use AI to create that real human communication experiences. Whether that's actually supporting your your families, those patients, or the entire community, we're actually creating tech that connects. Check it out. Francis.ai. Like you mentioned, you just got to try. You just got to go for it. So many people don't know if they don't show up.

[14:56]  Show up. Even if it didn't go your way, there was something still to learn from it. I mean, it went in your way. But it's that's what it looks like to uh take a leap in uh in faith, right? Um cuz so many people, they want something. And you hear it, I'm pretty sure, Lisa. They want something, but they that's all they they just want it. And it's like, did you put the execution behind it? What does the plan look like? Like there's so many steps to wanting something. You can't just want something. I have to tell my daughter all the time, you got to work for this. What do you mean?

[15:23]  Right. For sure.

[15:25]  You're you're bringing AI into a deeply human space. And I I love it actually because I feel that while AI will never replace a human body, it does allow the human body to do what they love more of. Right? So all the admin work, all the tasks that we just completely hate, me, I hate admin. Could I do it? Yes. But if somebody else wants to do it that is really good at it, I'll let them do it. Like AI. All right. Um what's been your biggest fear? but also your biggest surprise getting into this space of AI and automation things like that.

[15:54]  Yeah. So, especially in nonprofit space where our budgets don't always allow for us to explore things like an AI, right? Like what does that mean? Right? Because our budgets, every piece of our budget goes back to the people that we serve, which is very different than a for-profit organization who can set aside parts of of their budget to to do sort of things around AI. But at the end of the day, AI is here to stay. And so, it was really important for us as a nonprofit to really understand what it is and how it could benefit us and then to figure out a way to in integrate it into our overall budget to be able to do some things with the AI space. And so, we're just getting started. Um, but we've been able to really explore the different ways that we feel like we may want to utilize it within our day-to-day operations at Rising Ground and how it could benefit us both on the operations side and the program side. And so, we're still, I would say, in the exploratory phases of it, but we definitely see the benefits and we will definitely be working toward integrating it in various ways throughout our organization. For sure.

[16:57]  I love that. And you said so many different ways of AI, right? And and happening, wanting to help the inside and the outside of the organization. What would that look like for you? Say that you had a magic wand and you're able to build this AI tool itself. Um where would you like to really make the biggest impact?

[17:12]  Yeah. So, you know, our work in a nonprofit is very challenging and um it's challenging sometimes working with the people that we serve because they come with all of their different traumas and they come with different challenges and they're bringing that into rising ground for us to be able to help them. So to be able to utilize it in different ways to take away, you talked about administrative tasks, um different things that our staff currently do that if we had AI to be able to make it easier for them to maybe write that memo for them or that email so that they don't have to necessarily spend time typing it out um would be definitely ways that we would love to utilize it. I think just thinking about the HR space alone and how we integrate and do different things with our staff. I think our HR department is definitely looking at ways to be more efficient and I think AI could absolutely help us with that. Um, so there's lots of things on the HR side for sure, but I also think on the programmatic side, so that's the folks that are deeply working with our person supported every day. There's lots of different ways that they could be using it as well, whether it's administratively, whether it's working in our with our clinical teams. So any way that we can make our life easier, especially because we're so challenged at times with working with the person supported, I think is where we will see the most benefit. And that is why we've decided as an organization that we are exploring it to see what what what it can offer and what it can do for us.

[18:33]  Do you find it difficult a little bit? I think a lot of organizations are find it difficult because we all want the AI. We want our jobs to be a little easier and better for us, but there's also the funding, you know, cuts and and the fear that's happening. So people was like, I want AI. Some people almost kind of forced into it a little bit, I would say, because they had to cut maybe a body and they're trying to replace that body by technology. Still, someone has to, that's why I say it would never replace a human. A human still has to prompted and tell it what to do in a in a sense. Um, but do you feel that's also affecting your organization and other organizations when it comes to wanting to innovate, but just funding being cut at the wrong time? Yeah, I mean, and not only just now, but that's always a challenge for a nonprofit because, like I said, everything goes back to our person supported. We don't make revenue in the same way that a for-profit organization does. And so, being able to prioritize what what we want to spend our money on to be able to continue to run as an organization is a challenge that every nonprofit goes through irregardless of what administration is happening in the White House right now. And so, I think it's really important for us, like I said, we we definitely see the value in it, though. And so we and it's we don't want to get passed by, right? It's not going away. So it's important for us to kind of roll our sleeves up, get educated on what it can do, figure out the ways that it can help us um and utilize it wherever we can. And I think that's that's what we're trying to do right now.

[19:53]  Yeah. The education piece is everything, right? Just educate yourself on it. A lot of people living in fear, but going back to just never tried it, never even took the step to execute it. So I love that you mentioned that. Do do you recall a leadership failure or feedback moment that today probably still stings a little bit when you think about it but truly shaped you.

[20:12]  Yeah, I mean I've failed many a time.

[20:15]  Yes, talk about it.

[20:16]  Definitely for sure. Um I can think about times in my career I I always would come from a place of yes. Um you know so someone would ask me to do a project and I would say yes. Um you know do you want to be on this committee? Yes. um because I was so hungry for wanting to gain as much experience as I could because gaining that experience would help me navigate and move up the ladder of of what I consider success. And so that was always really important to me. And then one time I had a supervisor to say and it stung a little bit when she said it. She was basically like, you can't always come from a place of yes because sometimes you will then fill your tank with so many projects and so many initiatives and so many things going on that you won't be able to prioritize or do them as well as you want to because you have so much going on. And I was like, but no, but I love doing all this stuff and I like being busy and I like having all these initiatives around me and working on different projects. And she's like, I know. and she's like, "You're amazing at what you do, but you don't want to fall in that rut where you have so much going on that you're not doing things as well as you want to." And I I remember being like, "Okay, all right. I guess I I guess I get the feedback and I definitely went home and was like, "Oh my god, I can't believe it." But when I thought back on it, she's absolutely right. It's all about prioritization, being able to delegate tasks, and not feeling the overwhelming like weight on your shoulders to always feel like you have to say yes to everything. It's okay to say no, and it doesn't belittle you as a person or it doesn't make you seem like because I I guess I fear that people would think like I'm not as good as I want to be or or if I can't handle all these projects at one time that that makes me less than or less of a leader. And it actually makes you a better leader to be able to delegate and be able to say no. um you have enough I have enough projects going on right now. I don't need to add another one. And that's something that I think our leaders really when you when you master that then that's where real success comes because you're able to do projects really really well instead of overwhelming yourself with so many.

[22:14]  I love that you said that because that is that was very hard and I probably learned it like early 30s where I was just like you. I'll say yes to everybody, right? everybody and anybody, friends, family, people that didn't even deserve the yes, they'll say yes. And uh you do you do see the overwhelming and the anxiety it causes, the stress. Um you know, people don't realize that when you're overwhelmed like that actually causes so many more problems. It's just being overwhelmed, you know, and that's what causes riffs in relationships, ris riffs in in even the work space. Um so I love that you you went there because that is so true. But as you mentioned, failures are always there for us to learn as well. those moments when someone um calls us out. It's not we're so quick to go into the negative realm of things, but we have to really think like, oh, they want me to be better, right? That's a good leader just kind of pouring into you. Say, hey, you don't got to say yes if you don't it doesn't align with you, right? If you don't have the time, it's okay to say that. So, I love that somebody told you that very early on in your career. And I'm pretty sure you're telling other people now that you're you're seeing them saying yes to everything. It's like, I see a little you, you know, in who I used to be. So, u I love that. If someone's listening right now but wants to make a difference, what is truly um what can they start? And I always say that go find an organization that aligns with what it is that you love to do because there is those organizations but is there anything else for those that feel like you know I don't know where to start. What are the words of wisdom for them?

[23:39]  Yeah. So I always when people ask me this question I always say Google what you love and then just put nonprofit organization behind that topic. So, if it's dance, put dance nonprofit organization. If it's tennis, put tennis nonprofit organization. And that's going to pull up organizations that are giving back in an area that you're passionate about. And I feel like that's just where to start. You know, it doesn't have to be so cookie cutter or it doesn't necessarily have to be even nonprofits that you've heard about. There are tons of nonprofits that are smaller that are doing amazing work and you may not hear about them on the news or in the media. It may not be as one that's as as prominent or as big, but a lot of times the not the smaller nonprofits are really delving in there and they're doing amazing work and they don't always you don't always hear about them because they may not be out there as much as the larger ones are. But yeah, that's my biggest advice and and I think you know nonprofits are always looking for people to help to volunteer. You know, we never have enough help. Um, so just googling it in that way and and pulling up, you know, different organizations that align with your passion with what you're passionate about. Even if you're something like an entrepreneur, right? There's entrepreneurial nonprofits out there. There's so many different avenues to go. But I just encourage people to give back. It it helps your heart. It helps your soul. Um, you get to do something that you're passionate about, but then also know that you're helping others, and that's sort of the biggest reward.

[25:03]  I love that none of that mentioned you got to donate money because it is true. just donate your time, whether it's five hours a week, whether it's one hour a week, it truly does make a difference because it allows that person to just have one hour of your time. And believe me, they will utilize the one hour of your time. Um, so I love that you went there and never said nothing about money because people think, how do I give back and how do I help nonprofits? They automatically go into the money aspect of things. But if you could just donate. Sometimes you're in a job right now, maybe you're nine to five and you can't get out, but you have so much talents uh and you want to, you know, enhance them or you want to put them to the test. Believe me, nonprofits will be more than happy to give you the opportunity to say, "Okay, well, what can you do? Show us, right?" Because it truly does help. It's what make these organizations last so long. Um, thank you. I love that you talked about that. When things get a little hard, when things get a little, we talked about stress. We talked about overwhelming. What keeps you grounded in a space? Because I can imagine the work that you do is not easy, right? People think that, oh, you work for a nonprofit, it must be easy. But no, we have to also go home with some of these stories. We have to go home with these problems. What keeps you grounded in a space like this?

[26:07]  Yeah. So, you're right. Um, and there are definitely hard stories and challenging stories that I hear about every day in the work that I do in my day-to-day job. So, I definitely I definitely lean on my family a great deal. We are a small but mighty family and we we teach our children to lean on each other when the times get hard. So, I can definitely come home and say, "Oh my gosh, you never will guess what happened at work." I also lean into my self-care things. Recently, I took up Mrs. Pageantry, which is something that I did actually in my high school and college days, and after COVID, I decided to jump back into that. And that whole journey has made my heart very happy. It was a hobby that I thought I would never go back to, and I kind of jumped into it. So, I I do that and that makes me happy and kind of releases stress and I lean on my friends in that space. Um, and you know, just definitely hanging out with my with my friends. And, um, I do Zumba. Um, I'm big Zumba girl, so I love the fitness aspect of my life and just making sure that that stays balanced. So, I pull from all those different things when whenever I need to. Um because the work is hard and anyone in nonprofit will tell you that the days are very challenging, but when you are able to go home and kind of pull into whatever those little things that make you happy, um it definitely helps.

[27:25]  Well, you said pageantry. You're getting back into actually doing pageant shows or helping the other ones get into pageent shows.

[27:30]  No, I'm actually doing them myself.

[27:32]  Let's go. I love it. I love that we can bring that we can always tap into that inner youth, right? I think maybe I've told you last time um during COVID I end up doing a stage play. I never thought after high school that I'd be back on the stage and acting, right? Um but I did it and would I do it again? Yeah. If if they call me, a friend says, "Hey, I need you. I'm doing it." Not that I'm auditioning for these things, but it just feels so good. It does make you feel like, "Wow, I still got it." Sometimes we don't realize the talents we have until we actually do it. Not only that, but the people you're going to pour into now just being at the you're a leader, you know? So yeah, you're pageantry, but you're also leading others. You're getting to really be a showcase to your daughters, other young black women just like you, women just in general to say, "Step up. Be confident in yourself."

[28:18]  So I love it. And it helps, right? I can only imagine all that helps. What you're doing helps in the leadership role because you got to be confident to be in these pageants.

[28:26]  For sure. And I I mean, I did them in my mist days. I never I underestimated the journey that it was going to take me through in my life right now as a Ms. I thought it was going to be, oh, I'll just get on the stage and wear a pretty dress and it'll be fun. But it's actually been such a journey. Um, getting back into it, confidence, all the things that I thought I was like done with, it actually has brought all that back up and that's been the best part of the entire process. Um, and I'm very much enjoying it. And my family is very much um, supportive of me and they love seeing me on the stage again, I guess, in that way. I guess I didn't leave the stage all the way. So, um, yeah, it's fun.

[29:03]  I love it. I can't wait till my daughter gets to see those moments of dad on the stage. I still got little ones. I got a almost a two and almost five. I can imagine when she sees that that's also gonna just spark the next, you know, big thing for her. Um cuz it's not about us, right? We talked about it. Our kids is watching. They're not listening to us as much, but they watching everything that we doing. Um but I love it. We got to wrap this up. Talk to us. Where can we find the organization? What is the website? Are you guys on social media for those that want to just find out more about the organization?

[29:32]  Absolutely. So yes, our website is www.risingground.org. And we are on social media. You can find us on Facebook. You just can search Rising Ground. We come right up. And on Instagram, it's rising groundny. So please um if you go on social media, please like and follow because we're definitely building our social media presence. So I have to make sure I shout that out. And if you go on to our website, you'll see all the comprehensive breath of of services that we provide. And if you ever find yourself in need or or in any challenging situation, please go to our website and you will absolutely find the information that you need to to get the services that you need. And we welcome you.

[30:10]  Lisa, you have been tremendous. I got to put you in the hot seat really quick before we end it though. Um, this is the blind question. What about leadership do you still hold tightly now that would have shocked your 22-year-old self?

[30:24]  That's a great question. I think what comes to mind is don't sweat the small stuff. And irregardless of where you are in your career in your 20s, you're going to get there. I think sometimes when you're in your 20s, you you're trying to move so quick to think that you want to get to the end goal, but you have to go through the different phases of the journey to finally get to whatever your what you consider success in your career. Whether that's being a CEO, whether that's being a facilities manager, or whether that's being working at the front in McDonald's, whatever the success is, I think you have to remember to go through that journey. And that's one of the things that I definitely learned from my 20s to where I am right now. And I'm very thankful for that journey. That journey has molded and shaped who I am as a person and who I am as a leader. So for all my 20somes, don't try to go past the journey and just don't sweat the small stuff because you're going to get there.

[31:16]  I love you say that. I'm going to share a quick story. So, I I've been in the leadership position. I was a general manager already at 19 years old. And I go back and think to myself, man, if I can go back and do that, and I was there for seven, eight years, and I did great, by the way. But I think about who I am now, just all the wisdom, all the failure that allowed me to be a better version of myself. And here thinking, I'm I'm doing it, you know. But you are right. We're still these young adults that are growing. Um, we have to be the young adults. A lot of times I think we we 18 19 and we already want to be grown but no there's so much even at 30 years old. I feel like I'm just getting started. So I love that you mentioned that. It's like just be patient. You know what I'm saying? Just let be a sponge. Soak it all in. Find your good leaders. There's good leaders and bad leaders. Learn from both.

[32:01]  Right. There's things to learn. It's like I always say I didn't have a dad, but I learned from him, right? I learned what it what it looks like to show up.

[32:08]  You know, all I got to do is show up and I'm winning.

[32:10]  So I love it. I love it. Lisa, you have been truly phenomenal. Congratulations getting back into pageantry. I can't wait to follow you on on LinkedIn. If you guys haven't followed Lisa on LinkedIn, make sure you guys connect with her as well. I'm also on social media just to see what that journey looks like. Cool. Kudos to you guys. This has been the Heart and Hustle Podcast. We thank you. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and comment. We'll catch you guys in the next episode. Latest.