How to Modernize Any Organization Without Losing Its Roots

[0:00]  you know although I'm not in recovery I support it 100% And you know they often told me that and I said you're right and my mother who often said put on your big girl pants let's go put on your big girl pants and she just said it to me again yesterday sometimes you just got to put on your big girl pants I'm like you're right Mom and so these are the mantras right that stick in your head and you have to have them sometimes to get through those days that are often very difficult all right guys welcome back to another episode of the heart and hustle podcast today is going to be an incredibly

[0:46]  special episode because we have a social worker turned CEO Chang maker Karen Carpenter joins the show today Karen welcome to the show thank you very much great to be here you know one time you were at a conference and you saw a group of people lobbying for a specific Health Care type of service and you said that's it that's it what was that I was um I think I was a a director at a at a facility for people with development of disabilities and I attended a conference on Human Service lobbying and I said wow I get it I all thought lobbyists were guns and oil but you can actually Lobby for Human Services that's fantastic that's it that's what I want to do why was that something that was so inspiring to you well because as you said I am am a social worker um you know I say a social worker by trade um uh and I care

[1:34]  about what the world looks like for the people who live in it and you know how can I go about effectuating change to make it better for the people to live in it um and uh from all walks of life for any issues diseases Etc um you've got to learn how the bill becomes a law you got to learn how to uh influence you know policy uh and make policy so that was the only way I knew how to do it you've had quite the experience in making policy an influencing policy as well now you're the CEO of Vander Hayden you guys have been in business for over 190 years in the community but let's listen to a little bit of the origin story about Karen so how did we become the CEO what was the journey like to get here and what other things have you done in your career well that's a kind of long I mean I feel like I'm getting older I don't feel it but I mean I I people tell me you know they they I've I've been around

[2:22]  for a while but um you know I think it's you know again started a direct practice social worker you know wanted to to make changes um I you know my mother still has an article that I wrote to the local uh animal shelter you know a you know an opinion piece when I was 10 that said I didn't think they were being cared for very well and we need to do something about it so what are we going to do about it so um you know uh fast forward now uh some 35 years um I think um you know throughout the years of direct practice social work in a lot of different areas and government and the private sector and the hospital system um you know it really has which is our motto here at vanderheiden do we change lives to save lives um and any individual any child that comes in here now um really doesn't see that future as bright as they you know we want them to

[3:10]  so you know clearly um you know I feel like uh I've been using that for a long time uh that phrase because it's so meaningful to what if you're coming into an ER and you need to have a problem you know um you know if you have you know alcoholism problem or you have a domestic abuse problem that was one of my best training to be an social worker you know because you have to do it quick right I'm not really a good um long-term therapist I think you and I talked I have the Eureka Effect this is so no this is what you need to do well you can't always do that in long-term therapy but you can in the middle of an ER because it's emergent situations or it's crisis and I found you know that was something I was comfortable with and and probably had a little bit better expertise in and patience because it's limited you know there was one part of your career that I think it's really

[3:58]  important the experience that we had I know that there was one time when your dad introduced you as hey this is my daughter Karen she's been hired and fired by five different Governors what was that about oh let's see it was his I believe it was 85th birthday um uh not too long ago but he's had a couple since thank god um and he just uh he found it comical I I know he's a sense of Pride my dad is very tough on me and you know he we represent pretty much opposite political points of view that we talk about every day he's in Arizona and I'm in New York so he goes to golf still golfs you know what I mean during the week and calls me at 6:00 a.m. while I'm going to work at 9:00 a.m. and so that was about um you know that I believe in you know serving and uh what happens in government you know when administrations change you get fired so

[4:47]  um so I think it was a pride in a little ribbing of his eldest daughter I was going to say the burden of being the eldest daughter and the eldest child is really tough sometimes abely no question so Karen here's a question for me you know out of all the things that we could be doing right with our time our energy why are we dedicating so much of your most valuable resource your time into serving the community in the way that you are because there's so many opportunities that you could have taken advantage of and past you could have gone down yeah and and you know I think it's you know you got to have you know what's in your heart what's in your soul I mean somebody um and how do you want to live I've learned a long time ago and I think you know people said to me you know you work 40 and we know it's more than 40 hours a week for most people 40 50 60 hours a week like what you do right you know you've got One Life to Live um and uh I think that that's you

[5:34]  know really the motivation and you have to find everybody's got to find what's their personal motivation I love waking up every day to say you know what can I do to help out today you know some of my you know my colleagues and my friends call me the connector right oh no I know you go talk to him over here I don't make it happen I don't get you the job I don't solve your problem but I hopefully can get you to the right people because we've earned it you know over the years because I hope to do I hope I do that for other people so you know I think it's you really got to um have what's your mission in life right it's not just about the job it's what's your mission and somebody did an article many years ago about me she's about her her family her work in her community and thankfully her it's all everybody's in her web H her spiderweb that way um and I thought that was a good portrayal because you know that's the priorities for me too

[6:21]  you know I think I told you I hung up on a governor one time when my um son was getting off his first day of kindergarten you know I wasn't going to miss that you know I know it was important what he had to talk to me but but Governor this is first right I got to do this now you don't do that all the time but you know um for that it was critical because I was never going to experience that again so um you've got to have that's my mission statement I guess and that reporter frankly helped me to get it when he wrote it you know she's about her family work in her community that's it that's exactly what I am isn't it so important to establish that hierarchy especially when we're the leader of such a a large organization with such Heritage that we do have to establish those boundaries for ourselves or these roles and responsibilities can really take everything from us right right it's internal and external right you know you got to feel it you can't have a mission statement that's not

[7:07]  doesn't work for you right um but uh you know you've got to have something that really um you know feels right um and that you can live it every day and do it authentically I know people use that word a lot I rarely do I I use my you got to look in the mirror every day right and that's how you know I have to live whether it's decisions you know whether it's supporting somebody or saying no where you have to do sometimes times um you know I've got to look in the mirror and I've got to feel good about that and uh you know I've got two parents 85 and uh 85 my mother yesterday my father 87 um and uh I watch them and I know life is beautiful but it's also comes to a close at some point right and so I want to make sure that you know and I as I certainly do right now I don't have any regrets in my life or there's certain things I wish I would have done better right you know in life personally

[7:55]  and professionally but I don't I don't live with my and regrets and I tell my kids the same thing how do you come to that sense of self-awareness right with living with no regrets with all the things that you've accomplished all the different spaces you've been in it seems like I'm guessing that you've had a lot of draws on your time that can pull you away from those special moments in life so how do you kind of come to that no regrets type of Lifestyle well because I you know I mean I um you know somebody will say like uh that you know you know my um my uh other uh colleagues and friends that you know they'll say like oh where's we don't do where's Waldo we do where's Karen because I go I go right and I like it you know and my father says you're getting older you have to slow down I'm like Dad why I mean there's is there something going on that I don't know about because I'm fine now don't think I don't fall asleep sometimes when the

[8:42]  movie goes on and you know my my uh my two adult children say mom why do you want to watch this movie 10 minutes in as soon as you sit down there's a sign that goes across the bottom that says mom time to go to sleep now you know because it's like a puppy right I go go go and then when you sit you kind of collapse s um that's okay with me right that's okay um and I enjoyed and you know I enjoyed people I enjoyed being with folks you know I enjoy doing fun things I enjoy making a difference so if that's a good day for me and I appreciate you know having the opportunity to do that in so many different aspects of my life one of the best things that I have the opportunity to do on this podcast is dive a little bit deeper into the the origin story of how we became the great leaders who sit across from me so one of the questions I love asking my guest is if you were to go back in time let's call it 15 years

[9:31]  and sit across the table from a younger version of Karen and say hey this is the advice that I have for you as you navigate this next chapter or season of your career and life what would you say to that younger version of you you know what believe it or not and and anybody who knows me for a long time would think it would be very odd that I would say that but I do live by it now and and I was going through actually 15 you'd hit a sweet spot there very difficult I had to do the math in my head but um you know very difficult time you know um then in my personal life and even professional life I was uh you know frankly uh being I was whichever one Governor I was on I think the fourth governor I was you know was the holiday time I was you know they're not going to keep me on for change in administration um and everybody had expected them to

[10:19]  and you know because it was a democratic Administration I am a Democrat um and I was going in the middle of a divorce you know it was the holidays I'm thinking oh my God you know how am I going going to show the people still had staff right still had you know to send a message to people you know that were you know were were part of my organization and I really just had to say one day at a time one day at a time you know I learned that from all our folks in recovery that you know although I'm not in recovery I support it 100% And you know they often told me that and I said you're right and my mother who often said put on your big girl pants let's go put on your big girl pants and she just said it to me again yesterday sometimes you just got to put on your big Cur pants I'm like you're right Mom and so these are the mantras right that stick in your head and you

[11:06]  have to have them sometimes to get through those days that are often very difficult I had the fortune yesterday actually doing one of our rare in-person podcast episodes with the CEO of an organization called the grant to gift Autism Center CEO named Brian heger and he talked about some of the more challenging times that he's come through in his life he had to really focus on chunking down and that's exactly what we're talking about here the one day at a time how do I get from to there by making it as tactical as possible to kind of tackle these challenges as well so I really appr that's really the only way because it can get overwhelming you know and somebody will say oh like you know um uh you know next month we're gonna I'm like uh next month is is about two years in in my future right so I'm doing this week and you know I often find like Sundays is kind of a sweet spot for me you know when I can just look at the calendar what do we look

[11:54]  like I'm out three nights okay I got to try to do something in one night you know um and uh you know I've got to make sure I see this person all right let's just plan it out so I'm kind of a a chunker by the day and by the week I actually had a friend who actually just sent me a text message before we recorded this episode and said hey what are your Halloween plans and I said honestly haven't even thought that far in the future I'm just focused on right now that's at least two years yeah exactly two years yeah so here's the question for you when we take the Helm of an organization that's been around for 190 years we might be coming across some resistance by saying we've done things a certain way for a long time here how have you been able to implement change because I realize over the last 10 years you guys have gone from 20 million to about 32 million in total revenue and budget how have you been able to

[12:41]  accomplish that substantial change in the time that you've been able at the helm well you know again because um you know coming in when I did to vanderhyden um you know it was really in a crisis you know they were uh you know I think I shared with you the previously but um you know the the state of New York was all over them you know as far as um you know uh program deficiencies money was very very difficult you know they didn't know how they were going to make the next payroll um and so when when folks are in a crisis sometimes it's not easy to lead but if you can give a sincere you know and committed Direction and be confident in that direction that helps move it along that's not to say I didn't hear like oh no M you know we're not doing that or what's she doing what is she doing right um you know uh you know can't I don't know if she can be our

[13:29]  savior maybe she will be I don't know you know because people are fear organizations go through trauma right um just like individuals go through trauma so uh that was the situation at vanderhyden and um you know I had to you know have the game plan you know I usually operate especially when I first go in somewhere a 100 day game plan you know kind of assess where are we what are we doing out and about meet everybody um and kind of get their thoughts and ideas and then kind of come up with okay here are the concentration and you know that's really it you know I had to make sure with the you know again good team members you know get the finances in order you can't pay people nobody's going to work for you can't take care of kids if you don't pay people so um got those in order you know uh we had a lot of property okay that's the only asset we had I'm not a realtor

[14:18]  I don't know anything about it but we're going to sell this property because I've got to pay off some of this debt so you kind of go it's very simple you go back to the basics where's the money like you do in your own home right where's the money coming from how much do I get to spend all right if I need if I'm spending more then it's I got to do more I either have to get another job or I have to get other assets I've got to trade in some money I've got to get a loan something to help me through so that's exactly refinancing all those things you know um um that you have to do to increase your asset base and then you know put it to the people you know which obviously for most organization is nonprofits it's about the staff how can I get them you know the right in the right places and pay them you know so they're solid and stick and we can continue the mission on so many many good years a lot of people working very

[15:05]  hard but um you know I think we've uh finally hit those sweet spots never to get comfortable but you know um just where we we can continue to grow and and change lives to save lives that's that's the hope I had an amazing CEO of uh on the show previously and he said you know great leaders look at challenges as opportunities and it sounds like you've had that mindset as you've kind of come into the organization and other think that that's you know a little bit about my background in it like Crisis work ER work right you know if something was going so well you know and we're doing fine now but there's always in the environment that we're in politically and financially you know um and certainly after covid um you always it's always changing and if it wasn't and if I didn't have 700 kids that had 700 different personalities and another 500 staff frankly I wouldn't be here because

[15:54]  they they're kind of what make me you know Thrive like what's going on what can we do better how can we help you right um and there's uh there're as unique as the you know the person is so um there's always something different and changing every day sometimes great sometimes not so great so we're you know we're we're always working on that and how we can you know what does the future look like you know for those individuals as well as our team members as well as the organization as a whole one of the biggest challenges that I've become aware of since I've started hosting this podcast as I sit across the table from so many CEOs of nonprofits is the topic of nonprofit CEO burnout and I've been able to kind of sum it up in this way you know often when we are serving our community and trying to combat such macro issues that we're dealing with

[16:41]  diagnosis level or rates every single year continue to rise more and more children being diagnosed with autism it's often that when we get our goals right they're a Finish Line a checkpoint or a destination but when we get it wrong our goals feel like a horizon we take one step closer to them and it moves one step further away how have you been able to stay grounded in the fact of the accomplishments and the achievements that you've had in the organization and making sure that those goals that you guys have set as a mission don't turn into that Horizon yeah I think um you know two things I would say is that um uh there's all changes always constant right and you have to have a vision you know a forest for the trees thinking you know um and I do you know I can see us where um you know where we could be five years 10 years from now what what what what do we

[17:29]  need based on the people we serve you know um 190 years ago as we spoke about a group of women got together and said you know too many kids you know without food shelter clothing that was the origination of the Troy orphan Asylum at the time that has you know morphed into vandery now it's what do they do when they leave here they're safe here they're secure they're eating but how are they going to support themselves in what job what career where are they going to live after 21 if you don't have some kind of a family support somebody to pay that first security deposit somebody to help you move uh when you go to the ER at 3:00 in the morning who are you calling to pick you up where are you spending the holidays that's the job that we have to be part of you know planting those seeds and making sure that they're blooming and they're stable because life's too hard for anybody now

[18:18]  take that I don't have a a functioning mother father Aunt grandmother you know um what am I going to do at you know at at 1821 and I'm all on own what's car insurance you know do I have to pay taxes you know all those things so that's part of the I think the challenge now and there's um you know there's always challenges because life is so precious and it's so um it can be so CH so hard to navigate and um if you have any you know mental health you know uh uh disorder or uh issue um if you have you know um you know Aspergers that adds on it on top of how do I pay the rent how do I get the car is there a bus that goes down to this you know um

[19:06]  to this stop you know where I can get an interview so um you know I think that's it you always have to keep your eye on the prize which is that's why some of the the the phrases I use are so very simple changing lives to save lives that's what we're doing changing lives to save lives because if we don't plant those seeds right you know um you can't see and and ensure that end result happen happens um and uh you know we can't we don't save every individual you know what I mean we know that that's not the case but are we doing everything we can to plant the seeds um and give them the tools that they need to to fulfill a great life this is a a big topic that we've heard across the landscape of healthcare over the last years I'm going to use this word whole person Health right we've heard this as a buzzword which talks about we need to be able to

[19:53]  address the multiple complexities that come to supporting an individual how do you do that with so much on the line with such a legacy of an organization there's so much complexity in pulling the Community Resources together it has to kind of feel daunting sometimes yeah oh sure it does you know what I mean because everybody's needs are different right everybody you know not everybody wants to uh you know uh go to uh um Starbucks right not everybody wants so I'm being factious about it but you've got to look at the individual what they want you know um and do you want to go to school or you don't want to go to school you know what I mean do do you want to have a part-time job and then live with roommates right you know um can you cook right or can you survive on something because not everybody can go you know what I mean out to uh um you know get Subway and Chick-fil-A or all

[20:40]  the other things that they do that um um is too expensive uh so you know you have to really just you know kind of go it's basic Social Work tenant go where your client is and then move up from that sometimes it's moving an inch sometimes it's 3 feet but you got to keep going at it and frankly that that is you know kind of the social work 101 as we said the Tet is social work you know go where your client is try to make wherever they're at a little bit better just a little bit better and then it grows and people get accustomed to it right we can then I can do that now I have a young girl um there was an interview somebody did and I she she we have a thrift store that we open and every time I walk in she was like miss Karen I am not doing that register I will not do that register I'm like oh yeah y yeah Y come on we're gonna do the register now it's

[21:29]  not about the register it's about doing something and trying it with support so she can do something else it's conquering a fear um you know a little fear right just doing the buttons and then feeling good about yourself because many of the individuals that have all these different varying concerns and disabilities um just don't feel good about themselves so the little things you know what I mean the little things mean a lot and that's what we try to do celebrate the little positive you know childhood experiences we always talk about adverse adverse childhood experiences we're trying to concentrate more on positive childhood experiences like you know we've got a special needs school but we're going to have a prom I'm not sure always how I'm going to pay for it but we're going to have a prom right because that's a write a passage for somebody in high school right graduation is beautiful here because

[22:17]  it's a right of passage they may not graduate from anywhere again but you're going to remember the one time you wore the cap and gown and you cross the stage right so all those things are they build you know for in a normal which I don't know anybody who really has that a normal childhood setting that's what you do right um if all things are you know are going well it when when you have like a a family that hasn't uh has been somewhat dysfunctional or you have your own issues you know you've got to find th to the ways to achieve those in a different way you know in 2022 the Surgeon General came onto a national broadcast and said the biggest threat to the American society is not another viral pandemic but an epidemic of isolation and loneliness absolutely agree when you were talking there I was thinking about the word Community you

[23:04]  know there's a phrase that we've all heard at one point in time it takes a village to raise a child and sometimes it's the community of the organizations who are standing up and providing those normal experiences if you will for people to be able to feel supported by maybe the some of the gaps that they don't have in their personal life as well right well one of the things like in in housing that I'm uh you know I'm concentrating now as far as my Force for the trees um is where do they go from here where do individ ual that 18 or 21 if they don't have those supports right um or even if they do and it's difficult time where do they go and my idea we I mean our idea is to do a young adult Assisted Living no different than all the seniors are in assisted living now and what's so critical about that they have Walmart Wednesday you know and I'm not trying to plug Walmart but I'm just saying Walmart Wednesday or we're going

[23:52]  to take a bus trip to see the leaves you know what I mean in um up north right it's a community connection I have my own space right um I have my own studio apartment or I have my living room and I'm going to watch Jeopardy and you're going to watch you know what I mean uh something else um but you know we're going to come together maybe have a meal it's special it's Spanish night it's you know Italian night you know something that you can make choices but there's somebody there so those apartment that's what I want to do for the younger generation you know 18 to 25 we're losing folks we're losing folks many adult children still live at home okay I I personally that's where you need to live to connect but that's not always the healthiest thing but we know that you know with the video games and all those things it's very easy with Facebook and all those things and the phone just to stay here that is is not

[24:41]  helping us at all and Co brought it in Co brought frankly some good things like you know um T you know um what we're doing here tele Health tele medicine tation Health tele medicine and you know just video zooms all that that's great to a point I mean I don't even like if folks that even on my own in my own uh World here they'll uh you know say um oh I'll just you know I'll I'll go on the computer I'm like you're upstairs walk down come down here pick up the phone right we don't I just can't and because and mostly because it's my style you know I enjoy doing this you know to have a connection but I'm up and walking around I like seeing people face to face eyes you know what I mean how can I help you or I care about you I went to a a funeral today of um um of uh you know a friend's mother and you know I being

[25:31]  present was so important I could see it in their faces right that just me being present you know it because I could if I couldn't I couldn't right but being present just to you know share an experience that is so critical for my close friend right in the loss of her mother the same is true for going you know what I mean to um you know seeing their first movie you know maybe sitting down in a first restaurant you know I often do that with the individuals we serve because it's great just to do that one-on-one you know for me um but it's also an experience for them you know uh to do something that maybe they've never done before I hope that we are seeing the pendulum swing back in the opposite direction you know one of the conversations that I often have on the on the podcast is about distraction which is something that previous

[26:18]  generations have never really dealt with but here are some shocking statistics the average 18-year-old today spends about 9 hours out of their day on their device meaning we're often not getting 9 hours of sleep so the digital world is becoming more real than even our dream world is but here's the issue if we extrapolate out that 9 hours per day for the rest of someone's life that's 24 years on their device and I think that we're seeing some macro societal issues when it comes to distraction being alone together AKA being in a restaurant everybody's on their own device and still not feeling that sense of connection so that presence element is more important than ever right and I think it's everywhere right I mean I to you know uh you know again I have adult children we have you know Aunts Uncles everybody coming in you know the the meal isn't every night but when we have

[27:06]  it they are not there you know it has to be emergency upon emergency right me included right because I work 247 you know that's CEOs do that you know you have the flexibility but somebody calls you 2 o'clock in the morning you pick up the phone because you're the end you know you're it's the end is you um and uh but you know there's certain times you just can't right um because it's a it it it's a way of and even in this funeral when I was at the wake people are in line and they're on their phone now you're not you know at a funeral like it's church right you know you don't go on that in my you know in my life my mother educated me like are you kidding me you know what I mean you sit but it's a way to talk to people oh how did you know you know you don't know the people that that are in line with the Wake oh how did you know you know Lorraine you know oh I'm friends with

[27:54]  her daughter's sister oh okay you know what I mean and that's oh I'm friend with her other sister that's what makes a community right um and that's so important because you know and and I also it's a way to celebrate that individual just like you're trying to celebrate your time together um you know even during covid and my my kids you know they're 25 and 24 I you know don't shouldn't call them kids but I do you know the idea was dinner together and then we played a game you know what I mean because it was too much for everybody zooming you know because they were doing their classes in college and you know I wasn't because people in and service were all at work nobody was cleaning a closet you know during co uh because we have people were taking care of but um it it's you know you have to push that and I even say even with my friends when we get going you know like Hey phone's down you know and I'm an

[28:42]  offender don't think I'm Pious I'm not I'm an offender but you know you have to be reminded because it's just you know it's it's just as much as it's freeing on many things because I can be 247 and still be at my you know daughter's tennis match right so that's good you know but on the other hand it's also just this like you said this isolation Factor um and uh you know what's on the Facebook is more important and we say in my family the Facebook you know because that's how my mother says it um uh what's more important than um on that versus like hey how you doing today you know how was school you know what I mean oh your sister got in a car accident I'm sorry do they need anything you know I mean just normal conversation so that's one of my my um you know I think missions as well you know um just to

[29:31]  reduce it and you know now you can track it like you know my my even my kids you they see that they're tracking they're like Mom oh my God I was on I was just think about that I use the same thing now I got better sta statistics on your 24 years but you know you don't sleep nine hours and so you were on like what 7.2 oh my God you know so that's I think it's up to us to make those I mean people have to do that right it's like a campaign we have to make it a campaign pain there's intentionality that's there though one of my previous guests talked about a really tragic story there's an individual a young man he lived in San Francisco and he was going through a really dark time and unfortunately he went to the Golden Gate Bridge and jumped off and ended up dying right and the police officers recovered this young man's body found his ID went back to his apartment found a note and his note said

[30:19]  today is the day in which I'm no longer going to be here but one thing will stop me from doing what I'm about to do I'm going to walk the 3 miles to the Golden Gate Bridge and if if a single person looks at me smiles and says how are you doing today not going to do it so there's an intentionality that we need to carry in the world because those small moments Karen mean so much to so many people and you'll find you know I will talk to everyone and I I mean I I just you know I'm not a a creep I hope you know what I mean but if if you're walking down and you know on a street and you're it's the only person you know I always say hello how are you you know what I mean and just keep going they don't have to say anything but that's on me right that's on me you know and it's even you know um you know you think oh my God what could this person be or they're scared now I also have to stop

[31:07]  it sometimes when people will like if when I've been on the subway in different places you know I have social worker on my forehead so somebody will tell me their whole life story you know in three minutes and sometimes you got to back off from that oh okay all right you know well it's important I do use the phone for that on occasion because I'll do it but you can't go through the whole you know I mean there's balance as we know but I think it's I think it's really a campaign it's a campaign that we have to do and I that is I'm never going to forget that story never going to forget that story because that reminds me that it's okay because my my um you know folks will say like why do you talk to everybody mom not everybody wants to talk and I'm like now I'm going to tell them that story because sometimes they do you know I want to talk a little bit about a campaign here and I'm going to use this in a little bit of a different term when it comes to inspiring the Next Generation right of great advocates for

[31:56]  our community people are going to show who want to serve their Community we have more challenges and I'll use the word distractions right that can take us towards Instagram and Tik Tok and all these other different types of careers so how are you casting a vision to inspire the next generation of great contributors to our community to come work for an amazing organization like your guyses well you know I certainly do and I just gave a presentation the other day about like what's your mission right get in the car your mission you know having the best car your mission you know what I mean or you know going out every night you know what I mean to the player what is that your mission and you know if it is okay but I think it's sad you know I mean I think it's sad my what I do with with people like what are you doing to give back what are you doing I'm not saying recreate don't be you don't have to be the CEO of this

[32:44]  organization you know but what is the small thing you're doing oh you're going to help the dogs on Saturday perfect perfect because you're outside yourself right you're just outside yourself when the dog comes up you don't have the phone now yeah they do take pictures I shouldn't say that everybody takes cute pictures but you know what I mean you have something else that you're doing you know are you just taking your grandmother out on Sunday afternoon for dinner or a ride great great that's the time right because you're never going to get that time back again so I think that that you just have to just remind people and I and I really think this next generation is more um I think they're more open to things you know what I mean than than past generations to you know lesbian bisexual gay they don't care they don't even do the labels they were like oh okay it's Sue you know no she's Tom you know okay you know um and I

[33:34]  think that's wonderful much more open to things but it's now the next step is the connection because they got pulled back even you know a little bit more with the phones and the co during covid and and before but um pulled back so I think you just have to I keep saying like what's your mission what makes you feel good every day you know what I mean if your job doesn't make you feel good that's okay because sometimes you got to work to make money but what else are you going to do what are you doing at at at 7:30 you know what I mean did you volunteer did you you know did you go um just give the neighbor cookies cuz you like to bake you know something and that's what we do with the individuals here even at Vander Heiden what is the one charity everybody has a charity goal I don't name what the charity is I don't care if you're cleaning up the um Cemetery for garbage I don't care if you're just talking to the kid you don't like because that to some are charity

[34:23]  right because they don't want to do it I don't have time I don't like them but are you doing that that's great you know something because I think that is what makes better citizens you know better citizens and better people and I think um and I hope I hope that gives people a purpose so they don't jump off that bridge that's how we build momentum towards change right it's all those small incremental moments that end up becoming the tidal wave that has the change that we want in our society around us yeah but I think like you said purpose purpose is a is a key Mission I say it's a mission because that's social work you know I mean but it's my life mission um and and again it all goes together personally and professionally but um I think it is is the purpose what you do as a job maybe your purpose that's great that's great but what are the other ones you know what I mean what

[35:10]  are the other purposes and you know um you know some people like to work with animals some like to work with the elderly some like to work with development and disabled some people don't like any of it and they really just want to go and you know take a walk but um and and they may want to give to that Park system and and the money is okay okay too you can be purposeful with money that's fine but you know what what is it in your gut and that takes some introspection that some people don't always have time with but I even for the younger generation I say like okay what's your favorite Tik Tok and why why though why because he's cooking something or because he has clothes you know what I mean or you like the makeup don't care I don't care but what's your you know what's in your gut you know because that's usually what causes the issues later on right because you don't

[35:57]  have have purpose you don't have Mission um you may have all the money people say this all the time money you know my grandfather used to say you know I have he had a million dollar a day because he had good health if you have your health you have a million dollars a day so he I'd say oh you know when I try to ask him oh do you have a lot of money I have a million dollars a day I said you do really and as I got older you know I understood like you know what I mean he doesn't have a million dollars a day you know um but he did and his head and that was his attitude and that purpose goes with attitude right you got what's your attitude you know do you wake up oh my God it's another day or do you wake up with you know what I mean okay what am I going to do today not you know solve world's greatest problem of hunger and poverty but what am I going to do to make the world a little bit better today there's an element of accountability in

[36:44]  there which I think is really important to emphasize as well yeah that's true that's true to yourself you know what I mean to yourself others you know probably they can see it but what is it to yourself right because that's um you know even in in therapy we learn like if you have some depression you know or you're just feeling lonely or feel bad what doing something for someone else makes all the difference in the world you know it doesn't cure you know what I mean obviously significant depression but it helps go move move forward right there just the small steps sometimes the small steps are mean mean all the world all these experiences that you've acquired throughout your career have been just small Strokes on the tapestry that is you as an amazing leader I want to talk a little bit about your

[37:30]  leadership style and how you become such an effective leader now one of the things that I recognize with a lot of different leaders at different points in their career is often we have a really tough time relinquishing responsibility to other people to execute on our vision now there's an interesting uh principle called Paro principle which is 8020 20% of your work produces 80% of the results I'm reading a really interesting book right now by a guy named Dan Martell who talks about the role of a CEO is basically to get out of the way and give trust into others so they can execute on your vision if they're 80% as good as you are at executing on what you say and the vision you cast that's 100% a awesome how have you been able to kind of lean into your ability to trust your team members to execute on the vision that you outlay well we we've come at and I I'm not sure if I heard this or

[38:17]  maybe I made it up I don't know but we're doing a little bit more now on um you know because I feel it you know um on micro succession not succession planning but Micro OB session how do you grow within your current job by taking more responsibilities for example I've got somebody you know that you know I'm not going anywhere right now but you know you have to pay attention to you know who could uh be it and I have one individual that that said like yeah I'd never do your job I want to do the finances I don't want to ever do that and I said oh interesting you know what I mean okay slowly but surely right you know he said well you know I shouldn't be so so hard and fast about that maybe you know and I said but you don't have to be me you have to have the balance of somebody with me like I have the balance with somebody like you right and a CEO and a and a and a um uh c c Co role you

[39:07]  know um and you slowly you know what I was try to do and you hope you're always modeling right I mean I do try to do that you know model um but then I always say you the best thing is well what do you think what do you think we should do you know and sometimes I you know because they they aren't me and they aren't the leader you know I have to say well no we're not going to go in that direction but here's why not just no right no no I mean if you think even as a as a parent as an aunt whatever nobody wants to be told no nobody gets that but if you say Hey listen can't do that and here's why right it makes you know we we we teach at the same time we're saying no I I mean I've fired people that have hugged me you know what I mean because I've said we're going in a different direction you know this isn't the a right place for you I will do anything I can to help you but this isn't going to

[39:55]  work we've tried right um but you know we have to go in a different direction different direction and let's talk about where that might be but it's not going to be here right because we we've tried that so you know tears because they know it's not the right place right it's not um doesn't always go that way I don't want to make it sound like that it's not always so easy but it's really just doing you know trying to and again we're kind of using the term micr succession grow within your current job just so you see maybe what you might want to do next right um uh instead of just no I can never do that that cuz I'm not like them right you know what I mean oh I can never do that because I'm not I can't go out and meet people like you do Karen I can't go out and do that you're right maybe you can't but maybe you'd have a vice president of marketing that can do that but you still you know it's really about showing up and DF confidence so

[40:44]  you know what I mean that's the balance so I mean it was just interesting conversation that it's like this is like maybe you know maybe it's a thought but the micr succession says let me just grow within my job to see if I might like you know and I I do a lot you know on the on the talent management side where we pick groups of people that folks have recommended and just come to a board meeting see see what you think what's your thought but you're not there as an observer you're there as a participant right you know so if I ask like hey does anybody know um uh you know where we can get this uh uh particular vendor you know like everybody's part of the conversation so you have to help people model and have them kind of it's all about growth right right you know what I mean and and some people and I'm good with that I'm going to be this accountant I like being an

[41:33]  accountant I do this from 8:30 to 4:30 and then I do this other stuff that's what I want okay um but what's the one thing that you think you can do for yourself to be happier in that 8:30 to 4:30 you know I mean there's a hundred different questions but that's the just asking the questions as half of it you know just to and then to trust and support the confidence you know um and and build that confidence you know but also know that you know even when you say no and you explain why you can still build somebody's confidence but Hey listen good thought but here's what you here's what why I'm going to do it this way here's why you know and think about that because it's always about learning you know we all got here because we learned I'm still learning if I stop learning then I any CEO should go we're

[42:22]  talking about cultivating a healthy sense of curiosity here that's what I hear you talking about yeah wanting to learn wanting to know like thinking um oh well maybe that's a good idea you know I went to a conference now I have no business really going to a cyber security conference because the couple presenters I didn't even know some of the terms they used but a couple spoke to me right but but I have to know enough about I've got directors of it right and that's great but I've got to know a little bit more about this so it was good because you always have to CEOs have to know what questions to ask they don't always have to solve up but they do have to know what questions to ask you know to get them in the right direction so you know the CE or the the chief uh information officer is do going the right path I don't know I'll have to know every detail about the cloud you know what I mean and the and the

[43:09]  performance you know of this particular beautiful box but um you know we do need to know the right question so I'm glad I went I learned a great deal you know and um it was interesting because other CEOs were there because we're like okay we don't know what we don't know so we got to learn what we don't know to at least secure the you know um secure the Border as they say secure the Border what got us here is not going to get us there right right and there's just so neat different things and you know I came back and I said Hey listen I know we're covered to my CIO I know we're covered on this but what are we doing with this actually you know what I mean and it was just more information for me because you have to you know you're the realtor you're the security agent you're the um you know set up the party planner you know um your I I had to sell wood from some of our trees sometimes you know

[43:56]  what I mean to to get money that's that's all good but you got to be your many roles as a CEO but and you have to just feel comfortable you know just being Parts you don't have to excel in it I don't want to do the spreadsheet right if I had to do that you know what I mean I I would not like coming to work every day but I got a good person that does the spreadsheet I just need to know what I need to know on that so we're going we're still you know kind of going in the right direction obviously you know Karen one of the traditions we have here on the podcast is having our previous guest ask you a blind question so one of the questions that came from a previous guest was what makes you a distinct leader and sets you apart from others you know it's funny that I I mean I think I'm gonna say humor I think I'm gonna say humor right now because um um nicely I got an award last week and um

[44:45]  uh as we were doing the panel um you know I was saying some things and interjecting you know um some vulnerability but it humor on myself and for others you know um and I I hope that's it because I'll be like you know even to our kids or our staff like you guys got to be kidding me right what you know what I mean and so um you know I think I said something somebody was talking at the at this event about the um you know the impostor syndrome and do you ever feel especially because they only talk to women about that but um do you ever feel you're an impostor and they went on and and I said uh no we call it the holy moments right you know that's what we do laugh laugh laugh but that is who I am right and um and you know frankly I hope you know it's it's about the humor and it's about that you know that I like people you know I

[45:33]  like talking to them you know I get my best ideas from the the people we serve no matter any CEO does from the people you serve and the people who are on your team right you ask them what they think and um you know I'm open I hope I'm open about it but but the humor makes uh it's just fun you know it makes it fun Karen you know we've been everybody who's tuning in and listening today obviously has been inspired and encouraged to be a better leader a better business person and a better impactor like you are how can we find more information about the amazing work that you guys are doing at your organization how can we support the mission spread the word oh that's great that's great thank you very much well um uh we lovely website uh vanderhyden dorg v n d r he yde n.org because nobody seems to spell it I had a long I had a hard time at the very beginning um and

[46:20]  uh you know just to to get on there learn about us you know there's so many ways um you know that anybody can support but even even if you don't live in our area or our community you know I would look at um the organizations in your community and just show up to one of their volunteer days you know just show up right you order or when somebody's saying we're collecting bottles for um you know the Alzheimer's Walk collect bottles drop them off see if that's your you know passion your purpose you know outside work right your work can be your passion but you know I I'm part of other organizations too that I care about you know my son has cystic fibrosis raise money for that because obviously that's important you know um uh I walked for a friend who had Alzheimer's you know because that's those are things are important there's other things I don't do right because

[47:07]  I'm not as connected to them and and people should just find that and I hope they do in their community so yes come on vanderheiden dorg you want to send me money that's great too you know what I mean for the kids Recreation fund but most importantly you know get involved you know in your community just with one thing just to start and that's a beautiful place for us to put a wrap on it today Karen once again you are the definition of heart and hustle thank you for joining the show thank you very much great w see you thanks for having me I appreciate it